Apple CEO Tim Cook slams Windows 8 again

In April, as part of Apple's quarterly financial conference call, Apple CEO Tim Cook took some time to be highly critical of Microsoft and Windows 8. In particular, Cook said that Apple would not launch a hybrid notebook-tablet product, which is something that some PC makers are attempting to do with Windows 8.

On Tuesday, as part of an on stage interview at The Wall Street Journal's D10 conference, Cook took some time to take on the Windows 8 hybrid model once again. When asked what's wrong with that kind of approach, Cook said, "In my view, the tablet and the PC are different. You can do things with the tablet if you are not encumbered by the legacy of the PC."

While Cook said someone might be able to merge the notebook and tablet, Apple won't be the company to do it. Cook stated, "If you merge the two, the PC isn’t as good as it can be; nor is the tablet."

The subject of Windows 8 was only one of many subjects brought up during Cook's D10 appearance. In mid-June, Cook will likely be addressing the attendees of Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference with a number of new announcements. When ask what will be revealed at WWDC, Cook said, "That’s a great question. I’m not going to answer it."

Source: AllThingsD.com

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Cook stated, "If you merge the two, the PC isn't as good as it can be; nor is the tablet."

If that apply why its mac osx its getting dumb down with "IOS feature"

first of all,its not a ****in hybrid model. the win32 environment is basically an application that gives you the choice to run your win32 apps. since the shift is now to metro,they are giving you that option. when you turn on your pc,you start in metro. you run all your apps in metro. if you need win32 stuff,you click the desktop and its like switching to an app.

and what people are failing to realize is, that once all the popular apps are ported to metro,then there will be no more use for win32,and microsoft can just scrap it in the next version.

seriously,some people are just human trolls. we've been hearing it for years about how when is microsoft going to ditch that old and ugly win32, and when are they going to innovate. now they did just that,they are scrapping the old,and beginning a new model in computing. and the trolls have come out and are saying the opposite now? you guys must be ****in pathetic.

and what do you expect tim cook to say? oh yeah they are going to kick even more ass? hes shaking in his boots that his cash cow will dwindle soon.

OSX kinda does have a touch interface. ok so you have to use a trackpad but thats not a real big leap from touch screening in many ways.

I'd be that the touchpad was made in mind to capture the feel of swiping, clicking et all that you do on all smartphones these dats.

I dont see touch screen pcs working as they are now. At this moment Im sat back a couple of feet from the screen with my mouse and i'd certainly not be up for the ergonomic excersise of reaching all that way each and every time I wanted to interact with the screen.

coming BACK on topic. Cook didnt SLAM windows 8 again, perhaps Tim Cooks Thoughts on Windows 8 etc would be more appropriate. If anyone has watched a Cook interview the man has skills better than to start "slamming" things.

Hybrid notebook-tablet is the way to go, I think.
My uncle was telling me that ever since using his iPad he had unconsciously moved his finger to tap icons on his Windows Vista laptop.

Well, its nice of Apple to leave the pie for Microsoft and Google
Hope they keep their promise.
Or having a touch-enabled Macbook be something else?
(Pretty similar to me though, lol)

brianshapiro said,

"There is no market for tablets"

True, there wasn't one for those things Bill Gates wanted to sell, and still currently there is now tablet market, there is just an iPad market...

I love intelligent debate, I really do......I love debating with people that have a different opinion than mine and back that opinion up with solid, non biased facts and experiences.

Now, after reading some of the absolutely moronic MS hating nonsense, from the utterly mind numbing putrid bile of stupid people I'm seeing more and more of on here I want to give myself a lobotomy.

Seriously folks, calm down, stop forming opinions from others, think for yourself, calm down again, see what this is all about and once again calm down - YOU MINDLESS FOOLS! AHHHHHHHHHHHH

He is saying they are not merging the two yet thats exactly what they are doing. With the launch pad and adding all their ipad and iphone apps to osx. Then coming out with the apps store for osx.

Yeah they arent merging the two.

Now that the obvious has been stated, and acknowledged. When will Apple come out with an OS (or a process) that will easily run all the Microsoft applications that run under XP and Windows-7? As of now, XP and Windows-7 laptop and desktop users are going to have to wait for Windows-9, assuming that OS will be laptop/desktop oriented. Business opportunity for Apple?

There was similar criticism when the mouse was introduced. A lot of people said that serious computer users will never use the mouse. Nowadays, we still use the keyboard for what is best, and the mouse for what is best. Windows 8 adds touch, which is best for hand held usage. The ipad is selling lots of external keyboards and people wouldn't be giving them to toddlers to play with if they could use them for productivity. Office for iPad will sell like hotcakes. Tim Cook has no idea how wrong he is.

He has to talk bad about it so in 5 years when they do it they can call it revolutionary. I think that W8 is really good. I like being able to switch when and how I choose. Some days I stay in desktop and never leave until I shut down, others I stay in Metro. I may do a video to see how my work changes from W7 to W8.

pwgarner said,
He has to talk bad about it so in 5 years when they do it they can call it revolutionary. I think that W8 is really good. I like being able to switch when and how I choose. Some days I stay in desktop and never leave until I shut down,

Unless you need to open another program and you did not pin it to the taskbar..................
The real "Tablet revolution" was the one BG envisioned: using a Tablet as a pad and handwriting everywhere..............................

Win8 Convertibles will be the device that take the "I" out of the product name, because Windows users are not IDIOTS, they actually know how to use their devices, and don't need to go out the back door and in through the front door every time they want to do something.

This will be an OS for us people that actually know how computers work and can use them effectively. And even Grandma will be able to slide in there to check her email without getting lost. Bring it on MS and lets restore order to this digital universe.

jimmyfal said,
Win8 Convertibles will be the device that take the "I" out of the product name, because Windows users are not IDIOTS, they actually know how to use their devices, and don't need to go out the back door and in through the front door every time they want to do something.

This will be an OS for us people that actually know how computers work and can use them effectively. And even Grandma will be able to slide in there to check her email without getting lost. Bring it on MS and lets restore order to this digital universe.


Well said.

I don't think Tim Cook's comment was that bad, at least not "slamming", or as bad as when Steve Jobs was at his worst bullying (he was a bully) but at the same time, Tim needs to shut his pie hole.

Of course, it doesn't help that Apple evangelist Mossberg egged on Cook to say something about Microsoft.

Cook is so afraid of Windows 8, of course he is going say everything bad about Windows 8, here is Apple's slogan, don't worry it's ok if you can't afford to take care of your kids, buy an iphone it will make you feel better, and oh by the way buy one of our overpriced and overhyped laptops. Possession of an iphone is the new definition of being poor.

Forcing Metro on desktop PC's is the most stupid decision Microsoft ever made. Tablets? It's great. Hybrid laptop/tablets? It's great. But why on earth would you force Metro on desktop PC's which have big screens and no touch? It doesn't make any sense at all. The UI is just not made for a keyboard/mouse, and it's a handicaped experience. The apps are also clearly not made with desktops in mind which makes them useless.

