Valve Talks PS3 Mistakes, Xbox 360 Frustrations


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Speaking to PC Gamer in an interview published as part of aspecial week of Valve coverage, members of the Half-Life developer have been openly discussing mistakes made by the studio.

"PS3, so far," offered project manager Erik Johnson. "The way we've dealt with those customers so far, and the product that they have. And the lack of updates on the 360, for TF2, is also a total failure. Those are the ones that sting the worst because it got all the way through to customers. It's like a bug. If you fix a bug before it ever ships, it's pretty cheap. If you ship it and then fix it, it's really expensive. Those ones are really bad."

Valve boss Gabe Newell said: "That's why we're really happy with the current situation with the PS3? We're solving it now in a way that is going to work for our customers, rather than assuming something is going to emerge later that will allow us to fix this."

Referring to Xbox, Newell said he's disappointed Microsoft doesn't allow developers to update their products more regularly.

"We thought that there would be something that would emerge, because we figured it was a sort of untenable? Oh yeah, we understand that these are the rules now, but it's such a train wreck that something will have to change."

Speaking recently about plans to bring the Steamworks development suite to PS3, which will allow for auto updates to its titles among other features, Johnson praised the open platform nature of Sony's console, while also hinting at frustration over Microsoft's more closed approach to Xbox 360.

"Part of the reason the PS3 project is so exciting to us is because fundamentally Sony views the PS3 as a very open platform for developers and that's kind of what we feel like," he told CVG. "It is better for developers but more importantly it's better for customers to have as many choices of software to run on whatever device they have. Having Steam on that platform is incredibly valuable to us. In a lot of ways that is the way we define a customer having a good experience because it's the way that we keep talking to that customer over time.

"We think customers would like [steam on Xbox 360]. We'd love to try that," although he added that the decision is "not up to us".

Source: http://www.next-gen.biz/news/valve-talks-ps3-mistakes-xbox-360-frustrations

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So he's confirmed some steam like app / functions is coming to the PS3.

Will have to admit this, he says what's on his mind at the time. Coming from hating the PS3 to liking that development aspect over the xbox 360.

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So he's confirmed some steam like app / functions is coming to the PS3.

Was confirmed at E3 along with Portal 2

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Referring to Xbox, Newell said he's disappointed Microsoft doesn't allow developers to update their products more regularly.

and that's bad because? I don't want games to throw updates every time I start my Xbox. I also don't see a point of porting Steam to Xbox 360. It has one store already and that's enough. No comments on PS3 side since I don't know how it works in that respect.

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Referring to Xbox, Newell said he's disappointed Microsoft doesn't allow developers to update their products more regularly.

Very poorly worded there. You can update as much as you like, even GOW2 has like 6 or 7 patches now.

What your intentions are with those patches is another matter. i.e free dlc.

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Very poorly worded there. You can update as much as you like, even GOW2 has like 6 or 7 patches now.

What your intentions are with those patches is another matter. i.e free dlc.

Yeah, we all know valve give out lots of free content/maps and MS don't seem to like an abundance of free DLC :p

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Very poorly worded there. You can update as much as you like, even GOW2 has like 6 or 7 patches now.

What your intentions are with those patches is another matter. i.e free dlc.

So, devs can patch as much as they see fit but as long as they don't add content Microsoft will allow it to pass for free?

Considering the amount of content TF2 got you would probably be paying for a whole a new game.

I hope Valve release TF2 again on consoles or give a shot on the PS3 with all the content. Even make it download only.

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Yeah, we all know valve give out lots of free content/maps and MS don't seem to like an abundance of free DLC :p

You've hit the nail on the head. Valve is a special case, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Valve suits the more open PS3 platform given that they like giving away DLC. For most other developers/publishers this isn't an issue.

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Valve boss Gabe Newell has called his company's assumptions over Xbox Live "such a train wreck".

Speaking to our colleagues at PC Gamer in its recently-published interview, Newell said one of Valve's failures over the years was to assume that Microsoft would improve Xbox Live so it could update its games regularly for free. When asked if its mistake on Xbox Live was to assume Microsoft would let Valve update its games more often, Newell said:

"We thought that there would be something that would emerge, because we figured it was a sort of untenable... Oh yeah, we understand that these are the rules now, but it's such a train wreck that something will have to change. That's why we're really happy with the current situation with the PS3," he said. "We're solving it now in a way that is going to work for our customers, rather than assuming something is going to emerge later that will allow us to fix this."

Valve told CVG last month that it'd love to put its Steamworks dev suite on Xbox Live, but Microsoft seemingly isn't budging.

Full Article here.

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Some of you make it sound like other devs don't give out free DLC at all. I don't think that's the case. Again, and I asked this in another thread, but where in the Live rules or w/e does it say you "have to" charge for your DLC?

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Valve dissing the next big online game service competitor to their steam, who would have thought! I'm almost surprised!!! You know this is just them trying to push and extend Steam to consoles and expand their business right? It's PR at it's best you could say, or worst, depends how you look at it.

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This time last year he was hating on the PS3...I love valve but I think they need to stay shut on the console situation now before they lose credibility

He was hating on the PS3 for development difficulties, that is something Valve can improve themselves by spending more money into learning more about the system. He is hating on Xbox for its updating methods which (I assume) makes Valve pay to release updates OR makes Valve charge players for the updates (like DLC....but I do not have an Xbox so I am not entirely sure how the update system works on either end).

