Blu-ray Disc--The New VHS?

Hello Blu-ray ... adios, HD DVD. There was no doubt in my mind when I heard that Universal studios lined up with Warner Bros in its support for Blu-ray. Hold off on your calls and letters. I know--Universal is still supporting HD DVD too; see "Universal Denies Reports That It's Leaving HD DVD."

At the same time, if you read "Toshiba Slashes HD DVD Prices," you'll see that Toshiba appears to be dumping HD DVD players faster than Windows Vista users are switching to Macs. And Microsoft has said it couldn't care less about HD DVD.

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I say forget both formats.

My house is wired up with 3 XBMC Xboxs. When XBMC for Linux is ready I'll upgrade to PC's fast enough for fullHD.

Then only have a Blueray and/or HD-dvd in my PC which after that I can simply rip the disk to a NAS and watch it all from there.

I also know I am not suppose to say this but lets all be real. Both formats will be cracked of their region codes and AACS and anything else they try to do. We can then all just download the fullHD rips store on a NAS and watch thru HD capable Media centers.

If the movies studios and manufacturors want to screw with our freedoms by charging way too much and making it very hard to play our own media on ALL of our own gear in FULL glory then I say up yours to them all.

Personally I liked HD-DVD. Seems a logical path from DVD and it is a more complete format. but either way I just wish one would win and then get the prices down.

I do know how HD-DVD could still come back, thats to release a HD-DVD Recorder with built in HD DTV tuner and sell them for around $300-$400 australian dollars.

I would risk that much money on it for those features.

I wanted to see Blu-Ray fail just so that Sony would stop trying to create storage media! :D

First we had Betamax, which I still have never seen in r/l Mini Disk, Memory Stick Pro, which is only surviving because of the PSP and now Blu-Ray.

I only post when I feel strongly about something, or don't feel at all - I don't sit on the fence, so here goes.

Article is utter garbage. News item is utter garbage. Enough of the narration in sheeps clothing....it's not news. This is attempting to spark a dead debate. It's no different that the XP vs Vista debate. It's been had...lots of times before, and based on articles that, quite simply, are a country mile more articulated than "that" which this news post is based on.

I'm not saying I could do a better job on a regular basis, but I certainly could post regular "NEWS" items on a regular basis better than this one. It's just not news.

News is something that breaks new ground, or continues from where an article has left off....it doesn't, repeat DOESN'T ever walk through the same muddy waters.

There should be a new signature for all posters of News items similar to the Environment ones on emails doing the rounds, but instead of "please think of the environment before emailing" it should be "please think of the rest of the world....by posting this you could be taking 30 seconds away from users that they will never see again - and for no reason!"

(Hanif said @ #24)
I am a former Vista user that switched to a MacBook, never looked back since

Maybe you should post that on neomac.net and get a big welcome? Revisiting neowin is not looking back, it's ... coming back, lol.

"Toshiba appears to be dumping HD DVD players faster than Windows Vista users are switching to Macs"

Oh the irony, since Macintosh is the new Betamax.

blu ray is all good but im not spending 30 bucks too watch a movie. ill pick up a standard dvd for about 1/2 that cost for now unless im totally crazy about the movie

Just release the damned movies in both formats and let us buy the one we want. It's a disc. How much can it cost to press them, 12 cents?

(XP1 said @ #19.1)
The cost can add up.

Well, Warner has no problem at all releasing crappy Harry Potter games for every movie and for every console. That even requires porting. All a dual release would require is two mastering runs, and they're probably mostly automated. No excuse.

Unfortunately, this war will not be won by studio support alone.

This is not the 80's, the VHS analogy is severly flawed. In the 80's VHS and Beta had no other competition for home entertainment dollars - the war was only with thosetwo format. BD and HD DVD are presently competing with Video on Demand, Cable, Xbox Live, iTunes and a myriad of other sources including Chinese Pirates (aargh).

In order to gain market share and be the next home video format BD/HD DVD, overtaking DVD, BD/HD DVD need more than the 4% of the home video marketshare they presently possess combined.

HD DVD is in a position to prevail in the absense of studio support by selling HD DVD players simply as DVD upconverting players with the capability of playing HD DVD discs. My dad is not interested in replacing his 2000 DVD collection for either format - but if he believes he would buy a DVD player that would upconvert and give him the option. Both formats can do this, but with HD DVD in bed with the DVD forum, they are very well suited to do so.

Yeah, but he might as well wait and get a Blu-ray player when they come down in price - they also upscale but will be able to play HD. Paramount and Universal are only exclusive for 18 months and because they were paid... when that time is up it seems very unlikely they will want to block sales for the dominant format (as predicted by Gartner and based on general trends) and could switch sooner.

Definitely buy an HD-DVD player over a regular upscaler but going Blu-ray or multi-format makes more sense in this climate.

you'll see that Toshiba appears to be dumping HD DVD players faster than Windows Vista users are switching to Macs.

ummmm....yeah
I forgot to throw away my vista machine and hunt down a really cool mac

I still think HD-DVD has a good 5+ years left in it, ok it might not get every studio in the book, but I'm hoping it will be the standard in home video recording / backing up etc. I just can't see Toshiba dumping HD-DVD, so I doubt they would dump this, I'm just glad I got both hehe.

Neowin's "unprofessional journalism" has been getting more and more unprofessional with each passing day.

You simply cannot derive news from an opinion column!

Hey Fleshburne, do you ever post real technology news or is posting your own or someone else's biased opinions all you got in your repertoire?

What's with Neowin constantly posting these trollbait anti HD-DVD "news" articles?

Get this crap off the front page.

Neowin is simply trying to represent the tone of articles out there. People are intelligent enough to dismiss articles that are biased and of little value, like this one. I'm sure the main reason it was posted it because it is from a well-known tech site, not because of its high quality or to wind people up.

I refuse to touch *either* format currently for several reasons:

1. Yes, HD-DVD sales are shrinking; however, BD sales aren't exactly anything to write home about compared to *standard DVD* sales; even worse, the only BD Profile2 player at a decent price is the PS3 (which is admittedly being sold at a loss), which is still $400USD.

2. If I were to buy either, it would be more as an upconverting DVD player than anything else, and only HD-DVD is close to the feature set I would want in such a player and has the price I would be willing to pay.

3. The studios (the content providers) are going where the content-protection is (basically, to BD+); also, they are taking great joy in the high pricing for BD media to consumers (not to mention the high prices for BD recorders for PCs). Since I'm 46, have zero interest in console games, and the one format I would actually support is getting stabbed in the back, why should I enrich the winner?

One other thing is that the movie industry lags behind, but it always seems to follow the music industry when it comes to technology. Look at how mp3s are leveling the CD market. How long do you think it will be before movie downloading and/or streaming is going to replace physical media? This format war might be over before a winner is decided.

What do people do with their music? They listen to it on their PC and copy it to their iPod - sometimes they will burn it to CD for their car or their stereo. What do people do with movies? Watch them on their TV. Occasionally people will use a portable device like a portable DVD player or an iPod video but those activities are far less common. Not only that but audio is very small and more compressed - video is very much larger and people are moving to HD because they want BETTER quality.

Streaming will happen in the future but only once it is integrated into set-top boxes, internet speeds increase and download caps are removed (which is a long way off). Downloading movies is still unpopular, even for free (with subscription to TV) services like Sky. So HD discs will certainly be the standard for the current generation and we will have to see either one winner or both formats coexist.

(theyarecomingforyou said @ #11.2)
What do people do with their music? They listen to it on their PC and copy it to their iPod - sometimes they will burn it to CD for their car or their stereo. What do people do with movies? Watch them on their TV. Occasionally people will use a portable device like a portable DVD player or an iPod video but those activities are far less common. Not only that but audio is very small and more compressed - video is very much larger and people are moving to HD because they want BETTER quality.

Streaming will happen in the future but only once it is integrated into set-top boxes, internet speeds increase and download caps are removed (which is a long way off). Downloading movies is still unpopular, even for free (with subscription to TV) services like Sky. So HD discs will certainly be the standard for the current generation and we will have to see either one winner or both formats coexist.


Spot on

As for PGHammer, PS3 isn't a Profile 2.0 player until the firmware update allows it, although it already has all the necessary features required for it to be enabled.

(theyarecomingforyou said @ #11.2)
What do people do with their music? They listen to it on their PC and copy it to their iPod - sometimes they will burn it to CD for their car or their stereo. What do people do with movies? Watch them on their TV. Occasionally people will use a portable device like a portable DVD player or an iPod video but those activities are far less common. Not only that but audio is very small and more compressed - video is very much larger and people are moving to HD because they want BETTER quality.

Streaming will happen in the future but only once it is integrated into set-top boxes, internet speeds increase and download caps are removed (which is a long way off). Downloading movies is still unpopular, even for free (with subscription to TV) services like Sky. So HD discs will certainly be the standard for the current generation and we will have to see either one winner or both formats coexist.

