tomjol Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 That wouldn't be the homosexuals' faults. If people decide not to be members of the Boy Scouts just because they allow homosexuals to join, those people have a lot of issues - allowing homosexuals to join should not affect their decision to join, surely? Likewise, if parents don't wish their children to join just because homosexuals are allowed to sign up, they also have a lot of issues - homosexuals being around children will not affect those children any more than hanging around heterosexuals will. So basically we're onto the inevitable topic of intolerance of others in "the land of the free"? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted October 21, 2010 Veteran Share Posted October 21, 2010 So basically we're onto the inevitable topic of intolerance of others in "the land of the free"? ;) Yes, we are because people are not completely free, if they are not tolerated ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerAusgewanderte Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 agree with posts that this is nothing new. Boyscout leaders have been expelled in the past for the same reason. This is exactly why we decided not to continue boyscouts for my 11yr old son. He doesn't believe in god. It is still too abstract for him. As an atheist (even if it may be temporary) he can't move from cub scouts to boy scouts, period. At least I was allowed not to say "under god" when I changed my citizenship. I do not agree with their stand on religion and sexual orientation. And I do not agree with people saying: 'yeah but he could just say the oath or participate in the religious exercises and still be part of boy scouts". At some point in their life they will be expelled. This is the same ridiculous thing that is happening with DADT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerAusgewanderte Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 ... This is the same ridiculous thing that is happening with DADT. can't edit my own post, not sure why... "We focus on our mission, and our mission is to take young people and prepare them for an exceptional adulthood" A society/group with the goal to prepare kids for an exceptional adulthood and at the same time expelling atheists and gays is stuck in time and has no value to the society it's working for. The problem here is that Boy Scout of America views itself as open to the community. No - it's not. If it's not able to adapt it's values then it shouldn't accept new members. Do they ask somebody whether he is atheist or gay when they join? No, of course not (but better read the fine print in the membership form you sign). Somebody mentioned Girl Scouts. None of this is a problem with Girl Scouts. It's open-minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 eh solve the problem, start the Gay Scouts of America...... :rolleyes: Someone gives this a try. Can't be any worse. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*RedBull* Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 One could argue the same for people like you, trying to force your homophobia onto everyone else. See you just reinforced my point by labeling me as a "homophobe" when I'm definately not. Homo meaning same, phobia meaning fear of or dislike. When I just provide an opposing view point to what the homosexual agenda is, and you accurately depic. No I'm referring to minority of society pushing their beliefs onto the majority of society. I fully accept homosexuals for who they are, and what they do in private. so you got it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted October 22, 2010 Veteran Share Posted October 22, 2010 See you just reinforced my point by labeling me as a "homophobe" when I'm definately not. Homo meaning same, phobia meaning fear of or dislike. When I just provide an opposing view point to what the homosexual agenda is, and you accurately depic. No I'm referring to minority of society pushing their beliefs onto the majority of society. I fully accept homosexuals for who they are, and what they do in private. so you got it wrong. Agenda? The only 'agenda' homosexuals have is to be accepted. Acceptance is something they shouldn't have to fight for anyway, seeing as their homosexuality harms nobody (any more than heterosexuality does) and they cannot change their sexuality. Also, you state that you have a problem with a minority in society pushing their beliefs onto the majority of society, yet you're happy to hypocritically do the same - push your beliefs onto the majority of society. Why is it fine you do that? Is it because you're part of a majority? Either way, it's still hypocritical to not accept others, yet expect to be accepted yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*RedBull* Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Agenda? The only 'agenda' homosexuals have is to be accepted. Acceptance is something they shouldn't have to fight for anyway, seeing as their homosexuality harms nobody (any more than heterosexuality does) and they cannot change their sexuality. Also, you state that you have a problem with a minority in society pushing their beliefs onto the majority of society, yet you're happy to hypocritically do the same - push your beliefs onto the majority of society. Why is it fine you do that? Is it because you're part of a majority? Either way, it's still hypocritical to not accept others, yet expect to be accepted yourself. Minority view? Sorry pal, polls clearly show the majority view is not pro homosexuality. Yes they can choose what they do. lol That's like saying a fat kid can't help but to eat at McDonald's...lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 No they don't.....at least, not anymore: http://www.nytimes.c...ry.html?