Anonymous Xbox engineer explains DRM and Microsoft's Xbox One intentions

Get out your salt shakers but an anonymous engineer on the Xbox One team has taken to Pastebin to help clear up a few misunderstandings about Xbox One's DRM. In short, Microsoft wanted to bring the concept of Steam to the Xbox.

The DRM around the Xbox One has certainly caused a bit of controversy since its announcement but if the Pastebin post is to be believed, Microsoft actually has gamers' best interests at heart. The post talks about Steam's beginnings and how many didn't actually like the service at first, adding that it wasn't until Steam started offering insane deals on games that consumers adopted the platform.

Microsoft is apparently trying to bring that same model to the console with the Xbox One that is dramatically different to what the consumer is accustomed too. It's a lofty bet, but one that Microsoft is willing to take to help spur on digital distribution of console games. Posted below is the entire post:

 >The thing is we suck at telling the story. The whole point of the DRM switch from disc based to cloud based is to kill disc swapping, scratched discs, bringing discs to friends house, trade-ins for shit value with nothign going back to developers, and high game costs. If you want games cheaper then 59.99, you have to limit used games somehow. Steam's model requires a limited used game model.

 
    >The thing is, the DRM is really really similar to steam... You can login anywhere and play your games, anyone in your house can play with the family xbox. The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)
 
    >It's a long tail strategy, just like steam. Steam had it's growing pains at the beginning with all it's drm shit as well. [...] For digital downloads steam had no real competition at the time, they were competing against boxed sales. At the time people were pretty irate about steam, (on 4chan too...) It was only once they had a digital marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted shit.
 
    >Think about it, on steam you get a game for the true cost of the game, 5$-30$. On a console you have to pay for that PLUS any additional licenses for when you sell / trade / borrow / etc. If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more. [...] If we say "Hey publishers, you limit game to 39.99, we ensure every license transfer you get 10$, gamestop gets 20$" that is a decent model... Microsoft gets a license fee on first and subsequent game purchases, compared to just first now? That's a revenue increase.
 
    >Competition is the best man, it helps drive both to new heights. See technology from the Cold War. If we had no USSR, we'd be way worse off today. TLDR: Bring it on Steam :)
 
    2/4
 
    >Yeah we passed that around the office at Xbox. Most of us were like "Well played Sony, Well played". That being said they are just riding the hype train of ZOMG THEY ARE TRYING TO FUCK US FOR NO REASON. Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back... [...] just simpleminded people not seeing the bigger picture. Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded.
 
    >Everyone and their mother complains about how gamestop fucks them on their trade ins, getting 5$ for their used games. We come in trying to find a way to take money out of gamestop, and put some in developers and get you possibly cheaper games and everyone bitches at MS. Well, if you want the @#$@ing from Gamestop, go play PS4.
 
    >The goal is to move to digital downloads, but Gamestop, Walmart, Target, Amazon are KIND OF FUCKING ENTRENCHED in the industry. They have a lot of power, and the shift has to be gradual. Long term goal is steam for consoles. [...] If you always want to stay with what you have, then keep current consoles, or a PS4. We're TRYING to move the industry forwards towards digital distribution... it'sa bumpy road
 
    >Publishers have enourmous power. Microsoft is trying to balance between consumer delight, and publisher wishes. If we cave to far in either direction you have a non-starting product. WiiU goes too far to consumer, you have no 3rd party support to shake a stick at. PS4 is status-quo. XB1 is trying to push some things, at the expense of others. We have a vision, we'll see if it works in the coming years
 
    >Living room transformation. We want to own the living room. Every living room TV with an XBox on input one. It's the thing that gives the signal to your TV, everything is secondary. The future, where games, TV, internet telephony, all that shit happens magically on some huge ass screen with hand / voice gestures... That's our goal.
 
 
    3/4
 
    >Google TV + PS4 + Minority report level gestures, that combined with a sick second screen experience (which is really hot for TV, I know I know.. tv tv tv tv tv... but it's fucking sick when you have it). Games will be the same, there are more exclusives to MS then PS atm, and Kinect 2 makes Kinect 1 look like a childs toy.
 
    >By default it's on, listening for "Xbox On". You can turn it off tho, and turn the console like OFF off. OFF off is required for Germany / other countries that require it (no vampire appliances) [...] It has to be plugged in for the console to post. You can turn off everything it does from the settings. Think of it like airplane mode for the iPhone. You can't just unplug the cellular radio, but you can turn it off.
 
    >Instead of 10mins, is 24hrs for your console, and 1 or 2 at a friends house. Really the majority of people have a speck of internet at least once a day. And if you don't. Don't buy an Xbox 1. Just like if you didn't have a broadband connection don't get Live, and if you don't have an HDTV the 360 isn't that great for you either. New tech, new req. This allows us to do cool shit when we can assume things like you have a kinect, you have internet, etc.
 
    >Current plan is basically you're fucked after 24 hours. Yeah... I know. Kind of sucks. I believe they will probably revist the time period and / or find a diff way to "call in" to ensure you haven't sold your license to gamestop or something... but there is no plan YET. I'm hoping the change it, but I don't work on that so I don't have much influence there /sigh
 
    >If the power goes out you ain't playing shit. I'm assuming you mean the internet goes out but you have power for TV and Xbox. Yes, You're fucked for single player games. Again, that's the PoR (Plan of record), but I expect it to change after the e3 clusterfuck
 
    >What fee? There is no fee to play your games at your friends house. Never has, never will. Even x360 digital downloads could do that.
 
 
    4/4
 
    >The cloud capabilities is the shit they like the most. We basically made a huge cloud compute shit and made it free. What people are doing with it is kind of cool. THe original intention was to get all the Multiplayer servers not requiring 3rd party costs (Like EA shutting down game servers to cut costs), as well as taking all the games that servers hosted by the clients (Halo, etc), and have all that compute done in the cloud allowing more CPU cycles for gameplay. That will really expand what developers can do. Anything that doesn't need per frame calculation and can handle 100ms delays can be shifted to the cloud. That's huge.
 
    >SmartGlass + IE is going to be pretty freaking sweet. 1 finger cursor, 2 finger direct manip. Basically if you think of a laptop trackpad where your phone/ slate is the trackpad and the monitor is your TV... it's that. The tech is there, just needs to be applied. There is some really cool shit going on with Petra + controllers that pairs people with controllers. So if person with controller two trades controlers with controller 1, their profiles magically switch. It's sick. What does this matter? Now if you lean left/right it knows which person is leaning, even if 4 people are all int he same room. It's awesome.
 
    >New service using Azure for cloud compute. Allows developers to not use clients for hosting multiplayer servers, or other tasks that do not require per frame calcuations. It's pretty sweet.
 
    >Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4.
 
    This was all from the Microsoft engineer that was on /b/ last night.
 
    >It's not worth my time to prove it, or risk my Job. I work in Studio A, 40th ave in Redmond, Wa. The thai place in the studio cafeteria has double punch wednesdays. Go ahead and call them and verify if you want.
Source: PasteBin
Report a problem with article
Previous Story

First Impressions: Nokia Lumia 925

Next Story

Manufacturers reportedly ignoring Windows Phone due to OS fees... and Nokia

196 Comments

Commenting is disabled on this article.

Okay, maybe I'm late to the party. I'm NOT a techie guy. I own the inevitable tech trappings- I have a 360, an HDTV with a blu-ray player, a laptop and an iPhone. I don't have these things because I love tech stuff. I don't. If it was feasible, I'd still have an NES instead of 360, and a home phone instead of cell. (Gotta admit I'd keep the HDTV though.) But I digress.
I will never- EVER- under any circumstances buy an Xbox One so long as that Big Brothery Kinect comes with it. I find this concept utterly sickening, that something so sensitive is just being accepted into homes (although ultimately time will tell on that one). I'm sure MS won't be monitoring me actively, but anything these days can be hacked. You don't think that all the hackers out there heard about this and DIDN'T start plotting on how to spy through the Kinect? That was an absolute deal-breaker for me. I don't care about the DRM issue (I will always buy physical copies of media if there's any option, I don't want 'cloud' based anything), used games or whether a headset is included. I don't want an ultra-sensitive camera and mic in my house. I'm a very private person and the Xbox One will never be welcome in my house as long as Kinect is required to even be plugged in. I don't care if you can shut it off or not, not in my house.
While I'm not a big gamer or techie dude at all, I do buy quite a few games and play them. I play the CoD games online, was a big Left 4 Dead fan and a few others (Super Mario Bros is still the best game of all time!) but I will absolutely not buy this system. And I won't switch to PS4 either, the Playstation stuff always comes off, to me at least, as a purely second-rate system and I have no interest in it whatsoever. I will keep playing my 360 as long as it's supported, which, knowing Microsoft and their "I don't care, you will do what we want" style, probably will be phased out within a year in an attempt to force everyone onto the Xbone. If it comes to that, then it's time to grow up and stop playing.
I know every single person on here knows more about this than I do, I'm not saying I have any kind of an inside line on what's right, or that I know anything at all about what I'm saying. I've read a lot of stuff about how MS is shooting themselves in the foot with this, combined with Windows 8, this is simply MY reason that I will never buy this system. This is my first blog post... ever... but I thought since this is such a divisive issue, I'd at least chip in my two cents somewhere.

Its funny how microsoft believes this CLOUD process will be seemless when right now on my 100megabit connection it takes for ever to download a game, or just updates that are multi gigabyte from their servers take a ton of time.

gigaom.com/2012/10/01/data-caps-chart/

How am I just going to be able to go to a friends house login in and play my games when clearly the Xbox One games will be way bigger than the maximum game size of whats currently stored on Xbox 360 game dvd's. So when im at my friends house and I'm just like hold on let me log in so you can check out this new game real quick haha. Thats really like an hour just to download the game on a 30megabit connection (at his house)that downloads right around 3Megabyte a sec.

MY particular ISP doesnt have a hard cap limit for business data subscribers but for regular consumers they do. This shall be interesting indeed.

What about all the people who are still stuck with DSL connections in USA, or ADSL, and ISDN connections in other countries. Are they going to be downloading 10GB-25GB games with those connections?

(Almost 80 Million Xbox's Sold. Supposedly 48 million xbox live accounts.
And Im willing to bet like me There are multiple xbox live accounts on
some of those systems. So how do you believe you are going to succeed
ALIENATING ROUGHLY 50% of the People who currently on your CONSOLE!!!!!!)

PlayStation does BOTH, you can either buy the game on disk, or often, you can download it.

Let it be a choice, do you really want Microsoft making this decision for you? And despite my download of Black Ops 2 being disk-free, I didn't pay one cent less than the disk version. Where are these savings? I didn't see them.

Here's the long and short of how I see things:

This article's logic has several holes in it, but I'll be looking at it from an economic perspective since I think these are the most glaring flaws. The article claims that the Xbox One's goals are to achieve lower prices for games via Digital Distribution being the focal point, which will undermine the PS4 as it attempts to retain the current status quo, eliminating Sony from the market almost entirely if they don't follow suit (And by proxy, Nintendo.)

However, since Sony is Microsoft's biggest competitor in the game's market, if they're eliminated, Microsoft will have attained what's essentially a monopoly over the gaming industry, which won't LOWER prices, but RAISE prices over time. You want to know why Steam offers completely absurd sales? Because Sony and Microsoft are both still a thing; There's competition. Why would you buy a game through Steam if it were the same price for the PS3/360, and you could play it at the highest settings as opposed to being limited by your computer's specs?

This would obviously harm consumers, which would lead to fewer and fewer people buying games because of the price increase, which would harm the producers of games, as well. Of course, they could just raise prices back up to what they are now, but there wouldn't be a reason to since they could profit more at, say, $70/game or more. Think supply and demand, people.

Another thing worthy of pointing out is Sony and Microsoft can lower their prices at literally any time. Look at the E3 sale Sony has going on right now. With PS+, you're getting a ridiculous amount off (And even if you don't, expect around 50%). There's no need for all the hoops the Xbox One is jumping through if it were for the same thing.

My conclusion is that, while convincing if you just read it without critically analyzing it, there are holes in the arguments presented that need to be considered before coming to your own conclusions about whether or not A. This article is legitimate and this is actually Microsoft's standpoint and B. It's actually the long-term effects of what they're doing.

See, the thing is, Sony is setting up a similar service for digital distribution AND not putting restrictions on their physical media OR requiring an internet connection to play said physical media. So the moral of the story is, you can have the best of both worlds. Microsoft needs to get their head out of their ass and realize that most people in the US don't have internet, or have a ****ty 3Mbps pipe, like me. As slow as my internet is, I'd rather drive to the store and buy a physical copy of the game.

It's amazing how uneducated people are about the IT field and technology. It's laughable really, but I'm guessing most are under 25 so they're clueless. I see a lot posts by straight up cheapos trying to cheat the system and ultimately the home console's future. I don't think many have a clue that SONY is absolutely strapped for cash and that their whole ecosystem of products are failing to Samsung, Apple, and LG. Check out their sales last quarter.. absolutely terrible. This is their last shot, and they choose the old model of gaming which is sad. Folks get real, Microsoft has 20x the cashflow on hand than Sony.. they are going to eat those guys for lunch and some when the smoke clears. Just watch by Fall 2014.

There are many misconceptions about the M$ DRM policy. Folks need to get their facts straight. It has been stated that it's up to the publishers (you know.. the people that make the games!) on Xbox One & PS4 for DRM. Yes folks.. that means Sony's non-1st party games (basically any game you want to play because Sony has very few exclusives) can see the same DRM protections on PS4.

Folks.. we have no clue what the actual publishers like EA/Ubisoft/etc will do by next year. You can bet the house that they will step up to get their fill of the cash flow with DRM. The days of used games are numbered. They want their cut no matter what. Sony is just playing it off right now to look acceptable because their lack of exclusive titles. Almost every game they showed at E3 will be on Xbox One and even PC for the most part. They have Killzone and super awesome games like Knack hah.. yeah.. "Knack"... Knack is no Halo/Gears/Fable etc.

