I knew Mac's were overpriced, but Jesus!

[alisalem]

I think the people who complain about Apple prices are the ones who want to run OS X. It would be really lame to be an Apple hater and start complaining about their prices. If you don't like them, leave them alone.

[Dysphoria]

@OP: Thanks for trolling

PS, I personally would not touch the Samsung and Fujitsu laptops with a 10 foot poll... but apparently some people buy them.

[LaP]

I don't get the "stability" argument. I understand the build quality (that pretty much goes without saying, you don't find other laptops like that). But stability? As opposed to what exactly?

Other laptops with good build quality are generally expensive too. Less but still expensive.

From my own experience 600$ laptop are ****. Now this is my experience only and i may be just unlucky. But after having 2 cheap laptops break on me in less than 3 years my next one will not be a cheap one.

The difference between laptops and desktops is laptops are not just a case. A desktop is a case with computer parts inside it. If the computer parts are good it'll be good. And if one of the part break you can replace it yourself. Laptops are a little more complicated than that. In fact no part did break in my first laptop. This is the connection to the screen inside the laptop that did break. On a desktop it's not a problem you simply buy a new cable to replace it. On a laptop if you didn't get the shop extended warranty be prepared to pay well over 100$ to repair that damn simple connection to the screen which is ridiculous considering the laptop itself was 600$ only.

My next laptop wont be a mac. And while mac are overpriced i think it's a little silly to compare one with a 600$ laptop. The part inside it may be the same or close. But nothing is magic in this world. The 600$ laptop is 600$ for a reason and this reason is not because the company like the color of your eyes and i personally wont buy one again.

Also the op compares the cpu, gpu, hd and such but the most important part of a computer is the motherboard (often overlooked sadly). From my own experience companies like hp and such often put ***** mb in their pc and laptop to cut the price down since nobody looks at the mb anyway people just care about cpu, gpu and hd. Now i don't know if Apple uses good mb. But when you build your own pc yourself you quickly realise that at the price some desktop are sold by HP and other companies (500-600$) they need to cut somewhere and often it's the case, mb and other parts people don't look at when they buy a computer.

[Jaimy Porter]

If you want to surf the web and do Word processing, I can build you a $50 PC from the bargin parts bin.

You're considering this from a "I want a computer" perspective, not "I use a computer". If I find it easier to get things done in OSX, then over time the computer pays for itself. The "speed" of a computer, in terms of getting work done, doesn't come from the specs, but the operating system and how well the software runs. If the hardware on similarly priced computers was significantly slower on Macs, people wouldn't buy them. My time is valuable, and a faster workflow will always be more valuable than a faster clock speed.

Not to mention every Mac I've owned, I sold on Ebay 3 years later for 60% of what I paid for it. My $600 PC that I built 2 years ago is worth about $100 now. Am I really paying more for Macs?

I do agree with you... kinda :D

But I still find them overpriced considering the hardware for myself.

If other hardware manufacturers just made more stylish and good designs, what a difference that would make :)

[DukeEsquire]

There is more to life than specs.

If the world only cared about specs rather than other "intangible" factors like mobility, then laptops wouldn't exist. We'd all be using desktops hooked up to portable generators.

[Rudy]

Also you guys need to remember that most OEM laptops are a bit cheaper due to a few things, they can get extra money for:

- Sticking ugly stickers on it (Intel Inside! Whoohoo!), though you could argue they can be removed

- Installing crap on the computer (the free 30 trial for an AV that came with your computer....it wasn't just Dell being nice, they got paid for it, same goes of a LOT of the junk you'll find slowing down your computer by default)

Also picking a laptop with a really nice high resolution and high quality screen WILL bump up the price quite a bit.

Also some people were talking about performances, the only differences I can see between OSX and Windows are with the GPU and CPU/Memory

GPU: Windows wins by far, the drivers are a lot better on Windows. OSX might be able to catch up this year with the current focus on gaming on the mac now (Steam) but as of today the same GPU will perform better under Windows.

CPU/Memory: I find that if you take a brand new OEM computer out of the box and run it that way the same hardware will perform better in OSX because it doesn't have all the junk installed by the OEM. If you know what you're doing and install a fresh version of Windows (or spend a lot of time removing all the crap manually) the difference will be negligible between the two. The only problem is that a lot of people require an AV under Windows and AV software are pretty heavy on resources :/

[Minimoose]

If they were overpriced, people wouldn't buy them. That's simple economics. Maybe Windows PCs are underpriced.

