Anon in chaos as command structure fails [Updated]

Following yesterday's attacks on various websites that have been seen by Anon to oppose WikiLeaks, including Visa, Mastercard and PayPal, Neowin has been monitoring the discussions occurring within the group. What has become apparent is that the organisation and command structure of the group has collapsed, resulting in complete anarchy on their IRC servers, and even an attempted mutiny by some participants.

Since Twitter yesterday shut down the 'official' profile of the group, a number of alternates sprung up run by supporters of the cause, each trying to shepherd fellow Anon members towards the latest target. None of these accounts are run by members of the Anon 'command', and thus have often caused confusion and spread false information. A good example of this is the widely reported failed attack on Amazon this afternoon. In reality, there never was any plan to attack Amazon, and indeed, such an attack would be pointless with the numbers currently involved.

There has also been a lot of talk within splinter groups of a second attack against Mastercard, and a vote was taken to select that as the next target. However, with the commanders of the group out of contact, no new orders are being passed down, and the attack has continued to be aimed squarely at PayPal's API throughout the day.

In the past half hour, representatives of the people at the head of Operation Payback have reappeared on IRC, and announced that they are currently busy fighting to keep the IRC services online, along with the various domains and websites used by the group, and have no time to coordinate a fresh attack at the moment.

From an outsiders viewpoint, it appears that the group is now falling apart, and we could be watching the final hours of this Anon assault to defend WikiLeaks.

Update: The group has set their sights now on MoneyBookers.com, a UK based firm similar to PayPal. Like PayPal, they have been blocking donations to WikiLeaks. At the time of writing this update, the attack has been active for 50 minutes, with no noticeable effects, aside from a few seconds of downtime. This, combined with the failed attack on PayPal earlier today, just goes to demonstrate that Anon no longer have have the supporters they need to continue this campaign. No doubt though, once they throw in the towel, they will regroup and come back in full-force at some point in the future.

Update 2: Anon has released a press statement designed, in part, to refute the message of this article. However, given the failure of their latest attack, and the anarchy that has descended on their IRC server, we stand by what was published.

Update 3: An announcement was recently made by a representative of Operation Payback's commanders, to call off the attacks.

<&EvilBoat> Hey guys. We think we've made our point, and we should hold off for a little while.
<&EvilBoat> That's our opinion, thanks.

This has met with agreement from some, with one member saying "i agree with command. weve made our point and shouldnt attack anything anymore as of now", and another calling for reorganisation before any new attacks. Others seem keen to carry on the attack, with small groups trying to rally support for a fresh attack on Mastercard, meeting some support, but a lot of resistance from the rest of the group.

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treemonster said,
yet another neowin reporter fails to do basic research on the subject in his post.

why is the author calling the group Anon? dude its anonymous. and after what they did yesterday i don't see them splitting anytime soon

treemonster said,
yet another neowin reporter fails to do basic research on the subject in his post.

Or they are just trying to do damage control because they have no clue how to organize squat.

treemonster said,
yet another neowin reporter fails to do basic research on the subject in his post.

If there are two groups now instead of one how did he not do his research?

Oh whatever, they're attacking basically every large site there is now. Amazon.com? Twitter? Anybody who gets in their way.

No, they are not. A sect that has nothing to do with the anon command attempted to get others to take out Amazon claiming they were representing annon

hey guys isnt it dangerous to be on the IRC? how does one tell if you are involved with them or not or a reporter or a curious watcher?? last time i checked they said law enforcement agents were monitoring chats and logging users ???????????????

Love how some of you are taking this article and turning it towards a bash fest on the U.S, Lets not forget some european countries are oh so close to full fledged communism.

AnotherITguy said,
Love how some of you are taking this article and turning it towards a bash fest on the U.S, Lets not forget some european countries are oh so close to full fledged communism.

like?

Oh boy those kids and their toys. Good thing that if they do not end up in jail they can focus on something more productive. You know guys when you become 22 and graduate university all this "practical" experience will be useful in your real career. Btw you do not really think that a grown up person making 100K and above will start a DDoS attack and get involved in some BS matter like Wikileaks?

don't care how truthful the article is, I hope they stop soon. Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, don't deserve this and neither do their customers. A few comments on other articles on here from members have said that these companies deserve it for shutting down the Wikileaks accounts without proper proof. Proof or no proof these companies don't want the PR of wikileaks and are doing what is best for their companies. This whole cyberwar thing in support of wikileaks is just plain stupid

wv@gt said,
This whole cyberwar thing in support of wikileaks is just plain stupid

The only thing that is stupid is blind allegiance to these companies that want to preserve the status quo of lies & deceit. I don't' support DDoS attacks, however its high time we stand up and fight for our democracy or let it fail completely. This ****ing around in the middle blows.

blahism said,

The only thing that is stupid is blind allegiance to these companies that want to preserve the status quo of lies & deceit. I don't' support DDoS attacks, however its high time we stand up and fight for our democracy or let it fail completely. This ****ing around in the middle blows.

+1

I'll admit that I don't really know enough to say anything relevant, but, to me, wikileaks sounds like a black market for stolen or otherwise obtained information. But instead of selling it, they drop it off in places for everyone to see, but the "bad people" get it and use it to do whatever it is they want to do with that info. So since thay aren't selling the stolen or otherwise obtained information they are not technicaly breaking the law, but its like leaving loaded weapons in a box in a location where known terrorists and the like roam,there for them to pick up and use to carry out their ilegal actions. Leaving stolen weapons somewhere isnt illegal, though irresponsible, but selling them is...Thats how i see it

APAstyle said,
But instead of selling it, they drop it off in places for everyone to see, but the "bad people" get it and use it to do whatever it is they want to do with that info.

Yet ironically, Amazon is selling it.

XeonBuilder said,
Actually they did break the law. They posted stolen classified documents. Classified information is sensitive information to which access is restricted by law or regulation to particular classes of persons. A formal security clearance is required to handle classified documents or access classified data.

They should go to jail and the site should be shut down. Simple as that.

As for these other idiots ANON, lock their candy asses up too.

I don't give a rats behind about a document being classified. We have way too much of this classified nonsense, at least in America (if not in other countries as well). Oh, the men and women are always sold the bill of goods about how it is for their best interest. I wish they would do us a favor and stop "helping us" by having a million secrets, withholding useful technology from us, withholding known cures to cancer and diseases, and basically lying their butts off to us (thru non-disclosure) by classifying information.

Maybe there is a time and place for some information to be classified, but a large portion of this classified information being kept from men and women is NOT in their best interest, despite the lies being told to them.

JayZJay said,

I don't give a rats behind about a document being classified. We have way too much of this classified nonsense, at least in America (if not in other countries as well). Oh, the men and women are always sold the bill of goods about how it is for their best interest. I wish they would do us a favor and stop "helping us" by having a million secrets, withholding useful technology from us, withholding known cures to cancer and diseases, and basically lying their butts off to us (thru non-disclosure) by classifying information.

Maybe there is a time and place for some information to be classified, but a large portion of this classified information being kept from men and women is NOT in their best interest, despite the lies being told to them.

Get off your high horse and understand that things are not classified for your best interest. The US could care less about you. What makes a document classified 90% of the time is the source. The information itself may be very bland and irrelevant but the method obtained is what is being protected. It is being protected from the countries that want to do you and your family harm. 95% of the world is not out to destroy you but that 5% is and that is who these documents are being protected from.

Hellacool said,

Get off your high horse and understand that things are not classified for your best interest. The US could care less about you. What makes a document classified 90% of the time is the source. The information itself may be very bland and irrelevant but the method obtained is what is being protected. It is being protected from the countries that want to do you and your family harm. 95% of the world is not out to destroy you but that 5% is and that is who these documents are being protected from.

Yeah, and the Twin Towers came down as the result of 1) terrorists flying planes with hardly any experience and 2) jet fuel that doesn't burn hot enough to melt the steel in those buildings.

Keep pipe dreaming...


