Android : Open Source ? Not any more


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First of all, the article says Google is giving a few choice companies access but there are no sources for that being true, it's completely conjecture. Second the version of Honeycomb that was released on the Xoom was a customized version with cut corners to make it work for a tight release schedule. To give that source out would be irresponsible because it wouldn't work correctly with other hardware, really what is so freaking hard to understand about this situation fellas? What's so infuriating about this entire discussion is that Google has explained why they are doing this and in their own words are going to release the source code... and yet you continue to argue it's not open because you don't have it in your hands yet. Really, you guys feel the need to deface Google based on nothing but conjecture?

Exactly...this is why many apps simply crash at startup on my Xoom. I knew going in(silly me, doing my homework before buying and b***hing), and that Honeycomb was likely not to be released to my wife's Droid X. I don't want software out there just to be out there. I want it to be out there, because it works right, following all standards and APIs. Just because it works on the Xoom does not mean it should be in the wild for everyone to screw with and complain that it sucks on their phone.

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In a truly open OS no OEM should have been allowed by Google to block ROM installation (like Motorola and HTC do).

No, actually a truly open OS means that the OEMs are free to do whatever the F they want, if they want to close it down and not let you install anything but OEM apps on it, they can, in a truly open OS. luckily, Android isn't truly open :)

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Have you tried looking or asking on XDA-Devs, sometimes it's possible to downgrade your HBOOT.

I've looked in quite a few places. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people on XDA deal with GSM Desires, not CDMA, and there are some differences in procedures there. I'll look into downgrading the hboot, but I have a feeling that it isn't going to be that simple or I would have already come across that suggestion in at least some of the places I've looked.

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In a truly open OS no OEM should have been allowed by Google to block ROM installation (like Motorola and HTC do).

That has nothing to do with the OS and everything to do with hardware. HTC and Motorola (as well as most other companies) have almost always had some kind of lock in place to try to keep people from installing unauthorized software versions on their smartphones, even before Android entered the picture.

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I just checked every link I can find about downgrading hboot, and all of them are specific to the GSM Desire, not CDMA. And according to this thread, it probably can't be done on a CDMA model since doing that generally requires a RUU, and there isn't one released for my carrier (although US Cellular has one, it is also 2.2 with the new hboot). I guess I'm just going to have to wait on the Unrevoked team to find a rooting method for the new hboot on this phone.

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I just checked every link I can find about downgrading hboot, and all of them are specific to the GSM Desire, not CDMA. And according to this thread, it probably can't be done on a CDMA model since doing that generally requires a RUU, and there isn't one released for my carrier (although US Cellular has one, it is also 2.2 with the new hboot). I guess I'm just going to have to wait on the Unrevoked team to find a rooting method for the new hboot on this phone.

...Many of you have written in with other phones that aren't compatible with SuperOneClick, and that's great! We're working on gathering together some guides and links for all of them, but for right now, here's a second incompatibility list:

HTC Desire HD

HTC Inspire 4G

HTC Legend

Motorola Atrix 4G

Sprint EVO Shift 4G

T-Mobile MyTouch 4G

We'll be adding specific guides and links for each of these as soon as we can....

The Always Up-To-Date Guide to Rooting Any Android Phone

http://lifehacker.com/#!5789397/the-always-up+to+date-guide-to-rooting-any-android-phone

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As an end-user, I don't care if software is open-source or closed-source. I care that it is polished and high quality. If making it more closed creates a better end-product, I am 100% behind Google.

This is exactly the same for me.

I don't like Google really, but would support them if this is a step towards sorting out the mess of fragmentation they have got themselves into.

I own a HTC Desire because it functions great.

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...Many of you have written in with other phones that aren't compatible with SuperOneClick, and that's great! We're working on gathering together some guides and links for all of them, but for right now, here's a second incompatibility list:

HTC Desire HD

HTC Inspire 4G

HTC Legend

Motorola Atrix 4G

Sprint EVO Shift 4G

T-Mobile MyTouch 4G

We'll be adding specific guides and links for each of these as soon as we can....

The Always Up-To-Date Guide to Rooting Any Android Phone

http://lifehacker.com/#!5789397/the-always-up+to+date-guide-to-rooting-any-android-phone

Doesn't say anythign about the CDMA version though.

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This is exactly the same for me.

I don't like Google really, but would support them if this is a step towards sorting out the mess of fragmentation they have got themselves into.

I own a HTC Desire because it functions great.