If I can go to my buddies house across the country and not have to lag my 50+ games around, I think that's a win-win situation. All I have to do on Xbox One is sign in and BAM.. total access. Honestly, people in the USA without internet shouldn't be buying a new console anyways.

People complaining about a $100 difference for a console that is supposed to have a 8+yr life.. I feel for you. The $100 extra is accounted for the Kinect 2, Sony does not include that.

That's like comparing the PSmove to the Kinect.. not even in the same ballpark. M$ and the cable companies are soon to be buddies.. folks will see the bigger picture come next year.

Xbox One will be a true innovation, while Sony went with the previous generations business model and are making a rebranded PS3 with beefier specs.

About digital world how Microsoft and publishers want so much move forward to digital world! Okay, then you need to stop f****ng us, customers! Make it easier for us!

1. Throw away your stupid REGION LOCKED stuff! Make it region free!

2. Make digital content cheaper than boxed content!

If you do both of that. You will be step closer to digital revolution! But until you make your cointent region locked and asking for digital content 15-30% higher price, we will not support you!

The thing is with what this guy is saying is that I have zero trust that MS and EA and the rest of their ilk will translate the higher profits of heavy DRM into customer savings. While MS can point at Steam and their great value sales and say, 'we could do this as well!!!', does anyone *really* believe they actually will and not just grab the cash?

All I am really seeing here, if we take this at face value, is an effort by MS to feed of the trust that Steam has *earned* in an effort to spin their own desire to have total control over the market/ content ghetto they want to force their customer into using exclusively.

I trust Steam because of their past actions. I don't trust MS and EA for exactly the same reasons.

The thing I hate here is MONEY BACK TO DEVELOPERS ON USED GAME SALES? SInce when is ANYONE other than the owner of the game entitled to any money? This language and model is as socialistic as nazi germany. Developers Make their money when they sell the game. Once the game is owned (physical medium) should the owner want to sell it - they are entitled to what they can get from it. This is a clear Grab at gamestops business model but what about my MODEL of sales as a consumer. Say I don;t want to sell to gamestop? Say I want to sell to my buddy and the game is 4 days old. I tell him $40 bux .. saves him 20 from buying it new. If he wants the game that bad he will go out and buy it new too, if he has to wait for a DEAL to get it then he wasn't really gonna go buy it at $60 bux was he? Now WHy should I have to give any of the $40 to the developer. I already gave $60 to buy the game. Why should my buyer have to give anyone any more money, he has a legit copy of the game that he PAID FOR? (paid me for!). Now he plays the game and hates it. Decides to craigslist it and some local kid wants it for $30 bux. He agrees and sells it. We again, obviously the game is week old, have another buyer who was never gonna buy it new anyways, but now, only because he feels the game is worth $30 to him will he buy it from a guy on craigslist. SO NOW, Already I bought it and sold it and someone else hated it and wants to sell it, why should he have to give money to anyone else? This is how the physical game used slaes model works. The developer or M$ did not loose out in $120 in sales. Those TWO GUYS were never gonna buy it at $60 bux. They either would have never bought it or waited for the store to put it on sale or use a coupon or something. People only spend retail price when they feel retail price is worth it for what they want. If you have to HAVE IT NOW you will spend retail price. If you are thrifty you buy used or wait for sale.

I really am sick of this message of developers and publishers deserve a piece of second hand sales. They are the only people on the earth that feel this way. I have no problem with them collecting a ONLINE MONTHLY FEE should the game require it (like WOW or FF 11 ect..) But if the game pops in a game console and plays (even online as long as you have a gold live subscription) - There should be no PENALTY for being thrifty, or cheap.

Car dealers and makers don't get a piece of used car sales, PC manufactures don't get a piece of used PC sales (even M$ don't get a piece of that Xfered Windows license on that used PC should the owner wish to include it). Music companies don't get a piece of used CD, Record or tape sales? Farming equipment manufactures don't get a piece when a farmer sells his tractor, field plow, silo, grain belt, or any other piece of farming equipment. WHAT MAKES GAME DEVELOPERS AND PUBLISHER SO ****EN SPECIAL THAT THEY FEEL THAT THEY DESERVE A SINGLE RED CENT WHEN A GAME OWNER SELLS HIS PHYSICAL DISC TO SOMEONE ELSE???? I am tired of this crap. We need to push back. They need to cut the crap and be put in their place. Either raise prices of the game if you want more money or make a better game so more people buy it. Don't try and tell me that used game sales hurt the game industry. USED ANYTHING sales don't hurt other industries.. so why only them??

Edited by Quickdraw Mods, Jun 15 2013, 8:42am :

So what we are saying here, that an engineer was able to explain the DRM system and not the Head of the Xbox One team? Not buying it. If Microsoft really wanted to, they would have made it just like steam or probably better. I love Microsoft, I had their console before I bought anything Sony since they first came out, but I cant with this bait strategy. Anonymous source? CMON.

This has got to be one of the silliest articles I've read in a long time. This is way worse than all the rumours that were posted in the past. Some random online post by some anonymous dude and then taken as from an Xbox engineer who can't even spell or write properly - WTF.

Sorry but this is giving me mixed signals, if the one is designed to stop disc swapping, sharing and used games so that the developers earn more revenue then why have the inbuilt function to share your entire library to 10 people? and to give one away? the developer is seeing no value in those shares, neither in giving a game away. each game sold has the potential to lose 10 sales and MS continues to earn the revenue on you paying to be able to share those games

Oh and saying that the games will start off at 59.99 and possibly come down cheaper to steam levels is really bad, if I was interested, which I am not, I would just wait till the games are cheap and then buy the system. Wait, so will everyone else. so the games will never really come down in price. is that the strategy? keep the games at 59.99 then blame that drm based pricing model for the lack of uptake and the lack of pricing drops, then ditch that whole system for the "legacy" model and continue to sell them at 59.99? I wouldn't put it past them.

Here in Aus, the MS online store $50 Fable 3 before it went free, $20 brand new in store, Crysis 3 $110, $40 something brand new in store, etc except for rare sales where they become comparable but still a bit dearer and in some cases cheaper like Dark Souls $10.

Also on steam we pay US prices +/- the exchange rate, not what they or the publishers consider we should pay, and MS have been pretty clear that each country pay their own price. This is where MS needs to pay attention to the rest of the world outside of the US and understand that they are just too expensive compared to the competition. If they're going to have steam like restrictions then they need to have steam like prices, not be the dearest.

Also for the first time I'm happy that Aus isn't the dearest country anymore, the poms might now have that honour of $675 US while we're paying $576 US in Aus on todays exchange rates looking on google

Edited by xblOrder, Jun 14 2013, 11:33pm :

edit - firstline reads no fanboy **** here - but look maybe i bloody am - i just dont see what Sonys gonna do better - so please that first paragraph reads bit strongly - was a generalisation so wanted to clear up

I think youre over-reacting no fanboy **** here when i defend MS but theres still a lot of info to come out about sharing games, circle of 10, etc but even when that info comes out i can guarantee youll jump onto something else - so i go back to the question i keep asking

Whats so good about PS4 reveal? What wealth of games will it have? What fresh ideas to their service will close the gap there or unique?

Whenever i see a proud PSN gamer they rarely talk about this current gen. They rarely acknowledge the issues of owning a better spec'd system that was still out performed in all major areas. Games, Online Service, inferior controls, tech issues, gaming catalogue, ported titles, VOIP/party chat, patches and loss of connection, buggy experience and emerging supporting techs/apps services all seem like independant add ons --- the majority who raise these issues are those who have BOTH systems - again this is a common scenario --

I regularly hear "well i got my PS3 for Drake but really it just sits there I spend all my time on 360 for online/multiplayer/social. It seems common that Drake / BluRay player was an attraction but that dual system owners will THEN purchase XBL? To me..when youve got a free subscription system and a paid service what keeps the consumer loyal? I often hear/read I wont lie its not been perfect "but you get what you pay for" which as a satisfied XBL member its hard to appreciate what this means exactly. Ive not heard many PS4 owners really on the front foot ever even when they love it. Its almost sheepish....we XBL members feel justified in paying cos theres no unified voice or anything -- if anything its the other way around "nah frrk that you should come get an xbox and now suddenly the silence has been shattered.

So im assuming this is your first chance in 7-8yrs to get a leg up? in doing so i see negatives being used to justify your affinity not positives? and...well... i dont get it? in business that has a counter productive affect, as a satisfied XBL member and seeing MS vision for this gen i am not yet convinced the negativity is warranted speculating the credibility of this post/article other than its not an official statement.

So Sony fans tell me whats better about PS4? Grunt yeah but quantify that? will BF4 perform better? how so?

Exclusives? like what? do you really think Sony will have the better games cos they have the more powerful machine? how so? hasnt been the case for a long time.....wheres this killer title?

Op System - nope far from

Interconnectivity? nope

Online Service? - has that improved from "you get what you pay for?" if so how?

Voice control/Kinnect/how you interact socially? sharing media? streaming? - isnt PS4 recording like tiny 30sec clip max?

I mean if the answer is it plays games better thats different from it has better games -
in what capacity? single player games? better online exp/multi?

Games will load up faster? but what about when you wanna switch tasks, social interaction?

If the cloud is a myth / not relevant why not? how will the PSN cloud equate?

...i mean seriously these are your hurdles....both systems will deliver but getting caught up in speculative crap is hurting my brain - please someone give it to me straight on the REAL frrkn issues and convince me WHY i shouldnt go xbone cos im missing it? - if by questioning it as i have done helps others think more closely great...but TBH my XBL exp has been great over last 7yrs and im as hardcore with FPS as they come - clan leader - comp gamer - its my major form of interaction/entertainment source and so if you havent had the XBL experience nows the time to question

Correct me if I am wrong but is this not similar to what playstation plus offers now? Monthly discounts on games, free games available monthly, the ability to authorise up to 5 consoles with your account for digital downloads. The only difference I see is playstation still wants to offer choice between disc based media and digital media.

Where it all falls down for me with the steam/xbone comparisons is that most people already have a device they can download steam on. You usually don't have to buy new hardware for it. So if you just want to check it out it's free. And you can delete it if you don't like it. You can just use it to d/l free games or games on sale. With the Xbone you have to pay $500 up front just to have the option of playing the games. Thats before you buy any games. I understand the push for digital media. I don't like it. Firstly I usually forget what I have if I don't have a box for it sitting on my shelf. Secondly I really don't trust all this digital stuff, or saving stuff to the cloud for that matter. Hell just on the Xbox 360 I've had saves go missing when I've put them on the cloud. And if for whatever reason I get banned from xbox live I can never play the games I already bought again. With disc's I can make a new account and play the games again. And as other people have pointed out what happens in 15 or 20 years. I still regularly go back and play my nes, snes, n64, ps1, ps2. What will happen when they stop supporting the system? Or if they get horrible sales and decide to ax the whole game division at Microsoft? I don't like it. They still have a lot of questions to answer.

Honestly I feel that if Microsoft wanted to develop a steam like system, I think it would've been cool for Microsoft to completely drop the Xbox Operating system and just use steam big picture! People have been wanting a "steam box" to play games in their living room for a long time and this would be a great way for microsoft to do it! If they really wanted to implement DRM that wouldn't **** people off, just get rid of the disc entirely! If MS could create a system like steam, or just use steam big picture as an OS, they could knock down game prices so much! Steam already offers discounts that are insane so Microsoft would be able to as well! Also, they would be able to not have a blu ray drive which would probably knock the price down! I believe it's getting to a point where MS and Sony are starting to branch away in terms of the demographics that they are trying to market to with Sony staying with the gamers that want discs and Microsoft trying to push people towards the inevitable future of all digital distribution. We're already there on the PC, we should start getting there with console.

yawn yawn...

unless the launch prices of titles are at 39.99, i doubt xbox1 will survive the internet onslaught; too much is already lost, just like w8 start menu debacle.

so many M$ fanboys defending this mess, seriously M$ screw up here, as much as they want to imitate steam they should ditched physical media all together in the first place, save all this PR bshit, and even save money to not licensing blu ray disc.

The half effort to "push" into digital with physical media its just not good, and it feels more like a downgrade of previous generation policies which its why everyone its going for the ps4.

Region locks here its even more restrictive, i mean how come xone only works on 21 countries, steam work every single place with a pc with internet. This its just wrong DRM go wrong and restriction and annoyance beyond any comprehension

Stop defending this crap, M$ need to rollback if they want to stay competitive

What sort of games? multi player? competitive? or single player?
Of course it will be about the games...MS won this gen...what fresh 1st party title exclusives look better than TITANFALL? MS largest soft dev in world leading OS and massive 1st party investment in leading technologies. Id say the Nth US studios got this covered.

PERFORMANCE - Surely most 3rd party games will be built to spec on all platforms thereby limited to min specs which in MS case is 3GB dedicated to OS - so effectively MS will be lagging pace further into life of this gen but ive just played BF3 for 2yrs on 500mb RAM and the games been great. With a solid polished online VOIP partychat system that PSN still hasnt nailed. So 10times that grunt will surely see us thru a fair stretch without issue. So same/similar performance for 3rd party titles will mean more immersive innovative titles built on XBONE inputs like Dead Rising which uses the Kinnect to track background noises if your making too much noise they stir/be alerted to your presence

You boys gotta come up with more than bashing - so tell me whats so good about PS3.5?

Unless new games are $40/£28 brand new via digital download then this is really bad for people who buy new games. Why would i pay the same price for digital when i can sell the disc copy for only a small loss a few days after release day? Sure this could be great 1yr after the game has been released, i could buy games cheap then but for people buying them on release day this isn't good at all unless the prices are much less than the disc versions.

Also there is no reason to force kinect 2 on us unless you want to spy on us, there is also no reason to require any internet checks until atleast the xbox one is cracked.

Sounds pretty fair to me. I really don't know what everyone is crying about!