I got an idea...put down the keyboard and mouse..put on some warm clothes (if needed) and step out side and breathe some fresh air in..people really have forgot what licing is all about...sittting in front of a computer for 18 hours a day waiting for tweet or a twit is not living. Do yourself and the world a favor and give it a break evey once in a while. The worlds needs a tech-free day set aside to remind us all that the most important things in life arent inside of a piece of technology but are the real flesh and blood people in our lives, the mountains and the waterfalls that make us all go ahhhhhhh.

Windows7even said,
I got an idea...put down the keyboard and mouse..put on some warm clothes (if needed) and step out side and breathe some fresh air in..people really have forgot what licing is all about...sittting in front of a computer for 18 hours a day waiting for tweet or a twit is not living. Do yourself and the world a favor and give it a break evey once in a while. The worlds needs a tech-free day set aside to remind us all that the most important things in life arent inside of a piece of technology but are the real flesh and blood people in our lives, the mountains and the waterfalls that make us all go ahhhhhhh.

Coming from someone with a username of Windows7even and an icon of ATI Eyefinity, That made me laugh

Windows7even said,
people really have forgot what licing is all about...

I agree, it's all about the removal of lice, but people often forget that.

Anyway good to see Anon falter and hopefully the majority of these misfits will eventually be tracked down, arrested and jailed. The fact that they've even considered attacking Neowin because of these stories shows that they are just as bad as the people they're attacking.

Mob rule is never the answer.

Most of the DDoS attacks against Mastercard Visa Paypal could of been averted if.
MC - PP - Visa turned around and said to the US Authorties, Gov so on. That the Problems you have with Wikileaks, has nothing to do with us. Keep us out of it. Who are they *US* to say that people can't donate to wikileaks using provided servies by MC PP Visa.

I have a suggestion: how about we stop discussing the messenger and start reading the message? Unfortunately, more attention is being given to side-aspects than to the cables themselves.

Setnom said,
I have a suggestion: how about we stop discussing the messenger and start reading the message? Unfortunately, more attention is being given to side-aspects than to the cables themselves.

The cables them selves aren't that unexpected, id say the message is more...theres no freedom and the USA can abuse its power like it did with piracy and do whatever they want online and no one question them because the media is plastered with talk of how Wikileaks are terrorists

This kind of acivity shows that anon is packed with idiots and that EVERYONE is giving wikileaks too much credit, they didn't break any real news or make any real changes. This was not Watergate or the Pentagon Papers and wikileaks opeartors are not journalist but publicity whores.

bob_c_b said,
This kind of acivity shows that anon is packed with idiots and that EVERYONE is giving wikileaks too much credit, they didn't break any real news or make any real changes. This was not Watergate or the Pentagon Papers and wikileaks opeartors are not journalist but publicity whores.

Please explain how this isn't like the Pentagon papers and how you are using this to judge wikileaks which did not support this?

bob_c_b said,
This kind of acivity shows that anon is packed with idiots and that EVERYONE is giving wikileaks too much credit, they didn't break any real news or make any real changes. This was not Watergate or the Pentagon Papers and wikileaks opeartors are not journalist but publicity whores.

At least someone here knows what Anon is really about to some extent

A little good ole fashion revolt is not all bad. I'm sick of our world being ran by corporate fictions while the real flesh & blood men and women, the Sponsors of the Credit that all of these governments and corporations depend on, just get screwed right and left. We could use more sites like InfoWars.com, WikiLeaks, etc giving the real news, not this propaganda BS we are fed for the most part from mainstream media (newspapers, radio, TV, magazines, and websites). That is not to say that InfoWars.com, WikiLeaks, and others are perfect, not at all, but neither is mainstream media and we know for a fact that they lie and withhold information.

For those that think that last statement is poppy-**** nonsense, feel free to read the following:


The Media and its Lies

Here are some quotations from famous men disproving the credibility of the media:

1. John Swinton, the former Chief of Staff at the New York Times, was referred to by his peers as "The Dean of His Profession". In 1953, he was asked to give a toast for the independent press before the prestigious New York Press Club. It was obvious that he believed the concept of an independent press was a farce which he no longer wished to be a part of. Here is a quote from his monumentally revealing toast:

"There is no such thing at this state of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There's not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper. And any of you, who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions, would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allow my honest opinions to appear in one issue of the paper, before twenty-four hours, my occupation would be gone.

The business of journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon(1) , and to sell its country and its race for its daily bread. You know it and I know it. What folly is this toasting to an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of the rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities, and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

2. Edward Bernays, assistant to William Paley founder of CBS, wrote:

Those who manipulate the organized habits and opinions of the masses constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.


3. At the Bilderbergers(2) meeting in Baden-Baden, Germany, 1991, regarding the preparations for the world government, one world dictatorship, David Rockefeller(3) told the following:

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications, whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world, if we had been subjected to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march toward a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."


4. Texe Marrs, in Dark Majesty, p. 248 :

Actually, since the era of Abraham Lincoln the American media have been stooges and foils for the conspirators who make up the Secret Brotherhood. Our press is not only biased, it has become expert in intentionally manipulating and distorting the truth... It is through the press and the media that the lie is penetrating through to the masses.
-------------------------------------------
References

1. From the word mammon, which means possessions, earnings, gains, in other words material value. See Jesus Christ's words regarding mammon (Matthew 6:24, Luke 16). Mammon is used in the sense of money-god.

2. Bilderbergers is a group of influential men. At their meetings decisions are made which affect the infrastructure, economy, etc. of the whole world.

3. Member of the super rich Jewish Rockefeller dynasty, whose control over the USA is greater than the President's.

Artillery said,
2 o 3 started claiming the next target was blogs talking negative about the organization. Including Neowin.

Negativity? This article isn't talking anything about Annon as being Negative. It's clearly explaining why they're not following up on attacks because of problems with domains and IRC. Learn to read.

mquiny said,

Negativity? This article isn't talking anything about Annon as being Negative. It's clearly explaining why they're not following up on attacks because of problems with domains and IRC. Learn to read.


The only problem with these 10000 kids in the irc is that they've confused the purpose of anon operations. They think that they can bring down everyone where in fact operation payback was set only for wikileaks.

viper151 said,

The only problem with these 10000 kids in the irc is that they've confused the purpose of anon operations. They think that they can bring down everyone where in fact operation payback was set only for wikileaks.

+1

It's the teenage ways I guess. Always wanting in something big, and go doing stupid and reckless things to make them seen invincible on the internet.

Artillery said,
2 o 3 started claiming the next target was blogs talking negative about the organization. Including Neowin.

Oh the irony. Anon fights for the right of free speech by......shutting down other people that speak against them....

Bmag said,

Oh the irony. Anon fights for the right of free speech by......shutting down other people that speak against them....


A few dissidents discussed it but it isn't happening (:

"splinter groups" "commanders" "mutiny by some participants" "and a vote was taken to select that as the next target" " coordinate a fresh attack at the moment"

This sounds more like a war to me than a simple "payback" operation via DDOS.

+2 for the effort though. But they're now chasing their own tails trying to keep everything. All that for about a days worth of downtime. Do people like this not have: Jobs? A girlfriend? Or a social life? Rather than waste their days trying to bring sites down. Just so they can strengthen the target and put them on alert.

mquiny said,
"splinter groups" "commanders" "mutiny by some participants" "and a vote was taken to select that as the next target" " coordinate a fresh attack at the moment"

This sounds more like a war to me than a simple "payback" operation via DDOS.

+2 for the effort though. But they're now chasing their own tails trying to keep everything. All that for about a days worth of downtime. Do people like this not have: Jobs? A girlfriend? Or a social life? Rather than waste their days trying to bring sites down. Just so they can strengthen the target and put them on alert.

As specified above most of them are between 17-23 but only because the elders (including me that I'm above 23) do care only about themselfs.
Check out what happens in britain at the moment. Who else cares and protests except from the students? No one. Why? Because they've understood that in this world in order to survive you have to speak only for yourself and not care what others do. But that's how they've trained us from school and not how we're supposed to be.
Did you know that a bunch of kids protesting in Greece in 1974 disordered the Greek dictatory that was running these days?

viper151 said,

As specified above most of them are between 17-23 but only because the elders (including me that I'm above 23) do care only about themselfs.
Check out what happens in britain at the moment. Who else cares and protests except from the students? No one. Why? Because they've understood that in this world in order to survive you have to speak only for yourself and not care what others do. But that's how they've trained us from school and not how we're supposed to be.
Did you know that a bunch of kids protesting in Greece in 1974 disordered the Greek dictatory that was running these days?

