UK Venue Pro: Good News!

[Prince Charming]

Finally some good news in the UK for those of you who have been patiently waiting for what could arguably be described as one of the finest WP7 launch handsets. Dell's Venue Pro, which has been beset with engineering issues and manufacturing delays, affecting its US and UK releases, has finally got a firmed date for shipping: 6th January 2011. This is pretty good news - it was delayed through to January (day unspecified) back in November, causing many preorderers to choose a different handset. My earlier sources had it down for around the 11th, so a release on the 6th is fantastic. Also a minor note - it's price has also dropped by around ?10 since its original listing on Clove at ?449 inc. VAT.

Sauces:

http://wmpoweruser.c...h-january-2010/

http://www.clove.co.uk/dell-venue-pro Original Post updated - the Venue Pro is expected in the UK mid-february:

http://wmpoweruser.com/dell-venue-pro-delayed-until-mid-feb-in-uk/

[tomwarren Veteran]

I'd be tempted to believe the January 11th date more. Expansys is currently listing this date and that seems more realistic.

[Mr. Gibs]

Finally some good news in the UK for those of you who have been patiently waiting for what could arguably be described as one of the finest WP7 launch handsets. Dell's Venue Pro, which has been beset with engineering issues and manufacturing delays, affecting its US and UK releases, has finally got a firmed date for shipping: 6th January 2011. This is pretty good news - it was delayed through to January (day unspecified) back in November, causing many preorderers to choose a different handset. My earlier sources had it down for around the 11th, so a release on the 6th is fantastic. Also a minor note - it's price has also dropped by around £10 since its original listing on Clove at £449 inc. VAT.

Yeh I highly doubt that. If you order one in the US from Dell right now it won't ship until the 10th, so good luck getting them in UK by the 6th lol.

[Prince Charming]

Yeh I highly doubt that. If you order one in the US from Dell right now it won't ship until the 10th, so good luck getting them in UK by the 6th lol.

They're different models, as far as I understand. Tom - you've got a point about it may be later, but Clove have been a bit cagey about posting any specific dates, whereas Expansys have been happier to just slide their dates. Based on that I'm inclined to believe it, but you do have a valid case to take it with a pinch of salt. I ordered mine on the 26th October, and a few days really doesn't make much of an issue to me at this stage in the game. Still, just sharing some news :)I'm waiting on a response from Clove as to where their date has come from, and I'll update accordingly.

[George P Global Moderator]

I thought clove would send me an email about this at lest, but I guess not. Oh well, I always new i'd be getting it after CES or after MS ships the first update for it with the luck I have.

[jakem1]

I'd consider one with 16GB but 8GB is too little :(

[Mr. Gibs]

They're different models, as far as I understand. Tom - you've got a point about it may be later, but Clove have been a bit cagey about posting any specific dates, whereas Expansys have been happier to just slide their dates. Based on that I'm inclined to believe it, but you do have a valid case to take it with a pinch of salt. I ordered mine on the 26th October, and a few days really doesn't make much of an issue to me at this stage in the game. Still, just sharing some news :)I'm waiting on a response from Clove as to where their date has come from, and I'll update accordingly.

Um they're the exact same phone with the exact same radio (just with different bands) and they come from the exact same ODM. If its taking dell 18 days + to get a model to the US, I highly highly doubt they're going to be able to get it to the UK by the 6th.

Sorry they've screwed up the launch of the VP enough for me to trust anything they say about shipping dates anymore.

[Prince Charming]

Um they're the exact same phone with the exact same radio (just with different bands) and they come from the exact same ODM. If its taking dell 18 days + to get a model to the US, I highly highly doubt they're going to be able to get it to the UK by the 6th.

Sorry they've screwed up the launch of the VP enough for me to trust anything they say about shipping dates anymore.

Fair enough, I can appreciate your viewpoint. I ordered mine back in October, so I'm just patiently waiting. Not really much else I can do. I know the hardware is the same, but the very fact they're on different bands means they're different units (I wasn't implying the UK hardware was otherwise different), which means units are destined for the UK, or the US, but delays in the US (due to replacement issues/returns being fulfilled) do not affect the UK. General manufacturing delays affects everyone, however.

