JTaylor69 Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 Apparently Fallout does not have ladders for the following reason: "We're game development *******," Bethesda's Todd Howard said at a QuakeCon panel on Friday. No really, the engine in Fallout and Elder Scrolls runs into AI problems if ladders are introduced, and the developer just works around them. Full story over here I do admit, this is quite funny in a way. What's your views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Veteran Posted August 15, 2010 Veteran Share Posted August 15, 2010 Edited title for clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LingeringSoul Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Funny, I played that game for over forty hours (probably close to sixty) and I never even noticed that there are no ladders. Looks like the developers made the right choice by leaving them out. AI glitches are a hell of a lot more noticeable than an absence of ladders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raa Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I agree. I totally didn't notice that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Its well known their engine is a massive pile of ****, expecially when it comes to stuff like AI pathfinding. They REALLY need a new engine. There was so much glitchy ai crap in fallout 3, I am not even considering getting new vegas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skulltrail Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Its well known their engine is a massive pile of ****, expecially when it comes to stuff like AI pathfinding. They REALLY need a new engine. There was so much glitchy ai crap in fallout 3, I am not even considering getting new vegas. Although I do agree that Fallout 3 was riddled with AI glitches (and terrain glitches), I wouldn't step as far as not buying New Vegas solely because of that. Fallout 3 was incredible even with the glitches. New Vegas is sure to have some (if not most) of the glitches fixed. If not, the gameplay should be good enough to ignore the glitches. The worst glitch I encountered in F3 was getting stuck in a pile of debris. Unfortunately, I didn't save very recently prior to encountering the glitch so I had to start over from a rather old save. Never happened again though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Candyman Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I agree Fallout 3 was very buggy, yet I didn't encounter a single bug in oblivion? Anyways, I'll pick up and play the hell out of new vegas, even if it is buggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjoswald Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Now that I think about it, I didn't notice any damn ladders either. I wish they'd fix the crashes, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I tried many times to get into Fallout 3 ( PC ) and I was unable to. The engine is so unstable, so glitchy and downright horrible - I had 3 crashes in the first hour I played, eugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jamesyfx Subscriber² Posted August 16, 2010 Subscriber² Share Posted August 16, 2010 I have nothing but praise for Fallout 3, absolutely nothing but. It's always ran perfectly for me, and has been so much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Candyman Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I'll put it this way: My girlfriend LOVES Fallout 3, and is eagerly awaiting New Vegas. Despite crashing once an hour or so, she stayed with it through the entire game and all the DLC content. She doesn't like FPS games at all, and still loved it. Oh ya, there ARE ladders in Fallout 3, but you don't climb up them, they just act as doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey13 Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I have nothing but praise for Fallout 3, absolutely nothing but. It's always ran perfectly for me, and has been so much fun. This was my experience of Fallout and Oblivion (Apart from the gate issue with my GFX card but that was just stupid slowdown.) Although the AI is a bit of a dog in both. Never mind if ladders are involved or not. I don't think Bethesda have ever produced great AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hammond Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Never really noticed until now. Im a massive Morrowind/Oblivion fan, Fallout 3 was fun but the overworld was a bit too bland. I spent hours just wandering around the wastelands discovering all the points of interest but usually there was nothing of interest there, the only cool thing i found was a special gatling laser which was uber powerful. Im looking forward to New Vegas but im more interested in the next Elder Scrolls if they ever make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corris Veteran Posted August 16, 2010 Veteran Share Posted August 16, 2010 As someone pointed out, there are ladders, you just don't climb them as they are used as doors. But still, its not something I've noticed nor care about, so I would label this "under does anyone really care?" Ladders can be a pain in the ass in most games anyway, but they really need to get themselves a new engine, hopefully that is being worked on behind the scenes, or even now that Bethesda/Zenimax own ID, they can just use the Rage engine. I have nothing but praise for Fallout 3, absolutely