Monthly fees: Why the hate?


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It is all in the value you attach to it. For me, I see the movies as too expensive so I usually go to my school's student run theater where me and my wife can see a movie, have snacks, and a drink for around $6...

I just don't see a value in "renting" a game into perpetuity... As I can never pay the game unless I pay the fee. To me that just isn't a smart deal.

how many of these shows do you see each month?

again using my line of reasoning say you go to see two shows each month for $6 total package each. play an mmo for just an extra couple hours each month and bam equal value as long as it's keeping you entertained.

like mmo's you can't just go to the 6$ show months later without paying again every time you visit. and unlike mmo's teh show won't be showing your favourite play or movie months down the line where as with mmo's you pay your fee for the month and you can do your favourite parts over and voer again to your heart's content and at any time of the day or night unlike shows, and from the comfort of your own home and without transportation costs or time spent in transit. though you'll likely want to load up on snacks and drinks for playing any game, mmo's included.

for many people, mmo's save them alot of money, since they have something to do that's fun on teh weekend other than spending money to go out and do stuff.

for me mmo's have always been what i do for a few hours each night monday- thursday, a couple hours before i go out friday, then all day on weekends unless i go out and do something on saturday. when i stay in on friday nights to play my current mmo i'm saving a tonne of cash vs going out to the bar and getting smashed.

and for me $15 is a drop in the bucket. and imho like i've said earlier if $15 dollars is too much monthly for several hours a week of entertainment then you probably have other issues in your buudget and aren't spending anything on entertainment, let alone single player games and/or internet.

on an hours spent per dollar basis, mmo's are an unbeatable entertainment value. you have to play many accounts or buy new boxes very frequently combined with not playing them much at all(as in not all some months while paying your sub)for it to be anywhere near as expensive on this basis as pretty much anything else you can go out and do.

even mmo's i buy and play for only a month at launch i still tend to get more hours played than many single player games, even if they have online modes. yes there are exceptions to this, but they are rare.

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I don't mind monthly fees, up to a point. Let's take WoW as the example.

It's been out for, what, 6 years? Lets use some 'rough' average figures here.

$15/month, every month, with 1 million players.

That's over one BILLION dollars. Now we know there are FAR more players that play WoW, and while not all have played every month for 6 years, many have. That figure doesn't count in the fact you had to buy the game (or its expansions).

So what can a developer do with a billion dollars? A lot, believe me. Even if you subtract maintenance fees (such as servers, staff, devs, etc) that's still a lot of pocket money.

Now you have it in rough perspective. Tell me again why I should be paying 15 bucks a month to a company that's earnt that much money in the last 6 years.

You could apply the same logic to stealing cable. Those cable companies get enough money.

If you want to take a principled stand then cancel your account but don't try to justify how you should get it for free.

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how many of these shows do you see each month?

again using my line of reasoning say you go to see two shows each month for $6 total package each. play an mmo for just an extra couple hours each month and bam equal value as long as it's keeping you entertained.

like mmo's you can't just go to the 6$ show months later without paying again every time you visit. and unlike mmo's teh show won't be showing your favourite play or movie months down the line where as with mmo's you pay your fee for the month and you can do your favourite parts over and voer again to your heart's content and at any time of the day or night unlike shows, and from the comfort of your own home and without transportation costs or time spent in transit. though you'll likely want to load up on snacks and drinks for playing any game, mmo's included.

for many people, mmo's save them alot of money, since they have something to do that's fun on teh weekend other than spending money to go out and do stuff.

for me mmo's have always been what i do for a few hours each night monday- thursday, a couple hours before i go out friday, then all day on weekends unless i go out and do something on saturday. when i stay in on friday nights to play my current mmo i'm saving a tonne of cash vs going out to the bar and getting smashed.

and for me $15 is a drop in the bucket. and imho like i've said earlier if $15 dollars is too much monthly for several hours a week of entertainment then you probably have other issues in your buudget and aren't spending anything on entertainment, let alone single player games and/or internet.

on an hours spent per dollar basis, mmo's are an unbeatable entertainment value. you have to play many accounts or buy new boxes very frequently combined with not playing them much at all(as in not all some months while paying your sub)for it to be anywhere near as expensive on this basis as pretty much anything else you can go out and do.

even mmo's i buy and play for only a month at launch i still tend to get more hours played than many single player games, even if they have online modes. yes there are exceptions to this, but they are rare.

I usually see one a month as I'm not a big movie person, but that is another story...

The $15/m fee too me isn't cheap because that would limit my horizons to one game. And for each MMO I would have to shell out $15/m...

The fee looks small up front, but that isn't the case. We are talking about $15/m or $180 year or $25,530 taken out of my retirement account. I look at costs over the longterm...

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I usually see one a month as I'm not a big movie person, but that is another story...

The $15/m fee too me isn't cheap because that would limit my horizons to one game. And for each MMO I would have to shell out $15/m...

The fee looks small up front, but that isn't the case. We are talking about $15/m or $180 year or $25,530 taken out of my retirement account. I look at costs over the longterm...

i've never felt the need to stick to a single mmo/game only. i have a main game and then play others on the side. some fo the most fun i've had with mmo friends is a round of cs or dod or w/e on the weekend.

and in those terms you should never have fun now nor after you retire because it's going to cost too much. for me money is a means to an end, and the end is to enjoy life as much as possible while i'm still alive, after paying my bills. just like the extra money from overtime is not worth it to me to work those hours instead of enjoying my personal/social/free time, saving a mere $180 extra a year for retirement is not just a big value for me. but then i tend to make enough money to both save for the future and and have expensive toys/fun for today. not that i'm a big earner or anything.

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i've never felt the need to stick to a single mmo/game only. i have a main game and then play others on the side. some fo the most fun i've had with mmo friends is a round of cs or dod or w/e on the weekend.

and in those terms you should never have fun now nor after you retire because it's going to cost too much. for me money is a means to an end, and the end is to enjoy life as much as possible while i'm still alive, after paying my bills. just like the extra money from overtime is not worth it to me to work those hours instead of enjoying my personal/social/free time, saving a mere $180 extra a year for retirement is not just a big value for me. but then i tend to make enough money to both save for the future and and have expensive toys/fun for today. not that i'm a big earner or anything.

For sure the value of the fun today versus the fun tomorrow varies for all of us. For me I prefer that to be done via fixed prices for entertainment like games so that I can enjoy them as much or as little as I want without any recurring cost. That allows me to maximize the usage of my money for both a living and a savings perspective.

I always look at it over the longterm because small costs always look nice when you're incurring them. You get the "well it is only $5" here and "It is only $2" there and before you know it you've spent enormous sums of money on stuff that you could have passed on. Then you end up with the situation most people are in when they need a retirement fund or a rainy day fund (like at a job loss) and they realize they don't have any money (or enough).

People should have at least 6 months of pay in a liquid reserve and a good pool for retirement, but that is so rare it is near non-existent.

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I wouldn't mind it if the game was cheap like 9.99 and the subscription was around the same or less. Paying 60 bucks for a game and then extra to play online, (plus other fees such as xbox live, internet, etc) it's just too much, but I still prefer to buy the game and play online for free. Games are very expensive anyway.

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I pay 15 for wow because I get god knows how many hours for that $15 compared to a console game I pay $60 for and get 4-5 hours. To have the same amount of play on single player games I would be downing a lot more. Also I know I an going to enjoy WoW. If I go to a movie I hate then that is $10 wasted. Though most of the stuff I do is free. Excluding gas cost

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I pay 15 for wow because I get god knows how many hours for that $15 compared to a console game I pay $60 for and get 4-5 hours. To have the same amount of play on single player games I would be downing a lot more. Also I know I an going to enjoy WoW. If I go to a movie I hate then that is $10 wasted. Though most of the stuff I do is free. Excluding gas cost

First off, what console games do you buy that are only 4-5 hours? I rarely get games with that little content (but that might be because I do research on the games I buy). Second, that $15 is only worth as many hours as you put into the game. Paying a sub and then not playing for a majority of the month will basically waste said money. That is why I hate subscriptions, because they essentially force you to make the cost worth it by playing the game when in all honesty I should be able to play the game whenever I want. Being obligated to play it rather than wanting to play it is far more off-turning than anything. It is the main reason it is so hard for me to choose an MMO because I need to find one that I'll just play by default and never feel obligated to justify the next month's sub. Free play games, however, have no such obligation and therefore offer more replay value because I can play it for years and years so long as I have the disc (and without sinking thousands into holding onto a sub just to play it off and on).

