Former Microsoft PM: "Silverlight is Dead"

Today, Microsoft announced their latest iteration of their OS -- Windows 8 -- but one thing was eerily missing from the announcement, and support in the product. That missing thing? Silverlight.

In a video post today by Scott Barnes, former Rich Platforms Product Manager at Microsoft for the Silverlight team, talks about how Silverlight is dead in Windows 8. In the video he talks about his history at Microsoft, and how he ended up resigning from the company.

"Silverlight is dead" he says in his video, "Silverlight is %&#ing dead, and I know, because there's one guy right now whos metrics are to shut Silverlight down as a brand down, most of the team have been split apart and others have left the company altogether." He goes on to point out "there's a reason Scott Gunthrie wasn't on stage today."

Barnes goes on to say that "S%# needs to get resolved" and says that HTML5 isn't the solution to the issue. He believes that everyone is on a sugar high and under Microsoft "mind control" after the BUILD event, and when developers realize what's going on they'll be unhappy. Scott also says that "Windows 8 has a lot of work" before it's ready for release. He urges developers to move on now, or speak up, otherwise risk their work being wasted.

The video can be viewed in it's entirety below. Developers seem generally happy with their first impressions of Windows 8 at BUILD, however, it's likely that many will be upset that Silverlight has been killed after they have invested time in it. It's obvious that Microsoft is moving away from Silverlight, but we're yet to actually see the company admit that.

Funnily enough, the BUILD keynote this morning? Streamed in Silverlight.

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silverlight has nothing to do with Metro ,becouse silverlight is for web ...... so in Metro apps we see the evolution of WPF ,not a killed silverlight

Some of you are in serious denial. There's not a single session on Silverlight at the entire Build conference. Try searching for it: http://channel9.msdn.com/Event...n=desc&term=silverlight Silverlight is dead as as a brand. True, it lives on as the successor to WPF. But going forward it is essentially a platform-specific technology. That's very different to its original identity as a cross-platform, web-based solution. For those who are using SL as a web app platform, they're now developing with a legacy technology. Even the fanboys can't deny that. From that perspective, SL is dead.

erasmus777 said,
But going forward it is essentially a platform-specific technology. That's very different to its original identity as a cross-platform, web-based solution.

Considering the non-MS-platform support for Silverlight it was never alive by your definition…

MFH said,

Considering the non-MS-platform support for Silverlight it was never alive by your definition…

I'm not sure what you mean. MS offers a Mac port of Silverlight 4 and also encouraged development of Moonlight for Linux. That sounds like a fairly cross-platform approach to me.

erasmus777 said,

I'm not sure what you mean. MS offers a Mac port of Silverlight 4 and also encouraged development of Moonlight for Linux. That sounds like a fairly cross-platform approach to me.

Silverlight is as cross-platform as .NET as a whole and that's not very much. .NET was never following the Java mantra "One language for all platforms" but followed "Several languages for one platform".

Just look at the open alternatives, they are always lagging behind and won't ever support the whole of Microsoft's .NET libraries - Mono won't even bother with WPF, WCF, WF,…

If they really wanted .NET to be cross-platform they would not have just "encouraged" the development for other platforms, but would have developed it themselves.

Matter of fact .NET was always designed to be a Windows thing and that didn't change since it's inception…

After installing the Dev Preview, I'm even more inclined to believe him. You can't even create a Silverlight project in Blend, JavaScript is your only choice for the preview. They don't want you in there.

Interestingly,"Silverlight" has been removed from Visual Studio and is simply called Application. A shift has certainly happened in the Dev Division. Not sure I like it.

Whoa! So many people are quickly firing at the messenger. Why do you guys hate Scott Barnes who's being nice and telling you what's coming?

S. Barnes has been spot on ever since he broke the story on Windows team backstabbing the Dev team on SilverLight:
He said WPF was dead, and sure enough WPF was all radio silence and that's Microsoft way of abandoning a technology.
He said SilverLight was under siege, and sure enough we had Microsoft first declaring a 'shift' in last year's PDC and then basically sidelining SL in the MIX that had been SL's show-case event.
He said Windows team was screwing with Dev team, and sure enough did you see ScottGu aka Mr.DotNet first being moved away from SilverLight team and now not even making an appearance at annual biggest developer event?
He said Windows team is attempting an old-school Embrace-Extend-Extinguish tactic with HTML5 and sure enough they first talked about native HTML in that June demo and now is showing all these backdoor native to Win8 only goodies to let Web App run smoothly.