I still find it ultimately pointless for something that can be fixed and stopped within a few hours and then prevented, if it was for a few weeks, then fair enough, it's a job well done.

mquiny said,

I still find it ultimately pointless for something that can be fixed and stopped within a few hours and then prevented, if it was for a few weeks, then fair enough, it's a job well done.


I will totaly agree with you!!! But if was for a few weeks that would make it a criminal action in uk and US as DDOS are illegal

viper151 said,

I will totaly agree with you!!! But if was for a few weeks that would make it a criminal action in uk and US as DDOS are illegal

+1, I agree, if they could be caught just as easily, then yes, we wouldn't be discussing this.

viper151 said,

As specified above most of them are between 17-23 but only because the elders (including me that I'm above 23) do care only about themselfs.
Check out what happens in britain at the moment. Who else cares and protests except from the students? No one. Why? Because they've understood that in this world in order to survive you have to speak only for yourself and not care what others do. But that's how they've trained us from school and not how we're supposed to be.
Did you know that a bunch of kids protesting in Greece in 1974 disordered the Greek dictatory that was running these days?


Actually, its called growing up and being mature. As adults we know or *ahem* should know better. Exposing illegal activity is one thing but, what Wiki has done is gone above and beyond that by exposing what someone said about another during a "venting" session. Everyone has their secrets. That goes for Govts. as well. Everyone wants their secrets kept so why the hypocrisy by saying only others' secrets should be made known? Be thankful of where we all live now...that allows us to say this stuff people say. Live in China....not a chance. Don't cry about free speech until you have to deal with what the Chinese people have to deal with on a daily basis.

Anon is a bunch of immature kids trying to get attention. While they may be getting their attention, all they're really doing is ****ing a lot of people off on both ends. ****ing off businesses for one and other everyday people that would be affected by such activity. To what end? All this trouble and crap for a having a few sites down for a few hours. Its nothing more then a bunch of misfits trying rage against the machine...that will ultimately fail.
Regardless if one feels certain info should be public, if its classified and released without authority, that is illegal and just because one feels it should be released does NOT mean that they have the authority to release it.
Wiki crossed the line exposing classified info they did NOT have the authority to release. Its illegal no matter how you try to look at it. Just because Wiki felt it should be released (as they do with everything...not caring about consequences) doesn't make it right for them to do it. In regards to Anon, there are proper ways to protest...they sure as hell aren't doing it.

Steve B said,

Actually, its called growing up and being mature. As adults we know or *ahem* should know better. Exposing illegal activity is one thing but, what Wiki has done is gone above and beyond that by exposing what someone said about another during a "venting" session. Everyone has their secrets. That goes for Govts. as well. Everyone wants their secrets kept so why the hypocrisy by saying only others' secrets should be made known? Be thankful of where we all live now...that allows us to say this stuff people say. Live in China....not a chance. Don't cry about free speech until you have to deal with what the Chinese people have to deal with on a daily basis.

Anon is a bunch of immature kids trying to get attention. While they may be getting their attention, all they're really doing is ****ing a lot of people off on both ends. ****ing off businesses for one and other everyday people that would be affected by such activity. To what end? All this trouble and crap for a having a few sites down for a few hours. Its nothing more then a bunch of misfits trying rage against the machine...that will ultimately fail.
Regardless if one feels certain info should be public, if its classified and released without authority, that is illegal and just because one feels it should be released does NOT mean that they have the authority to release it.
Wiki crossed the line exposing classified info they did NOT have the authority to release. Its illegal no matter how you try to look at it. Just because Wiki felt it should be released (as they do with everything...not caring about consequences) doesn't make it right for them to do it. In regards to Anon, there are proper ways to protest...they sure as hell aren't doing it.


If it was illegal US goverment would have already found a way to bring Assagne to US. They can't even find a law in order to bring him back.
So first of all as we're not sure about mobile's radiation yet, we're not sure either for wikileaks legitimately. And wikileaks by the way is just like every newspaper. They just publish things that they've been given in a grey folder.
I will agree 100% with you that we should be thankful to be alive and not living in China. But the point of wikileaks is not just expose US but make every govnt understand that US is playing them just to facilitate their needs.
Well US is not even 10% of the worlds population and yet they are ruling (no offence here) I'm good with that but before wikileaks I thought (mistakenly and driven by UK's media) that US was helping Iran people in 2003 whereas in fact was killing innocent reporters

Steve B said,

Actually, its called growing up and being mature. As adults we know or *ahem* should know better. Exposing illegal activity is one thing but, what Wiki has done is gone above and beyond that by exposing what someone said about another during a "venting" session. Everyone has their secrets. That goes for Govts. as well. Everyone wants their secrets kept so why the hypocrisy by saying only others' secrets should be made known? Be thankful of where we all live now...that allows us to say this stuff people say. Live in China....not a chance. Don't cry about free speech until you have to deal with what the Chinese people have to deal with on a daily basis.

Anon is a bunch of immature kids trying to get attention. While they may be getting their attention, all they're really doing is ****ing a lot of people off on both ends. ****ing off businesses for one and other everyday people that would be affected by such activity. To what end? All this trouble and crap for a having a few sites down for a few hours. Its nothing more then a bunch of misfits trying rage against the machine...that will ultimately fail.
Regardless if one feels certain info should be public, if its classified and released without authority, that is illegal and just because one feels it should be released does NOT mean that they have the authority to release it.
Wiki crossed the line exposing classified info they did NOT have the authority to release. Its illegal no matter how you try to look at it. Just because Wiki felt it should be released (as they do with everything...not caring about consequences) doesn't make it right for them to do it. In regards to Anon, there are proper ways to protest...they sure as hell aren't doing it.

I find this quite childish. If you were maybe wise you would stop using the word illegal. It's just a term used to describe something you could be put into jail for or punished by the government for.

Illegal usually refers to something that is damaging to society as a whole. In this situation I fail to see where society is damaged. The businesses might but come on it's only going to add up to a fraction of their bosses bonuses which I personally think should be illegal but the government doesn't work for the people.

Sometimes you have to do it yourself and it's not an easy process. Stop flinging the world illegal around just because it's an illegal act. Tell me were paypal correct to steal that $100,000 off Wikileaks. Do you have something against Wikileaks ? If so why do you think the government's should be allowed to hide the majority of their decisions and failures ?

Right or wrong not Illegal or Legal, illegal doesn't mean universally wrong.

The Businesses work for the Government and the Government give them legal protection and backing to expand. Remember how there was that small movement about nation wide salary caps ? That's gone people do not have the courage to stand up any more and raise their standards. If people didn't stand up for themselves working class people in the UK still wouldn't be able to vote.

That was 'illegal' back <1900s, because it would cause devastation and global chaos that don't know what their doing.

DDOS can be harmful and I don't like it but in this case their doing some good, using all their tools to get what they want.

Edited by Gaffney, Dec 10 2010, 12:38am :

Gaffney said,

I find this quite childish. If you were maybe wise you would stop using the word illegal. It's just a term used to describe something you could be put into jail for or punished by the government for.

Illegal usually refers to something that is damaging to society as a whole. In this situation I fail to see where society is damaged. The businesses might but come on it's only going to add up to a fraction of their bosses bonuses which I personally think should be illegal but the government doesn't work for the people.

Sometimes you have to do it yourself and it's not an easy process. Stop flinging the world illegal around just because it's an illegal act. Tell me were paypal correct to steal that $100,000 off Wikileaks. Do you have something against Wikileaks ? If so why do you think the government's should be allowed to hide the majority of their decisions and failures ?

Right or wrong not Illegal or Legal, illegal doesn't mean universally wrong.

The Businesses work for the Government and the Government give them legal protection and backing to expand. Remember how there was that small movement about nation wide salary caps ? That's gone people do not have the courage to stand up any more and raise their standards. If people didn't stand up for themselves working class people in the UK still wouldn't be able to vote.

