John Veteran Posted July 30, 2003 Veteran Share Posted July 30, 2003 i've been wanting to make a thread about this for quite some time, and today i had a free day, so i thought i'd watch the matrix in full while making this thread and just post any thoughts/ideas i had about it. i asked a lot of questions and listed some of my own thoughts/theories, so if you can't read the whole post, that's fine (i just previewed it and god is it long); just post on one or two things if you want. also, feel free to post your own questions/thoughts as well. i typed these questions as i watched the movie, but some of them might seem out of context. this is just because something reminded me of something earlier or later in the movie, or of something in the matrix: reloaded. where do the agents come from? in the first scene, they show up with a bunch of cops like they're FBI or something. the cops have to believe they are somehow above them; the agents can't just "show up" and expect the cops to follow them around like their little workers. why do you need a "hard line" to get out of the matrix. and what is a "hard line"? i know it's some sort of special phone line; but couldn't the agent's just keep guards next to all the hard lines? smith seems to know where neo is going at the end of the movie; he beats neo there and that's when he kills him. why can't the agents just listen to the signal from the nebuchadnezzar and track it down? why do they need to run a search? the title of the book neo uses to hide his "stash" in, "Simulacra & Simulation"; does that mean anything? when the agents are questioning him, smith says "one of these lives has a future, and one of them does not." my thought is that from what i've seen with the matrix: reloaded, the agents/machines might be manipulating neo to do what they want (choose one of the doors later, with the architect). this could explain why they simply don't kill neo when they get the chance. they need him. so does smith mean that neo's hacker life has a future? or does he mean what he says, trying to look like some sort of federal agent, wanting neo to work just like everyone else. the agents obviously have the ability to modify the matrix, or certain aspects of it, however they want. smith does this when he makes neo's mouth disappear. it also happens when everyone tries to exit the matrix; the agents change the structure of the building. so why can't they just instantly solve many of their own problems and change the matrix to suit their needs? why does switch call neo "coppertop" in the car? he doesn't have orange hair :blink: what is the importance of the shattered mirror turning to liquid? i know it covers neo soon after it morphs, but what does the liquid itself do? when morpheus, trinity, etc. "load" things into the matrix, do they just appear out of nowhere? this "residual self image" thing morpheus talks about later, what if i was in the matrix and i just wanted to change my hairstyle or clothes or something, would it just instantly change? this kind of happens when morpheus tells tank to switch from the sparring program to the jump program; morpheus and neo's clothes change, along with the whole environment. later, when they go to see the oracle, they seem to just appear in the room. when they leave the matrix however, they need to be using a phone connected to a "hard line". how do they load into the matrix? what's the bubbling water behind each of the pods when neo "wakes up" in his pod? what's the machine that neo meets shortly after it wakes up? it looks like it's controlled by morpheus, but wouldn't the machines find it in the "fields" and destroy it? when the humans scorched the sky, why couldn't the machines just clean it up? and what do they mean "scorched" the sky? it looks like it's a constant storm... morpheus says when the matrix was created there was a man born inside who could change whatever he wanted. i assume he's talking about the anomaly referenced in the matrix: reloaded. but this adds speculation to the thought of nested matrices; if neo is the anomaly, then how could neo exist in the matrix before morpheus found him? in the matrix: reloaded, the architect says that this will be the 6th time zion was destroyed. how can it be destroyed more than once if the theory of multiple matrices isn't true? why do the machines have to dig to get to zion in the matrix: reloaded? zion ships can simply fly through tunnels or something to get there, why can't the machines? why does the ground move/morph when neo falls? this happens later with the helicopter scene and later in reloaded when neo flies. but why does it happen? why does the agent look like smith in the "agent training" program with the "woman in the red dress"? there are many more different agents than just smith. why did mouse (he coded the program) use smith's image? or is that just a hollywood trick to make smith appear more evil in the sequels? how does an agent "take over" someone else's body? what happens to that person in the real world? how does their mind handle it? or don't they? are they disconnected from the matrix; do they just die? why do the agents need a person's body in the matrix? can't they just appear when no one is looking and everyone thinks they are just another person? morpheus says that the agents are "the gatekeepers". gatekeepers to what? why does morpheus put a hat on when the squiddies are looking for them? if you can bend the rules of the matrix and jump extremely high/far, punch harder, etc., why can't you run faster? when did cypher get a chance to visit with smith and negotiate? he would have to be in the matrix, and i doubt morpheus would let him go inside by himself. not only that, but when and how did he arrange this meeting? did the machines/agents actually plan on inserting cypher back into the matrix? or were they just using him and going to kill him later? why does cyper light a cigar that's already lit? :huh: :rofl: in the car, on the way to see the oracle, neo says he has these memories from his life, but none of them ever happened. i think it wouldn't be wrong to say they happened, even thought they physically didn't. you still technically interacted with people and an environment, even though it's not physical. in the oracle's (apartment?), she has a rack of spoons on the wall. are these there specifically for practice? :rofl: spoon boy says it's "not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself", but