What else does it take to convince you S.Barnes has been right? Perhaps ScottGu's resignation from Microsoft (God forbid) later on would do? Do not count on WP7 to help SilverLight. The world out there is Win8 can be easily slimmed down into a handset. Plus WP is not having a big enough market share to have a voice in Microsoft. Heck, did you guys notice how much profit the Server & Dev team make last time? Ain't matter. They are still shoved around by the Win Div.

This is a disaster. Microsoft as a tech company is failing. It is failing when their teams (Win Div/ IE Div), in a bid to stay relevant, play internal politics and backstab another team (Dev Div) on a fairly good product (SilverLight) only to pick up garbage (HTML5/JS) that help them survive. It's a sham. It's a tragedy.

those concerned about this really ought to read comments by netavenger above. it's reassuring when someone who actually knows something contributes in these 'cry wolf' stories. neowin needs to do more research rather than just publish someone looking for 15 minutes in the limelight.. quality, not quantity matters... my 0.02.

aquanaut88 said,
those concerned about this really ought to read comments by netavenger above. it's reassuring when someone who actually knows something contributes in these 'cry wolf' stories. neowin needs to do more research rather than just publish someone looking for 15 minutes in the limelight.. quality, not quantity matters... my 0.02.

+1

So the Windows division "won" over the developer division. Give the guy some benefit of doubt. He's talking stuff that you can't as an MS employee.

What Microsoft is only saying is existing Silverlight versions will continue to work. Which implies it's dead on any new development front. Probably Version 5 will be the last one. Very very sad. They should have continued with full Silverlight development in parallel with HTML5. Silverlight was a GREAT platform and a GREAT alternative to Flash.

wow... and you really post a stupid post by a stupid guy? he is a FORMER Microsoft PM, what the hell does he know?

i mean, silverlight 5 its in RC. i even just read "New Silverlight Controls Showcased at the BUILD Conference" wow... i love how IT IS DEAD! so DEAD that there are more controls showcased. and windows phone? people forget about XAP files?... and how today they changed a little of the code and the same app ran in WP and windows 8?....

and is this why Steven Sinofsky said ""Any XAML or Silverlight fans in the room?".... sure, mentioning something dead... its... the way of killing things now?...

so adding new controls, RC for the plugin, and Steven asking if there one silverlight fans, and of course having a phone which is built with silverlight/xaml and that stuff... ?.... oh yeah, this means this idiot iss just an idiot who thinks he knows everything and, well for a reason he is former and its not a good reason.

this guy just wants attention and these blogs give him that. what a pathetic guy.

I'm inclined to believe him. I am a .NET developer and the lack of Silverlight on the agenda is troubling. And the word (or acronym rather) WPF was never spoken.

I didn't adopt Silverlight/WPF ever (stuck with WinForms) but was always on the outside looking in on WPF/SL. I have debated making a WPF "add-on" to my commercial app, but as he mentions, Expression Blend was just too damn hard to use. None of it made sense and as a one man shop the ROI was non-existent to low.

"What about Windows Phone 7" they showed how easy it was to port Silverlight code over, which they made it seem as though it was legacy. WP8 will certainly have a heavy focus on HTML5 apps.

The "hard on" as he says for HTML5 is apparent, and now I'm just sitting here wondering what to do.

ever notice it is always the former this-or-that from a company that has the biggest mouth. sure some brain-dead reporters will say well, he or she makes sense. but these nincompoops always sink back to the bottom of the media pond, with the rest of the scum, after their moment in the spotlight.

This is just all wanking. I'm not a developer, the only place I use Silverlight is Netflix and Lync's management GUI, and even I'm dimly aware of the fact that there is a public Silverlight 5 RC available with information on all the new features. Data has been flowing out about Silverlight since at least April 2011.

http://www.silverlight.net/lea...#039;s-new-in-silverlight-5

Maybe it's not on stage because at the moment there is nothing new to talk about, hm?

K.

