Apple fanboy?

[LiveAndFight]

You're right about the parts ... but I don't have a Macbook so it's not really an issue for me :)

I have a 27 inch iMac. Show me a 27 inch PC that has the silence of my iMac ... space is a massive concern. Also, MacOS is an OS you can't officially have on a PC. Sure you can hack one together, but that's hassle. The point is, I think you're simplifying the whole situation. It's not just a case of a Mac Vs a PC in terms of price and hardware. The overall package is what people pay for. My iMac is incredibly slick in every way, not just how it looks. That is why it's worth the money. Pretty sure someone put together a spec here on Neowin showing the difference in price with the exact same component types (albeit as a PC it had to have a box separate from the screen), and the price difference really wasn't that different.

A 13-inch macbook pro is $1199, a 13 inch screen? Enough said :).

13-inch. Starts at $1199.

15-inch. Starts at $1799.

17-inch. Starts at $2499.

Source:

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

[Frylock86]

Just adding my 2 cents:

There seems to be a lot of Apple "haters" on Neowin lately, saying things like:

- Apple consumers will buy anything with an Apple logo on it

Because there are a few consumers like that. There was an article on CNN a few years ago, just before the announcement of the iPad1, with a guy who said he buys anything Apple, because Apple knows what his computing needs are before he does. There are also those who do in fact buy every single Apple item on sale, even if it's just an incremental upgrade, and will quickly denounce those that do not.

Not to mention the freaks who camp outside Apple stores days before a launch.

[OOOOOOOO]

A 13-inch macbook pro is $1199, a 13 inch screen? Enough said :).

13-inch. Starts at $1199.

15-inch. Starts at $1799.

17-inch. Starts at $2499.

Source:

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

Why are you quoting the 13 inch MBP? I asked about 27 inch PC's :) All in ones. Pretty sure they don't exist, because no one else can afford to make a system that is designed internally that neatly. I have paid for that to some degree, and I'm freaking glad I did. I can't possibly go back to a noisy PC box ... when I work at home, I work in a silent room and it's lovely. The moment my girlfriend switches on her PC, I feel like I have tinnitus or something because of the fans. And that's in a ?80 Thermaltake case I bought for that PC ... so not a cheap crappy thing either.

Because there are a few consumers like that. There was an article on CNN a few years ago, just before the announcement of the iPad1, with a guy who said he buys anything Apple, because Apple knows what his computing needs are before he does. There are also those who do in fact buy every single Apple item on sale, even if it's just an incremental upgrade, and will quickly denounce those that do not.

Not to mention the freaks who camp outside Apple stores days before a launch.

Yeah, well, those people are indeed fanboys and utterly stupid. I didn't buy my iMac on a whim. Some people do. I did get my iPhone4 on a whim, but I needed a phone upgrade, and nothing out there matched the smoothness of the iPhone ... down to things like scrolling etc ... smooth and nice to use, whereas a lot of other devices just look clunky, navigate jerkily and slowly etc. My iPhone4 is on contract and I'd have paid for the tariff with any other phone too so it's not like it cost me a huge amount in the grand scheme of things. Glad I did though ... I hated running builds on my old iPod Touch :)

[DukeEsquire]

I haven't seen one argument about hardware yet or anything related to the parts "under the hood" its all about the chasse which goes back to my original point...consumers that like Mac's like stuff thats "pretty and shinny" rather than powerful and robust.

Like I said earlier, it's about taste. I'd rather not carry an ugly, clunky laptop. Apparently asthetic value means nothing to you, but if I'm staring at something every single day, I'm going to pay a little extra to make sure it looks nice.

Some people buy their furniture from Wal-mart, clothes from Old Navy and drive Fords.

Some people by their furniture from Williams-Sonoma, clothes from Banana Republic and drive BMWs.

They all "get the job done" but at some point, perhaps we should aim higher than the bare minimums.

[LiveAndFight]

Why are you quoting the 13 inch MBP? I asked about 27 inch PC's :) All in ones. Pretty sure they don't exist, because no one else can afford to make a system that is designed internally that neatly. I have paid for that to some degree, and I'm freaking glad I did. I can't possibly go back to a noisy PC box ... when I work at home, I work in a silent room and it's lovely. The moment my girlfriend switches on her PC, I feel like I have tinnitus or something because of the fans. And that's in a ?80 Thermaltake case I bought for that PC ... so not a cheap crappy thing either.

