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"Bigger than Rapture" doesn't mean the same universe. What Levine meant by that were the literary themes and atmosphere

To be honest, they really shouldn't have called this game Bioshock at all. But the fact that the first Bioshock game sold 7 million units, I'm sure 2K were pressuring Irrational to keep the Bioshock name.

Just imagine the original conversation:

Levine: Hey! We've got an awesome concept for the new game!

2K: Is it a Bioshock game?

Levine: No, but I promise you it'll be better than Bioshock

2K: Hrm..., well, if you call it Bioshock we'll give you 5 years of funding for the project. If you don't call it Bioshock, we'll give you 2 years.

Levine: OK, we'll call it Bioshock.

If there is some sorta deeper connection to the first they won't tell you anyways, and they haven't really went deep into the story other than tell you the main characters name and what he's there for (to find the girl), that's it. But I don't see why, just because it's a different city and it's in the sky not underwater that it's also somehow not in the same bioshock universe. What does a change in local really do anyways other than give the devs the ability to try out new things? Why not call it bioshock when it's going to share the same gameplay elements, though this time they'll have more powers to play with and more ways to upgrade yourself it seems? The second you pick up some funky glowing syringe and inject yourself to get some power it's "bioshock" in my book, end of story.

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If there is some sorta deeper connection to the first they won't tell you anyways, and they haven't really went deep into the story other than tell you the main characters name and what he's there for (to find the girl), that's it. But I don't see why, just because it's a different city and it's in the sky not underwater that it's also somehow not in the same bioshock universe. What does a change in local really do anyways other than give the devs the ability to try out new things? Why not call it bioshock when it's going to share the same gameplay elements, though this time they'll have more powers to play with and more ways to upgrade yourself it seems? The second you pick up some funky glowing syringe and inject yourself to get some power it's "bioshock" in my book, end of story.

But it's not going to have the same gameplay elements.

You're not going to pick up a syringe and inject yourself. As far as they've announced, there will be no adam, eve, big daddies, little sisters, etc

A telekinetic girl will be following you around and you youself will have some telekinetic powers.

It's not in the same universe. It deals with totally different themes (nationalism, colonialism, imperialism) and will present a totally different atmosphere (bright, in the air)

The only "Bioshock" thing about this game is that it's in first person and is rooted in deep literary themes and references

That's just like saying Bioshock is System Shock 3

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But it's not going to have the same gameplay elements.

You're not going to pick up a syringe and inject yourself. As far as they've announced, there will be no adam, eve, big daddies, little sisters, etc

A telekinetic girl will be following you around and you youself will have some telekinetic powers.

It's not in the same universe. It deals with totally different themes (nationalism, colonialism, imperialism) and will present a totally different atmosphere (bright, in the air)

The only "Bioshock" thing about this game is that it's in first person and is rooted in deep literary themes and references

That's just like saying Bioshock is System Shock 3

I haven't seen them say anywhere that it definitely isn't in the same universe, just that it has nothing to do with Bioshock in the sense of story and design, and different themes and a different atmosphere doesn't mean it can't hold the same name or be a spiritual sequel/prequel either.

Look at Shadow of the Colossus,

they never confirmed it being a prequel until a few months after it came out, and you only find out it is till the very last scene of the game.

Though if they have confirmed it definitely isn't, a link to the source wouldn't go a miss.

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I haven't seen them say anywhere that it definitely isn't in the same universe, just that it has nothing to do with Bioshock in the sense of story and design, and different themes and a different atmosphere doesn't mean it can't hold the same name or be a spiritual sequel/prequel either.

Look at Shadow of the Colossus,

they never confirmed it being a prequel until a few months after it came out, and you only find out it is till the very last scene of the game.

Though if they have confirmed it definitely isn't, a link to the source wouldn't go a miss.

Ken Levine neither confirmed nor denied if the two Bioshocks are related in story, I guess that's the big internet debate, huh?

I'm on the side that it's not. And I'd rather have it if they weren't related. I would like to see Bioshock Infinite being a spiritual successor of Bioshock just like Bioshock was the spiritual successor of System Shock.

Following this story, it seems as if Irrational is going for something completely unique for us to experience as players, something more than what is expected from the Bioshock brand. That's why I'm assuming that adding the Bioshock name is more marketing than anything else.