Kaedrin said,
This is just all wanking. I'm not a developer, the only place I use Silverlight is Netflix and Lync's management GUI, and even I'm dimly aware of the fact that there is a public Silverlight 5 RC available with information on all the new features. Data has been flowing out about Silverlight since at least April 2011.

http://www.silverlight.net/lea...#039;s-new-in-silverlight-5

Maybe it's not on stage because at the moment there is nothing new to talk about, hm?

K.

Or maybe there is no Silverlight 6.

MattWeihl said,

Or maybe there is no Silverlight 6.

Seeing that Silverlight 5 has not even hit RTM yet, I would be very surprised about any announcements over Silverlight 6. Probably well over a year early to have that expectation.

I don't know where Silverlight is going or if it's going anywhere, but expecting news about the second to next product before the next product is complete? Well I expect folks expecting that to be disappointed!

Microsoft would certainly respond.
And I don't he may be allowed to talk about his ex-company like that, they make them sign all these agreements and stuff.

Omen1393 said,
So what happens to Windows Phone 7 then? I don't think it's dead there...

I imagine that WP8 will be based on W8 - potentially only on the "new" API…

I'm confused - what does Windows Phoen use? I mean, I wrrote a program using C# and XAML, published it to the marketplace, and my impressing was I was writing a silverlight program.

And since they demo'd re-writing a silverlight program into a W8 program, I don't quite understand how it's dead.

greenwizard88 said,
I'm confused - what does Windows Phoen use? I mean, I wrrote a program using C# and XAML, published it to the marketplace, and my impressing was I was writing a silverlight program.

And since they demo'd re-writing a silverlight program into a W8 program, I don't quite understand how it's dead.


WP7 is based on 2 APIs (which both are based on .NET): XNA and Sivlerlight

greenwizard88 said,
I'm confused - what does Windows Phoen use? I mean, I wrrote a program using C# and XAML, published it to the marketplace, and my impressing was I was writing a silverlight program.

And since they demo'd re-writing a silverlight program into a W8 program, I don't quite understand how it's dead.


Exactly. It's far from dead... Microsoft would be foolish to kill it.

Hum said,
Amusing .... I never did learn what Silverlight does
Well, in simple terms, it is Microsoft's "Flash".

Hum said,
Amusing .... I never did learn what Silverlight does

It's a full rich application framework, like WPF or Adobe Air - but in a small download and able to rn on the desktop and on the web. Most of the time it's used for videos, but it's powerful enough to create a wide variety of programs.

Am I missing something?
Silverlight is still supported in IE - as it's just an plugin. And you can still use Silverlight as you use WPF in classic mode for programs.

I would only agree that the new UI doesn't use Silverlight - opposed to WP7… - (or WPF for that matter) but instead seems to use a new XAML-based technology…
As long as XAML is still used => not that big an issue for me…

MFH said,
Am I missing something?

Nope, this guy appears to be high. XAML was mentioned a ton at the conference. And while I've never touched Silverlight (as a programmer), I'm fairly certain that XAML is featured heavily in Silverlight applications. Sure, they didn't use the name Silverlight very much, but the mentioned XAML plenty, so the support is definitely still there. And you can create Metro apps using XAML, so, I've no idea what this guy is talking about...

I agree. They didn't mention the word Silverlight, but C# + XAML was. And the code written for Windows 8 is Silverlight code that can be compiled and run on Windows Phone. Doesn't seem very dead to me.

I suppose I'll find out when I install Windows 8 and the dev tools tonight.

Uhyve said,

I'm fairly certain that XAML is featured heavily in Silverlight applications.

I always understood Silverlight as a "WPF for the web" - I'm aware that there are a few differences between these two and that they aim at different purposes.

Uhyve said,

Nope, this guy appears to be high. XAML was mentioned a ton at the conference. And while I've never touched Silverlight (as a programmer), I'm fairly certain that XAML is featured heavily in Silverlight applications. Sure, they didn't use the name Silverlight very much, but the mentioned XAML plenty, so the support is definitely still there. And you can create Metro apps using XAML, so, I've no idea what this guy is talking about...

+1

MFH said,

I always understood Silverlight as a "WPF for the web" - I'm aware that there are a few differences between these two and that they aim at different purposes.

Yes, but Silverlight can now run out of browser and is the foundation of WP7 apps as well. It's essentially become a viable replacement for other frameworks...

M_Lyons10 said,

Yes, but Silverlight can now run out of browser and is the foundation of WP7 apps as well. It's essentially become a viable replacement for other frameworks...

