Buying used games? Developers, publishers don't care about you


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Game developers and publishers have complained about the sales of used games for a long time. It's a contentious topic: gamers want to be able to buy and sell their games as they see fit?they bought them, after all?and developers realize the same game is often sold multiple times without any of the additional revenue generated going to those who made the game. GameStop's entire business model rests on buying and selling used games.

Cory Ledesma is THQ's creative director for wrestling games, and his ambivalence about the feelings of those who buy used games has caused this topic to flare up yet again. He has a point, though: why should anyone care about how used-game customers feel?

"We hope people understand that when the game's bought used we get cheated," Ledesma told CVG in a recent interview, defending the one-time use code included in new copies of THQ's upcoming wrestling title allowing online play. "I don't think anyone wants that, so in order for us to make strong, high-quality WWE games we need loyal fans that are interested in purchasing the game. We want to award those fans with additional content."

Online play costs very real money to implement and support. Resales of a game only provides revenue to the retailer, with the publisher stuck paying the bills for the online features everyone uses.

"In a literal way, when you purchase a game used, you are not a customer of theirs," Penny Arcade's Jerry Holkins wrote today. "If I am purchasing games in order to reward their creators, and to ensure that more of these ingenious contraptions are produced, I honestly can't figure out how buying a used game was any better than piracy. From the the perspective of a developer, they are almost certainly synonymous."

That's a bold statement, as gamers hate to be called pirates?and they will pirate your game in retaliation for being called pirates?but in both cases, the people behind the game aren't making any money from the sale. If you take the game online you're using their time and money. So where's the argument that developers need to keep these people happy?

Games don't degrade with age

"What other customers expect a used product be be identical to a new product?" a Penny Arcade reader wrote. "Buying a used car comes with increased wear (and thus decreased function). Buying a used book means you are risking page damage or a broken binding. Buying anything used means that you get a cheaper price for decreased function or increased risk.... if you know the game wont have multiplayer used, you can adjust what you are willing to spend on it, the same way you might offer a few hundred dollar less for a used motorcycle due to rust."

Video games are different than most other used products, as the quality of the product doesn't decrease with age; the disc either works or it doesn't. Unlike the movie (which has home video) and music (touring and merchandise) industries, there are no secondary markets for games that publishers can tap into. Publishers and developers have one chance to make their money back with a game, and as long as online support is offered they have many chances to spend money on those playing that game. "Unlike the movies, we do not have a theater release. That boxed copy on the shelf (or digital download) is our only means of revenue generation. This is why we love digital delivery. There are no used games on Steam," another developer wrote to Penny Arcade. I know you guys catch a ton of s**t for talking about topics like this, but if even a small percentage of your readers walk away a little more educated on the subject then it is a big win for everyone (except gamestop)." Even Sony is looking into adding one-time use codes for its games.

Complain all you want: if you buy used games regularly, you're simply not the market anyone but GameStop cares about.

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EA, THQ, Ubisoft and Sony :no:

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Would this apply to buying used cars? Used clothes? Used homes?

We should just buy everything new so that the original maker gets a full sale every time?

Incredible greed if you ask me.

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Why would they care about you? You aren't their customer, you're *insert store selling used games* customer.

Its not greed, its simple business logic. You don't care enough to to purchase a game in a way that the developer of said game gets any money from you (they don't get a dime out of your enjoyment of it), so they don't care about you.

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Would this apply to buying used cars? Used clothes? Used homes?

We should just buy everything new so that the original maker gets a full sale every time?

Incredible greed if you ask me.

This has been explained about a million times.

1. Cars lose their value over time, due to wear on parts etc

2. Clothes also get worn out, damaged

3. Used house? wtf? The housing market doesn't change on whether a house is used or not lol, well maybe on the condition it is in.

With software, when you buy a game you aren't buying the game. You're buying a LICENSE to use the game. And software doesn't get worn out after a while, a game from 10 years ago is still in the exact same quality like it was when its new. Sure there may be less people playing it, but the price of games usually drops significantly after a while (BC2 is now only $30 after like 4 months and it is a very popular game).

Also when you're buying a used game you're paying what? $15-20 as opposed to the $60 for a new game? Is $10 more really going to hurt you?

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Then wouldn't Gamefly be piracy by the Penny arcade guy's definition?

With some games it is impossible to buy a new game, ie a N64 game that isn't on Nintendo's Virtual console. Same with Dreamcast games as well. If you're being called a pirate where you are doing no harm you might as well just pirate the game and not pay for it. Why commit fake piracy, when you can commit the real kind and get away with it easier?

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Then wouldn't Gamefly be piracy by the Penny arcade guy's definition?

With some games it is impossible to buy a new game, ie a N64 game that isn't on Nintendo's Virtual console. Same with Dreamcast games as well. If you're being called a pirate where you are doing no harm you might as well just pirate the game and not pay for it. Why commit fake piracy, when you can commit the real kind and get away with it easier?