That was 'illegal' back <1900s, because it would cause devastation and global chaos that don't know what their doing.

DDOS can be harmful and I don't like it but in this case their doing some good, using all their tools to get what they want.


Lmao...you find it childish....talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Just because the State Dept. hasn't brought formal charges yet doesn't mean its NOT illegal. You just can't get passed the fact that the so called underdogs in this are doing something wrong. "stop flinging the world illegal around just because its an illegal act"....need I say more?

viper151 said,

If it was illegal US goverment would have already found a way to bring Assagne to US. They can't even find a law in order to bring him back.
So first of all as we're not sure about mobile's radiation yet, we're not sure either for wikileaks legitimately. And wikileaks by the way is just like every newspaper. They just publish things that they've been given in a grey folder.
I will agree 100% with you that we should be thankful to be alive and not living in China. But the point of wikileaks is not just expose US but make every govnt understand that US is playing them just to facilitate their needs.
Well US is not even 10% of the worlds population and yet they are ruling (no offence here) I'm good with that but before wikileaks I thought (mistakenly and driven by UK's media) that US was helping Iran people in 2003 whereas in fact was killing innocent reporters

They do have a law, it is receiving stolen property. Problem with that is if the US uses that then they admit the documents are authentic. Right now no one can peeve the authenticity. The best approach is to let it go which they are doing. If you notice no other government is raising any kind of fuss, why you ask, because ALL governments play each other at the benefit of themselves. If you think otherwise you are a fool. The US got caught but all the other governments will circle the wagons because they know they are just as guilty and may be next so if they support each other then it becomes a non issue.

No surprise there. When you live in your moms basement and the only social life you have is World of Warcraft how can you expect to actually function as a big boy, go back to the basement and continue living an un productive life.

"Furious Amazon users have accused the online retail giant of double standards after it was found to be selling the WikiLeaks embassy cables - just days it cut off the whistleblowing website from its hosting servers.'

"Charles Arthur, the Guardian's technology editor, points out that while MasterCard and Visa have cut WikiLeaks off you can still use those cards to donate to overtly racist organisations such as the Knights Party, which is supported by the Ku Klux Klan. The Ku Klux Klan website takes Visa and MasterCard donations for users willing to state that they are ‘white and not of racially mixed descent. I am not married to a non-white. I do not date non-whites nor do I have non-white dependents."

... I could copy paste more but i strongly believe that you are either blind or dumb... or maybe both.

I think you guys are all missing the point. Look in a few history books on, for instance, the civil rights movement and you will see that people - ordinary, often not not very well organised ordinary people - made things change by, amongst other things, non violent direct action.

Someone up there drew an analogy with people parking up in gas stations to mount a blockade - well, that has actually happened when people have mounted protests against gas prices. Did that work? possibly not but it does constitute legitimate protest.

In the UK at the moment there is a group operating physical DDOS attacks on retail outlets where the proprietors are accused of tax evasion (check out @ukuncut on twitter). Sit ins are organised to jam up retail outlets and hurt these guys where they will really feel it - in the pocket.

I think the parallel is clear and the action is legitimate.

What we see emerging with the wikileaks story is the forces of the establishment rallying together to squeeze the life out of something that threatens it. This has happened for hundreds of years, only difference now is you can see it. As has been widely reported, Mastercard and Visa have been quite happily taking donations for the Klu Klux Klan. There is absolutely no law that stops them processing for Wikileaks.

So have they been leaned on, or have they just fallen in to line? Arguably it doesn't actually matter. They have cast their vote firmly against the principle of free speech (no matter how unpleasant it might be) and this time we can all see it.

If a bunch of 17 - 23 year olds "organise" to protest about it we should all applaud it - the rights we have were fought for and won by people like this. They were not handed out willingly, and they will be eroded, bit by bit, unless people hang on to them.

Why do anon wear masks and hide their identities? To avoid prosecution / persecution.
The same reason that Visa / Amazon / etc have distanced themselves from wikileaks.
When anon has the balls to risk prosecution for what's "right", I'll applaud them for attacking companies that don't.

Freedom of expression is priceless. For everything else there's mastercard.

P.S. Anon isn't just a bunch of 17-23 yo's and they don't just protest either...

hmm, didnt see anon defending countless others that have had similar problems like wikileaks, but hey... wikileaks is a mediahype, so anon just goes with the flow.
these companies have followed their policies for many, many years now.
Anon never did anything... and now, all of a sudden when it happends to some mediahyped website, anon stands up for what they 'believe' in?

all sounds like a big joke to me.

Seems you are all missing the point. With all the publicity, there are now thousands of new /bots. If you ask me, mission accomplished.

I said the same thing this morning while covering my live feed, they simply lost it. After troubles taking down PayPal, everyone was rushing around trying to figure something out, and even though the masses wanted to attack other websites, they still kept up their "efforts" to attack PayPal, unsuccessfully.

From this experience, it is quite clear that Anon is not a "general consensus" nor "everyone and everywhere." It is just a group of sheep following the command of a few people who, the leaders, won't listen to the masses.

Alan Cone said,
I said the same thing this morning while covering my live feed, they simply lost it. After troubles taking down PayPal, everyone was rushing around trying to figure something out, and even though the masses wanted to attack other websites, they still kept up their "efforts" to attack PayPal, unsuccessfully.

From this experience, it is quite clear that Anon is not a "general consensus" nor "everyone and everywhere." It is just a group of sheep following the command of a few people who, the leaders, won't listen to the masses.


The paypal attack was successful but they attacked api.paypal not paypal.com so many people thought it was failing which caused internal confusion. And as I've stated above they have leaders but they are ad-hoc and per operation.

omnicoder said,

The paypal attack was successful but they attacked api.paypal not paypal.com so many people thought it was failing which caused internal confusion. And as I've stated above they have leaders but they are ad-hoc and per operation.

They first were attacking paypal.com, then for a while went after http://www.paypal.com port 443. A decision came later to switch everyone to simply attack api.paypal.com and "unify" the group again, however this didn't ever amount to too much and PayPal's functions could still be used.

Alan Cone said,

They first were attacking paypal.com, then for a while went after http://www.paypal.com port 443. A decision came later to switch everyone to simply attack api.paypal.com and "unify" the group again, however this didn't ever amount to too much and PayPal's functions could still be used.

Yes, unfortunately, only a few of us were attacking the ssl server through which most transactions are processed: https://www.paypal.com.

The fact that any of you honestly think Anonymous is any more organized than a stand-alone complex and has any kind of agenda other than entertaining themselves by doing something that APPEARS to have a goal is amusing.

I was suprised noone attacked loic Anon server yesterday since it was whole 1 IP to take down in Russia Their IRC network would probably need bit more work since its spread over couple of servers, but yesterday they could stop attacks pretty fast if they would want to.

wow, nice comments people over something that doesnt even matter.

It was a matter of time before the chaos ended...or predictions of it ending. Time to move on.

techbeck said,
wow, nice comments people over something that doesnt even matter.

It was a matter of time before the chaos ended...or predictions of it ending. Time to move on.

Tell that to the article writers of Neowin. This is like there 5-6th article about wikileaks.

How stupid do you all look. This isn't some American hit show, its a bunch of people that have nothing better to do. If they want to do that then thats fine, delusions of grandeur and all when it comes to some of the replies here, when you all sit round arguing about them then its just pathetic.

Orange Battery said,
How stupid do you all look. This isn't some American hit show, its a bunch of people that have nothing better to do. If they want to do that then thats fine, delusions of grandeur and all when it comes to some of the replies here, when you all sit round arguing about them then its just pathetic.

Then why do people argue about pointless ongoing wars, oil crisis, government secrets and whatnot. Because it bloody matters. But I guess to you it's all the same then. If they want to do that, let them do that.

Andre said,

Then why do people argue about pointless ongoing wars, oil crisis, government secrets and whatnot. Because it bloody matters. But I guess to you it's all the same then. If they want to do that, let them do that.

