That is it. I am now officially declaring war on Windows XP.

[nub]

Sorry Frylock, but you're falling under Fanboy. If you stop spouting random garbage I might reconsider.

The operating system is not a fault here. As you stated, the virus was caught on your computer because of MSE. MSE is not included in windows 7 nor is it exclusive to windows 7. If MSE was installed on xp it would have caught it as well.

Norton is a horrible AV and student accounts shouldn't have admin privileges. Under these two conditions, win7 is just as vulnerable as xp. The fault lies with the IT department for sucking.

[ncoday]

I know you're not, but XP is just so inherently insecure, and no matter the AV running on it, can be easily over come. It is very unfortunate that people still want to run it, despite this fact, only to save a couple of bucks which most likely they will spend trying to clean up an infection regardless.

Windows Vista upped the security features which made it even more difficult for malware to make it onto the system, Windows 7 upped the ante by giving admins the power to remove IE from the system completely and install a more secure browser.

Now I know that if the user really wants to run something, regardless of what the program does, the OS will run it. But at least Vista/7 aren't as open as XP is to this stuff.

You could just as easily make a Windows 7 machine just as insecure, it is not hard when you have idiots for IT Admins.

[farmeunit]

I am not a Windows 7 fanboy. I simply have stated that XP needs to go. There are no more excuses why it needs to remain around anymore, financial reasons included. The operating system is causing users more headaches than upgrading to a modern OS would.

It is time leaders everywhere to forcefully push ahead with upgrading, and put XP once and for all in the trash where it belongs, at all costs.

How can financial reasons not be legitimate? I work a school and they're slashing budgets all over. We have other priorities. We need new intercom, phone, and surveillance systems. Luckily we got newer machines from some government agencies or we would still have 12 year old machine around. I plan on trying to push Windows 7 into production school wide next year just from a security standpoint, but it's all about the money.

And you're not talking just about software costs. You have hardware, training, compatibility issues, etc. They all add on costs that you can't see. There are headaches involved with upgrading to modern OSes also.

[CrossCheck]

it would be cheaper for these businesses to shell out the $249 per technet subs and get a few of em to upgrade their systems. thats how i upgraded all my sytems in my house. schools could prolly get a killer deal from MS just to upgrade because of them being an educational institution.

[farmeunit]

it would be cheaper for these businesses to shell out the $249 per technet subs and get a few of em to upgrade their systems. thats how i upgraded all my sytems in my house. schools could prolly get a killer deal from MS just to upgrade because of them being an educational institution.

Technet subs are meant for upgrade businesses. It's for testing/development technically. Just because you can, doesn't make it correct.

We do get a good deal at about $60/license for Win7 Pro, but when you're talking about 200 machines, that's $12,000. That's what my budget is for a whole year. Along internet connection alone is about $7800, $2000/yr for Novell/Zenworks SLA, $2000 for content filtering/spam/av/etc.. It's not about not wanting or willing to upgrade. It's about having the ability to upgrade. When I started there, the network had been neglected from a hardware standpoint, so I've been working on that and we are in "fairly" good shape. But we are lacking in surveillance, phone/intercom system, and server infrastructure. From a safety standpoint alone, we need to worry about those first before OS upgrade. Even if we had the money, which we don't.

[Frylock86]

You could just as easily make a Windows 7 machine just as insecure, it is not hard when you have idiots for IT Admins.

Maybe, but even out of the box newer Windows versions are more secure than these XP machines we have.

And I know people are poor, but there are other options available that can be done on the cheap to upgrade to a newer OS (Linux for example). But if people continue to cling onto XP, all this malware going around still has an excellent attack surface to grow. Call me all you want, but allowing people to continue to use XP, does nothing but promote the spread of malware, that is all XP is good for today.

[sw1tch..]

I work for a large enterprise business with over 6000 desktops that still run Windows XP. To be honest they are pretty secure and at this point we can't upgrade to Windows 7 due to several line of business applications that run on XP and at this point are not compatible with Windows 7. Furthermore the time and cost implications to migrate over 6000 desktops to a new platform is very large. Applications need to be tested and a strong SOE needs to be developed to ensure that the business can continue to operate at its current capacity.

We have a secure environment and use a lot of different technologies to keep it this way. The issue is not the OS, it is the admins you have looking after it. A system is only as secure as you make it regardless of the OS.