when neo looks at him, there are several bent spoons laying on the floor. if the spoon doesn't bend (it's just an object in the matrix, what prevents it from changing?) how does neo see the spoons as bent if the spoon boy is the one that bends? when the oracle's assistant tells neo she's ready for him, the spoon changes back to normal. why? when neo asked how she knew he would break the vase, the oracle says "oh, what's really going to bake your noodle later on is would you still have broken it if i hadn't said anything?" what are your thoughts? i used to think about things like this all the time when i was about 10-14. now, school is taking up more time, i have more responsibilities, and i don't have enough time to think about things like this anymore :( was the oracle just playing with neo? she seemed to leave the answer up to neo about him being "the one". when smith is talking to morpheus, he says that the first matrix failed, and entire crops were lost, blah blah blah. some believed they lacked the programming language to describe our perfect world. but as AI, couldn't the machines design any programming language to describe whatever they want? if the leader of every ship is given codes to zion's mainframe, and smith is trying to get morpheus to tell him, the codes can't be that complicated. why couldn't the machines just brute force attack the mainframe and get into it? the agents are just programs running on one of the machines' matrix servers right? why do they need to talk to communicate to each other like they do when they find out cypher has failed? smith says that humans aren't actually mammals; instead, we're similar to virii. i happen to somewhat agree with him. today's society is complete crap, and especially in america, we live like pigs, most of us thinking only of ourselves. tank asks neo what he needs, besides a miracle. neo says "guns. lots of guns." well how does tank take everything from the loading program and insert it into the matrix? i guess this goes back to how do people/agents get inserted into the matrix? why do the agents have ear pieces? again, they communicate by talking, and they are programs on the server, so what's the point of the ear pieces? smith says "once zion is destroyed, there is no need for me to be here". i'm assuming smith is an AI, and if he is, wouldn't he be afraid of death? every living thing i can think of fears or avoids death. wouldn't an AI be the same? why does everyone wear sunglasses? :rofl: the agent on the roof (who took the pilot's body), once he's done shooting at neo, says "only human." in the matrix: reloaded, one of the agents (the same one?) says "still only human". what's with this whole neo being "only human" thing? i'm sure it has something to do with neo going into a coma at the end of reloaded, but i can't figure out what. is neo just a part of the program of the matrix like the architect implies? if so, how is he able to exit the matrix and exist in the "real world"? why does tank always answer as "operator"? it's not like someone's going to dial the number randomly (or is it?) why does trinity try to stop the bullet when smith shoots at her in the phone booth? she can't do it if she's not the one, right? the whole thing about trinity reviving neo needs explaining. :laugh: :/ as does the part about neo jumping inside smith... :huh: and again, the walls bend. at the end, when neo is on the phone, he says "i can feel you now". this again makes me think he's not human, at least partially. and finally, what are your predictions for the matrix: revolutions? 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Ravager Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 i've been wanting to make a thread about this for quite some time, and today i had a free day, so i thought i'd watch the matrix in full while making this thread and just post any thoughts/ideas i had about it. i asked a lot of questions and listed some of my own thoughts/theories, so if you can't read the whole post, that's fine (i just previewed it and god is it long); just post on one or two things if you want. also, feel free to post your own questions/thoughts as well. i typed these questions as i watched the movie, but some of them might seem out of context. this is just because something reminded me of something earlier or later in the movie, or of something in the matrix: reloaded.where do the agents come from? in the first scene, they show up with a bunch of cops like they're FBI or something. the cops have to believe they are somehow above them; the agents can't just "show up" and expect the cops to follow them around like their little workers. why do you need a "hard line" to get out of the matrix. and what is a "hard line"? i know it's some sort of special phone line; but couldn't the agent's just keep guards next to all the hard lines? smith seems to know where neo is going at the end of the movie; he beats neo there and that's when he kills him. why can't the agents just listen to the signal from the nebuchadnezzar and track it down? why do they need to run a search? the title of the book neo uses to hide his "stash" in, "Simulacra & Simulation"; does that mean anything? when the agents are questioning him, smith says "one of these lives has a future, and one of them does not." my thought is that from what i've seen with the matrix: reloaded, the agents/machines might be manipulating neo to do what they want (choose one of the doors later, with the architect). this could explain why they simply don't kill neo when they get the chance. they need him. so does smith mean that neo's hacker life has a future? or does he mean what he says, trying to look like some sort of federal agent, wanting neo to work just like everyone else. the agents obviously have the ability to modify the matrix, or certain aspects of it, however they want. smith does this when he makes neo's mouth disappear. it also happens when everyone tries to exit the matrix; the agents change the structure of the building. so why can't they just instantly solve many of their own problems and change the matrix to suit their needs? why does switch call neo "coppertop" in the car? he doesn't have orange hair :blink: what is the importance of the shattered mirror turning to liquid? i know it covers neo soon after it morphs, but what does the liquid itself do? when morpheus, trinity, etc. "load" things into the