Apple to Eliminate Retail Box Software Inventory

[.Neo]

They can’t restrict things so much on a desktop platform.

Of course they can, it's their own operating system. Apple can do anything they want to Mac OS X.

If it does happen, well we’re losing Flash, Porn apps, Spyware, Malware, Apps filled with viruses, and finally the only bad thing : apps equivalent to what Apple has built in the system. For all the developers the Mac App Store will interest, you will still end up gaining way more apps than you’ll lose them.

That's a very rosy way to describe things. Mac OS X could also loose Microsoft Office, Adobe Creative Suite, Steam (no in-app purchases anyone?) etc.

[PyX]

Of course they can, it's their own operating system. Apple can do anything they want to Mac OS X.

Sure, technically speaking, they can.

But I think they?re aware of what reputation that?ll give them. You can?t restrict a desktop operating system.

IMO the Mac App Store is simply a way to centralize all applications so that users stop searching. If I were at Apple, I would have done the same. People expect the worst scenarios, that?s all.

[.Neo]

Apple is known to drastically change things and we all know the company just loves to have control over just about any aspect of the platform.

[PyX]

That's a very rosy way to describe things. Mac OS X could also loose Microsoft Office, Adobe Creative Suite, Steam (no in-app purchases anyone?) etc.

Apple has never disallowed productivity or imaging applications in the App Store. A company would never invest 1-2 years of work and engineering along with $250 000, not knowing if Apple would accept it or not. Apple knows this. These suites, no matter how good/bad they can be, would necessarily be accepted.

Not to mention that IF it ever happened, it would probably be possible to jailbreak Macs.

[.Neo]

Apple has never disallowed productivity or imaging applications in the App Store. A company would never invest 1-2 years of work and engineering along with $250 000, not knowing if Apple would accept it or not. Apple knows this. These suites, no matter how good/bad they can be, would necessarily be accepted.

I don't think a company like Adobe wants to distribute their suite through Apple's App Store in the first place. Doesn't matter if they get accepted or not.

Not to mention that IF it ever happened, it would probably be possible to jailbreak Macs.

Which for many, like companies, wouldn't be an option. And you really think Adobe will continue their Mac support if jailbreaking is the only way to install their software? Nah.

[PyX]

I don't think a company like Adobe wants to distribute their suite through Apple's App Store in the first place. Doesn't matter if they get accepted or not.

One thing is sure, Apple will do everything they possibly can to keep Adobe and Office on its platform. It?s not like they have anything to compete with that (no, iWork does not compete with Office).

If Adobe and Microsoft don?t want their suites on the App Store or don?t want Apple to get 30% of their revenues, Apple will have no choice but bow down to their requests.

Photoshop and Word are one of the things that has thrown OS X ahead of the competition back then, and Apple has to respect that.

[.Neo]

Totally unrelated: It really ****es me off that the App Store doesn't have an uninstall feature. Nor any other Installer by Apple. I just spend ages trying to get rid of all Final Cut Pro files on a friend's MacBook Pro.

[Subject Delta]

Why is it bad? Because huge companies like Adobe wont get their full revenue? Because I don?t think Apple would disallow applications on a Desktop computer - or well I hope they won?t, unless it does not respect the interface guidelines. Then again, judging by what?s on both App Stores, they seem pretty flexible regarding this...

I wonder how much companies lose with the packaging + shipping fees + their bandwidth for updates + the profit stores do. Stores all do at least 20% on everything, that?s a given (stocking + handling fees + profit). I?m pretty sure it sums up to 25-35%. 30% isn?t a loss to the developers, but it is a win in Apple?s pockets.

I am pretty sure the cost of distributing computer software in boxed format (especially considering how much Adobe software costs) is minimal compared to the 30% they would have to pay Apple for having it on the app store.

[.Neo]

I am pretty sure the cost of distributing computer software in boxed format (especially considering how much Adobe software costs) is minimal compared to the 30% they would have to pay Apple for having it on the app store.

Yeap, that's what I think too. I seriously doubt both Microsoft and Adobe are willing to give up such a big share of their sales.

[PyX]

I am pretty sure the cost of distributing computer software in boxed format (especially considering how much Adobe software costs) is minimal compared to the 30% they would have to pay Apple for having it on the app store.

That will take more than that to convince me. As I mentioned, generally, any physical store makes at least 20% off of any possible merchandise you can think of.

Those are called stocking fees. Why would software sales be spared by this 20%?

The uninstall function will probably be there in Lion, like what we have in iOS. Meanwhile, dragging an application to the trash deletes pretty much everything from it, except those preference files. But yeah, a clear, proper uninstall feature lacks at the moment.

Edit : Add that to the fact that you can never lose a sale because it’s a digital download. If it’s a physical product and you failed to deliver it for x reason, you can go to the point where you lose the sale. Plus you have no control over the statistics. It’s impossible to determine precisely how many sales you had and in what countries and provinces or states. What you sell to the stores is not exactly what you sell to the customers. It costs a lot to companies to determine where they ship their products and how many. It will sometimes require engineers (hey, that’s my domain) and you know how much engineers cost. Come on, the list of advantages is really big regarding the App Store.

[Southern Patriot]

I am pretty sure the cost of distributing computer software in boxed format (especially considering how much Adobe software costs) is minimal compared to the 30% they would have to pay Apple for having it on the app store.

Did you miss the part where he mentioned that the retail stores also take about 20% in addition to whatever the packaging and distribution costs are?

[Daybreak]

Did you miss the part where he mentioned that the retail stores also take about 20% in addition to whatever the packaging and distribution costs are?

Couple of things to consider - these are major software titles, stuff that any self-respecting Software section should be carrying. In addition, Adobe and Microsoft also have Windows versions that need to be stocked as well. I seriously doubt that it's a flat 20% fee - more likely, it'll be capped at some amount that's probably below 20% of the actual retail price.

[.Neo]

Like Protagonist said, Apple think that all their customers are in a 15 to 20MB connection speed that can download anything... Wake up Apple of your fantasy dream :laugh:

Well I have an unlimited 35 MB connection. That doesn't mean however I feel like downloading everything over and over again after doing an Erase & Install.

[Southern Patriot]

Couple of things to consider - these are major software titles, stuff that any self-respecting Software section should be carrying. In addition, Adobe and Microsoft also have Windows versions that need to be stocked as well. I seriously doubt that it's a flat 20% fee - more likely, it'll be capped at some amount that's probably below 20% of the actual retail price.

Well, we were basically saying that on average a retail store charges about 20% markup on software over their costs. I've worked in several retail stores and seen the prices the store is actually charged vs. what they price things at, and that 20% is a fairly good average.

[PyX]

Well, we were basically saying that on average a retail store charges about 20% markup on software over their costs. I've worked in several retail stores and seen the prices the store is actually charged vs. what they price things at, and that 20% is a fairly good average.

Exactly.

Same thing for me, I’ve worked in a few retail stores and they all start with a 20% profit in their head. People don’t know this, but this is why you’re getting lower prices if you buy directly from a factory or from a supplier. It’s not because stores steal you, it’s really because it does cost them a lot to keep it in inventory.

Even worse, I’ve worked in pharmacies (I think you guys call them drug stores - or is it the French?) and they’re all the same. OTC products have a 40% margin profit tagged on them. Let’s define margin profit here. It doesn’t mean that you take the product cost and you multiply it by 1.4. It means you take the product cost and you divide it by 0.6. So if you’re buying a product that is worth $10, you will pay $16.69 + taxes. But yeah, we all know these pharmaceutical companies are thieves. It’s not related to Apple’s App Store. But at least Apple takes an honest 30% on the product. They don’t divide the price the developer wanted by 0.70 and keep the rest.