For home users it is a no brainer but when you have to consider business requirements it is a different ball game.

[JoeyF]

it would be cheaper for these businesses to shell out the $249 per technet subs and get a few of em to upgrade their systems. thats how i upgraded all my sytems in my house. schools could prolly get a killer deal from MS just to upgrade because of them being an educational institution.

Schools do get an educational discount, but it's nowhere near killer. I work as a tech for a large school district, with close to 3,000 computers deployed between our schools. With our educational discount and volume licensing prices, it's still $52.00 a machine to upgrade. So for our district to upgrade to Windows 7, it would be $156,000 just for the licenses alone. And that's only a fraction of the expense:

- We would have to re-train all our users how to use Windows 7 (this isn't a situation where you can say "it's close enough" or "they can figure it out" - you need to train them).

- Most software installed on our computers is not site-licensed, so if we reimage all our computers, someone would have to go around and reinstall everything.

- Not all of our GPOs would work with Windows 7, so someone would have to fix them.

- Not all the software we have is compatible with Windows 7, so it'd either have to be upgraded or replaced.

- All our computer classes use textbooks for Windows XP, so we'd have to replace all our computer textbooks and rewrite the curriculum.

So for a school district the size of mine to upgrade from XP to 7, it could easily cost upwards of a half million dollars between licensing, time spent, training sessions, etc. This is in a time when schools are facing very heavy budget cuts, being forced to lay off staff, etc.

XP's still gonna be around for a long time. It's not going anywhere anytime soon. For a school or business to just blunt upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7, it's just a horrible idea.

[soldier1st]

every new OS claims to be more secure at first then as time passes it will become old and insecure and then comes along a new os claiming the same as the previous OS and the cycle will continue and you can make a new os insecure if you turn off the new security features. the IT dept that manages those XP pc's that got infected need to do there job properly and lock XP down as to minimize the chances of it getting infected. also business users are slower at change than a consumer as don't forget those business users as running software that manages what they do and if they want to upgrade then that means 1: downtime:2 testing:3 cost which for most businesses is simply to much as they manage more than 1 pc, some even have 1000 pc's and thats a huge cost to change them. a consumer is not really running business related software so they can afford downtime and cost but of course there is testing. i know XP needs to die n all but you can't simply pull the plug as your users would be very ticked off but you could suggest it to them and help them along but a forced change is not a good idea. not unless the user or business is willing to take the risk and hope for the best. i still have XP users who use software that can or can't be run on anything higher than xp and they prefer the enviroment but of course when they buy a new PC it is there choice of what OS to use and if they choose XP or anything than that's there choice and the consiquences of using something that old on a new os and hardware which i would disagree but thats me i am not the one who will be using it so i have no control.

[nub]

Maybe, but even out of the box newer Windows versions are more secure than these XP machines we have.

And I know people are poor, but there are other options available that can be done on the cheap to upgrade to a newer OS (Linux for example). But if people continue to cling onto XP, all this malware going around still has an excellent attack surface to grow. Call me all you want, but allowing people to continue to use XP, does nothing but promote the spread of malware, that is all XP is good for today.

You regard Windows 7 way too highly. Its not all that great, seriously. The risk of malware on windows 7 is virtually the same as xp (with updates). The biggest security improvement included in windows 7 is not having IE6. (IE6 was a security nightmare, visit the wrong site, BAM entire computer ****ed.)

Linux would NOT work and would probably cost even more to switch to linux.

No programs run under linux.

Alternatives would have to be found, bought, or developed.

That huge amount of time and money invested right there.

The likelihood if getting the same setup under linux is very slim.

People wouldn't know how to use linux.

Its not very user friendly.

You would have to teach people how to use it.

More time and money wasted.

There is also the issue of certain hardware not being compatible with Windows 7. My dad tried to install windows 7 on an older machine, the thing stopped booting after installing the video drivers. I have a pretty cheap laptop that used an older ATI mobile video chipset, it doesn't run well under Win7. (Won't wake from sleep, won't wake from hibernate if plugged in)

Then there is also the issue of program compatibility. Windows 7 is actually pretty good about this and most programs made to run under xp run fine in Windows 7, but there are always exceptions to these kinds of things.

Eventually computers WILL be switched over to Windows 7 (most likely when new hardware is bought) but, its not going to happen over night.