True, but weren't there some limitations in Silverlight compared to WPF?

MFH said,
Am I missing something?
Silverlight is still supported in IE - as it's just an plugin. And you can still use Silverlight as you use WPF in classic mode for programs.

I would only agree that the new UI doesn't use Silverlight - opposed to WP7… - (or WPF for that matter) but instead seems to use a new XAML-based technology…
As long as XAML is still used => not that big an issue for me…


Most of you people saying Silverlight is still alive don't appear to have very good knowledge of what Silverlight is. Silverlight is a framework. XAML is the language used when writing applications targeting that framework. In much the same way that .NET is a framework and C# is a language that can target the .NET framework.

Now, let's discuss Windows 8 and the changes Microsoft has made to it's API. Take a look at this slide from the BUILD keynote as it's a really great summary of what Microsoft is planning to do:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com...6143963169_3895da3425_z.jpg
There are a few simplifications: C and C++ can target .NET, Silverlight should probably be a box within .NET rather than with it, IE isn't really a System Service. But it gets the general point across. There are Desktop Applications, that target Win32 and .NET, and there are Metro Applications, that target WinRT. The Metro interface is one of the big features of Windows 8. Metro apps get access to: fullscreen mode, Snap feature, live tiles on the new Start Screen.

So, where does this leave Silverlight? Well, not in a very good place. Silverlight has never gotten mass adoption and it hasn't gotten the kind of development support behind it the whole .NET framework has. And now you have a new web capable framework coming out. Which Microsoft is putting all their weight behind and opening new features to. It's very telling that when Microsoft had a “we haven't forgotten about Silverlight” moment at the keynote, it was to show how you can port code from Silverlight to WinRT.

But let's extend this further. Here you have a new platform Microsoft is pushing that can handle Communications, Data, Graphics, and Devices. A platform that Microsoft is calling the next big thing. One not reliant on .NET. Microsoft is actively trying to get developers to port their code from .NET to WinRT. It's obvious that .NET is being deprecated for WinRT. Now that's not saying that .NET will disappear, Win32 is still around in Windows 8. But don't expect to see the kind of advancements and new features .NET is receiving currently to continue.

Shadrack said,
MS has commitment problems... Looks like silverlight will be joining Ken and Zune.

Since when is Zune dead? The Zune devices were always a vehicle to the service, which lives on on XBox, WP7 and Windows…

Shadrack said,
MS has commitment problems... Looks like silverlight will be joining Ken and Zune.

Silverlight's name may go away, but the streaming technologies and the client concepts that are being rolled through HTML5 are going to stay around too.

As for Zune, um, you have no idea what you are talking about, as Zune technologies were alive before the 'name' Zune existed, and are one of the 'biggest' set of technologies going forward at Microsoft right now.

Remove the word Zune, and instead look at the technologies that use and come from 'Zune'...

XBox Live Music and Video Streaming/Sales/Rentals (Even the non-Zune branded version was using Zune technologies). Just the XBox alone there are a lot of 'Zune' technologies in the shipping XBox 360 and the current updated set of features.

As for the Zune Marketplace, it is becoming the Windows Marketplace, and might drop the 'Zune' name, but Microsoft was forbidden from doing this before because of the anti-trust crap, which is how Apple got so big so fast, they grabbed the 'cohesion' aspects and marketed them, as they knew Microsoft legally could no longer all their technologies into the 'Windows' ecosystem.

Zune Hardware? Microsoft never wanted to make the hardware. They wanted to move from PlaysforSure v1 to PlaysforSure v2 which was more secure, offered new technologies, and new subscription model options. Creative and others didn't want to build devices as they were already being sued by Apple and saw it as losing battle.

This is when Microsoft took their hardware team, put together their specifications and built the Zune hardware, offering all the PlaysforSure v2 technologies for audio and video a few new concepts like WiFi syncing media devices, etc.

Zune is really built around the new set of audio and video technologies from Microsoft, which is why people are using 'Zune' technologies on their PCs and XBox and don't even realize it.

As the Zune Hardware came to an end, Microsoft accomplished what they wanted. They got the new 'concepts' that Zune introduced to become 'common' and they also got out of the business of making hardware.

Zune hardware today is made by HTC, Samsung, LG, etc, and they are built around the Microsoft specifications. However, you and other people know them as WP7.

