HawkMan Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 I don't like paying monthly fees for MMORPG's because many of them fail to deliver new content for that fee. For example World of Warcraft which is undeniably the huge hitter in the MMO space. It's ?8.99 a month. For that ?8.99 what new features do I get? Mostly just re-workings of existing functions in the game. Buffing / Nerfing, changes to the UI. Sometimes they might add a new Dungeon. But 90% of the 'New Content' comes in an expansion which you have to pay for. That ?8.99 per month could buy me an entirely new game each month. And if I saved that ?8.99 I could get a really really good game every 2 months. A single Dungeon or a few new quests that last at most an hour for ?8.99 vs an entirely new game that I'll get 10-18 Hours out of? And in the case of online games (like TF2 which is often at ?8.99 in price) over 400 Hours of game play. I'm not adverse to paying a monthly subscription but only if they are going to continually release really great stuff, simply paying to keep being able to play a game I've already paid for? I'm not in to that. well some MMO's get you a lot for your money thogh, EQ2 for example by the time the first WoW expansion had released, EQ2 had added far more content to the game through regular free updates than what was in the first WoW expansion. WoW is easier though, and easy sells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilo Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Lets see. People would rather spend $60 on a game that lasts maybe 20 hours max every month. Yet, they hate the thought of paying $15 a month on a game they'd easily last for several hundred hours. I don't see the logic behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasethebase Reporter Posted July 27, 2010 Reporter Share Posted July 27, 2010 No thanks, I'd rather pay for a game and own it in its entirety. Think, I've owned Team Fortress 2 for nearly 3 years now (October '07) and played it all the time. That would equal 36 months of payment for online, put that at ?10 pm and you get ?360 down the drain for what should be free. Luckily the game is free to play online. That ?360 could be used for a lot more things, such as going out with friends, holidays, buying new gadgety gear etc. This is one of the reasons why I would never play WoW, alongside the ridiculously complicated interface (But that's me, don't be hatin' :p). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneyardBrew Member Posted July 27, 2010 Member Share Posted July 27, 2010 I feel that it's unacceptable to charge me full price for a game only to require me to pay for it monthly just to continue playing it. I just can't afford something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 My only gripe about pay to play is how you feel obligated to play it them. You feel like if you do not play a certain amount of time, then you have wasted your money. It's like cable, just bad economics to pay for it and not watch it :p So then I'm stuck in that eternal struggle of game or life, game or life, i already paid for this game so I should play it, or I need to go outside and do something.... lol, and that's why I quit MMO's, because the steal away the real adventures you could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo2008jedi Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 The only game I did pay monthly for was Eve-Online, and I played that for 3 years before I stopped. But I didn't play any other game (sad I know :p ) Up until I got a PS3 that is, then I needed ?'s for games. Genereally I don't mind paying a fee if its worth it, same goes for DLC too. So far I have found nothing worth paying monthly or any DLC worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scokem Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 My argument against monthly fees is that if I buy a game, I expect to be able to pick it up and play it whenever I want to, be that a week, month or even years later. As others above me have already stated, if you pay a monthly fee, you pretty much feel obligated to play it then because you want to get your money's worth - in my case though, I don't have the time to dedicate to a single game like that which is why I have never bought a game that requires a monthly sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-KJ Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 [MMORPG] Because in the end, it's all virtual. Your time will be of waste and priorities skewed if you can't moderate yourself. And about the monthly pay that accumulates over the year(s), the company will still be the true owner of your character. F that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treemonster Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 i look at it this way: a movie costs about $20+ for me to see just by myself. double that if i take a date. that last 1.5-3 hours, i have to sit in a crowded room with people talking during the movie or laughing obnoxiously at non jokes with decent image quality but poor fps(google theatre action blur), that i can't pause at any time and go for a pee break or have a smoke etc etc etc. or i can spend $40-$300 for a night at the club with some friends, let's say i get there early and we stay till last call so six hours. which is definitely fun and worth it to me btw. or i can spend $50 up front for a month of play during which i decide over the course of daily 1-3 hour play sessions if i want to play past the first month and pay $10-$15 for each month after until i beat the game or get bored, doing this all with both friends and making new friends along the way. which do you think is the better entertainment per dollar value here? that being said, most post wow p2p mmo's have reduced value, and the trend is sprialing downward. mmo's launch in more and more incomplete states as time goes on, with less and less play value, less replay value, and more reestrictions on my favourite mmo actiivities and due to the OMG MUST HAVE HARD FACTIONS mentality dev's have these days i am further restricted to both who i can socialize with in game and who i can PK/pvp against. big example here: STO. playing 1-3 hours a night most nights i beat the game in 6 weeks. did i get my moneys worth for