You can buy silent fans for the PC :/. I rarely notice the fan in my PC unless my graphics card is doing a lot of stuff.

The cheapest iMac I see for $1,199.00:

21.5-inch: 3.06GHz

27 inch | 21.5 inch

3.06GHz Intel Core i3

1920-by-1080 resolution

4GB (two 2GB) memory

500GB hard drive1

8x double-layer SuperDrive

ATI Radeon HD 4670 with 256MB

4GB of Ram?

ATI Radeon HD 4670 thats a low end D3D 10.1 card :/.

"8x double-layer SuperDrive" Now doesn't sound impressive even though its just a dvd drive.

3.06GHz Intel Core i3 - only has two cores w/ two threads each, but it at least has VT.

500GB hard drive1 - anyone know the specs for the hd they put in? Honestly a good 500gb HD might set you back $80 :/.

Source:

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac?mco=MTM3NDk0NjU

Like I said earlier, it's about taste. I'd rather not carry an ugly, clunky laptop. Apparently asthetic value means nothing to you, but if I'm staring at something every single day, I'm going to pay a little extra to make sure it looks nice.

Than thats why most people look at "Mac Fanboys" as sheep which proves my point to its entirety :). Also since your supposed to carry your laptop in a carrying case people won't see what you have anyway until you bring it out :/.

[DukeEsquire]

Than thats why most people look at "Mac Fanboys" as sheep which proves my point to its entirety :). Also since your supposed to carry your laptop in a carrying case people won't see what you have anyway until you bring it out :/.

1. I carried my Macbook Air in my backpack. I'm not sure where that comment came from.

2. I don't see how that makes me sheep. Sorry I don't like buying cheap feeling products. To each their own. I don't judge you, but apparently you feel a strong need to judge me. If I were a lessor man, I would say you were jealous.

But name calling is childish. :)

BTW, my main rig is a custom build Sandy Bridge PC. But then again, I guess I should have gotten AMD because Intel users are probably sheep too in your book.

[LiveAndFight]

1. I carried my Macbook Air in my backpack. I'm not sure where that comment came from.

2. I don't see how that makes me sheep. Sorry I don't like buying cheap feeling products. To each their own. I don't judge you, but apparently you feel a strong need to judge me. If I were a lessor man, I would say you were jealous.

But name calling is childish. :)

BTW, my main rig is a custom build Sandy Bridge PC. But then again, I guess I should have gotten AMD because Intel users are probably sheep too in your book.

Thats the point most of the time cause it would be in your backpack, and when its out I doubt you get people looking at your computer at all day :). This isn't about people that like different processors for XYZ reasons, and I'm not judging anyone I'm simply saying Mac's aren't worth the price because of the reasons I stated above :).

Computers are not like cars, chicks guys whatever aren't going to come up to you and say "Nice Apple can I take ride on your mouse?" which is why I'm pointing out there isn't a good reason why Macs cost so much, if they were cheaper and included better parts I wouldn't be saying anything but look above for $1200 you get a computer with:

A low end D3D 10.1 card with only 256mb of ram, the 1gb version is only $62 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150525&cm_re=ATI_Radeon_HD_4670-_-14-150-525-_-Product

Only 4gb of ram.

A decent processor(only has two cores)

A "superdrive"(DVD drive)

500gb hd(a $50-$80 value)

and a 21 inch screen( 24 inch screen by itself is no more than $140 ).

I don't see any hardware matching up to the price.

[Odyssey]

It's too bad that people use that term as it is all relative to whoever hears or uses it. Take me for example, I have an ipod touch and a Macbook Pro. I wanted to replace my iMac with a laptop so I tried a Dell Inspiron with Windows 7. I couldn't get it back to the store fast enough. It felt clunky to me and I wanted to go with a Mac. For that, some might call me a fanboy but I certainly don't oooh and ahhh at all things Apple, and I'm not a particular fan of Steve Jobs. But that's just my preference.

[Draconian Guppy]

All the parts come from China so there are all assembled the same way, I personally don't care if my computer gets scratched, damaged, w.e, and most flatscreens that come on laptops are all the same anyway(its like arguing LED vs LCD) with a Mac your paying more for the brand name and a nicer chasse, and I personally don't think thats worth the huge price difference :).

I haven't seen one argument about hardware yet or anything related to the parts "under the hood" its all about the chasse which goes back to my original point...consumers that like Mac's like stuff thats "pretty and shinny" rather than powerful and robust.

This doesn't apply for computer products, especially apple, under the hood: motherboards are custom made, heck the "motherboard" on the iPhone 4 is "L" Shaped. Even though they were made in China doesn't mean they came from the same fab, used the same material, etc.

[Pam14160]

Mods. . .please close; this is getting extremely stupid. Thank you ahead of time.

[DukeEsquire]

Thats the point most of the time cause it would be in your backpack, and when its out I doubt you get people looking at your computer at all day :). This isn't about people that like different processors for XYZ reasons, and I'm not judging anyone I'm simply saying Mac's aren't worth the price because of the reasons I stated above :).

Computers are not like cars, chicks guys whatever aren't going to come up to you and say "Nice Apple can I take ride on your mouse?" which is why I'm pointing out there isn't a good reason why Macs cost so much, if they were cheaper and included better parts I wouldn't be saying anything but look above for $1200 you get a computer with:

A low end D3D 10.1 card with only 256mb of ram, the 1gb version is only $62 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150525&cm_re=ATI_Radeon_HD_4670-_-14-150-525-_-Product

Only 4gb of ram.

A decent processor(only has two cores)

A "superdrive"(DVD drive)

500gb hd(a $50-$80 value)

and a 21 inch screen( 24 inch screen by itself is no more than $140 ).

I don't see any hardware matching up to the price.

Maybe you have some security issues when the first thing you think about is how other people perceive you. I didn't even make that connection when you were talking about bags.

I liked my Macbook Air because it was light and thin. I used to travel a lot and it's pretty nice to travel with a 3 lbs Macbook Air instead of a 6-7 lbs Dell. I don't care about the branding. In fact, my Macbook Air had a permanent leather cover on it so you couldn't even tell it was a Mac (no visible Apple logo). Once my job stopped having me travel so much, I sold the Macbook Air because I didn't need it and upgraded to a custom rig instead.

Doesn't mean I cheaped out on the rig though. I went for the Corsair 800D case.

When I'm buying a computer, it's just like buying a new piece of furniture, clothing or car. I'm looking at the total package. Not just hard specs, but also whether I like the look and feel of the product.

I could care less about other girls--I've got a girlfriend who loves me thank you very much--and I'm old enough not to care about peer pressure.

For me, price isn't the only factor.

[LiveAndFight]

This doesn't apply for computer products, especially apple, motherboards are custom made, heck the "motherboard" on the iPhone 4 is "L" Shaped. Even though they were made in China doesn't mean they came from the same fab, used the same material, etc.

So your paying more for a "L" shaped motherboard? :p.

Remember my previous post:

HARDWARE COST:

Graphics Card: $20-$30 - A low end D3D 10.1 card with only 256mb of ram, the 1gb version is only $62 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150525t, so there 256mb card probably costs Apple maybe $20-$30

Ram: $20 - Only 4gb of ram(You can get 12gb of good ram for $120 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145235&cm_re=ram-_-20-145-235-_-Product).

Processor: $129(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115078&cm_re=Intel_Core_i3-_-19-115-078-_-Product).

DVD-Drive: $20-40 - A "superdrive"(DVD drive)

HardDrive: $50 - 500gb hd

Screen: $139 a 21 inch screen

So computer here for $1200 http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac?mco=MTM3NDk0NjU, probably cost Apple $400 to make and probably even less cause they probably have bulk deals with the IHV's/OEM's. So again my question is where is the "bang for your buck?". Is the shinny chasse worth the $800 price difference? And before someone says "well your also paying for the OS", well thats a damn expensive OS :p.

And look at the two high end models the $1,699.00 and the $1,999.00 the only difference is the more expensive one has the i5 processor(which costs $184.99 so the price difference is $60) and a 1gb version of the graphics card I posted above which on newegg is $62(probably a $30 price difference from the low end model), so for $300 for the high end model(costs Apple at max $90 to put in the hardware) you still have a low end d3d 10.1 card and a slightly better processor.

