[Rant] I really hate the way modern games let you save


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Oh I remember the days where you fought with teeth and claws through swarms of enemies that were actually able to kill you, just to get that next checkpoint - A proper challenge. Today, it's about

hitting quick save every five feet and then think you are the business when you complete the game on "Normal" difficulty.

By the way, your title is messed up.

I'll agree with you in some aspects, but some game designers appear to have a save/checkpoint system that was implemented as sort of an afterthought. In those regards, I can easily see a valid point in arguing the game setup.

As far as mobile gaming is concerned, I appreciate games with a save+quit anywhere option, as I'm not about to tell someone, "Hang on, I'm in a battle"... :p

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I'll agree with you in some aspects, but some game designers appear to have a save/checkpoint system that was implemented as sort of an afterthought. In those regards, I can easily see a valid point in arguing the game setup.

As far as mobile gaming is concerned, I appreciate games with a save+quit anywhere option, as I'm not about to tell someone, "Hang on, I'm in a battle"... :p

Oh yeah, not saying a checkpoint based system would work everywhere - Just saying it was good, as they provided a good challenge. The save system for each game shouldn't

be a rock, paper, scissor decision between the developers. It should be a very concious decision that is based on what kind of game it is, who it markets itself to.

Say, a game made for handheld devices like the PSP, DS should have a "Save Anytime, Anywhere" system as the systems are meant to be lugged around and games can be interrupted fairly quick.

I just want the "Save anywhere" system to just sod off from the majority of games as it completely kills the challenge.

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i like autosave features that the game uses frequently so i don't even have to think about it.

certain games i don't mind not being able to save mid map, like dynasty warrior franchise games. but those are 15 minute max slash n hack fests.

i hate when i die on a boss and have to spend 15 minutes fighting my way back to that boss for another attempt.

i also hate games that have limited saves. like you can only manually save 30 times total per game or something.

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In my opinion, it depends on the game. For a platformer or FPS, checkpoint saves are fine and tend to work as long as the developer isn't crap and places them too far (or even too close) together.

For games like RPGs, a save anywhere is very important. This is one thing that really annoys me about Alpha Protocol - a game that is billed as an RPG and gives you the option to save at any point in the game, but will always return you to the last checkpoint. I also don't like how The Saboteur does saving either. You can save state anywhere in the game, but it always loads you back into the nearest HQ rather than where you were in the game world.

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IMO saving whenever you want completely eliminates the challenge in games. If there's no negative consequence to dying in game you might as well just play the game with an invincibility cheat.

Not everyone is a great gamer, but wants to still play games. Which is why it should be there as an option. For the hardcore elite, "i am better than everyone", gamers like you, you can just not use the save option. But for those of us who would like it, make it available to us.

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Not everyone is a great gamer, but wants to still play games. Which is why it should be there as an option. For the hardcore elite, "i am better than everyone", gamers like you, you can just not use the save option. But for those of us who would like it, make it available to us.

Simply saying "Oh I won't use that feature" isn't even in the same universe as the game being designed like that from the get-go. It's all about overcoming the game, overcoming a challenge set forth

by the developers of the game, being able to get that self gratification that you did something a lot of people won't be able to do ( Depends how hard it is, of course ) That entire aspect is dropped into the toilet bowl and flushed if it's just a limitation

set forth by yourself.

They should break up the save system in the difficulty level, so the players not-so-good at games can stick with Easy / Normal and save whenever and wherever they like

where everything above is based on checkpoints, I wouldn't mind a system like that.

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Oh yeah, not saying a checkpoint based system would work everywhere - Just saying it was good, as they provided a good challenge. The save system for each game shouldn't

be a rock, paper, scissor decision between the developers. It should be a very concious decision that is based on what kind of game it is, who it markets itself to.

Say, a game made for handheld devices like the PSP, DS should have a "Save Anytime, Anywhere" system as the systems are meant to be lugged around and games can be interrupted fairly quick.

I just want the "Save anywhere" system to just sod off from the majority of games as it completely kills the challenge.

Your argument makes little, if any, sense.

If you feel it removes the challenge, you don't have to use it. Almost every game with save anywhere has a checkpoint system as well. How good those systems are is up for debate, which is just one reason why people want save anywhere. Furthermore, if a checkpoint system is developed well, a save will occur right after a tough spot -- which is when the average user would save again in a save anywhere system. I don't know anyone who would really save in the middle of a boss fight, for instance. So I don't really see how it even removes the challenge (which, again, you don't even have to utilize).

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Are you kidding? Simply saying "Oh I won't use that feature" isn't even in the same universe as the game being designed like that from the get-go. It's all about overcoming the game, overcoming a challenge set forth

by the developers of the game, being able to get that self gratification that you did something a lot of people won't be able to do. That entire aspect is dropped into the toilet bowl and flushed if it's just a limitation

set forth by yourself.