Its just not sensible in anyway to force a wide-scale upgrade (especially because of non-existent issues with the OS).

My suggestion is to stop buying into Microsoft propaganda and realize Windows 7 isn't some unflawable beast forged in the depths of Redmond.

Windows 7 is not secure. Windows Xp is not secure.

Both operating systems are only as secure as the user allows them to be.

And in this case, it seems the IT department allowed the users to allow the OS to not be secure.

TBH, I find you incredibly ignorant.

[Frylock86]

Basically what I am trying to say is we can't keep stagnating with updating technology. XP has been around for 10 years and is being picked to shreds by malware. Yet, people don't sense the urgency in that. Worse yet, even with it's lack of security, no one wants to get rid of it, meaning it will be around for God only knows how long, hopefully NOT another 10 years.

This stagnating has led to laziness. But take a look at Google's Chrome browser and how often it is updated. 2 years on the market and we're already on version7!

What we need is an OS that is developed in the same way, and in no circumstances should no one support an OS for 10 freakin' years!

We should be pushing to upgrade and not give anyone a chance to find vulnerabilities in our software of choice.

I am being extremely ignorant here, I know, but to continue using an OS that has second rate security and continues to be a major platform in propagating malware, should honestly be dealt with by force.

[hdood]

it would be cheaper for these businesses to shell out the $249 per technet subs and get a few of em to upgrade their systems.

Doing that would be illegal and Microsoft would go after them if they found out.

thats how i upgraded all my sytems in my house.

TechNet is not a bulk discount service. The licenses you get there are solely for evaluating and testing (but not software development related testing) Microsoft solutions. What you're doing is a violation of the license and your installations are no more legal than if you had downloaded it from The Pirate Bay.

schools could prolly get a killer deal from MS just to upgrade because of them being an educational institution.

You get some discounts, but that's just the OS side of it. It also costs money to buy new hardware (7 has much higher requirements than XP, and a lot of systems that run XP aren't suited for 7), upgrade, test and, certify all software, retrain people, and so on. It's a lot of money. Some people here seem to be under the impression that XP is still widely used because people think it's better, but that's not really true outside of a very small number of fanatical home users.

Basically what I am trying to say is we can't keep stagnating with updating technology. XP has been around for 10 years and is being picked to shreds by malware.

7 will be too.

Yet, people don't sense the urgency in that. Worse yet, even with it's lack of security, no one wants to get rid of it, meaning it will be around for God only knows how long, hopefully NOT another 10 years.

Lots of people would like to upgrade, but in the real world things actually cost time and money. This is true even for home users. Many of the discussions on Neowin seem to be based on the assumption that Windows and new computers are free. They aren't. They cost money, and it's hard for many to prioritize it when what they already have works and there are other things they need more.

I am being extremely ignorant here, I know, but to continue using an OS that has second rate security and continues to be a major platform in propagating malware, should honestly be dealt with by force.

I am sure lots of people would be more than happy to accept your kind donations. I hope you're a billionaire.

[Barbasol]

You know what they say about situations like these? "Never stuff your stick into any old slot?" I think you need to start taking charge and you know protect yourself.

School or widely pubic used computers often are just waiting ponds for cyber diseases. I agree with the whole.. Byoc "bring your own computer" rule.

[+Warwagon MVC]

If you stop spouting random garbage I might reconsider.

Norton is a horrible AV and student accounts shouldn't have admin privileges. Under these two conditions, win7 is just as vulnerable as xp. The fault lies with the IT department for sucking.

Norton is not a horrible AV, it use to be bloated but in terms of detection never horrible. So I think you are also at fault of spouting random garbage.

There are things that MSE will find that Norton won't and there are things that Norton will find that MSE won't. No Antivirus is effective 100% of the time.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

No.

You say upgrades need to happen at all costs. It'll be different in different businesses, but here we have some computers that are on the edge of being replaced. They won't be replaced for another year, and with their current specs they might be able to run 7, but ultimately they will perform worse than having XP installed (like they have right now). So not only do we need to pay for the licences for Windows 7, but we also need to consider replacing at least a third of our computers. When dealing with 4 different sites that is a costly move, and if you're in a non-profit organisation it's difficult to justify.