Some quotes to add to the ambiguity:

"For an audience, I totally expect them to be like, 'What? I don't quite understand it,'" Levine said. "'It's a sequel but is it a sequel?' It's a meta-question. I'm comfortable with that." He won't say whether the game is connected to the storyline of those first two BioShocks. "I don't want to think about that," he said. "I don't think it's particularly constructive to have that conversation."
"It wasn't right after BioShock that we determined what we were going to do," Levine said. "We did sort of play around with a bunch of different things. One thing that was quickly apparent to us was that BioShock 2 wasn't the right product for us because of when they wanted it, because the company wanted it to be in Rapture, which makes sense, they wanted a follow-up. As our team, independent of BioShock 2, we had said what we wanted to say about that world as a studio."
"We were really looking to take on a project where we had a basic framework for some things ? look, we had a framework for BioShock as well from a previous game we did [system Shock] ? but also, and I've said this to other people, that there will be no sacred cows. Anything was up for grabs in terms of what would be there and what wouldn't be there."
Levine identifies two qualities that define BioShock Infinite as a BioShock game.

First: "It is set in a place that is both completely strange and fantastical but also strangely grounded and strangely familiar, believable," he said. For the first two BioShocks that location was Rapture a failed underwater city built with Objectivist principles and infused with a 1950s Art Deco design. Infinite's location is the floating city of Columbia, circa 1912, a city populated by proud Americans who view their country as a technologically great, ascendant Caucasian-led God-fearing society. "Fantastical" but "strangely familiar" indeed. Said Levine: "To do another game that felt like that but wasn't called BioShock game would seem dishonest."

Second defining BioShock quality: "The other thing is that when you deal with enemies you have a huge amount of expressability in how you approach a problem set. How I want to play the game is very different from how you're going to play the game." This other quality was a BioShock hallmark. Each enemy encounter in the first two games could be handled with a variety of methods: shooting, hacking, stealth, offensive plasmid (think: magic) powers, deputizing robots, confusing and converting enemies, springing traps, and so on.

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But it's not going to have the same gameplay elements.

You're not going to pick up a syringe and inject yourself. As far as they've announced, there will be no adam, eve, big daddies, little sisters, etc

A telekinetic girl will be following you around and you youself will have some telekinetic powers.

It's not in the same universe. It deals with totally different themes (nationalism, colonialism, imperialism) and will present a totally different atmosphere (bright, in the air)

The only "Bioshock" thing about this game is that it's in first person and is rooted in deep literary themes and references

That's just like saying Bioshock is System Shock 3

Not really. Based on what the previews have said from the gameplay demo, it plays the exact same as the original Bioshock. It may not have certain characters like Big Daddies and the like, but if it has the exact same gameplay, why call it anything else? I mean, I suppose they could've been lame and called it "Airshock" or something like that, but what's the point?

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Not really. Based on what the previews have said from the gameplay demo, it plays the exact same as the original Bioshock. It may not have certain characters like Big Daddies and the like, but if it has the exact same gameplay, why call it anything else? I mean, I suppose they could've been lame and called it "Airshock" or something like that, but what's the point?

From everything I've read, I haven't seen one site yet that says it plays just like the original Bioshock. I've even read that the game is no longer loot-driven, and that they've really changed the ways you use powers. But I am curious to where you've read that it plays exactly like Bioshock, because that contradicts all of the other sites I've read

They haven't showed any gameplay to the public yet, but if it plays exactly like Bioshock, my apologies for providing the wrong information.

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Massiveterra: Examples? Everything I've read has said it has the same feel, even if the circumstances are different. I haven't read any of this stuff about the powers "working" differently. They showed gameplay to the media, but nothing released to the general public yet.

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Far Cry 2

Bioshock Infinite

What next? Tekken 8, a driving simulator.

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Far Cry 2

Bioshock Infinite

What next? Tekken 8, a driving simulator.

Don't compare this to the garbage that was Far Cry 2. That game was made by a separate Ubisoft team instead of Crytek. This is being made by the original (mostly) Bioshock team.

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Don't compare this to the garbage that was Far Cry 2. That game was made by a separate Ubisoft team instead of Crytek. This is being made by the original (mostly) Bioshock team.

Taking the names of, apparently, unrelated predecessors is my point.

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Taking the names of, apparently, unrelated predecessors is my point.

The difference is, IMO, Far Cry 2 played nothing like Far Cry 1. This is more along the lines of Final Fantasy or Command & Conquer.