Not kidding at all. Why not allow people like us that struggle with games to be able to go to "start > save". For those who prefer the extra challenge and are better at games, they can choose not to save. Simple actually.

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Not kidding at all. Why not allow people like us that struggle with games to be able to go to "start > save". For those who prefer the extra challenge and are better at games, they can choose not to save. Simple actually.

You clearly don't grasp the concept then.

Your argument makes little, if any, sense.

If you feel it removes the challenge, you don't have to use it. Almost every game with save anywhere has a checkpoint system as well. How good those systems are is up for debate, which is just one reason why people want save anywhere. Furthermore, if a checkpoint system is developed well, a save will occur right after a tough spot -- which is when the average user would save again in a save anywhere system. I don't know anyone who would really save in the middle of a boss fight, for instance. So I don't really see how it even removes the challenge (which, again, you don't even have to utilize).

Read the post I made above, the "Don't use it" argument is pants-on-head retarded.

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You clearly don't grasp the concept then.

You clearly don't grasp the option of choice. It wouldn't affect YOU in anyway. Nobody is forcing you to use a save option if made available. It's really that simple.

It's sad that people don't want choices.

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IMO saving whenever you want completely eliminates the challenge in games. If there's no negative consequence to dying in game you might as well just play the game with an invincibility cheat.

Yeah, I agree for the most part. In FPS games I like the "checkpoint" approach because it keeps the game challenging, especially in the new-wave of FPS where your life or shield automatically regenerated when you are under cover. For RPG and RTS style games, it makes sense to be able to save and load whenever you want.

I also have always appreciated the WoW and MMO approach: dying just means time wasted and there is no game saving. In fact, I wish more games were like this.

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You clearly don't grasp the option of choice. It wouldn't affect YOU in anyway. Nobody is forcing you to use a save option if made available. It's really that simple.

It's sad that people don't want choices.

It's sad people who sucks at games have to ruin it for the rest of it.

The challenge needs to be set by the developers, not by ourselves - Divide it by the difficulty level.

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It's sad people who sucks at games have to ruin it for the rest of it.

The challenge needs to be set by the developers, not by ourselves - Divide it by the difficulty level.

The challenge hasn't changed for you. Don't use the save feature.

You just don't get it, do you?

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The challenge hasn't changed for you. Don't use the save feature.

You just don't get it, do you?

It's not the same, when will you get it through that thick skull of yours.

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Read the post I made above, the "Don't use it" argument is pants-on-head retarded.

This isn't about a game being designed or not designed for a feature in many instances. It was just a choice that was made. I don't know a single FPS game that has its challenge lost by adding a save anywhere system. Hell, even games developed for a console first, such as Halo or Killzone, don't have any challenge removed with a save anywhere system. Maybe you should provide an example of a game where a save anywhere system ruins the challenge. Please keep in mind that most of the time, if a challenge is so difficult, a save anywhere system will not help. For example, in the middle of a boss fight, if someone saves the game, it's not going to do anything advantageous -- it's going to put them right in the middle of the boss fight where they'll almost surely get hit immediately, leaving them at a disadvantage from the get-go. And for those multi-stage boss fights, checkpoint systems almost always add a checkpoint between segments as well.

So, really, can you provide an example of a game where the challenge is removed when a save anywhere feature is added? And I'm talking about a game where it used to be standard to have save anywhere, like most FPS games. If a genre never had save anywhere, obviously the argument isn't to add that feature.

You need to stop using insults to get your point across. It really makes you look like you have no argument and no clue what you're talking about, which may not be the case.

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It's not the same, when will you get it through that thick skull of yours.

Nothing to get through my skull. You just are clueless on this topic. We will just agree to disagree.

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I totally agree about NSMB. At least give you the option of saving after running through every stage. Being able to save after finishing a castle is ****ing bull****.

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This isn't about a game being designed or not designed for a feature in many instances. It was just a choice that was made. I don't know a single FPS game that has its challenge lost by adding a save anywhere system. Hell, even games developed for a console first, such as Halo or Killzone, don't have any challenge removed with a save anywhere system. Maybe you should provide an example of a game where a save anywhere system ruins the challenge. Please keep in mind that most of the time, if a challenge is so difficult, a save anywhere system will not help. For example, in the middle of a boss fight, if someone saves the game, it's not going to do anything advantageous -- it's going to put them right in the middle of the boss fight where they'll almost surely get hit immediately, leaving them at a disadvantage from the get-go. And for those multi-stage boss fights, checkpoint systems almost always add a checkpoint between segments as well.