(If you an iPod/iPad/iPhone user, there are about 20 specific technologies that Zune introduced that you are now also using as Apple adopted the concepts, and a few more that are coming with iOS and iPhone5, like WiFi syncing.)

Geesh...

MFH said,

Since when is Zune dead? The Zune devices were always a vehicle to the service, which lives on on XBox, WP7 and Windows…

Never i've seen a Zune in real life, funny!

mjedi7 said,

Never i've seen a Zune in real life, funny!

And yet I'm sure you've seen the SERVICE... Which was the point of his post...

M_Lyons10 said,

And yet I'm sure you've seen the SERVICE... Which was the point of his post...

It's hard to see the point of a post behind so much love for a company.

Seriously to say the Zune did not fail one needs to be blind.

LaP said,

It's hard to see the point of a post behind so much love for a company.

Seriously to say the Zune did not fail one needs to be blind.

Nobody can deny that it wasn't a financial failure!

But it was a success in a sense, that it brought about a design revolution across Microsoft. The Zune elements form the basis of Metro.

And Microsoft initiated the substitute, to the Apple-way, with this one product.

FMH said,

Nobody can deny that it wasn't a financial failure!

But it was a success in a sense, that it brought about a design revolution across Microsoft. The Zune elements form the basis of Metro.

And Microsoft initiated the substitute, to the Apple-way, with this one product.


All true. Additionally: Let's not forget that Zune is still a service that's widely available - admittedly they still have a lot of work to do outside the US…

MFH said,

All true. Additionally: Let's not forget that Zune is still a service that's widely available - admittedly they still have a lot of work to do outside the US…
And it may get a lot of traction in the near future, because of WP7/Nokia.

And more in the future, with Windows 8.

I'm going to say that the big problem here is that Silverlight never reached the kind of adoption level that it really needed to take off.

If MS started giving away the Expression studio for free, that might change things.

Thunderbuck said,
I'm going to say that the big problem here is that Silverlight never reached the kind of adoption level that it really needed to take off.

If MS started giving away the Expression studio for free, that might change things.

Yea it should have been a part of Visual Studio package, even the express editions.
I hope silverlight streaming video lives on.

Thunderbuck said,
If MS started giving away the Expression studio for free, that might change things.

I agree on the Express thing, actually I think that WPF would have spread wider - let's be honest: almost nobody uses it - if there would have been a free edition of Expression…

Thunderbuck said,
I'm going to say that the big problem here is that Silverlight never reached the kind of adoption level that it really needed to take off.

If MS started giving away the Expression studio for free, that might change things.


I think you have a point here. For proprietary technologies like Silverlight, it's essential to see good adoption, or else the closed technology will become its Achille's heel. ("Requires Silverlight plugin? Uh, what's that, never heard of it!")

Irony of this news is funny.

At the moment HTML5 can't substitute for streaming video and as far as I'm aware there is no adaptive bitrate in Flash that Silverlight offers.

Denis W said,
Irony of this news is funny.

At the moment HTML5 can't substitute for streaming video and as far as I'm aware there is no adaptive bitrate in Flash that Silverlight offers.

Of course Flash has adaptive bitrate. Flash has EVERYTHING Silverlight has and TONS more.

Boz said,

Of course Flash has adaptive bitrate. Flash has EVERYTHING Silverlight has and TONS more.


Can you expand on what Flash offers that is not available on Silverlight?

Boz said,

Of course Flash has adaptive bitrate. Flash has EVERYTHING Silverlight has and TONS more.

Flash certainly does have a ton more... like every IT department begging them to fix the damn thing so they don't have to package, certify and deploy yet ANOTHER Flash upgrade. Fix one bug, introduce 10 security holes. There is a reason Flash is referred to as one of the few virus's that we will deploy.

Denis W said,
Irony of this news is funny.

At the moment HTML5 can't substitute for streaming video and as far as I'm aware there is no adaptive bitrate in Flash that Silverlight offers.

Yes and No?

Flash has adaptive bitrate, even Apple's Quicktime can do adaptive bitrate...

The differences between the technologies is like comparing a horse to a ferrari, and it has more to do with what the server is doing with the content and how it is communicating to the client, than the actual codec or the client itself.