Microsoft is choosing the wrong direction

Mountain Lion uses some very useful iOS elements which is a much different approach. Microsoft should just embrace the fact that a desktop is different. Would be great to have a new cool Metro style, with windowed Metro apps, with the option to go fullscreen. Just integrate tiles on the desktop, like widgets, but keep the tasbkar and a form of the startmenu.

They could do much more when they see the platform as independent. Hopefully they see the light with Windows 9.

Dannydeman said,
Forcing Metro on desktop PC's is the most stupid decision Microsoft ever made. Tablets? It's great. Hybrid laptop/tablets? It's great. But why on earth would you force Metro on desktop PC's which have big screens and no touch? It doesn't make any sense at all. The UI is just not made for a keyboard/mouse, and it's a handicaped experience. The apps are also clearly not made with desktops in mind which makes them useless.

Microsoft is choosing the wrong direction

Mountain Lion uses some very useful iOS elements which is a much different approach. Microsoft should just embrace the fact that a desktop is different. Would be great to have a new cool Metro style, with windowed Metro apps, with the option to go fullscreen. Just integrate tiles on the desktop, like widgets, but keep the tasbkar and a form of the startmenu.

They could do much more when they see the platform as independent. Hopefully they see the light with Windows 9.


Cool story, bro.

Dannydeman said,
The apps are also clearly not made with desktops in mind which makes them useless.

At the moment, it seems like the apps are touch-focused. That will change somewhat, but not entirely. But you know what? That's not a bad thing. You don't have to use Metro apps on desktop computers. That's a personal decision. Stick with desktop apps. The only metro you have to see occasionally is the start screen, and that works very well with the keyboard and mouse.

It's like saying "water isn't good for PC!"... well, why did you pour it on your PC then? Nobody told you to.

Dannydeman said,
Forcing Metro on desktop PC's is the most stupid decision Microsoft ever made. Tablets? It's great. Hybrid laptop/tablets? It's great. But why on earth would you force Metro on desktop PC's which have big screens and no touch? It doesn't make any sense at all. The UI is just not made for a keyboard/mouse, and it's a handicaped experience. The apps are also clearly not made with desktops in mind which makes them useless.
.

I largely agree with this statement and it will take all the lessons learned from Win 8 to create Win 9. We are stuck with what they are going to give us on Friday. I am as anxious or more to see the lessons we learn from Win 8's forced interface and the lessons they learn as well. I would not have done it this way, but after using it for quite some time I am comforable, but have a lot of the same feelings about it as you state. I have to wait until this fall to really pass judgement. I love the phone, I like the Xbox and Win 8 is new different, incomplete and a little nerv-racking. If they (all the Win8 devices) can all play nicely together this fall, that will go a LONG way toward me accepting what is being shoved down my throat at the moment. I'm ready for friday. I'm also ready for when were expecting it Friday and probably wont' be getting it till next week.

He, who is not afraid doesn't mention his enemy. He who is afraid always has his enemy in his words and Tim has Microsoft Windows 8 on his mouth, I wonder why?

I think he's somewhat afraid. Microsoft is acting very bold now and he's (Tim Cook) is losing the innovation war at the moment. The sleeping giant has awoken.

Once again, windows 8 need to tear down between touch and non-touch OS! Don't mix them together unless all of the monitor are planing to include touch feature..disable metro for desktop to save more memory and speed up thing as well.. what are they thinking?? Seriously!

Oh no, Cook is now "afraid of change" or "a retard" or just pick one of the countless insults that some of the neowin MS fanboys have in store for anyone who dares to think anything even remotely negative about windows 8.

I don't really care for Apple, but Tim Cook is right; Windows 8 is trying to have a 'one-size fits all' approach with Windows 8, and it's just not that great an idea. But I'll save final judgment for when the RP comes out.

I'm a long-time, harcore Windows user. (Since 3.11)... but this time I gotta agree with Tim Cook... Windows 8 is a frankeinstein OS. It doesn't work.

myxomatosis said,
I'm a long-time, harcore Windows user. (Since 3.11)... but this time I gotta agree with Tim Cook... Windows 8 is a frankeinstein OS. It doesn't work.

Too funny. Windows 3.1 wasn't a real OS. You had to type "win" from the DOS shell or mod your autoexec.bat to run it.

Have been using Windows since Windows 95, but Windows 8 is the first OS that I am NOT looking forward to.

Another Frankenstein OS...same as Win 3.11 but MSFT just place the win command as default in the startup routines.

But don't look back because both OS were a total SUCCESS !

These kiddies posts are too funny.

Ricardo Dawkins said,

Too funny. Windows 3.1 wasn't a real OS. You had to type "win" from the DOS shell or mod your autoexec.bat to run it.

Were you around at the time? Did you use Xtree Gold or Norton Commander? Win 3.1 was a big change at the time..................

Fritzly said,

Were you around at the time? Did you use Xtree Gold or Norton Commander? Win 3.1 was a big change at the time..................


I dont know ...perhaps using both Frankenstein OS like most people in the world around that time?

I still remember back in the day trying to play some DOS games on Windows 95...you had to both the machine with special autoexec and config files because the games could not run under Windows. or trying to run WordPerfect 6.0 in graphics mode...

and these two fools above me talk about Frankestein OS's that doesn't work when both WINDOWS 3.11 & WINDOWS 95 WERE SUCCESSFUL !!!

Ricardo Dawkins said,

I dont know ...perhaps using both Frankenstein OS like most people in the world around that time?

I still remember back in the day trying to play some DOS games on Windows 95...you had to both the machine with special autoexec and config files because the games could not run under Windows. or trying to run WordPerfect 6.0 in graphics mode...

and these two fools above me talk about Frankestein OS's that doesn't work when both WINDOWS 3.11 & WINDOWS 95 WERE SUCCESSFUL !!!

Well I was there and I remember playing with lower and upper memory to be able to load programs but........... do not trash those times and the programs used then:
The computers on the LEM that landed on the Moon had less memory than your phone today.............................

Ricardo Dawkins said,

I dont know ...perhaps using both Frankenstein OS like most people in the world around that time?

I still remember back in the day trying to play some DOS games on Windows 95...you had to both the machine with special autoexec and config files because the games could not run under Windows. or trying to run WordPerfect 6.0 in graphics mode...

and these two fools above me talk about Frankestein OS's that doesn't work when both WINDOWS 3.11 & WINDOWS 95 WERE SUCCESSFUL !!!

They're obviously not using the term in the same context, calm down.

You used a computer before XP was released, big whoop. So did I and countless other millions.

Athernar said,

They're obviously not using the term in the same context, calm down.

You used a computer before XP was released, big whoop. So did I and countless other millions.


Windows 3.11 wasn't an OS. You had to run DOS (notice the OS part) to start the GUI.
Windows 95 was the same as Windows 3.x
Both were Successful OS. So, Frankenstein OS do work.

Win 3.1 was a big change at the time..................

A big change would have been OS/2 which was a full GUI pre-emptive multitasking OS.