a CE box through steam and a month sub after? definitely, but overall the scope and quality felt like i was playing a fairly fun but overall B quality online mode of single player game. or to contrast: i played freelancer sp years ago beat the story mission, then spent countless hours, weeks month playing the non fee online mp portion with untold numbers of interesting community made mos until ms took down the world servers, and i can still play in online mode alone thanks to a mod without paying a fee again to do so with limited time. as well looking at f2p games, sure you get a few dozen hours of totally free play time, but there comes a point where the grind gets a degree or there are certain mechanics built into the game or if you want to be competitive in pve or pvp and be part of a decent guild where the cash shop becomes necessary and there are players who will spend thousands of dollars a month just to be viable and get all teh goodies. the cheapest most worthwhile f2p game i ever played, sword of the new world, it cost hundreds of dollars to start unlocking the premium OP kung fu characters, and after level 80 or so it's absolutely necessary to afk grind 24/7 with cash shop exp buffs and other items to get anywhere. that being said there have been some f2p games that were great fun without ever grinding or spending a dime, but only up to a certain point. i've only played a few games that lasted years without a sub, and most had certain hidden fees to pay for the great updates they recieved. the first was hl1 and it's mods. that platform was my main game for years until hl2 and css came out. but valve makes money from companies that rent dedicated servers in licensing fees. the other is sc1 and diablo 2, and i'm not sure how blizz makes money to pay for bnet support of those games, but definitely great value as long as you never lose you cd cases for them(or otherwise since you can now tie your cdkey permenantly to a bnet account and as such never lose them). ofc there are certain expectations of mmo's vs one time paid for games. for aone time cost game i only expect community driven content updates in the forms of mods and such and enough patches to make the play experience balanced and trouble free. most dev companies don't quite meet the bar set by valve and blizz here. where as if i'm paying a monthly fee i expect a constant stream of content in addition to teh at least 100-300 hours of upfront single playthrough content at launch. i expect to be entertained at least 1-3 hours every single day without running out of things to do, even if some of those things are completely player driven, until i choose to cancel my sub. as well as a free to use for subscribers forum with 24/7 moderation(giving the mods the weekend off is bad idea in this industry), in game support, a relatively bot and rmt spam free environment, and other "free" services (such as wow armoury) the onyl two mmo's i have ever played for more than 3 months consecutively were wow and lineage 2. played lineage 2 for 2 years and the free expansions added huge amounts of content and was by far the most epic gaming experience in every way(including hours spend mindlessly grinding :() i have ever known. well worth the $15 a month per account( and there were periods when i was paying for two). and wow, which i played for 1.5 years total but not consecutive months, which although had it's pros and cons, was still definitely worth the price of each box from vanilla to tbc(wotlk sucked and was subpar for a paid expack) and the 15$ a month. now one thing i wish p2p mmo's would do is allow you to use up the first "free" 30 days without entering your cc details or using a game card. if you do the latter you've spent upfront an exta $30 for a game you can't be sure if you'll play that long(and most times you won't) while if you do the former you've given an unknown company your cc details on the promise they won't charge you for a million months play time sometime down the road like what happened with warhammer fairly recently. mmo's definitely aren't for everyone, and certainly do tend to be hit or miss, but when they're a hit they are awesome. 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+Fulcrum Subscriber¹ Posted July 27, 2010 Subscriber¹ Share Posted July 27, 2010 i look at it this way: a movie costs about $20+ for me to see just by myself. double that if i take a date. that last 1.5-3 hours, i have to sit in a crowded room with people talking during the movie or laughing obnoxiously at non jokes with decent image quality but poor fps(google theatre action blur), that i can't pause at any time and go for a pee break or have a smoke etc etc etc. Aren't you over-rationalizing yourself: cost per hour of entertainment. Because you're paying a monthly fee, would you not go out with friends to the club or would you not take a date to a movie? Obviously not. I have been playing an MMO on&off for about the last 6-7yrs with 4-years actual subscription time; in the meantime I've played other games as well, when I want to take a break, I simply do not pay and when I want to return, everything is there as it was. One of the reasons I've often returned is because of the many expansions it has received over the years. Sometimes I think I would've completely forgotten about it if it weren't for them keeping me on a mailing list when said expansions were coming up. I don't even know if I'm getting "my money's worth", I wouldn't know how to evaluate such an expression for my personal entertainment without objectivity (read: peer perception). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 At least when you go watch a movie, you can talk about it with other people. Kinda hard to go around asking people, " Did you every slay so and so on thsi game?", and much easier to talk about," Damn, the A-Team was a ****en amazing movie, despite the horrible PR and Trailers that were put out for it." ( that last statement is 100% true :p , movie was amazing! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw2001 Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 At least when you go watch a movie, you can talk about it with other people. Kinda hard to go around asking people, " Did you every slay so and so on thsi game?", and much easier to talk about," Damn, the A-Team was a ****en amazing movie, despite the horrible PR and Trailers that were put out for it." ( that last statement is 100% true :p , movie was amazing! ) ...Uhm, I could probably find someone to talk to about WoW just about anywhere in town, Probably more than have seen some new movie to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acnpt Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 I want to play more than one game at a time, therefore it would cost me more each month. Also I tend to buy a game full price, then eBay/trade it once I'm bored....I won't be able to do this with subs. Back in the day, me and my friends chose Guild Wars over WoW because of this :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Why the hate? Seriously? I don't want to rack up a ton of costs in monthly gameplay. Think about all the games you buy. Let's say each one has a monthly fee. Are you honestly going to keep buying all those games? It'd cost so much money. I don't want to pay $10 a month to play a game when I already pay $60 for the game. Sorry, not worth it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Its bad enough they want you to pay for dlc, which ive never bought a single piece of dlc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead.cell Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 I don't really mind the monthly fees. What bothers me is the initial cost of the damn game, and the general lack of trials at each release. They don't want you to see if you may not like it in the beginning, they want you to buy off the hype. After that hype has fallen off, then you bet your ass that they'll want you to at least give it a try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCordRm Posted July 27, 2010 Author Share Posted July 27, 2010 At least when you go watch a movie, you can talk about it with other people. Kinda hard to go around asking people, " Did you every slay so and so on thsi game?", and much easier to talk about," Damn, the A-Team was a ****en amazing movie, despite the horrible PR and Trailers that were put out for it." ( that last statement is 100% true :p , movie was amazing! ) This is the first argument I have to call B.S. on. I can't tell you how many times I've walked in on folks talking about Gaming: whether it's WoW or some other game. And THEN, hooking up in game to go adventure together, even if that means one of them moves to another server. Gaming is becoming more of a social event now than it ever has before. Back when I played the Ultima or Might&Magic games, I only remember having a couple of friends to talk to about it. Now, just about everyone is playing something. ________ Anyhow, LOT'S of points of view here. So far, great topic. I'd like to key in on a couple of things, though. 1. Think of all the OTHER games you could be buying. Why is this relevant? If I buy a single-cost game like Half Life, there's no guarantee I'll put 200 hours into it. So assuming I get through it in a week, for example, now I have to spend another $50-$60 bucks for a new game. I just spent $100-$200 that month when I could have been playing a game I enjoyed for the initial $50-$60 bucks. ********** (IMPORTANT NOTE THAT FOLKS CONVENIENTLY IGNORE) Let's keep in mind here that monthly-fee games give you the first month free. If you don't like the game, it's no different than buying a single-cost game and not liking it either. Therefore, if I DO like it, I spend $15 for the next month to play as long as I like that month instead of dishing out yet another $60 for something new... which I may or may not like. *********** 2. It steals from my real-life experiences. Sure, if you have any. I went to the Grand Canyon... you know what? It was a freain hole in the ground. That trip was SO not worth it to me. And yea, I got to drink with some buddies... but I would have had as much fun doing that at home and not wasting the money on the trip. I also don't like the club scene. Basically, I hate strangers as a standard thing. People just annoy me. When I want to see friends, I go visit them. I cannot, however, do that after a late shift at work- which leads me to watching TV, reading a book, or gaming. And gaming actually relaxes and entertains me. TV sucks and reading books just puts me to sleep now-days. 3. It kills productivity. Yea, well reading books, watching TV and playing football aren't exactly curing cancer, either. TV sucks. Reading makes me sleepy. And I'm too injured to play football thanks to Uncle Sam. So while I COULD be mowing my grass instead of letting some teenager earn his keep, I'm perfectly content to spend my recreation time enjoying my game. 4. Getting hit twice. This goes back to deciding after the first month if you actually enjoy the game or not. I pay $50 bucks, and play as long as I like in that month. I like it, great. I continue playing the next month for $15. If I'm putting that many hours into the game, I'm NOT missing out buying other games. I have games in my STEAM account that I still haven't even gotten to because I've been having fun in something else. SO, is my $15 a month game the waste, or that one-time $50 game that's not getting played at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpGreen Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Because in most cases you pay first to acquire the game, then again every to play it. That to me is a rip off. Plus its not guaranteed that I'll even still be playing the same game regularly after a month or 2 months. For me to still be playing it that long after getting it, it either has to be damn good, or have a multiplayer element that I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCordRm Posted July 27, 2010 Author Share Posted July 27, 2010 I decided to write a simple walk-through: Month 1. You buy your new Crysis game for $60. I buy my Everquest game for $60. Month 2. Your game says 60 hours of game time. Assuming you beat it, you need another game. $60 I still like my game, so $15 this month for me. After 2 months, you've spent $120 whereas I've only spend $75. Month 3. Again assuming you only buy 1 game a month, you buy your next game. $60. Still going on my MMO, so $15 for me. You've spent $180 to my $90. That's all assuming we both liked