Blizzard's Rob Pardo: Windows 8 is "not awesome" for the company

The Internet pretty much blew up when quotes from Valve's Gabe Newell got revealed to the public regarding Windows 8. Newell, speaking at a game conference in Seattle, slammed Microsoft's Windows 8, calling it "a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space."

It looks like another powerful person in the PC gaming space is also not a fan of Windows 8. Rob Pardo, the Executive Vice President at Blizzard Entertainment, used his Twitter page to state:

nice interview with Gabe Newell - "I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space* - not awesome for Blizzard either

Pardo was the lead game designer for Blizzard's World of Warcraft when it launched in 2004 and that game went on to grab over 10 million monthly subscribers; Rob is now the executive vice-president of game design for all of Blizzard's games.

Again, it's not clear as to why Newell and Pardo think that Windows 8 will be such a disaster. Newell did hint that his views about Windows 8 were part of the reason why the company has been trying to port their Steam PC game download service to the Linux platform.

Source: Rob Pardo's Twitter page

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Need more companies to come out like this, but also need them to move their Software to a different platform. Windows is old news.

I don't think Blizzard or Valve needs to fret too much; anyone who's a hardcore gamer already knows about them and will continue to go to them for the games they want.

As far as the Marketplace goes, I think most games will be geared towards casual gamers anyway, with a tiny fraction being hard-core games from EA, Microsoft, and others.

Plus the only downloadable apps will be ones that conform to Metro standards from what I recall, that need to be both mouse and touch compatible. Hard-core games are probably not going to be touch-friendly for awhile and will probably be treated as a desktop application and only have a link to their site if they choose to be in the marketplace. No cuts in profit or anything.

would love see all the microsoft fanboys mouthing off about banning battle.net and steam. that will really make my day. lmfao.

Interesting but sadly brief

I agree with people here speculating that its because of the Market place.
What else are people suppose to think ?

I know guaranteed I will NEVER ever use any market place crap from Microsoft
and i would disable and remove it (bloat) as much as possible.

Enron said,
In other news, Diablo 3 was not awesome and neither is World of Warcraft and the new battlenet.

And it just happens to fall into the same 'bin' as Windows 8, aka, definitely NOT awesome, and definitely gonna fail

scaramonga said,

And it just happens to fall into the same 'bin' as Windows 8, aka, definitely NOT awesome, and definitely gonna fail

The point I am making is rather simple - all those games work the SAME on Windows 8, or Windows 7 - or even OS X (there is an OS X Steam client, as most of us are doubtless aware). Also, guess what; there is NOT a specific Steam client for Windows 8 - it uses the same client as the last three versions of Windows (which works back to XP32). If he's worried about WinRT as an API, then he should start worrying more about iOS or Android, as both are far bigger than even Windows Phone 7.x and WinRT combined.

Northgrove said,

According to you?

According to broad reception of Diablo 3 and WoW's dwindling subscriber base.

Here's what I don't get - nothing in Windows 8 (the non-RT version) is any threat whatever to Valve or Blizzard. Steam works just fine (as does every game on my Steam account). Blizzard's games run without issues also (including Diablo III - which I played *entirely* on Windows 8 - either the Consumer Preview or the Release Preview). So why would WinRT (or Windows RT) be a threat to Valve or Blizzard? If either company truly thinks that Windows RT (or its WinRT API, which it has in common with Windows 8) is ANY sort of threat to either Steam or BattleNet 2.0, then they need to change drug suppliers, because they are getting bad product. (Yes - I'm absolutely serious.) If any non-Windows OS is a threat to Steam or Blizzard, it would be iOS (and all those iDevices that run it), more so than even Android (for now).

I play all kinds of games from all kinds of companies (including Blizzard). I don't see what the deal is. More access to more games will somehow stop people from playing games made by Blizzard Entertainment? Please.

Not great for them because of the app store (games) and XBox live built in (games). So people will have more access to games that, guess what, aren't Blizzard. Not great for them indeed. I could care less. I'd rather lots of small dev shops get the money than super huge mega shops like Blizz. I like Blizz games but it's reached critical mass and something will give.

I don't see there being any apocalyptic issues for at least 2 or 3 more years. I've been told that PC manufacturers are going to be allowed to market PCs with Win7 on it until sometime into the fall of 2014, and people with volume licensing even beyond that (2016, but memory foggy).

If Win8 doesn't prove popular (which I think will ultimately happen), options for buy Win7 PCs will be readily available for some time to come in store like Best Buy/etc. In this case, things will most likely change in favor of Steam, Activision/Blizzard, and others who may choose to comment in the future.

If Win8 does prove to be popular as well as the Store, then companies like Steam and Blizzard have a few years to change, adapt, get Linux going, or some other option. During this time, PC Gamers will have readily available options to continue buying Win7 rigs in Best Buy/etc if they so choose.

I like how Microsoft wants to add a bunch of things into Win8 such as better graphical handling, better use for multiple monitors but all this can be shoved into Win7. I would prefer not to go to Windows 8 mainly cause I just don't need it and I really feel there is no reason, nothing holding Microsoft back from putting most if not all of the extra's coming with Win8 into Win7 in a service pack.

Actually, it's not rocket science... Windows 8 just plain sucks for the majority of people. It's not about bias (boo hoo, XBOX Live competition) or something, Windows 8 is just another Vista.

Microsoft are really masterminds at creating things people do not want. Win8 is heavily criticized and it's not even released yet. For me... it's a good thing. The more companies and bosses that speak against it the more it seems my Win7 plan might work - stay with it until Win9

Honestly, I think they are being a little over-dramatic. In the same way that people saying that Mountain Lion's new "GateKeeper" is one step closer to the Mac being completely locked into the app store.

It hasn't happened yet. Just because both Apple and Microsoft are *getting with the times* and bringing online software sales to their platforms does not necessarily mean they are going to prevent others from competing.

Instead of B&Ming about Windows 8, Blizzard and Valve should be investing in the Linux platform or some independent platform. If games came to Linux in a BIG WAY, it would really help transform that platform into some real competition in the desktop space.

people are not understanding the reason for these comments. these companies are butt hurt because they know microsoft is phasing away the desktop,and the windows store is where all the software will be coming from. these guys are going to have to shell out %20 to microsoft. But what these greedy guys dont acknowledge is that the window store is bringing them more eyes and a larger audience. they feel like they are entitled to whatever they want. their free reign on the desktop is coming to an end, because microsoft has finally woken up and grown some balls to tell these companies and oems to take a hike,and if you dont like it, **** off.