matrix, do they just appear out of nowhere? this "residual self image" thing morpheus talks about later, what if i was in the matrix and i just wanted to change my hairstyle or clothes or something, would it just instantly change? this kind of happens when morpheus tells tank to switch from the sparring program to the jump program; morpheus and neo's clothes change, along with the whole environment. later, when they go to see the oracle, they seem to just appear in the room. when they leave the matrix however, they need to be using a phone connected to a "hard line". how do they load into the matrix? what's the bubbling water behind each of the pods when neo "wakes up" in his pod? what's the machine that neo meets shortly after it wakes up? it looks like it's controlled by morpheus, but wouldn't the machines find it in the "fields" and destroy it? when the humans scorched the sky, why couldn't the machines just clean it up? and what do they mean "scorched" the sky? it looks like it's a constant storm... morpheus says when the matrix was created there was a man born inside who could change whatever he wanted. i assume he's talking about the anomaly referenced in the matrix: reloaded. but this adds speculation to the thought of nested matrices; if neo is the anomaly, then how could neo exist in the matrix before morpheus found him? in the matrix: reloaded, the architect says that this will be the 6th time zion was destroyed. how can it be destroyed more than once if the theory of multiple matrices isn't true? why do the machines have to dig to get to zion in the matrix: reloaded? zion ships can simply fly through tunnels or something to get there, why can't the machines? why does the ground move/morph when neo falls? this happens later with the helicopter scene and later in reloaded when neo flies. but why does it happen? why does the agent look like smith in the "agent training" program with the "woman in the red dress"? there are many more different agents than just smith. why did mouse (he coded the program) use smith's image? or is that just a hollywood trick to make smith appear more evil in the sequels? how does an agent "take over" someone else's body? what happens to that person in the real world? how does their mind handle it? or don't they? are they disconnected from the matrix; do they just die? why do the agents need a person's body in the matrix? can't they just appear when no one is looking and everyone thinks they are just another person? morpheus says that the agents are "the gatekeepers". gatekeepers to what? why does morpheus put a hat on when the squiddies are looking for them? if you can bend the rules of the matrix and jump extremely high/far, punch harder, etc., why can't you run faster? when did cypher get a chance to visit with smith and negotiate? he would have to be in the matrix, and i doubt morpheus would let him go inside by himself. not only that, but when and how did he arrange this meeting? did the machines/agents actually plan on inserting cypher back into the matrix? or were they just using him and going to kill him later? why does cyper light a cigar that's already lit? :huh: :rofl: in the car, on the way to see the oracle, neo says he has these memories from his life, but none of them ever happened. i think it wouldn't be wrong to say they happened, even thought they physically didn't. you still technically interacted with people and an environment, even though it's not physical. in the oracle's (apartment?), she has a rack of spoons on the wall. are these there specifically for practice? :rofl: spoon boy says it's "not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself", but when neo looks at him, there are several bent spoons laying on the floor. if the spoon doesn't bend (it's just an object in the matrix, what prevents it from changing?) how does neo see the spoons as bent if the spoon boy is the one that bends? when the oracle's assistant tells neo she's ready for him, the spoon changes back to normal. why? when neo asked how she knew he would break the vase, the oracle says "oh, what's really going to bake your noodle later on is would you still have broken it if i hadn't said anything?" what are your thoughts? i used to think about things like this all the time when i was about 10-14. now, school is taking up more time, i have more responsibilities, and i don't have enough time to think about things like this anymore :( was the oracle just playing with neo? she seemed to leave the answer up to neo about him being "the one". when smith is talking to morpheus, he says that the first matrix failed, and entire crops were lost, blah blah blah. some believed they lacked the programming language to describe our perfect world. but as AI, couldn't the machines design any programming language to describe whatever they want? if the leader of every ship is given codes to zion's mainframe, and smith is trying to get morpheus to tell him, the codes can't be that complicated. why couldn't the machines just brute force attack the mainframe and get into it? the agents are just programs running on one of the machines' matrix servers right? why do they need to talk to communicate to each other like they do when they find out cypher has failed? smith says that humans aren't actually mammals; instead, we're similar to virii. i happen to somewhat agree with him. today's society is complete crap, and especially in america, we live like pigs, most of us thinking only of ourselves. tank asks neo what he needs, besides a miracle. neo says "guns. lots of guns." well how does tank take everything from the loading program and insert it into the matrix? i guess this goes back to how do people/agents get inserted into the matrix? why do the agents have ear pieces? again, they communicate by talking, and they are programs on the server, so what's the point of the ear pieces? smith says "once zion is destroyed, there is no need for me to be here". i'm assuming smith is an AI, and if he is, wouldn't he be afraid of death? every living thing i can think of fears or avoids death. wouldn't an AI be the same? why does everyone wear sunglasses? :rofl: the agent on the roof (who took the pilot's body), once he's done shooting at neo, says "only human." in the matrix: reloaded, one of the agents (the same one?) says "still only human". what's with this whole neo being "only human" thing? i'm sure it has something to do with neo going