_r=1&hp Sorry, but we still have the Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy in act. Once you are in, your life is to remain private and you are not to advertise your sexual preference (Granted, nobody really cares at least where I work, we have openly gay people around we just turn a blind eye, because we don't want them administratively separated and have no problem with them). But people against the don't ask don't tell policy, will need to see the bigger picture. If that goes away and people start openly coming out [in the military] there will be very bad violence and hazing, despite strict equal opportunity laws we have as well as no-hazing policies. Just want to make it known, yes you can "be homosexual" when you join, but the second you go to bootcamp, you are straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted October 22, 2010 Veteran Share Posted October 22, 2010 Minority view? Sorry pal, polls clearly show the majority view is not pro homosexuality. Yes they can choose what they do. lol That's like saying a fat kid can't help but to eat at McDonald's...lmao I didn't state it was a minority view. I stated that you practice hypocrisy by trying to force your view (a majority view) on those that do not subscribe to it (the minority), as you dislike it when homosexuals (a minority) try to force acceptance of those who do not tolerate them (a majority). You misunderstood me - homosexuals, like anybody, can choose what they do; however, like anybody, they cannot choose how they feel. Simply: A homosexual can choose not to engage in homosexual activity, but they cannot choose not to desire it. That was what I was getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoauld Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I agree - it does seem unfair but if they're not getting any public funds it's well within their rights I suppose.? Isnt that the same as work discrimination though. Any large company and that wouldnt be tolerated...i thought the USA has moved at least far enough for work equality...but if not thats REALLY pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seta-san Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 the biggest problem with the gay rights movement is that they demand complete equality in all situations even though allowing equality would change the social dynamic in such a way that was not originally intended or appropriate. Isnt that the same as work discrimination though. Any large company and that wouldnt be tolerated...i thought the USA has moved at least far enough for work equality...but if not thats REALLY pathetic. it's volunteer i believe. Isnt that the same as work discrimination though. Any large company and that wouldnt be tolerated...i thought the USA has moved at least far enough for work equality...but if not thats REALLY pathetic. it's volunteer i believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys4me Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Minority view? Sorry pal, polls clearly show the majority view is not pro homosexuality. Yes they can choose what they do. lol You might want to re-check your facts... the latest polls are showing a slight lead in favor of allowing gays to serve in the military, and for SSM, which would indicate a pro-gay stance. The trending has clearly been moving toward acceptance for years now. This site has a good compilation of polling results, showing historical trends for many of them: http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys4me Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Sorry, but we still have the Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy in act. Once you are in, your life is to remain private and you are not to advertise your sexual preference (Granted, nobody really cares at least where I work, we have openly gay people around we just turn a blind eye, because we don't want them administratively separated and have no problem with them). But people against the don't ask don't tell policy, will need to see the bigger picture. If that goes away and people start openly coming out [in the military] there will be very bad violence and hazing, despite strict equal opportunity laws we have as well as no-hazing policies. Just want to make it known, yes you can "be homosexual" when you join, but the second you go to bootcamp, you are straight. Those are the same warnings people made when the military was integrated back in the late 40's. The simple fact is the military will be forced to do whatever they're told... many of those in the service seem to forget that the U.S. has a civilian controlled military (hence the President being the CIC). They ultimately serve at the pleasure of the people... if they don't like that, too bad. If they can't manage to conduct themselves in a mature & disciplined manner they may find themselves discharged, imprisoned, or both. We've gone through periods of violence, hazing, hate crimes & discrimination before, against both non-whites and women... but it's amazing how quickly things snap back to order once you start throwing servicemen & women into prison, or simply end the careers of those that were unable to conduct themselves accordingly. What you're going to see happen, eventually, will be a fundamental change to your last sentence... "Yes you can be a homophobe when you join, but the second you go to bootcamp your opinion won't matter... you'll be expected to act as a professional soldier, conducting yourself in a disciplined and respectful manner." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Riske Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Private organization. Who cares. It's just something new for the depraved hatemongers to cry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted October 22, 2010 Veteran Share Posted October 22, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy Notice the words 'effort' and 'attempt' in the first sentence of that article. I very much doubt conversion therapy works - I imagine it will all be in the mind, if people think it works. If you think conversion therapy works then you must agree and admit that you have the capacity to become homosexual, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*RedBull* Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I didn't state it was a minority view. I stated that you practice hypocrisy by trying to force your view (a majority view) on those that do not subscribe to it (the minority), as you dislike it when homosexuals (a minority) try to force acceptance of those who do not tolerate them (a majority). You misunderstood me - homosexuals, like anybody, can choose what they do; however, like anybody, they cannot choose how they feel. Simply: A homosexual can choose not to engage in homosexual activity, but they cannot choose not to desire it. That was what I was getting at. No it's not hyposcrisy, Heterosexuals aren't telling homosexuals they can't do their homosexual thing. Just choosing to be homosexual, one can't be a Boy Scout leader. LOL It is completely incorrect to state that homosexuals can choose not to desire it. Any human can be conditioned to think and feel whatever. Through conditioning homosexuals develop that orientation. Basic Behavior Psychology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted October 22, 2010 Veteran Share Posted October 22, 2010 the biggest problem with the gay rights movement is that they demand complete equality in all situations even though allowing equality would change the social dynamic in such a way that was not originally intended or appropriate. [...] Homosexual/bisexual/pansexual people should