Before Blizzard criticizes, they need to look at what they are doing first. They aren't doing an awesome job in keeping Diablo 3 interesting or wanting to play. And it's not like Windows 8 will make Diablo 3 more repetitive and boring then it is now. Don't get me wrong i liked the game but the lag issues a month + after launch and the changes they did hurt honest players more then anyone.

You know this is what I hate about leaving comments, and makes me less inclined to do so.....ppl who criticize others for their opinions. We're all entitled to them. Some feel they are wrong and others right. It doesn't give you the right to criticize them for it.

Tartan said,
You know this is what I hate about leaving comments, and makes me less inclined to do so.....ppl who criticize others for their opinions. We're all entitled to them. Some feel they are wrong and others right. It doesn't give you the right to criticize them for it.

Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that it is correct, criticism of an opinion in a constructive manner can help evolve those opinions, and educate the person who has it. I will agree that short comments that amount to nothing more than "LOL U DUM" do nothing to further discourse, but that is the price we must pay to get any discourse at all.
Ultimately though, a criticism of an opinion is simply an opinion of an opinion, and as we are all entitled to one, you will see them. Do your part, whenever you feel like correcting someone's misconception, or have a difference of opinion from them, do your best to explain why you think your position has merit, don't belittle or attack the person whose opinion differs from yours, but focus on what in their argument (and such) you feel is off the mark

Tartan said,
You know this is what I hate about leaving comments, and makes me less inclined to do so.....ppl who criticize others for their opinions. We're all entitled to them. Some feel they are wrong and others right. It doesn't give you the right to criticize them for it.

Sorry tartan, you are of course welcome to your opinion, just as everybody is free to disagree with those opinions. But alot of what you wrote above was not opinion, it was blatantly false statement.

funny i just replied to the comment above yours mentioning that
before i read your comment lol

the experts around here are masters at knowing what you should do and think..
just like Microsoft

I like how all the fanboy start crying when someone speaks the truth about Windows 8 and esp when others don't share the same opinion as them. Everyone is saying as is..deal with it.

MaSx said,
I like how all the fanboy start crying when someone speaks the truth about Windows 8 and esp when others don't share the same opinion as them. Everyone is saying as is..deal with it.

It's funny how gabe fanboys praise him for speaking out against windows 8 without stating a reason.

MaSx said,
I like how all the fanboy start crying when someone speaks the truth about Windows 8 and esp when others don't share the same opinion as them. Everyone is saying as is..deal with it.

I like how everybody who likes a product becomes a "fanboy". And it's opinion they are speaking, not truth. Being in charge of a gaming company doesn't magically make his opinion more important than anybody elses, especially when his opinion is clearly based on biased self interest for his company who could potentially lose out from the Windows Store in the long run. That said, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, no opinion is wrong and no opinion is right. They are just that, opinions. Windows 8 is as is..deal with it.

I agree and the differenece is people like TCLN Ryster are running around here esentialy telling people their opinions are wrong. Someone says i tried it, i hate it
and it slows down my productivity..
Then these cheerleaders start barking well your dumb and your using it wrong etc
Who the hell do these guys think they are running around the net telling people
how they should be using their computer ?

nope fail ..keep trying

It's a disaster because of the app store, and the non-support of anything that isn't part of it and raking in 30% of everyone's profits. They're unlikely to let anyone use DirectX unless they are.

Also not good for gamers, since any games made for the live platform will only be up too xbox specifications and not pc specifications....think prototype 2 being the norm and shudder.

I hope windows 8 fails miserably, because if Micro$oft doesn't learn, it will only drive ppl to linux and the like, and I can only hope that they and devlopers will take up the baton. Sometimes we need to take a step back in order to move forward again.

Much of what you're saying has no basis in reality. Microsoft would find it almost impossible to restrict DirectX applications to the Windows Store; if they tried, they would find themselves on the wrong side of court battles - restricting API access has never worked well in the past.
I'm also not sure what the Live platform has to do with limiting games. Games tend to be limited to Xbox/PS3 specifications because that is most cost-effective for cross-platform developers.

I'm not a huge fan of Windows 8 myself, but I'm not sure what lessons you are expecting Microsoft to learn?

Tartan said,
It's a disaster because of the app store, and the non-support of anything that isn't part of it and raking in 30% of everyone's profits. They're unlikely to let anyone use DirectX unless they are.

Also not good for gamers, since any games made for the live platform will only be up too xbox specifications and not pc specifications....think prototype 2 being the norm and shudder.

I hope windows 8 fails miserably, because if Micro$oft doesn't learn, it will only drive ppl to linux and the like, and I can only hope that they and devlopers will take up the baton. Sometimes we need to take a step back in order to move forward again.

Wow, did you even think about that drivel you wrote, or did you just use a random nonsense generator on the web?

Unlikely to allow games developers to use DirectX? Seriously? You do realise that there's still a desktop in Windows 8, and game development will work just as it does now, right? Metro just opens new options for "casual" type games.

Can't argue with the point about console ports. Several games recently (long before Windows 8 was announced) suffered from a sense of dumbing down because they originated from a console version. This is not a fault of Windows 8 or the live platform though, but with games developers being lazy. The live platform is just a "back-end" network infrastructure. It has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the game.

Micro$oft? What age are you, 10?

Edited by Ryster, Jul 27 2012, 4:43pm :

Tartan said,
It's a disaster because of the app store, and the non-support of anything that isn't part of it and raking in 30% of everyone's profits. They're unlikely to let anyone use DirectX unless they are.

How in the high heavens did you come up with this?

Tartan said,
It's a disaster because of the app store, and the non-support of anything that isn't part of it and raking in 30% of everyone's profits. They're unlikely to let anyone use DirectX unless they are.

Also not good for gamers, since any games made for the live platform will only be up too xbox specifications and not pc specifications....think prototype 2 being the norm and shudder.

I hope windows 8 fails miserably, because if Micro$oft doesn't learn, it will only drive ppl to linux and the like, and I can only hope that they and devlopers will take up the baton. Sometimes we need to take a step back in order to move forward again.

You can use DirectX in WinRT. It supports every programming model that previous Windows developers had access to except for Windows Forms.

They are probably afraid of the micro games like those on mobile. People didn't used to play those tiny games as much as they do now because it's easy to get and easy to pay for. They worry what these 99cent games will do to feature games like tablet sales do to PC sales.