And difference between the low end model($1200) and the high end model($1999) is $90 on top of the $400 I posted before so $490. Lets say there 27inch screen is nice so its probably around $299.99(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824016155&cm_re=monitor_27_inch-_-24-016-155-_-Product), but remember the $400 I posted above included the 21inch screen price which was $139 so lets say difference between the two is $160. So 490 + 160 = $650.

So the most expensive iMac they sell fore $1,999 costs Apple around $650 to make(probably less because of OEM, IHV bulk contracts), so they make a $1,349 profit. Thats a nice profit for Apple.

[Draconian Guppy]

I dunno, i'm talking bout iPhones :p But surely having custom made parts ups teh price a bit.

[DukeEsquire]

So your paying more for a "L" shaped motherboard? :p.

Remember my previous post:

HARDWARE COST:

Graphics Card: $20-$30 - A low end D3D 10.1 card with only 256mb of ram, the 1gb version is only $62 http://www.newegg.co...0-525-_-Product, so there 256mb card probably costs Apple maybe $20-$30

Ram: $20 - Only 4gb of ram(You can get 12gb of good ram for $120 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145235&cm_re=ram-_-20-145-235-_-Product).

Processor: $129(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115078&cm_re=Intel_Core_i3-_-19-115-078-_-Product).

DVD-Drive: $20-40 - A "superdrive"(DVD drive)

HardDrive: $50 - 500gb hd

Screen: $139 a 21 inch screen

So computer here for $1200 http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac?mco=MTM3NDk0NjU, probably cost Apple $400 to make and probably even less cause they probably have bulk deals with the IHV's/OEM's. So again my question is where is the "bang for your buck?". Is the shinny chasse worth the $800 price difference? And before someone says "well your also paying for the OS", well thats a damn expensive OS :p.

Wow, that is a beefy iPhone 4 you got there! :whistle:

[LiveAndFight]

Wow, that is a beefy iPhone 4 you got there! :whistle:

I'm not talking about the iPhone 4, I'm talking about the iMacs if you clicked the link :p.

iMac profit for Apple(http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac?mco=MTM3NDk0NjU), based on the info I posted in the above posts:

Low end iMac - Cost to consumer: $1200 cost to build $400 = $800 Apple profit.

High end iMac - Cost to consumer: $1999 cost to build $650 = $1,345 Apple profit.

And these prices are rounded up and are based on retail prices and don't include any special discounts/IHV/OEM prices so probably add $100-$200 on the profit Apple gets.

The iPhone parts similar to all phone manufacturers(including Andriod and WP7) don't cost more than $85 to make for a $500 phone but thats just the way the phone market is right now :), but I'm talking about desktop's/laptops.

[Draconian Guppy]

Ahhh at least we've still got some humor, neowinians FTW. :p

[LiveAndFight]

Ahhh at least we've still got some humor, neowinians FTW. :p

And remember the iPhone 4 still only has 512mb of ram, Andriod and WP7 have 1gb with a more powerful GPU.

The iphone 4 costs 300 with new contract and WP7 costs 200 with new contract(even less in most cases).

So you get less hardware with pretty much everything made by Apple for way more so I still ask the question...why :p.

[threetonesun]

So the most expensive iMac they sell fore $1,999 costs Apple around $650 to make(probably less because of OEM, IHV bulk contracts), so they make a $1,349 profit. Thats a nice profit for Apple.

- Apple stores and employees, which most Windows OEMs don't deal with.

I don't know how their profit gets spent, obviously, but I suspect some of it goes to iTunes/the App stores(s), which no OEMs deal with either, although that may be covered by the developer fees.

Also added to the cost is developing parts with other OEMs don't use. Even if they don't use the exact same parts, they may use the same development lines, which Apple doesn't do.

[Draconian Guppy]

And remember the iPhone 4 still only has 512mb of ram, Andriod and WP7 have 1gb with a more powerful GPU.

The iphone 4 costs 300 with new contract and WP7 costs 200 with new contract(even less in most cases).

So you get less hardware with pretty much everything made by Apple for way more so I still ask the question...why :p.

That is probably spot on.