You don't know anything about economics do you? Not saying that they are overpriced or not, but things which are overpriced often sell very well.

[treemonster]

Boz, do you actually own either the XPS 15 or a MBP? Or are you just tossing around opinions and hypotheticals? Just curious.

Oh, and btw...Dell motherboards...Foxconn-made. Just sayin'.

apple motherboards, made by foxconn... just sayin

That's not the point. This is cost analysis because I'm using the Macbook Pro as a starting point to inspect other laptop prices. If this idea that Macbook Pros are overpriced holds true, then logically, Windows laptops that have every single feature as the 13" Pro does should exist for less than $1,200, correct? It does not matter what people "care" about in this comparison, this isn't about wants/needs, this is about pure feature comparison because the thread claims that Macs are overpriced. This is all about money, not opinions or preference.

Here, let me dumb it down even more feature wise, to make it seem a bit easier to hunt it down. Again, keep in mind this has nothing to do with preference, this is pure part-for-part comparison.

a Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz processor,

4 GB of RAM,

250 GB Hard Drive,

13.3" Screen,

320M Graphics,

Optical Drive,

1 inch or less thick (for functionality)

4.5 pounds (for easy carrying).

See that? All of that is a very standard feature set, and the thickness requirement and weight features are purely for function, not "looks" or "flashiness". The Dell Vostro v13 is the ONLY thing that gets close in this range, owing to it meeting the weight and thickness requirement, but guess what? Even the V13 comes with a slower low voltage 1.3 GHz processor, no optical drive, a much worse GMA 4500MHD, and get this; even though the default model comes with 4 GB of RAM, you can't buy it with Windows 7 x64. 32bit comes standard. And they normally want $810 for all of that.

This is what I'm getting it, without looking at the "flashy" features of the MBP 13, there still is no hardware equal to it in price.

1" thick is not a standard feature set for laptops. sorry.

and not once has apple spat on any PC hardware, just the windows OS.

(Y) that is true and I can't argue that. Thank god for third party developpers bring other OS features to one another. for example i run hyper dock on my macs because it emulates windows snap...

i see what you did there... :shiftyninja:

you obviously missed the pre intel mac tv advertising focusing on windows pc intel hardware, not to mention the allegedly boring cases during the era of colourful cheap plastic imacs. apple advertising has been based on making up nonsense about the competition for years, without expounding on why it's own products are any good at all. they've since changed that to not say anything at all about any of their products, except feature some random app for the iphone in an ad.

ain.

Also the op compares the cpu, gpu, hd and such but the most important part of a computer is the motherboard (often overlooked sadly). From my own experience companies like hp and such often put ***** mb in their pc and laptop to cut the price down since nobody looks at the mb anyway people just care about cpu, gpu and hd. Now i don't know if Apple uses good mb. But when you build your own pc yourself you quickly realise that at the price some desktop are sold by HP and other companies (500-600$) they need to cut somewhere and often it's the case, mb and other parts people don't look at when they buy a computer.

apple internals are the SAME parts as used by OEM made by the SAME companies, however, apple internals such as the motherboard lack even basic features found standard on the internals of OEM pcs.

@LS you can't pretend to be logical when you mix between personal attacks and presumption that your opinions are facts and are thus logically superior to the opinions of others. sorry logic jus doesn't work that way.

su?per?la?tive

   /səˈpɜrlətɪv, sʊ-/ Show Spelled[suh-pur-luh-tiv, soo-] Show IPA

?adjective

1.

of the highest kind, quality, or order; surpassing all else or others; supreme; extreme: superlative wisdom.

2.

Grammar . of, pertaining to, or noting the highest degree of the comparison of adjectives and adverbs, as smallest, best, and most carefully, the superlative forms of small, good, and carefully. Compare comparative ( def. 4 ) , positive ( def. 20 ) .

3.

being more than is proper or normal; exaggerated in language or style.

i was absolutely using that word correctly. from the first definition link on google.

brb with a post from my netbook showing my CPU usage on actually great than my typical usage of the device.

take a good look.