At the same time, Diablo III is not awesome for the gamer, always on connection needed, crappy servers, cheaters galore, bugs galore and the real money store is just ...

My thought is they don't have a good reason why so they're not going to try to come up with a bad reason. Other than that the only plausible explaination, like others have said is they don't like the Windows Marketplace and these guys don't want come out and say anything derogatory about it.

sanke1 said,
Less advertising revenue

No, that's not the case, free ad supported apps are an option through the windows store. And last I heard you can even offer in-app purchasing through your metro apps, so yeah. Not an issue at all as far as ad revenue and other things go.

This is good news. maybe more "big" company joins to Valve and help with the development of Linux 3D graphics.
I must say tha is somehow, of what is happening in Android world, people are moving to open-source... and now it time to move OS to open-source also.

Fayker said,
This is good news. maybe more "big" company joins to Valve and help with the development of Linux 3D graphics.
I must say tha is somehow, of what is happening in Android world, people are moving to open-source... and now it time to move OS to open-source also.

Yeah right, because a bunch of games companies (I would rather call Valve a Digital Retail company with a secondary specialization in games though) will totally fix all the major proprietary drivers, bring OSS-drivers on-par with the blobs (with only a little hardware specification documentation) and rewrite/overhaul the Linux rendering stack...

No, I'm just hoping that they will at least generate some interest for the Linux community to somewhat improve the things I've mentioned above.

But it is silly to ask for an even split among desktop operating system, that way we'll get terrible ports across PCs (on top of the console ports, don't forget that the game studios will also have to pick which Operating Systems are likely targets) a mess of different API's and terrible drivers everywhere (optimizations, quality, feature-set).

Coolicer said,

Yeah right, because a bunch of games companies (I would rather call Valve a Digital Retail company with a secondary specialization in games though) will totally fix all the major proprietary drivers, bring OSS-drivers on-par with the blobs (with only a little hardware specification documentation) and rewrite/overhaul the Linux rendering stack...

No, I'm just hoping that they will at least generate some interest for the Linux community to somewhat improve the things I've mentioned above.

But it is silly to ask for an even split among desktop operating system, that way we'll get terrible ports across PCs (on top of the console ports, don't forget that the game studios will also have to pick which Operating Systems are likely targets) a mess of different API's and terrible drivers everywhere (optimizations, quality, feature-set).

Every company wants more profit of their products, taking Windows out-of-the-picture from being the only OS that supports AAA games and moving to open-source OS, is a hard task, but is a step for future massification of Linux OS's and future native linux games. It's all about giving the first step. Maybe in 5 years we can turn a simple rig, with livecd linux that has the game, and you get "free" plug-n-play-linux-console.
But, yet, we need that first step of badly ports of games to achieve someting more great.

Fayker said,

Every company wants more profit of their products, taking Windows out-of-the-picture from being the only OS that supports AAA games and moving to open-source OS, is a hard task, but is a step for future massification of Linux OS's and future native linux games. It's all about giving the first step. Maybe in 5 years we can turn a simple rig, with livecd linux that has the game, and you get "free" plug-n-play-linux-console.
But, yet, we need that first step of badly ports of games to achieve someting more great.

I really can't see a Linux-desktop consumer future. We have way too much software full with third-party proprietary middleware and IP (think algorithms and stuff) so in the end such a system _will_ become very much like Windows. If Linux is to become a dominant platform in consumer-space (Officially, Android isn't Linux) at some point it will stop being Linux or even being developed and licensed with the ideals it is now.

It's easier for game devs (or any other dev really) to produce for one global, highly supported OS that has every component defined properly than to a myriad of Linux distros (that all have their "own" little tweaks and differences and present a hell of a support nightmare)

Fayker said,

Every company wants more profit of their products, taking Windows out-of-the-picture from being the only OS that supports AAA games and moving to open-source OS, is a hard task, but is a step for future massification of Linux OS's and future native linux games. It's all about giving the first step. Maybe in 5 years we can turn a simple rig, with livecd linux that has the game, and you get "free" plug-n-play-linux-console.
But, yet, we need that first step of badly ports of games to achieve someting more great.

georgevella said,
It's easier for game devs (or any other dev really) to produce for one global, highly supported OS that has every component defined properly than to a myriad of Linux distros (that all have their "own" little tweaks and differences and present a hell of a support nightmare)

Well the idea is to unify most of the distros, that's what the community hopes to achieve with stuff like Steam on Linux. I for one don't bet on huge success of Steam-on-Linux but it might make a lot of Linux users move to Ubuntu or even some (only a few since there won't be many Linux ports on Steam) to remove Windows from their dual-boot systems.

Once distros realize that they are loosing their share to Ubuntu they might just make some of their software-stacks more Ubuntu like, or just simply pull them from Canonical themselves.

Why Ubuntu? Because Steam will be made to work on Ubuntu first.

Coolicer said,

Yeah right, because a bunch of games companies (I would rather call Valve a Digital Retail company with a secondary specialization in games though) will totally fix all the major proprietary drivers, bring OSS-drivers on-par with the blobs (with only a little hardware specification documentation) and rewrite/overhaul the Linux rendering stack...

They are already collaborating with Intel to improve both the drivers and the OpenGL implementation:

http://www.paranormal-entertai...:54:37Z-The_zombies_cometh/

I'd say the OP is right.

ichi said,

They are already collaborating with Intel to improve both the drivers and the OpenGL implementation:

http://www.paranormal-entertai...:54:37Z-The_zombies_cometh/

I'd say the OP is right.

You mean: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.p...ge=news_item&px=MTE0MzQ

It's not really Valve fixing or improving anything. They know where the bottlenecks are for _their_ game and now are asking Intel to optimize for it alongside some fixes in the stack maybe, but nothing major.

The whole Steam on Linux has reached massive levels of hype and wild fantasies in the Linux community.

Game publishers should not worry about Windows 8 because there customers are probably smart enough to stay with Windows 7 rather than move to that atrocity Windows 8.

Adamb10 said,
Game publishers should not worry about Windows 8 because there customers are probably smart enough to stay with Windows 7 rather than move to that atrocity Windows 8.

the problem is that... new PC comes with Windows8 and future apps and drivers goes for windows8 not 7... anda that is a problem for everyone in the industry.

Fayker said,

the problem is that... new PC comes with Windows8 and future apps and drivers goes for windows8 not 7... anda that is a problem for everyone in the industry.

Windows 7 will stick around for awhile, it's the next XP. Hardware manufacturers would be silly to not develop drivers for Windows 7. OEM's will ship Windows 8 yes, but that didn't stop Windows XP when Vista was out.