Well I was there and I remember playing with lower and upper memory to be able to load programs but........... do not trash those times and the programs used then:
The computers on the LEM that landed on the Moon had less memory than your phone today.............................

uh ??? We are talking about the success of the legacy Frankenstein OSs called Windows 3.x & Windows 95. Thanks for playing anyway

Ricardo Dawkins said,

Windows 3.11 wasn't an OS. You had to run DOS (notice the OS part) to start the GUI.
Windows 95 was the same as Windows 3.x
Both were Successful OS. So, Frankenstein OS do work.

Do try and read what you're responding to. It has nothing to do with what is being said.

I love people who say s*it like "I love Windows but lately I think I should go OS X or something else because of Windows 8"

Seriously, all of you who say stuff like that please take a hike to OSX camp and stay there. We don't care, I don't like Windows 8, doubt I'll use it but I'll stay on Windows 7 and sit out until the next Windows.

Do you really think that a thousand or maybe tens of thousands of people who leave Windows, just because of Windows 8, will hurt Windows ~80% marketshare? "Year of the mac" all over again. Geez.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
I love people who say s*it like "I love Windows but lately I think I should go OS X or something else because of Windows 8"

Seriously, all of you who say stuff like that please take a hike to OSX camp and stay there. We don't care, I don't like Windows 8, doubt I'll use it but I'll stay on Windows 7 and sit out until the next Windows.

Do you really think that a thousand or maybe tens of thousands of people who leave Windows, just because of Windows 8, will hurt Windows ~80% marketshare? "Year of the mac" all over again. Geez.

u mad br0?

Many people leave Windows world, not because Windows 8 is bad. Of course, they could continue happily with Windows 7. But some people are pi55ed off with the attitude Microsoft is displaying (not listening to you - customers, we do what we want, now buy it or die). Just read their Windows 8 developement blog, it's full or angry comments, but they didn't even bother to reply them... not a single one.

Says the man whose company is constantly adding smartphone features to their PC OS.

What was he saying during the "Back to the Mac" [from iOS] type events?

Subhadip said,
Says the man whose company is constantly adding smartphone features to their PC OS.

What was he saying during the "Back to the Mac" [from iOS] type events?

He is not talking about software he is talking about hardware, ie; laptop with detachable touchscreen

I think he's right. While I'm looking forward to Windows 8 I think it's a bad idea to megre the tablet space with the PC space and MS's last attempts at this proved the point.

And he's partially right. Windows 8 does not give you a good PC experience. It's what majority of Windows users are saying except the fanboys. And MS isn't brave enough to release only Windows RT minus the legacy desktop as the *only* tablet product so they have tied their "successful" Windows desktop to it as "Windows 8". There should have been no Windows 8, only Windows RT for tablets. And then for PCs, a separate Windows 7-like OS released which is optimized for mouse and keyboard and non-touch screens. By forcing their tablet OS on ALL Windows PC customers, they want to create an instant market for their App Store.

The shameful part is Apple is talking about the "PC's legacy" and not Microsoft which doesn't care or the UX team has gone bonkers.

Edited by UXGaurav, May 30 2012, 7:22am :

xpclient said,
And he's partially right. Windows 8 does not give you a good PC experience. It's what majority of Windows users are saying except the fanboys. And MS isn't brave enough to release only Windows RT minus the legacy desktop as the *only* tablet product so they have tied their "successful" Windows desktop to it as "Windows 8". There should have been no Windows 8, only Windows RT for tablets. And then for PCs, a separate Windows 7-like OS released which is optimized for mouse and keyboard and non-touch screens. By forcing their tablet OS on ALL Windows PC customers, they want to create an instant market for their App Store.

The shameful part is Apple is talking about the "PC's legacy" and not Microsoft which doesn't care or the UX team has gone bonkers.

Please - Microsoft has *tried* the *separate product for tablets* - have we forgotten XP Tablet PC Edition? It was, if anything, a bigger bomb than Vista.

The Store in Windows 8, while currently (and this is something we seem to dismiss) weighted entirely toward WinRT, will not, in any way/shape/form, be WinRT only. There will be Win32 applications in the Store (and non-Microsoft Win32 applications in the Store). One thing I would have liked to have seen in the Store *this year* would have been tax-preparation software (especially some of the free or nearly-free tax-prep software, such as TaxSlayer). I'm hoping to see such software next year.

However, why the Store? If done right (similar to, but better than, Apple's own approach with the AppStore), the Store for Windows could be that *trusted* (in terms of security and safety) place for software - commercial or otherwise. (Surprisingly, that is something that Windows still lacks, despite MANY attempts, such as Steam - there are still developers that want no part of Steam, despite advantages up the wazoo.)

Lastly - the anti-convergence opinion. Believe it or not, and as much as we've been Pharonic about it, we as users are DRIVING the convergence. We share files of all sorts among our devices (I'm talking those that share strictly among their own devices - not those that share via P2P or even over a LAN) - and then we gripe when OS A can't read file from device B. In order to ameliorate that, OS-feature convergence *has* to happen to some extent, if for no other reason that operating systems can share data. Also, hardware features are fast moving from device-specific to device-agnostic. (Here's a rather *left field* possibility - "Gorilla Glass" on touch-screen desktop monitors. And before you say the dreaded I word - impossible - how long did "Gorilla glass" originally sit in Kentucky? Now it's gone from display doormat to display darling. Large-screen - larger than 24" by far - Gorilla-glass panels are already being made - today. HP - and now Dell - have 24" touch-screen displays - and not just for own-brand PCs. In trying to stop convergence, we'd be in the position of poor Canute and his broom vs. the sea - the ne plus ultra of poor field position. Steve Ballmer no more wants to get swamped than Tim Cook. However, give Ballmer credit - he is, at least, quite honest about it.)

Fanboys? I run Win32 applications and games on the Consumer Preview (which, by the by, I run on a desktop, with a keyboard and mouse). So far, I haven't found a WinRT application that has successfully been able to displace the Win32 application I normally use. The very fact that I can migrate when I find something worth migrating to (in terms of WinRT) and NOT leave what I have been using is monstrous - it's not *all in for users*, as much as you wish it were otherwise. In other words, Microsoft is leaving the choice up to us.

What in the name of Harlan Sanders is wrong with that?

xpclient said,
And he's partially right. Windows 8 does not give you a good PC experience. It's what majority of Windows users are saying except the fanboys. And MS isn't brave enough to release only Windows RT minus the legacy desktop as the *only* tablet product so they have tied their "successful" Windows desktop to it as "Windows 8". There should have been no Windows 8, only Windows RT for tablets. And then for PCs, a separate Windows 7-like OS released which is optimized for mouse and keyboard and non-touch screens. By forcing their tablet OS on ALL Windows PC customers, they want to create an instant market for their App Store.

The shameful part is Apple is talking about the "PC's legacy" and not Microsoft which doesn't care or the UX team has gone bonkers.


Your legacy desktop is there, fool. oh wait...you just got the best legacy OS in the world right now in Windows XP... it can run DOS, Win16, Win32 and 64 bits programs with ease...

heck..we still run it at the office....

