Analyst thinks Samsung is fighting Windows Phone from the inside

Samsung would seem to be a solid supporter of Microsoft's Windows Phone efforts. Samsung has released smartphones for all versions of Windows Phone, most recently releasing a Windows Phone 8 device with the ATIV S in Europe and Canada and the ATIV Odyssey in the U.S.

But is there more to Samsung's Windows Phone hardware strategy than meets the eye? AllThingsD.com reports that, according to a note today by Detwiler Fenton analyst Jeff Johnston, Samsung has made no effort to boost sales of the ATIV Odyssey in the U.S., which is being sold exclusively by Verizon.

While a case could be made that Samsung simply has smartphones it would rather sell, such as the Galaxy S and Galaxy Note series, Johnson has another theory:

Our checks indicate that Samsung may be intentionally gobbling up Microsoft’s smartphone resources as a strategic move to impede the adoption of Windows Phone 8. While Samsung insists on receiving extensive engineering support (which they are getting) from Microsoft, there is no evidence that Samsung has any interest in seeing the Windows Phone platform succeed.

So basically, Johnson says that Samsung is deliberating wasting Microsoft's time, money and efforts in helping Samsung launch a Windows Phone device while Samsung is doing nothing of note itself. The article speculates that Samsung will try to launch smartphones running its own OS, Tizen, that would compete with iOS, Android, Windows Phone and BlackBerry.

Samsung has shown it can sell smartphones with its own UI over that of Android with its Galaxy series. Will it take the next step and do away with Android altogether and in so doing take Microsoft's Windows Phone down for the count? We don't think so. Samsung has always been something of a third string Windows Phone maker, well behind that of Nokia and HTC.

Microsoft has put far more promotional efforts in trying to sell HTC and Nokia smartphones. If Samsung suddenly pulled out of its Windows Phone support (as LG previously did), we doubt it would get much notice from Microsoft.

Source: AllThingsD.com | Image via Samsung

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Meh, Samsung is evil, their success comes from copying Apple (in the past, not as much now), and Samsung, not Apple, is killing Nokia's strength, which are the low-end phones.

The saddest thing is how Samsung's low-end and mid-range phones are all crap, whereas Nokia's low-end phones (Asha) have extremely great value for money and the mid-range Lumias perform like a high-end phones.

Why would Samsung invest money in a platform that is not really going anywhere? When you campare Samsung WinPhone to Samsung Android there is no contest. Actually I am surprised that Samsung even offer a Windows phone.

I would really like to know how many Windows Phones are actually in existence from 7 to 8. With Google announcing 750 million Android devices activated, I would like to know how much so far for WP.

Let Samsung go at it alone.
If Samsung's long con is to weaken its partners in order to better position itself in the global market, then MS (and others) should help them make that decision now. Only a fool would let them continue to steal tech (Nokia/Apple), resources, and slowly bleed them.

As far as Windows phone goes, Samsung makes nothing more than cookie cutter phones, which are re-labeled Android devices. Good riddance.

Greetings from Asia. Of course, everyone here knows that Samsung - as well as Huawei and ZTE - are preparing to dump Google in favour of Tizen. You might notice I said dump Google and not dump Android. There's a reason for this. In fact there are several.

In the court case Oracle vs Google that will start its appeal hearing later this year in California, Google claims they're perfectly entitled to do what they're doing to Java - use the open source parts of Java to effectively destroy the Java ecosystem itself. Their argument is that this is in the public interest.

Unfortunately, with Tizen, what Samsung and the others are doing is to take the open source parts of Android and use them to destroy Android. They can build (legally according to Google) a version of Tizen that is capable of running all the Android apps without having to acknowledge Google at all. They'll obviously win that argument since Google are pressing the same in court papers.

All manufacturers, except Motorola (so far), pay a license fee ($5 - $35) to Microsoft for the considerable number of breaches of Microsoft's patents in Android. It's now looking increasingly like Google/Motorola are also about to fold as they're losing cases in the USA and Germany very badly. Google will have to pay a license fee to Microsoft every time they activate a "free" Android handset. This is likely why Andy Rubin walked away. He's being branded a thief in courts all around the world and is humiliated.