Adamb10 said,

Windows 7 will stick around for awhile, it's the next XP. Hardware manufacturers would be silly to not develop drivers for Windows 7. OEM's will ship Windows 8 yes, but that didn't stop Windows XP when Vista was out.

I agree with you, w7 will stay around for along time, but if you think about the huge publicity and market manipulation by MS in the past fews weeks. windows7 and other old OS, won't last long. MS is trying to massificate Windows8 quickly (the price is one measure for that ). Even since manufactures still release XP/Vista/7 drivers. its gonna be a problem with OS especific apps and drivers.

Adamb10 said,
Game publishers should not worry about Windows 8 because there customers are probably smart enough to stay with Windows 7 rather than move to that atrocity Windows 8.

Define what's atrocious about it then, if you can. Sure you have to re-learn a few things here and there, and make a single click of your mouse to get to desktop (or no clicks at all if you install Start 8), but it's far from atrocious. In fact it runs much faster than Windows 7 in places and the multi-monitor support is lovely. Where's the atrocity? It's certainly much better than Vista was... that OS was actually slower and had poor drivers. Windows 8 flies in that regard.

Or are you just trolling and jumping on the bandwagon of the haters? I vote for this option.

Adamb10 said,
Game publishers should not worry about Windows 8 because there customers are probably smart enough to stay with Windows 7 rather than move to that atrocity Windows 8.

Not sure if trolling or... Win8 is quite good.

TCLN Ryster said,

Define what's atrocious about it then, if you can. Sure you have to re-learn a few things here and there, and make a single click of your mouse to get to desktop (or no clicks at all if you install Start 8), but it's far from atrocious. In fact it runs much faster than Windows 7 in places and the multi-monitor support is lovely. Where's the atrocity? It's certainly much better than Vista was... that OS was actually slower and had poor drivers. Windows 8 flies in that regard.

Or are you just trolling and jumping on the bandwagon of the haters? I vote for this option.

its been explained endlessly too you and your not listening
and regardless of what side you fall on your comments
are just as troll like as anyone's

Trolling and jumping on the Windows 8 Cheerleader bandwagon? I vote for this option.

FalseAgent said,
They're scared of Xbox LIVE, that's all.

I guess they feel they are the only ones who should make money.

FalseAgent said,
They're scared of Xbox LIVE, that's all.

Most likely, but you know i actually had my money on MS offering a Steam app for the next xbox.

efjay said,

I guess they feel they are the only ones who should make money.

But why should Microsoft be making money from it? It is right than they are the only one should get the cash since is their work?

FalseAgent said,
They're scared of Xbox LIVE, that's all.

Totally looking forward on better Live integration in Windows 8. Although the stuff in the RP is quite disappointing due to region locking, nothing available, being just a Metro-Application right now. Would have liked to see it as a seamlessly integrated part of Windows. Windows "9" maybe?

tanjiajun_34 said,
But why should Microsoft be making money from it? It is right than they are the only one should get the cash since is their work?

Microsoft won't be making money for desktop apps that are listed in the Windows Store. They also don't make money off of free metro apps.

Yes, it is right for Microsoft to make money from metro apps... and it's a great deal. You get exposure and potentially higher sales, and Microsoft handles payment processing and licensing for you.

rfirth said,

Microsoft won't be making money for desktop apps that are listed in the Windows Store. They also don't make money off of free metro apps.

Yes, it is right for Microsoft to make money from metro apps... and it's a great deal. You get exposure and potentially higher sales, and Microsoft handles payment processing and licensing for you.

They also don't block the sale of free apps that offer in-app purchasing do they? Like apple does for example? They're bringing this option for developers on Windows Phone 8 so I'm going to take a guess and say it's also part of Windows 8 store as well.

If so then there is ZERO issue with the Windows store at all, valve can put up a FREE steam metro client and just sell its apps through the free client like it does on the desktop. Unless I'm wrong and MS does block that on Windows 8, but if the phone will let you do it I doubt it won't on the tablet/pc.

Blizzard sells things directly from their website... now they have to compete with the Windows Store. This is the same problem Steam/Valve has.

Shyatic said,
Blizzard sells things directly from their website... now they have to compete with the Windows Store. This is the same problem Steam/Valve has.

They can list their games on the store as desktop apps like everyone else.

Shyatic said,
Blizzard sells things directly from their website... now they have to compete with the Windows Store. This is the same problem Steam/Valve has.

The Windows store doesn't block the sale of apps that then do in app purchasing. Hell they're bringing that over to WP8 so I doubt it's not supported in Win8. Easy option, bliz or valve does a FREE client and then just sells their stuff in-app and doesn't pay MS anything. ZOMG PROBLEM SOLVED!

i dont understand. they don't have to put their software/games on the marketplace. they can simply opt to take it to the traditional desktop if they don't want to pay that 30% to microsoft. they have choices, i don't get why they're calling windows 8 catastrophic because of that....

aviator189 said,
i dont understand. they don't have to put their software/games on the marketplace.

But if they want to make their games available to Windows RT or have the greatest reach to the x86 crowd, the Windows Store is the way to go. Within a year from now, there will probably be more people using the Windows Store than have heard about Steam.

Jazirian said,

But if they want to make their games available to Windows RT or have the greatest reach to the x86 crowd, the Windows Store is the way to go. Within a year from now, there will probably be more people using the Windows Store than have heard about Steam.

WinRT is a completely different thing. I see no reason why there should be any other store available on it other than the "native" Microsoft one.

Hopefully Microsoft decides to give a choice to disable the metro start screen and have the tradional start screen or offer some customization. I really don't like how it currently works jumping between the childsih cell phone interface and the desktop.

I can work much faster with the traditional start screen. They even removed the game folder so you are left to work with a bunch of icons.

Deihmos said,
Hopefully Microsoft decides to give a choice to disable the metro start screen and have the tradional start screen or offer some customization. I really don't like how it currently works jumping between the childsih cell phone interface and the desktop.

I can work much faster with the traditional start screen. They even removed the game folder so you are left to work with a bunch of icons.

Stick with Windows 7 then.

efjay said,

Stick with Windows 7 then.

Exactly what I plan to do unless there are changes. As it is Win 8 brings no benefit to me but instead slows down how I use my computer.

Deihmos said,

Exactly what I plan to do unless there are changes. As it is Win 8 brings no benefit to me but instead slows down how I use my computer.