into a coma at the end of reloaded, but i can't figure out what. is neo just a part of the program of the matrix like the architect implies? if so, how is he able to exit the matrix and exist in the "real world"? why does tank always answer as "operator"? it's not like someone's going to dial the number randomly (or is it?) why does trinity try to stop the bullet when smith shoots at her in the phone booth? she can't do it if she's not the one, right? the whole thing about trinity reviving neo needs explaining. :laugh: :/ as does the part about neo jumping inside smith... :huh: and again, the walls bend. at the end, when neo is on the phone, he says "i can feel you now". this again makes me think he's not human, at least partially. and finally, what are your predictions for the matrix: revolutions? Agents are machines that are hardwired into the Matrix. The cops are with the agents because Neo has actually been committing crimes using his PC. So he's pretty much wanted by the police, too. Seeing as they're agent, I don't see how hard it would be to prove to the cops you're a higher authority figure. Second question. There are only 3 agents in the original Matrix. They couldn't possibly guard all the phone lines. And you can bet that a lone officer guarding a phone booth would be NO match for Neo or Trinity... And yes. The agents DO pick up the signals from that phone lines. That's why you see Agent Smith holding onto his earpiece when the phone in the subway station rings. He hears the phone ringing, and knows Neo and Trinity are going to it. The agents tell Neo that one of his lives has a future because he is a threat to them, and they know that Morpheus contacted Neo. Remember the office scene with the cell phone? The agents are onto Neo and are trying to get Neo to tell them what Morpheus told him. I'm guessing that silver liquid is some sort of catalyst to start the whole "awakening" process. The humans "scorched" the sky because the machines were getting their power from the sun. Humans attempted to block out the sunlight. But now the machines don't need the sun anymore, they can feast on humans. The agent used in the "agent training" program is Agent Smith. He's like the ringleader of the agents. Remember, there are only 3 agents in the original Matrix... That's all that I'm willing to answer atm, heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoCahill Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 you can't really watch the first movie to try to figure out the complete plot because that was made to stand on its own, they next two movies were written after the first one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazzz Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 In Simulacra and Simulation, French social theorist Jean Baudrillard argues that our "postmodern" culture is a world of signs that have made a fundamental break from referring to "reality." Googled "simulacra and simulation". http://www.uta.edu/english/hawk/semiotics/baud.htm there's a good read ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazzz Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 you can't really watch the first movie to try to figure out the complete plot because that was made to stand on its own, they next two movies were written after the first one are you sure they weren't all written at once and the W.'s just didn't let anyone know? They have clauses in their contracts that allow them utmost secrecy in doing whatever they want and not having to talk about it. Just because there was a break between the release dates doesn't mean they weren't all written together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Dragon Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 why does switch call neo "coppertop" in the car? he doesn't have orange hair :blink:what's the machine that neo meets shortly after it wakes up? it looks like it's controlled by morpheus, but wouldn't the machines find it in the "fields" and destroy it? why does tank always answer as "operator"? it's not like someone's going to dial the number randomly (or is it?) why does trinity try to stop the bullet when smith shoots at her in the phone booth? she can't do it if she's not the one, right? Coppertop is also the name of batteries. It's one of the AI machines - it releases Neo in order to have him killed, but before he gets to the killing part he gets picked up the the neb. Because that's what they're called... They're not a phone operator, they're the ship's operator. Tank was the operator of the neb., Sparks is the operator of the logos. She's not trying to stop a bullet, there's a truck coming at the phone booth, and she puts her hand up the same way that people kinda squint and turn away before they get shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimeryme Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Coppertop is a reference to batteries; as in Duracell (the copper top). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Veteran Posted July 30, 2003 Author Veteran Share Posted July 30, 2003 Agents are machines that are hardwired into the Matrix.The cops are with the agents because Neo has actually been committing crimes using his PC. So he's pretty much wanted by the police, too. Seeing as they're agent, I don't see how hard it would be to prove to the cops you're a higher authority figure. Second question. There are only 3 agents in the original Matrix. They couldn't possibly guard all the phone lines. And you can bet that a lone officer guarding a phone booth would be NO match for Neo or Trinity... And yes. The agents DO pick up the signals from that phone lines. That's why you see Agent Smith holding onto his earpiece when the phone in the subway station rings. He hears the phone ringing, and knows Neo and Trinity are going to it. The agents tell Neo that one of his lives has a future because he is a threat to them, and they know that Morpheus contacted Neo. Remember the office scene with the cell phone? The agents are onto Neo and are trying to get Neo to tell them what Morpheus told him. I'm guessing that silver liquid is some sort of catalyst to start the whole "awakening" process. The humans "scorched" the sky because the machines were getting their power from the sun. Humans attempted to block out the sunlight. But now the machines don't need the sun anymore, they can feast on humans. The agent used in the "agent