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Ken Levine neither confirmed nor denied if the two Bioshocks are related in story, I guess that's the big internet debate, huh?

I'm on the side that it's not. And I'd rather have it if they weren't related. I would like to see Bioshock Infinite being a spiritual successor of Bioshock just like Bioshock was the spiritual successor of System Shock.

Following this story, it seems as if Irrational is going for something completely unique for us to experience as players, something more than what is expected from the Bioshock brand. That's why I'm assuming that adding the Bioshock name is more marketing than anything else.

Some quotes to add to the ambiguity:

All those quotes and you missed the one I would have used.

"It would be dishonest to say this is not BioShock,"

I will assume until, otherwise said, that this simply takes place in the same universe just at a different time and location.

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Because it's pretty easy to pick out what's marketing and PR rhetoric from actual substance

It's like you guys want the two games to be connected somehow :rolleyes:

I will assume until, otherwise said, that this simply takes place in the same universe just at a different time and location.

Yes, you pick that one quote and completely miss the entire context of how he's using it.

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Because it's pretty easy to pick out what's marketing and PR rhetoric from actual substance

It's like you guys want the two games to be connected somehow :rolleyes:

I'd prefer that they don't connect them, but honestly, as someone who works in the PR industry, I don't think that's public relations speak. Marketing perhaps in that they want a familiar name for consumers, but it seems to me like Levine legitimately considers this a Bioshock game.

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I honestly don't even know where this conversation is going. I started off the conversation by commenting on the fact that people are saying they take place in the same "universe?" When nothing at all has been stated even close to that at all. Just because Levine says it would be dishonest to call this a Bioshock game? In the context of themes and atmosphere and mystery.

It's like people think I'm not excited about this game because I'm debating that it's not in the same universe.

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I honestly don't even know where this conversation is going. I started off the conversation by commenting on the fact that people are saying they take place in the same "universe?" When nothing at all has been stated even close to that at all. Just because Levine says it would be dishonest to call this a Bioshock game? In the context of themes and atmosphere and mystery.

It's like people think I'm not excited about this game because I'm debating that it's not in the same universe.

No idea where you got that from, but it seems obvious to anyone in the topic you're excited about the game. And I never said they were in the same universe, I said they could be but I'd prefer them not to be; I also said it is a Bioshock game due to gameplay.

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Well a couple pages back, people were saying that this game is connected to the first Bioshock and they're in the same universe, and I was debating that. Dunno how you mixed in LOL

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I'm of the opinion that a game can be in the same universe as another and not have it share everything the first did. What I take from the bit about bioshock being bigger than just Rapture is that there's a whole world out there and just like real life, not every place is the same. Though I am not so quick to say that because of the changes in theme/style/location that the new game can't be in the same universe.

If you want to think they just used Bioshock in the title to help market the game and sell more, that's fine, I'm just not ready to close off the possibility that there is a connection (same universe/world) between the two and that it's not just a cheap marketing trick.

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Like I said, I hope it is in the same world. It's not going to affect your enjoyment if it isn't, but it'll make you smile more if it is when you find random small connections - and name here, a picture there, etc. It'll certainly make things a tiny bit more interesting. There's really no reason why they shouldn't do that, and I'm sure they'd like too if they can (obviously there's not much they can do to link them together anyway outside of random small linking threads)

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Because it's pretty easy to pick out what's marketing and PR rhetoric from actual substance

It's like you guys want the two games to be connected somehow :rolleyes:

Yes, you pick that one quote and completely miss the entire context of how he's using it.

I don't get why you are so against it being set in the same universe, its not even like they have to plaster it about or even mention anything from Bioshock1/2 at all.

But being set in the same "universe" gives those of us that enjoyed the background, technological aspects, and atmosphere of the world they created with the first Bioshock something more to go on, you might not like it, but I would prefer a deeper universe.

Can't wait for the novel based on the first game to come out too, and Ken Levine has had a hand in it too.

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Never liked the Bioshock games and this doesn't appeal.

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Never liked the Bioshock games and this doesn't appeal.

Definitely not for everyone. My old roommate hated Bioshock and Half-Life 2, but loved more action-packed stuff like Halo. I think it's just like movies -- there are critically acclaimed movies, and there are the Hollywood blockbuster movies. Both are good just depending on what kind of experience you want.

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The only "Bioshock" thing about this game is that it's in first person and is rooted in deep literary themes and references

and having special powers with corny names?

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