So, really, can you provide an example of a game where the challenge is removed when a save anywhere feature is added? And I'm talking about a game where it used to be standard to have save anywhere, like most FPS games. If a genre never had save anywhere, obviously the argument isn't to add that feature.

You need to stop using insults to get your point across. It really makes you look like you have no argument and no clue what you're talking about, which may not be the case.

Half-life series: laughable easy as you can just save every feet and people do that. I friend of mine was really proud to have completed both games ( Not sure about the episodes for the second ) on the highest difficulty level

and I gave him a verbal pat on the shoulder. I then caught a glimpse of him playing a level on his laptop and sure enough, he was saving every freaking time he got a kill almost and I was just stunned, he died so often and he just

loaded his last save straight away and kept on running - It was so pathetic, I actually gave the guy credit when all he did was suck and let the game carry him through almost?

Unreal Awakening: I remember watching a guy at the local netcafé play this game shorty after release and the guy was also constantly saving almost at every turn, asked him why, "I just want to get through it :D" - Awesome,

let me complete that game on some insane difficulty level so I can get be among guys like that, oh yeah!

Those are two examples that have been burned into my mind, I know there's loads more examples but they escape me right this second. As I said, extremely simple solution; divide it by the difficulty level you choose and let the

higher levels be based on checkpoints perhaps, everyone's happy. Me completing a game on a high difficulty level is a plethora of things that come into play; I want a challenge, I want the gratification of completing something that is hard

and the more inaccessible the game is, the bigger the gratification. When I know the game is very hard and very testing, something the casual player won't attempt, the completion of the game is so much sweeter.

Just saying "I won't save" removes the gratification, removes all the pride in completing the game because you know any idiot could do it.

Prime example are the Call of Duty series on Veteran - Such an intensive, frustrating and testing experience that I know very in my friends circles to have attempted and thus the gratification for me is that much bigger.

I saw some numbers a long time ago for the "Mile High Club" achievement on the 360 ( Last level on veteran ) and the number was extremely low, even with all the people getting through by watching videos and guides

it was still an intense mission that required skill and luck - One of the best missions ever.

Most of my favourite games are based on checkpoint saves and it enhances the game experience about 2000% and just to say it yet again, divide it up by difficulty level - I don't care what they do on Easy / Normal,

just add a checkpoint system ( or something similar ) on everything above.

No wonder game developer's are struggling in this day and age, not only are games expensive as hell to create but they have to be made so easy to get through, people are done within a day and then they just crave

more, blame the developers for a short game and lack of imagination - Why the hell waste months and months on some of this stuff when people miss half of it. It was bad enough with the health generation crap that

every game suffers.

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You need to stop using insults to get your point across. It really makes you look like you have no argument and no clue what you're talking about, which may not be the case.

The biggest thing here is the keyword: option. Again, if choosing a game save is optional, then it has no bearing on the challenge for those who are better gamers and want that challenge. If they don't use the save, the challenge is still there. It's just like the cheat codes that you can do in games. Up > Down > L > R > A B, or whatever code put in by the developer. I have never once used a cheat code for "god mode" or any other cheat option. It's there for those who want it, but by no means has anyone been forced to use it. In fact, I bet the minority of people actually use cheat codes.

I welcome the "option", not the "mandate" of save spots.

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The New Super Mario Bros only lets you save per castle, weather half way castle, or end of the level castle. How retarded it that? Granted you can shut the lid of the DS and start where you left off, but what if the battery of your DS dies before you open it up again? It is this type of bull**** game saving which pretty much drove me away from gaming and into the world of Emulation.

Most Mario games never let you save until a level is completed and sometimes not at all. It is a game you can pick up and play for a while, put down, and then play again later. I've always seen Mario games as ones you don't really have to "beat".

I recently came across a great PS2 emulator called PCSx2. A while back I acquired the game “God of war” for the physical PS2, but never really played it. I tried playing it a few times but would die before I got close to a spot where I could save. I pretty much stopped playing it and forgot about it.

Its five years old. It wasn't until recently games started allowing for ridiculous save points or free saving. Save points have been a mainstay in video games since the 90's. I don't understand how this correlates to "modern games". In fact, more "modern games" offer exactly what you desire and very few have literal save points. Level checkpoints, auto-saves and free saving is the current norm.

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Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising had an aces save/checkpoint system.

Playing the game in the following modes:

Experienced: No Checkpoints

Hardcore: Mission Checkpoints

Normal: Frequent and Mission Checkpoints

There was not an option to "Start > Save" either (it would save where you last checkpoint in Hardcore/Normal). You cater to the hardcore looking for the ultimate challenge, as well as the novice.

It's too bad that this day and age, people don't want to have options for others. I hate selfishness.

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