Spot on, couldn't agree more. Ignore the fanboys, there are many people here on Neowin which follow blindly MS or are working for MS. They simply can't accept the fact that MS has just botched it with Windows 8 on regular PCs.

xpclient said,
And he's partially right. Windows 8 does not give you a good PC experience. It's what majority of Windows users are saying except the fanboys. And MS isn't brave enough to release only Windows RT minus the legacy desktop as the *only* tablet product so they have tied their "successful" Windows desktop to it as "Windows 8". There should have been no Windows 8, only Windows RT for tablets. And then for PCs, a separate Windows 7-like OS released which is optimized for mouse and keyboard and non-touch screens. By forcing their tablet OS on ALL Windows PC customers, they want to create an instant market for their App Store.

The shameful part is Apple is talking about the "PC's legacy" and not Microsoft which doesn't care or the UX team has gone bonkers.

Have you even used WIndows 8? Metro works just the same with keyboard and mice as Windows 7 does. That hasn't changed.

PGHammer said,

Please - Microsoft has *tried* the *separate product for tablets* - have we forgotten XP Tablet PC Edition? It was, if anything, a bigger bomb than Vista.

How was the tablet edition a separate product? It was a SKU that featured a few small changes! MS NEVER tried to create a dedicated product for tablets!
Now they're yet again trying to push the full-scale Windows onto a tablet, only difference to the past attempts being that instead of sacrificing the tablet UI they're sacrificing the desktop UI for this latest attempt!

MFH said,

How was the tablet edition a separate product? It was a SKU that featured a few small changes! MS NEVER tried to create a dedicated product for tablets!
Now they're yet again trying to push the full-scale Windows onto a tablet, only difference to the past attempts being that instead of sacrificing the tablet UI they're sacrificing the desktop UI for this latest attempt!

What? How? The desktop is still there!

PGHammer said,

Please - Microsoft has *tried* the *separate product for tablets* - have we forgotten XP Tablet PC Edition? It was, if anything, a bigger bomb than Vista.

Your horrifically overbloated argument (You would make a good writer for the Metal Gear Solid franchise) falls apart when you tug out the false premise it's based on.

You immediately assume that previous tablet SKUs failed simply because of the fact they were a seperate SKU. Blindly ignoring the evolution of technology (Smaller tablets) and the approach to the software environment. (Slapping desktop Windows on a tablet and expecting it to work)

I almost wonder if this oversight is intentional, since in terms of software the exact same problem the caused the downfall of XP-era tablets is what is facing 8 today - shoving a UI principally designed for another form factor onto another. The cognitive dissonance must be painful.

simrat said,
Replace Tim with ballmer and you will have over 9000 comments bi*ching about why MS will doom.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

They hold wildly different opinions of how a desktop OS aimed for 2013 should work. So obviously, there are two camps here.

For Apple news like this, we usually get the Microsoft defenders and how they don't care and how Apple talks crap, how they are hypocrites, overpriced, etc.

For MS news, we often get Ballmer hate, how there's doom, how MS is wrong, cheap, etc.

Edited by Northgrove, May 30 2012, 9:14am :

Tim Cook needs top stop talking ****. Not because I hate Apple but because I love Apple -- and Mac OS 10.7 was garbage, and 10.8 is shaping up to be garbage as well.

Fry said,
Tim Cook needs top stop talking ****. Not because I hate Apple but because I love Apple -- and Mac OS 10.7 was garbage, and 10.8 is shaping up to be garbage as well.

exactly!. He needs to focus on OSX before he points at windows 8.
I mean the upgrades are like. . . new apps? or such... A few features. and that's it.

The OSX look is getting tired.. iOS style apps are taking over OSX and he is talking about hybrids? They released those touch pads and stuff to go with their iMacs.

A hybrid transformer like device will work wonders. If its like an ultrabook with extra battery in the keyboard docking, it will be better than an iPad or a laptop!

Zain Adeel said,

exactly!. He needs to focus on OSX before he points at windows 8.
I mean the upgrades are like. . . new apps? or such... A few features. and that's it.

The OSX look is getting tired.. iOS style apps are taking over OSX and he is talking about hybrids? They released those touch pads and stuff to go with their iMacs.

A hybrid transformer like device will work wonders. If its like an ultrabook with extra battery in the keyboard docking, it will be better than an iPad or a laptop!

best of both worlds. really excited for the IdeaPad Yoga to come out.
my 2009 MacBook is suffering running 10.7.3. doesn't seem to handle all this extra junk. maybe it might handle Mountain Lion better.

Fry said,
Tim Cook needs top stop talking ****. Not because I hate Apple but because I love Apple -- and Mac OS 10.7 was garbage, and 10.8 is shaping up to be garbage as well.

I think he handled that question with tact and grace. He didn't say anything truly negative or snide. It's just not the direction his company is going to take, and he explained why. Just the facts.

It's true though. Productivity flow in the previews of 8 are broken on the desktop.

The change to metro is jarring and interaction between the apps on desktop/metro is broken. Drag and drop something between the two for example.

Septimus said,
It's true though. Productivity flow in the previews of 8 are broken on the desktop.

The change to metro is jarring and interaction between the apps on desktop/metro is broken. Drag and drop something between the two for example.

Unless you want to jump between a desktop win32 app and a metro winrt app for your "work" then I don't really see how "productivity flow" is broken on the desktop? People say this often but the start screen is there to start apps, at it's base. If all you do is work with desktop apps then the apps, once opened from the start screen, unless pinned to the taskbar, act and work just the same as they do on the Win7 desktop.

Once I have all my desktop apps up and running I have no need to dive into the start screen, unless I forgot to open some app. So how is my work flow broken? I'm on the desktop and using it just the same as I use it on Win7, my apps are open and windowed and I'm mousing between them or using alt+tab etc. Does bringing up the start screen for a few seconds to open an app or search for it and then open it really "break" your work flow? I mean, come on, it's a few seconds. I think this "issue" has been grossly exaggerated.

Septimus said,
It's true though. Productivity flow in the previews of 8 are broken on the desktop.

The change to metro is jarring and interaction between the apps on desktop/metro is broken. Drag and drop something between the two for example.

why you want to drag and drop between desktop and metro? I mean literally: why would you want to do that?

Morden said,

why you want to drag and drop between desktop and metro? I mean literally: why would you want to do that?


to add files in playlist or open file with metro app.

х.iso said,

to add files in playlist or open file with metro app.

I can open files with metro app... and if I want to open it WITH SOMETHING ELSE on the desktop THAN I drag and drop or "open with"

Morden said,

why you want to drag and drop between desktop and metro? I mean literally: why would you want to do that?


To move information between two environments in the same operating system?

Why you would NOT want to do this is a much better question.

OK, let's say you run Microsoft Office 2014 or whatever. Let's say you want to upload a document to the cloud. You have a damn awesome cloud client in Metro. Drag the Office document to the cloud app and ... NO IT'S UNFORTUNATELY BROKEN. Stop signs everywhere.

Drag a photo you have organized in Explorer (which doesn't exist in Metro, so you have to use Desktop) to a great Facebook app in Metro to upload it there, and NOPE. Computer says no! Sorry! Not as flexible as in 1995 anymore! You have to browse to the files in each respective Metro app, i.e. better just find the photo once again although you already had it pointed out in Explorer.