I'm not sure what to make of Clove's date change myself - I can only assume they're going on information supplied to them by Dell - they were previously just stating January 2011, and not a specific day. I've contacted Clove and I'm awaiting a response regarding where this info came from, though.

[Mr. Gibs]

Well here's another lie from Dell. They claimed the device would ship with 512mb RAM...instead the shipped devices only have 256mb RAM. :rolleyes:

GJ Dell, GJ. Way to screw up a launch...delays, lies etc Guess I'm canceling my order and going with the HD7.

[George P Global Moderator]

I think people are jumping the gun. I'll expect more info once they break open the phone like they do with the others and see what the hardware says. Or hell, anyone bother to even ask dell about it? It doesn't look like it. I've seen two people with the same phone post on another site two different numbers for RAM using that app, so which one is right?

[Mr. Gibs]

I think people are jumping the gun. I'll expect more info once they break open the phone like they do with the others and see what the hardware says. Or hell, anyone bother to even ask dell about it? It doesn't look like it. I've seen two people with the same phone post on another site two different numbers for RAM using that app, so which one is right?

I've seen 2 different apps, on 2 different phones show up as 225mb. One is the picture you see on WMPowerUser and the other:

Sure you can ask Dell, but you'll find out one of two things:

1. They're customer service staff is completely incompetent...one even said the phone doesn't have RAM.

2. The Venue Pro's technical specifications is now conveniently missing the "Memory" section.

I mean I assume the application isn't doing some sort of sorcery and putting in a random number but there is a class that you can call to pull device information from: "DeviceExtendedProperties"...and the property name for RAM size is "DeviceTotalMemory."

Now Microsoft states that DeviceTotalMemory will be less than the actual RAM and you can see that with the Omnia 7, one is showing 488mb and one showing 476mb. Logically the Omnia 7 would have 512mb RAM and parts of it are locked off. The dell venue pro, on the other hand, shows as 225mb. Now either Microsoft coded the DeviceExtendedProperties class completely wrong or the phone only has 256mb RAM (with parts of it getting locked off for w/e reason).

[Prince Charming]

Why does the RAM matter? I'm pretty sure Dell never actually stated how much it had (websites and forums have made guesses). Its spec doesn't really matter as long as it meets the WP7 requirements and runs everything great. By all accounts, it does. This is a self-created problem where websites have made a guess at how much RAM it does or doesn't have, then measured it using a method that is stated by Microsoft to 'be less than the actual amount of device memory, but can be used for determining memory consumption requirements'. This is a 'problem' that's been invented and engineered by the community. It's ridiculous.

[Mr. Gibs]

Why does the RAM matter? I'm pretty sure Dell never actually stated how much it had (websites and forums have made guesses). Its spec doesn't really matter as long as it meets the WP7 requirements and runs everything great. By all accounts, it does. This is a self-created problem where websites have made a guess at how much RAM it does or doesn't have, then measured it using a method that is stated by Microsoft to 'be less than the actual amount of device memory, but can be used for determining memory consumption requirements'. This is a 'problem' that's been invented and engineered by the community. It's ridiculous.

Um no. The dell website STATED that the Venue Pro had 512mb. Now if you go and click the specifications link on their site, the memory section has mysteriously vanished. I know this since I've been on that website about half a billion times in my wait for Dell to release the phone.

And as for runs everything great, why don't you go take a look at the XDA forums and see how many lag issues / reboots people are having to do on their Venue Pros.

Yes the DeviceTotalMemory shows less than the actual amount of RAM (I even said that in my previous post) but why is it showing near accurate amounts for every other WP7 device but the Venue Pro? Why is the Venue Pro so far off if it actually has 512mb?

[~Johnny]

Why does the RAM matter? I'm pretty sure Dell never actually stated how much it had (websites and forums have made guesses). Its spec doesn't really matter as long as it meets the WP7 requirements and runs everything great. By all accounts, it does. This is a self-created problem where websites have made a guess at how much RAM it does or doesn't have, then measured it using a method that is stated by Microsoft to 'be less than the actual amount of device memory, but can be used for determining memory consumption requirements'. This is a 'problem' that's been invented and engineered by the community. It's ridiculous.