On your first point, I'd be willing to bet Gamefly pays out money to devs to be able to run the service.

On your second, well, way to miss the point entirely.

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Cars may lose their value over time but after a game has been developed you can distribute as many copies as you want with no further production cost.

Also I disagree that games don't lose value over time. Most older titles don't live up to current standards and many are hard to get to work on modern hardware.

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This has been explained about a million times.

1. Cars lose their value over time, due to wear on parts etc

2. Clothes also get worn out, damaged

Games lose their value over time due to : Lack of players playing said game, wear on the cartridge/cd/lack of the ability to ability to play on the servers that the game was created to play on../lack of user created content or just because they're out dated and look like crap compared to modern newer games AND games can get worn out and damaged over time..

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This is why we love digital delivery. There are no used games on Steam

If digital delivery was the only way to get the game I would get if from a torrent as I will never pay for any digital download period!

As for new games I would never buy them at the $60.00+ price point they are selling for so they would not get my money until the game comes

down to $20-$30 dollars max witch usually means buying used until the game developers get this I will keep buying used or getting from a torrent.

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Games lose their value over time due to : Lack of players, wear on the cartridge/cd/lack of the ability to ability to play on the servers that the game was created to play on../lack of user created content AND games can get worn out and damaged over time..

Except the game ITSELF hasn't degraded in quality, it's still the exact same game as it was however long ago. The media it is on may have, and that costs what? 10 cents?

And like I already pointed out, publishers take into account retail value and lower their game prices accordingly as time goes by. Whether or not your local retailer does this, is a different matter.

Take bad company 2 again. First released at $60. 2 months later it became $40. Currently, it's $30 (depending on where you buy it from).

If digital delivery was the only way to get the game I would get if from a torrent as I will never pay for any digital download period!

And why? The devs didn't suddenly start working for free because the game is digital download. The distribution method didn't (server costs etc).

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Except the game ITSELF hasn't degraded in quality, it's still the exact same game as it was however long ago. The media it is on may have, and that costs what? 10 cents?

I beg to differ.

They're the exact same game, but the quality has gotten better.. (in most cases anyway :laugh:) hasn't it?

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This has been explained about a million times.

1. Cars lose their value over time, due to wear on parts etc

2. Clothes also get worn out, damaged

3. Used house? wtf? The housing market doesn't change on whether a house is used or not lol, well maybe on the condition it is in.

With software, when you buy a game you aren't buying the game. You're buying a LICENSE to use the game. And software doesn't get worn out after a while, a game from 10 years ago is still in the exact same quality like it was when its new. Sure there may be less people playing it, but the price of games usually drops significantly after a while (BC2 is now only $30 after like 4 months and it is a very popular game).

Also when you're buying a used game you're paying what? $15-20 as opposed to the $60 for a new game? Is $10 more really going to hurt you?

Your analogy is a joke right? A lot of games are played out after a few hrs. Then what is it good for a coaster? How about games you own but is so old you cant play them on newer systems?

I get more hours of wear from my clothes than i do a video game for the same price. Games lose there value over time because the technology becomes dated.

15-20 dollars plus 10 is 60? My math must be rusty.

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On your second, well, way to miss the point entirely.

What I was trying to say is, Where is the line that says buying this game used isn't priacy, but buying this other game is.

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I beg to differ.

They're the exact same game, but the quality has gotten better.. (in most cases anyway :laugh:) hasn't it?

Thats a completely different matter. And you forget to take into account engine improvements ;)

A lot of games are played out after a few hrs. Then what is it good for a coaster? How about games you own but is so old you cant play them on newer systems?

Then go sell it? Nobody says you cannot, devs may get ****y but theres nothing legally stopping you from doing so. If you sell a game to gamestop, you're essentially giving them free profit and thats what game devs have a problem with.

But when you're buying a used game you're buying essentially a new game. The game hasn't worn out, if you can't understand that then go back to school.

15-20 dollars plus 10 is 60? My math must be rusty.

No. But they plan to charge $10 to play used games online. Hence $15-20 + 10.

It's still almost half the price of a new game, and its essentially the same game.

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Except the game ITSELF hasn't degraded in quality, it's still the exact same game as it was however long ago. The media it is on may have, and that costs what? 10 cents?

I'll counter this again:

You're telling me that Oregon Trail for the Apple 2 hasn't degraded at all over time because it was released in 1971, and people can still play IF they can find a disc, that... wait..

How will you find a disc that hasn't degraded from 1971?

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You're telling me that Oregon Trail for the Apple 2 hasn't degraded at all over time because it was released in 1971, and people can still play IF they can find a disc, that... wait..

How will you find a disc that hasn't degraded from 1971?