The only thing I can see being a problem is the 24 hour check in if someone's internet has gone down. I understand that the developing world might have this problem, but I'm sure thats something that Microsoft could easily address.

how about being IP locked, if you travel to other country and bring your xone and games guess what it wont work if its not inside those 21 countries? its that even right... seriously

Xbox One FOR PUBLISHERS (let publishers play alone there)!
PS4 and WiiU FOR GAMERS!

WE BASICALLY MADE A HUGE CLOUD COMPUTE **** AND MADE IT FREE - Not true AGAIN! Xbox live Free users cannot use cloud services. To use cloud services you need Xbox live Gold!

SMARTGLASS + IE IS GOING TO BE PRETTY FREAKING SWEET. 1 FINGER CURSOR, 2 FINGER DIRECT MANIP - This is pure fanboy text. What's wrong with you? Why the **** I want use over my tablet IE on Xbox One??? I can run any browser on my tablet and use web. I do not need turn on my tablet and Xbox one to use IE over tablet. This fanboy text about using IE on Xbox one makes me ROFL!

HONESTLY IF YOU CARE ABOUT ANYTHING OTHER THAN PURE GAMES AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. IF ALL YOU DO IS PLAY GAMES, AND NOTHING ELSE, PS4. - Actually PS4 have most these things what Xbox one have. Netflix, Sky, BBC, unlimited music, unlimited videos. So If you want mroe than games you still can use PS4. Ooo, right you mean you ****ty ESPN + additional features for ESPN. LMAO! I am living in Europe. So I give no **** about your stupid ESPN functions! You can keep it yourself!

It means if you live in USA and you are big ESPN fan > Xbox One.
If you live outside USA > PS4.

Thank you for explaining it for us! Dear Microsoft you can keep your Xbox One yourself then if you do not like us money! Let's see will you win new generation console war without europe and asia customers money? NO!

Guy you are simple minded and very short sighted!

Im Australian loved my PS1 still think it was best evolution in gaming dimensions due to CDs - but i changed to OGxbox and havent looked back. Id played **** outta single player games during PS1 to end of OGxbox - for me XBL was where its at and has been since - Nth US/Western dev content styles and genres are significantly better than the Asian influenced mega cutscene heavy JRPGs which all get a bit silly ultra combo super happy time

Xboxs online experience will continue to be the pinacle service in console gaming - i have little interest in TV shows/networks - I am more interested in the contact points and technology around the gaming experience such as seemless interaction switching between apps on fly, the kinnect multi directional field array mics and lense technology and an OS redesigned for console and processing tasks from Windows 8 and the multitude of apps and partnerships that MS will bring to the table at launch like Skype integrated to OS/dasboard and partnerships with Twitchtv

These are hardcore gamer affiliations, recording, sharing media streaming with many top competitive players and 3rd party sites and social networks all affiliated with media views and advertising marketing budgets or sponsorship dollars as a presence/captive markets that form a symbiotic relationship - MS with XBONE has just gone here ya go - fascilitate what you bring to the table and share it to the world

An example would be XBOX RECORD --- STOP RECORD --- SHARE TO FACEBOOK ---UPLOAD TO YOUTUBE -- SELECT URL ---- COPY THAT---- GO TO FRIENDSLIST --- SELECT ALL -- GO TO TEXT FIELD --- OPEN QUOTE "HEY SLUTS CHECK OUT THE BIG BRAIN ON BRAD SOME DAMN TASTY BURGER " CLOSE QUOTE --- PASTE THAT --- SEND MESSAGE


Having sold Voice Recognition for 7yrs to corporate clients and disabled users for dictation speech to text and Command and control of OS its a powerful input device that will evolve over the life of this gen that by the end of it gaming will never be the same without it

EVERY 24h AUTHORIZATION - This is because they want check that you are not sold your game to GameStop, and not playing your game offline after that. How we can prevent that every 24h online reuirment. Easypeasy, if you want play offline, force us to use game disc. If we do not want use game disc, force us to online. Simplest and easiest way. And everyone WILL BE HAPPY with that! Gamers who want play offline, gamers who do not want chage disc, developers, publishers and Microsoft. Everyone is HAPPY!

COMPETITION IS THE BEST MAN - I am agree that. But I think that problem is - you dont understand what competition means. Eliminating other choices and competitors is not good for competition. It's bad! What you are suggesting is against competition!

COLD WAR and USSR - After that comparison I am 100% sure, you are american. Arrogant selfish american who does not know anything about COLD WAR and living in USSR, or living in east-europe after USSR collapsed. Your statement is rude, selfish and arrogant.

ZOMG THEY (SONY) ARE TRYING TO **** US FOR NO REASON - What??? Microsoft have tried to eat Sony out from console market, how long now? And what Microsoft doing today? Putting money to publishers mouth. Buying core games from market to prevent Sony get any of them. Pushing Sony to situation when Sony can offer you only some mobile games and some Sony games. And when Microsoft trying to ignore customers and prefers publishers instead of gamers. And when Sony using this wonderful opportunity what Microsoft gave them on golden platter. Then you are accusing that Sony is trying **** Microsoft without reason? Lol You really are blind.

THE GOAL IS TO MOVE TO DIGITAL DOWNLOADS, BUT GAMESTOP, WALMART, TARGET, AMAZON ARE KIND OF ****ING ENTRANCHED IN THE INDUSTRY. - LOL, who have that goal? Microsoft? Did you ask what gamers think about it? Of course not, like always! We do not need your digital downloads goal. Keep it yourself. We prefer boxed games. And world is not ready anyway for digital downloads. Most east-europe ISP's offering internet with bandwith limits (30-50GB). So like you see we can't download many games from your Xbox Live. And even if we can there is another problem speed. How long takes to download one 50GB games. It takes long long time. And when our ISP's is ready to offer betetr speed, then next thing what we have is 4K content on Xbox One. So we are back to beginning, because how big is one 4K movie today? nobody have internet for that.

And when you are accusing amazon and gamestop and others. Please go look in the mirror. Xbox Live digital releases is coming after 3-6 months. And even then prices is much higher than in shop! This is amazon and GameStop fault? Really? If you want push Gamestop and amazon out rom gaming market start offering to us 0day digital releases (yes I know Microsoft promised that it's coming to Xbox One), AND offer us new games with 20-30 euros! if you can do it, you can step another step forward to digital world! If digital games will cost us only 20 euros then we are going to prefer your digital download. But until you are offering games for 60-65 euros , we are going to buy our games from amazon for 45 euros. And then we sell it back, and we can get 30 euros back, add +15 euros and buy new game from amazon.

MICROSOFT IS TRYING TO BALANCE BETWEEN CONSUMER DELIGHT AND PUBLISHER WISHES. - Not true. Most gamers know that today that it is not true. Microsoft ignoring customers. they do not ask what we want. They do not even speak with us, they just ignoring us.

so if some people could digitaly download dont want a middleman and just the game and 1xinstall licence no frills...there it is start downloading at a wholesale price point from our website BANG - should the product be cheaper as the item has no retail staff no packaging wharehousing distribution or retail shelfing and minimal to the customers door sales process?

or should the multi million dollar retail chain who make $100m profits back to the board be able to demand a tarriff placed on that product so as they can still compete

or should they sharpen their pencils?

also i distinctly remember Sony killed Sega Dreamcast with PS1 and when they had 83% to 12% some 110mill units vs MS 12mill- market share domination with PS2 over OGXBOX was it 11 or 12 mths or 2yrs before Rockstar were allowed to launch GTA on xbl - they had more exclusives from being top dog than any time i can remember in gaming and they demanded studios deny content all the time. Last gen MS took initiative first to market superior service and theyll do it again as any experienced gamer knows its about the games/titles and MS are ruthless ...theyll run over ya cat but use the best analysts to work out how

So look i gotta ask what exactly has sony shown at E3 thats nothing more than PS3.5?

Dont get me wrong id love Sony to win... because MS are rogues but even then when youre a rogue who delivers its an acceptable wallop to take cos at least youre up front about it - and whilst youre bringing me the big titles and experiences better than anyone else then its far easier to get behind an original vision/direction that is significantly long sighted in its scope than mistruths and negative press to make a sale - Sonys on catch up and its in their interests to match specs lower price point because they sure as **** not making the deals Kingdom Hearts come on

NOTHING GOING BACK TO DEVELOPERS - And you think that if I can't sell my game back then developers see more money? You do not have any idea about how this business works, right? Let me show you something. I buy new 0day game. I pay for it 50 euros. Then I sell it back later. I get for it 35 euros. Now I need for new game +15 euros and I buy new game. And again. But if you eliminate used games business. Then what happens. After I used my game, it's useless for me now. I can't sell it. It means I do not have that 35 euros. For new game I need now 50 euros not 15 anymore. It means I probably skip new game. So your developer earns less money now. Today I buy 10-20 console games per year, + from Xbox Live arcade games. In future I wull buy max 3-5 games. Because I am looking more carefully what I buy. And I buy only very very very good games which offering me over 100 hours gameplay (single player). So are develoeprs really win more money then? Answer is NO.

IF YOU WANT CHEAPER GAMES, YOU HAVE TO LIMIT USSED GAMES SOMEHOW. STEAM'S MODEL REQUIRES A LIMITED USED GAME MODEL. THINK ABOUT IT, ON STEAM YOU GET A GAME FOR THE TRUE COST OF THE GAME, 5$-30$. - This is biggest LIE ever! And it's very easy to check and show you that this is BS! let's go to http://store.steampowered.com/. Now let's look these supergood prices for us. Total War: Rome II price is €55. OUCH, OUCH, OUCH! Where is your promised $30 (€23) is? Ok, let's take another game - BioShock Infinite, €50. What???? You are telling me that this is good price? This is this cheaper price because Steam using limited used game model? Same time BioShock Infinite Xbox360/PS3 version is in shop 40-45 euros. So if blocking used games is so good and benefits gamers, tell me why Steam selling tht game with higher price than game shops selling xbox 360 and PS3 games? Ok let's take one older game. Let's see Borderlands 2 was good game. Nice Steam offering us special cheaper price, Let's see this price. OUCH, Borderlands 2 price in Steam is €40. Same time game shops selling Borderlands 2 (Xbox360/PS3) for 20-30 euros. Looks like Steam price is 2x higher than console version. So tell me WHERE IS STEAM SUPER CHEAPER AND BETTER PRICES?

And now let's go and look Total War: Rome II prices in Amazon - £30 (€35). Do you see difference? Amazon price is €20 cheaper than Steam offering! So where is this super cheap offers which is good for gamers? Steam selling games with higher price than anyone else. And same thing will happen with Xbox One prices too. They will increase prices, instead of decreasing them.

To prove my point I want to show you another thing from gaming market today. Let's look digital games prices in PSN and Xbox Live and let's compare these prieces with shop prices. PSN and Xbox Live selling games with much higher prices than any high street shop. You can buy same games from shop 10-20 euros cheaper. Why? You cannot sell today your games what you bought from PSN or Xbox Live. Following your logic and your promises, these prices need to be much cheaper than shop prices. But they are higher than shop prices. So when you are going to eliminate pre-owned games, you are eliminating one choice. Less choices means always HIGHER PRICES! History confirms that.

yeah this digital direct on demand model needs to be no frills - to them its nothing and theyre straight to their customer base - if the publisher can sell to a distributor / retailer like amazon $35 then surely steam can sell for $25 ~30 digital direct - im estimating because they are in both markets there would be a recom retail price they had to stick to/hard to change content on fly and on other hand you got amazon running a deal/special based on proj turnover stock but able to market that directly/faster thru their own website than steam - OR - perhaps the dev thru steam has a special coming up on ROME to move sales but has scheduled it for 2weeks and has notified their distributors and amazons reacted to move as many as possible whilst they can - AND/OR the publisher has awesome deal with amazon being #1 most visited e-commerce platform - i say frrk that set me up as youre digital wholesaler you get your margins and i put $2 on each licence of BF4 and make myself a cool $2m in a week for doing **** all - the retailers crack ****s - and get a valuable lesson in tryn to sell $2000000 in 1 sale whilst i make $2000000 in a 1000000 sales - everyones happy except those looking to squeeze me the gamer its 2013 for frrks sake im saying to the devs/publishers ill happily pay what you want me to pay and if you cool with that ill come see you again - NOT what these bozos want to pay - they wanna make $20 off me no probs...fix ya business model and send a topless hotty around to my door otherwise stop frrkn fleecing us its annoying we are an informed market - customer service isnt some noob who says "bf nah havent played it but my housemate says its good..it depends if you like running along way between objectives and ive heard its only 30fps" ..err can i ask what do you play?" oh im like a big big big call of duty fan...im the resident COD expert" ..yeah ok nice...i use to play a bit...like what game mode do you play?" i generally play HQ ...i like to sit on the objective and mow them down with my LMG they have no idea where i am.....thats what i love about hardcore.......(i knew he was a ffrkn noob)

these clowns gotta be ****ting me they try get u to pre order at premium price then wont price match on launch day so i gotta come back in tomorrow where i can return the game and then i can rebuy the game at the matched price.....AND all so they can pay this bozo money whilst his manager telling all the kids Operation Dragon Rising is miliataristically realisticly insane....

its 2013

So pure fanboys name himself now Xbox One engineers? Ok this is not change point that what he wrote here is big BS! And funniest part is that Steam part CAN ANYONE check and verify! So why posting LIES here? Let's see..

DISC SWAPPING - It is really so hard to swap your discs? LOL! Stop being lazy, it's only good to move yourself little bit. So I am not lazy person, so I really do not care about it. You can keep it yourself!

SCRATCHED DISCS - All my discs are perfect. Never scratched any disc. So again I really don't care about it. And persons who like to scratch and broke discs, for them there already exist system for that. It called insurance. You can buy it for 1 euro from every gaming shop. And whn you broke or scratch your disc they change it for new one for you.

YOU DO NOT NEED BRING DISC TO FRIENDS HOUSE ANYMORE - Ohh yes! That's the good point. Let's see how the REAL LIFE looks today. I am going to friend house for one or 2 hours. We want play some my game. My friend have 8MB ethernet. Same time my firend other family members want use internet too. Now we take 40GB game and we start download it. Let's calculate now how long it takes until this game is downloaded. Do we have chance to play that game at all? probably not. So I better take disc with me. Because this digital option is totally useless with that example.

TRADE-IN **** VALUES - What? You call that 50-80% back is **** value? You are most greediest person I have ever seen. And same time strangely stupid. 50-80% is **** value, but 0% is ok for you? You are weirdo! I prefer anytime this 50-80% than 0%.

well MS nailed the games TITANFALL looks like the best new FPS new IP ive seen in ages. Put some money on their shares if ya flush. Will be big...liked their approach to covering cloud thru Forza 5 demo as it was a fresh concept - after that i feel they coulda had some prepared multi-tasking and voice macro instant switching presentation there was a little bit but for like 2mins just fill in get some audience interaction "hands up who has Windows 8? Win 7? has swapped smart phones recently?...ok who has got XP? ...98? i feel ya...i feel ya...feel this...then bang jump thru 5 or 6 voice commands real quickly....then "go to friendslist" send msg "dear joe bloggs youre on now" have the dude walk out with a phone and segway "we listened from blistering multi tasks and killer apps to killer instinct and blistering multis - i mean come on execs know youre frrkn product put on some wow the worlds watchn

Its not what you say, its how you say it.

Prime example, this was announced during e3 which is know for fun and features. They spent their time being hostile and going over the top to explain how they planned for this all to work.

Should of spent the stage time more wisely

AAIIIGGGHT all the negative arseholes who cant read between the lines then please tell me what the hell are all the online checks and control points of the XBONE for? why invest so many years into consoles? at neglect of PCs gaming?

What is their strategy? Greed? Monopolisation?

Controlling the flow and more accurate account of their dollars in the XBL system at multiple levels. This is their service they do not own the internet or they would charge you if they could.
They realised they needed to build their own - if you think about it the XBONE is the machine that fits perfectly with their directives when they first started out. A smart piece of hardware that facilitates multimedia content for entertainment purposes of which they take a share.

Online verification/licenses every 24hrs - anti piracy/ per user licence same as PC Multiplayer games and software for years. Ive sold software for years most of its on trust. PC software piracy is huge because no ones regulating the internet - is too massive a task. So where are the contact pts with games? ACCESS CODES? hasnt worked...

Single player? open to rorts as its offline in design and nature.....where as multi-player online requires verification/access codes. All of which can be pirated but ultimately thru building the processes and verification checks at various stages it is much harder to do so. Having a dedicated service for ease of use, security, monitored traffic, social hubs, and direct to consumer connections the provider ensures standards are met. Maintenance upkeep and so on means a fee/cost can be implemented and end users/consumers can expect a certain level of availability of service/uptime as a result whilst endeavouring to keep more customers engaged satisfied so that more come in the front than leave out the back. This is called customer retention. Its how memberships grow. Steam has nailed that. XBL has nailed that. PSN has the network just not the service fee model. So why would they spend squillions on their service when retention is not an issue - why spend millions developing an OS that would be hard pressed to compete with MS who can take the Windows 8 tech and optimise it for consoles. Whats the point of playing catch up when your business model is free service - at some stage Sony have to stick to their guns or start charging but what room have they got with 1GB to MS 3GB dedicated to OS to provide the checks that MS can or adapt new apps/tech devs multimedia in terms of visual / voice / multi-tasking system processors?

MS is clearly focussed on the experience and keeping those gains. Gaming social networks sharing, smart apps, interconnected is a bigpart of gaming. Youtube, Twitchtv/streaming, recording is as hardcore gaming as you can get.

So why stop there? With a new gen of hardware coming what can we do now that we've not been able to do before, what service/business models are our competitors taking, what are our issues? What tech developments are shaping the future of gaming?

The answers are all there. They all fit with XBONES design and model for this gen. Digital Downloads and the Steambox is a heavy influence that is being used as we speak on XBL 360. Max Payne 3 $5 Alan Wake $5 and moving away from MS pts, free games every month till XBONE launch, free to play titles like World of Tanks. The direction is clear. MS want a small piece of every transaction across muliple forms of entertainment instead of retailers. If the middleman is cut out/phased out eventually and markets more direct then surely this is a win for gamers in lower software costs whilst they get a bigger share of the profits and far better control of the market forces.

Theres a thing called supply and demand and it effects market values. Too much supply not enough demand lowers the price, just as too much demand not enough supply increases price. This is an absolute in economics. So what this man says is true. Microsoft would be silly not to follow the digital model aggressively when the next few years the growth of which will be huge . Apple with iTunes dominated the market decimated by piracy so this is again just a market force in play. Digital transaction and licence agreements per user on verified daily authentification controlled networks reduces piracy you cant have even one trust element in the loop because trust is the very thing breaks down eventually human nature finds a way. Just as sharing a game with a friend is still possible provided you verify the licence. To transfer ownership you will incur a cost, which will filter back to the right players instead of bloody retailers making $100mill profits for doing **** all. Thats our money theyre using.

So you tell me whose DRM model is MS closer to? PC/steam or Sonys? Two have closed down the online codes preferring 1 user licence model that requires verification. PC users hated this but offset by direct to customer/digital licences have warmed to the service tenfold now considering the value propositions and consumer choices available to them.

The other allows 2nd hand licences and sharing of games which in an idylic world is how it should be but the problem is this is still a trust model and not direct to consumer. We will never see lower cost licenses unless the fragile perception of control is accepted as a necessary sacrifice worth making now just as Steam users accept single user licences as is but for some reason PS4 nerdbaiters flip their ****in mind.

Backwards Compatible? please...how many of us are sitting next to a bookshelf full of games we think we will one day dust off but never do and that was 7yr ago haha

"Theres a thing called supply and demand and it effects market values". Well... no!.

In theory yes but the theory does not contemplate the human factor, specifically the greediness. Companies like Apple, Microsoft, Google has a high profit margin not because they are efficient but because they are selling more without decreasing the price.

And about old games, GOG is an example how some people play old games.

Brony said,
"Theres a thing called supply and demand and it effects market values". Well... no!.

In theory yes but the theory does not contemplate the human factor, specifically the greediness. Companies like Apple, Microsoft, Google has a high profit margin not because they are efficient but because they are selling more without decreasing the price.

I did mention human nature - but from a piracy perspective. Theyre charging $600AUD for XBONE now i say nice great price! if they charged more say $800 out of greed whilst demand was high & supply limited THEN my demand would drop off and id wait for a price cut --- as demand slowed theyd lower price to stimulate demand again...exactly same deal with games - ive been gaming 33yrs - i do appreciate stupid greedy stupid execs tryn to add profit lines for example all the old arcade ROMs re-released on XBL arcade vs MS decision to throw $25mill at GTA IV exclusive. Had they spent that money on acquiring the rights to licence/own these classic games outright and have for free as part of the XBL service then youd have attracted a significant retro gamer casual gamer market whilst rewarding your current member base and a significant loss leader differentiation value add between products thereafter that GTA IV exc made pretty much no impact - but what would i know ive 131 IQ yet still get nerdbaited go figure when not one sony fan has actually outlined whats so great about their next gen offering - frrkn wow me sony like MS did with a less grunted better strategized product thatd make me go thru another generation using those 1996 designed frrkn 6 axis controllers

Honestly, if they really wanted to switch people over to cheaper downloads, they could have done that with the same policy they had before, only made games cheaper for download and the same 60 for disc based games. This is why I don't believe the "we are doing it for you" narrative at all.

The cloud... come on... anyone who knows anything about computers knows this is a fantasy. You are only as fast as your weakest link and that is your connection.

As well, microsoft forcing the kinect on me (and I don't want one), thereby making the initial price of the system higher. Doesn't sound like they are too concerned with my money but more concerned with theirs.

This engineer might believe it and be sincere but I don't believe microsoft has nothing but good intentions.

Edited by Mo Jo, Jun 14 2013, 10:33am :

Steam have offline option and you can play any game in offline you dont ever have to sign in ever! They cant compare Steam and with they crap with Steam because Steam is much better than xbox one crap!

I have only 3 things to say.
1) Yes. Microsoft sucks at telling the story. No doubt about this.
2) Games are gonna cost up to 40 instead of over 60? I dont believe this. BUt if they are, they should have started with this since the beginning.
3) LOL @ "with steam you pay closer to the true cost of the game vs a console game price that has to cover the second hand market". Doesn't a considerable chunk of the price of a copy of a game go to licensing (MIcrosoft, Sony, Nintendo)??

another thing. Rather than super hype new technologies ("the cloud" buzzword term) which will surely still cost more money in the real world, a more sensible course of business would be to at least let players host games on their own computers with fast connections, which gets rid of the cost of factoring server packages into game title budgets. But this is outside what Microsoft, Valve, Sony technicians are allowed to consider because "duh, DRM is clearly working, can't you see? MONEY! WE STILL HAVE MONEY THEREFORE IT WORKS!" ..money being the only language executives understand, and these conversations not actually happening but instead being simply implied. Particularly in Asian game studios, so it's actually worse than you or I imagine. How about that.

Honestly. A few hacked game servers isn't something to worry about. Most gamers would contribute unused computer time that already exists. Throwing around fantasy ideas about "the cloud" doesn't make it anymore real, or sensible, each time you do it, and it doesn't make the problem any more new. Devs are still way behind making complex games- AI in games is a joke, so how does the cloud even help when the entire dev process for most studios is already so isolated fundamentally; when engine licensing and so on is so cringeworthily propreitary to the point you can't keep up with the feature set of each popular AAA engine, which are no doubt incredibly complex to get to grips with unlike OSS projects like Bullet, to the point you rely on the dubstep trailers to get some sort of indication of what the game is like. It's such a shambles. It's almost as if there's never been a conscious effort to *effectively* coordinate these complex blind-programming technologies on a broad scale-- except there's actually job titles to that effect in MS, in Sony's rosters no doubt.

There is no way on earth that MS will make games cheaper...
They will be priced the same as currently on the xbox 360 store - and playstation do exactly the same, however you will still be able to buy & trade games freely on the ps4 which should be standard.

I don't want my CONSOLE to become a PC

>"Competition is the best man, it helps drive both to new heights. See technology from the Cold War."

Regurgitating an opinion on piracy/DRM is a nonthought; in fact why do people even make the assumption developers are best positioned to say what is right and what is wrong re. IPs? Don't gamers spend a significant amount of time playing games to the extent gaming communities and modders are better positioned philosophically to say game franchises belong to?

Piracy is magic; fundamentals of the universe such as copying files goes well above and beyond the scope of soccer mom morality- strawman arguments don't work in the same sentence as "the bigger picture", and it's clear who's toeing the line here and why (as in the general context of people who are paid to fill web pages with content for money).

This is another instance of desperate attempts to squeeze as much money as possible out of game sales even at the reduction in quality of the service which is fundamental to the flow of money (and actually akin to the non-logic behind the global economy in general- Lee Camp's MOC shines some light on it: watch?v=Dj0RH7hr1uI), although this time coupled with rumors of the NSA. Which would fit if we consider MS has for a long time been planning to have a monopoly on the home entertainment market (google it? it's been mentioned a few times) ..

(Apple, Google similarly only survive because of having some inane justification for existing as a monopoly over something which very clearly enters what we would, if we were to redesign society, attribute to a fundamental public right of access to technology or public ownership of what is actually merely function itself, and a generic one at that. Authority for the sake of authority; violence for the sake of violence; prosperity for the sake of prosperity is the logic of the animal kingdom and nothing higher.)

“Strange is our situation here upon earth. Each of us comes for a short visit, not knowing why, yet sometimes seeming to a divine purpose. From the standpoint of daily life, however, there is one thing we do know: That we are here for the sake of others...for the countless unknown souls with whose fate we are connected by a bond of sympathy. Many times a day, I realize how much my outer and inner life is built upon the labors of people, both living and dead, and how earnestly I must exert myself in order to give in return as much as I have received and am still receiving.”
― Albert Einstein, Living Philosophies

That of course goes for creativity, products, the piracy that inspires my imagination, as much as anything.

It's simple economics, that economists can't do for some reason (or don't want to, which is also a very big space!)

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
~Adolph Hitler

Games will be cheaper on the xbox one platform? $30 dollar price range? HA! No they won't, publishers will milk every dime they can get, and they're not going to 'vampire' their other platforms. They'll want more money up front and still try to disable the used game market.

I highly doubt this would happen. Especially since physical media will still be available and they're really pushing for digital. You'll more than likely see games being at least 10 cheaper for the digital copy than the physical.

Then why haven't they done this already?

profane said,
I highly doubt this would happen. Especially since physical media will still be available and they're really pushing for digital. You'll more than likely see games being at least 10 cheaper for the digital copy than the physical.

"The thing is we suck at telling the story".
Awwww poor Microsoft can't hire people that can tell the story properly. Everything was miscommunicated and What they really intent to do is to finally liberate the videogame market and bring it to a new era of low prices and awesomeness like steam. They are so kind.

Ha..Ha.. funny dude and yeah Xbox is a POS. This guy is trying to justify why forcing consumer is good thing for any company. What happend to good old days where the common wisdom was you bring your product in market and people adapt or change themselve because they see value in new model or new way of doing something. What happend to giving your consumers an option to than trying to arm twist them because you once had a successful product.

MS has such a huge market share as compared to Apple because of freedom to use Windows on any computer hardware rather than specifically build hardware. If MS believes digital is the way to go then why not give consumer a choice. Bring two diffirent model of Xboner in market. Make one specifically degined for digital and another in more traditional way. Name is as Xboner classic for people who want disc based authentication and let them keep doing the business they have been doing it before.

If consumers see merit in your digital distribution and steam model then they will buy your product and eventually you can determine which model works best, if many people still buying classic version of Xboner then let it be. You provide what your consumer demand for even if it means relying on old way of doing thing rather than trying to force feed your crap because this is what you think is good for your company and consumer in general.

I don't believe for a second that this is about "developers". This is purely to increase their profit margin, and if that happens, they may provide discounts on a few games that are 7-8 months old (that's what Steam does). These kind of deals are already available in stores for disc games.