Both of those are NOT something Valve can work to improve on their own. They CAN improve their development methods on their end to make PS3 development easier/more profitable for themselves. They CANNOT improve the Xbox Live system to make updates easier for them to release.

So yes, Valve seems to like to complain, originally they complained about their laziness, now they are complaining about a latent issue in the Xbox Live system that they cannot work around period unless MS changes it.

EDIT: And no Xbox Live is not a competitor to Steam, Xbox Live does not work on the PC and Steam does not work on the Xbox.

If anything, Valve has the right to bash MS for Xbox Live, they have been doing digital distribution of mass games FAR longer than MS has, I think Valve has MS beat in terms of experience in this area.

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Valve told CVG last month that it'd love to put its Steamworks dev suite on Xbox Livemag-glass_10x10.gif, but Microsoft seemingly isn't budging.

Nor will they ever after this. Seriously, bashing them for not budging is not going to get Valve anywhere. Keep them locked out MS!

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He was hating on the PS3 for development difficulties, that is something Valve can improve themselves by spending more money into learning more about the system. He is hating on Xbox for its updating methods which (I assume) makes Valve pay to release updates OR makes Valve charge players for the updates (like DLC....but I do not have an Xbox so I am not entirely sure how the update system works on either end).

Both of those are NOT something Valve can work to improve on their own. They CAN improve their development methods on their end to make PS3 development easier/more profitable for themselves. They CANNOT improve the Xbox Live system to make updates easier for them to release.

So yes, Valve seems to like to complain, originally they complained about their laziness, now they are complaining about a latent issue in the Xbox Live system that they cannot work around period unless MS changes it.

They worked around the PS3's update system, but then Sony bent over and let them walk right in and do their own thing because they want any games they can get out of it. I doubt, and MS has no need to, the same will happen on Live. Live doesn't need steam integration and so on.

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Some of you make it sound like other devs don't give out free DLC at all. I don't think that's the case. Again, and I asked this in another thread, but where in the Live rules or w/e does it say you "have to" charge for your DLC?

There was something a while back where developers came out and basically said "we wanted to give you this free but MS won't let us" I don't remember specifics but MS do have control over DLC pricing it seems.

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MS should just keep adding good new services/features to live and totally ignore Valve. If they want to make money from the 360 they'll just put up with Live as it is and deal with it, if not they're free to stick to the PC and now PS3.

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Valve boss Gabe Newell said: "That's why we're really happy with the current situation with the PS3? We're solving it now in a way that is going to work for our customers, rather than assuming something is going to emerge later that will allow us to fix this

Translates to ... we were not going to support the ps3 but they paid us millions so now we have to speak highly of them. PS3 ROCKS!!!

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MS should just keep adding good new services/features to live and totally ignore Valve. If they want to make money from the 360 they'll just put up with Live as it is and deal with it, if not they're free to stick to the PC and now PS3.

Yeah no ****. For how relatively few games they put out they sure want Microsoft to change to their whim without regard for anyone else. We've got other developers and publishers putting out many more games than Valve does who don't seem to be taking issue with the service.

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Translates to ... we were not going to support the ps3 but they paid us millions so now we have to speak highly of them. PS3 ROCKS!!!

Microsoft isn't innocent of this as well but this case was just unique (and rather funny) because of the outspoken nature of Valve against the PS3 initially.

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They worked around the PS3's update system, but then Sony bent over and let them walk right in and do their own thing because they want any games they can get out of it. I doubt, and MS has no need to, the same will happen on Live. Live doesn't need steam integration and so on.

It doesn't need it, but Valve IMO pushes out updates far more often or with much more content then any other developer I know of. And considering MS wants to charge Valve to push updates out, its no wonder Valve is pushing to get Steam onto Live. If MS would just change its Live model to not charge developers to push out updates for their own customers, then Valve would be much happier.

The problem isn't how Valve wants to do updates, the problem is MS is trying to tell them how to do updates.

MS should just keep adding good new services/features to live and totally ignore Valve. If they want to make money from the 360 they'll just put up with Live as it is and deal with it, if not they're free to stick to the PC and now PS3.

The problem is MS (from what I understand) charges companies to push updates out on Live, Valve is a company that likes to keep its customers happy, MS is standing in the way of Valve doing that on the Xbox, therefore Valve is trying to change how MS handles updates.

So, feel free to keep putting up with MS blocking developers from giving you free content, I think I will simply stay with the PS3 and PC where developers can, and still do, give content updates at no cost.

Someone mentioned Valve hardly puts out any games, true, but compare the number of content updates Valve puts out for their multiplayer games. Compare that to ever other game available and you will see why Valve is pushing MS to change its game update system. Valve has to put up with MS's BS on updating the game MUCH more often than any other company out there, despite the fewer number of game releases.

Basically it comes down to Valve being unable to fully support Xbox players like they do their PC users. Look at L4D, with the second DLC they released it for free to PC users, but they had to charge Xbox users, most likely due to MS fees. In short, if it wasn't for MS update system, Valve would be able to give you console players more content without charging you for it.

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It would be great if people would realise that Steamworks is not Steam, they are not trying to set up a console version of Steam to sell their own games and content separately from say the Playstation Store.

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