training" program is Agent Smith. He's like the ringleader of the agents. Remember, there are only 3 agents in the original Matrix... no, why do the cops trust the agents? there are only 3 agents? :blink: and i thought they were computer programs, not machines. if they were programs, they could just create hundreds of agents, and they could have as many as they wanted. they can't possibly hear every phone ringing in the world. :huh: i guessed that too, but does anyone have any idea what it is/how it works? yes but wouldn't the machines need power until they started to grow humans and collect the heat/power from them? i understand agent smith is the "ringleader" of the agents, but i still don't see how there are only 3 of them. you can't really watch the first movie to try to figure out the complete plot because that was made to stand on its own, they next two movies were written after the first one why not? :whistle: thanks glazzz :) Coppertop is also the name of batteries.It's one of the AI machines - it releases Neo in order to have him killed, but before he gets to the killing part he gets picked up the the neb. Because that's what they're called... They're not a phone operator, they're the ship's operator. Tank was the operator of the neb., Sparks is the operator of the logos. She's not trying to stop a bullet, there's a truck coming at the phone booth, and she puts her hand up the same way that people kinda squint and turn away before they get shot. what does neo have to do with a battery? :blink: AHHH, just got it. :pinch: thanks ;) oic yeah i know, but couldn't he answer "hey trin, you're looking awfully sexy today" :shifty: :ninja: putting her hand up is a reflex? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjordan2001 Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Damn that's a lot of questions.... no, why do the cops trust the agents?there are only 3 agents? and i thought they were computer programs, not machines. if they were programs, they could just create hundreds of agents, and they could have as many as they wanted. they can't possibly hear every phone ringing in the world. That's basically what Smith does in the second movie, he clones himself out of people in the matrix. And most of your questions have to do with they don't want to draw attention, they just want people to live in the matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjordan2001 Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 i've been wanting to make a thread about this for quite some time, and today i had a free day, so i thought i'd watch the matrix in full while making this thread and just post any thoughts/ideas i had about it. i asked a lot of questions and listed some of my own thoughts/theories, so if you can't read the whole post, that's fine (i just previewed it and god is it long); just post on one or two things if you want. also, feel free to post your own questions/thoughts as well. i typed these questions as i watched the movie, but some of them might seem out of context. this is just because something reminded me of something earlier or later in the movie, or of something in the matrix: reloaded.where do the agents come from? in the first scene, they show up with a bunch of cops like they're FBI or something. the cops have to believe they are somehow above them; the agents can't just "show up" and expect the cops to follow them around like their little workers. > Exactly. The police think they're top secret government agents or something like that. Which brings up another question...what sort of government do they have in the matrix? why do you need a "hard line" to get out of the matrix. and what is a "hard line"? i know it's some sort of special phone line; but couldn't the agent's just keep guards next to all the hard lines? smith seems to know where neo is going at the end of the movie; he beats neo there and that's when he kills him. > Smith knows where he's going at the end because he gets data from the hobo's mind. why can't the agents just listen to the signal from the nebuchadnezzar and track it down? why do they need to run a search? > They do track them down several times. That's why they're always careful when broadcasting. the title of the book neo uses to hide his "stash" in, "Simulacra & Simulation"; does that mean anything? > No clue, look at what someone put. when the agents are questioning him, smith says "one of these lives has a future, and one of them does not." my thought is that from what i've seen with the matrix: reloaded, the agents/machines might be manipulating neo to do what they want (choose one of the doors later, with the architect). this could explain why they simply don't kill neo when they get the chance. they need him. so does smith mean that neo's hacker life has a future? or does he mean what he says, trying to look like some sort of federal agent, wanting neo to work just like everyone else. >It could go either way. Smith himself doesn't want Neo to become the One because that means one step closer to freeing Zion. Neo himself went against that and stood with the hacker Neo. the agents obviously have the ability to modify the matrix, or certain aspects of it, however they want. smith does this when he makes neo's mouth disappear. it also happens when everyone tries to exit the matrix; the agents change the structure of the building. so why can't they just instantly solve many of their own problems and change the matrix to suit their needs? > Like in my last reply, they don't want to get people suspicious, otherwise people will begin to know what's going on. why does switch call neo "coppertop" in the car? he doesn't have orange hair :blink: > Because he's a battery. what is the importance of the shattered mirror turning to liquid? i know it covers neo soon after it morphs, but what does the liquid itself do? > The liquid itself does nothing, but it sort of represents him dying in the real world as they search to find his signal. when morpheus, trinity, etc. "load" things into the matrix, do they just appear out of nowhere? this "residual self image" thing morpheus talks about later, what if i was in the matrix and i just wanted to change my hairstyle or clothes or something, would it just instantly change? this kind of happens when morpheus tells tank to switch from the sparring program to the jump program; morpheus and neo's clothes change, along with the whole environment. later, when