Those are adults arguing and acting like kids and more so that they want more land and your resources to better their own country. Most of the kids that join the cause are ill informed and are in it for the lulz. They just lack the parenting that we normal neowinians well most neowinians get. /s

SoCalRox said,
What a bunch of childish whiners... throwing a temper tantrum because they didn't get their way.

You still don't get it, do you?

Andre said,

You still don't get it, do you?

Erm ... yes ... he did get it. The basis of this is that they didn't like something, so the acted like cyber terrorists. Instead of acting like adults, sensibly going to the courts etc with some substance based argument about why they feel WikiLeaks should be supported. People have won against the government before in court you know. But instead, they enlisted a bunch of kids who don't know right from wrong and ran a tool that they had no idea of the consequences. Luckily, there barely were any. Anon failed. They failed because this is going to be yesterdays news extremely soon. And they wont have changed anything.

Spirit Dave said,

Erm ... yes ... he did get it. The basis of this is that they didn't like something, so the acted like cyber terrorists. Instead of acting like adults, sensibly going to the courts etc with some substance based argument about why they feel WikiLeaks should be supported. People have won against the government before in court you know. But instead, they enlisted a bunch of kids who don't know right from wrong and ran a tool that they had no idea of the consequences. Luckily, there barely were any. Anon failed. They failed because this is going to be yesterdays news extremely soon. And they wont have changed anything.


What and how exactly do you expect them to 'go to courts' to solve this?

Spirit Dave said,

Erm ... yes ... he did get it. The basis of this is that they didn't like something, so the acted like cyber terrorists. Instead of acting like adults, sensibly going to the courts etc with some substance based argument about why they feel WikiLeaks should be supported. People have won against the government before in court you know. But instead, they enlisted a bunch of kids who don't know right from wrong and ran a tool that they had no idea of the consequences. Luckily, there barely were any. Anon failed. They failed because this is going to be yesterdays news extremely soon. And they wont have changed anything.


Yeah, sure. Go tell that to the governments (most likely US only) that have been behind the original attacks on wikileaks including forcing several organization worldwide (who wish you to believe they are acting on their own terms) to block wikileaks in any possible way.

Andre said,

You still don't get it, do you?

Some people are either ignorant or just don't care if corrupt institutions (governments) take away their liberties in the name of security. Such people deserve to be afforded neither liberty nor security.

Andre said,

Yeah, sure. Go tell that to the governments (most likely US only) that have been behind the original attacks on wikileaks including forcing several organization worldwide (who wish you to believe they are acting on their own terms) to block wikileaks in any possible way.

There are tons of other governments who would sooner be behind the attacks...
china doesnt like the documents either, they have been (attempting) to ban it from the chinese internet ever since the releases. and we all know china loves to hack everything in the world...and with half a billion internet connections in one country, they could much easier pull it off..

i really doubt the US government wants to risk burning its hands on DDoSing wikileaks.
its also not part of the US usual arsenal to fight websites

Pah! Fools, you think Anon is falling apart? Anon exists since the dawn of times, ever since they splintered from the Illuminati.

Fools!

rpsgc said,
Pah! Fools, you think Anon is falling apart? Anon exists since the dawn of times, ever since they splintered from the Illuminati.

Fools!


Bilderberg group, not illuminati

Webworldx said,
omnicoder - ad-hoc PR man for Anon, or just ex-scene member that loves defending them?

It's called having a difference of opinion. Google is your friend

Webworldx said,
omnicoder - ad-hoc PR man for Anon, or just ex-scene member that loves defending them?

I'm not involved with them at all but if people are going to hit them with arguments that rely on invalid points then I have no issue with defending them.

Webworldx said,
omnicoder - ad-hoc PR man for Anon, or just ex-scene member that loves defending them?

They are fighting for your freedoms while the US Gov is trying to curtail them. Shouldn't you be thanking them?

Flawed said,

They are fighting for your freedoms while the US Gov is trying to curtail them. Shouldn't you be thanking them?

Whose freedom? Your freedom? I doubt they could give a rats ass about you. Anyone whose been around long enough with Anon knows what they do and why they do it and freedom isn't even close to being one of them even if just a little.

Morisato said,

Whose freedom? Your freedom? I doubt they could give a rats ass about you. Anyone whose been around long enough with Anon knows what they do and why they do it and freedom isn't even close to being one of them even if just a little.

hah, someone who sees through the propaganda and excuses..
anon just want chaos and fun, thats it. i used to hang out at anon before the whole scientology bull**** and all, used to be fun, not to many people and such, lots of actual hackers and decent ppl... then it got overrun by losers from all over the world, which makes anon today.
lots of the original anon crowd has long left the chaos thats called anon anyways. they never where for rights, freedoms and what not, they where there for fun, exploiting the internet where they saw fit, and as a small group as they where, it was fun, not damaging and not an annoyance to the uninvolved.

now its just a tumor on the the internets anus

Anon fights another anon one day, next day they fight along. It's not a some organized gang that can fall apart.

Ha! That was quick. Guess they couldn't take the heat or did momma ground them and take away their computers?

Pity.

COKid said,
Ha! That was quick. Guess they couldn't take the heat or did momma ground them and take away their computers?

Pity.


May want to take a look at all the above comments proving your post ill-informed and ignorant before you continue with that attitude. (eg. Mine, Tom's, Delta's, Mike's etc)

omnicoder said,

May want to take a look at all the above comments proving your post ill-informed and ignorant before you continue with that attitude. (eg. Mine, Tom's, Delta's, Mike's etc)

Gotta quote this for the win. Read up boyo.

omnicoder said,

May want to take a look at all the above comments proving your post ill-informed and ignorant before you continue with that attitude. (eg. Mine, Tom's, Delta's, Mike's etc)

huh what, read what a bunch of propaganda spammers like yourself keep repeating?

Tom W said,
Umm this is exactly how they always operate. No-one is in charge and they fight to get causes heard and agreed upon.

Right now they are all tugging in different directions, though.

Owen W said,

Right now they are all tugging in different directions, though.

And your point is? That's how they operate in-between missions, they had the same anarchy during the time between the attack on DRM sites and this.

omnicoder said,

And your point is? That's how they operate in-between missions, they had the same anarchy during the time between the attack on DRM sites and this.

If you read what they're saying though, the majority don't think the attack is over yet.

omnicoder said,

And your point is? That's how they operate in-between missions, they had the same anarchy during the time between the attack on DRM sites and this.

I'm just going to point out, this is why we have governments . Because the fact is humanity isn't intelligent enough to self manage it self and not cause anarchy.

Tom W said,
Umm this is exactly how they always operate. they fight to get causes heard and agreed upon.

Precisely. Some people might be unaware that these companies are acting on behalf of the US gov. These actions raise awareness amongst the public and keep the corporations in check.

Owen W said,

Right now they are all tugging in different directions, though.

you haven't done your basic research on the history of anon have you?

Tom W said,
Umm this is exactly how they always operate. No-one is in charge and they fight to get causes heard and agreed upon.

they fight for fun and chaos, the reason is just an excuse

Good! Markets are going to get back to normal. People panic over. A few people in some IT places got some overtime in. Everything is good yay! What a pointless waste of time and energy though.

ChuckFinley said,
Good! Markets are going to get back to normal. People panic over. A few people in some IT places got some overtime in. Everything is good yay! What a pointless waste of time and energy though.

that we're talking about it here on Neowin shows that it wasn't a completely pointless waste of time and energy.

ZAnwar said,
LOL! The group falls apart trying to take others down!

If you knew more about what Anon is you'd understand there's nothing to fall apart in the first place. I'm glad to see you feel joy in seeing what you believe to be the destruction of something you obviously don't understand though (:

omnicoder said,

If you knew more about what Anon is you'd understand there's nothing to fall apart in the first place. I'm glad to see you feel joy in seeing what you believe to be the destruction of something you obviously don't understand though (:

OK, you are seriously mistaken. There is structure. If you were in the discussions you would see this.

Owen W said,

OK, you are seriously mistaken. There is structure. If you were in the discussions you would see this.