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First off, what console games do you buy that are only 4-5 hours? I rarely get games with that little content (but that might be because I do research on the games I buy). Second, that $15 is only worth as many hours as you put into the game. Paying a sub and then not playing for a majority of the month will basically waste said money. That is why I hate subscriptions, because they essentially force you to make the cost worth it by playing the game when in all honesty I should be able to play the game whenever I want. Being obligated to play it rather than wanting to play it is far more off-turning than anything. It is the main reason it is so hard for me to choose an MMO because I need to find one that I'll just play by default and never feel obligated to justify the next month's sub. Free play games, however, have no such obligation and therefore offer more replay value because I can play it for years and years so long as I have the disc (and without sinking thousands into holding onto a sub just to play it off and on).

What if your $60 game sucks ass? You going to keep playing it because you're "obligated" to?

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I dont mind monthly fees really, I just hate the way they force you to pay double.

If theres a monthly fee, the game should be available for download free, or available retail for maybe a few dollars as a convenience. You cant play it without a subscription anyways, so its not like they would be losing out on customers. If I have to pay $50 or whatever for a game, that game is mine. I shouldnt have to pay to play a game I've already paid for. What am I paying $50 for then, a dvd and some cardboard?

I refuse to pay both on principle. Therefore, I've never played a game that required a monthly fee.

You are paying for the continued dev support of the game. Blizzard for example is very good at releasing content patches between expansions and I have always felt that they deal with bugs better then any game I have played on live Im not paying for monthly.

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Some of guys keep talking about that "$15 game you keep playing and it's cheaper". Some of us like to switch up games or play multiple different games. I don't want to play the same game every single night, just bec.ause it's cheaper for me. I don't mind paying $60 for a game. I just don't feel like I should have to pay a monthly fee on top of that $60. If it's cheap or free to start, then I might consider, but I like to switch things up, and monthly fees on top of that can get prohibitively expensive without gaining anything. At that point I'm not getting my money's worth out of the game because of that initial investment.

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No. **** off! Jesus F2P MMOs need to die in a fire.

<snipped>

people get the wrong idea on what a Free 2 Play game is..

no a free 2 play game is not a game u get for free to play online>>>> enough said

Free 2 play games are games were you pay a one time free for th Box set and able to play online forever for free as long as the server are online

Maple Story is not a free 2 play game Its justa FREE GAME,

GuildWars is a true Free2Play Online game.

10080257.png

by your idea that F2P game sohuld Die your like saying Games Like GuildWars so no be made...

Edited by Fred Derf
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<snipped>.

Really? :laugh:

people get the wrong idea on what a Free 2 Play game is..

no a free 2 play game is not a game u get for free to play online>>>> enough said

You wrote a horrible disjointed paragraph to make that point? Ugh. F2P games has been a common acronym for certain MMO's for years. No one ever calls TF2 or SCII a F2P game. Why would they? Free online play is a given. The phrase it applied to games where a fee is normally involved and instead servers are funded by ****ty micro transactions which you are arm-twisted in to buying to keep up with everyone else.

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Make a better game that more people will buy and you should not have to worry about monthly fees. Publishers and Developers do not seem to get this and would rather just continue push shovel-ware and other half-finished games and charge an astronomical price for them. If you are disappointed by a games sales, and are thinking of other ways to restore revenue, try making a better game. Stop blaming piracy, stop blaming used game sales, stop blaming financially frugal consumers. Take responsibility for yourself and realize you need to do a better job at making video games or GTFO of the business.

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I have no idea how people manage to play mmo's without getting bored. I like the whole package of a regular game. You play it, it takes a few days at most to finish it and it's done. Maybe it's because I like story based games. I do like RPGs too but even they seem to go on a bit too long sometimes.

I mean I can happily revisit *some* games again and again because of re-playability like RTS games. I can't see myself playing for months, just gaining levels with basically the same game mechanic again and again, let alone paying for it.

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I have no problem paying for Xbox Live. I've probably saved more money having a Gold account and playing games like Call of Duty 4, Modern Warfare 2 and Halo 3.

MMO like Ultima Online, EVE Online or World Of Warcraft? No problem either.

