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HyBry

Surely they miss out one massive point. How much publishers pay to developers for the right to publish the game.

I would guess there is lot going on behind the scenes as well. Such as get more now, but smaller share from each game sold, or vice versa, less now and more from sales.

There are many reports that majority of games do not make back the development costs and the industry lives of the big games. That means publishers have that portfolio to come out on top. Otherwise why would any developer want to deal with publishers at all.

The only rip-off I see in the massive margin stores are making.

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+Audioboxer

So everyone who buys PS3 games is going to stop and pirate them now?

Not everyone, but why does it need to be everyone?

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Nagisan

Not everyone, but why does it need to be everyone?

Because that's what you said ("People who were buying PS3 games because they had no choice are going to stop doing so"....nobody had the choice of pirating PS3 games until recently, which would mean everyone is going to stop buying them based off your statement).

I am not saying piracy is right, I'm simply saying piracy does not take anything away from the developers 100% of the time. Piracy is NOT a lost sale, it's a lost potential sale (and it's not a lost potential sale 100% of the time either). It also does not take a copy of the game away from the developers, therefore it is not theft/stealing.

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SkyDX

There's a better pic:

24567262.jpg

:p :shiftyninja:

But honestly , I agree on the fact that games might sell a bit less now, but I doubt it will be THAT much to create any big impact but I'm getting off-topic here.

On-topic, it's rather shocking to hear developers get only that much considering they are the ones who put the most work into the game... if anything I would say the developrs should atleast get half of the total made money. Unfortunately the world doesn't work like that... :(

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HyBry

Up until recently you couldn't pirate on the PS3 at all and it's now clear people who were buying PS3 games because they had no choice are about to stop doing so.

And still the PS3 versions of the games rarely make it to the tops last I checked.

Heck, if it wasn't for piracy I probably would not even be a gamer, and would not own 100+ games on Steam.

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inferniac

Wow, I'd have never thought it was such a small amount of money.

Anybody know how big is Steam's % of the game's price?

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Nagisan

There's a better pic:

<snip>

:p :shiftyninja:

But honestly , I agree on the fact that games might sell a bit less now, but I doubt it will be THAT much to create any big impact but I'm getting off-topic here.

On-topic, it's rather shocking to hear developers get only that much considering they are the ones who put the most work into the game... if anything I would say the developrs should atleast get half of the total made money. Unfortunately the world doesn't work like that... :(

Much nicer looking pic than mine, but both get the same point across :p

When you think about it though (as I have) I guess it's really not that bad that developers only get a small share. Publishers pay money up front for a games development, developers have little to no cost to actually develop a game, since publishers pay those costs, therefore anything developers make is net profit, where anything publishers make is only gross profit. Retail stores though seem to make a bit much considering all they do is set the game on the store shelves.

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HyBry

Wow, I'd have never thought it was such a small amount of money.

Anybody know how big is Steam's % of the game's price?

From the reports I have read they take 30%, so that is roughly the same as what the retailers take.

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+Audioboxer

Because that's what you said ("People who were buying PS3 games because they had no choice are going to stop doing so"....nobody had the choice of pirating PS3 games until recently, which would mean everyone is going to stop buying them based off your statement).

I am not saying piracy is right, I'm simply saying piracy does not take anything away from the developers 100% of the time. Piracy is NOT a lost sale, it's a lost potential sale (and it's not a lost potential sale 100% of the time either). It also does not take a copy of the game away from the developers, therefore it is not theft/stealing.

Yeah... okay huh.gif

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Nagisan

Yeah... okay huh.gif

Just using your own words against you, don't get mad at your own mistake....

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Hedon
And no, piracy is not the same as stealing.

It's exactly the same thing.

Therefore no, the developers are not losing anything

Yes they are.

I have question. Would you spend $40 million to make a game, upload your ISO to the web when you are done, and give it away for free to everyone?