Please show me a video of how it slows you down. I actually see tonnes of improvements in Windows 8 desktop.

Deihmos said,
Hopefully Microsoft decides to give a choice to disable the metro start screen and have the tradional start screen or offer some customization. I really don't like how it currently works jumping between the childsih cell phone interface and the desktop.

I can work much faster with the traditional start screen. They even removed the game folder so you are left to work with a bunch of icons.

If only you could somehow group the icons on the start screen into a nice organized grouped layout, maybe even with named headers, and then you could have put the games in their own games group...

Mulsivaas said,
Please show me a video of how it slows you down. I actually see tonnes of improvements in Windows 8 desktop.
I think you misread it.... "slows down HOW I use my computer". Not slows down my computer...

Mulsivaas said,
Please show me a video of how it slows you down. I actually see tonnes of improvements in Windows 8 desktop.

I would like to see a video on how it makes things faster. If I need to search for something I click the start screen and begin typing. On win 8 I need to use a charm bar then click search which then takes me to metro start screen, search results are grouped into categories. The old method is much faster.

Also the game folder is not just about icons. It has link to updates, publisher site, and it looks decent.

Deihmos said,

Exactly what I plan to do unless there are changes. As it is Win 8 brings no benefit to me but instead slows down how I use my computer.

There is always those who refuse to adapt to new version of Windows...I know several people that still use Windows XP and office 2003 until now because they said newer Windows is difficult to use

Deihmos said,

Exactly what I plan to do unless there are changes. As it is Win 8 brings no benefit to me but instead slows down how I use my computer.

ditto.

Deihmos said,

Exactly what I plan to do unless there are changes. As it is Win 8 brings no benefit to me but instead slows down how I use my computer.

That's a bit short sighted, isn't it. All the "under-the-hood" improvements are a good reason to upgrade.

Deihmos said,

I would like to see a video on how it makes things faster. If I need to search for something I click the start screen and begin typing. On win 8 I need to use a charm bar then click search which then takes me to metro start screen, search results are grouped into categories. The old method is much faster.

Also the game folder is not just about icons. It has link to updates, publisher site, and it looks decent.

Does no one use the windows button on the keyboard?

Deihmos said,

I would like to see a video on how it makes things faster. If I need to search for something I click the start screen and begin typing. On win 8 I need to use a charm bar then click search which then takes me to metro start screen, search results are grouped into categories. The old method is much faster.

Also the game folder is not just about icons. It has link to updates, publisher site, and it looks decent.

I guess you haven't really use win 8. Win 8 is the same if not fast for what you're complaining about. In Win8, if you want to search instantly, just hit Win key>then start typing right way to search. You don't even need the mouse!

abysal said,

ditto.

I never had that opinion of Windows until Windows 8. Vista improved upon XP and 7 was also an improvement.

flexkeyboard said,

I guess you haven't really use win 8. Win 8 is the same if not fast for what you're complaining about. In Win8, if you want to search instantly, just hit Win key>then start typing right way to search. You don't even need the mouse!


I don't use keyboard shortcuts at all.

Deihmos said,

I don't use keyboard shortcuts at all.

I hope you don't consider yourself a "power user" then... Based on the observations I've made of "professionals" im an office environment and average users (I.e. Parents/grandparents)...

If they use only the mouse, they are already pretty slow so they would click on the start button then click on the search textbox then type. This functionality is still present in Windows 8, just looks different.

If you're fluent with the keyboard (like any real power user should be), you hit the Windows key and start typing, this is exactly the same in Windows 8. If you want files just hit Win + F. Looking specifically for an application, just hit Win + Q. Looking for settings? Win + W.

Anyone still whining about the new start menu "slowing down" their precious workflow is likely just too afraid, stubborn, or ignorant to adapt to change. Almost all the primary functions of the old start menu is still possible in Windows 8.

Except such organization is anathema to Metro Hawk.

Quit with the power users are keyboard shortcut users BS. You know who uses a lot of keyboard shortcuts - Mac users, cause their mice and UI suck ass.

Deihmos said,

I would like to see a video on how it makes things faster. If I need to search for something I click the start screen and begin typing. On win 8 I need to use a charm bar then click search which then takes me to metro start screen, search results are grouped into categories. The old method is much faster.

Also the game folder is not just about icons. It has link to updates, publisher site, and it looks decent.

The current start menu search is proven to be faster or the same speed, depending on your search term and if you used Win F, Win W or Win Q to search the different categories.

So full screen switch aside, your current start menu searches will generally be faster since you will search the entire index (even outlook emails). You also have full right click menu capabilities on the existing start menu., and easier copy, move, create shortcut functions.

Other than giving you more room, which you don't need since 99% of the time since you will narrow down your results to a few items, the Metro screen's only benefits are live tiles, apps, and great touch capabilities, things not everyone needs or cares for on a non mobile - non touch desktop.

Search in Metro is one of the biggest issues, full screen switching being the other. If they can fix these two issues; Windows 8 can truly be called an improvement over Windows 7. Additionally I've yet to see a tangible speed increase from The so called "under the hood enhancements" in Windows 8.

Dashel said,
Except such organization is anathema to Metro Hawk.

Quit with the power users are keyboard shortcut users BS. You know who uses a lot of keyboard shortcuts - Mac users, cause their mice and UI suck ass.

O RLY?

You obviously never used a mac then. Neither the mice OR the UI "sucks ass".
And also inb4 "Mac have one mouse button hurr durr" ..... they dont, and havent for ages

Mulsivaas said,
Please show me a video of how it slows you down. I actually see tonnes of improvements in Windows 8 desktop.

What a completely irrational request. If you can't take his word for it and move on, you need to get a life.

Chsoriano said,

I hope you don't consider yourself a "power user" then... Based on the observations I've made of "professionals" im an office environment and average users (I.e. Parents/grandparents)...

If they use only the mouse, they are already pretty slow so they would click on the start button then click on the search textbox then type. This functionality is still present in Windows 8, just looks different.

If you're fluent with the keyboard (like any real power user should be), you hit the Windows key and start typing, this is exactly the same in Windows 8. If you want files just hit Win + F. Looking specifically for an application, just hit Win + Q. Looking for settings? Win + W.

Anyone still whining about the new start menu "slowing down" their precious workflow is likely just too afraid, stubborn, or ignorant to adapt to change. Almost all the primary functions of the old start menu is still possible in Windows 8.

I think you're right about parents / grandparents working slow, so Windows 8 may in fact be a benefit, even the full screen switch, since it will force them to focus on the search at hand.