they go to see the oracle, they seem to just appear in the room. when they leave the matrix however, they need to be using a phone connected to a "hard line". how do they load into the matrix? >Yes, changes are immediate. Maybe they just skipped to the room, I think they always use the loading program. what's the bubbling water behind each of the pods when neo "wakes up" in his pod? > Not sure, maybe food being fed in. what's the machine that neo meets shortly after it wakes up? it looks like it's controlled by morpheus, but wouldn't the machines find it in the "fields" and destroy it? > I think it thinks Neo is dead so it flushes him. when the humans scorched the sky, why couldn't the machines just clean it up? and what do they mean "scorched" the sky? it looks like it's a constant storm... > Maybe they don't know how. Scorched the sky probably means used some sort of bomb (perhaps nuclear). morpheus says when the matrix was created there was a man born inside who could change whatever he wanted. i assume he's talking about the anomaly referenced in the matrix: reloaded. but this adds speculation to the thought of nested matrices; if neo is the anomaly, then how could neo exist in the matrix before morpheus found him? > Neo is still mostly human, my thoughts it that they put a program in him which is activated by him. in the matrix: reloaded, the architect says that this will be the 6th time zion was destroyed. how can it be destroyed more than once if the theory of multiple matrices isn't true? > There have been multiple matrices. Each time they have the One choose the doors and each time they have chosen to rebuild Zion. I guess they destroy Zion each time before the matrix needs to be rebooted so that the outsiders don't get to be too many. why do the machines have to dig to get to zion in the matrix: reloaded? zion ships can simply fly through tunnels or something to get there, why can't the machines? > Because it's heavily guarded. why does the ground move/morph when neo falls? this happens later with the helicopter scene and later in reloaded when neo flies. but why does it happen? > It's basically the shockwave in slow motion. why does the agent look like smith in the "agent training" program with the "woman in the red dress"? there are many more different agents than just smith. why did mouse (he coded the program) use smith's image? or is that just a hollywood trick to make smith appear more evil in the sequels? > Maybe it's the agent they see the most. It's also because he's the head agent, so it's a movie character dealie. how does an agent "take over" someone else's body? what happens to that person in the real world? how does their mind handle it? or don't they? are they disconnected from the matrix; do they just die? why do the agents need a person's body in the matrix? can't they just appear when no one is looking and everyone thinks they are just another person? > I believe they sleep, or they could die. Everyone the agents take over has been killed or the body has been kept, so it's hard to tell. I guess it's mostly just a way of getting to a point faster. morpheus says that the agents are "the gatekeepers". gatekeepers to what? > The outside of the matrix I guess. why does morpheus put a hat on when the squiddies are looking for them? > Hmm, not sure I remember that part. Maybe it's something to help him see outside? :unsure: if you can bend the rules of the matrix and jump extremely high/far, punch harder, etc., why can't you run faster? > I guess they can, but most of them can't keep it up, so it's an endurance thing. when did cypher get a chance to visit with smith and negotiate? he would have to be in the matrix, and i doubt morpheus would let him go inside by himself. not only that, but when and how did he arrange this meeting? > did the machines/agents actually plan on inserting cypher back into the matrix? or were they just using him and going to kill him later? > They were just using him of course. why does cyper light a cigar that's already lit? :huh: :rofl: > Goof? :pinch: in the car, on the way to see the oracle, neo says he has these memories from his life, but none of them ever happened. i think it wouldn't be wrong to say they happened, even thought they physically didn't. you still technically interacted with people and an environment, even though it's not physical. > Well, he meant he thought they were all in the real world. in the oracle's (apartment?), she has a rack of spoons on the wall. are these there specifically for practice? :rofl: > lol, maybe...But she does like to cook so... spoon boy says it's "not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself", but when neo looks at him, there are several bent spoons laying on the floor. if the spoon doesn't bend (it's just an object in the matrix, what prevents it from changing?) how does neo see the spoons as bent if the spoon boy is the one that bends? > It's a metaphor of sorts I guess. when the oracle's assistant tells neo she's ready for him, the spoon changes back to normal. why? > I guess he changes it back or it just bends back on it's own since he's not focusing on it. when neo asked how she knew he would break the vase, the oracle says "oh, what's really going to bake your noodle later on is would you still have broken it if i hadn't said anything?" what are your thoughts? i used to think about things like this all the time when i was about 10-14. now, school is taking up more time, i have more responsibilities, and i don't have enough time to think about things like this anymore :( > I think he still would have broken it. was the oracle just playing with neo? she seemed to leave the answer up to neo about him being "the one". > She was making him think about it for himself. when smith is talking to morpheus, he says that the first matrix failed, and entire crops were lost, blah blah blah. some believed they lacked the programming language to describe our perfect world. but as AI, couldn't the machines design any programming language to describe whatever they want? > Sure they could, but back then they didn't know what the humans wanted. if the leader of every ship is given codes to zion's mainframe, and smith is trying to get morpheus to tell him, the codes can't be that complicated. why couldn't the machines just brute force attack the mainframe and get into it? > It's heavily guarded and they probably don't have access to it