You guys don't even understand what fragmentation is. You think because HTC puts sense onto their phone it's fragmented. That is not fragmentation. Fragmentation is the different OS versions. And even apple suffers from that same issue. The only mess is when an idiot decides to buy a piece of crap phone without looking into it and then blaming problems on fragmentation rather than the manufacturer or their own ignorance.

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You guys don't even understand what fragmentation is. You think because HTC puts sense onto their phone it's fragmented. That is not fragmentation. Fragmentation is the different OS versions. And even apple suffers from that same issue. The only mess is when an idiot decides to buy a piece of crap phone without looking into it and then blaming problems on fragmentation rather than the manufacturer or their own ignorance.

HTC putting sense on their phone is one of the causes of that fragmentation. When Google pops out a new version of Android, HTC and the other manufacturers spend a few months porting all of their add-on features to the new version before they can roll it out to their phones.

You're trying to say that people should blame manufacturers for fragmentation rather than Android itself, but the manufacturers are part of the overall Android ecosystem. Android's policies could prevent that. Look at how Microsoft is handling it.

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HTC putting sense on their phone is one of the causes of that fragmentation. When Google pops out a new version of Android, HTC and the other manufacturers spend a few months porting all of their add-on features to the new version before they can roll it out to their phones.

You're trying to say that people should blame manufacturers for fragmentation rather than Android itself, but the manufacturers are part of the overall Android ecosystem. Android's policies could prevent that. Look at how Microsoft is handling it.

By giving Nokia the exclusive right to alter there's on there phones?

MS is very similar to following Apple's model, pretty much solid control of the OS experience (with above exception) and as new versions come out, some phones will stop receiving updates either deemed too old (aging hardware) or by the carrier wanting to push newer models killing support.

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By giving Nokia the exclusive right to alter there's on there phones?

MS is very similar to following Apple's model, pretty much solid control of the OS experience (with above exception) and as new versions come out, some phones will stop receiving updates either deemed too old (aging hardware) or by the carrier wanting to push newer models killing support.

On average how many updates does the average Android phone get from the manufacturer? How many updates does the average iPhone get from the manufacturer?

When an update comes out for iPhones, how many weeks does it take before the average iPhone can be updated to that new version?

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HTC putting sense on their phone is one of the causes of that fragmentation. When Google pops out a new version of Android, HTC and the other manufacturers spend a few months porting all of their add-on features to the new version before they can roll it out to their phones.

You're trying to say that people should blame manufacturers for fragmentation rather than Android itself, but the manufacturers are part of the overall Android ecosystem. Android's policies could prevent that. Look at how Microsoft is handling it.

You really want to compare to Microsoft?

As recently as January of 2011, nearly 62% of windows users were still using windows XP. An operating system that is 32 bit and released a decade ago. 13% were using Windows Vista, a decent but highly criticized OS that had numerous compatibility issues, and then we have Windows 7 which has about 25% of the share of Windows users. You have numerous manufacturers who spend very little time and effort creating software to differentiate themselves from their competitors:

HP

Toshiba

Dell

Asus

Sony

Samsung

Lenovo

None of these manufacturers spend time modifying the OS, instead they market themselves differently by changing the way their product looks on the outside. As an example, Sony has a slick futuristic, minimalistic, premium vibe... while dell has a cheap low cost leader appeal. Microsoft was not responsible for the manufacturers understanding how to market their products, they simply understood how best to sell their product to the user.

The most recent figures for Android's OS puts 90% of the user base at version 2.1 or 2.2, with no major differences between the two except the availability of Flash 10.1. Please explain to me how sense UI is causing fragmentation, and how that supposed fragmentation effected the end user. I'd love to hear that.

On average how many updates does the average Android phone get from the manufacturer? How many updates does the average iPhone get from the manufacturer?

When an update comes out for iPhones, how many weeks does it take before the average iPhone can be updated to that new version?

From my understanding iphones get 1 year of software upgrades with an additional year of software compatibility. But this is the life cycle of the phone, not of when you purchase it. If I go and buy an iPhone 4 after a year of being on the market, I sure as hell cannot expect the phone to be supported for 2 years after that purchase date.

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You really want to compare to Microsoft?

As recently as January of 2011, nearly 62% of windows users were still using windows XP. An operating system that is 32 bit and released a decade ago. 13% were using Windows Vista, a decent but highly criticized OS that had numerous compatibility issues, and then we have Windows 7 which has about 25% of the share of Windows users. You have numerous manufacturers who spend very little time and effort creating software to differentiate themselves from their competitors:

HP

Toshiba

Dell

Asus

Sony

Samsung

Lenovo

None of these manufacturers spend time modifying the OS, instead they market themselves differently by changing the way their product looks on the outside. As an example, Sony has a slick futuristic, minimalistic, premium vibe... while dell has a cheap low cost leader appeal. Microsoft was not responsible for the manufacturers understanding how to market their products, they simply understood how best to sell their product to the user.

The most recent figures for Android's OS puts 90% of the user base at version 2.1 or 2.2, with no major differences between the two except the availability of Flash 10.1. Please explain to me how sense UI is causing fragmentation, and how that supposed fragmentation effected the end user. I'd love to hear that.

Sorry if you mistook me for some sort of Microsoft fan. I'm not. I was citing specifically how they're handling the software-hardware relationship with Windows Phone 7. Even that is still theoretical of course because they seem to be having some trouble executing on that.

Desktop OSes are completely different. Does upgrading from Android 2.2 to 2.3 cost you $100+ for the software license? I didn't think so.

As far as Sense etc. go, I was responding to someone who seemed to be arguing that manufacturer modifications and software version fragmentation were unrelated. I was just pointing out that of course they are. Any manufacturer who has to add stuff to the base OS then has more work to do when a new version comes out. That's why the stock android phones tend to get updates first.

I don't follow Android update news that closely since I don't own one. Are there any HTC phones running 2.3 yet? How does that compare to phones released with stock unmodified Android?

Again, nothing specific against Sense, it's the example the person I replied to used.

From my understanding iphones get 1 year of software upgrades with an additional year of software compatibility. But this is the life cycle of the phone, not of when you purchase it. If I go and buy an iPhone 4 after a year of being on the market, I sure as hell cannot expect the phone to be supported for 2 years after that purchase date.

The life cycle argument applies to every other phone as well.

I believe iPhones get about two years of support, minus features deemed not really compatible with older hardware.

My main argument was that iPhones get updates reliably and without delay when they're within the support period, and that support period is in the top class for smartphones.

Yes, a lot of Android phones can be updated without the manufacturer issuing an update thanks to the modding community, but most of that applies to the iPhone as well (unlocking multitasking features on the iPhone 3G for example).

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The Always Up-To-Date Guide to Rooting Any Android Phone

http://lifehacker.com/#!5789397/the-always-up+to+date-guide-to-rooting-any-android-phone

Dude, do you ever bother to actually check out the relevance of what you post??

From the link you posted:

With that in mind, I'd recommend checking the incompatibility list here. If you have one of these phones, you'll want to skip down to the next section:

?Sprint EVO 4G (HTC Supersonic)

?Droid Incredible (HTC Incredible)

?HTC Desire GSM

?HTC Desire CDMA (HTC BravoC)

The bolded phone is the one I have!!!! And the "next section" they talk about above is for using Unrevoked (which I've already stated does NOT work for the newest update on this phone).

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Doesn't say anythign about the CDMA version though.

I think he missed the paragraph before the one he posted (that I quoted above) where it lists the initial incompatible phones. What he posted were incompatible phones in addition to the other list (not in the place of the other list). I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there that maybe he misread that section, but unfortunately, that does nothing to help me (or any other person with an unrootable CDMA HTC Desire).

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Have you tried using a goldcard to flash an older ROM, roadwarrior?

The problem with that idea is this: that would require that an older stock ROM existed for this phone. The only CDMA ROM that has been released for it is (wait for it) the US Cellular one that is also 2.2 with the 1.06.000 hboot!! There is supposedly also an Alltel ROM out there, but I believe that it is also 2.2 (although I'm not sure of the hboot version). Here is one thread about it: http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/10004-alltel-cdma-desire-ruu/ Even if it worked, I'd still have to screw with a bunch of settings to get MMS (and possibly internet) working, and still be stuck with a phone that is branded to a different carrier. Hell, if I were going to do that, I'd just flash the US Cellular ROM and be done with it, since it does at least have the wifi tethering enabled. I had tested it on the previous phone we had before it developed the wifi and sd card issues, which led to us getting it replaced under warranty. Unfortunately, I have a suspicion that the US Cellular ROM might have contributed to those problems, so I'm VERY leery of installing a ROM from a different carrier again.

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Sorry if you mistook me for some sort of Microsoft fan. I'm not. I was citing specifically how they're handling the software-hardware relationship with Windows Phone 7. Even that is still theoretical of course because they seem to be having some trouble executing on that.