There is only structure while they are in an operation and all agree on what to do.

omnicoder said,

There is only structure while they are in an operation and all agree on what to do.

how can a group of 15 year olds with an attitude problem have any proper form of struction is beyond me. 99% are mindless bozo's, skiddies and natural ******s with no life or time on their hands. wait, on the internet, there many thousands of us, we geeky losers can be a 'protest' group, who annoy the innocent and polute the internet.....
anon is nothing new, its just more of a mediawhore... groups like anon have excisted since the dawn of the internet, they are nothing new, only change is, mediawhoring and average age/iq lowered

I thought that was the whole idea of Anonymous. Nobody's in charge so large action only takes place when enough people are willing to participate.

Mike Brown said,
I thought that was the whole idea of Anonymous. Nobody's in charge so large action only takes place when enough people are willing to participate.

Two entire channels voted this afternoon to switch the target to Mastercard, but nothing happened as those with power on IRC were absent, and they control a vast part of the Anon army

DaveLegg said,

Two entire channels voted this afternoon to switch the target to Mastercard, but nothing happened as those with power on IRC were absent, and they control a vast part of the Anon army


The leaders are ad-hoc on a per incident basis, the wikileaks defense is over for now so those leaders are just normal members again.

Mike Brown said,
I thought that was the whole idea of Anonymous. Nobody's in charge so large action only takes place when enough people are willing to participate.

It sounds nice that the whole place is run democratically and 'Anonymous' is made up of so many like minded individuals; the reality is it's going to be a few wolf and a lot of sheep.

MS Pandya said,

It sounds nice that the whole place is run democratically and 'Anonymous' is made up of so many like minded individuals; the reality is it's going to be a few wolf and a lot of sheep.


It's not democratic and doesn't need to be because it only operates effectively when everyone agrees. The nature of it as an organization ensures that.

Mike Brown said,
I thought that was the whole idea of Anonymous. Nobody's in charge so large action only takes place when enough people are willing to participate.

Well, that's not strictly true. Supporters, who activate the Hive Mind on the LOIC, are controlled by the current attack target information on the irc channel. I was part of the Paypal DDOS yesterday, and it was mostly done through the hive. And it was extremely effective.

I support freedom of speech and the exposure of corruption. These companies were acting at the behest of the US Gov to drain wikileak's funding. And they were sent a definitive message yesterday by the collective masses - If you support and do the bidding of corrupt, oppressive, and censoring governments, you will suffer the consequences!

MS Pandya said,

It sounds nice that the whole place is run democratically and 'Anonymous' is made up of so many like minded individuals; the reality is it's going to be a few wolf and a lot of sheep.

Kinda like the US government and all the people that are defending them?

omnicoder said,

It's not democratic and doesn't need to be because it only operates effectively when everyone agrees. The nature of it as an organization ensures that.

you contradicted yourself in just 1 sentence.. nicely done.

Flawed said,

Well, that's not strictly true. Supporters, who activate the Hive Mind on the LOIC, are controlled by the current attack target information on the irc channel. I was part of the Paypal DDOS yesterday, and it was mostly done through the hive. And it was extremely effective.

I support freedom of speech and the exposure of corruption. These companies were acting at the behest of the US Gov to drain wikileak's funding. And they were sent a definitive message yesterday by the collective masses - If you support and do the bidding of corrupt, oppressive, and censoring governments, you will suffer the consequences!


or paypal is a company that doesnt want to get into **** because of its customers and takes the easy way out. the money is not stolen and will be refunded in/within 180 days after closing the account.
but hey, keep believing they are WROANG and attempt to make innocent people suffer, not only people, many companies run using paypal... but hey, your opinion > anyone elses....
Welcome back on earth Stalin, its been to long.

The writer made it fairly obvious he knows nothing about how anon operates. (no offense) There are no set leaders. Anyone who wants to can and will take the position of 'leader' at any given time and there is no way to send them into any more chaos than they already are and always are. Anon isn't going anywhere. They simply don't feel the need to continue as they've made their point.

omnicoder said,
The writer made it fairly obvious he knows nothing about how anon operates. (no offense) There are no set leaders. Anyone who wants to can and will take the position of 'leader' at any given time and there is no way to send them into any more chaos than they already are and always are. Anon isn't going anywhere. They simply don't feel the need to continue as they've made their point.

oh and you do ?

omnicoder said,
The writer made it fairly obvious he knows nothing about how anon operates. (no offense) There are no set leaders. Anyone who wants to can and will take the position of 'leader' at any given time and there is no way to send them into any more chaos than they already are and always are. Anon isn't going anywhere. They simply don't feel the need to continue as they've made their point.

What point? Visa, MasterCard, Paypal, all have returned to normal business. Alls they've shown is that they're immature and can't hold any type of structure together. Just as the many groups like this in years past they will go back to their little blip in cyber space. They got their media attention (as I was corrected in the other news article) and that's it for their 15 minutes of fame. They'll have a Wikipedia article for a bit and be subject to the archive of the news outlets.

They changed nothing, created nothing, and didn't help the matter at all. A lot of people who supported Wikileaks previously (even though this doesn't specifically relate to Jullian) are starting to get tired of the acts of how they operate.

So good job Anon in doing absolutely nothing other than creating a little annoyance.

In order to issue commands to the 'troops', the 'commander' needs to have certain permissions on IRC, and these permissions are held and controlled by a small number of people. If you spend a small amount of time on their IRC server, this will become clear to you.

Edrick Smith said,

What point? Visa, MasterCard, Paypal, all have returned to normal business. Alls they've shown is that they're immature and can't hold any type of structure together. Just as the many groups like this in years past they will go back to their little blip in cyber space. They got their media attention (as I was corrected in the other news article) and that's it for their 15 minutes of fame. They'll have a Wikipedia article for a bit and be subject to the archive of the news outlets.

They changed nothing, created nothing, and didn't help the matter at all. A lot of people who supported Wikileaks previously (even though this doesn't specifically relate to Jullian) are starting to get tired of the acts of how they operate.

So good job Anon in doing absolutely nothing other than creating a little annoyance.


They made paypal refund wikileak's stolen $100,000 and made it obvious to any other companies that would pull support from wikileaks that they would be attacked. They made their point and succeeding in doing what they were trying to do. You're trying to judge them on their failure to accomplish something they weren't trying to.

DaveLegg said,
In order to issue commands to the 'troops', the 'commander' needs to have certain permissions on IRC, and these permissions are held and controlled by a small number of people. If you spend a small amount of time on their IRC server, this will become clear to you.

Yep, someone's gotta run the joint!

omnicoder said,

They made paypal refund wikileak's stolen $100,000 and made it obvious to any other companies that would pull support from wikileaks that they would be attacked. They made their point and succeeding in doing what they were trying to do. You're trying to judge them on their failure to accomplish something they weren't trying to.

Riiight... and they said it was because of that...?

Owen W said,

Riiight... and they said it was because of that...?

You're right I suppose they just suddenly decided to completely change their minds and go back on their respected policy of not returning money from frozen accounts conveniently while they were being DDOS'd.

omnicoder said,

They made paypal refund wikileak's stolen $100,000 and made it obvious to any other companies that would pull support from wikileaks that they would be attacked. They made their point and succeeding in doing what they were trying to do. You're trying to judge them on their failure to accomplish something they weren't trying to.

You're hilarious. Get over yourself, dude.

Script kiddies who think they are important can be entertaining though. And it's not like what anyone here says is going to change his mind that anon was the reason.''No is anyone going to be able to convince him that he's being tricked by the "leaders" of anon, and yes, while there may not appear to be any and it's all anarchist heaven, trust me there is.They're just smarter than the average anon script kiddie.

omnicoder said,

You're right I suppose they just suddenly decided to completely change their minds and go back on their respected policy of not returning money from frozen accounts conveniently while they were being DDOS'd.

-facepalm-

They released the funds before the attacks happened. Then that lovely anon community still put out the attack.

omnicoder said,
Anon isn't going anywhere. They simply don't feel the need to continue as they've made their point.

And tommorow or the next day, no one will give a s**t, so they failed. Fact.

And I for one laugh at them

Edrick Smith said,

-facepalm-

They released the funds before the attacks happened. Then that lovely anon community still put out the attack.


They attacked Paypal, paypal released, *then* they attacked paypal again.