These license fees are killing the Asian manufacturers who have signalled they've had enough and are switching to Tizen before the next round of law suits hits them. That will leave Motorola and HTC as the only two companies pushing Android while all the advertising and app-store revenues will shift to the handset manufacturers. It not only makes good business sense for them, it's inevitable. All this will happen before Xmas and you'll likely hear the name Intel mentioned a lot.

Major Plonquer said,

All manufacturers, except Motorola (so far), pay a license fee ($5 - $35) to Microsoft for the considerable number of breaches of Microsoft's patents in Android. It's now looking increasingly like Google/Motorola are also about to fold as they're losing cases in the USA and Germany very badly. Google will have to pay a license fee to Microsoft every time they activate a "free" Android handset. This is likely why Andy Rubin walked away. He's being branded a thief in courts all around the world and is humiliated.

I hear this all the time. I don't believe it.

I don't believe that Android phone manufacturers are paying Microsoft $35, or even $5 for each phone. If they were, then it would amount to $1-7 billion a year of revenue. This would make it material, which would lead Microsoft to talk it up endlessly at investor presentations -- as Qualcomm does. But Microsoft doesn't. And you certainly don't see billions of dollars a year showing up like magic on Microsoft's income statement.

I suspect the fee is closer to 50 cents, plus a patent cross-license. This would be about $100 million a year, which is small by Microsoft standards. Microsoft reports in billions, so you'd simply see an uptick in one decimal place.

It's true, Microsoft asks for a higher fee at the start of negotiations. But they will settle for a patent cross-licensing agreement plus a very nominal fee. That's just what lawyers do -- they come up with a completely unreasonable number and then negotiate it down. This also explains why so many Android-based manufacturers have settled with Microsoft -- because it's just too cheap not to.

The one exception being Google, which is attempting to charge Microsoft highly-discriminatory licensing fees for their Motorola patents. Because Google has not proven amenable to negotiation, Microsoft is not going to unilaterally disarm and reduce the fees that they're demanding from Google.

Major Plonquer said,

All manufacturers, except Motorola (so far), pay a license fee ($5 - $35) to Microsoft for the considerable number of breaches of Microsoft's patents in Android. It's now looking increasingly like Google/Motorola are also about to fold as they're losing cases in the USA and Germany very badly. Google will have to pay a license fee to Microsoft every time they activate a "free" Android handset. This is likely why Andy Rubin walked away. He's being branded a thief in courts all around the world and is humiliated.

These license fees are killing the Asian manufacturers who have signalled they've had enough and are switching to Tizen before the next round of law suits hits them. That will leave Motorola and HTC as the only two companies pushing Android while all the advertising and app-store revenues will shift to the handset manufacturers. It not only makes good business sense for them, it's inevitable. All this will happen before Xmas and you'll likely hear the name Intel mentioned a lot.

You do know that if they use the open source part of Android, the same things apply to Tizen as Android = it infringes on Microsoft it's patents, and thus OEM's will need to pay Microsoft for patents licenses as well...

i'm in favor for Samsung to develop its own OS,
after Microsoft OS are known to be buggy, glitchy, & unsecure that need to be updated often,
and even with THAT repeatedly updated, theres new buggy, glitchy & unsecure problem arise.

So yeah, perhaps samsung could produce better OS.

Microsoft WP8 buggy, glitch and insecure????? I think you are referring to android there.


Samsung are doing this to everyone, Apple, Microsoft and very soon the y will be giving Google the finger too, Samsung have a master plan here and its not just MS they are trying to hurt.

korupt_one said,
Microsoft WP8 buggy, glitch and insecure????? I think you are referring to android there.

Android sure, but trying to hide WP's rotten-ness by finger pointing to Android is stupid.

Talking about stupid:
http://ph.news.yahoo.com/windo...llation-disc-115028476.html

korupt_one said,
Samsung are doing this to everyone, Apple, Microsoft and very soon the y will be giving Google the finger too, Samsung have a master plan here and its not just MS they are trying to hurt.

Which why Samsung should do it, creates their own good OS.

that link was showing people that windows phone 8 is actually based on the NT kernel, Windows Phones don't actually do that they are very stable fluid and fast. Please know what your talking about first, Android has to be one of the slowest, buggiest and insecure mobile OS's available

Torolol said,

Android sure, but trying to hide WP's rotten-ness by finger pointing to Android is stupid.

Talking about stupid:
http://ph.news.yahoo.com/windo...llation-disc-115028476.html


Which why Samsung should do it, creates their own good OS.


