Sparrow (Mail Alternative)


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Jan

That's because of Mac OS X' borderless window design, rather than putting think transparent borders around everything. :p

Agreed.

That doesn't change Internet Explorer 9 has a near-regular titlbar thickness that is largely being wasted away for the sake of having an abnormally large back button.

You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing at this point and you still don't seem to understand what I'm really talking about. So far nothing you brought up has much to do with my original post.

All I said was that I liked having buttons in the titlebar - and you go and on have to put down MS - how is that my fault? I like the look of Sparrow - it's a very nice app.

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.Neo

All I said was that I liked having buttons in the titlebar - and you go and on have to put down MS - how is that my fault? I like the look of Sparrow - it's a very nice app.

I wasn't putting down Microsoft, I said the new window design sets Mac OS X apart from Windows and Linux. Totally different story.

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enigma-penguin

Okay so having played around for a few hours, I've muddled through a lot of the bugs. Here are some highlights:

What doesn't work:

- The "folders" are a bit hinky, they don't always work properly (eg, if you label something it "flickers")

- When you create an account you have to shut down and restart before it'll let you make another

- Exchange hates it with a passion

- So does Live mail and Yahoo

- So does anything that uses TLS

- Search button is useless in custom and 3rd part imap

What does work:

- Normal gmail (obviously)

- Custom imap

- Labels in custom imap

- Staring in custom imap

They're going to start working through those bugs, but I'm sure more will crop up before the end of beta. So far though and problems aside: Normal custom IMAP works fine, but getting other kinds working properly might take them some time. I would consider March optimistic at this point, but you never know; it is day one of the beta after all.

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PyX

Beyond personal preference when it comes to the interface it's in no way "better than Mail" nor will it be anytime soon.

Beyond personal preference? What do you mean? I mean, I know Sparrow and Outlook have their flaws, but Mail has a few of them, too.

Like I said, in Mail :

1. Add a nice & lean formatting bar

2. Separate "Mailboxes", "List of messages" and "Message content" in 3 columns instead of the way it is now, or at least give the choice to be able to do it

3. Email conversations suck in Mail, but it?s awesome in iOS. There?s no reason, really why it?s so different.

Do all of this and we?re all set for me.

While these requests are not done yet, I will still keep using Mail as my main and only email application.

Even with POP3 and IMAP support Sparrow's feature set is fairly limited compared to Mail's.

Well, Sparrow was born to read and write emails, not to read RSS feeds, write Notes and Tasks.

So it?s limited compared to Mail, I agree, but voluntarily limited.

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.Neo

Beyond personal preference? What do you mean? I mean, I know Sparrow and Outlook have their flaws, but Mail has a few of them, too.

Mail is by no means perfect, but so far the application does what I need it to do. Sparrow on the other hand does not and I still feel its price isn't very reasonable for what it is (a new interface build on top of a modified open source backend). :)

Well, Sparrow was born to read and write emails, not to read RSS feeds, write Notes and Tasks.

So it’s limited compared to Mail, I agree, but voluntarily limited.

Which means you also lack the ability to sync with iOS devices, which in turn means you have to use two email clients. For me that's a huge deal breaker. That said I have the same issue with Outlook, so this problem isn't limited to Sparrow in any way. I don't really care for RSS beyond having a news RSS widget in Dashboard. ;) Whether Sparrow is voluntarily limited I'm not sure if I agree with that. Seems like an easy way of defending a lack of features. :p

Maybe if they add functionality like that its more worth the price. It doesn't have to compromise their current interface either.

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Xtreme $niper

Except Windows Vista / 7 windows do all have a titlebar, it just doesn't display any text in some applications like Explorer and Internet Explorer 9 but the space is still there and being wasted. I suggest you take a harder look.

screenshot20110221at160.png

Just as a sidenote, if you had chosen an application other than the App Store (or iTunes, for that matter), the space savings is even more evident. The App Store's top area is a huge waste of space.

See TextMate's ridiculous space savings, even with a title bar...

textmate.png

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.Neo
The App Store's top area is a huge waste of space.

Let's not exaggerate. There are also other toolbar buttons in the App Store that make full use of the vertical space. Not everything has to be reduced to 23 pixels in hight.

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Examinus

Why is this thread attracting to many moronic arguments?

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ynnoj

I've been checking out the beta today with my MobileMe account.

Me likey.

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.Neo
What does work:

- Normal gmail (obviously)

- Custom imap

- Labels in custom imap

- Staring in custom imap

It the beta worth using at this point in your opinion when it comes to regular IMAP support?

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enigma-penguin

It the beta worth using at this point in your opinion when it comes to regular IMAP support?