our game. Let's assume we both hate our first game. Month 1. You spent $60 on Crysis and it sucks. I spend $60 on Everquest and it sucks. We're both out $60. It's an equal match. If we both like our next game, refer to the like example above. I still win out with my "hiway robbery" monthly fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crompee Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 that being said, most post wow p2p mmo's have reduced value, and the trend is sprialing downward. mmo's launch in more and more incomplete states as time goes on, with less and less play value, less replay value, and more reestrictions on my favourite mmo actiivities and due to the OMG MUST HAVE HARD FACTIONS mentality dev's have these days i am further restricted to both who i can socialize with in game and who i can PK/pvp against. The problem isnt that MMO's are now launching incomplete, they've basically always been doing that. The problem is that we now have MMO's which are complete, If you're bringing out a new MMO.. the reality is that the bulk of your new players will be coming from WoW or ex-WoW players. If a player has been playing a game like WoW and has decided to try out your new MMO, they're going to expect it to be at least WoW quality (they probably expect it to be better) which of course, no-one can match as WoW has had 5+ years of pure development. As MMO's become more and more complex with better graphics and different options, launches are going to get worse, as they have to cut corners somewhere to get the game out. WoW is unbeatable at the moment as no Develop is willing to sink in the money and time upfront thats required to create a MMO to rival WoW. Instead, they're sinking in just enough money and time to get a working MMO with the first few levels complete and little/no endgame and then if it proves popular, they will put the money in. Unfortunatly, this means that when players try out the game at launch, they're disappointed and quit. I honestly dont see how anyone can rival Blizzard on the MMO scene in the future. They have WoW setup nicely and they're more than willing to put the cash upfront for the next-gen MMO as they're highly confident that it will be a success. As far as monthly fee's go, i dont mind them as long as its a game where i can get my moneys worth out of it. I played WoW for 2 years, loved those 2 years and didnt buy any other games. Playing WoW saved me alot of cash, i actually got out of debt by playing WoW which i would of struggled otherwise. Its hard to stay in most nights when you're forced to due to debt but its extremly easy when you're basically choosing to as you've found something enjoyable to do which passes the time and provides you with at least some social interaction. Infact, even my holiday was pretty cheap that year, went to blizzcon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 I would personally never ever buy a game that would require me to pay an extra monthly fee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 The problem is that, these days, most MMO's really aren't worth the subscription and the ones that are usually limit a player's ability to experience them before purchase (EVE, FFIX, etc.). This is why I feel most pay 2 play games need to either stop being pay to play and just make us pay for expansions (as LotRO will be doing soon) or provide expansions for free (EVE Online). Either we have to pay for the additional content or the service we pay for should provide it. I personally prefer the former because that means I only pay for what I want where a subscription has me tied to actually make the money I have spent worth spending by playing the game and usually makes free trials far more limited. While I do undestand that most MMO's need some form of income from the game, that is where things like the C-Store come in. Additional features, aesthetic items, etc. can be purchased to add to your experience (but most should be achievable in-game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSteyrAug Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 I like having extra money to spend on other things, aside from games. Whether it be gaming accessories like a new mouse to play said game(s) or say I want to take a nice lady out to dinner. Paying monthly lowers my budget on said accessories/dinner. Not only does it lower my budget, it forces to me, and I'm sure a few of you are like me, to try and get as much out of my money as possible. What does this mean? It means I'm going to become anti-social for the next few years as I focus on "beating this game" and beating it again on my next set of characters. I'm looking at you World of Warcraft. So you have less money to spend on dining, which is fine. You don't have a social life anymore. So why should you care? Well it's nice having a social life and having extra money. I've made this longer than I expected, so to conclude myself: Monthly fees = playing more and spending time outside of the game less. Obviously I'm a gamer and this doesn't bother me a whole lot, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Which explains why I don't play WoW, but **** would I love to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashel Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Because they are too stupid to realize DLC is the true threat? Any monthly worth paying is a PC MMO or dedicated of some kind. All come with the first month free for $50, many much less if you wait but a few months. Is that really the issue? Most non-Blizzard products are virtually free nowdays. How much is an XBL account again? It's $4/mo annual and $8/mo a la cart in case you forget. So after two months, each spends about about $70 for their shiny new game (Gotta count the refreshment tax yo). One will have finished his 8hr game in a weekend and be bored or go back to MW2 for the next 7 weeks. The gamer on the other hand will probably have at least 40 hours and countless levels and stories in the meantime. There is a reason a good MMO will win that 3rd month's sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Bring the games down to like 19.99 and then i'll pay a monthly fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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