It's ****ing idiotic and mind boggling and everything bad there is because Microsoft is actively MARKETING this is a coherent whole! It's not! They're treating Windows 8 like two operating systems packaged into one!

This is one example of many. Microsoft fans tend to treat Apple fans as under some sort of "reality distortion field", and now it finally sinks in how these Microsoft fans must feel. I just don't get it. Don't you understand!?

Edited by Northgrove, May 30 2012, 9:04am :

Northgrove said,

To move information between two environments in the same operating system?

Why you would NOT want to do this is a much better question.

OK, let's say you run Microsoft Office 2014 or whatever. Let's say you want to upload a document to the cloud. You have a damn awesome cloud client in Metro. Drag the Office document to the cloud app and ... NO IT'S UNFORTUNATELY BROKEN. Stop signs everywhere.

Drag a photo you have organized in Explorer (which doesn't exist in Metro, so you have to use Desktop) to a great Facebook app in Metro to upload it there, and NOPE. Computer says no! Sorry! Not as flexible as in 1995 anymore! You have to browse to the files in each respective Metro app, i.e. better just find the photo once again although you already had it pointed out in Explorer.

It's ****ing idiotic and mind boggling and everything bad there is because Microsoft is actively MARKETING this is a coherent whole! It's not! They're treating Windows 8 like two operating systems packaged into one!

This is one example of many. Microsoft fans tend to treat Apple fans as under some sort of "reality distortion field", and now it finally sinks in how these Microsoft fans must feel. I just don't get it. Don't you understand!?

problem is, all these apps, software and activities which you describe are completely imaginary ATM - if drag&drop existed between metro and desktop you still would not be able to do any of this, so spare the complaint when W8 is actually out as an RTM

but just for the sake of the argument - why would I need two applications for upload a document to skydrive? why would I need two applications to upload a photo to facebook? these are doable things right now (and not even W8 specific things)

I understand your concern for being unable to exchange content between the two "parts" but the actual examples are just bullcrap… and do not forget, all of W8's apps are previews JUST LIKE THE WHOLE DAMN OS

this OS is the biggest leap since Vista for Microsoft (to be honest it's uncomparably bigger), it's NOT just a vNext where some interface got polished and all the major changes are under the hood - so cut some slack for MS and WAIT until you see the final product and can tell the actual features from the missing ones... please

Northgrove said,

To move information between two environments in the same operating system?

Why you would NOT want to do this is a much better question.

OK, let's say you run Microsoft Office 2014 or whatever. Let's say you want to upload a document to the cloud. You have a damn awesome cloud client in Metro. Drag the Office document to the cloud app and ... NO IT'S UNFORTUNATELY BROKEN. Stop signs everywhere.

Drag a photo you have organized in Explorer (which doesn't exist in Metro, so you have to use Desktop) to a great Facebook app in Metro to upload it there, and NOPE. Computer says no! Sorry! Not as flexible as in 1995 anymore! You have to browse to the files in each respective Metro app, i.e. better just find the photo once again although you already had it pointed out in Explorer.

It's ****ing idiotic and mind boggling and everything bad there is because Microsoft is actively MARKETING this is a coherent whole! It's not! They're treating Windows 8 like two operating systems packaged into one!

This is one example of many. Microsoft fans tend to treat Apple fans as under some sort of "reality distortion field", and now it finally sinks in how these Microsoft fans must feel. I just don't get it. Don't you understand!?

the scenario you're describing sound ripe for the Share charm. i believe that's what it's built for. have you tried using that approach?

Septimus said,
It's true though. Productivity flow in the previews of 8 are broken on the desktop.

The change to metro is jarring and interaction between the apps on desktop/metro is broken. Drag and drop something between the two for example.

"jarring"? you have no better word to describe it than what the bloggers use? you have no words of your own? sounds like you're just regurgitating what they said. at least have your own opinion about a product whether you've used it or not.

@Septimus @Northgrove
The funny thing is that most normal Windows (read Joe & Janes of the world) user never drag & drop any type of dataset between windows.

Ricardo Dawkins said,
@Septimus @Northgrove
The funny thing is that most normal Windows (read Joe & Janes of the world) user never drag & drop any type of dataset between windows.

Which World? I see people do it all the time.......

Fritzly said,

Which World? I see people do it all the time.......


Nobody in my office, house or my complete family drag and drop a photo from Windows explorer into an email. I'm the only one that does...

Nobody in my office, house or my complete family drag and drop a video or music file from Windows explorer into an WMP. I'm the only one that does...

Nobody in my office, house or my complete family drag and drop a vector from illustrator into Photoshop. I'm the only one that does...heck I'm the only one that uses both programs.

GP007 said,

Unless you want to jump between a desktop win32 app and a metro winrt app for your "work" then I don't really see how "productivity flow" is broken on the desktop? People say this often but the start screen is there to start apps, at it's base. If all you do is work with desktop apps then the apps, once opened from the start screen, unless pinned to the taskbar, act and work just the same as they do on the Win7 desktop.

Once I have all my desktop apps up and running I have no need to dive into the start screen, unless I forgot to open some app. So how is my work flow broken? I'm on the desktop and using it just the same as I use it on Win7, my apps are open and windowed and I'm mousing between them or using alt+tab etc. Does bringing up the start screen for a few seconds to open an app or search for it and then open it really "break" your work flow? I mean, come on, it's a few seconds. I think this "issue" has been grossly exaggerated.

You are just not smart enough to have a chat window open, watch a movie, do some coding while reading up on some info and then while keeping an eye on all that open something else you need. If you could do all that you would see how jarring this whole Metro thing is, you know full screen and all taking your focus away from the five things you were looking at at the same time. You are just to dumb to multitask /s

Stoffel said,

You are just not smart enough to have a chat window open, watch a movie, do some coding while reading up on some info and then while keeping an eye on all that open something else you need. If you could do all that you would see how jarring this whole Metro thing is, you know full screen and all taking your focus away from the five things you were looking at at the same time. You are just to dumb to multitask /s

you can lock a chat window on the side and watch your movie or browse... if you want to do more than switch to the desktop (where you still can use the sidebar) - stop complaining and start to learn how to use the OS - you can still do all your stuff just given a NEW option too

Stoffel said,

You are just not smart enough to have a chat window open, watch a movie, do some coding while reading up on some info and then while keeping an eye on all that open something else you need. If you could do all that you would see how jarring this whole Metro thing is, you know full screen and all taking your focus away from the five things you were looking at at the same time. You are just to dumb to multitask /s


Use the desktop...is still there.

Ricardo Dawkins said,

Use the desktop...is still there.

Think you may have missed the obvious sarcasm along with the even more obvious sarcasm tags! well done

duddit2 said,

Think you may have missed the obvious sarcasm along with the even more obvious sarcasm tags! well done

I was waiting for this one, thanks duddit2

Ricardo Dawkins said,

Nobody in my office, house or my complete family drag and drop a photo from Windows explorer into an email. I'm the only one that does...