Thats the common misconception, if it wasnt available to pirate for free there is no guarantee the person would have paid for the game in the first place, but lets not turn this into a piracy discussion.

Piracy is part of the cost of gaming and where the money goes. Just like shoplifting. Everything you buy in stores is marked up to cover the cost of piracy, shoplifting, stolen goods, products and items, security, and all the equipment and man hours to implement security. As well as piracy. Those costs are part of the reason that the retailer is getting as much of the $40 pie as they do. It's all a part of a valid discussion. It's indeed not a misconception.

They lose money on a sale? Who says the person who pirated would have bought it in the first place?

If they want the game, they should PAY for it. If they want to STEAL the game because they don't have enough money or because they don't feel the game is worth the price, that is too bad for them.

If you honestly can sit here with a serious face and say that everyone who pirated a game would have bought it if piracy did not exist, then YOU need an education period, not just one on economy.

Like I said, learn how an economy works.

Sure, piracy leads to the loss of some sales

Now you are catching on.

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Richard Hammond

Piracy is part of the cost of gaming and where the money goes. Just like shoplifting. Everything you buy in stores is marked up to cover the cost of piracy, shoplifting, stolen goods, products and items, security, and all the equipment and man hours to implement security. As well as piracy. Those costs are part of the reason that the retailer is getting as much of the $40 pie as they do. It's all a part of a valid discussion. It's indeed not a misconception.

It is your misconception, you said lost sales not how it affects the percentages. If something isnt available for free the person who wants it for free would never pay for it in the first place so technically its not a lost sale. Piracy isnt stealing you dont remove the original copy of the game on the store shelf so your retailer analogy is moot because pirates dont just walk into the store and take the game off the shelf, they make a copy of it.

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Nagisan

It's exactly the same thing.

Nope, stealing removes the original, piracy doesn't.
Yes they are.

I have question. Would you spend $40 million to make a game, upload your ISO to the web when you are done, and give it away for free to everyone?

No they are not. If I had the money, I would gladly spend $40 million to make a game and not add DRM, assuming I felt the game was good enough to sell. Releasing the game for free is completely different than a few people pirating the game. One means you have no sales, the other means you lose potential sales.

Like I said, learn how an economy works.

After you learn how piracy works (it is NOT the same as stealing, until you learn that, everything you say regarding piracy is illogical and pointless).

Now you are catching on.

If only you would catch on and get an idea about what piracy is.

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+Audioboxer

It is your misconception, you said lost sales not how it affects the percentages. If something isnt available for free the person who wants it for free would never pay for it in the first place so technically its not a lost sale.

It's nice to want things, but if people can't get for free, but can get for a cost, you don't know for sure.

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WelshBluebird

It's exactly the same thing.

Not by its definition, and not in the eyes of the law (theft and copyright infringment are very different offences).

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Hedon

It is your misconception, you said lost sales not how it affects the percentages. If something isnt available for free the person who wants it for free would never pay for it in the first place so technically its not a lost sale.

Disagree. Nobody in the world wants to pay for the games. So does that mean I can go an pirate it too? And if so, if everyone started pirating the game, they wouldn't have any sales. If SOME pirated the game, they would have lost SOME sales.

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treemonster

i think the sales where you set your own price for music and games speak for themselves here. they tend to do very well with very little spent on advertising.

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Hedon
Nope, stealing removes the original, piracy doesn't.

It's theft.

No they are not. If I had the money, I would gladly spend $40 million to make a game and not add DRM, assuming I felt the game was good enough to sell. Releasing the game for free is completely different than a few people pirating the game. One means you have no sales, the other means you lose potential sales.

You didn't answer my question. Would you release a $40 million game on the web and let everyone pirate it?

After you learn how piracy works (it is NOT the same as stealing, until you learn that, everything you say regarding piracy is illogical and pointless).

Yup, already did all that and then some in school, thanks ;) Then again, what do I know...only have been in law enforcement for near 20 years ;)

If only you would catch on and get an idea about what piracy is.

