etempest Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 I will not pay a monthly fee for a non mmo game (looking at you Activision). The game is "done", your suppose to make your money there. In addition when someone sells a game, it's not like the original owner is still using the online server. MMO based games, mixed feelings. I tend to avoid fee based games, GuildWars compiled me that business model can work (I enjoyed GW but consider it a hybrid MMO, not a "true" mmo), but think it's ok for fee based MMO. It just has to be really good for me to pay, but I have no "hate" for them. I don't even have objections to transaction based games where you can spend money to reduce grind and still have option to do it the slow traditional way, however don't play games that the free mode is "gimp" vs the paid model. I don't mind XboxLive, since it's an ALL games gain online ability (less MMO's) however fee on top of Live upsets me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soniqstylz Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 also while the game rules usually don't allow it, people often sell their old MMO accounts. while your old CoD2 that you played for one day may net you a total of 20 back on the 60 you bought it for. MMO account sell for hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars. vs. the amount of time to put into a character to level it far enough to sell it for that much, horrible return on investment. Level 80 characters in WoW sell for like $250.00 (here: http://www.buymmoaccounts.com/) Get a job for that. And, related, those paying possibly thousands for just the character (and more for the game and sub fees), how's the value for MMO vs. value for console game look there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 yeah but then again you're payin to play online for many games that you don't have to pay for on the pc. Like MW2, and BC2, and so on. I mean what games would you even pay for to play online on the pc side? World of warcraft? Etc? I cant really think of any besides that since i dont play them/dont have to pay. A console is like Steam with exclusive titles that only it can run. The reason people pay for Live is because it offers a service that allows interaction between players, streaming between that party and exclusive games. Not to mention it doesn't require that you own a $700-$1200 rig to play the latest games. It is a similar investment, but also a very different one. Not to mention the online service is usually very stable while many of the online PC games I play have strange, quirky issues with some of the hardware I am using (router, GPU, CPU, etc). Not that PC devs aren't prompt on a patch for such issues but a console avoids almost all of those kinds of things entirely which saves work for the devs and the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted August 3, 2010 Veteran Share Posted August 3, 2010 A console is like Steam with exclusive titles that only it can run. The reason people pay for Live is because it offers a service that allows interaction between players, streaming between that party and exclusive games. Not to mention it doesn't require that you buy a $700-$1200 rig every year to play the latest games. It is a similar investment, but also a very different one. Not to mention the online service is usually very stable while many of the online PC games I play have strange, quirky issues with some of the hardware I am using (router, GPU, CPU, etc). Not that PC devs aren't prompt on a patch for such issues but a console avoids almost all of those kinds of things entirely which saves work for the devs and the players. Fixed. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treemonster Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Fixed. ;) funny for 3 years i played the latest games at high to max settings after an initial $800 investement while my bro had to buy 2 xbox 360s because his kept dying without rrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Fixed. ;) Actually, it is more like every 2.5-4 years. And that is assuming that you needed to upgrade the mobo which may require many hardware changes. Just one or two changes may actually be anywhere from $100-$400. My computer is already almost three years old yet it can still run most of what is out there. But that is because I spent 6 months researching good hardware that wouldn't break the bank and still last for a while. I have actually be thinking of upgrading a graphics card and running some SLI but I'm still able to run so much that I haven't. Still I am getting very close to hitting the hardware's limit and will need to upgrade soon. A console, however, can be around for anywhere from 5 -10 years. At the average of $450 for a new console you really end up saving a lot of money in the long run compared to a PC even though you do sacrifice the modularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted August 3, 2010 Veteran Share Posted August 3, 2010 It also should be noted that PCs can serve a variety of uses that goes beyond gaming. Anyone with a console will still likely want to have at least a halfway decent computer for other uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raa Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 You could apply the same logic to stealing cable. Those cable companies get enough money. If you want to take a principled stand then cancel your account but don't try to justify how you should get it for free. I never said I wanted it for free. I said "up to a point". Which means, i'd be happy to pay (maybe) half that fee. And WoW was just an example. I don't believe I should pay a quarter of what NCSoft asks for Aion - it's not worth it. So I don't pay for/play it anymore. While free MMOs are nice, I realise that there are expenses to be covered. I don't believe in free lunches. You get what you pay for, again up to a point. If you've put a billion bucks in your pocket from a game, you're ripping people off. That's my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCordRm Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 It also should be noted that PCs can serve a variety of uses that goes beyond gaming. Anyone with a console will still likely want to have at least a halfway decent computer for other uses. I didn't bring that up here... I argued that exact point in a PC vs. Console thread. You don't go to work and log into your XBOX. heh. I never said I wanted it for free. I said "up to a point". Which means, i'd be happy to pay (maybe) half that fee. And WoW was just an example. I don't believe I should pay a quarter of what NCSoft asks for Aion - it's not worth it. So I don't pay for/play it anymore. While free MMOs are nice, I realise that there are expenses to be covered. I don't believe in free lunches. You get what you pay for, again up to a point. If you've put a billion bucks in your pocket from a