As far as I can tell, game studios aren't suing people who buy used games right? They may get ****ed but they plan to charge you $10 extra (which like I said is still a lot cheaper than buying a new game).

Nobody here is saying you should go to jail for buying a new game, or that you should pay full price (well maybe some devs are but then w/e to them).

And I'm going to say this again. The GAME hasn't degraded in quality. The MEDIA has. 2 different things.

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Thats a completely different matter. And you forget to take into account engine improvements ;)

You said games don't degrade.

Games.. DO degrade.

Degrade: Reduce in worth or character

When Oregon Trail first came out .. I'll bet you it was pretty damn expensive.

I'll bet you that you'd be hard pressed to find SOMEONE, or hell, ANYONE to pay for a mint condition copy of Oregon Trail for the Apple 2 what it was worth when it first came out.

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You said games don't degrade.

Games.. DO degrade.

Degrade: Reduce in worth or character

When Oregon Trail first came out .. I'll bet you it was pretty damn expensive.

I'll bet you that you'd be hard pressed to find SOMEONE, or hell, ANYONE to pay for a mint condition copy of Oregon Trail for the Apple 2 what it was worth when it first came out.

That's not a game issue, that's a supply and demand issue. MSRP's on games go down over time because demand goes down, not because they somehow degrade. That Oregon Trail from 1971 is the same game now as it was then. Its not a different game just because time has passed. Cars and clothes and homes become different. They get torn, dented, and dirtied. Games don't do **** over time except be the exact same thing.

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You said games don't degrade.

Games.. DO degrade.

Degrade: Reduce in worth or character

When Oregon Trail first came out .. I'll bet you it was pretty damn expensive.

I'll bet you that you'd be hard pressed to find SOMEONE, or hell, ANYONE to pay for a mint condition copy of Oregon Trail for the Apple 2 what it was worth when it first came out.

You still don't get it. Yes games degrade in value, but like I've already said 2 times so far publishers reduce their prices to match that since demand has gone down, time has gone, new games coming out etc.

There are people, however, who sell games just after they finished playing them when there has been no real loss of value. Gamestop then resells them for like $20, pretty much screwing over publishers since the person who buys it is getting the full game, with full online play, while the game is still popular, in demand and played by a lot of people. So they decided to add $10 to that so they get some cut. And like I've said already, paying that extra $10 is nothing compared to the price of buying it new.

Give the game 4 months or more, and its often just better to buy it new.

Bad Company 2:

Gamestop used: $34.99

Gamestop new: $38.99

Steam new: $29.99

Oblivion:

Gamestop used: $14.99 -> $24.99 (GOTY)

Steam new: $19.99 (GOTY) -> $24.99 (Deluxe edition)

---

And I'm someone who supports piracy..which by pretty much half the people here should mean I refuse to pay for anything and I completely oppose game companies charging for anything right? :rolleyes:

That's not a game issue, that's a supply and demand issue. MSRP's on games go down over time because demand goes down, not because they somehow degrade. That Oregon Trail from 1971 is the same game now as it was then. Its not a different game just because time has passed. Cars and clothes and homes become different. They get torn, dented, and dirtied. Games don't do **** over time except be the exact same thing.

Wow someone else here understands. Amazing.

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That's not a game issue, that's a supply and demand issue. MSRP's on games go down over time because demand goes down, not because they somehow degrade. That Oregon Trail from 1971 is the same game now as it was then. Its not a different game just because time has passed. Cars and clothes and homes become different. They get torn, dented, and dirtied. Games don't do **** over time except be the exact same thing.

Ok here ya go:

EQ 1 is the exact same game it was when it came out, albiet the patches and etc.

You can still buy AND play it regularly.

http://store.steampo....com/app/24130/

Yet, because of the lack of people playing,.. and the way it looks dated, you could say, it's degraded over time.

There is no "supply and demand" issue here.

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I'll counter this again:

You're telling me that Oregon Trail for the Apple 2 hasn't degraded at all over time because it was released in 1971, and people can still play IF they can find a disc, that... wait..

How will you find a disc that hasn't degraded from 1971?

I think you're missing the point of his statement, he is saying that the GAME hasn't degraded. It is still the same code that was written all those years ago. Yes the media it is stored on can and most likely will have degraded. But the game you play is exactly the same game as when it was originally released.

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Yet, because of the lack of people playing,.. and the way it looks dated, you could say, it's degraded over time

Lack of people playing might change your experience of the game, but it doesn't change the game itself. A game looking dated has nothing to do with degredation. That's just personal preference. Its looks the same now as it did when it was released, hence no degredation.

Not rocket science dude.

Not to mention if a lack of people playing is going to be an issue for you, you shouldn't buy the game at all. Also, if you're worried about physical media degredation, you shouldn't be buying used games as their physical media is, by default, already more degraded than their new counterpart.

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