Besides, as gamers who are paying $499 for a box, we should have the freedom to choose, and not be dictated terms based on the company's preference.

XboxOne will be better than steam. So far my friend and I will only have to pay 1/2 price for games that we want.

MDboyz said,
XboxOne will be better than steam. So far my friend and I will only have to pay 1/2 price for games that we want.

It's amazing that people ignore this - when I'm done with a game i'm usually completely done with it - being able to lend it to a friend so he doesn't have to buy it is pretty cool. Somebody tell Valve please!

MDboyz said,
XboxOne will be better than steam. So far my friend and I will only have to pay 1/2 price for games that we want.

QFT.

I will be 1/3 for us if you know what I mean

...Are some of you really believing this? Like, even if it's true, are you truly seeing this as logical?

Microsoft is not Valve. The Xbox One is not Steam. It never will be. In its lifetime. The concept and principles aside, the two companies are different and this guy is talking out of his ass into a medium he clearly does not understand.

You just confirmed quite a few things we already knew, and a lot of why (not me, considering I never liked it to begin with) no one is going to support the system. The logic is flawed, the idea is warped, and the idea is not sound.

And, "unfortunately" I ONLY care about gaming. I already have a TV and a computer. I don't need my gaming console to do that for me. So, thanks for reaffirming why I need and will be getting a PS4. This is why you shouldn't pretend you're with PR. Just stick to being the engineer.

All I wanted from the Xbox One was backwards compatibility for I could get that console and get rid of the 360 but still have my inventory of games I like to hoard games and they made this big deal about being the only thing you will need for your living room but forgot to mention that you will still need to keep your 360 to play all those games you invested in to me it just is mind boggling that they would have not done so but if this were announced I would seriously reserve a console for day one otherwise I still got a lot of time to spend on my 360

oh and if dlc would also transfer that would be heavenly I seriously like what they are doing just feel they may have jumped the gun

There are several issues I have with this post.

First, there is a rapidly growing misconception that publishers/developers deserve a cut of used game sales. They ARE NOT entitled, in any shape or form, to money from a used game sale.

Second, Steam is popular and successful because of the frequent, massive sales that it promotes for relevant games. The only reason they can and do do this is because they are competing in an open market. They are competing against physical retail, Origin, GoG.com, etc. That is NOT the case for the Xbox marketplace. Digital sales for the Xbox One have zero competition because everything is sold through Live. There will never be incentive for Microsoft to host sales of the same caliber as Steam.

Lastly, Steam games can be played offline. X1 games cannot.

True some of these policies MAY be changed as the next generation matures, but there is no guarantee that will happen. There is certainly no guarantee they ever will be comparable to Steam. And you'd be a fool to buy into it now, expecting that they will be eventually.

I agree why should they get a cut of used game sales it is not like ford is saying hey all of you who sell their used cars need to pay us some of that money as long as they are getting a share from the beginning that's all they are entitled to nothing more

How is buying cars similar to selling software/games. A second hand car could be damaged, scratched, tires worn out etc but incase of purchasing a used game/ software a user wouldn't know the difference of new and second hand this would never push thee person to purchase a brand new product because the first hand and the second copies are the same and besides it is much easier to buy a used cop than to purchase a 2nd hand car.

If people keep purchasing used games from retailers, the only person profiting is them not the developers.

A second hand disc could be damaged too.

What the industry doesn't want to do is lower the price on a game when they know they should. You lower prices with the used game market and used games become a part of history but not these guys. They want top dollar for games that don't deserve it. Gears of War judgement was that last time I will be fooled like that again.

I was hoping that you would say that "A second hand disc could be damaged too" you could still access and play games even after a disc is damaged and no one would buy or sell a second hand game if a console can't read it/play a game without any problems.

I do not know about the past and I know the prices on currently on xbox live are very costly compared to buying a physical disc but remember the Xbox 360 is an old system with old polices, recently I've seen xbox live having deals like £2.99, £5.99 etc for a game, free games etc which reminds me of steam, if the Xbox One is trying to be anything Steam then I'll be one of the happiest persons and I support them.

Either this is inaccurate or people at XBOX division are nuts.

I understand that Steam is threat (also a revelation) to the gaming industry and I am fully aware that digital distribution is the future. So you put on those restrictions for "a gradual shift" of XBOX gaming model, which sounds legitimate except one point: To appease Gamestop and other major distributors, retail channel is still the major channel where people buy their XBOX One games. In this way, discounts like Steam will never come true, at least for now. In conclusion, you create a model where has Steam's restrictions but doesn't have Steam's benefit (for now) and now you are expecting consumers to endure it just because it is the necessary shift that takes a long run? You must be kidding. Not everyone is a millionaire.

Take a look at what Sony has been doing and learn. On PSV they make digital distribution channel mandatory for every title and give a small discount so people begin to get used to it. They then contacted with developers directly to let them decide if the next title would be digital-only. They even created the "PS Instant Gaming Collection" thing to make sure that developers can still get revenues from their old titles and new gamers can get a taste on old games with a surprisingly low price. (which is exactly Steam's strategy: give old games huge discount so people will give it another try)

Use your mind Microsoft! You are in your 30s, stop being a idealist!

I put this out to Sony. All they have to do is sell the digital download at say 45 or 50 bucks and watch discs disappear. They will always have to have the disc option cause people will want them for many reasons. The disc is 60 and you can do what you want, the cheaper digital download is on your system, attached to your account and Bobs your uncle. I can't believe no one at microsoft could figure that one out. Almost too easy.

Edited by Mo Jo, Jun 14 2013, 10:29am :

Ratros said,
Either this is inaccurate or people at XBOX division are nuts.

I understand that Steam is threat (also a revelation) to the gaming industry and I am fully aware that digital distribution is the future. So you put on those restrictions for "a gradual shift" of XBOX gaming model, which sounds legitimate except one point: To appease Gamestop and other major distributors, retail channel is still the major channel where people buy their XBOX One games. In this way, discounts like Steam will never come true, at least for now.

You can argue the same for Steam - games are still sold in physical form (mail order, in store) which *does* force prices to be the same at release and also enforces the regional delays to release dates (e.g. US versus UK dates are almost always out of synch). And yet Steam works - and that's without letting you either lend or resell *anything*.

Heck, i'm buying lots of 'on steam' games from GreenmanGaming for the discounts it offers (which Steam can't be seen to do).

I have a legit question:

I love to play with my old consoles from time to time... I often play with my NES, SNES, Genesis, Dreamcast, Saturn, etc. Some of these consoles are 20yo+

I doubt MS will support the new Xbox that long, so how will I play my old Xbox One games in 10 or 15 years, when the "online check" server will be shut down for good?

If its anything like Steam, when they shut down the servers they will likely have a patch available which removes the 'online checkin'
Adobe has similar steps in place when they shutdown their old activation servers by releasing master OEM keys which bypass the check in stage.

Microsoft's current consoles will likely be built to run on Live servers check in, its ideal to say it should last 10-20 years since they recently shutdown the old Xbox live to make way for the lattest version.

Its something MS will need to answer but its a 10 year question

Nice spin, MS. Problem is, even your DRM locked down content on your XBL site is still overpriced. You've got games on there at twice the price of EVERY OTHER STORE. So tell us again how you want to use these scheme to give us lower prices on software.

maybe its something they are looking at with the new one?

Originally they were priced to be on par with store ones, however we have seen (the last major sale) some well priced games via their online store

Exactly, I was looking to download portal 2 and when I checked, it's more expensive to download than to buy a brand new disc. That makes zero sense and THAT is why no one is buying this logic. They talk the talk but....

Show us on xbox live right now MS, lower prices... My guess is, they won't.

BS. BS. BS. Could have simply offered a choice, problem solved. As is, servers, my connection go away, it's a paperweight. F THAT.

Easy Remedy then, repeat after me:

"YOU ARE NOT TO BUY ANY XBOX ONE CONSOLE !
YOU ARE NOT TO BUY ANY XBOX ONE's GAMES !"

Repeat that lines,
practices that lines to reality,
and proselytizes that statements to anyone with any means.
Use the power of your collective wallets to veto against this.

As MS and game publisher suffer from reduced sales, they will start to rethink their 'intention'

Comparing themselves to Steam is LAME and INCOMPETENT at best.

You try to do better, not worse than your competitors. DRM is not a good thing, the best you can say is its a necessary EVIL. But an evil it is, and evil it will stay.

Steam does it best to counterweight this evil with DAILY deals and promotions. Sometimes letting users download games to play for free to entice them.

The analogy they make will make more sense if they were Origin (which we agree it completely SUCKS compared to Steam).

XBone (makes me laugh every time I ready this) screws up an old model in so many ways without so much of an afterthought. They are inside their little crystal castles, thinking everybody thinks and acts like them, or should at least. And if they don't, they're pirates. No middle ground, no exceptions.

"Buy an Xbox 360 then." Insulting at best. I already did. Three times thanks to the ring of death and the lousy repair service Microsoft has.

"Not everybody had that experience." Yeah but a great number of people did. And please don't stoop the even MORE offensive: "You didn't use it right." Because yeah, I DO use it right. The last one has blown up. Yes I have everything running through surge protectors and well ventilated.

So I paid. I paid the game. The Xbox live for at least 5 years. I paid the DLCs. I bought online games... So I deserve to be charged even MORE right?? I can pay, so there you go.

This is not capitalism, it's capitalist fascism at its most obtuse. You need millions to make the games? Then what happened with Halo?? That game was made by Bungie when it was just a 1990s Mac Developer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They didn't have almost any money and the concept was shown LIVE in a Macworld. That's why they were bought by Microsoft. The game was there, they just made it available to the Xbox (the original one).

They spin everything, they should put a political party!!! "We need millions to make good games?" No, honey, it's exactly the OTHER way around. Make a good game and THEN you make millions. That's the american dream. Not the other unjustifiable stuff you spill out of your cake-hole.

Then they compare themselves to the iTunes App Store model?? Not by a long-shot, those are mini games for a mini platform. And they are ULTRACHEAP compared to anything. There are freemium games of course, but the console publishers REFUSE to give up that model don't they?

So, you want US to give up the right to sell our used (AND BOUGHT FOR) games, you refuse us the right to even GIVE IT AWAY!!!

Paying for Live made a bit of sense, but all this other nonsense... The end they seek is CLEAR: they want us to RENT the games and pay CONSTANTLY for them!!!!

My God, basically you turned an enjoyable pastime into a tense, nerve-wracking, EXPENSIVE endeavor.

The game consoles disappeared many times before. Maybe the time is nearing for it to happen again.

And you know who will survive?? Sony?? Nah... And I don't think Nintendo either, no.

It will be Steam, the PC, the iStores and Android stores.

jhpadilla said,
Comparing themselves to Steam is LAME and INCOMPETENT at best.

Cool rant - but a bit daft. Steam is a digital distribution model - and the X1's model is actually better in some ways. I'd like to be able to lend games to friends or resell them on Steam. I can't.

Simply put, if MS can echo the whole 'Steam sale' thing then what they've done will be a huge step forward. The sad thing is this will be down to the publishers willing to accept that games can be sold cheaper and yet generate more revenue (due to more units being sold) or that older games which aren't moving should be priced down. My hope is that they will see the correlation with Steam and this will happen but it remains to be seen.

Also, er, yeah - capitalism is bad or something, comrade

If this is a true employee and I hope Microsoft confirms this, then the DRM on the new XBOX makes some sense. Grammar is terrible though, so this could be some uber Microsoft fan.

Geezy said,
In what way does it make more sense now than before this anonymous guy's post?

Because most people haven't bothered to listen or do their own investigating before jumping on the hate bandwagon.

If it was truly their aim to lower prices to cut down on shares, used and the like, they would be selling everything on xbox live much cheaper than you can buy elsewhere but they aren't.

They have other ideas in mind and it isn't cheaper games for us, it's more money for them.

If they cared about scratched discs, why didn't they fix the 360 when the problem was identified by the mod community and solved by a 5 cent washer?

They use Blu-Ray in the Xbox One, which has a scratch resistant coating. You can easily wipe off scratches, and the discs will work fine even after being scratched up with steel wool: http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2007/01/bluray_stands_u/

As for installing games, why don't they use on-disc one-time keys to tie it to your system? The PS3 can already do this with "Disc Benefits", and guess what, you can stay offline after you claim your ticket: http://www.justpushstart.com/2...get-your-free-vita-version/

TLDR: The mandatory 24 hour connection requirement is bull****. Even Steam doesn't need it and never imposed it since its inception.

Edited by Geezy, Jun 14 2013, 1:28am :

Geezy said,

TLDR: The mandatory 24 hour connection requirement is bull****. Even Steam doesn't need it and never imposed it since its inception.

Steam also doesn't let you share your games with 10 friends & family like XB1 does...

I really don't care. I bought the games for me. They can use my PC whenever they want, if I go to their house I can log in to my account, and if my friends want it they can buy their own damn copy and support the development studio.

Are you planning to use this with your friends like the PS3's five system limit to game developers out of their profits?

JonathanMarston said,

Steam also doesn't let you share your games with 10 friends & family like XB1 does...

Microsoft states Game Publishers will have final say on what if any DRM measures will apply to their games. Still want to know if the family lending list, and inclusion of games onto it is something that Game Publishers will be allowed to decide upon.

Also not being able to lend/borrow on Steam sucks, but it stings a lot less when you can get most games sub-$10. That's not the prices for Xbox One pre-order games.

Personally I prefer consoles because they're a lot more convenient, so I can buy/lend games easily and choose to install them by getting the digital copy instead. But I won't be buying the Xbox One because of its restrictions on such abilities.

Pretty bad when an engineer with (purposely/ranty) bad grammar spells it out 100000x better than the guys in suits. MS needs to tell the story better. They assume too much.

I agree with the direction they're going and I'm sure it'll have growing pains but it looks like they're playing the long game and Sony is just riding the one trick pony of status quo.

Like the guy says, I think they'll rethink the check-in time and a few other things. I just love how everyone goes apesh*t and we're still months away from release.

laserfloyd said,
I just love how everyone goes apesh*t and we're still months away from release.