Microsoft is more than just adaptive and variable bitrate, it goes a few steps beyond what Apple and Flash and others offer in media streaming technology. Microsoft's smooth streaming does seamless transitions of bitrates, is codec agnostic, and has very low latency, so it can do smooth streaming with live broadcasts and even video conferencing. (Flash has a 10 second delay at best, and Apple's technology is a 30 second delay at best.)

Microsoft developed Smooth Streaming out of the WMV/WMA technologies for HD internet steaming, which at the time, was not easily done on below 10mbps connections.

This also required a 'smart client' and at the time Silverlight was the only answer, without making the users 'locked' into using Windows Media Player controls, that people don't like to do, and don't work on Linux or OS X.


Now as for HTML5... Yes it can support smooth streaming/adaptive streaming...

When Microsoft was trying to get more 'partners' for XBox Live and Zune content, they were hit with walls, people didn't want to lock into a client technology to support the smooth streaming technologies. As it would shove non-XBox/Zune/Windows into a box of having less features and more of the 'buffering...' crap people are tired of seeing from Flash and Apple media streaming technologies.

This is when Microsoft turned the ship and worked out HTML5 video smooth streaming client technologies. Much like it worked with SIlverlight, but this time around it is using HTML5 technologies and web scripting instead of Silverlight and .NET code.

It is also leveraging that with IE9 they able to handle HTML5 content faster than anyone, as IE9 is not a browser, but a HTTP content compiling engine.

(Other browsers are 'document viewers' and IE9 treats all web pages like compiled Applications. Sadly, Google/Apple/Webkit/Firefox, etc don't seem to 'get' this, and are still trying to make fast web 'document viewers' instead of compiling the web to run like an application in a safe manner. This is why some HTML5 IETestDrive sample pages run literally 1000 times faster than the latest test version of Chrome with GPU features enabled. Dynamic content is an 'application' and is even called RIA, and should be compiled like an application, instead of just 'displayed' like a document.)

So HTML5 will work fine, especially with Microsoft video streaming technologies, that are easy as they are HTTP based and don't require a special 'media server' to distribute.


As for Silverlight... It is 'kinda' going away, as it and HTML5 are becoming more of the same, as Silverlight is just an XAML based technology anyway, and HTML5 is a variation of the same set of concepts. Look for Microsoft Silverlight technology to be introduced to solve problems with HTML5 and plug holes in HTML5 as the standard continues to advance.

The whole IE 'compiling' HTML5 is why Windows 8 can use HTML5 Apps at near and native code speeds.

**There is a difference between an old concept like JIT compliers for javascript and compiling an entire HTML5/CSS3 web page and treating all aspects like code, and not just the scripting aspects. So don't confuse this when reading the above comparison of Chrome and IE9.


I stopped at "a former employee" the sole purpose that wp7 depends on Silverlight says enough where its going.

A disgruntle ex employee maybe, cool story Mr.. Barnes!

flexkeyboard said,

- - - - -
A disgruntle ex employee maybe, cool story Mr.. Barnes!

Probably.
I quote his last post:
I ruffled feathers and made friends, I long past cared what people thought of me and i feel that 50% of Microsoft wanted me fired while 50% wanted me promoted, it was the 25% that lied I always had trouble figuring out.

MFH said,

So there were always problems while he was working at Microsoft…
SO many problems that the % of people working at MS equals 125%!

I shouldn't knock him though, 4 out of 3 people struggle with statistics anyway.

MFH said,

So there were always problems while he was working at Microsoft…

I went through his blog http://www.riagenic.com/ and he hates a lot of things happening at Microsoft.
And predicted some things very accurately. Long before we knew it(- it has some thing to do with his previous employment.....).

He doesn't like the direction taken with Metro.

Do I like Metro on Windows Phone 7. F*** no.

And talks trash about EVERYTHING Microsoft. Literally!
Just visit his this post: http://www.riagenic.com/archives/563

And we can be sure that he shouldn't have made it to the news. He is just a TROLL who was once a full-time Microsoft employee.

I wouldn't believe anything this guy claims at the moment…

BTW: MS confirmed that all the traditional APIs are still present, so this stuff is still supported! They won't drop any of it. if they discontinue it, it would still be available for at least a decade for the sake of backwards compatibility - it's just how MS works They are not Apple after all…

Edited by MFH, Sep 14 2011, 1:39am :

zeke009 said,
SO many problems that the % of people working at MS equals 125%!