HawkMan said,
Script kiddies who think they are important can be entertaining though. And it's not like what anyone here says is going to change his mind that anon was the reason.''No is anyone going to be able to convince him that he's being tricked by the "leaders" of anon, and yes, while there may not appear to be any and it's all anarchist heaven, trust me there is.They're just smarter than the average anon script kiddie.

I know there are people who try to lead it and that anon hasn't really done much. They don't have much power and I recognize that and I don't have any affiliation with them, but I still feel it proper to argue for them when people attack them on points that are invalid. We obviously have different opinions about this issue and the wikileaks issue in general so there is no point in arguing.

Edrick Smith said,

What point? Visa, MasterCard, Paypal, all have returned to normal business. Alls they've shown is that they're immature and can't hold any type of structure together. Just as the many groups like this in years past they will go back to their little blip in cyber space. They got their media attention (as I was corrected in the other news article) and that's it for their 15 minutes of fame. They'll have a Wikipedia article for a bit and be subject to the archive of the news outlets.

They changed nothing, created nothing, and didn't help the matter at all. A lot of people who supported Wikileaks previously (even though this doesn't specifically relate to Jullian) are starting to get tired of the acts of how they operate.

So good job Anon in doing absolutely nothing other than creating a little annoyance.

Ok tell that to the board of directors of Mastercard that saw their stock price going down

And anyway, who told you that operation payback is for actually harming the companies? It is but in a moral way. To make their website impossible to reach and take their attention. Operation Payback has no illusions. Visa Mastercard etc can't declare bankruptcy only from a ddos attack

I guess that all of you come from U.S. right? And half of you watch fox news or cnn. They both are covering the truth. Not behind Operation payback but behind wikileaks. Check what guardian has to say about wikileaks and compare it with the limited infos (and confusing) you get from cnn and foxnews. It's just annoying how US government can manipulate you. Here in Europe wikileaks story is a legend.
And if you think operation payback is dead well you're fooled again. Someone was just ddosing the irc server from where operation payback starts and no one could reach. As for the reader: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LEADER IN anonops.

viper151 said,
I guess that all of you come from U.S. right? And half of you watch fox news or cnn. They both are covering the truth. Not behind Operation payback but behind wikileaks. Check what guardian has to say about wikileaks and compare it with the limited infos (and confusing) you get from cnn and foxnews. It's just annoying how US government can manipulate you. Here in Europe wikileaks story is a legend.
And if you think operation payback is dead well you're fooled again. Someone was just ddosing the irc server from where operation payback starts and no one could reach. As for the reader: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LEADER IN anonops.

The only reason you guys consider them a hero is cause they've yet to release boat loads of classified information about your governments. But just wait your day will come

Edrick Smith said,

The only reason you guys consider them a hero is cause they've yet to release boat loads of classified information about your governments. But just wait your day will come


Well my country doesn't call herself king of the World or making a chaos in Iran in order to facilitate their OWN needs. I like American people. I don't like though the senate. I think Obama and Bush are only puppets of the senate.

viper151 said,

Well my country doesn't call herself king of the World or making a chaos in Iran in order to facilitate their OWN needs. I like American people. I don't like though the senate. I think Obama and Bush are only puppets of the senate.

Our government just like any other has flaws, but we sure don't call our selves king of the girl.

Edrick Smith said,

Our government just like any other has flaws, but we sure don't call our selves king of the girl.


As a king of the girl no You were thinking of a girl?? Good for you. Better than here

As a world power though yes and your army's acts is showing exactly that. What the wikileaks showed (actually confirmed because it was already known) is that you were trying to influence every middle east country(almost). Well many of the countries don't like that and are doing illegal things in order to give you a hit unfortunately (see 9/11). But that's the only way they can do as the anonymous are doing at the moment. They can't go the legal way because you will deny everything. Believe it or not you have the worlds best army at the moment and chinese do not event want to engage with you (good for them). But the thing is that you are taking advantage of this fact and that is what hurts some.

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing or a good thing. I may be the only one that sees it this way but still I think I have made my point clear.
Every country has flaws (see Greece & Russias - corruption, UK's unstable gov etc etc etc) but at least those are inside flaws.d

Edrick Smith said,

What point? Visa, MasterCard, Paypal, all have returned to normal business. Alls they've shown is that they're immature and can't hold any type of structure together. Just as the many groups like this in years past they will go back to their little blip in cyber space. They got their media attention (as I was corrected in the other news article) and that's it for their 15 minutes of fame. They'll have a Wikipedia article for a bit and be subject to the archive of the news outlets.

They changed nothing, created nothing, and didn't help the matter at all. A lot of people who supported Wikileaks previously (even though this doesn't specifically relate to Jullian) are starting to get tired of the acts of how they operate.

So good job Anon in doing absolutely nothing other than creating a little annoyance.


I am happy that upon complaining about what someone with good intentions did, you actually showed us a better way to deal with this situation!

Except you didn't.

Edrick Smith said,

Our government just like any other has flaws, but we sure don't call our selves king of the girl.

I've lost count of the number of times I've heard the American president referred to ( usually by Americans ) as "the leader of the free world."

If they want that title they need to hold worldwide democratic elections for the position.

viper151 said,

Well my country doesn't call herself king of the World or making a chaos in Iran in order to facilitate their OWN needs. I like American people. I don't like though the senate. I think Obama and Bush are only puppets of the senate.

Kind of obvious the president are just figureheads to an all more powerful group behind the scenes making all the decisions. Was already made point when anyone in the senate can filibuster a bill made to help the American people. Now the Dems made a deal with the Repubs on extending the Bush tax cuts further for the rich and having people spend more instead of less. They've even had to halt 100 dollar bills being printed cause of suicidal money issues and now they will find the faulty ones and burn it in front of a bush of poor people. What I want leaked is the reason why China is still lending US money when they already owe them in the trillions. The US dollar in the next 10-20 years will be worth nil for times to come the way American keeps running the things they are running right now.

Victor V. said,

I am happy that upon complaining about what someone with good intentions did, you actually showed us a better way to deal with this situation!

Except you didn't.

Good intentions? You mean cause issues for everyone else in the world that uses PayPal, Visa, Mastercard? Right

Edrick Smith said,

Our government just like any other has flaws, but we sure don't call our selves king of the girl.

Think of the term "the greatest country in the world" and think which country's citizens that claim comes from most often.

Subject Delta said,

Think of the term "the greatest country in the world" and think which country's citizens that claim comes from most often.

Hey well since you're full of such intelligence, I wonder who the hell coined that phrase? Could it be all you immigrants (my great grandparents included) who came over to the US throughout the 1700, 1800, 1900, and even still the currently century? No it couldn't be could it? So before you want to attack a country maybe you should check who coined the phrase.

Subject Delta said,

Think of the term "the greatest country in the world" and think which country's citizens that claim comes from most often.

But we are.

Subject Delta said,

Think of the term "the greatest country in the world" and think which country's citizens that claim comes from most often.

I think It is all the immigrants from crap countries (such as yours) that wanted better life and find it in America. They coined it. Can't argue with the truth.

viper151 said,
I guess that all of you come from U.S. right? And half of you watch fox news or cnn. They both are covering the truth. Not behind Operation payback but behind wikileaks. Check what guardian has to say about wikileaks and compare it with the limited infos (and confusing) you get from cnn and foxnews. It's just annoying how US government can manipulate you. Here in Europe wikileaks story is a legend.
And if you think operation payback is dead well you're fooled again. Someone was just ddosing the irc server from where operation payback starts and no one could reach. As for the reader: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LEADER IN anonops.

I'm from the US and spent a total of 10 minutes watching CNN, Id rather spend that itme and more sitting in the multiple IRC channels and watch it first hand.

Edrick Smith said,
The only reason you guys consider them a hero is cause they've yet to release boat loads of classified information about your governments. But just wait your day will come
But of course, Wikileaks has no American supporters. Nope.

DaveLegg said,
In order to issue commands to the 'troops', the 'commander' needs to have certain permissions on IRC, and these permissions are held and controlled by a small number of people. If you spend a small amount of time on their IRC server, this will become clear to you.
as if anon only uses a single irc server. roflz.