[threetonesun]

Also you guys need to remember that most OEM laptops are a bit cheaper due to a few things, they can get extra money for:

- Sticking ugly stickers on it (Intel Inside! Whoohoo!), though you could argue they can be removed

- Installing crap on the computer (the free 30 trial for an AV that came with your computer....it wasn't just Dell being nice, they got paid for it, same goes of a LOT of the junk you'll find slowing down your computer by default)

This, plus Apple has to cover the cost of developing its own OS (as opposed to buying Windows), and they often use their own manufacturing lines, while other low end laptops often share the same plastic shell production lines.

Now that they have a greater marketshare, I imagine their purchasing power is better, but in the past they were definitely limited by being a smaller buyer.

[Southern Patriot]

however, apple internals such as the motherboard lack even basic features found standard on the internals of OEM pcs.

Such as? And are you forgetting that Apple motherboards (and computers in general) often have features NOT typically found on most other OEM's PCs?

[threetonesun]

You don't know anything about economics do you? Not saying that they are overpriced or not, but things which are overpriced often sell very well.

You mean things with a high markup? By definition, things that are overpriced wouldn't sell.

[treemonster]

Such as? And are you forgetting that Apple motherboards (and computers in general) often have features NOT typically found on most other OEM's PCs?

what features does apple motherboards have that OEM PCs don't? aside from UEFI which apple computers don't even utilize more than the standard BIOS but should add an extreme increase in pre boot options in DIY pc's when they become more stream this year.

sure i can buy an evga motherboard with all teh bells and whistles, but i've seen OEM PCs with raid controllers for instance.

[brominated]

Does all that make the notebook go faster like go faster stripes on a car?

Do you REALLY need an all aluminium casing or a glass trackpad?

I do. Honestly, I do. Because I quite frankly hate the build quality on Windows laptops, and their trackpad drivers are complete ****.

[Southern Patriot]

You mean things with a high markup? By definition, things that are overpriced wouldn't sell.

Exactly. People around here love to throw around the term "overpriced" without really knowing what it really means. And "overpriced" is certainly relative to the person who is complaining about it. What one person might consider overpriced, another person might consider a fair deal.

[treemonster]

Exactly. People around here love to throw around the term "overpriced" without really knowing what it really means. And "overpriced" is certainly relative to the person who is complaining about it. What one person might consider overpriced, another person might consider a fair deal.

i heard louis vaton bags are a fair price if you can afford them.

[Dashel]

Quality > Quantity for plenty of people.If they were that outrageously priced, Apple wouldn't have $300 billion is profits right now.

Apple has always had large margins. They are like buying Monster cables at a box store.

[Vice]

what features does apple motherboards have that OEM PCs don't? aside from UEFI which apple computers don't even utilize more than the standard BIOS but should add an extreme increase in pre boot options in DIY pc's when they become more stream this year.

sure i can buy an evga motherboard with all teh bells and whistles, but i've seen OEM PCs with raid controllers for instance.

You can do software RAID on a MacBook Pro if you take the optical drive out and put a Hard Disk in its place. And you can do software RAID on a Mac Pro out of the box.

This is just the same thing as with any PC OEM based raid. The chipsets used are the same and many of these include software assisted RAID. I bought a P6T6 motherboard (this is a ?320 Motherboard) and it has Two SAS, 6 SATA and two eSATA connectors which all support only software raid. That was like the most expensive Core i7 board money could buy, even now it's only dwarfed by the high-end Gigabyte & EVGA offerings but even those don't include more than Software raid. Even the SR-2 by EVGA which is a hugeeeeee board and very pricey (Dual Socket XEON) only has software raid.

SuperMicro sell I think 3 or 4 boards that do have Hardware based raid but these are very very expensive and won't fit a normal case.

[xtruder]

>Macbook Pro

>About this Mac

>Core 2 Duo 2.4

>powerful laptop

lol

[treemonster]

You can do software RAID on a MacBook Pro if you take the optical drive out and put a Hard Disk in its place. And you can do software RAID on a Mac Pro out of the box.

This is just the same thing as with any PC OEM based raid. The chipsets used are the same and many of these include software assisted RAID. I bought a P6T6 motherboard (this is a £320 Motherboard) and it has Two SAS, 6 SATA and two eSATA connectors which all support only software raid. That was like the most expensive Core i7 board money could buy, even now it's only dwarfed by the high-end Gigabyte & EVGA offerings but even those don't include more than Software raid. Even the SR-2 by EVGA which is a hugeeeeee board and very pricey (Dual Socket XEON) only has software raid.