game, you're ripping people off. That's my take on it. That's just dumb. While I might find the cost of <Insert product here> to be outrageous, that in no way makes Company X a criminal. If you make something, or perform a service, you have the right to ask whatever the hell YOU feel it's worth. No-one else has the right to tell you otherwise. And by that same standard, you have no authority to demand Company X "only" charge a specific price for what they sell or do. The power of the consumer is to simply not buy. But if people ARE buying... then more power to whomever is selling. It's called business. EDIT You know, I decided you may need more clarification on this. Let's say Author X writes a book and sells it for $1. If he manages to sell 1 billion copies he is- by your definition- a criminal. So what exactly are you suggesting? That after 1 million copies are sold he should take his product off the market? Or perhaps he should start handing out his book for free and thus "rip off" everyone that paid money for it? Do you see how ignorant that sounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deridex01 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I'm a little late to this thread, but people pay monthly fees to use everything, tv's, cars', as this is a 'new' thing relativly in the world there is out cry, well just read the soapbox at the bottom of the cad comic - http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20100628. Just an opnion, and i happily pay for wow and eve, the content and the world keep me more occupied than any other online game i play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 EDIT You know, I decided you may need more clarification on this. Let's say Author X writes a book and sells it for $1. If he manages to sell 1 billion copies he is- by your definition- a criminal. So what exactly are you suggesting? That after 1 million copies are sold he should take his product off the market? Or perhaps he should start handing out his book for free and thus "rip off" everyone that paid money for it? Do you see how ignorant that sounds? If he sells each copy at a $0.05 profit then he would only be making $50 million and not $1 billion. The thing is, even with expenses such as server maintenance, pay for game updates, patches and expansion Blizzard is still making billions of dollars from their game which could be used in a far more effective way. Either by lower sub prices, making the game free or possibly making the expansions free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCordRm Posted August 11, 2010 Author Share Posted August 11, 2010 If he sells each copy at a $0.05 profit then he would only be making $50 million and not $1 billion. The thing is, even with expenses such as server maintenance, pay for game updates, patches and expansion Blizzard is still making billions of dollars from their game which could be used in a far more effective way. Either by lower sub prices, making the game free or possibly making the expansions free. All that and you still didn't answer the question. So they "only" make $50 million dollars. And then they should lower prices or make it free? Tell you what, you go make a product and then stop making profits when I tell you... just because I say so. We'll see how far that flies. Also, you obviously have NO concept what "more effective" means. The fact that they've made billions tells me they've made some VERY effective money decisions. What kind of expert are you to say different in the face of their proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted August 11, 2010 MVC Share Posted August 11, 2010 If he sells each copy at a $0.05 profit then he would only be making $50 million and not $1 billion. The thing is, even with expenses such as server maintenance, pay for game updates, patches and expansion Blizzard is still making billions of dollars from their game which could be used in a far more effective way. Either by lower sub prices, making the game free or possibly making the expansions free. There is nothing wrong with making a profit. You (and I) may think that $XX.XX is too much to pay for X service, but that isn't important. Any company that makes a pricing decision is making it based on the market they are targeting. If Blizzard were charging too much for WoW then they wouldn't have enough subscribers to justify their price structure and they will drop it accordingly. If they have that much money they could honestly raise their prices and do better off with less subscribers... If they lowered prices that would just be stupid... You don't lower prices when people have shown they want to pay more... No business tries to target 100% of the population. They try to target some subset of it. That is why we all buy different products (what we value varies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 All that and you still didn't answer the question. So they "only" make $50 million dollars. And then they should lower prices or make it free? Tell you what, you go make a product and then stop making profits when I tell you... just because I say so. We'll see how far that flies. Also, you obviously have NO concept what "more effective" means. The fact that they've made billions tells me they've made some VERY effective money decisions. What kind of expert are you to say different in the face of their proof? I'm not agreeing with this point, just trying to explain it because you seemed to miss the part about the fact they were still making billions in "profit". Most businesses use what they make somewhere. A smart business spends that profit on the business if they can. That makes more money spent on the business and less taxed. While there are numerous ways to achieve this, perhaps now that it has been running for many years and has a ridiculously dedicated following they could possibly high five their users and give them a small reduction in sub price from $13.99 a month to $9.99 a month or perhaps start giving out free expansions since they can clearly cover those working on them off subs alone. I don't think he or anyone is asking for the game to be $1 a month or anything obscene like that. Just some form of acknowledgement that "we're making more money than we know what to do with". I understand there is no reason for a business to cut the price on something of high demand, but until recently I thought companies like Blizzard/Valve/Bungie/etc. weren't necessarily run by business planning alone. Many game studios enjoy rewarding their fans for sticking with them for a long period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjor Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 People hate the fact that some games, like WoW and other MMORPGs, charge monthly fees because most other games do not. As an analogy, what if most cars ran without the need for fuel. However, some select few cars (the good cars) required you to