The only part I agree with.

Sony riding a one trick pony? How so? By allowing their customers decide how and what they can do with their physical media while offering digital distribution.

And I would be fine with this if the games on XBox One were cheaper than PS4... Based on preorder prices, that doesn't appear to be the case...

M_Lyons10 said,
And I would be fine with this if the games on XBox One were cheaper than PS4... Based on preorder prices, that doesn't appear to be the case...

Even on Steam, games aren't cheaper when they're first released. You're paying the early adoptor tax. If you wait a few weeks/months, the prices on Steam come way down. Wait a year or two, and they're like $10 for multiple games.

Fezmid said,

Even on Steam, games aren't cheaper when they're first released. You're paying the early adoptor tax. If you wait a few weeks/months, the prices on Steam come way down. Wait a year or two, and they're like $10 for multiple games.

Yeah but you wont likely see that in store. When a game is sold at 10$ on Steam it's because it is not selling anymore. Better sell 10 copies at 10$ than 1 copie at 60$.

In a store when a game is not seeling anymore usually the store sells all the remaining copies and doesn't order new ones. They don't keep games that are not seeling. You might be able to buy them online from their online store but that's all.

Edited by LaP, Jun 14 2013, 3:23am :

As I said before, if they wanted to, they could implement this on xbox live now, cheaper games but they don't. It's not what they are after.

Fezmid said,

Even on Steam, games aren't cheaper when they're first released. You're paying the early adoptor tax. If you wait a few weeks/months, the prices on Steam come way down. Wait a year or two, and they're like $10 for multiple games.

Unless you look at games like Borderlands 2 where if you and 3 friends put your money together you could essentially buy 3 get 1 free at launch.

'Insane Deals' like on the 360 where every single game for sale on there is currently as the same price as it was when it was put onto the store (more expensive than buying the game from a shop). Oh yeah, right, pull the other one.

n_K said,
'Insane Deals' like on the 360 where every single game for sale on there is currently as the same price as it was when it was put onto the store (more expensive than buying the game from a shop). Oh yeah, right, pull the other one.

?
did you read the post, or am I not understanding you? the 360 doesn't have the same DRM, which is why (according to the engineer) the games are still so expensive.

Matthew_Thepc said,

?
did you read the post, or am I not understanding you? the 360 doesn't have the same DRM, which is why (according to the engineer) the games are still so expensive.

I'm talking about retail games you can buy off xbox live, same as the disc version but they're locked to your account and can't be sold or whatnot. They have reduced the price now finally from what I can see, though it's still a rip off, $19.99 for fable 2 or fable 3 when fable 2 is much older? wtf!
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en...77fe-1000-9115-d8024d5307f1
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en...77fe-1000-9115-d8024d5308d6

n_K said,

I'm talking about retail games you can buy off xbox live, same as the disc version but they're locked to your account and can't be sold or whatnot. They have reduced the price now finally from what I can see, though it's still a rip off, $19.99 for fable 2 or fable 3 when fable 2 is much older? wtf!
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en...77fe-1000-9115-d8024d5307f1
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en...77fe-1000-9115-d8024d5308d6

Ah, that makes more sense, I was a bit confused by your original comment

While I agree with you that this doesn't make the future look quite as bright, I think the idea would be that when every game for Xbox is sold with these restrictions, it opens the door for more talks on pricing.

Same here... Portal 2 on xbox live $30 bucks, anywhere else on the internet $20 bucks. Why is it not selling for 15 on XBL? Cause they have no intention on saving us money.

Not a particularly professional post, however the arguments are there and they are pretty solid imo.

As a heavy user of steam, the xb1 policies don't really bother me too much, though i'm leaning toward the PS4, I've already pre-ordered one.

He's right in saying that through steam, it had a bumpy start, but people came around, and look at it now, discounts galore, cheap games, huge sales, it's fantastic. Of course it still has its issues/problems, offline play is possible though can be hard to activate, since you have to be online to activate it.

The sharing of games via the could with up to 10 'family' members is actually a really cool feature, even if it is only there to replace the idea of lending games, except it's more convenient for more people.

Happy_Camel said,
...He's right in saying that through steam, it had a bumpy start, but people came around, and look at it now, discounts galore, cheap games, huge sales, it's fantastic. Of course it still has its issues/problems, offline play is possible though can be hard to activate, since you have to be online to activate it...

Sure there are huge sales on Steam, but like this guy says they're trying to kill off retail sales and then Xbox Live will be the ONLY distribution platform. Why would the publishers ever offer Steam like discounts on a platform with no competitor?

Also I don't know what you mean about offline play being hard to activate on Steam. You log-in hit "Offline Mode" and then you play as long as you want.

"...You log-in..." that's all I meant by it being difficult, to play offline, you have to be online to activate offline mode.

You're right in that if the MS Store is the only place to get games why would people have sales/discounts.

Well, they would do it to make a few more sales, that's why they have them.

It would be good to have some competition of course.

I hope that this indeed leads to cheaper games. That would be good for everyone. I'm still sceptical at the moment...time will tell.

IgorP said,

Sure there are huge sales on Steam, but like this guy says they're trying to kill off retail sales and then Xbox Live will be the ONLY distribution platform. Why would the publishers ever offer Steam like discounts on a platform with no competitor?<

The games are competing with each other.

On Steam when a game is old the only way to have it featured is to reduce the price.

LaP said,

The games are competing with each other.

On Steam when a game is old the only way to have it featured is to reduce the price.

That is true, but will we see Steam style discounts or will we see PSN style discounts of 25% on games that are years old?

Either way the argument is sort of moot at the moment. All we can do is wait and see.

ahhell said,
If that's true, he did a better job of explaining xbone than the execs did.

I completely agree. It actually made a bit more sense to me reading it from someone putting themselves on our level.

With that said, I still don't agree with the 24hr connection as well as Microsoft telling people to just use the Xbox 360 if they dont have internet.

I totally agree. I was rather put off from the Xbox One before... but now reading this, I totally get it now.

And yeah, I also agree that they should do more for those who just can't connect to the Internet every 24 hours... but hopefully, like the person said, they'll be doing something about it.

Yeah, this is fairly believable. It reeks of Microsoft logic.

All they needed to do is wait half a generation or so and the inexorable shift to digital distribution would of allowed them (everyone) to naturally move from the used game model to the model Steam uses.

But no, they had to be arrogant and ignore the ongoing pro-used games narrative that has been talked about for the last year or so. Now they've likely cost themselves the lead in the next console generation.

gg go next 2ez

You can't really change the deals between publishers and retail half-way in a generation, and it just causes way too much grief for consumers. None of this stuff this guy said is blatantly false, Game stop does have a ton of power and developers do get F()#ed when Gamestop sells a used game 1 week later for $54.99 when a person could have bought a copy new. It absolutely sucks.

The only way the industry moves forward is if someone tries to push it, otherwise you get idiotic behavior everyone keeps following for no apparent reason long after it makes sense.

dagamer34 said,

The only way the industry moves forward is if someone tries to push it, otherwise you get idiotic behavior everyone keeps following for no apparent reason long after it makes sense.

The industry didn't need pushing, it was already naturally moving towards an ecosystem that has no resale, that's the problem.

Disc based media will eventually die out, all Microsoft needed to do was ride out the last few years of it and push digital distribution. Hell, leverage those exclusive the fanboys keep bleating about and release some Halos or Gears of Wars digitally with a release day advantage.

But no, they had to shoot themselves in the foot again.

Athernar said,

The industry didn't need pushing, it was already naturally moving towards an ecosystem that has no resale, that's the problem.

Disc based media will eventually die out, all Microsoft needed to do was ride out the last few years of it and push digital distribution. Hell, leverage those exclusive the fanboys keep bleating about and release some Halos or Gears of Wars digitally with a release day advantage.

But no, they had to shoot themselves in the foot again.


So let other companies be the creative ones to implement digital download marketplaces, then adopt it once a critical mass of people have already accepted it? Would you be one of those people who would ultimately call them copycats? Sorry and no offense, but how can you be so weak minded?

With the Xbox One, they are taking the initiative. They are the ones trying to "push digital distribution." The best way for them to know the future of the digital marketplace in a "half a generation" is for them to create and establish it themselves. If you don't like that, there's a console for people who like playing it safe: the PlayStation 4.

dagamer34 said,
You can't really change the deals between publishers and retail half-way in a generation, and it just causes way too much grief for consumers. None of this stuff this guy said is blatantly false, Game stop does have a ton of power and developers do get F()#ed when Gamestop sells a used game 1 week later for $54.99 when a person could have bought a copy new. It absolutely sucks.

The only way the industry moves forward is if someone tries to push it, otherwise you get idiotic behavior everyone keeps following for no apparent reason long after it makes sense.

Hey how many times these developers need money on their product. They already got their $60 which included cost of development and profit. Games are not perpetual like patents. You make a product and sell it then its up to people what to do with it. Thats why you have profit margins built in to product sale price. Once you made that profit then invest it in to new product. If some one says developers are loosing because of used games then i will call it BS. First it means either developers or game production house does not know how to mark up their product and with $60 mark if they still run in loss due to used games then I will say either they build crap game which very few people bought or they need to financially restructure then company so they remain profitable.

I am sure used auto market is much bigger than game market but I have not seen yet any auto maker saying of we need another share of used market so you need to take permission from us first if you want to sell your car and give us a little commision.

Auditor said,

Hey how many times these developers need money on their product. They already got their $60 which included cost of development and profit. Games are not perpetual like patents. You make a product and sell it then its up to people what to do with it. Thats why you have profit margins built in to product sale price. Once you made that profit then invest it in to new product. If some one says developers are loosing because of used games then i will call it BS. First it means either developers or game production house does not know how to mark up their product and with $60 mark if they still run in loss due to used games then I will say either they build crap game which very few people bought or they need to financially restructure then company so they remain profitable.

Not trying to counter your statements here, but according to the Pastebin thing this article was about, one of the eventual goals here was to make the games cheaper than $60, if I read it right...

AWilliams87 said,

So let other companies be the creative ones to implement digital download marketplaces, then adopt it once a critical mass of people have already accepted it? Would you be one of those people who would ultimately call them copycats? Sorry and no offense, but how can you be so weak minded?

If anyone is weak minded here it is yourself with your inability to understand what is being said.

Digital distribution has already been "done", Steam mastered it. All that was left is for the aforementioned inevitable movement away from physical media.

Do you really enjoy being screwed by Microsoft so much that you don't see how pointless the Xbone's restrictions are?

AWilliams87 said,

With the Xbox One, they are taking the initiative. They are the ones trying to "push digital distribution." The best way for them to know the future of the digital marketplace in a "half a generation" is for them to create and establish it themselves. If you don't like that, there's a console for people who like playing it safe: the PlayStation 4.

Save me from your shill script, there is nothing about the XBone that is "pushing" digital distribution any more than the other consoles. The controversy is purely about physical media.

Athernar said,

If anyone is weak minded here it is yourself with your inability to understand what is being said.

Digital distribution has already been "done", Steam mastered it. All that was left is for the aforementioned inevitable movement away from physical media.

Do you really enjoy being screwed by Microsoft so much that you don't see how pointless the Xbone's restrictions are?

Save me from your shill script, there is nothing about the XBone that is "pushing" digital distribution any more than the other consoles. The controversy is purely about physical media.


You probably enjoy being screwed by Steam I guess?
no resell, no sharing, no trade, no give away. or just too weak minded?

(see? I can do it too!)

Athernar said,

If anyone is weak minded here it is yourself with your inability to understand what is being said.

Digital distribution has already been "done", Steam mastered it. All that was left is for the aforementioned inevitable movement away from physical media.

Do you really enjoy being screwed by Microsoft so much that you don't see how pointless the Xbone's restrictions are?

Save me from your shill script, there is nothing about the XBone that is "pushing" digital distribution any more than the other consoles. The controversy is purely about physical media.


When you setup a digital marketplace and move away from physical media, you are ultimately pushing digital distribution. This is what puts them at the forefront; at least one the console side of things. You can deny it and claim the Xbox One and the PS4 are similar to that respect, but you would be wrong.

Crimson Rain said,

You probably enjoy being screwed by Steam I guess?
no resell, no sharing, no trade, no give away. or just too weak minded?

(see? I can do it too!)

No, you can't do it too. Go back to school.

If you had a shred of reading comprehension you would understand why.

AWilliams87 said,

When you setup a digital marketplace and move away from physical media, you are ultimately pushing digital distribution. This is what puts them at the forefront; at least one the console side of things. You can deny it and claim the Xbox One and the PS4 are similar to that respect, but you would be wrong.

Put the fanboy aside for a second and actually try reading what is in front of your face rather than thinking you know what you're responding to.

The core issue around the One is the needless extension of DD-model policy onto physical media. Physical media is approaching end of life.

Engage the rational part of your brain and think about it, what would of been the better choice? Ride out the last few days of physical media and let DD naturally take over later in the generation, or spawn all this controversy and lose the #1 spot in market share.

Athernar said,

No, you can't do it too. Go back to school.

If you had a shred of reading comprehension you would understand why.

Put the fanboy aside for a second and actually try reading what is in front of your face rather than thinking you know what you're responding to.

The core issue around the One is the needless extension of DD-model policy onto physical media. Physical media is approaching end of life.

Engage the rational part of your brain and think about it, what would of been the better choice? Ride out the last few days of physical media and let DD naturally take over later in the generation, or spawn all this controversy and lose the #1 spot in market share.


If by "Ride out the last few days of physical media" you mean removing the game trading restriction and the likes, then I don't agree with you that it's a better choice if it leads to a delay in the steam-style environment the anonymous poster is speaking of. As he said, "Steam's model requires a limited used game model." This is why your comment which said "there is nothing about the XBone that is 'pushing' digital distribution any more than the other consoles" is simply wrong. The PS4 does not restrict used games.

Sure, in a perfect world, I would like you buy cheaper games and trade them in as freely as I please. But that's simple not what would be possible.

