Hum Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 A graduate student in Georgia is suing her university after she was told she must undergo a remediation program due to her beliefs on homosexuality and transgendered persons. The student, Jennifer Keeton, 24, has been pursuing a master's degree in school counseling at Augusta State University since 2009, but school officials have informed her that she'll be dismissed from the program unless she alters her "central religious beliefs on human nature and conduct," according to a civil complaint filed last week. "[Augusta State University] faculty have promised to expel Miss Keeton from the graduate Counselor Education Program not because of poor academic showing or demonstrated deficiencies in clinical performance, but simply because she has communicated both inside and outside the classroom that she holds to Christian ethical convictions on matters of human sexuality and gender identity," the 43-page lawsuit reads. Keeton, according to the lawsuit, was informed by school officials in late May that she would be asked to take part in a remediation plan due to faculty concerns regarding her beliefs pertaining to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender issues. "The faculty identifies Miss Keeton's views as indicative of her improper professional disposition to persons of such populations," the lawsuit reads. more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udedenkz Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 +1 for the University Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 +2 to the university. A degree in school counseling. What if a Gay student were to come in? Would she not talk with them? Stupid closed-minded people. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etempest Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 When I saw the headline, I though some employee that was about to be fired or a southern university. Guess I was right with the 2nd part. Misread article had it flipped, rooting for university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted July 27, 2010 Author Share Posted July 27, 2010 Why didn't they just flog the God out of her ... ? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azure.sapphire Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 It is a graduate program. It is a privilege to enter the program, they can dismiss someone for not conforming to their view of what an acceptable graduate candidate should meet in criteria. There is nothing under the 1st Amendment to protect her. This is not a freedom of religion or speech issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japlabot Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 "The Counselor Education Program is grounded in the core principles of the American Counseling Association and the American School Counselor Association, which defines the roles and responsibilities of professional counselors in its code of ethics," the statement read. "The code is included in the curriculum of the counseling education program, which states that counselors in training have the same responsibility as professional counselors to understand and follow the ACA Code of Ethics." That means keep your PERSONAL opinions to yourself and only express your PROFESSIONAL opinion if you want to be a councillor, Ms. Keeton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Well some universities have free speech zones, where people can say what they like,which I find irresponsible,universities in the United States shouldn't limit peoples free speech.If you're going to be fair about the situation, if you let gays and lesbians be outspoken about their rights and all that then you should allow a religious person their right to say what they want and do what they want as well, same goes for race relations.If we want to succeed in being a free and open nation then everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion on all kinds of matters.Liberals who say religious people don't have a right to say or do what they want just because they don't subscribe to religious thoughts should think about their views a little bit because its hypocrisy to allow one group to say what they please and not allow another group. To tell someone to get rid of their belief is beyond idiotic. I give the university a -1000 for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSoft Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 they can dismiss someone for not conforming to their view of what an acceptable graduate candidate should meet What a load of tosh. For example. If you enter a politicol science degree, you are saying that the university has every right to just dismiss you because you are not a liberal and the univerisities position/faculty are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentaal Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 In other news, people enter universities to change their views on things and acquire knowledge. If she's unable to do so, I see nothing wrong in failing her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw2001 Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 What a load of tosh. For example. If you enter a politicol science degree, you are saying that the university has every right to just dismiss you because you are not a liberal and the univerisities position/faculty are? Worthless argument given the OP knew EXACTLY what she was getting into in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Well some universities have free speech zones, where people can say what they like,which I find irresponsible,universities in the United States shouldn't limit peoples free speech.If you're going to be fair about the situation, if you let gays and lesbians be outspoken about their rights and all that then you should allow a religious person their right to say what they want and do what they want as well, same goes for race relations.If we want to succeed in being a free and open nation then everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion on all kinds of matters.Liberals who say religious people don't have a right to say or do what they want just because they don't subscribe to religious thoughts should think about their views a little bit because its hypocrisy to allow one group to say what they please and not allow another group. To tell someone to get rid of their belief is beyond idiotic. I give the university a -1000 for this. But the point is that the liberals are right here. People who have something against Gays/Lesbians etc can voice their opinion, but not in a public school situation like this woman is trying to be. When you are working with children, you absolutely have to leave your thoughts and opinions out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 In other news, people enter universities to change their views on things and acquire knowledge. If she's unable to do so, I see nothing wrong in failing her. Really? You think students go to university so they can be social engineered to the universities liking lol. But the point is that the liberals are right here. People who have something against Gays/Lesbians etc can voice their opinion, but not in a public school situation like this woman is trying to be. When you are working with children, you absolutely have to leave your thoughts and opinions out of it. And you don't think gays and lesbians voice their opinions on school grounds lol you got to be kidding me.Gays and lesbians do voice their opinions on school grounds.I don't care if you agree with her voicing hers or not.But its not your place or the universities place to tell her to change he beliefs if one group is allowed to state theirs with no punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentaal Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Really? You think students go to university so they can be social engineered to the universities liking lol. Do you have some comprehension issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azure.sapphire Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 What a load of tosh. For example. If you enter a political science degree, you are saying that the university has every right to just dismiss you because you are not a liberal and the universities position/faculty are? It is less likely for an undergraduate degree, but they could dismiss you. A university education (if public), while state subsidized is a privilege and not an unlimited free speech zone. Still, most campuses are very liberal and will accept free speech as long as it does not present a clear and present danger, break the law... whatever. Two points, here, however. She is a graduate student. This changes things a bit given that the university has a vested interest in her outcome. They are more responsible for her academic positions. Second, this has nothing to do with her not being liberal. She is going into a profession that requires her to diagnosis an individual, and she is approaching it from bias information that is outside the field of study. A more appropriate analogy with a political science student would be not conservative or liberal, but rather one that does there graduate thesis on the need to end political institutions and restore the divine right of kings. They would not meet the program criteria because they don't actually believe in the tenants of the "program." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Do you have some comprehension issues? Go away troll. Anyway,i'm more liberal on this than the liberals lol.Don't liberals want everyone to be treated fairly,Seeing how they always stand up for gays rights and race relations.Its cool to stand up for gays and different races but not certain peoples beliefs lol. Get with it people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentaal Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Go away troll. Explain how I'm a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSoft Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Worthless argument given the OP knew EXACTLY what she was getting into in the first place. It's the exact same arguement, just a different course. I'm fairly sure that in the curriculum it didn't explicitly state that she would have to go remedial classes because of her beliefs. Is America turning to communism where people get sent to "rehabilitation" classes? Sounds awfully like the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Explain how I'm a troll. Being rude and being off topic. It's the exact same arguement, just a different course. I'm fairly sure that in the curriculum it didn't explicitly state that she would have to go remedial classes because of her beliefs. Is America turning to communism where people get sent to "rehabilitation" classes? Sounds awfully like the same thing. Of course,It's the liberal way or the highway.They're for certain groups rights but if you're not a liberal then you're trash.Its peace and love with them in till they find out you're not a liberal then you're the scum of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azure.sapphire Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Well some universities have free speech zones, where people can say what they like,which I find irresponsible,universities in the United States shouldn't limit peoples free speech.If you're going to be fair about the situation, if you let gays and lesbians be outspoken about their rights and all that then you should allow a religious person their right to say what they want and do what they want as well, same goes for race relations.If we want to succeed in being a free and open nation then everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion on all kinds of matters.Liberals who say religious people don't have a right to say or do what they want just because they don't subscribe to religious thoughts should think about their views a little bit because its hypocrisy to allow one group to say what they please and not allow another group. To tell someone to get rid of their belief is beyond idiotic. I give the university a -1000 for this. So by that logic, if I don't believe that blacks are people I should be free to utter nonsense about how (blacks, Jews), start a "white pride" organization and publish articles in the student newspaper telling the campus for our need to rise up against the black man and either enslave him or send him back to Africa. My graduate thesis in political science could be on the need to restore segregation. How long do you think I would be in "the said" graduate program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw2001 Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 It's the exact same arguement, just a different course. I'm fairly sure that in the curriculum it didn't explicitly state that she would have to go remedial classes because of her beliefs. Is America turning to communism where people get sent to "rehabilitation" classes? Sounds awfully like the same thing. Do you want someone of a different religion converting your children with out you knowing? Its about being professional, Go by the books and keep biased opinions out of *sciences*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenBeard Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 How can a University dictate to people what to think ? She should be free to THINK what she wants, everyone should be free to THINK what they want, as long as they don't go forcing people to think like them. This is one of our fundamental rights as Humans. @brentaal, People enter universities to acquire knowledge. FULL STOP. Changing views is a side effect and in no way it is a criterion to fail people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 So by that logic, if I don't believe that blacks are people I should be free to utter nonsense about how (blacks, Jews), start a "white pride" organization and publish articles in the student newspaper telling the campus for our need to rise up against the black man and either enslave him or send him back to Africa. My graduate thesis in political science could be on the need to restore segregation. How long do you think I would be in the said graduate program? Why doesn't anyone ever bring up the black panthers? they spew hate all the time and without a doubt theres most likely some on university campus's right now but how many news stories we hear about them. Its ok for the black man to hate the white man but not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSoft Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 It is less likely for an undergraduate degree, but they could dismiss you. No they can't. That's a huge encroachment of your 1st ammendment privs. A university education (if public), while state subsidized is a privilege and not an unlimited free speech zone. Most universities are not just state subsidized but receive massive federal grants. this has nothing to do with her not being liberal. She is going into a profession that requires her to diagnosis an individual, and she is approaching it from bias information that is outside the field of study. I didn't say whether she was liberal or not. If you read what I stated then you would have noticed that I was referring to a different course but basing it on your arguement. According to your arguement the same conclusion could apply. A more appropriate analogy with a political science student would be not conservative or liberal No, the analogy was appropriate. She would be dismissed because of her beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 And you don't think gays and lesbians voice their opinions on school grounds lol you got to be kidding me.Gays and lesbians do voice their opinions on school grounds.I don't care if you agree with her voicing hers or not.But its not your place or the universities place to tell her to change he beliefs if one group is allowed to state theirs with no punishment. You don't get it. She will be HIRED BY A SCHOOL to be a consoler after graduation. She has NO RIGHT to voice her opinion when working with kids. What she does outside of school is her own business What if a Gay student came into her office to talk about a problem. Her beliefs would not let her do her job effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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