do that, in my opinion. As I have already stated, homosexuals cannot change their sexuality (despite others trying to find ways, for some intolerant reason) - there are no facts to support they can; so, even though there are also no facts to suggest they cannot, it still makes sense to assume they cannot as this is people's lives we are discussing. Considering the need for that logical assumption, homosexuals should be seen as equal to heterosexuals, in everything, and it should actually be the purpose/social dynamic/expectations which change. An example is allowing homosexuals in the army; obviously some believe this would not be good because same sexes currently share dorms and engage in other communal activities which may make some people feel uncomfortable; due to the idea that the homosexual cannot change the fact he/she is attracted to the same sex, they should not be excluded from the ability to join the Army - instead, another solution has to be thought of which does not allow either the homosexual or heterosexual to be subjected to inequality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted October 22, 2010 Veteran Share Posted October 22, 2010 would organize a camping trip with a bunch of teenagers and put boys and girls in the same tents ? would you even have them on the same side of the lake? not likely. So why are we going to mix a bunch of homosexuals in to the group ? Your mother dropped you when you were a baby right? Or maybe you choked on the umbilical cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SierraSonic Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Your mother dropped you when you were a baby right? Or maybe you choked on the umbilical cord. Actually out of all this anti-gay bs I keep reading, that is the only point that actually makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSoft Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Do you really think it is appropriate to ban homosexuals from such groups just because some may feel uncomfortable sleeping near them? Is it just me or do other people see the similarities here between what you've just said and what happened to Juan Williams with NPR? Is it his fault he feels uncomfortable when flying with Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 See you just reinforced my point by labeling me as a "homophobe" when I'm definately not. Homo meaning same, phobia meaning fear of or dislike. When I just provide an opposing view point to what the homosexual agenda is, and you accurately depic. No I'm referring to minority of society pushing their beliefs onto the majority of society. I fully accept homosexuals for who they are, and what they do in private. so you got it wrong. So wanting equal rights is an 'agenda' now? I guess it pains people like you to think of these people as human beings huh? They should have the same rights as everywhere else. Minority view? Sorry pal, polls clearly show the majority view is not pro homosexuality. Yes they can choose what they do. lol That's like saying a fat kid can't help but to eat at McDonald's...lmao The majority are wrong. In the US, the majority's opinions are guided by religious bigotry, not rational facts. No it's not hyposcrisy, Heterosexuals aren't telling homosexuals they can't do their homosexual thing. Just choosing to be homosexual, one can't be a Boy Scout leader. LOL It is completely incorrect to state that homosexuals can choose not to desire it. Any human can be conditioned to think and feel whatever. Through conditioning homosexuals develop that orientation. Basic Behavior Psychology. Like all people who think like you do, your ignorance about homosexuality shines through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Those are the same warnings people made when the military was integrated back in the late 40's. The simple fact is the military will be forced to do whatever they're told... many of those in the service seem to forget that the U.S. has a civilian controlled military (hence the President being the CIC). They ultimately serve at the pleasure of the people... if they don't like that, too bad. If they can't manage to conduct themselves in a mature & disciplined manner they may find themselves discharged, imprisoned, or both. We've gone through periods of violence, hazing, hate crimes & discrimination before, against both non-whites and women... but it's amazing how quickly things snap back to order once you start throwing servicemen & women into prison, or simply end the careers of those that were unable to conduct themselves accordingly. What you're going to see happen, eventually, will be a fundamental change to your last sentence... "Yes you can be a homophobe when you join, but the second you go to bootcamp your opinion won't matter... you'll be expected to act as a professional soldier, conducting yourself in a disciplined and respectful manner." You are correct :). Unfortunately, what is expected and what really is.... isn't always the same :(. Which is why we will be doing another "80's" style drug bust (Spice is illegal in the military, and lot of people will be filtered out soon). I've been reading many things on the military getting rid of the "don't ask don't tell policy" but progress is slow. Its not like it will do much though, because even the most homophobic people do "gay" things, like slap other guys asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted October 23, 2010 Veteran Share Posted October 23, 2010 Is it just me or do other people see the similarities here between what you've just said and what happened to Juan Williams with NPR? Is it his fault he feels uncomfortable when flying with Muslims? You make a good point and I actually think it is his fault he is uncomfortable flying with Muslims because he is grossly stereotyping. No it's not hyposcrisy, Heterosexuals aren't telling homosexuals they can't do their homosexual thing. Just choosing to be homosexual, one can't be a Boy Scout leader. LOL It is completely incorrect to state that homosexuals can choose not to desire it. Any human can be conditioned to think and feel whatever. Through conditioning homosexuals develop that orientation. Basic Behavior Psychology. There is no proof the scout leader chose to be homosexual. There is no proof one can choose not to desire something. Next, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 I do not and will not knowingly have my children in the vicinity of homosexuals. I'm glad the Scouts have courage of their convictions. And why is that ? Exactly what do you think is going to happen, if your kids were around 'gays' ? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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