Nobody in my office, house or my complete family drag and drop a video or music file from Windows explorer into an WMP. I'm the only one that does...

Nobody in my office, house or my complete family drag and drop a vector from illustrator into Photoshop. I'm the only one that does...heck I'm the only one that uses both programs.

I see people doing all the time but of course it does not mean that 3 billions people do. Still I am confident to bet that a very large number of people do.
Besides the point is: you do not do it, I do it........... everybody is happy........... because there is a choice.

Morden said,

you can lock a chat window on the side and watch your movie or browse... if you want to do more than switch to the desktop (where you still can use the sidebar) - stop complaining and start to learn how to use the OS - you can still do all your stuff just given a NEW option too

Is it so difficult to accept that there people who know how to use it and do not like it? Some people like Apple, other Windows and so on and on................

Morden said,

I can open files with metro app... and if I want to open it WITH SOMETHING ELSE on the desktop THAN I drag and drop or "open with"


ok, forget the file opening, there is indeed other ways around. but how do you add tracks to current playlist in metro app? especially when "add to playlist" button in explorer doesn't work for some reason. navigate through music app to find the track? don't make me laugh, given that it only shows what's in music library.
here is one more example. in current desktop Messenger and Skype client you can easily drag&drop photos and files to chat window and it's most used way to share files via messaging client. seems like for metro Messenger and Skype that wouldn't be possible and what's worse, seems like you can't drag&drop content even between metro apps. using "Share" charm for this purpose isn't always convenient.
don't misunderstand, I like Windows 8 and plan to buy hybrid tablet/laptop with it in future. and I guess I will just use desktop apps to avoid such butthurt scenarios.

Septimus said,
It's true though. Productivity flow in the previews of 8 are broken on the desktop.

The change to metro is jarring and interaction between the apps on desktop/metro is broken. Drag and drop something between the two for example.

I don't find it jarring at all. A lot of people like to parrot what they've heard others say. As for the use case of dragging and dropping between desktop and Metro apps, I doubt that would be a highly sought after flow, yet you do raise an interesting point.

Fritzly said,

I see people doing all the time but of course it does not mean that 3 billions people do. Still I am confident to bet that a very large number of people do.
Besides the point is: you do not do it, I do it........... everybody is happy........... because there is a choice.

I dont care one iota what very large number of people drag and drop datasets between windows because if we could find any studies a greater number of people don't drag & drop between windows.

Many don't like the (or lack of) features set of Windows 8 there is a CHOICE, too.

or is MSFT killing any previous Windows version because they just released the new one? are they ?

Edited by Ricardo Dawkins, May 30 2012, 7:28pm :

ctrl_alt_delete said,

"jarring"? you have no better word to describe it than what the bloggers use? you have no words of your own? sounds like you're just regurgitating what they said. at least have your own opinion about a product whether you've used it or not.

Why look for a better word when 'jarring' is a perfect way to describe it? What are your words about the experience when you move from Metro to Desktop?

Ricardo Dawkins said,

I dont care one iota what very large number of people drag and drop datasets between windows because if we could find any studies a greater number of people don't drag & drop between windows.

I see now: By your words you do not have any hard data proving that the majority of people do not perform these tasks but.................. they do not do it and, if you had such data your opinion would be confirmed.
Thank you....... enough for me.........

I really do love Windows 7 and i use to be a fan of MS, but lately its waning. Firstly, Microsoft has been pretending to be the nice guy with everything and its obviously nothing more than a patronizing act. Every single time documents are released about IP protection measures on the web guess who is on that list, Microsoft. Now with Windows 8 they are not only targetting their rightful competitor in Apple but they are trying to wrongly suffocate HTML5 technology because it represents a real step towards a hardware world that dosent need a proprietary OS to drive it. It dosent stop there, they are also trying to do this with a stupid interface that has failed on every single device they have ever tried it on and the rendition they have on Windows 8 is by far the ugliest and least useable. I think its time to jump off this sinking ship dive into the new OS - the web. PS I however do not advocate the purchase of hardware that is clearly overpriced and overrated to simply run web pages/web applications

Iridium said,
It dosent stop there, they are also trying to do this with a stupid interface that has failed on every single device they have ever tried it on and the rendition they have on Windows 8 is by far the ugliest and least useable.

Looks like that UI keep failing me and many others on our Xbox 360. /s

Every single time documents are released about IP protection measures on the web guess who is on that list, Microsoft.

Guess what? People love to pirate MSFT products even if they hate the company and their products.

Iridium said,
I really do love Windows 7 and i use to be a fan of MS, but lately its waning. Firstly, Microsoft has been pretending to be the nice guy with everything and its obviously nothing more than a patronizing act. Every single time documents are released about IP protection measures on the web guess who is on that list, Microsoft. Now with Windows 8 they are not only targetting their rightful competitor in Apple but they are trying to wrongly suffocate HTML5 technology because it represents a real step towards a hardware world that dosent need a proprietary OS to drive it. It dosent stop there, they are also trying to do this with a stupid interface that has failed on every single device they have ever tried it on and the rendition they have on Windows 8 is by far the ugliest and least useable. I think its time to jump off this sinking ship dive into the new OS - the web. PS I however do not advocate the purchase of hardware that is clearly overpriced and overrated to simply run web pages/web applications

What? Microsoft isn't just embracing HTML 5, they're sucking its d*ck! It's ridiculous how much they are trumpeting it. As for your assertion that the UI has "failed on every single device," your definition of failure might be a bit flawed. The Metro UI on Windows Phone is lauded is nearly all reviews. The devices are selling and slowly gaining traction. It's jumping the gun to call something a failure before its hardly had any time off the ground.

Melfster said,
I would also argue you can do things with hybrid PC tablets that you can't do with Phone OS upgraded to a tablet OS.

iOS was first developed for a tablet.

Also, the version that runs on iPhone and the one that runs on iPad are exactly the same.

neo1988 said,

iOS was first developed for a tablet.

Also, the version that runs on iPhone and the one that runs on iPad are exactly the same.

You forgot your sarcasm tags :-)

neo1988 said,

iOS was first developed for a tablet.


really? source? I'd never heard this, but then again I don't follow apple as closely as I maybe should be
neo1988 said,

Also, the version that runs on iPhone and the one that runs on iPad are exactly the same.

I think he was saying "upgraded" as in 'scaled up' to fit the iPad screen, not like software upgraded ;P

Matthew_Thepc said,

really? source? I'd never heard this, but then again I don't follow apple as closely as I maybe should be

Knowing that the iPad was in development long before the iPhone was released it's kinda obvious that iOS was designed for the iPad - it's even implied in the Steve Jobs biography. Furthermore Steve told the story himself on "All things D": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDvScebW0q0

"...someone might be able to merge the notebook and tablet, Apple won't be the company to do it"

...so then what is Launchpad? And "full-screen" apps? Pretty sure OS X is beginning too look eerily similar to iPad/iPhone.

bremic9188 said,
"...someone might be able to merge the notebook and tablet, Apple won't be the company to do it"

...so then what is Launchpad? And "full-screen" apps? Pretty sure OS X is beginning too look eerily similar to iPad/iPhone.