Another problem is training. In the workplace we know for a fact that all of our users have used XP. As far as home goes, there are people who are still on XP, others who have Vista, and maybe some (very much a minority though) that use Windows 7. So if we were to deploy Windows 7 in the workplace, we would need to show people how to do the things that they used to know how to do on XP. We recently migrated our users from Outlook to Gmail, and with that came the addition of Google Docs. Since the migration, half of my time has been spent showing people how to do things within Gmail and Google Docs. Throwing Windows 7 in to the mix at this point would be too much for some.

Then you've got compatibility issues.Yes, Windows 7 should run a majority of things that Windows XP runs. But what happens when we deploy the OS and suddenly realise that an application no longer works the same way it should? Now we need to go and find an alternative that will run on 7, and once again money factors in to things.

Finally, there is us, the tech guys. We know what we're doing right now. If someone contacts us reporting a problem, we know how to handle it. However, if we were to jump ship right now and install Windows 7 across all our sites, we'd have troubleshooting problems. Our response time would be slower due to not being versed in the OS and the way things are done. And so, before doing such a huge upgrade, we would need to have a couple of machines with 7 installed, and we would need to spend the time testing it. Create our own problems and find ways to solve them. After a certain period of time, once we were comfortable with the OS, we could consider deploying it to everyone. But that in itself would probably take 6 months.

It's all well and good saying that XP needs to go, but due to the various points above it just isn't that easy in the working and educational environments.

[MadDoggyca]

well I personly bealive it comes do to hardware to ether use XP or Win 7... Linux is not a option !! dont even suggest it

I have a Gaming righ with 8GIG plus ram = Win 7 x64

I have a Laptop with 2 GIG ram + a old ati 1250 Express = win XP

having said that if I stuck vista/Win7 on my laptop it has a high chance of chocking on it. Due to video card dose not fully support WDDM Drivers (WDM.EXE) (Aero). By defult aero would be disabled anywazs so the CPU would still be doing all the rendering anywazs, so I keep XP on it untill the hardware gives out

LINUX IS NOT A OPTION FOR THIS LAPTOP DUE TO THE FACT LINUX SUCKS

and dont ask why my opion is that Im not aobut to explain it. And nothing any one can say would change my mined about the topic of linux as a Choose of OS for ANY Peace of hardware.

-----------

on a side note Norton is the bigest peace of garbage when it comes to Virus Software next to macffee. I perosnly used them both since there very first release version 1.0 to current date. I even remember useing the DOS version of Norton way back in the days.. ok the dos version was decent. simple and clean Minus u had to manual update it. now its just useless and resorce hungy.

Oh ever I like to make one exception to my stament

For any one that has used it will agree any one that has not and currently useing Norton I bet would love to switch if they could, but seeing its been disconuted is a disapointment

Norton AntiVirus Gaming Edition 2010

-6MB of total ram use

-2 Prossces running in the taskmager for a totaly of 6MB ram

-NO FireWall (was a majory bonus)

-No extra added programs, all you got was a Virus Scan real time protect only useing 6MB of memory total..

that was the BEST version of NORTON EVER!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xwXreYp0To

[Nick H. Supervisor]

LINUX IS NOT A OPTION FOR THIS LAPTOP DUE TO THE FACT LINUX SUCKS

and dont ask why my opion is that Im not aobut to explain it. And nothing any one can say would change my mined about the topic of linux as a Choose of OS for ANY Peace of hardware.

Hmm, bit of a problem there. You say Linux sucks but you're not going to explain your position. That kinda makes your point/opinion invalid and not worth paying attention to.

However, the bit before about hardware seems valid enough. It's just the part after it that makes me doubt the whole of your post.

[Mr. Gibs]

While I think 7 is a much better OS than XP, and I wish that everyone will just upgrade to it...sometimes it just isn't possible. Especially when it comes to corporations.

Just because a company earns billions, for example, doesn't instantly mean it has the money to do whatever it wants. Not only will it cost a lot, and companies have to prioritize what they spend, but the time it will require will be enormous. Take a bank for example, what if their entire banking system went down because it wasn't compatible with 7 / IE8 and their techs upgraded without making sure..that will be millions lost and a **** ton of angry customers.

And no they cannot just save money by using technet licenses. If Microsoft were to ever find out, they will be in big trouble and probably end up losing more money in lawsuits than they would have if they just bought a retail version of Windows for every company. But yes, corporations and schools do get volume / educational discounts since they generally buy in bulk.