AWilliams87 said,

If by "Ride out the last few days of physical media" you mean removing the game trading restriction and the likes, then I don't agree with you that it's a better choice if it leads to a delay in the steam-style environment the anonymous poster is speaking of. As he said, "Steam's model requires a limited used game model." This is why your comment which said "there is nothing about the XBone that is 'pushing' digital distribution any more than the other consoles" is simply wrong. The PS4 does not restrict used games.

Sure, in a perfect world, I would like you buy cheaper games and trade them in as freely as I please. But that's simple not what would be possible.

Stop talking about Steam, it has zero relevance as it is purely a DD sales platform. The topic is the application of DD-style restrictions on physical media and physical media alone.

Microsoft's stance has cost them their market lead and likely has impeded the growth of DD on consoles by making the overarching topic of resale contentious.

It really is that simple once you put aside the tinted glasses of Microsoft's arrogance.

Athernar said,

The core issue around the One is the needless extension of DD-model policy onto physical media. Physical media is approaching end of life.

Engage the rational part of your brain and think about it, what would of been the better choice? Ride out the last few days of physical media and let DD naturally take over later in the generation, or spawn all this controversy and lose the #1 spot in market share.

That's exactly the point. Physical media is reaching the end of life. Microsoft is not willing to sit around and wait for it to die down.

There's advantages to digital distribution and Microsoft wants that advantages now. They don't want to have it naturally take over, because that means people won't get its advantages until it takes over, and additionally, who knows when or even if it will take over? If Microsoft doesn't make the change, who's to say that change will ever happen?

Microsoft's taking the bull by its horns.

Athernar said,

Stop talking about Steam, it has zero relevance as it is purely a DD sales platform. The topic is the application of DD-style restrictions on physical media and physical media alone.

Microsoft's stance has cost them their market lead and likely has impeded the growth of DD on consoles by making the overarching topic of resale contentious.

It really is that simple once you put aside the tinted glasses of Microsoft's arrogance.


How could steam have "zero relevance"? You yourself mentioned Steam saying they've "mastered" Digital distribution. The poster made it clear that this was the model Microsoft was aiming for. According to him, "The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)... it's a long tail strategy, just like steam."

The point of the restriction on physical media is to push the steam model forward onto the Xbox One. Anonymous poster: "Steam's model requires a limited used game model." This is why there are "restrictions on physical media."

As I say again, this puts the Xbox One at the forefront of this " inexorable shift [towards] digital distribution." Saying the PS4 and the Xbox are similar to that respect, which you have, would simply be wrong.

Edited by AWilliams87, Jun 14 2013, 11:41pm :

JaykeBird said,

That's exactly the point. Physical media is reaching the end of life. Microsoft is not willing to sit around and wait for it to die down.

There's advantages to digital distribution and Microsoft wants that advantages now. They don't want to have it naturally take over, because that means people won't get its advantages until it takes over, and additionally, who knows when or even if it will take over? If Microsoft doesn't make the change, who's to say that change will ever happen?

Microsoft's taking the bull by its horns.

And have handed Sony a win through their arrogance. Their loss.

AWilliams87 said,

How could steam have "zero relevance"? You yourself mentioned Steam saying they've "mastered" Digital distribution. The poster made it clear that this was the model Microsoft was aiming for. According to him, "The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)... it's a long tail strategy, just like steam."

The point of the restriction on physical media is to push the steam model forward onto the Xbox One. Anonymous poster: "Steam's model requires a limited used game model." This is why there are "restrictions on physical media."

As I say again, this puts the Xbox One at the forefront of this " inexorable shift [towards] digital distribution." Saying the PS4 and the Xbox are similar to that respect, which you have, would simply be wrong.

Are you being intentionally dense? Steam's model is irrelevant as it's purely DD oriented, the topic is about physical media as I have already explained twice now.

Restricting physical media does nothing to further the goal of transitioning to DD, it harms it by making the subject of resale a contentious topic and harms Microsoft's image.

Pushing DD as a first-class purchase method while retaining the status quo for physical media is FACTUALLY the superior approach. Which is exactly what happened with the PC and DD. Microsoft's inability to see this is proof of gross incompetence, the Xbox division should be fired and blacklisted from the industry.

Athernar said,

And have handed Sony a win through their arrogance. Their loss.

Are you being intentionally dense? Steam's model is irrelevant as it's purely DD oriented, the topic is about physical media as I have already explained twice now.

Restricting physical media does nothing to further the goal of transitioning to DD, it harms it by making the subject of resale a contentious topic and harms Microsoft's image.

Pushing DD as a first-class purchase method while retaining the status quo for physical media is FACTUALLY the superior approach. Which is exactly what happened with the PC and DD. Microsoft's inability to see this is proof of gross incompetence, the Xbox division should be fired and blacklisted from the industry.


Yes, you must be right, and the anonymous developer, along with the rest of the Xbox division, and those who oversee it, must be wrong as they all suffer from "gross incompetence." If what you say it true, surely I support your notion that they should be "blacklisted from the industry."

But tell me at least: how do you know they're wrong and you right? How do you know they're grossly incompetent, yet you can see the light? I have yet to see any actual evidence or explanation as to why this is the case. How can you say something is "factually... superior" without any data to show it. So please help me to understand with actual attestation to the truth.

AWilliams87 said,

Yes, you must be right, and the anonymous developer, along with the rest of the Xbox division, and those who oversee it, must be wrong as they all suffer from "gross incompetence." If what you say it true, surely I support your notion that they should be "blacklisted from the industry."

But tell me at least: how do you know they're wrong and you right? How do you know they're grossly incompetent, yet you can see the light? I have yet to see any actual evidence or explanation as to why this is the case. How can you say something is "factually... superior" without any data to show it. So please help me to understand with actual attestation to the truth.

Sigh, I've already explained this.

It's simple really - it's already happened. PC gaming transitioned from physical media to digital distribution with nothing more than the allure of the inherent advantages over physical media. In that regard Steam is relevant - as a precedent/reference.

Applying the restrictions that are a part of the DD ecosystem on the PC to physical media on Consoles has caused a giant uproar while providing zero advantages to the consumer.

As I've said MULTIPLE times now, the death of physical media is inevitable. All they had to do was wait it out, but no. That arrogance has cost them.

Athernar said,

Sigh, I've already explained this.

It's simple really - it's already happened. PC gaming transitioned from physical media to digital distribution with nothing more than the allure of the inherent advantages over physical media. In that regard Steam is relevant - as a precedent/reference.

Applying the restrictions that are a part of the DD ecosystem on the PC to physical media on Consoles has caused a giant uproar while providing zero advantages to the consumer.

As I've said MULTIPLE times now, the death of physical media is inevitable. All they had to do was wait it out, but no. That arrogance has cost them.

You and I both agree that "digital distribution" has "inherent advantages over physical media." However, If I buy StarCraft 2 on a cd-disc, I cannot give it to a friend at all; it does not matter if it's digital or physical, yet you're trying to make it seem as if it's "purely" digital on the PC side of things.

Where we mostly disagree also is you think Microsoft should wait and not restrict trading disc, while I think they should restrict it if doing so brings about a steam-like environment. The aforementioned developer: "If you want games cheaper then 59.99... [the] model requires a limited used game model." This is one of the things which drove the adoption of digital media. This limitation applies to both digital and physical copies.

The developer: "once they had a... marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted ****." That is what Xbox One is trying to do in order for this shift to occurred. "If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more."

To reiterate: In order to "transition from physical media to digital distribution", restriction on game trading is needed. If you don't restrict trading on both digital and physical copies, you wont get cheaper games digitally. Games are restricted physically on the PC as well. Try buying a modern PC game on disc, then giving it away.

AWilliams87 said,

You and I both agree that "digital distribution" has "inherent advantages over physical media." However, If I buy StarCraft 2 on a cd-disc, I cannot give it to a friend at all; it does not matter if it's digital or physical, yet you're trying to make it seem as if it's "purely" digital on the PC side of things.

Where we mostly disagree also is you think Microsoft should wait and not restrict trading disc, while I think they should restrict it if doing so brings about a steam-like environment. The aforementioned developer: "If you want games cheaper then 59.99... [the] model requires a limited used game model." This is one of the things which drove the adoption of digital media. This limitation applies to both digital and physical copies.

The developer: "once they had a... marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted ****." That is what Xbox One is trying to do in order for this shift to occurred. "If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more."

To reiterate: In order to "transition from physical media to digital distribution", restriction on game trading is needed. If you don't restrict trading on both digital and physical copies, you wont get cheaper games digitally. Games are restricted physically on the PC as well. Try buying a modern PC game on disc, then giving it away.

So you agree I'm completely right then.

Since if you think it's a good idea -IF- restricting physical media brings about a Steam model, when restricting physical media does nothing but harm the timeframe for the DD shift, screw the consumer, and kill the Xbox One - while doing nothing to further DD.

You obviously must then think restricting physical media is a bad idea.

Athernar said,

If you had a shred of reading comprehension you would understand why.

You keep on babbling about DD-restrictions on physical media.

If you had a shred of reading comprehension, you would understand that xbox one is based on digital distribution.
The physical media is there for people who have poor internet connection. It is like installing a game in steam, backing it up using steam backup feature, burning it in the DVD/Bluray and giving it to people with poor internet connection so they don't have to download the game for 5 days.

The purpose of the physical media (that is present in XBO) is to speed up the installation process for people who need it. XBO is digital distribution based with optional backup-type physical media.

Crimson Rain said,

You keep on babbling about DD-restrictions on physical media.

If you had a shred of reading comprehension, you would understand that xbox one is based on digital distribution.
The physical media is there for people who have poor internet connection. It is like installing a game in steam, backing it up using steam backup feature, burning it in the DVD/Bluray and giving it to people with poor internet connection so they don't have to download the game for 5 days.

The purpose of the physical media (that is present in XBO) is to speed up the installation process for people who need it. XBO is digital distribution based with optional backup-type physical media.

If you had a shred of intelligence you would understand that games consoles are still physical media based, regardless of what claims Microsoft may make in order to get gullible fanboys like yourself to do free PR for them.

You cannot make that transition immediately, and attempting to force it will cause backlash.

But no, please. Go ahead and justify corporate abuses like this, it's not like I have anything to lose either way. It's purely your and Microsoft's loss when the console fails to take off.

Athernar said,

If you had a shred of intelligence you would understand that games consoles are still physical media based, regardless of what claims Microsoft may make in order to get gullible fanboys like yourself to do free PR for them.

You cannot make that transition immediately, and attempting to force it will cause backlash.

But no, please. Go ahead and justify corporate abuses like this, it's not like I have anything to lose either way. It's purely your and Microsoft's loss when the console fails to take off.

No prob, just use whatever console works for you. I'll use what works for me.

Athernar said,

If you had a shred of intelligence you would understand that games consoles are still physical media based, regardless of what claims Microsoft may make in order to get gullible fanboys like yourself to do free PR for them.

You cannot make that transition immediately, and attempting to force it will cause backlash.

But no, please. Go ahead and justify corporate abuses like this, it's not like I have anything to lose either way. It's purely your and Microsoft's loss when the console fails to take off.


Sorry to burst your bubble, xbox one is not physical media based. PS4 is.

Let me get this straight Mr. Sams, some bloke creates a pastebin page claiming to be a Microsoft engineer and you run with it?

This is a new low, even for Neowin.

COKid said,
Let me get this straight Mr. Sams, some bloke creates a pastebin page claiming to be a Microsoft engineer and you run with it?

This is a new low, even for Neowin.


Does it matters who said that? What matters is what he is saying is true and explains why microsoft chose this path despite knowing it will be a problem by skimmers like you

The problem with Steam is once you buy a game you're stuck with, the prices are fixed with sales once a while, you can only play the games you're logged into your account, and some games need the internet to play. The plus side is with steam, you can re-download game anytime and play then them instantly. I think the steam model is inappropriate for a game console because kids like bringing games over to friends houses, people like to sell their games or buy used games easily, and if a console breaks then you may be stuck with your games forever.

Edited by Atomic Wanderer Chicken, Jun 14 2013, 12:11am :

I think the Steam model will work. No matter what console it is, whether it's your console or someone else's, you log into it, and all of your games are right there. You go over to a friend's house and you log in, you all can play any one of your games right there (no being like "oh sorry, I forgot that disc at home"). The additions are that Microsoft adds in provisions for you to sell games you don't want, and loan them to friends.

If this really from one of the Xbox engineers it would also be nice if they could clarify on the topic of shared games between family members or friends. Only one of ten being able to play from your shared library at any given time or up to all 10 as long as they are different games?

I'm pretty sure it's different games. Game duplication wouldn't be feasible, but I think you can be playing Halo while your "family member" plays Forza.

I remember reading in a different Neowin article (sorry, don't remember each one) that two people can't play the same game at the same time.

But those two people can be like across the country or whatever, and you can share your entire game library with them.

DARKFiB3R said,
lol, doesn't sound like an engineer to me.

Sounds exactly how I would imagine a young American software engineer to sound.

Lone Wanderer Chicken said,
sounds more like a disgruntled engineer

How exactly does he sound disgruntled?
He's honest and critical about what MS did wrong but is overly positive about what MS is trying to do.
I think it's you looking for the worst in everything Xbone related that is the problem.

This level of DRM would be acceptable to me, if, and only if, the game prices were like Steam, with sales offering decent discounts.

While I get what the guy is saying, I'd not by into the platform until I can see that as a reality, not a vague future possibility of some random anon guy. It'll be PS4 for me, my first PS ever (Sega for a few, then Xbox). Once you give that control to the publishers, I'm not sure EA for one would be willing to drop the price. If they manage to pull it off, maybe in year 3 or so I might pick up a cheaper xbox, but not as things stand.

What's worse is that the argument is starting to take a turn for the "Come on, guys! Games will be cheaper if we do it this way!" as if we are to believe that could even possibly be true just from words.

It's not about what they say, it's about what they DO, and even then, it takes time to establish such a reputation. It doesn't happen overnight.