Well it's a measure of how much free RAM the OS has to spare for apps, so effectively it is a measure of how much RAM we can use. Also worth noting that other devices, such as the Omnia 7, report 475.45MB of RAM available - so not a problem for DVP users now, but will be problem when multitasking gets here. Silverlight apps are generally more memory intensive that those of iOS or Andriod, and I imagine people will easily be hitting the memory limit roof between 3-5 apps on the DVP, though that might be dependent on how close Microsoft's solution will be to actual multitasking.<img>

[Prince Charming]

I don't really think you'll be seeing *proper* multitasking, per se, perhaps the opening up of various background services and letting apps register for events. The RAM ceiling for WP7 apps is 90MB. Even the Omnia 7's 475MB of RAM doesn't really let it have a pile of apps open without running out of RAM (if you assume the worst, and you kind of have to). Our beloved overjob, Mr Steve Jobs had one thing right - if you see a task manager, you've blown it. Of course, iOS subsequently blew it by including a task manager. I firmly believe that a proper solution to allowing tasks to apparently do stuff when they're not running is a superior solution to the design equivalent of using an atomic bomb to drive a nail in. 'Proper' multitasking is a paradigm from the desktop that doesn't really apply on smartphones as you can only see, and interact with a single app.

[George P Global Moderator]

I also agree that MS will do multitasking much the same way iOS4 does it, a set number of background tasks that apps can use, nothing more nothing less. And really the way iOS4 does it it accounts for, imo, 90%+ of "multitasking" needs out there right now.

Really, if you make a list of things you want to keep running in the BG on a phone it's pretty limited, off the top of my head I'd say it's basically this...

GPS/Nav

Any type of file transfer, sync etc

Audio (already done by the Zune app etc)

Browsing (done by IE)

loading of apps like games, so you can start an app up and do something else while it finishes loading a level for example.

real-time chat/IM like say IRC which I use a lot.

I think that's about it really, what else could you want to keep doing in the background on a phone? Something that constantly updates or checks for updates could just as well fall under the "loading of apps in the BG" along with games, as in, it gets a background task that keeps running till it's done then the app will save state and wait for the user, or it can just keep doing what it's doing till you close it.

As for a task manager, I don't think WP7 needs one in the classic sense, maybe a nice app switcher to boost the back button but that's about it. You can then close apps though that, maybe with a double tap or a tap and hold of the back button which brings up a list of apps you've used, then the ones still doing something can have a icon letting you know they're still running. From there you can have something else which lets you close them etc.

[I am Reid]

I don't really think you'll be seeing *proper* multitasking, per se, perhaps the opening up of various background services and letting apps register for events. The RAM ceiling for WP7 apps is 90MB. Even the Omnia 7's 475MB of RAM doesn't really let it have a pile of apps open without running out of RAM (if you assume the worst, and you kind of have to). Our beloved overjob, Mr Steve Jobs had one thing right - if you see a task manager, you've blown it. Of course, iOS subsequently blew it by including a task manager. I firmly believe that a proper solution to allowing tasks to apparently do stuff when they're not running is a superior solution to the design equivalent of using an atomic bomb to drive a nail in. 'Proper' multitasking is a paradigm from the desktop that doesn't really apply on smartphones as you can only see, and interact with a single app.

My WebOS phone does multitasking just fine

[Prince Charming]

My WebOS phone does multitasking just fine

Thanks for your input, but I don't see the relevancy of that to this thread. There's absolutely no way you can draw any kind of comparisons such as 'WebOS can multitask so WP7 can'. The allowed limits on RAM usage, the framework, the app models are entirely different.

[George P Global Moderator]

Aren't WebOS apps just HTML mostly or something? Hence the "web" in webOS. They're not running on some framework like SL, XNA, .NET, Java etc etc.