[MadDoggyca]

Hmm, bit of a problem there. You say Linux sucks but you're not going to explain your position. That kinda makes your point/opinion invalid and not worth paying attention to.

However, the bit before about hardware seems valid enough. It's just the part after it that makes me doubt the whole of your post.

no cuz if I explain it it would be consider off topic.. lets keep it on topic about xp mainly

lets jsut say I have used many, Many Diffrent Distors since the 1991 Roughly When I was digging with dos/win1-3 at the time at to this date its still the useless garbage it was back then.. just with more of it. Also Im tired of getting into Lin-suck oriented Covertions.

[ozgeek]

Frylock86, you need to wake up. Up higher and rethink how the IT industry really works.

You can't just upgrade to every version that comes out. It's just not strategic and extremely unnecessary and waste of money.

Windows 7 is infact just a large patch over Vista which is a large patch over XP so you are basically using XP in some form when using Windows 7. People only upgrade when they NEED to and when they have the time and money to. Not everyone is rich so they can't just buy a new computer every year. Home computers are supposed to last 5-7 years. Many people buy a computer because it is a tool. It is not something that needs to be replaced just because it's "old". They only replace if it gets too slow or doesn't do what the owner wants it to do or breaks down.

The main problem is MONEY. My life is much more important than upgradng software on a computer that might OR MIGHT NOT improve on the lifestyle. Windows 7 performs the excatly same job as XP does - runs programs on the system.

Businesses have very strict budgets built on their business plan. And it is NOT the only concern. Some businesses are under contract with a IT company, or if they really own the PCs, they think about training people how to use the new systems. I know you think people should know how to use Windows but this is different. I was trained (despite me already knowing how to use windows and I learnt new things I didn't know).

The reason why you got a trojan on your stick is on the admins. Go and talk to the admin about not securing the network, rather than going after the fact that the network runs on XP.

[Frylock86]

Windows 7 is infact just a large patch over Vista which is a large patch over XP so you are basically using XP in some form when using Windows 7.

Vista/7 was developed from the server code base. Not XP's. :shiftyninja:

But getting back on topic, I wish I understood why there aren't laws from preventing technology from stagnating like it has. continuing to use an OS that has little to nothing in the way of built in security only serves to continual spread of malware, both new and old. All the while considering we have laws that prevent the stagnation of water in our communities in which that too, could spread disease if left alone for long enough periods.

Continuing to use XP on our networks is similar to swimming in a pool that has been full of standing water all summer long. It's not a matter of if you will get bitten, but when. But if we keep that water moving, it eliminates the chances of disease spreading. At most we should have laws in place from preventing an operating system from being run for more than 5 years max. Anyone not off by then should be (literally) forced off or pay the consequences.

[Ci7]

Continuing to use XP on our networks is similar to swimming in a pool that has been full of standing water all summer long. It's not a matter of if you will get bitten, but when. But if we keep that water moving, it eliminates the chances of disease spreading. At most we should have laws in place from preventing an operating system from being run for more than 5 years max. Anyone not off by then should be (literally) forced off or pay the consequences.

that doesn't make any sense

[Owen W Veteran]

I almost had some malware sneak onto my system (Windows 7 x64) tonight after having one of my jump drives plugged into a school computer running Windows XP. The Worm:Win32/Orbina!rts (Recycler.exe) worm was detected and removed by Microsoft Security Essentials before it could run and assert itself.

I have to be honest here, I am one more 'incident' short of declaring all out war on every single XP system out there still in mainstream use. I thought I could somewhat trust that my school's IT department would be able to run an XP network without it being infected, and if it was, be able to quickly repair it, but I was wrong. Being in the Computer Information Systems program at the college I have a little intel into the affairs of the department and know that they are not planning on getting rid of XP anytime soon either. Do I now tell the staff that their machines are infected?

Either way, there are no excuses anymore.

XP NEEDS TO GO.

So, who is with me? Who else is fed-up with XP and willing to declare war on this piece of technology that has sooo outstayed it's welcome?

I approve of this message (Y)

[Sergee]

Leave XP alone, it's going to extinct out soon.

[hdood]

Vista/7 was developed from the server code base. Not XP's. :shiftyninja:

They're the same thing. 2000 -> XP -> Server 2003 (R2)/XP x64 -> Vista -> Vista SP1/Server 2008 -> 7/Server 2008 R2.