The US has always been a police force for the world and I, for one, support that. Though you can argue just cause for the current operations, the large majority of military/government efforts affecting areas abroad are warranted not by the US, but by the countries reaching out to the US. Can you imagine the uproar if the US didn't get involved? I suppose the US could have stayed out of every world affair and tended its own business, but then all of Europe would be speaking German.

omnicoder said,

You're right I suppose they just suddenly decided to completely change their minds and go back on their respected policy of not returning money from frozen accounts conveniently while they were being DDOS'd.

money is returned from frozen accounts, it can just take upto 180 days, as stated in their policy you guys disagree on.
so anything paypal was doing, was not illegal by US, european and probably even chinese law.

troGGers said,
The US has always been a police force for the world and I, for one, support that. Though you can argue just cause for the current operations, the large majority of military/government efforts affecting areas abroad are warranted not by the US, but by the countries reaching out to the US. Can you imagine the uproar if the US didn't get involved? I suppose the US could have stayed out of every world affair and tended its own business, but then all of Europe would be speaking German.

without the US, there wouldnt be a western Japan either, or a western South korea.. the only nations in asia besides china that are doing it properly in any form.
without the US, the middle-east would still be entirely in the dark ages aswell.

the US cares for its allies, unlike many other nations. there are no 2 seperate nations like Europe and the US, that are so bonded together in their alliance.

Edrick Smith said,

Our government just like any other has flaws, but we sure don't call our selves king of the girl.

Americans sure think they are the kings of the world.

nub said,

Americans sure think they are the kings of the world.


rather them then china, if your allied to the US they are a good bunch

go western world! \o/

jakem1 said,
Because protest in support of human rights is a bad thing.

No, because DDOSsing is illegal. Supporting a cause no matter how just via illegal methods, is still illegal. Suprise!

MS Pandya said,

No, because DDOSsing is illegal. Supporting a cause no matter how just via illegal methods, is still illegal. Suprise!


Illegal != morally wrong
See also: Founding of the United States

omnicoder said,

Illegal != morally wrong
See also: Founding of the United States

Oh whatever, they're attacking basically every large site there is now. Amazon.com? Twitter? Anybody who gets in their way.

omnicoder said,

Illegal != morally wrong
But DDOSing is morally wrong. How would you feel if you had to go get some gas and all the gas stations in your area were full of parked cars making it impossible to fill your car up with gas? Would you find that morally wrong for people to park their cars there? DDOSing works in a similar manner, denying EVERYONE access to the services being DDOSed because a select minority disagree with their actions.

Just because "illegal != morally wrong" doesn't mean that statement is true in this specific scenario.

That being said, good, they are not only doing something illegal, they are also disrupting innocent people from accessing services they may need to access.

Nightwind Hawk said,

Oh whatever, they're attacking basically every large site there is now. Amazon.com? Twitter? Anybody who gets in their way.

Good for them. They can take down the entire intertubes for all I care. We really could use a spring cleaning anyway.

Nagisan said,
That being said, good, they are not only doing something illegal, they are also disrupting innocent people from accessing services they may need to access.

The same could be said for those they are attacking, who prevented innocent people from viewing leaked documents that were relevant to them (i.e. the documents that potentially affected them in some way). It can be argued that the Anon are simply responding to the attacks made by the corporations.

That said, I don't support what the anonymous did. They're like the people that get violent during protests, and ruin their credibility, but, it seems to have gotten results, so I'm sort of conflicted morally.

MS Pandya said,

No, because DDOSsing is illegal. Supporting a cause no matter how just via illegal methods, is still illegal. Suprise!

Is it more illegal than shutting down all possible ways to donate to Wikileaks ? Because that was a major motivation for their attacks. I see nothing wrong with using an illegal method to fight back illegal actions. They didn't start the whole thing. Wikileaks is doing nothing illegal. Publishing information is not against the law. Shutting all possible ways to support any kind and form of press that reveals vital information to the public is lame, illegal, and unethical. Anon means justify the purpose.

Majesticmerc said,

The same could be said for those they are attacking, who prevented innocent people from viewing leaked documents that were relevant to them (i.e. the documents that potentially affected them in some way). It can be argued that the Anon are simply responding to the attacks made by the corporations.

Amazon, MasterCard and Visa did NOTHING to prevent people from viewing any leaked documents, they simply stopped people from donating to the source.

=HyperViper= said,
Is it more illegal than shutting down all possible ways to donate to Wikileaks ?
You mean "Is it more illegal than a corporation preventing people from donating to specific sources?", yes, it is, last I checked corporations can make up their own mind on how they do business, which is not illegal at all. Illegal action is more illegal than legal action.

Edited by Nagisan, Dec 9 2010, 10:55pm :

Nightwind Hawk said,

Oh whatever, they're attacking basically every large site there is now. Amazon.com? Twitter? Anybody who gets in their way.


Great. We need to implement IPv6 anyway... far.. Can't network administrators use this "downtime" to their advantage to roll out IPv6?...

Nagisan said,
But DDOSing is morally wrong. How would you feel if you had to go get some gas and all the gas stations in your area were full of parked cars making it impossible to fill your car up with gas? Would you find that morally wrong for people to park their cars there? DDOSing works in a similar manner, denying EVERYONE access to the services being DDOSed because a select minority disagree with their actions.

Just because "illegal != morally wrong" doesn't mean that statement is true in this specific scenario.

That being said, good, they are not only doing something illegal, they are also disrupting innocent people from accessing services they may need to access.


Why can't people just understand that this is what a protest it? There are no Gandhis here. Throughout the history, 99% of the movements that succeeded somehow affected the society.

This is the equivalent of activists stopping the traffic to protest.

bluarash said,

Good for them. They can take down the entire intertubes for all I care. We really could use a spring cleaning anyway.

Yeah attack Steam.com, gamespot.com, and any related game selling site as well. That'll keep those violent kids at bay for awhile. In anycase where it is morally wrong or not is to the ones opinion. Frankly these aren't parked cars as these attacks cease after a few days. This was to show I paint from anon more or less the backing up of anon for wikileaks. Assange has already turned himself so doing anything further won't really change the situation he's already in. People call him a terrorist but terrorist keep running from being captured not turning himself in upon police request. Sex charge allegations that suddenly arise is another lameduck ploy to plant misleading evidence against him as well.

P.S. I'm surprised neowin writers 'hangout' or rather lurk on there irc channels for this type of news.

MS Pandya said,

No, because DDOSsing is illegal. Supporting a cause no matter how just via illegal methods, is still illegal. Suprise!


You should tell the US government that.

PhillAholic said,

You should tell the US government that.

HHAA so true, you can tell America is a christian country...they only stick to their beliefs as long as its convenient

Nightwind Hawk said,
Oh whatever, they're attacking basically every large site there is now. Amazon.com? Twitter? Anybody who gets in their way.
Well everybody has a breaking point that's when they cannot take it anymore. Once they hit the breaking point, the only remaining way is to protest by terrorism. The same thing applies to people in the middle east who are basically protesting against the wrong doings against them. (However, there are some who do it anyway for fun.)

Non-violence is only for the hopeful and willful, like Gandhi. When things go against your "hopes", things take a bad direction.

Neoauld said,
HHAA so true, you can tell America is a christian country...they only stick to their beliefs as long as its convenient
At the core, everybody is the same. It doesn't have to be related to Christianity.


MS Pandya said,
No, because DDOSsing is illegal. Supporting a cause no matter how just via illegal methods, is still illegal. Suprise!

Laws and rules are created by those who are in power so they can shepherd their sheep. Defining morality based on those rules is incorrect because the shepherds themselves are not moral by the same laws and rules.

Edited by Jebadiah, Dec 10 2010, 5:49am :

tylershaw said,
Human rights? I don't think so.

they would attack anyone for any reason, never forget that.. they arent fighting for rights, wikileaks or anything else... they are doing it because for them its fun to do. they just need an excuse.
supporting anonymous? Grow up kid.
i certainly wont untill anonymous grows up, and considering its a chaotic bunch of 15 year olds with an attitude problem, that'll never happen