nothing but. It's always ran perfectly for me, and has been so much fun. Same here, I've played through FO3 4-5 times on the PS3 and I'm going through again now on the 360, and I don't recolect ever having any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 As someone pointed out, there are ladders, you just don't climb them as they are used as doors. But still, its not something I've noticed nor care about, so I would label this "under does anyone really care?" Ladders can be a pain in the ass in most games anyway, but they really need to get themselves a new engine, hopefully that is being worked on behind the scenes, or even now that Bethesda/Zenimax own ID, they can just use the Rage engine. Same here, I've played through FO3 4-5 times on the PS3 and I'm going through again now on the 360, and I don't recolect ever having any problems. Yeah I don't really care too much that theres no ladders, it just serves as one of the many examples that this engine has aged a lot, and not well. A fallout game on the rage engine would be fantastic. I had lots of ai pathing issues in fallout 3, one of my games I happened to not have a backup save, and it was that alien dlc, I got stuck at the end of it, there was a door an npc had to open. All the NPC just ran around in circles in front of the door no matter what and it ****ed my whole game. I've seen a lot of crap like that happen in fallout 3. And its not just pathing the engine does poorly. Characters have this obnoxious glide-walk and animations are all around HORRIBLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted August 16, 2010 Veteran Share Posted August 16, 2010 AI Pathing and collision detection in the Fallout engine (name escapes me at the moment) is quite terrible, I've had to use "noclip" multiple times to get myself out of the world geometry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Nothing a staircase or ramp of dirt can't cure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisan Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Never got stuck in FO3 geometry personally. But their engine could use some major fixes. I did a school project in FO3 earlier this year and we spent a few hours trying to figure out why everything floated as soon as the player grabbed something off a shelf. Turns out it was an old bug in the physics engine that went back all the way into Oblivion and STILL isn't fixed. Hopefully New Vegas fixes bugs like that.....not major to the gameplay, but annoying to see things float up into the air a few inches when you bump a table. That being said, Ladders and AI are not the problem, their engine is the problem. All it takes is an engine that properly handles AI, and ladders are no longer a problem. If you tell the AI where a ladder is and properly heightmap the areas, the AI should be able to move up and down that ladder without issue, but only if it needs to go up or down the ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted August 16, 2010 Veteran Share Posted August 16, 2010 (edited) we spent a few hours trying to figure out why everything floated as soon as the player grabbed something off a shelf. Turns out it was an old bug in the physics engine that went back all the way into Oblivion and STILL isn't fixed. Yup I remember noticing that back in 2006 when Oblivion came out.I myself have quite a few gripes with Bethesda's TESIV engine, in addition to this: - animations looks completely unnatural - faces are ugly. You can see behind eyeballs from time to time, expressions are unconvincing... With the conversation system forcing you to stare at them for hours, the problem is greatly magnified. - lighting on skin is terrible. All skin looks a bit shiny and translucent, like people were made out of latex. It's disgusting. - AI has always been glitchy. The "Radiant AI" in Oblivion lead to ridiculous behaviors; conversations should really have been scripted - The dialogue system... isn't really a dialogue system. You choose from a vague item list and then the guy starts blabbing until his script ends. Then you can choose another item completely. - The way geometry constantly pops in at a relatively short distance is very distracting to say the least. - Distant landscape looks like peasoup ... and probably more... in any case all these factors lead to Oblivion being the least immersive RPG I have ever played, and on top of that it was a bland one in terms of story, lore etc. I haven't touched Fallout 3 because I saw it was based on the same technology and the art done by the same guys. I do have a glimmer of hope for New Vegas since it's developed by Obsidian and I have deep respect for these guys (former Black Isle members ! :heart: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamp0 Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 @DR Aisk: Fallout3 is one of the best games I have ever played. it undoubtedly has issue, but it's immersion, atmosphere and art direction are fantastic and forme out weight the technical issues. I rarely noticed popups and the game could look very impressive if only due to it's scale and atmosphere. I do hope that Fallout4 gets the engine it deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted August 16, 2010 Veteran Share Posted August 16, 2010 the Fallout engine (name escapes me at the moment)It's a modified version of Gamebryo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts