Zune prices excessively high...

[LiquidSolstice]

How much do you intend to charge for that comment?

All the money in the world probably wouldn't be enough to help you make more of an intelligent response than that, I'd wager, so I'll let it be free.

I've never written a book, but I've written many posts on here and other websites. Should I claim that you owe me for reading what I wrote?

Did you have to pay anything or put in hours of effort into make those posts? Did you distribute them using publishing materials and licesnes that you had to pay for? No, you posted them on a public domain forum board.

More dumb logic. Why pay anything from anyone, if that's your logic? Are you going to try relating breathing to making music and then ask the sarcastic question "should I be charging you for breathing the same air I do?"

[s1k3sT]

Did you have to pay anything or put in hours of effort into make those posts? Did you distribute them using publishing materials and licesnes that you had to pay for?

Ah, so I'm only entitled to be paid if I paid someone else first? I would say I've easily "put in hours of effort" over the years. When are you going to pay me the money you owe me (1 million dollars)?

More dumb logic. Why pay anything from anyone, if that's your logic? Are you going to try relating breathing to making music and then ask the sarcastic question "should I be charging you for breathing the same air I do?"

That's the "dumb logic" imo...

I didn't create the air you're breathing, I did however create the content you're reading right now. You gonna pay up, or what?

[LiquidSolstice]

Ah, so I'm only entitled to be paid if I paid someone else first? I would say I've easily "put in hours" over the years. When are you going to pay me the money you owe me (1 million dollars)?

Over the years and over the course of a month or two is a rather large difference. You spit out posts every day, music artist produce songs every few months (sometimes years). This comparison will get you nowhere, you should probably stop trying.

That's the "dumb logic" imo...

I didn't create the air you're breathing, I did however create the content you're reading right now. You gonna pay up, or what?

You posted the content on a forum board realizing that when you joined, content you make available here will be freely visible. You don't write a book, make a movie, bake a cake, or fix someone's computer with the assumption that it will be freely available, do you?

Why are you paying for your food then? Or your internet? Come on man, fight the system, if it's such a "you owe me" society.

See how far that gets your pathetic thinking.

[s1k3sT]

Over the years and over the course of a month or two is a rather large difference. You spit out posts every day, music artist produce songs every few months (sometimes years). This comparison will get you nowhere, you should probably stop trying.

So I'm only entitled to get paid if I create content quickly? If Duke Nukem Forever ever comes out you should "steal" it and use that as your defense...

Or are you saying the content has to be considered "quality" for it to worth paying for? Guess I should "steal" something I don't consider quality then defend myself by saying "it's not quality, so I don't have to pay!"...

You don't write a book, make a movie, bake a cake, or fix someone's computer with the assumption that it will be freely available, do you?

Why are you paying for your food then? Or your internet? Come on man, fight the system, if it's such a "you owe me" society.

See how far that gets your pathetic thinking.

Maybe you should read the "about me" tab on the profile I'm using...

[LiquidSolstice]

So I'm only entitled to get paid if I create content quickly? If Duke Nukem Forever ever comes out you should "steal" it and use that as your defense...

Or are you saying the content has to be considered "quality" for it to worth paying for? Guess I should "steal" something I don't consider quality then defend myself by saying "it's not quality, so I don't have to pay!"...

Jesus, are you blind? Do you not understand the difference between a public domain internet forum board and a commercial industry? Did you not take economics in high school?

Your ego seems to be so incredibly puffed up that you're losing track of what you're trying to say here. You seem to be so excited to make a point that you've lost sight of the original argument you tried to make here. Rather than me shooting down your increasingly stupid hypothetical questions, why don't you elaborate on this point for me to save me an a$$load of time;

Putting a price on something you make is an accusation that other people owe you something, at least that's how I see it...

How in any way is this logical? Do explain to me. I would love to know.

So I read your about me; essentially because you fixed some computers for free and people pitied your situation enough to donate enough to get a room you feel that free is the right way to go. Well done. You let people freeload off you and step on your face, the rest of the world should do the same.

[jakem1]

...

All you've got to offer is abuse and support for a failed industry :rolleyes:

It's also pretty sad that you can only understand music in terms of its commercial value rather than its cultural value. That's the same problem that the music industry has ;)

[Eddo89]

If you want your posts to be charged to view, then why don't you do all the publishing and distribution? Besides, this place isn't yours, this place is Neowin and probably I say that is belongs to the forum as much as it belongs to you.

I just find some posts to be disrespectful to the artists. If I like a song, I might pirate a couple more, but chances are I will pay to download the rest. Why? Because I think whoever wrote and sang it, deserve credit and I want whoever wrote it, to continue creating this style of music. I don't like all the "bad song" argument. It doesn't cost you anything to listen on radio or on TV. Oh wait, is on your MP3 player and computer. Wait, so why do you want to own things that you don't like? I really don't get the logic here. Is this some kind of character building exercise where you try not to say a song is crap or something, anger management class maybe. It just baffles me. Care to explain the logic, because in my opinion, this is simply an excuse to make yourself sleep easier while you take the work of others.

I sort of get it if you want to download to listen. But how many of you can swear that you pirated and never deleted nor bought it. Even I, a guy who you could say is anti-piracy, cannot really say that.

And cultural value? Care to elaborate? Oh wait, this is not the point. Because it is not a point, you have no coherent argument hence you say something that is shady without a precise point.

[LiquidSolstice]

All you've got to offer is abuse and support for a failed industry :rolleyes:

It's also pretty sad that you can only understand music in terms of its commercial value rather than its cultural value. That's the same problem that the music industry has ;)

Ahhhh. Cultural value. Silly me. Here I was thinking that there were costs involved in making music.

If you want your posts to be charged to view, then why don't you do all the publishing and distribution? Besides, this place isn't yours, this place is Neowin and probably I say that is belongs to the forum as much as it belongs to you.

I just find some posts to be disrespectful to the artists. If I like a song, I might pirate a couple more, but chances are I will pay to download the rest. Why? Because I think whoever wrote and sang it, deserve credit and I want whoever wrote it, to continue creating this style of music. I don't like all the "bad song" argument. It doesn't cost you anything to listen on radio or on TV. Oh wait, is on your MP3 player and computer. Wait, so why do you want to own things that you don't like? I really don't get the logic here. Is this some kind of character building exercise where you try not to say a song is crap or something, anger management class maybe. It just baffles me. Care to explain the logic, because in my opinion, this is simply an excuse to make yourself sleep easier while you take the work of others.

I sort of get it if you want to download to listen. But how many of you can swear that you pirated and never deleted nor bought it. Even I, a guy who you could say is anti-piracy, cannot really say that.

Winful post is wintastic.

Repped for truth.

[s1k3sT]

Jesus, are you blind? Do you not understand the difference between a public domain internet forum board and a commercial industry? Did you not take economics in high school?

I was just trying to understand your perspective, and I'm now convinced it's "you're entitled to get paid only if you use the commercial industry, put out content quickly, and make quality content"...

How in any way is this logical? Do explain to me. I would love to know.

Define "logical"...

You think creating specific content entitles one to get paid, but you also think creating other content doesn't offer the same entitlement; I'm just trying to figure out where you draw the line.

I need to understand where you draw the line, because you think I'm not entitled to be paid for what I create, but at the same time you think other people are entitled to be paid for what they create. What are the requirements for you to consider me entitled to get paid?

[LiquidSolstice]

You obviously think creating specific content entitles one to get paid, while creating other content doesn't offer the same entitlement, I'm just trying to figure out where you draw the line. I need to understand where you draw the line, because you obviously don't think I'm entitled to be paid for my creations but at the same time you think other people are entitled to be paid for theirs. What are your requirements for me to be entitled to be paid?

Alright, you poor deluded fool, you want to be paid for your content? Fine be me.

Step 1: Get your piggybacking arse off Neowin.

Step 2: Get your own domain and webhosting.

Step 3: Set up a payment plan to read/access the content on your website.

Step 4: Create your content.

Step 5: Get paid.

Was that so hard? Talk about being part of the entitlement generation, yeesh. Regardless of all your wordplay about commercial quickness vs independent work, the fact of the matter is that you just tried to relate tapping a bunch of keys out in a text field on a free public domain website and pressing the "reply" key to all the work that goes into creating music.

[jakem1]

Alright, you poor deluded fool, you want to be paid for your content? Fine be me.

Step 1: Get your piggybacking arse off Neowin.

Step 2: Get your own domain and webhosting.

Step 3: Set up a payment plan to read/access the content on your website.

Step 4: Create your content.

Step 5: Get paid.

Was that so hard? Talk about being part of the entitlement generation, yeesh. Regardless of all your wordplay about commercial quickness vs independent work, the fact of the matter is that you just tried to relate tapping a bunch of keys out in a text field on a free public domain website and pressing the "reply" key to all the work that goes into creating music.

You're pathetic. If you want to have a discussion try doing it without abusing people. Until then there's no point wasting time on someone like you, especially when you're obviously unable to get the point that others are making.

[s1k3sT]

the fact of the matter is that you just tried to relate tapping a bunch of keys out in a text field on a free public domain website and pressing the "reply" key to all the work that goes into creating music.

Did I?

The way I see it, I'm just trying to figure out why people think I'm not entitled to be paid for what I create, when the same people think other people are entitled to be paid for what they create.

[LiquidSolstice]

You're pathetic. If you want to have a discussion try doing it without abusing people. Until then there's no point wasting time on someone like you, especially when you're obviously unable to get the point that others are making.

Seeing as you've yet to contribute anything other than your own insults and a vague argument that music should be free, I wouldn't be talking.

Did I?

The way I see it, I'm just trying to figure out why people think I'm not entitled to be paid for what I create, when the same people think other people are entitled to be paid for what they create.

I am now convinced you are blind. Did you not see what I said?

If you want to get paid for your content, don't post it where its freely accessible, control where its distribution is. Why should you get paid for anything you post on Neowin? Neowin pays for the servers, Neowin pays for the domain, Neowin built modified its content management system, and ultimately, Neowin distributed that content to other people for you. You should be paying Neowin for that.

If you want to be paid for your work, you do it through a service that is designed to help you make money through what you create, you wouldn't just piggyback off another artist and expect monetary returns, would you? You're not entitled to be paid for what you created here because you did nothing to bring it to other people. If you'd like to ignore the respectful payment aspect in which one is paid for the hard work and effort they put into creating such content, you can at least do your best to fathom the idea that distribution is not free. It costs someone money somewhere down the line, and in the case of forum posts on Neowin, it's costing Neowin to do that.

[s1k3sT]

If you want to get paid for your content, don't post it where its freely accessible, control where its distribution is. Why should you get paid for anything you post on Neowin? Neowin pays for the servers, Neowin pays for the domain, Neowin built modified its content management system, and ultimately, Neowin distributed that content to other people for you. You should be paying Neowin for that.

If you want to be paid for your work, you do it through a service that is designed to help you make money through what you create, you wouldn't just piggyback off another artist and expect monetary returns, would you? You're not entitled to be paid for what you created here because you did nothing to bring it to other people. If you'd like to ignore the respectful payment aspect in which one is paid for the hard work and effort they put into creating such content, you can at least do your best to fathom the idea that distribution is not free. It costs someone money somewhere down the line, and in the case of forum posts on Neowin, it's costing Neowin to do that.

Who said I wouldn't give neowin a cut?

If I write something, then broadcast it over a loudspeaker, I should be entitled to get paid by anyone that hears it?

[LiquidSolstice]

If I write something, then broadcast it over a loudspeaker, I should be entitled to get paid by anyone that hears it?

Can you control the loudspeaker's distribution of sound? If you can, by all means, distribute it people who pay for it. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure "loudspeaker" can easily be considered freely accessible. Unless you're asking me if you should get paid after the fact for distributing your content to unsuspecting people? If that's the case, ignoring the fact you forced it on them using a loudspeaker, do you give consulting advice to random people on the street and then go demanding money from anyone who was within earshot of your consulting advice?

No, you charge people who come to you with a demand for the content you create.

Seriously, this is getting pathetic. You don't seem to get the meaning of "content distribution" (among many other things). Give it up and continue living in your idealistic donation-based life. The rest of the world is in the world of consumer reality.

Who said I wouldn't give neowin a cut?

Oh you're so clever. Go on then. Try and set up a payment-based thread here on Neowin, and see how far that takes you. I'm sure Neobond would love that.

You're hilarious.

[s1k3sT]

Give it up and continue living in your idealistic donation-based life. The rest of the world is in the world of consumer reality.

I would ask you to prove the underlined claim, but I don't think it's even possible to prove; so the question becomes "why make claims that are unprovable"? Reminds me of the theist/atheist controversy...

[LiquidSolstice]

I would ask you to prove the underlined claim, but I don't think it's even possible to prove; why make claims that are unprovable? Reminds me of the theist/atheist controversy...

Figures, you'd ignore everything I take the time to reply to you about, and instead attack me about a different thread. :( How sad. For all your love for what's free, I'm starting to think my free content isn't being appreciated here. OH THE CONTROVERSY

[Eddo89]

Is hard to see where the line meet?

You create a forum post, knowingly that no one will pay you to view it. If you go out there and say this is public domain, then it probably is not yours. And I say it is a bit far fetched to say anything you typed in 5 minutes is anything that anyone will pay to write. You chose it to be something public and free. That is that, I really can't make it any clearer.

If you say something over the loudspeaker, no. They can record it sure. If there wasn't any rule preventing someone recording it that was placed by you or something who operates for you on your behalf.

@Jakem. Abuse? You have no debate, you are now doing what a typical person do when they completely lost an argument. They accuse the other person of something without giving a hint of a further point. Essentially, you are being a cry-baby. And I can now think of a cultural aspect. That it is within my culture to not steal but to respect the properties of the owners. I mean really, do you just go the supermarket and "take" a turkey for thanksgiving just because is culture. It will be awfully nice of them to offer it for free, but that decision is theirs, not yours. You also don't get in free to a baseball game, because it is culture. And lets be honest, a baseball game is more part of the American culture than a Bieber or a Gaga song.

I actually find it hard to argue, as it seems I have to assume that people are gutter types that have no respect for other people to actually make a point.

[LiquidSolstice]

When you're ready to explain to me how a loudspeaker is controlled distribution (you know, like backing up your own arguments rather than switching them up or changing the topic every post), I'll be right here, buddy.

EDIT: This post was directed at s1k3sT, not Eddo89, who posted his reply while I was still typing mine.

[s1k3sT]

When you're ready to explain to me how a loudspeaker is controlled distribution (you know, like backing up your own arguments rather than switching them up or changing the topic every post), I'll be right here, buddy.

Arguments? Why would I want to argue?

I was just trying to get an understanding of where you draw the line, now that I understand what you mean by controlled distribution there's nothing to discuss. You think demanding payment (for certain things) is the right thing to do, I think giving unconditionally is the right thing to do; I don't care if either of us is right or wrong, so there's no controversy here...

[Mr.XXIV]

Reasons why most people are pirates..

[LiquidSolstice]

Arguments? Why would I want to argue?

I was just trying to get an understanding of where you draw the line, now that I understand what you mean by controlled distribution there's nothing to discuss. You think charging for things is the right thing to do, I think giving unconditionally is the right thing to do; I don't care if either of us is right or wrong, so there's no controversy here...

If you didn't care who was right or wrong, you wouldn't keep debating about it, would you? :rolleyes: Typical forum-debate exit; you've got nothing left so you take the pacifist stance after trying to defend your point. Just leave with dignity if you're done with this thread.

Why are you so completely and thoroughly obsessed with the word "controversy"? This seems to be the second thread where the only reason the "controversy" comes up is because you use the word as though the devil himself spoke it.

I unconditionally ask you to give me all your credit card details.

Leave them in a PM, thanks.

[s1k3sT]

If you didn't care who was right or wrong, you wouldn't keep debating about it, would you? :rolleyes: Typical forum-debate exit; you've got nothing left so you take the pacifist stance after trying to defend your point. Just leave with dignity if you're done with this thread.

1. When did I "debate" anything?

2. What is the point you think I was trying to defend, and when did I say it was "[my] point"?

Why are you so completely and thoroughly obsessed with the word "controversy"? This seems to be the second thread where the only reason the "controversy" comes up is because you use the word as though the devil himself spoke it.

Controversy causes division and segregation.

I unconditionally ask you to give me all your credit card details.

Leave them in a PM, thanks.

If I had one I wouldn't have a problem sharing, but it's kind of hard to get a credit card when you're asking if you're required to identify as the name you use...

[LiquidSolstice]

1. When did I "debate" anything?

The past 10 or so posts? Are you forgetting stuff that quickly now? Perhaps your utopian world is messing with your head?

2. What is the point you think I was trying to defend, and when did I say it was "my point"?

....seriously? This is just...sad.

Controversy causes division and segregation.

I give up. You're useless. I'm going to drop it in this thread because it's been hijacked long enough. It's about Zune pricing, not your beliefs point arguments CONTROVERSY innocent clarification on the topic.

If I had one I wouldn't have a problem sharing, but it's kind of hard to get a credit card when you're asking if you're required to identify as the name you use...

Oh, I see. Then your social security number please. Actually, can I borrow your wallet? And your car? I probably won't be able to give them back though, but it's all good, because i know you will. Please leave the address to where I can pick up the car in my PMs.

Much gratitude.

P.S. Please leave your computer at the address as well.

EDIT: Final reply, you posted something else before I finished posting. Leaving this thread now, enjoy playing the good guy and not causing any *GASP OMFG CONTROVERSY*

[xankazo]

Stupid Microsoft points.