Hahaha tool, getting that 'bootmenu' in WP8 is impossible in the real world without hacking the phone itself dude.
So its idiotic to use this to show that WP is an unstable OS and worse then Android.
Enjoy your android with its malware that is obtainable THROUGH THE STORE.

Torolol said,
i'm in favor for Samsung to develop its own OS,
after Microsoft OS are known to be buggy, glitchy, & unsecure that need to be updated often,

Good to know that some people are still living in 2004.

Torolol said,
i'm in favor for Samsung to develop its own OS,
after Microsoft OS are known to be buggy, glitchy, & unsecure that need to be updated often,
and even with THAT repeatedly updated, theres new buggy, glitchy & unsecure problem arise.

So yeah, perhaps samsung could produce better OS.

I've been using a Windows Phone device, a Nokia Lumia 800, since April 2012. Could you tell me what you mean with updated often? As far as I know I only needed to install 2 updates in nearly a year. One of which was a huge update (7.8), and one which fixed some bugs. 2 updates for a full year isn't a lot.

Also, could you tell me what glitches you mean with a concrete real-life example, not a result of hacking your phone? I haven't encountered them in nearly a year of usage. Also buggy? Can't say that here.
And we have 3 Nokia Lumia 800's here in house. And one Android phone which is lagging often, struggling to do easy things...

And I'm also in favor of Samsung making their own mobile OS, only to be sued by all other phone manufactors...

Hmmm....on one hand you have the 2nd best selling phone on the planet, doing incredible sales...and on the other, you have a phone that you almost have to pay people to use! I wonder which one I would focus on if I were in charge...tough choice!

Next big software update combined with a high end phone done by microsoft and i would probably buy it in an instant.

Microsoft could have agreed with Samsung to lower patent fees for Samsung android phones if Samsung commits to make windows phone, now Samsung recycles some android phone with low investment and release in few countries with no marketing just to get Microsoft discounts, Microsoft got samsunged!!! Samsung tried to sell Windows RT tablets for $600+ but same kind of Android tablet Samsung is selling for $300-$400

I'm not sure I believe this, but it would certainly explain what happened with the Samsung Focus ...

When Microsoft rolled out the first update to Windows Phone in 2011, they discovered that it was bricking a number of Samsung phones, including the Focus. Upon investigation, Microsoft discovered that Samsung had changed some of the chips, in the middle of the production run, without telling Microsoft. What's more, they kept the same hardware revision number, so that Microsoft could not tell which phone it was by querying the model string.

Whereas other manufacturers held back on approving the update until they'd tested it thoroughly, Samsung approved the update and let it get pushed out to users. There was thus a mismatch between the drivers and the hardware. Which bricked the phones.

At the time, I thought that it was just the usual OEM shenanigans. I mean, PC OEMs do dumb stuff all the time, and Windows Mobile was famously loaded down with crapware. So why should Microsoft expect phone OEMs to behave better for Windows Phone? I thought it was amateurish of Microsoft to get caught out like that. They should've had people going into stores and buying phones to test them out.

But Jeff Johnston seems to be saying that Samsung has gone beyond that. They're not just clueless or incompetent, they're deliberately introducing problems.

That's a pretty serious charge. Does he have proof?

Do we have proof Samsung deliberately delays components to rival manufactures? No but I'm betting some internal sources do and wouldn't dare think about leaking that information. Samsung are an unethical company and wouldn't trust them for a second. They're out to make money and it would seem like they will do anything no matter how questionable.

ingramator said,
Samsung are an unethical company and wouldn't trust them for a second. They're out to make money and it would seem like they will do anything no matter how questionable.

Every company is unethical and will do anything the can to make money. Making money is the prime goal for companies...

MFH said,

Every company is unethical and will do anything the can to make money. Making money is the prime goal for companies...

While I will agree every companies prime goal is to make money, I will never agree that a company has to be corrupt to do so, or rather resort to being corrupt.

auziez said,

While I will agree every companies prime goal is to make money, I will never agree that a company has to be corrupt to do so, or rather resort to being corrupt.


They don't have to, but in reality every major successful company is...

... Seriously? This is an absurd claim not backed by the slightest shred of evidence apart from the claim of one guy who may have an axe of his own to grind. Perhaps Samsung have simply introduced those handsets to judge whether going with WP will be a profitable venture for them and are not going to go in full blooded until they know they can turn a profit. I do agree that the marketing for their WP phones has been a bit low key, but then it was when they introduced their first Android phones as well.