I don't think that they are talking about the software, but rather the hardware side. OSX will become more iOS like, but it will never have hardware that will be a hybrid between the two (i.e. like the transformer prime).

bremic9188 said,
"...someone might be able to merge the notebook and tablet, Apple won't be the company to do it"

...so then what is Launchpad? And "full-screen" apps? Pretty sure OS X is beginning too look eerily similar to iPad/iPhone.


Bringing over some apps and features isn't the same thing as trying to replace the interface with something tablet-oriented, and let the other take the back seat in marketing.

What on Earth does a full screen app have to do with moving to mobile devices on the desktop? Or finding your installed apps more easily in Launchpad? Yes, shared features with mobile, but I'm sure you can see the more cautious approach here compared to Microsoft and Metro.

Its funny because they have been making macbooks more and more like the ipad in small steps.. I am very confident that windows 8 is going to be fantastic as long as people develop multiple apps for different types of devices.. For example if steam made a desktop app and a tablet app.. They have to anyways for the ipad and imac so why not make 2 for windows 8

Lachlan said,
Its funny because they have been making macbooks more and more like the ipad in small steps.. I am very confident that windows 8 is going to be fantastic as long as people develop multiple apps for different types of devices.. For example if steam made a desktop app and a tablet app.. They have to anyways for the ipad and imac so why not make 2 for windows 8

I know! Mountain Lion seems to me like iOS on the Mac.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
I'm all out of f*cks to give what Apple thinks.

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure this is all Tim Coock being insecure because the competition is doing a better job. Without Steve Jobs he'll run the company into the ground in no time as he has no vision.

Well, for a change apple has got something right!. Windows 8 will suck on a desktop/laptop - you can't port a phone/tablet operating system to a desktop/laptop - they are 2 totally different types of devices.

Thief000 said,

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure this is all Tim Coock being insecure because the competition is doing a better job. Without Steve Jobs he'll run the company into the ground in no time as he has no vision.

Yeah, making a Desktop behave like a Phone and a Tablet is really a great idea...........*facepalms*

KomaWeiß said,

Yeah, making a Desktop behave like a Phone and a Tablet is really a great idea...........*facepalms*

Despite what Cook tells us, seems that Apple really likes this idea given the direction OSX is shifting since Lion. Almost all of the advertised new Mountain Lion features came right from iOS. Fullscreen windows, Launchpad, App Store, Notification Center... Macbooks are gonna be keyboard-enabled iPads in no time.

Thief000 said,

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure this is all Tim Coock being insecure because the competition is doing a better job. Without Steve Jobs he'll run the company into the ground in no time as he has no vision.

Note that Steve would outright lie when asked whether Apple was doing X, Y, or Z because he didn't want information to leak. Tim could be telling the truth or providing disinformation per the Apple playbook.

Either way, it doesn't really matter.

Ilya Bukhman said,

Despite what Cook tells us, seems that Apple really likes this idea given the direction OSX is shifting since Lion. Almost all of the advertised new Mountain Lion features came right from iOS. Fullscreen windows, Launchpad, App Store, Notification Center... Macbooks are gonna be keyboard-enabled iPads in no time.

What amazes me about statements regarding the features from iOS to Desktop the most, is that people are stupid enough to say they're features from one OS to another in the first place.

They're concepts. Having a notification centre is nothing new. It's been happening on dekstops for years ... Gmail notifier, Growl, Windows Update notifications. How is adding a notification centre an 'iOS thing' ?

Full screen windows ... I'm sorry... What?! Full screen windows is an iOS thing? Have you never used the maximise button on Windows? Have you even used Full screen mode on the Mac? When you put your mouse to the top of the screen the menu appears. Basically it's a space saver. Other apps have had this built in for many many years. Photoshop has one for starters. This is not an iOS thing. It's a useful facility.

App Stores an iOS thing? Have you not heard of Steam? You know ... the platform that came out YEARS ago. Again ... an iOS thing? Hardly.

Launchpad. Again, and iOS thing? Have you ever heard of desktop icons? It's exactly the same thing. Except it sits over your apps rather than under them. How on earth this could be regarded as an iOS thing I have no idea. Icons have been around for decades. Using them to 'launch' apps has been the standard since they were used in computing. Please ... this is getting silly.


To summarise. These features have existed in one form or another for years, if not decades in some cases. The only reason people think they're moving Mac OS to iOS is because of the styling of some of these features. Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but when does the style of an icon or a background repeating tile graphic have anything to do with these things?

People ... get over yourselves. Microsoft and Apple are making two OS's that do a great job. I've no doubt that all you blind and stupid haters will eat your words when you're loving the OS's in a year or two. You lot probably bitch about Facebook's Timeline too.

Thief000 said,

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure this is all Tim Coock being insecure because the competition is doing a better job. Without Steve Jobs he'll run the company into the ground in no time as he has no vision.

*Clap clap* for you not knowing what you're talking about...

I couldn't agree more.

Ilya Bukhman said,

Despite what Cook tells us, seems that Apple really likes this idea given the direction OSX is shifting since Lion. Almost all of the advertised new Mountain Lion features came right from iOS. Fullscreen windows, Launchpad, App Store, Notification Center... Macbooks are gonna be keyboard-enabled iPads in no time.

Spirit Dave said,

What amazes me about statements regarding the features from iOS to Desktop the most, is that people are stupid enough to say they're features from one OS to another in the first place.

They're concepts. Having a notification centre is nothing new. It's been happening on dekstops for years ... Gmail notifier, Growl, Windows Update notifications. How is adding a notification centre an 'iOS thing' ?

Full screen windows ... I'm sorry... What?! Full screen windows is an iOS thing? Have you never used the maximise button on Windows? Have you even used Full screen mode on the Mac? When you put your mouse to the top of the screen the menu appears. Basically it's a space saver. Other apps have had this built in for many many years. Photoshop has one for starters. This is not an iOS thing. It's a useful facility.

App Stores an iOS thing? Have you not heard of Steam? You know ... the platform that came out YEARS ago. Again ... an iOS thing? Hardly.

Launchpad. Again, and iOS thing? Have you ever heard of desktop icons? It's exactly the same thing. Except it sits over your apps rather than under them. How on earth this could be regarded as an iOS thing I have no idea. Icons have been around for decades. Using them to 'launch' apps has been the standard since they were used in computing. Please ... this is getting silly.


To summarise. These features have existed in one form or another for years, if not decades in some cases. The only reason people think they're moving Mac OS to iOS is because of the styling of some of these features. Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but when does the style of an icon or a background repeating tile graphic have anything to do with these things?

People ... get over yourselves. Microsoft and Apple are making two OS's that do a great job. I've no doubt that all you blind and stupid haters will eat your words when you're loving the OS's in a year or two. You lot probably bitch about Facebook's Timeline too.


In fairness, Timeline does suck...