However, android and wp7 have yet to catch on with app refinement and I really don't care about mhz and GPU, I care about audio performance, which neither nokia, samsung, lg, htc, motorola offer yet. ( Notice brands and not OS) and no, having a music player and a 3.5mm jack, doesn't make it a suitable mp3 player.

[Frylock86]

That is probably spot on.

However, android and wp7 have yet to catch on with app refinement and I really don't care about mhz and GPU, I care about audio performance, which neither nokia, samsung, lg, htc, motorola offer yet. ( Notice brands and not OS) and no, having a music player and a 3.5mm jack, doesn't make it a suitable mp3 player.

Personally, I don't understand why smartphones need to be MP3 players. I like having a separate device so I'm not killing the hell out of my battery.

[Draconian Guppy]

Agreed, but sadly portability can't be beat :(

[LiveAndFight]

- Apple stores and employees, which most Windows OEMs don't deal with.

I don't know how their profit gets spent, obviously, but I suspect some of it goes to iTunes/the App stores(s), which no OEMs deal with either, although that may be covered by the developer fees.

Also added to the cost is developing parts with other OEMs don't use. Even if they don't use the exact same parts, they may use the same development lines, which Apple doesn't do.

MS and Apple share a lot of the same IHV's/Oems. And who cares if Apples expenses are more than Windows OEMS, your still paying more for less hardware no matter how you try to spin it :).

However, android and wp7 have yet to catch on with app refinement and I really don't care about mhz and GPU, I care about audio performance, which neither nokia, samsung, lg, htc, motorola offer yet. ( Notice brands and not OS) and no, having a music player and a 3.5mm jack, doesn't make it a suitable mp3 player.

Both are still relatively new so I would agree some of the Apps are just stupid but that can be said for a lot of the apps on the Mac Store(that cat app that repeats everything you say, my boyfriend always uses that drives me crazy), and I get good quality sound on my HTC HD7 phone, to me it sounds the same as the iPhone 4.

So sense your still paying more for less hardware more technically savy people call MacHeads sheep because they defend a product that simply can't compete with its competition in terms of specs, and they pay a arm and leg to get it because its "the cool thing" because "steve jobs says so" :). Remember to read the previous page where I posted evidence on the specs and the horrendous profit Apple makes.

[threetonesun]

MS and Apple share a lot of the same IHV's/Oems. And who cares if Apples expenses are more than Windows OEMS, your still paying more for less hardware no matter how you try to spin it :).

Except, you can take your Apple to the Apple store for repair. That's part of the cost.

And even if the use the same OEMs, they use their own cases. What's the cost of an iMac case?

[ahhell]

Except, you can take your Apple to the Apple store for repair. That's part of the cost.

So what you are saying is that it's more expensive because you know you will need to get it repaired. Sounds like a sweet deal to me. :blink:

[Draconian Guppy]

MS and Apple share a lot of the same IHV's/Oems. And who cares if Apples expenses are more than Windows OEMS, your still paying more for less hardware no matter how you try to spin it :).

Both are still relatively new so I would agree some of the Apps are just stupid but that can be said for a lot of the apps on the Mac Store(that cat app that repeats everything you say, my boyfriend always uses that drives me crazy), and I get good quality sound on my HTC HD7 phone, to me it sounds the same as the iPhone 4.

So sense your still paying more for less hardware more technically savy people call MacHeads sheep because they defend a product that simply can't compete with its competition in terms of specs, and they pay a arm and leg to get it because its "the cool thing" because "steve jobs says so" :). Remember to read the previous page where I posted evidence on the specs and the horrendous profit Apple makes.

Just so you know i'm not making stuff up here:

http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_4-review-490p7.php

"Audio quality impresses

It's hardly a secret that all the previous iPhones had perfectly clean audio output with relatively low volume being their only problem. However Apple have obviously done the right thing and fixed that here, making the iPhone 4 one of the best music player among the mobile phones that we have seen. "

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd7-review-542p6.php

"As you could expect things get a bit worse when you plug in a pair of headphones, but the HD7 still maintains a very good performance. As a matter of fact the degradation is so subtle that the device ranks higher up in this scenario, than in the previous."

Notice how frequency response drops? Frequency drop = SQ degradation.

Though, i'd like to add, i'm a pseudo-audiophile a best, so everything makes a difference to mah ears :).

Though I do agree on teh profit apple has. :/