Which is something I think people are forgetting right now - we're going on 8 years this generation, you can bet the next one will be at least as long, which is well more than enough time for people to see the benefits that come from moving from disc to digital.

Yep that is the key. If the game prices go to down to $40 and below you will see a huge shift to Xbox. Will they really do it, who knows.

spenser.d said,
Which is something I think people are forgetting right now - we're going on 8 years this generation, you can bet the next one will be at least as long, which is well more than enough time for people to see the benefits that come from moving from disc to digital.

Thankfully, we can hold onto our money until we see it happen.

libertas83 said,
Yep that is the key. If the game prices go to down to $40 and below you will see a huge shift to Xbox. Will they really do it, who knows.

Do you think that if Xbox prices went down to $40 we wouldn't see an immediate shift from PS4 games to match?

spenser.d said,
Which is something I think people are forgetting right now - we're going on 8 years this generation, you can bet the next one will be at least as long, which is well more than enough time for people to see the benefits that come from moving from disc to digital.

Which is why Sony will also offer digital version of the PS4 games on PSN.

libertas83 said,
Yep that is the key. If the game prices go to down to $40 and below you will see a huge shift to Xbox. Will they really do it, who knows.

It wont. Games on Steam are for the most part 50$ and 60$. They come down in price only after some months.

The difference between a store and Steam is on Steam the publisher can decide to reduce the price at will. The sales is the difference. I've even seen free games on Steam here and there.

LaP said,

It wont. Games on Steam are for the most part 50$ and 60$. They come down in price only after some months.

The difference between a store and Steam is on Steam the publisher can decide to reduce the price at will. The sales is the difference. I've even seen free games on Steam here and there.

I'm sure that MS has a set time period so retailers cans ell their disc copies and get their cut but then after that the developer/publisher can slash the price of the digital copy. To the consumer having the digital copy be suddenly $10-$15 cheaper, say, 3 weeks later, would make sense to them because they figure, well, there's no disc so the cost is cheaper that way.

Regardless, the key here is that even with digital as we have it now, GoD for the 360 as an example, not every game is on GoD, they all will be on the XB1, also by the time games showed up on GoD for the 360 it was so long after that I bet the retail sales had dried up already which let publishers put them up for less. I got the newest Hitman game through GoD for $29.95 iirc, but like, what, 3 months after it first came out? Maybe longer?

There's also a few other changes to the XB1 that I think no ones talked about as well but that I think are going to happen. Now that we can get background updating for games I believe the game update limits and costs MS originally has in place on the 360 are going to be dropped. I expect that developers aren't restricted in how often they push out game updates/patches now because if the system works like it should, you won't even know it was updated overnight while you were sleeping.

Between 1-3 months after a game is released, Walmart tends to put new games on sale for $30 for about a week. I've grabbed a few at this price.

Kreuger said,
Between 1-3 months after a game is released, Walmart tends to put new games on sale for $30 for about a week. I've grabbed a few at this price.

Sounds about right to me, 1 month should give retail enough of a advantage to sell their disc copies and then digital can start price cutting.

Kreuger said,
Between 1-3 months after a game is released, Walmart tends to put new games on sale for $30 for about a week. I've grabbed a few at this price.

Maybe in USA but not here.

LaP said,

Maybe in USA but not here.

This. Here in Australia for new games, if you get a good price, you're looking at $70-80 AUD each. Until recently our dollar was actually stronger than the US dollar too.

Bargain bin games here are $20, and if a game is popular enough it'll never hit that price.

That's not to say you can't buy games cheaper, many people order them from overseas and the occasional deal will pop up on a game here and there, but prices are generally ridiculous.

On the other hand I've bought basically all my Steam games (over 200) for < $20. I don't care about getting them on release because I don't have time to play them immediately anyway. The only game I buy on release is Fifa and I grab that for PC via overseas CD Key selling sites for about $25-$30 or so.

what the hell neowin. you use a freakin anonymous pastebin and act like its a Microsoft employee posting this? looks like a 13 year wrote wrote it. WTF, this is a dead giveaway


Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4.

vcfan said,
what the hell neowin. you use a freakin anonymous pastebin and act like its a Microsoft employee posting this?

well the pastebin poster doesn't say he's from Microsoft, he says he's quoting a Microsoft employee on 4chan the other night (and /b/ for that matter, you'd think he'd be on /g/ or games or something...)

I use steam and I love it, so I don't have a problem with any xbox one policies. Just give us good discounts and I'll be good to go.

Avi Patel said,
I use steam and I love it, so I don't have a problem with any xbox one policies. Just give us good discounts and I'll be good to go.

Same here. But I think if they were trying to emulate steam, then they wouldn't have had the 24hr check. After the initial login to a steam account you are no longer required to be online to play an installed game.

SharpGreen said,

Same here. But I think if they were trying to emulate steam, then they wouldn't have had the 24hr check. After the initial login to a steam account you are no longer required to be online to play an installed game.

But you can't trade Steam games in at Gamestop... The only reason the 24 hour check exists is so people could trade in their games...

SharpGreen said,

Same here. But I think if they were trying to emulate steam, then they wouldn't have had the 24hr check. After the initial login to a steam account you are no longer required to be online to play an installed game.

But you can't let other people play your Steam games. They had to have a shorter period on the xbox, or multiple people would be able to play the same game simultaneously for long period of time.

Sounds perfectly reasonable, as long as, as you say, the consumer benefits from lower prices, now that presumed lost profits due to resales and piracy are taken out of the equation.

What Sony is saying about the PS4 makes no business sense whatsover, and is clearly contrary to what they would really like to do. In future, particularly once it proves successful for MS, they too will quickly transition to a digital distribution model.

Shiranui said,

What Sony is saying about the PS4 makes no business sense whatsover, and is clearly contrary to what they would really like to do. In future, particularly once it proves successful for MS, they too will quickly transition to a digital distribution model.

You do realise you can buy game sonline on PSN right ??? How is that not making any sense exactly ?? Not sure i understand the logic.

Sony consider boxed copies as boxed copies and digital copies as digital copies. And I personally think Sony is right to do that.

Can we just stop the comparison between Steam and boxed copies in store already. If this guy think the store will make the same kind of sales Steam does he is totally delusional and should stop smoking **** it's not good for his brain.

giantpotato said,

But you can't let other people play your Steam games. They had to have a shorter period on the xbox, or multiple people would be able to play the same game simultaneously for long period of time.


Yea you can. Just not at the same time you are. It's called sharing an account. There is no time limit.

A similar system could've been implemented on the xbone as well. Only allow a live account to be in use by one person at a time. Which I'd bet is already done in addition to the timed check.

Shiranui said,
Sounds perfectly reasonable, as long as, as you say, the consumer benefits from lower prices, now that presumed lost profits due to resales and piracy are taken out of the equation.

What Sony is saying about the PS4 makes no business sense whatsover, and is clearly contrary to what they would really like to do. In future, particularly once it proves successful for MS, they too will quickly transition to a digital distribution model.

Like the Sony side keeps forgetting about the 10 friends game sharing list, the XBox side keeps forgetting that all PS4 games at launch will be available as digital downloads.

SharpGreen said,

Same here. But I think if they were trying to emulate steam, then they wouldn't have had the 24hr check. After the initial login to a steam account you are no longer required to be online to play an installed game.

The "phone home" check is necessary precisely because Microsoft is allowing you to still buy games on physical media. You can't do that on Steam, so a similar check isn't needed.

Basically, Microsoft is making Xbox Live more like Steam, but is preserving scenarios that console gamers enjoy today, like being able to buy games on disk, and selling or trading them in the future. These are actually consumer-friendly moves, compared to other digital marketplaces that don't offer these options.

Hmmmm, I preordered both of them. We can only hope MS will have their ducks in a row soon. I am already unhappy about the headset, even though I don't use it often. Personally, I have no problems with the DRM. This generation, I almost always use the 360 for online, PC with the 360 controller for PC games (keyboards don't like leftys), and the PS3 for exclusives.

I don't want the Xbox One to be my new PS3, filled with bad experiences of downtime (after the KZ3 release mind you), lengthy updates, dead slow installs, and the porting which made some titles graphically inferior. My biggest fear is removing titles from the market, making them always full price. They will exclusively control that now. I almost always wait for most AAA titles to reduce price before purchasing, usually by 50%. Gamefly has been a great resource and filled at least a third of my collection. Sharing is useless for me. I'll hold onto the preorder for now, we'll see.

Silversee said,

The "phone home" check is necessary precisely because Microsoft is allowing you to still buy games on physical media. You can't do that on Steam, so a similar check isn't needed.

Basically, Microsoft is making Xbox Live more like Steam, but is preserving scenarios that console gamers enjoy today, like being able to buy games on disk, and selling or trading them in the future. These are actually consumer-friendly moves, compared to other digital marketplaces that don't offer these options.

Actually, there are a few steam games that can be bought in a regular store on discs. I think the most recent was Black Ops 2, so I was still right, in that a check is not required.

SharpGreen said,

Yea you can. Just not at the same time you are. It's called sharing an account. There is no time limit.

A similar system could've been implemented on the xbone as well. Only allow a live account to be in use by one person at a time. Which I'd bet is already done in addition to the timed check.

The would never EVER be a choice. Accounts on Xbox Live are also mail, skydrive, billing etc. so they are too personal for people to share. In steam the account is only for steam and someone can "cheat" by sharing account(I'm think sharing with friends, not familiy when I say cheat). Xbox Live uses you all-in-one MS account which gives great benefits, but limits you to not share it too much. And btw, sharing games with by using the same account is also possible on Xbox One, just like steam. The difference is that Xbox One ALSO support sharing between accounts too(without the need for the owner to even log in on his/hers console).

After reading the employee's trash talk, can Microsoft guarantee reduced prices in $40's or $50's range? No.

I think this is just some form of fluff to catch gullible average gamers in to MS's evil net.

If they were trying to emulate steam, they would have done it by now. There is nothing to stop them from dropping the prices on Xbox Live right now but they don't cause it's not their intentions.

Mo Jo said,
If they were trying to emulate steam, they would have done it by now. There is nothing to stop them from dropping the prices on Xbox Live right now but they don't cause it's not their intentions.

For sales and cheap prices to be effective, a certain amount of people needs to use the marketplace first. It's not MS who decides the price themselves. Publishers get the majority of the money. Steam didn't have cheap a** games until they had millions buying software through them.

SharpGreen said,

Yea you can. Just not at the same time you are. It's called sharing an account. There is no time limit.

This is against Steam's TOS. If you're doing this, your account (and all the games on it) can be banned.

" When you complete Steam's registration process, you create a Steam account ("Account"). Your Account may also include billing information you provide to us for the purchase of Subscriptions. You are solely responsible for all activity on your Account and for the security of your computer system. You may not reveal, share or otherwise allow others to use your password or Account. You agree that you are personally responsible for the use of your password and Account and for all of the communication and activity on Steam that results from use of your login name and password. You may not sell or charge others for the right to use your Account, or otherwise transfer your Account. "

Source: http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/english/

SharpGreen said,

Yea you can. Just not at the same time you are. It's called sharing an account. There is no time limit.

A similar system could've been implemented on the xbone as well. Only allow a live account to be in use by one person at a time. Which I'd bet is already done in addition to the timed check.


Yes, let's give away our accounts to our friends and someone will have some maphack/wallhack/aimbot and my account will get banned. Nice!

Oh and not to mention ****ing up my matchmaking rating...

PS: It is also against Steam ToS.

Crimson Rain said,

Yes, let's give away our accounts to our friends and someone will have some maphack/wallhack/aimbot and my account will get banned. Nice!

Oh and not to mention ****ing up my matchmaking rating...

PS: It is also against Steam ToS.

And yet quite a few people still do it anyway...and haven't gotten banned. Imagine that.

SharpGreen said,

And yet quite a few people still do it anyway...and haven't gotten banned. Imagine that.


That's a bad attitude. People cheat too and doesn't get banned. Imagine that. Bad people attack countries and does not always get caught. The fact that not everyone are getting caught/banned doesn't make it right, does it?

SharpGreen said,

Same here. But I think if they were trying to emulate steam, then they wouldn't have had the 24hr check. After the initial login to a steam account you are no longer required to be online to play an installed game.

doesn't steam have a 30day check? I thought I read they do somewhere.
I think the reason for that is that you can't sell/trade back the content.

ctrl_alt_delete said,

doesn't steam have a 30day check? I thought I read they do somewhere.
I think the reason for that is that you can't sell/trade back the content.

I think it's 2 weeks.

ANyway i'm fine with 2 weeks or 30 days. But 24 hours is really not enough to me. I need 2 weeks at the minimum for when i go to my cottage.

I agree, here in Aus, the MS online store $50 Fable 3 before it went free, $20 brand new in store, Crysis 3 $110, $40 something brand new in store, etc except for rare sales where they become comparable but still a bit dearer and in some cases cheaper like Dark Souls $10.

Also on steam we pay US prices +/- the exchange rate, not what they or the publishers consider we should pay, and MS have been pretty clear that each country pay their own price. This is where MS needs to pay attention to the rest of the world outside of the US and understand that they are just too expensive compared to the competition. If they're going to have steam like restrictions then they need to have steam like prices, not be the dearest.

ctrl_alt_delete said,

doesn't steam have a 30day check? I thought I read they do somewhere.
I think the reason for that is that you can't sell/trade back the content.


The point is, if Valve actually cared about people sharing accounts then they would actually do something about it, and since they don't except in extreme circumstances..it doesn't really matter.

that's true but the problem is they offered Forza 5 with the same old price that is 60$ they have to start selling it with like a 40$ to make people believe this thing, and that will bring back the respect to xbox!!

SharpGreen said,

The point is, if Valve actually cared about people sharing accounts then they would actually do something about it, and since they don't except in extreme circumstances..it doesn't really matter.

That's a weird way of looking at......I mean it seems at anytime you could easily be banned for sharing your account. It wouldn't be funny if u amassed a whole $30000 in software only to be banned and lose all that because you thought valve doesn't care if you share account.

Anyway, that's all on you.