Give it time and don't be so eager to jump to conclusions. Samsung's Android phones are selling extremely well on their own merit, and WP is hardly a massive threat. What this article is asserting simply makes no sense at all.

deadonthefloor said,
.....

This is the reason I jumped ship when Nokia dumped their burning platform.

The ATIV S is a rehashed Galaxy S, right down to the hardware home, I mean start button.

Feels like how some think some of the major PC OEMs have been sabotaging Microsoft for years by putting out terrible hardware offerings. Especially now that there is proof that you can compete by putting out an OS that does little more than web surf and facetwatchat.

No loss.. I had the Samsung Focus when Windows 7 came out.. it was an OK phone, cheap feel though and after two years of heavy use.. it was basically falling apart.
Samsung can keep their plastic crap.. I'll pass..

they did well with WP7 handsets before Nokia entered the market. It's all about exclusive apps, Samsung simply have nothing valuable and thus much inferior to Nokia devices.

Samsung isn't trying because they're focusing their efforts on the Galaxy line.

That said, I'm not enamored by Samsung's smartphone offerings. They're cheap, plastic mess without a premium feel. Nokia has them bested, and if Nokia continues down the path they're going right now, they'll do well. Once the 5xx and 7xx series launch, they'll have: 5xx, 6xx, 7xx, 8xx, and 9xx series phones available from low price points off contract to premium prices on contract. And now they're moving to metal phones.

wp has to sell by itself atleast to an acceptable level even before trying to boost.
so no surprise sammy is not even trying.

As a WP OEM if Samsung doesnt try, how will they sell any handsets? Have to at least make an effort if they want to see any decent returns and so far only Nokia is doing anything tangible and they are seeing the result as they dominate WP sales. As the OS grows they will be the OEM of choice and it will be a well deserved position, standing by and waiting for the OS to take off magically without support isnt going to help.

It's obvious that their primary focus is Android. They've only released one WP8 device, the Samsung ATIV S, and I don't think it sold well compared to other WP8 devices (e.g. Nokia Lumia 920, HTC 8X).

Nokia, on the other hand, is betting everything on WP and it shows. They have the widest variety of WP7.x/8 devices as well as the most popular. I wouldn't be surprised to see Samsung calling it quits with WP. That leaves Nokia, HTC, and Huawei (Ascend W1).

I think I agree. And Microsoft isn't making it easier. I've worked hard over the past 8 years to consolidate on the Microsoft Platforms, including phone and tablet (the hardest). The Surface Pro, as a laptop will make it. But it was a sad day today as we opened up and actually now have fully accepted Android phones. Microsoft refuses native support and there no easy options for u-law G.711. We are a CISCO VOIP shop and many VIPs have Vonage at home.

We need u-law for other VM processes so that's it.

Each flaw affects a different segment, many can completely blow off another's showstopper. But the omissions or flaws can have a significant impact for those who are affected by them.

What's worse, Microsoft just isn't listening right now. We don't even call our reps anymore. They express the same frustration believe it or not. Microsoft just isn't listening.

ahoncbt said,
wp has to sell by itself atleast to an acceptable level even before trying to boost.
so no surprise sammy is not even trying.

I don't think your read the article right, it states that Samsung is wasting Microsoft's resources for their gain. There is no other nice way you can put this.

Anaron said,
It's obvious that their primary focus is Android. They've only released one WP8 device, the Samsung ATIV S, and I don't think it sold well compared to other WP8 devices (e.g. Nokia Lumia 920, HTC 8X).

Nokia, on the other hand, is betting everything on WP and it shows. They have the widest variety of WP7.x/8 devices as well as the most popular. I wouldn't be surprised to see Samsung calling it quits with WP. That leaves Nokia, HTC, and Huawei (Ascend W1).

Oh Samsung will be dropping Android fairly soon too, they will focus on there own OS.

korupt_one said,

Oh Samsung will be dropping Android fairly soon too, they will focus on there own OS.

How would Samsung benefit from developing their own OS? Their Galaxy line of smartphones is pretty strong with Android. And people associated a high-end Android device with Samsung. I don't think it's a good idea unless their own OS is based on Android (and can benefit from future updates to Android).