[Mr. Gibs]

I don't really think you'll be seeing *proper* multitasking, per se, perhaps the opening up of various background services and letting apps register for events. The RAM ceiling for WP7 apps is 90MB. Even the Omnia 7's 475MB of RAM doesn't really let it have a pile of apps open without running out of RAM (if you assume the worst, and you kind of have to).

Not strictly true.

The application must not exceed 90 MB of RAM usage. However, on devices that have more than 256 MB of memory, an application can exceed 90 MB of RAM usage. The DeviceExtendedProperties class can be used to query the amount of memory on the device and modify the application behavior at runtime to take advantage of additional memory. For more information, see the DeviceExtendedProperties class in MSDN.

Can I Go Above 90MB?

Sure - but be careful! If you're app is memory intensive and would benefit from a little extra breathing room, then feel free to add some extra logic which dynamically loads more items into memory until a certain limit is hit. Note though that there is no defined limit above the 90MB barrier, so expect this to be clarified in the future.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oren/archive/2010/09/28/wp7-perf-tip-5-check-your-memory-usage.aspx

[Mr. Gibs]

In other news, it turns out the DVP camera isn't all that bad.

Basically the camera is the same one that's on the iPhone4...but the pictures taken by each are quite different. While this may be due to a firmware / software issue, it turns out it's also because of the back cover. Basically, Dell used a ****ty plastic that ruins pictures lol:

The picture on the left is without the back cover and the one on the right is with the cover (thanks to jfellows on xda for those pics).

And also, what the pictures look like when the lens is replaced with a macro / wideangle lens: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=892586

[Plok]

I was really ready to replace my aging HTC Touch Diamond with this phone. But the issues just keep piling up. There is the hissing sound when using headphones reported by owners on XDA forums, and now possibly the low amount of RAM. Sure, everything might be running fine now with the current amount of RAM, but do you remember the first batch of android phones? Due to space restrictions (i believe it was low amount of actual storage and not RAM, but it does make a good example) they were told that they can't get a new OS upgrade due to HW limitations. Dell Venue Pro is beautiful phone, and I'd get it in a heart beat - but it's been cursed with smaller and bigger problems even before it was officially released. It's just a wishful thinking that those problems would stop now... those 256mb of RAM might very well come back in a couple of months and bite you in the ass.

[Prince Charming]

In other news, it turns out the DVP camera isn't all that bad.

Basically the camera is the same one that's on the iPhone4...but the pictures taken by each are quite different. While this may be due to a firmware / software issue, it turns out it's also because of the back cover. Basically, Dell used a ****ty plastic that ruins pictures lol:

The picture on the left is without the back cover and the one on the right is with the cover (thanks to jfellows on xda for those pics).

And also, what the pictures look like when the lens is replaced with a macro / wideangle lens: http://forum.xda-dev...ad.php?t=892586

As a photographer I can tell you the image on the right is suffering for motion blur, with movements typing from shake you'd see on a cellphone camera. It may be that the back cover's glass blocks a significant amount of light to the sensor, forcing a longer exposure, but those two images are not directly comparable.

[Mr. Gibs]

As a photographer I can tell you the image on the right is suffering for motion blur, with movements typing from shake you'd see on a cellphone camera. It may be that the back cover's glass blocks a significant amount of light to the sensor, forcing a longer exposure, but those two images are not directly comparable.

Go look at any pictures from the Dell Venue Pro then :rolleyes:

Obviously all of them must have super shaky hands since like 90% of them are blurry, and look just like the picture on the right.

[Prince Charming]

I guess this thread is kind of serving as the Venue Pro thread, for the time being, so I'll just put this here:

http://mobilitydigest.com/speed-test-dell-venue-pro-vs-htc-hd7/

The Venue Pro is smoking the HD7 in boot time, and loading times, and it lines up with the reviews I've seen saying the Venue Pro is the (subjectively) fastest WP7 device they've tested. This is intriuging because

1) the venue pro and the HD7 both use MSDHC cards. I'd assume Dell are using better cards, and/or wrote better drivers.

2) the venue pro (apparently) has 256MB of RAM on board. I personally doubt this and I'm waiting to hear it from dell, but still, food for thought.