pay for fuel or a monthly basis. Well, some people would be ****ed. It is simply the fact that some games do not charge and some do that creates the hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duality Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I pay monthly for Eve Online. Worth it, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 My movie analogy was spot on. You go to a movie, spend 15$, see a great movie, meet a girl, and have a even greater night lol. That right there tops anything you just spent on a game, ever :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treemonster Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 There is nothing wrong with making a profit. You (and I) may think that $XX.XX is too much to pay for X service, but that isn't important. Any company that makes a pricing decision is making it based on the market they are targeting. If Blizzard were charging too much for WoW then they wouldn't have enough subscribers to justify their price structure and they will drop it accordingly. If they have that much money they could honestly raise their prices and do better off with less subscribers... If they lowered prices that would just be stupid... You don't lower prices when people have shown they want to pay more... No business tries to target 100% of the population. They try to target some subset of it. That is why we all buy different products (what we value varies). +1 not every mmo is worth $15 a month. example: STO again. they asked the customer what they should charge per month in beta. the overwhelming response from beta testers was $10(average) many felt that the game just did not justify a $15 a month price tag, but that $10 would be fair. sure there were a few people that said no monthly fee or $5 or something. and now most of hte people who still play it are LTSers, many of which feel suckered at this point, and many of those have stopped playing regularly(mainly due to lack of things to do). i myself might have stayed another month or two had it been $10, but by the end of the first paid month i felt i could not play enough(ie at all) and have fun to make the $15 a month price tag worth it for what it was(and still is) My movie analogy was spot on. You go to a movie, spend 15$, see a great movie, meet a girl, and have a even greater night lol. That right there tops anything you just spent on a game, ever :p when i want to meet new people, especially single girls, ithe movies is not my first choice. and i learned a long time ago that bringing a girl i recently started dating to a movie was a poor choice of date activity. it's better to go to a pub and talk over drinks(expensive) or go to the beach and have ice cream(cheap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 when i want to meet new people, especially single girls, ithe movies is not my first choice. and i learned a long time ago that bringing a girl i recently started dating to a movie was a poor choice of date activity. it's better to go to a pub and talk over drinks(expensive) or go to the beach and have ice cream(cheap). ?I can stand brute force, but brute reason is quite unbearable. There is something unfair about its use. It is hitting below the intellect.? Oscar Wilde :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treemonster Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 ?I can stand brute force, but brute reason is quite unbearable. There is something unfair about its use. It is hitting below the intellect.? Oscar Wilde :p not sure how that relates? wit fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 not sure how that relates? wit fail? i was just crackin a joke, but you went and got all logical and analytical on me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treemonster Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 i was just crackin a joke, but you went and got all logical and analytical on me lol :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCordRm Posted August 14, 2010 Author Share Posted August 14, 2010 In another forum, someone actually posted: There is no room for your logic here. GTFO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovieFanatic07 Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 I would only pay $5.00 a month for an online play. Being on Xbox 360 costs to much money with gold membership each year, so if they should charge anyone it should be ps3 users as they get their online play for free. Lulz, or it should be charged to 360 users since they clearly don't have a problem with monthly fees. Idiotic response deserves another, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raa Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 That's just dumb. While I might find the cost of <Insert product here> to be outrageous, that in no way makes Company X a criminal. If you make something, or perform a service, you have the right to ask whatever the hell YOU feel it's worth. No-one else has the right to tell you otherwise. And by that same standard, you have no authority to demand Company X "only" charge a specific price for what they sell or do. The power of the consumer is to simply not buy. But if people ARE buying... then more power to whomever is selling. It's called business. EDIT You know, I decided you may need more clarification on this. Let's say Author X writes a book and sells it for $1. If he manages to sell 1 billion copies he is- by your definition- a criminal. So what exactly are you suggesting? That after 1 million copies are sold he should take his product off the market? Or perhaps he should start handing out his book for free and thus "rip off" everyone that paid money for it? Do you see how ignorant that sounds? Whoa, easy mate. I'm not attacking or dissing you (or Blizzard), remember, they were just the example - and this is my opinion. I personally feel that any company is asking too much if they're earning large amounts of profit. That applies to any company. If Author X writes a book for $1, sells a billion copies, by definition he will not have that billion dollars, as he has costs to be taken out. If he ends up with a million dollars after selling a billion books, he's not a crook - and I support him. Also, thinking about your analogy, you're off on that point. If I buy a book, I don't have to pay a recurring fee to read it. With online gaming, I generally do. What i'm saying is, if Company X charges a fee for a game per month (bearing in mind they have already got an initial fee from me for buying the game), and at the end of a year the company has made considerable millions in profit, they're charging too much. Sure, charge $30/month to start with, but as time goes on, more people subscribe, fees should drop. That would make everyone happy, and Company X still turns a profit. Not unfair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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