I’ve also been said in a university class by a "Stock Management" teacher that if we have to stock a product before selling it or giving it to the customer, as an engineer, I should add 20% to the value of the product. That didn’t really make sense for me, because we have no idea how much space a product occupies, how much each square feet of the warehouse is worth, on how many years we have to calculate the depreciation of the warehouse, and for how long we’re going to stock it. But these numbers are actually very hard to get, so companies really work on this 20% basis.

[Chlorpromazine]

Apple may not sell box sets but someone will. I can't see box sets going away anytime soon.

Well, I live in a country where a proper hi-speed connection is yet to come; but nevertheless I haven't bought any boxed software in five years.

[DeadEndAccount]

Well, I live in a country where a proper hi-speed connection is yet to come; but nevertheless I haven't bought any boxed software in five years.

And not all the software is massive in size either - sure there are some massive beauties out there but even on a low end 1mbps just leave the download over night then. Why is there this aversion to downloading something over night?

[Mr. Gibs]

Even worse, I’ve worked in pharmacies (I think you guys call them drug stores - or is it the French?) and they’re all the same. OTC products have a 40% margin profit tagged on them.

If you think thats bad, go to / work in a fireworks store here in America lol. The one near where I live has a 400-800% markup.

[REM2000]

And not all the software is massive in size either - sure there are some massive beauties out there but even on a low end 1mbps just leave the download over night then. Why is there this aversion to downloading something over night?

personally for me i dont like devices left on due to fire risk and power / electricity, here in the uk electricity prices are just stupidly high.

I prefer physical copies as its easy to purchase, store and then use when needed.

This is personally how i like big purchases, however i do also like steam. It works well and i down games bit by bit when im in front of the computer, but i like the choice. I wouldnt want my software to be download only at the moment.

It was also steam purchases that got me kicked off my isp for breaking fair use, so that's an additional cost i incur, which i like to chose to bear.

[Malisk]

These rumors seem to be oversimplifying things.

Nothing Apple has said tells this (no, a walk-through of the Mac App Store sure don't), and Steve Jobs has also said that the Mac App Store isn't supposed to replace other distribution models. Such as those that can't be allowed on the Mac App Store since they require a more thorough install process.

And if you think Steve was BS'ing at that time - think of what *less* supported applications would to do Apple's appeal? If people wouldn't have a way to get e.g. Adobe Photoshop? That's right. So no, this won't happen anytime soon.

[DeadEndAccount]

personally for me i dont like devices left on due to fire risk and power / electricity, here in the uk electricity prices are just stupidly high.

Meh, I guess I'm lucky given that I'm a real cheapskate with my iMac using hardly any power when compared to the other devices I switch off when I'm not using them - just setup the power saving so that the screen turns off after 1 minute meaning the only powered is the computer itself.

I prefer physical copies as its easy to purchase, store and then use when needed.

This is personally how i like big purchases, however i do also like steam. It works well and i down games bit by bit when im in front of the computer, but i like the choice. I wouldnt want my software to be download only at the moment.

It was also steam purchases that got me kicked off my isp for breaking fair use, so that's an additional cost i incur, which i like to chose to bear.

I used to be in the same boat but the AppStore has pretty much moved me from being a unrepentant pirate into someone who is more than happy to pay for software; from having to deal with horrible spyware ridden anti-piracy measures to click and buy through the AppStore. So far I have bought OmniGraffle Pro, OmniOutliner Pro, MarsEdit and Transmit - applications I wouldn't have otherwise bought if it required me trying to find a reseller where I live or having to deal with the horrible non-AppStore based web purchasing so many software vendors operate using. So if you're a software company wanting to sell, the AppStore is the place to be.

As for your ISP - I feel for you mate but I'm down here having to pay per gigabyte on a 15mbps/2mbps connection. I'd find out why they did it because it doesn't seem right given that your purchases were legitimate - unless you were downloading something like 200GB per month then I could see their point.