Well said.

1. that is just ridiculous, there are more movies on DVD so of course the sales will be higher, and while people like you keep thinig like that, it isn't likely to change.. it's simle comon sense, shoudl we care that the PS3 is being sold at a loss, i dont think so, would you prefer it was more expensive? shoudl we not buy the best device for playing bluray, just because its a console, whocares if you only want to watch movies then you can, noone is forcing you to play games on it..

2. you realise upconverting (or it's proper name upscaling) actually doesn't improve the quality, it just makes it work at 1080p.. and i am curious as to what feature set you want from a movie player (obvciously not the ability to play games)... i am quite happy if it plays movies!!!!

3. whocares about content protection unless you pirate all your movies, and even then, some hacker will figure it out soon enough anyway, they always do.. high pricing is normal for a new meida, they will come down in price as did every other media once it had a decent market share..

so your 46, does that mean you dont watch movies, what has it to do with gaming, i know over 40 year olds that LUV gaming.. remmemeber if you do buy a PS3 as a bluray player, you arent forced to play games...

stabbed in the back???? it's a format war... you expect everyone to play nice, maybe you should campaign for a geneva convention style guide for tech wars...

you shoudl enrich the winner, so you can watch movies, casue before long you wont have a choice, DVD will die as did VHS, reel to reel, Records, Tapes, 8-tracks.

Haha, no kidding :)
At least stuff from The Register is written with tongue in cheek, but this one isn't even that.

From this article, we can learn:
- Support is growing for Blu-ray due to Warner's switch.
- Toshiba has slashed their prices in response.
- He will wait a while for prices to drop more.
- He wraps things up by suddenly posting two YouTube videos we should "dig". :-S

It's not even just a reiteration of old news, but in a bad way too.

good job i picked up a bargain a few weeks ago with a sony blur-ray 2x writer for £70

now only if blu ray media was to drop in price...£9 on average for a 25gb bd-r disc, i'd be happy if they were like £3-4 a disc...

(Elite_graphix said @ #8)
good job i picked up a bargain a few weeks ago with a sony blur-ray 2x writer for £70

now only if blu ray media was to drop in price...£9 on average for a 25gb bd-r disc, i'd be happy if they were like £3-4 a disc...

I'm hoping HD-DVD sticks around for a bit longer and puts pressure on BD, to drive down prices of both formats. It was bad enough when the price of DL DVD's was stupidly high, without some competition I can't really see Blu-ray being much better.

25gb? I thought they were somewhere in the vicinity of 50 gb when first announced at least or maybe that was dual layer..I don't remember.

(Kreuger said @ #8.2)
25gb? I thought they were somewhere in the vicinity of 50 gb when first announced at least or maybe that was dual layer..I don't remember.

25GB single layer, 50GB dual, yeah.

Yes, I'm thinking the same thing as you... The Blu-ray writers are actually not that big of a deal anymore. I won't get one for £70 unless I stoop to used drives, but they're still not that bad. It's the discs that are still being a bit too expensive for my taste and I'll have to wait for a while longer. Not that recordable HD-DVD's are much cheaper, so it's not really about that. I think it's just too much of a niche market still and that's all.

(Kushan said @ #8.1)

I'm hoping HD-DVD sticks around for a bit longer and puts pressure on BD, to drive down prices of both formats. It was bad enough when the price of DL DVD's was stupidly high, without some competition I can't really see Blu-ray being much better.


I don't think that's going to work out well if it happened. I think that's actually why the prices are still high. Precisely because we have been having a format war so far. That cause uncertainty in what to use among customers, which cripples the demand, and causes low production volumes => high costs. I think one need to keep two things in mind: 1) there's not just one BD-R disc manufacturer, so there's competition even within the same format, and 2) the competition will be fueled by increased demand. I don't really see how HD-DVD competition would help there. It would just split the market and halve the demand for each if we'd get to a 50/50 situation, for example.

where the hell did you get a bluray writer for 70 pounds.....

and do you not remeber how much blank DVD's were when they came out, they were more expensive than buying DVD movies...

as for the guy that wants HD to stick around to lower prices more, it has no effect anymore, bluray will know they have won, so wont even bother.. HD will just drop prices to try adn get rid of the stock they have before the fomat dies and they loose all their money..

it all comes down to supply and demand, do people on this site not understadn the concept, when the format war ends, people will buy the stuff, the more people buy, the more development costs get recouped, and the cheaper the devices and disks get..