easily. the agents are just programs running on one of the machines' matrix servers right? why do they need to talk to communicate to each other like they do when they find out cypher has failed? > So the audience knows what's up. smith says that humans aren't actually mammals; instead, we're similar to virii. i happen to somewhat agree with him. today's society is complete crap, and especially in america, we live like pigs, most of us thinking only of ourselves. > Yes, good social commentary by Smith :yes: tank asks neo what he needs, besides a miracle. neo says "guns. lots of guns." well how does tank take everything from the loading program and insert it into the matrix? i guess this goes back to how do people/agents get inserted into the matrix? > The loading program is part of the matrix. They can change attributes of the matrix and take things in with them. why do the agents have ear pieces? again, they communicate by talking, and they are programs on the server, so what's the point of the ear pieces? > It's to symbolize that they are tied in, it's their link that makes them agents. Notice how Smith says he's free without his earpiece. He is no longer an agent like the others. smith says "once zion is destroyed, there is no need for me to be here". i'm assuming smith is an AI, and if he is, wouldn't he be afraid of death? every living thing i can think of fears or avoids death. wouldn't an AI be the same? > He's hoping to get out of the matrix somehow. Through a body or something. why does everyone wear sunglasses? :rofl: > Because they look cool :cool: the agent on the roof (who took the pilot's body), once he's done shooting at neo, says "only human." in the matrix: reloaded, one of the agents (the same one?) says "still only human". what's with this whole neo being "only human" thing? i'm sure it has something to do with neo going into a coma at the end of reloaded, but i can't figure out what. is neo just a part of the program of the matrix like the architect implies? if so, how is he able to exit the matrix and exist in the "real world"? > I think he has some programming embedded in his mind. His base is still human though. why does tank always answer as "operator"? it's not like someone's going to dial the number randomly (or is it?) > Well, he is sort of an operator, he operates the stuff for them. why does trinity try to stop the bullet when smith shoots at her in the phone booth? she can't do it if she's not the one, right? > I think he's more panicing there than trying to stop it. the whole thing about trinity reviving neo needs explaining. :laugh: :/ > Neo, maybe being part program, existed in the matrix, I think the whole thing with her "reawakening" him was a coincidence as he reawakens himself. as does the part about neo jumping inside smith... :huh: and again, the walls bend. > He was pretty much ripping apart his code. The wall bend was just him showing off his strength to the other agents. at the end, when neo is on the phone, he says "i can feel you now". this again makes me think he's not human, at least partially. > Like I said I think he has a program in his head. and finally, what are your predictions for the matrix: revolutions? > Not sure, Reloaded kinda took a turn in a direction I wasn't expecting really. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 jesus... there are so many hidden plots!! AHHHGG *watches matrix again* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empty Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 i hate it when people over analyse films, just watch and enjoy. also, this is media room stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-outcast- Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 where do the agents come from? in the first scene, they show up with a bunch of cops like they're FBI or something. the cops have to believe they are somehow above them; the agents can't just "show up" and expect the cops to follow them around like their little workers. The agents are programs in the matrix and the police are made to believe they are government agents, and have authority over them. Maybe they are saying that we should think about who we are listening to, who is in authority, are they the good guys or the bad guys. why can't the agents just listen to the signal from the nebuchadnezzar and track it down? why do they need to run a search? I think the search is because the ship is in an area where the machines dont have surveillance over everything, Trinity says something like they are abandoned caverns or something like that, basically the machines cant track them down because as easily since its in the real world, the pirates also somehow disguise their signla and transmit from locations that arent easily traceable. Something about this is said in Reloaded. when the agents are questioning him, smith says "one of these lives has a future, and one of them does not." my thought is that from what i've seen with the matrix: reloaded, the agents/machines might be manipulating neo to do what they want (choose one of the doors later, with the architect). this could explain why they simply don't kill neo when they get the chance. they need him. so does smith mean that neo's hacker life has a future? or does he mean what he says, trying to look like some sort of federal agent, wanting neo to work just like everyone else. The agents do not know he is The One and hoped to use him to get Morpheus, who is destined to find The One, and I think the agents knew that. The life that has the future is his normal life, they wanted Neo to stay in the illusion world and forget what Morpheus would want him to do. the agents obviously have the ability to modify the matrix, or certain aspects of it, however they want. smith does this when he makes neo's mouth disappear. it also happens when everyone tries to exit the matrix; the agents change the structure of the building. so why can't they just instantly solve many of their own problems and change the matrix to suit their needs? They can change aspects of the matrix but still have to keep it realistically a world, it would probably be difficult to change everything whenever something goes wrong and reprogram everyones memories. what's the machine that neo meets shortly after it wakes up? it looks like it's controlled by morpheus, but wouldn't the machines find it in the "fields" and destroy it? I think when he becomes conscious and