?? There were 50% that wanted him fired and 50% that wanted him promoted - at least that's what he claims.

The 25% that "lied" to him are faced with 75% that didn't lie to him…

But as you say: most people have problems with statistics

flexkeyboard said,
I stopped at "a former employee" the sole purpose that wp7 depends on Silverlight says enough where its going.

A disgruntle ex employee maybe, cool story Mr.. Barnes!


Agreed. It simply would not make sense to kill Silverlight / .NET...

Whoa! So many people are quickly firing at the messenger. Why do you guys hate Scott Barnes who's being nice and telling you what's coming?

S. Barnes has been spot on ever since he broke the story on Windows team backstabbing the Dev team on SilverLight:
He said WPF was dead, and sure enough WPF was all radio silence and that's Microsoft way of abandoning a technology.
He said SilverLight was under siege, and sure enough we had Microsoft first declaring a 'shift' in last year's PDC and then basically sidelining SL in the MIX that had been SL's show-case event.
He said Windows team was screwing with Dev team, and sure enough did you see ScottGu aka Mr.DotNet first being moved away from SilverLight team and now not even making an appearance at annual biggest developer event?
He said Windows team is attempting an old-school Embrace-Extend-Extinguish tactic with HTML5 and sure enough they first talked about native HTML in that June demo and now is showing all these backdoor native to Win8 only goodies to let Web App run smoothly.

What else does it take to convince you S.Barnes has been right? Perhaps ScottGu's resignation from Microsoft (God forbid) later on would do? Do not count on WP7 to help SilverLight. The world out there is Win8 can be easily slimmed down into a handset. Plus WP is not having a big enough market share to have a voice in Microsoft. Heck, did you guys notice how much profit the Server & Dev team make last time? Ain't matter. They are still shoved around by the Win Div.

This is a disaster. Microsoft as a tech company is failing. It is failing when their teams (Win Div/ IE Div), in a bid to stay relevant, play internal politics and backstab another team (Dev Div) on a fairly good product (SilverLight) only to pick up garbage (HTML5/JS) that help them survive. It's a sham. It's a tragedy.

dlmaniac said,
He said WPF was dead, and sure enough WPF was all radio silence and that's Microsoft way of abandoning a technology.

You must have seen a different keynote than as WPF was as much mentioned as anything that's related to the development of "traditional" programs.
By your Logik they may abandon DX as they didn't mention it either; notice how they only say "hardware acceleration" not DirectCompute!

BTW: Anders Hejlsberg to me is still Mr. .NET…

MFH said,

BTW: Anders Hejlsberg to me is still Mr. .NET…

Anders Hejlsberg is more appropriately Mr. C# as he's a language guru. Either way just about anyone from the Dev Div is pushed aside by Win Div @ Build which was supposed to be a 'DEV' event.

dlmaniac said,

Anders Hejlsberg is more appropriately Mr. C# as he's a language guru. Either way just about anyone from the Dev Div is pushed aside by Win Div @ Build which was supposed to be a 'DEV' event.


But it's a developer event about a new operating system being announced. It would be more surprising if they were not leading the event with the developer tools playing the sideline.

Speaking of the manager, he seems like an extremely bitter person that is spouting out hate. During the keynote, they explicitly had a demo of Silverlight running as-is, then in the new app model, and finally on WP7 with a few changes.

As a developer, I am pretty excited with the future ramifications of WinRT, the unified API that exists in lieu of Win32. They didn't show a C++ demo (at least not with up to 20 minutes left when I lost Internet connection), but they shows JavaScript and Silverlight talking to the API. That's not dead. That's extended. Bring on Silverlight 5 and WP8 on the Windows 8 kernel.

pickypg said,

They didn't show a C++ demo (at least not with up to 20 minutes left when I lost Internet connection),

They didn't, but that's no problem. MS is deeply into the "C++ Renaissance"…

MFH said,

MS is deeply into the "C++ Renaissance"…
Oh, yeah. I did not mean to give the impression that I thought that they were killing off C++. They very clearly called it out, particularly in the diagram showing off WinRT compared to Win32, and they have been doing some interesting things with C++ recently (particularly with the revelation that XAML was coming to it, as well as the automatic GPU code execution that they demoed--unrelated to Windows 8--a few months ago).