SuperMicro sell I think 3 or 4 boards that do have Hardware based raid but these are very very expensive and won't fit a normal case.

can do that on an apple desktop though, unless the thing on neowin recently about a mac user wanting to do and then looking at the price of the apple approved raid controller is untrue or exaggerated.

even if your OEM pc doesn't come with a raid controller on teh main board you can get a PCI raid controller at a much better cost ratio than what apple sells, that is likely the same exact part or at least made in the same factory.

edit: i'm not sure the difference between hardware raid or software raid, but my evga sli x3 board comes with a jmicron raid controller with it's own sata ports.

the SR-2 is a dual cpu board, so ofc it's huge. it's about as high end as you get for the consumer market. and it comes with a life time warranty at no extra cost backed by 24/7 na based native english speaking phone support that has a rep for not reading from a script and the best manufacturer forums in teh industry with frequent posts from actual EVGA staff and no volunteer mods

now comapring apple to evga probably isn't fair. evga offers products and services that blow apple away and among those that use them has a very high customer satisfaction rating, and differs in tehir advertising (which is pretty low key) in that they tell you what's good about their products, it's feature set and and the warranty, not bad mouth the competition. they also have frequent firmware and custom driver support above and beyond the brands they are partners with like nvidia and intel. which the whole package is heads and shoulder above everyone else in the industry, which is why i can wholeheartedly recomend them to anyone wishing to build or upgrade their computer. aesthetically speaking if you have a windowed case their motherboards look very nice and often hav eadded functionality of a temp guage right on the board.

[Rudy]

what features does apple motherboards have that OEM PCs don't? aside from UEFI which apple computers don't even utilize more than the standard BIOS but should add an extreme increase in pre boot options in DIY pc's when they become more stream this year.

sure i can buy an evga motherboard with all teh bells and whistles, but i've seen OEM PCs with raid controllers for instance.

Actually I'm pretty sure they use stuff that wouldn't be possible on a bios. I know bluetooth devices work as soon as the computer is powered up (I'm not 100% but I think a BIOS can't do that)

[Southern Patriot]

what features does apple motherboards have that OEM PCs don't?

OK, for instance a Macbook Pro features the following things that are NOT typical on most other OEM's notebooks:

• Firewire 800
  
• Backlit Keyboard (not a motherboard feature, but certainly a feature of the notebook)
  
• Optical Digital Audio In & Out
  
• Sudden Motion Sensor
  

And there are a few other things that you CAN typically find as options on other notebooks, but are standard on Macbook Pros such as

• Bluetooth
  
• DisplayPort
  
• Gigabit Ethernet
  

And those are just things off the top of my head.

[Vice]

can do that on an apple desktop though, unless the thing on neowin recently about a mac user wanting to do and then looking at the price of the apple approved raid controller is untrue or exaggerated.

even if your OEM pc doesn't come with a raid controller on teh main board you can get a PCI raid controller at a much better cost ratio than what apple sells, that is likely the same exact part or at least made in the same factory.

You don't need to use Apples RAID Card. I personally own a £200 8 port Raid Card that works fine in the Mac Pro. It is made by HighPoint. Pretty much any card by Adaptec, Highpoint and others will work in a Mac Pro. You can even if you wanted use a HP SAS Expander with a HighPoint 4320 and get RAID5/RAID6 (Full Hardware Based with XOR Chip + DDR2 Memory onboard) with SATA/SAS support for up to 32 Hard Drives for £600.

Just because Apple sell a RAID card doesn't mean you need to use it. And again you can still use Software RAID on a Mac Pro just like any recent PC :yes:

[Southern Patriot]

i heard louis vaton bags are a fair price if you can afford them.

Exactly my point. So are Lamborghinis and Bentleys (to use the tired old car analogy).

And I'm still waiting on your list of features that are standard on most OEM's PCs that aren't available on Apple's (let's go ahead and agree about Blu-Ray, since that is an obvious one).

[WelshBluebird]

I go into "About this Mac" and I saw it only had a Core 2 duo 2.4 CPU in the machine. I thought WTF.

Why? The Core 2 Duo is still a very powerful CPU. More powerful than the celerons, atoms and pentiums most people have, and around the same power as the old i3's (of course sandy bridge changes that).

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

Right.

Thread closed

Little too much abuse between both apple fans and everyone else.