However please do not mislead people to believe that Metro's multi-category search is any faster than the current start menu search. It can in fact be slower if you do not choose the correct category. The current start menu indexes everything. Oh and you can hit the Windows key and type to search in Windows 7 as well; yes amazing I know, and all without loosing view of what your doing too, wow shocking!

I would say you are likely too blinded by the fact that Windows 8 is new and is generally a decent operating system, to notice its flaws. Please don't call others ignorant, stubborn, or afraid of change. You don't know what you're talking about in that aspect.

Stocker360 said,

O RLY?

You obviously never used a mac then. Neither the mice OR the UI "sucks ass".
And also inb4 "Mac have one mouse button hurr durr" ..... they dont, and havent for ages

Sweet! 3-way rumble going on now!

Edited by abysal, Jul 28 2012, 12:13am :

abysal said,

However please do not mislead people to believe that Metro's multi-category search is any faster than the current start menu search. It can in fact be slower if you do not choose the correct category. The current start menu indexes everything. Oh and you can hit the Windows key and type to search in Windows 7 as well; yes amazing I know, and all without loosing view of what your doing too, wow shocking!

I would say you are likely too blinded by the fact that Windows 8 is new and is generally a decent operating system, to notice its flaws. Please don't call others ignorant, stubborn, or afraid of change. You don't know what you're talking about in that aspect.


I'm not saying it is faster, but it's not any slower - just different. I've used the start menu search in Vista/7 for years (it's great). The full screen thing is somewhat unfortunate, but in reality when you go to the start menu, you are already inviting the distraction to do or "start" something else. If you're launching another application, the start menu disappears as soon as you launch your app. So no loss of speed or functionality, the whining just seems petty.

Given that Steam and WoW/Diablo 3 work fine on Windows 8, I assume their problem is with the Windows store.

Blizzard would presumably not want to give 20-30% of their box sales to Microsoft, when they already have a functioningdigital distribution channel. I also assume that a Metro version of Steam would not be allowed to act as a store-front, placing the Windows 8 Store in direct competition with Valve.

Will be interesting to see if Electronic Arts or Gamestop speak out.

Jazirian said,
Given that Steam and WoW/Diablo 3 work fine on Windows 8, I assume their problem is with the Windows store.

Blizzard would presumably not want to give 20-30% of their box sales to Microsoft, when they already have a functioningdigital distribution channel. I also assume that a Metro version of Steam would not be allowed to act as a store-front, placing the Windows 8 Store in direct competition with Valve.

Will be interesting to see if Electronic Arts or Gamestop speak out.

Bingo, and the sick part is they are scared about the future, even though Microsoft has went over the top to reassure them they have no interest in dipping into their subscription or in game microtransaction models. Additionally, the Market can be used to send people to regular stores like GameStop, or software distribution like Steam. So it isn't like they will get 'left' out if they don't want to participate in the store.

I think these companies are scared of the Windows 8 Marketplace/Store. I have been using Windows 8 since DP and obviously from a functions standpoint -- all of their games still work, nothing is changing there.

They fear that Microsoft will try to only allow programs sold via Windows 8 App Store.

Apple's new OSX by default only allows the user to install applications from Apple's App Store. You can change that setting, but it is the default setting. They probably fear Microsoft will eventually do the same thing.

There is no way that Microsoft will EVER attempt to pull off what Apple's done with the new OSX. MS would be sued into oblivion if they even considered locking people to the app store. How Apple gets away with it, completely blows my mind.

ryuh3d said,
I think these companies are scared of the Windows 8 Marketplace/Store. I have been using Windows 8 since DP and obviously from a functions standpoint -- all of their games still work, nothing is changing there.

They fear that Microsoft will try to only allow programs sold via Windows 8 App Store.

Apple's new OSX by default only allows the user to install applications from Apple's App Store. You can change that setting, but it is the default setting. They probably fear Microsoft will eventually do the same thing.

Only thing that has to go through the store is WinRT games, they'll never change how Win32 and desktop apps act and work and how they install. That coves games as well, unless a dev wants to target tablets running Windows RT on ARM. But regardless they'd have to go through the store for that hardware just like they do for smartphones because they're kinda the same type of system. x86 based tablets being the exception of course.

Also it's not just the windows store, but don't forget the tight xbox live integration as well. Now when you look at it, windows 8 on it's own can basically do what you get from steam out of the box, and that's what's troubling Gabe.

ryuh3d said,
I think these companies are scared of the Windows 8 Marketplace/Store. I have been using Windows 8 since DP and obviously from a functions standpoint -- all of their games still work, nothing is changing there.


They fear that Microsoft will try to only allow programs sold via Windows 8 App Store.

Apple's new OSX by default only allows the user to install applications from Apple's App Store. You can change that setting, but it is the default setting. They probably fear Microsoft will eventually do the same thing.

They are afraid Microsoft will be Apple, even though Microsoft has never acted like Apple nor hinted that they will act like Apple, and have left holes so that even if they did, people could not use the Store any tell Microsoft to F--- Off.

Blizzard and others are 'fearful' of in App purchase restrictions, as they are in business models of monthly subscriptions and selling 'Game Cash' with microtransactions.

They currently get 100% of these two revenue streams, and are afraid Microsoft will want their share. However, their fear comes from the Apple and phone markets, and unless they 'need' Microsoft, Microsoft has NO INTEREST in involving themselves.

This is why the App Market does not FORCE developers to use it, and it can be just a link to their WebSite and for non-Metro/WinRT Apps, Microsoft will NOT OFFER a way to distribute the software, nor involve themselves in the distribution of the game or the subscription.

This is where the Stream idiot is a bit crazy, as Microsoft specifically left doors open for companies like Steam to keep their place in distribution, and either they are greedy or too stupid to see that Microsoft left this opportunity for them.

Microsoft TRULY wants NOTHING to do with distribution of ALL Windows software, nor the subsriptions of games like WoW, nor game or application Micro-Transactions.

There are millions of software titles, and just this work alone would flood Microsoft with more work than they could handle. Handling just the App Store for Metro Apps is bitting off a lot of work and responsibility, imagine instead of 500,000 Apps, dealing with 100,000,000 Apps, it is not possible.

Seriously Windows 8 can run WoW Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 whats the problem its not causing them any problems what ever maybe they might have to make a compatibility patch?

Dot Matrix said,
What has changed to make these companies cry? Absolutely nothing. So you have a full screen Start. Boo freaking hoo.