But if it's something like an FPS? No. Just ****ing no.

No. **** off! Jesus F2P MMOs need to die in a fire.

...

This. So hard. This.

Free To Play MMOs are ****ing annoying to play, because most of them DO include the "PAY MONEY AND GET ITEMS!!11" thing, and most of the time it's to the point that you can't get ANYWHERE without doing this.

I played Atlantica Online for a while and it got to the point where I just said **** it, because 90% of the cool stuff were pay only.

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I decided to write a simple walk-through:

Month 1.

You buy your new Crysis game for $60.

I buy my Everquest game for $60.

Crysis has free online multiplayer. So if he continues to play in month 2 online (see also, CoD, Halo, Gears, Killzone, Warhawk, TF2), by month two he wins hands down.

Also, I rent games through gamefly, which is $15 a month. But for that, I can generally get 2, maybe even 3 games in a month, wheras you're still stuck grinding the same game day in and day out.

What if your $60 game sucks ass? You going to keep playing it because you're "obligated" to?

You sell it off, and recoup some of the money you spent, and either use that on another game, or on a $20 blowie downtown.

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First off Guild Wars sucks. It's the most basic of all MMO's and even ArenaNet(the developers of Guild Wars) dont call it an MMO(they call it a competitive online role-playing game (CORPG)). Guild Wars 2 may change this but for now it stands. Also Guild Wars isnt entirely free. They do have an in game store where they recoup the lack of fees by selling bank slots and skill packs (for those too lazy to quest).

MMO's are the best value out there. Someone used the movie example which is good but the thing about MMO's(and typically any game that has a monthly fee) is content updates. WoW gets new content every 4-6 months that refreshes the game. Sure you can pay $60 for a new game but there is a likely chance there wont be content updates (and if there are they wont be free). MMO's have a long lasting appeal because the game is never "finished". It's ALWAYS in development. Maybe buying a new game every month is overkill(some games afterall do last for more than 1 month), if you buy a game every 2 months thats still $30 vs 60 and thus MMO's are still the bigger value.

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<snipped>

people get the wrong idea on what a Free 2 Play game is..

no a free 2 play game is not a game u get for free to play online>>>> enough said

Free 2 play games are games were you pay a one time free for th Box set and able to play online forever for free as long as the server are online

Maple Story is not a free 2 play game Its justa FREE GAME,

GuildWars is a true Free2Play Online game.

http://a.imageshack.us/img256/7868/10080257.png[/img

by your idea that F2P game sohuld Die your like saying Games Like GuildWars so no be made...

f2p games are not single player or multiplayer games that have one time costs and no sub. f2p games are online games that have no up front costs and cash shops for items such as uber items, exp buffs, costumes, etc etc.

guildwars is not a f2p game. it costs money for the battle chest and then more money for the expansion or two that doesn't come in the battle chest. and then it has a cash shop and player services for a fee.

f2p does and has always refered to online games with cash shops. they may be mmo's like maple story or atlantica online, or they may be fps/tps games like gunz or exteel or the asian f2p version of counter strike.

they always have some kind of cash shop and many in game incentives to use that cash shop, and for the top/viable players, cost far more in a shorter amount of time than any subscription based mmo.

Crysis has free online multiplayer. So if he continues to play in month 2 online (see also, CoD, Halo, Gears, Killzone, Warhawk, TF2), by month two he wins hands down.

Also, I rent games through gamefly, which is $15 a month. But for that, I can generally get 2, maybe even 3 games in a month, wheras you're still stuck grinding the same game day in and day out.

You sell it off, and recoup some of the money you spent, and either use that on another game, or on a $20 blowie downtown.

no crysis multiplayer is not free. it's part of the package you buy when you pay for the retail box. then it costs money to rent a server, and that is far more than $15 a month for even an 8 man server. as well, crysis multiplayer was bad, and within a few months after launch there were relatively few people playing on relatively few servers because it was a terrible mix of bf and cs.

i didn't know you could rent pc games, let alone play pc game rentals online.

and i didn't know you could resell pc games in the past decade since online portions have been tying cdkeys to some kind of account service and your email for quite some time. i certainly wouldn't waste my time or money on a used pc game, even if it was only $5, unless it had decent single player component, which is the only thing i could expect from it.