It is doing pretty darn well actually, with stars, labels and threaded conversations working in normal IMAP, I'm going to go with yes. I'd still prefer it if it had some spam filtering, but dems da breaks I'll just have to set spam assassin up differently.

Threaded conversation in custom imap:

Screen%20shot%202011-02-22%20at%206.29.25%20AM.png

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.Neo

It doesn't have Junk Mail filtering?! :blink: You've gotta be kiddin' me... Wow...

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PyX

It doesn't have Junk Mail filtering?? :blink:

Really?

Ohhh maybe they wanted to rely on Gmail?s built-in junk filtering for now, but if they?re including generic IMAP and POP3 support, this feature has to come ASAP...

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enigma-penguin

I really think they're relying on inplace filtering, yes. It's that amongst all things that drives me nuts right now, but I activated spam assassins "spam box" feature and 95% is landing in that.

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Xtreme $niper

Let's not exaggerate. There are also other toolbar buttons in the App Store that make full use of the vertical space. Not everything has to be reduced to 23 pixels in hight.

No exaggeration here. I hate it when the traffic light buttons hover mid-way between a super-thick bar. They need to find somewhere better to put those things. And the Store doesn't even have the pill button to minimize the icon buttons with text to just icon buttons, to further save space. That would have made it perfect.

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.Neo

No exaggeration here. I hate it when the traffic light buttons hover mid-way between a super-thick bar. They need to find somewhere better to put those things. And the Store doesn't even have the pill button to minimize the icon buttons with text to just icon buttons, to further save space. That would have made it perfect.

With the new toolbar layout I expect the pill button to largely disappear. Except on applications that still use the old layout. I never understood why some applications do have a toolbar hide (pill) button and some don't.

Anyway, the App Store new toolbar button layout saves almost half the vertical space compared to a traditional toolbar (Disk Utility for example). To me is that's more than enough especially because it doesn't sacrifice functionality, something you do when hiding the toolbar altogether. I do agree though that it should have an option to hide the toolbar button text.

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PyX

I never understood why some applications do have a toolbar hide (pill) button and some don’t.

Awesome name :shifty:

I was asking that myself the other day, in Safari ...

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.Neo

Looking at the Mac OS X Lion preview the screenshot20110224at014.png button will disappear altogether, regardless what application.

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Xtreme $niper

Bah, I just blame inconsistent developer implementations for that one. I actually found it useful once in a while, but I guess since most people would just "set it and forget it", if they keep the setting in the preferences somewhere then it's fine too.

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PyX

I think it’s settled what will be my next Mail client in the end :laugh:

It seems to respect my demands... Just take a look at this :

091845-mail.jpg

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.Neo

Mail 5 looks amazing. I have no idea whatsoever why I would want to pay an additional €8 for a subpar mail client that doesn't even have the most basic of features like Junk Mail filtering...

Bah, I just blame inconsistent developer implementations for that one. I actually found it useful once in a while, but I guess since most people would just "set it and forget it", if they keep the setting in the preferences somewhere then it's fine too.

We'll know soon enough if the feature still exists in the Menu Bar. :)

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Examinus

Mail 5 looks amazing. I have no idea whatsoever why I would want to pay an additional €8 for a subpar mail client that doesn't even have the most basic of features like Junk Mail filtering...

I'm completely baffled by your stance on this.

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.Neo

I'm completely baffled by your stance on this.

Because? I'm completely baffled by the fact they're selling software that lacks the most basic of features. Even worse part is that they're selling it without offering a demo version, which I find pretty immoral considering the severe lack of functionality. No offense, but I really feel what they're doing is wrong.

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PyX

I'm completely baffled by your stance on this.

Same.

Sparrow isn’t 8 years old like Mail is and doesn’t benefit the same development team. This two men team preferred releasing it now instead of waiting 3-6 more months before it has everything, which makes total sense if you are a developer with little power like them.

The best example I can give you is Pixelmator. It sucked on its first release and it still hasn’t caught up yet on every feature of Photoshop, but it’s damn near it, and it’s also a two men project. Give Sparrow time and it’ll include all your wanted features like generic IMAP, generic POP3, generic Junk Filter, ... and it’ll probably become less expensive over the time.

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.Neo
The best example I can give you is Pixelmator. It sucked on its first release and it still hasn’t caught up yet on every feature of Photoshop, but it’s damn near it, and it’s also a two men project. Give Sparrow time and it’ll include all your wanted features like generic IMAP, generic POP3, generic Junk Filter, ... and it’ll probably become less expensive over the time.

Difference is that Pixelmator offers you a demo version which you can try out and see for yourself if it fits your need or not. I already know three people who bought Sparrow only to find out it's severely lacking.

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