Not sure for Blizzard, but for Valve, I could see how the built in app store might give them pause as it would compete directly with Steam

Sraf said,

Not sure for Blizzard, but for Valve, I could see how the built in app store might give them pause as it would compete directly with Steam

Nah, I don't think it is competing really, Steam offers a lot more than just a Store it has a Community and much more.

Sraf said,

Not sure for Blizzard, but for Valve, I could see how the built in app store might give them pause as it would compete directly with Steam

The Steam client uses a protocol handler to launch games. It should be quite simple for them to write a Metro front-end for their store and have even more sales opportunities. Both Newell, and now Pardo, seem to be just whining with zero explanation as to why. Is Blizzard concerned that people will buy their games from another company?

SuperKid said,

Nah, I don't think it is competing really, Steam offers a lot more than just a Store it has a Community and much more.

Yes, but this is the problem you see, and why they are not quite as worried about the Apple App store. Games bought through the Windows Marketplace can be Xbox Live games, and there is a rather large community there too.

GreyWolf, I don't think the launching of games will really be an issue. Simple thing they can do is use the HTML5 app tools for Windows 8, with the code generated by a local server application (that would be Steam proper) dynamically. No, I think this is primarily a "You have a native store, users might go there instead of to us!" And while I don't think the threat is that big, (and I doubt they think so either) they might just be trying to make a fracas to get MS to give them some special allowances that will help them do better in Windows 8 than they would otherwise

Dot Matrix said,
What has changed to make these companies cry? Absolutely nothing. So you have a full screen Start. Boo freaking hoo.

To put it simply, Windows Store + Xbox Live integrated offers potentially a much better solution in the long term than Steam or Battle.net. Long term, both see their platforms threatened and having to cough up 20% revenues to Microsoft to rub salt into their wounds.

In the short term, it doesn't matter at all, but they want to their fans to start moving to Linux where they have no competition. They are just afraid that Windows will become like a closed console-like platform and cut down on their profits.

The media have taken their words out of context. I don't think either are commenting on Windows 8 as a product or operating system at all. By all means it advances performance with DX11.1.

GreyWolf said,

The Steam client uses a protocol handler to launch games. It should be quite simple for them to write a Metro front-end for their store and have even more sales opportunities. Both Newell, and now Pardo, seem to be just whining with zero explanation as to why. Is Blizzard concerned that people will buy their games from another company?

I agree. I think it is kind of irresponsible to just make a statement with no explanation at all. I really don't see where blizzard would be affected negatively by windows 8.

Maybe if yahoos like Dot didn't jump to superficial reasons (like the StartScreen) and open your ears once in a while, you might catch on. The issue is WinRT is trending toward a more closed system overall. If we can no longer trust MS to be devoted to a modular, open platform and not their own Apple-like walled garden, that is cause for concern for any developer, especially those that don't want to be forced to give MS a cut of the profits. Its not about Win8, but where it seems to be leading us.

SuperKid said,

Nah, I don't think it is competing really, Steam offers a lot more than just a Store it has a Community and much more.

Well, one can say that Windows 8 will also, don't forget the tight Xbox Live integration and future cross-platform things it opens up, which we've already started to see in some arcade titles coming. Toss in smart glass and so on and now Windows 8 + Xbox Live integration + Windows store and yes, Steam is being directly competed with. And they're moaning about it.

But hell, this is Gabe, remember he slammed the PS3, then sony let them link it to steam and now it's so great! He's full of it, this is about money really, not so much the end users or the UI changes or anything, steam is going to get competition and that's all.

Dashel said,
Maybe if yahoos like Dot didn't jump to superficial reasons (like the StartScreen) and open your ears once in a while, you might catch on. The issue is WinRT is trending toward a more closed system overall. If we can no longer trust MS to be devoted to a modular, open platform and not their own Apple-like walled garden, that is cause for concern for any developer, especially those that don't want to be forced to give MS a cut of the profits. Its not about Win8, but where it seems to be leading us.

Don't use winrt? Win32 is there, it's going to be there for quite some time and that's not going to change. Desktop apps aren't part of the "walled-guarded" that seems to freak people out for no reason, Apple gets a good chunk of games on it's store and no ones bitching on that end. Games can be advertised on the store just like desktop apps, because they are desktop apps. If they don't want to use the new api they don't have to and MS isn't going to just kill off win32 tomorrow, or next year.

If you want to tarked Windows RT tablets, well you'd have to use the new API anyways, it's no different than targeting a game at a smartphone, any one, you'll port it and you'll go through that phones app store to get your app out. Tablets are the same in that regard.

But yeah, why give MS a cut of your profits, wait, why give Valve a cut of your profits exactly and use steam? Hold on here, isn't that the same? Why did EA decide to make it's own store if steam is so great and open for them exactly?

This has zero to do with windows 8 as on OS, it's all about the windows store and even more so the direct integration with xbox live and the fact that it's now a more direct competitor to steam on the PC and they don't like it so much.

GP007 said,

Don't use winrt? Win32 is there, it's going to be there for quite some time. Apple gets a good chunk of games on it's store and no ones bitching on that end. If they don't want to use the new api they don't have to and MS isn't going to just kill off win32 tomorrow, or next year. This has zero to do with windows 8 as on OS, it's all about the windows store

Thats exactly it. Sure Win32 is here today, but the calls that its 'legacy' have already begun. These guys are looking 5-10 years out, not 1-2. Frankly, its a testament to the Apple app community that they suck down such absurd fees without a whimper. That is the app store they are afraid of MS mimicking, and frankly, so am I. Your last paragraph is partially true, it highlights why Dot's hysteria is misplaced - its about the ecosystem, not the OS.

I mean you said it yourself. You have a OS that puts all devices under the same roof. You then eventually force people to port into it by at some point by removing the old.. You didn't say that WinRT wouldn't effect them, you said that Win32 was fine. An interesting distinction.

“This isn't about videogames; it's about thinking about goods and services in a digital world.” - Gabe

Dashel said,

Thats exactly it. Sure Win32 is here today, but the calls that its 'legacy' have already begun. These guys are looking 5-10 years out, not 1-2. Frankly, its a testament to the Apple app community that they suck down such absurd fees without a whimper. That is the app store they are afraid of MS mimicking, and frankly, so am I. Your last paragraph is partially true, it highlights why Dot's hysteria is misplaced - its about the ecosystem, not the OS.

If that ever happens, and you have the prospect of big companies like Adobe losing 30% of their profit on Windows Marketplace for warhorse products like Photoshop, you're going to see changes in Microsoft's model.