disconnected from the matrix it tells the machines he is "dead", and that machine comes to unplug him and sends his body to be processed for feeding but of course he is intercepted by the ship. when the humans scorched the sky, why couldn't the machines just clean it up? and what do they mean "scorched" the sky? it looks like it's a constant storm... Second Renaissance says the humans sent some black **** into the atmosphere I dont remember what it was, but the machines maybe determined it would just be more efficient to take the humans instead of trying to somehow clean that up. You should watch Animatrix it says what actually happened there morpheus says when the matrix was created there was a man born inside who could change whatever he wanted. i assume he's talking about the anomaly referenced in the matrix: reloaded. but this adds speculation to the thought of nested matrices; if neo is the anomaly, then how could neo exist in the matrix before morpheus found him? Neo isnt the original anomaly he is just another human born with that ability. The anomaly keeps coming up in different people with each version of the matrix. in the matrix: reloaded, the architect says that this will be the 6th time zion was destroyed. how can it be destroyed more than once if the theory of multiple matrices isn't true? I'm guessing, but the machines destroy Zion, then after the One picks the humans who start the new version of Zion they are returned to the city where they can start building again. This is how the knowledge of The One and the Matrix is continued on through new versions and how people are still being rescued out of the matrix even though its the 6th version. So it's not a Zion in a matrix that they are destroying its an actual city that is wiped out, thats my guess anyway. why do the machines have to dig to get to zion in the matrix: reloaded? zion ships can simply fly through tunnels or something to get there, why can't the machines? Guessing the front door to Zion is hidden, as are the other doors, but then again, the machines should know where Zion is, otherwise I would be contradicting my last answer... :s Hmmmm why does the ground move/morph when neo falls? this happens later with the helicopter scene and later in reloaded when neo flies. but why does it happen? Probably stylistic or they are saying that the windows would ripple like that if something hit them but it happens to fast you cant see it. Its exaggerated but it looks cool. In the jump its programmed like that so you don't die when you fall. morpheus says that the agents are "the gatekeepers". gatekeepers to what? They hold all the keys to getting anywhere in the Matrix, they make it impossible for anyone except The One to do anything in the matrix. They have to get past the agents to get to other programs. why does morpheus put a hat on when the squiddies are looking for them? It could be to hide the shine was the oracle just playing with neo? she seemed to leave the answer up to neo about him being "the one". The Oracle knew all along that Neo was The One. She says 'being The One is just like being in love, no one can tell you you're in love, you just know it, through and through.' then she looks at his hands and his mouth, and asks him what he thinks. But if you watch the scene she never actually tells him he is not The One, because she can't, but he leaves the room thinking he is not The One because of what she told him, or didn't tell him. The truth is he just needed to discover it for himself. So she wasn't playing around she was letting him figure it out for himself. when smith is talking to morpheus, he says that the first matrix failed, and entire crops were lost, blah blah blah. some believed they lacked the programming language to describe our perfect world. but as AI, couldn't the machines design any programming language to describe whatever they want? No, just because they are AI doesn't mean that at all smith says that humans aren't actually mammals; instead, we're similar to virii. i happen to somewhat agree with him. today's society is complete crap, and especially in america, we live like pigs, most of us thinking only of ourselves. The example of how we spread and use up resources is true, we do have that in common with a virus, but that's only one thing. Humans don't have too many things in common with virii that I can think of. Smith mentioned an interesting and suprising comparison but then again there are many, many things we do that are positive and that no other organism that we know of can do. There are two sides to the coin the agent on the roof (who took the pilot's body), once he's done shooting at neo, says "only human." in the matrix: reloaded, one of the agents (the same one?) says "still only human". what's with this whole neo being "only human" thing? i'm sure it has something to do with neo going into a coma at the end of reloaded, but i can't figure out what. is neo just a part of the program of the matrix like the architect implies? if so, how is he able to exit the matrix and exist in the "real world"? He is human, that means that he can be killed in the matrix like anyone else, only its a hell of a lot harder to kill him. But he bleeds, and he is not a program like the agents are so he is at a disadvantage in that way. why does tank always answer as "operator"? it's not like someone's going to dial the number randomly (or is it?) Thats just a rank/duty on the ship, like Captain at the end, when neo is on the phone, he says "i can feel you now". this again makes me think he's not human, at least partially. I think that is also to do with the part of Smith that got copied into him, or it could just be that he is aware of the agents just like he can see through the matrix when he sees the code, he can see through the illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadishTM Veteran Posted July 30, 2003 Veteran Share Posted July 30, 2003 Moved to The Media Room :rolleyes: Radish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Veteran Posted July 30, 2003 Author Veteran Share Posted July 30, 2003 kjordan and outcast, thanks a lot :D :happy: and don't roll your eyes at me radish :p :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadishTM Veteran Posted July 30, 2003 Veteran Share Posted July 30, 2003 ^ :rolleyes: .... Radish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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