Sad.

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HyBry

It's exactly the same thing.

Yes they are.

I have question. Would you spend $40 million to make a game, upload your ISO to the web when you are done, and give it away for free to everyone?

Piracy is part of the cost of gaming and where the money goes. Just like shoplifting. Everything you buy in stores is marked up to cover the cost of piracy, shoplifting, stolen goods, products and items, security, and all the equipment and man hours to implement security. As well as piracy. Those costs are part of the reason that the retailer is getting as much of the $40 pie as they do. It's all a part of a valid discussion. It's indeed not a misconception.

If they want the game, they should PAY for it. If they want to STEAL the game because they don't have enough money or because they don't feel the game is worth the price, that is too bad for them.

Like I said, learn how an economy works.

Now you are catching on.

You should learn how life works.

Is piracy same as stealing? No!

Does it affect sales? Yes. BUT do not confuse Stealing a CD in store with Piracy! Two different things.

Would I spend 40 mil and give it out for free? maybe. But then again I would not drive my custumers to pirate the game to get more value than when they buy it.

Sure, few people who pirated the game would have bought it, but majority would not have. On other hand, more people play your game, more recognised the name becomes which in turn yields more sales. So not all is grim and bad in piracy.

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Nagisan

Disagree. Nobody in the world wants to pay for the games. So does that mean I can go an pirate it too? And if so, if everyone started pirating the game, they wouldn't have any sales. If SOME pirated the game, they would have lost SOME sales.

Which is why the Humble Bundle #2 made nearly 2 million dollars in the 2 weeks (or however long it was) that they did the pay what you want offer. If what you said is true, they would have made only $2,328.54 (the minimum if all buyers bought it for 1 cent).

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Azusa

I miss the good old days when games were made because the developers loved making games. Now it's all about the money.

[COUGH]Call of Duty[/COUCH]

Yeah also remember when coders would spend more time making games such as Team fortress and counter strike?

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treemonster

Disagree. Nobody in the world wants to pay for the games. So does that mean I can go an pirate it too? And if so, if everyone started pirating the game, they wouldn't have any sales. If SOME pirated the game, they would have lost SOME sales.

for many of us who play pc games, paying for the game is a choice. it's something we want to do. it's not necessarily something we have to do. we feel games are worth the price, so we pay for them. and many of us simply do not play games we do not feel are worth the price, not because we can't pirate them, but because if they're not worth our time to play, then they're not worth buying.

i could go online right now and pirate every single cod game on pc, but i'm not going to because they're not even worth my time. but if they were a game i wanted to play, i would pay for them.

just because you can pirate a game doesn't mean you will. and even in countries like mine where what's called piracy is effectively legal. kinda strange how that works since canada has a higher adoption rate of digital delivery services than the US, despite looming bandwidth caps and overage fees. we still prefer to pay for our games.

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Azusa

You should learn how life works.

And you should learn what umbrella terms are.

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Reacon

This is why Steam is such a success.

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Nagisan

It's theft.

No, it's piracy.
You didn't answer my question. Would you release a $40 million game on the web and let everyone pirate it?
I wouldn't care if people pirated it because I know I couldn't stop it. So yes, that does answer your question. Not everyone knows how to pirate a game, but I wouldn't go out of my way to stop those who do know how. Releasing a game for free is not the same as piracy, so get that out of your mind. With a free game, potential sales = 0, with piracy, potential sales = anyone and everyone.
Yup, already did all that and then some in school, thanks ;) Then again, what do I know...only have been in law enforcement for near 20 years ;)

You must be crappy at your job, theft and copyright infringement (piracy) are completely different charges, but, you should know that if you have been in law enforcement for nearly 20 years. If they were the same, they wouldn't have two different charges.

Sad.

I would rather be "sad" than be as oblivious and unwilling to learn as you.

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