So even though worries are correctly placed I wouldn't go around like Chicken Little quite yet.

As a consumer, I generally agree brian. For Valve, I can empathize with them being a bit more on edge. No one has raised anti-trust questions against Apple for their store. This would have much greater consumer/corporate reach. I'm not saying I think that will happen, only acknowledging the potential.

Dot Matrix said,
What has changed to make these companies cry? Absolutely nothing. So you have a full screen Start. Boo freaking hoo.

Well i guess Pardo and Gabe don't know what they are talking about.
Something must have changed for them to display such hate towards windows 8.
But i guess you know better than them eh ?
No offense but i would put more weight in their opinion than yours lol

Dashel said,

Thats exactly it. Sure Win32 is here today, but the calls that its 'legacy' have already begun. These guys are looking 5-10 years out, not 1-2. Frankly, its a testament to the Apple app community that they suck down such absurd fees without a whimper. That is the app store they are afraid of MS mimicking, and frankly, so am I. Your last paragraph is partially true, it highlights why Dot's hysteria is misplaced - its about the ecosystem, not the OS.

Legacy does not mean unable to run or be used.

I don't get what the obsession is with Win32, as it was a framework subsystem designed to be an expanded variation of Win16. There are OTHER ways to write 'native code' on Windows NT, always have been and always will be.

Win32, like Win16 will be around for a LONG time. With the exception of X64 (which still can in a VM Mode, like XP Mode) Win16 and even DOS code work just fine, even crap that tries to touch the hardware has a good chance of running, as Windows 7 and Windows 8 step in to grab these calls, just like they do errant Win32 calls.

Moving to a new UI framework is NOT a massive issue for 99.9% of the developers out there, ESPECIALLY game developers unless they have done really STUPID crap like GDI overlays.

If Adobe can make Photoshop for Windows and OS X and essentially use a majority of the SAME CODE, with only specific UI and OS optimized code, this stuff is easy.

In a world where tons of cross platform, and even crappy cross platform code exists and is used by a lot of people, for people to take issue with a 'nudge' from on UI frame to another on the same freaking OS platform is INSANE.

If moving from Win32 to WinRT is too hard for anyone, they should NOT BE making software.

The idea of WinRT is to expand out UI concepts that are there but NOT enforced in Win32. Sure there are APIs for 50 points of touch input and ways to write and do some really awesome usage changing things in Windows 7.

However, because there is and was NOTHING that forced developers to support touch or use navigation or touch gestures, it never took off in Windows 7.

So Microsoft is FORCING developers to do what they freaking should have been doing when Vista was release, and have fully integrated support for in Windows 7, but they were dumb or lazy and DID NOT, and people wouldn't buy or use Windows 7 because wasn't seen as 'touch friendly'.

So blame the idiot developers that sat around for 5 years and DONE NOTHING to support the technologies. Then look at Microsoft and thank them for FINALLY forcing idiot developers to implement consistent touch and navigation UI in software.

WinRT and Metro are a powerful framework, but their primary function is new UI consistency. Developers can still use Win32 or DOS or any freaking thing they want; the only real rule is that for the UI, they need to use WinRT to implement the UI and support the concepts of the UI so that their STUPID SOFTWARE will work on TOUCH SCREENS, which is Microsoft FINALLY FORCING a STANDARD because developers were not bright enough to have used it before now.

Even look at TabletPC, the Ink and touch and pen controls have been around for 10 years, how many applications or games out there do you see supporting them inherently? Virtually ZERO. That is just dumb or lazy, as implementing the specific controls for these technologies are simple, and it isn't hard to add in a few of the add on controls/calls that are not inherited though existing controls.

Windows 7 has brilliant touch features, yet Microsoft has been having to sit back and go, ya but we can't get developers to implement them, and when they do, they don't follow the usability rules. WinRT fixes all that...


Seriously though, creating the UI in Microsoft WinRT framework is not hard, and as it has been demonstrated existing applications can literally be wrapped in WinRT with no modification, although Microsoft won't 'approve' them for the Market, as they don't follow the usability and touch rules, but it is possible.


Also what is the 'fear' and 'crap' with the 'lock in' mentality?

Microsoft already controls Windows, there is no more lock in, that the Windows certification program, and you DO NOT have to participate in the market or anything else. The only place it is 'required' is WOA, where these are devices and there is usability and security concerns.

Outside of WOA (Windows 8 RT), you can write or do whatever you want, and will be able to for years and years. 30 years later and you can still run DOS software, why do you think Win32 will just disappear? That would be the DUMBEST thing Microsoft could do, as during the WinRT and other transitions, it is what is holding developers as they learn and understand the new technologies.

Getting rid of legacy support for Win32 would be like shooting themselves in the head. It is NOT going to happen for a long time out, and even when it does, there will be translation/compatibility/VM technology to make the software still run as it shifts outside of the OS and into a isolated VM or other technology. (On NT specificially, Win16 runs in a VDM like DOS, but it is transparent, people don't realize the OS doesn't really run Win16, and NEVER did.)

I am Not PCyr said,

Well i guess Pardo and Gabe don't know what they are talking about.
Something must have changed for them to display such hate towards windows 8.
But i guess you know better than them eh ?
No offense but i would put more weight in their opinion than yours lol

Didn't you know? Dotty knows better than everyone else in the world! Don't believe me, just ask him!

/s

Honestly, he wouldn't see his nose to spite his face if someone besides himself told him it was there.

Net, your post is simply too long to address in detail here. I will address that you admit, by your own words, that MS is forcing a new standard to address 'bad devs' as you put it.

While I understand the frustration with bad devs over the years and how they have created a 'bad taste' for many users, I still would rather have a plaform that recommends and not requires. Citing the ability to run 'legacy' anything is simply not forward looking. (GOO games for example)

Does Windows 8 block blizzard in some way from selling your wow accounts?? I made a battle.net account and attached the WOW trial but never downloaded it or logged in. Now i get phishing emails. Wonder how that happens.

Colin McGregor said,
Does Windows 8 block blizzard in some way from selling your wow accounts?? I made a battle.net account and attached the WOW trial but never downloaded it or logged in. Now i get phishing emails. Wonder how that happens.

yeah, I did something similar. Made a new off the wall e-mail address for a blizz b-net account. Started getting phished the following week Since that was the only game/place it was attached to, I really started to wonder.

Guess it is possible that some random company in Asia put enough random characters and capital letters and stuff together that they got it right... yeah, sure.