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by your idea that F2P game sohuld Die your like saying Games Like GuildWars so no be made...

That's fine with me.

There's a reason GW is F2P. it doesn't match up to P2P MMO's in the slightest. except maybe lineage, but they're made by the same **** MMO company.

the game has like a total of 6 armor models, no customization whatsoever. zero content upgrades outside of expansions and so on, and there isn't even that much content there to start with. heck it's not even a true MMO. it's a PS3 home gathering point area leading to different solo/group areas.

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The problem is that with PCs games, you have to pay diff monthly fees for several games you play since they are on diff networks. Why I switched to console gaming...one fee for dozens of online games.

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Crysis has free online multiplayer. So if he continues to play in month 2 online (see also, CoD, Halo, Gears, Killzone, Warhawk, TF2), by month two he wins hands down.

Also, I rent games through gamefly, which is $15 a month. But for that, I can generally get 2, maybe even 3 games in a month, wheras you're still stuck grinding the same game day in and day out.

You sell it off, and recoup some of the money you spent, and either use that on another game, or on a $20 blowie downtown.

Crysis doesn't get new content from the developer multiple times a month, persistent servers and all that.

also while the game rules usually don't allow it, people often sell their old MMO accounts. while your old CoD2 that you played for one day may net you a total of 20 back on the 60 you bought it for. MMO account sell for hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars.

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because;

A. it's not worth it.

B. games are expensive enough as it is, we don't need an extra cost slapped on top.

C. people become obsessed with MMO game.

D. WOW is not cool.

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The problem is that with PCs games, you have to pay diff monthly fees for several games you play since they are on diff networks. Why I switched to console gaming...one fee for dozens of online games.

lol wut?

you pay different fees if you play multiple sub based(p2p) mmo's, but most pc games don't cost more beyond the cost of the box unless you rent or donate to a server. although most pc games aren't worth the price of the box for the multiplayer alone, though for me that's true for all console games on top of their 10 hour single player campaigns.

i've played most of the failed wow killer mmo's that have launched in the last 2-3 years and even though they were more fun to bash on fan forums than to play in many cases the amount of time i spent playing anyon e of them tends to exceed the time i spent any one of the many single player games with an online mode in the past 15 years or so.

once in a while you get a single player game for $50 like dao that has 100 hours of play time in the campagin(note: i only played 14 hours into DAO before quitting out of boredom, and i tend to like bioware RPGs), but most of the time you get 20 hour campaigns and a poorly executed multiplayer mode that no one plays after a month or two let alone paying to rent the servers needed to play on.

for every half life there are five daiktanas. and that ratio is much higher on consoles in my experience.

for every wow there are 3 STOs, but at least those 3 STOs kept me entertained for a couple hours each day for a month each.

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First off Guild Wars sucks. It's the most basic of all MMO's and even ArenaNet(the developers of Guild Wars) dont call it an MMO(they call it a competitive online role-playing game (CORPG)). Guild Wars 2 may change this but for now it stands. Also Guild Wars isnt entirely free. They do have an in game store where they recoup the lack of fees by selling bank slots and skill packs (for those too lazy to quest).

MMO's are the best value out there. Someone used the movie example which is good but the thing about MMO's(and typically any game that has a monthly fee) is content updates. WoW gets new content every 4-6 months that refreshes the game. Sure you can pay $60 for a new game but there is a likely chance there wont be content updates (and if there are they wont be free). MMO's have a long lasting appeal because the game is never "finished". It's ALWAYS in development. Maybe buying a new game every month is overkill(some games afterall do last for more than 1 month), if you buy a game every 2 months thats still $30 vs 60 and thus MMO's are still the bigger value.

Good value, unless you don't like MMO's :whistle:

Besides that, it's your opinion that Guild Wars sucks. Not everyone shares your opinion. I still play and love Ghost Recon. That's my prerogative. I actually enjoy the community of people that I play and it's completely FREE. That's just one example, although old, still valid. People still releases maps and packs for it. Guess what, they're free also. The point is that LOTS of games have modding communities. Some of the do better work than the developers. They give their work away for free.

Unreal Tournament has had a HUGE modding community over the years with many awesome mods. All free. You make your initial investment and how many completely new variations do you get with that?

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