Otherwise though I agree with your statement. Lol

KomaWeiß said,

Yeah, making a Desktop behave like a Phone and a Tablet is really a great idea...........*facepalms*

Oddly enough, I've found it to work quite well.

Spirit Dave said,

What amazes me about statements regarding the features from iOS to Desktop the most, is that people are stupid enough to say they're features from one OS to another in the first place.

They're concepts. Having a notification centre is nothing new. It's been happening on dekstops for years ... Gmail notifier, Growl, Windows Update notifications. How is adding a notification centre an 'iOS thing' ?

Full screen windows ... I'm sorry... What?! Full screen windows is an iOS thing? Have you never used the maximise button on Windows? Have you even used Full screen mode on the Mac? When you put your mouse to the top of the screen the menu appears. Basically it's a space saver. Other apps have had this built in for many many years. Photoshop has one for starters. This is not an iOS thing. It's a useful facility.

App Stores an iOS thing? Have you not heard of Steam? You know ... the platform that came out YEARS ago. Again ... an iOS thing? Hardly.

Launchpad. Again, and iOS thing? Have you ever heard of desktop icons? It's exactly the same thing. Except it sits over your apps rather than under them. How on earth this could be regarded as an iOS thing I have no idea. Icons have been around for decades. Using them to 'launch' apps has been the standard since they were used in computing. Please ... this is getting silly.


To summarise. These features have existed in one form or another for years, if not decades in some cases. The only reason people think they're moving Mac OS to iOS is because of the styling of some of these features. Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but when does the style of an icon or a background repeating tile graphic have anything to do with these things?

People ... get over yourselves. Microsoft and Apple are making two OS's that do a great job. I've no doubt that all you blind and stupid haters will eat your words when you're loving the OS's in a year or two. You lot probably bitch about Facebook's Timeline too.

I Agree ALL OF THIS. I do not hate apple but I think many people over-estimated all the "apple-things" that sometimes exist already for 10 years in another form.

Spirit Dave said,

What amazes me about statements regarding the features from iOS to Desktop the most, is that people are stupid enough to say they're features from one OS to another in the first place.

They're concepts. Having a notification centre is nothing new. It's been happening on dekstops for years ... Gmail notifier, Growl, Windows Update notifications. How is adding a notification centre an 'iOS thing' ?

Full screen windows ... I'm sorry... What?! Full screen windows is an iOS thing? Have you never used the maximise button on Windows? Have you even used Full screen mode on the Mac? When you put your mouse to the top of the screen the menu appears. Basically it's a space saver. Other apps have had this built in for many many years. Photoshop has one for starters. This is not an iOS thing. It's a useful facility.

App Stores an iOS thing? Have you not heard of Steam? You know ... the platform that came out YEARS ago. Again ... an iOS thing? Hardly.

Launchpad. Again, and iOS thing? Have you ever heard of desktop icons? It's exactly the same thing. Except it sits over your apps rather than under them. How on earth this could be regarded as an iOS thing I have no idea. Icons have been around for decades. Using them to 'launch' apps has been the standard since they were used in computing. Please ... this is getting silly.


To summarise. These features have existed in one form or another for years, if not decades in some cases. The only reason people think they're moving Mac OS to iOS is because of the styling of some of these features. Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but when does the style of an icon or a background repeating tile graphic have anything to do with these things?

People ... get over yourselves. Microsoft and Apple are making two OS's that do a great job. I've no doubt that all you blind and stupid haters will eat your words when you're loving the OS's in a year or two. You lot probably bitch about Facebook's Timeline too.

Hold on a sec. I wasn't telling you that i don't like or hate it. Actually I'm using W8 Beta on my home PC, Lion on my Macbook and my iPad is always with me, and i really like all of 'em (except Lion maybe, it's way too sluggish compared to Snow Leopard). All i was going to tell is that Apple's spokesperson is actively criticizing Microsoft on the things Apple itself was doing for some time now. There is a new app chooser screen in W8 which behaves like slightly more interactive Launchpad, they've got Metro apps which are basically fullscreen apps, there will be an AppStore alternative on Windows and that's... pretty much all. Except for minor and under-the-hood changes.
So the question is WHY is Apple actively criticizing Microsoft for doing something that Apple itself was (and will be) actively doing for quite some time?

Ilya Bukhman said,

So the question is WHY is Apple actively criticizing Microsoft for doing something that Apple itself was (and will be) actively doing for quite some time?

I didn't know Apple was working on a hybrid notebook-tablet product...

Ilya Bukhman said,

Hold on a sec. I wasn't telling you that i don't like or hate it. Actually I'm using W8 Beta on my home PC, Lion on my Macbook and my iPad is always with me, and i really like all of 'em (except Lion maybe, it's way too sluggish compared to Snow Leopard). All i was going to tell is that Apple's spokesperson is actively criticizing Microsoft on the things Apple itself was doing for some time now. There is a new app chooser screen in W8 which behaves like slightly more interactive Launchpad, they've got Metro apps which are basically fullscreen apps, there will be an AppStore alternative on Windows and that's... pretty much all. Except for minor and under-the-hood changes.
So the question is WHY is Apple actively criticizing Microsoft for doing something that Apple itself was (and will be) actively doing for quite some time?

No that's fair ... I quoted you but wasn't specifically making a point about you or your opinions.... more, I was taking something you're saying and applying it on a broad scope of people that have such strict views on these things as being bad. So I apologise for seeming to point you out, as clearly you have a better attitude to these things than most. Most here especially! hehe

quote: "In my view, the tablet and the PC are different. You can do things with the tablet if you are not encumbered by the legacy of the PC."
quote: ""If you merge the two, the PC isn't as good as it can be; nor is the tablet."

wow... this is what you call "slams windows 8"? a bit over sensitive i would say.

rippleman said,
quote: "In my view, the tablet and the PC are different. You can do things with the tablet if you are not encumbered by the legacy of the PC."
quote: ""If you merge the two, the PC isn't as good as it can be; nor is the tablet."

wow... this is what you call "slams windows 8"? a bit over sensitive i would say.

Its just another post from John, been a few like this lately

rippleman said,
quote: "In my view, the tablet and the PC are different. You can do things with the tablet if you are not encumbered by the legacy of the PC."
quote: ""If you merge the two, the PC isn't as good as it can be; nor is the tablet."

wow... this is what you call "slams windows 8"? a bit over sensitive i would say.

If Ballmer says something remotely bad about Apple, it is treated as a crime against humanity. Timmy says something remotely bad about Microsoft, how dare you slander his good name?

Toysoldier said,

Its just another post from John, been a few like this lately

not just lately, he seems to over dramatize things like this constantly

jupe said,

not just lately, he seems to over dramatize things like this constantly


Agreed. It kind of waters down the impact real news has... Lol

rippleman said,
quote: "In my view, the tablet and the PC are different. You can do things with the tablet if you are not encumbered by the legacy of the PC."
quote: ""If you merge the two, the PC isn't as good as it can be; nor is the tablet."

wow... this is what you call "slams windows 8"? a bit over sensitive i would say.

Yeah, not much of a slam. It's actually a professional answer. It looks like Apple's new leadership has something its previous did not: class.