Desktop OSes are completely different. Does upgrading from Android 2.2 to 2.3 cost you $100+ for the software license? I didn't think so. Good point but remember you don't pay for minor version of Windows either. Windows XP SP 1 Sp 2 Sp 3.... and those added functionality

As far as Sense etc. go, I was responding to someone who seemed to be arguing that manufacturer modifications and software version fragmentation were unrelated. I was just pointing out that of course they are. Any manufacturer who has to add stuff to the base OS then has more work to do when a new version comes out. That's why the stock android phones tend to get updates first. Actually the stock android phones (Nexus Phones) get updates because Google is the one responsible for updating them. The manufacturers are hands off for those two models. But you are correct, it's the manufacturers that are causing the delay between when Google releases and OS and when phones get that upgrade.

I don't follow Android update news that closely since I don't own one. Are there any HTC phones running 2.3 yet? How does that compare to phones released with stock unmodified Android? HTC Nexus 1 and Samsung Nexus S are the only two phones officially running Gingerbread at this moment.

Again, nothing specific against Sense, it's the example the person I replied to used.

The life cycle argument applies to every other phone as well.

I believe iPhones get about two years of support, minus features deemed not really compatible with older hardware.

My main argument was that iPhones get updates reliably and without delay when they're within the support period, and that support period is in the top class for smartphones. Agreed but why does iOS have a more fragmented user base?

Yes, a lot of Android phones can be updated without the manufacturer issuing an update thanks to the modding community, but most of that applies to the iPhone as well (unlocking multitasking features on the iPhone 3G for example).

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The problem with that idea is this: that would require that an older stock ROM existed for this phone. The only CDMA ROM that has been released for it is (wait for it) the US Cellular one that is also 2.2 with the 1.06.000 hboot!! There is supposedly also an Alltel ROM out there, but I believe that it is also 2.2 (although I'm not sure of the hboot version). Here is one thread about it: http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/10004-alltel-cdma-desire-ruu/ Even if it worked, I'd still have to screw with a bunch of settings to get MMS (and possibly internet) working, and still be stuck with a phone that is branded to a different carrier. Hell, if I were going to do that, I'd just flash the US Cellular ROM and be done with it, since it does at least have the wifi tethering enabled. I had tested it on the previous phone we had before it developed the wifi and sd card issues, which led to us getting it replaced under warranty. Unfortunately, I have a suspicion that the US Cellular ROM might have contributed to those problems, so I'm VERY leery of installing a ROM from a different carrier again.

Have you not considered trying a generic, unbranded HTC ROM? Usually, they should have the APN's for most big networks already present.

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Have you not considered trying a generic, unbranded HTC ROM? Usually, they should have the APN's for most big networks already present.

There AREN'T any generic, unbranded HTC ROMs for CDMA phones (at least not ones that you can use without already being rooted). I know you mean well, and thanks for pointing out some things I haven't thought of, but you keep suggesting things from the perspective of a GSM user (which is understandable, considering your location). The CDMA world is very different (and much more limited) when it comes to these phones, unfortunately.

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Not sure about iOS versus Android fragmentation. The methods by which they are calculated tend to be based on reports from app developers, ad networks, and website tracking. Maybe those who have phones on the latest version of Android tend to browse the web more or are more likely to have apps installed?

It might also have something to do with the fact that you have to plug in an iOS device to receive an update. Doing in via the cell networks has its own host of issues (as Microsoft and Android manufacturers have run into) but I bet if it would notify you and let you download an update when on your home WiFi network more users would upgrade.

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There AREN'T any generic, unbranded HTC ROMs for CDMA phones (at least not ones that you can use without already being rooted). I know you mean well, and thanks for pointing out some things I haven't thought of, but you keep suggesting things from the perspective of a GSM user (which is understandable, considering your location). The CDMA world is very different (and much more limited) when it comes to these phones, unfortunately.

No, I simply wasn't aware of that, sorry, I presumed HTC released generic ROMs for all of their phones. It looks as if most floating out there are Verizon ROMs, which is a shame. HTC have obviously beefed up their security which kind of sucks. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful and I hope you solve the problem eventually.

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No, I simply wasn't aware of that, sorry, I presumed HTC released generic ROMs for all of their phones.

It's cool. Again, thanks for your help. Honestly, I wish XDA would split the HTC Desire forum between GSM and CDMA (hell, they should do that for EVERY phone that has both versions), since they really are totally different beasts in most ways. What works for one rarely works for the other.

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