I got a 46" 1080p tv before xmas and I'm holding on for the new PS3 to get bluray, HDDVD crossed my mind but im going for bluray

i think he's referring to the last format war (VHS vs Betamax). Dvd had it easy and didn't really have a competing format

(neufuse said @ #6)
the new VHS? huh? someone forget a little gem called DVD? Blu Ray is the new DVD...

Betamax vs VHS war, that's what he meant

"...dumping HD DVD players faster than Windows Vista users are switching to Macs."

After that comment I don't even want to read the flimflam within the article.

Knob.

(YaZoR said @ #5)
"...dumping HD DVD players faster than Windows Vista users are switching to Macs."

After that comment I don't even want to read the flimflam within the article.

Knob.

I know same here lol

(YaZoR said @ #5)
"...dumping HD DVD players faster than Windows Vista users are switching to Macs."

After that comment I don't even want to read the flimflam within the article.

Knob.

+1

I think Bass was just attempting an editorial joke. Basically something like people comparing HD DVD to Betamax and Vista to Win ME. Don't discount the whole editorial for one sentence. He does provide some informative links.

(lbmouse said @ #5.4)
I think Bass was just attempting an editorial joke. Basically something like people comparing HD DVD to Betamax and Vista to Win ME. Don't discount the whole editorial for one sentence. He does provide some informative links.

Discounted. My opinion is in the quality rating. Current rating of article on PC World: 8 good, 30 crap

(YaZoR said @ #5)
"...dumping HD DVD players faster than Windows Vista users are switching to Macs."

After that comment I don't even want to read the flimflam within the article.

Knob.

Could not agree more. But my granny drives faster than Vista users are switching to macs

-10

I thought it was funny as hell.


Hearing the elite clap for Vista in one ear, and the mob (containing thousands more users) scream death chants about it in the other.... you'd think it was funny too.

I am running Vista and I thought that was pretty funny.

Neowhine (n): An individual being overly protective of Microsoft, but allowing an extreme hatred/bias towards Sony and any of it's products. A common example would be to claim that downloading is the future even though they bought HD DVD.

(eth3l said @ #5.7)

Could not agree more. But my granny drives faster than Vista users are switching to macs


LOL So can a joke about your granny be used in the next article that deals with speed? :P

I'm joking, of course.

Am I the only one who thinks that lately theres been a certain level of Vista hatred in the majority of Neowin's Vista articles as well as the non-Vista related articles such as this one?

It was funny (I think) at some stage, but now its kinda getting old.

This has to be the most unbiased article I have ever read. :P

I think Blu-ray will "win" too. But this isn't news in the slightest. I mean, even the source page even says "In which our columnist declares his loyalty to the Blu-ray camp, and readers tell us what they think. Steve Bass"

honestly this is rediculous. no wonder there's debate over whether online sources can actually be considered journalism.

this isnt news, this is editorial. this isn't the new york times, it belongs in the forums.

I defnitely think BD is more consumer friendly, mainly because of its excellent integration into the PS3, a bold move from sony but it paid off.

oh come off it, it's the most consumer unfriendly format ever. It couldn't be any worse if
Mandatory AACS, region encoding that probably won't be bypassed (all companies making hardware ended up acknowledging that no-one but the studios wanted region encoding). A company on public record that states 'early adopters knew what they were getting into', and that they see no reason to drop their (ridiculously high) prices.
Just because the PS3 is the only player that isn't getting totally shafted by the 1.1 and v2 transition doesn't make it a consumer friendly format.

As for dumping, bluray's been dumping media like rads over Chernobyl, half price or less sales all over the place for a brand new medium? and 'free' discs scattered with everything they can.

(Coldgunner said @ #1)
I defnitely think BD is more consumer friendly, mainly because of its excellent integration into the PS3, a bold move from sony but it paid off.

LOL - OMFG that's hilarious..

Excellent integration?

Then I suppose by your engineering standards, the PS3 would not have been possible without it?

Let's see.... between that comment, and this one from the article:

And Microsoft has said it couldn't care less about HD DVD.

Care less about HD-DVD.... hmmm, that would explain why the XBox 360 has an HD-DVD add on drive, and not a Blu-Ray one!!

no what I mean't was that sony took a gamble integrating the bd drive into the ps3. so now its in fact the best bd player you can get and one of the cheapest. what is not consumer friendly about that.

don't tell me about the ps3 not needing bd-rom support, its something sony wanted for additional content to be available in the future, whereas dvd9 is about at its limits. If the BD format failed then sony still had a format for games.