Foxconn intern claims PS4 was sabotaged during manufacturing

According to a snapshot of a deleted forum post, interns at a Foxconn manufacturing plant in Yantai, China have deliberately sabotaged the PS4 citing working conditions at the plant.

The allegations first appeared on the IGN forums, which was locked shortly after. The author then tried to elaborate more here. Below is a snapshot of the actual post:

The intern noted that because Foxconn didn’t treat them well, they didn’t treat the PS4 well. Stating: “The ps4 console we assemble can be turned on at best.” which may explain the pulsing blue light issues that many people have experienced, mainly on Amazon shipments where about 33% of the total verified reviewers have reported the issue.

Although these claims cannot be verified, it's no secret that Foxconn has been in the news frequently for their alleged mistreatment of workers, and possibly comes as no surprise that this sort of retaliation is an easy thing for workers to carry out on the Day One release of the console.

In any case, we'll be keeping an eye out for any sort of verification on these claims as Sony investigates the issue themselves.

Source & Images: Corrupted Cartridge

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Since nobody has posted a translation, here is one. I read and write English and Chinese fluently.

Translation

Such a high-tech product represents a key effort from Sony and Microsoft to fight Apple. But, unfortunately, it is little Japan that gave the order to Foxconn, and Foxconn in turn gave it to this little group of Beixin [ed: this could mean several institutions] interns. This time they are wrong, very wrong; Foxconn doesn't even see us as people, and so we don't see it as a high-end product. We do nothing but cope [ed: with what exactly isn't stated]; our highest expectation is that this batch of devices turns on normally, haha! When the PS4 comes out on 9/9, it will be the day Sony has huge losses, and Foxconn is forced to close!! Let's all pray together!

The comment implies they sabotaged their batch of PS4s through the sarcastic remark about them turning on. But, there may be an element of nationalism here; the author makes a point of saying the product is Japanese in origin.

Problem with these kind of things is that the problems don't show right away and badly put pieces eventually give out and then you see the full effect of the damage months after initial shipments. I think I'll stick to buying new consoles 1 to 2 years after launch.

Interesting. I am skeptical at most because as others have pointed out, this was just with the ps4 when Foxcon manufactures allot more then just that. I would think this was meant to put a more positive note in for Sony.

We're all so spoiled now, we pay next to nothing for our shiny WalMart products because they are all built by slave labor in China, yet we still complain that they cost too much. So ridiculous. It's true the prices would be higher if things were built here at home but at the same time if everything was built here again we'd have so many more jobs, people would be able to afford them and the quality would be a lot better. Of course the greedy companies want to squeeze every penny they can so it will never happen, they'll always exploit the cheapest labor they can find.

I would happily pay more for a quality product made at home by workers who are treated well and paid reasonable wages. If you would rather pay a little less for inferior workmanship made by poor people who are treated like slaves then that's kind of sad.

TRC said,
I would happily pay more for a quality product made at home by workers who are treated well and paid reasonable wages. If you would rather pay a little less for inferior workmanship made by poor people who are treated like slaves then that's kind of sad.

Yeah I agree, unfortunately it's not quite that simple.

Let's say Sony decides to make them in Japan at £449, but Microsoft stays in China at £429. Then MS decides to drop to a straight £399 for marketing tactics. Most consumers are driven by their wallets and won't even think about where/who made them.

TRC said,
I would happily pay more for a quality product made at home by workers who are treated well and paid reasonable wages. If you would rather pay a little less for inferior workmanship made by poor people who are treated like slaves then that's kind of sad.

This. I think most people would too given a side by side option. Trouble is most the time when there is an option, its not top of the line or missing "X" features. Maybe that shouldn't be an excuse either...don't know. Still, I'd pay more for identical made at home any day of the week.

Japanese game consoles use to be 'Made in Japan' not too long ago. Did it become expensive all of a sudden to produce there?

I guess if China instilled laws for for it's workers, corporations would take their business to another country to reduce costs.

That will probably happen eventually. Japan went from making cheap junk to making high quality products; remember the line in Back to the Future? As the quality improved so did the costs so the companies left Japan and went to China where they could pay next to nothing for labor again.

If China cleans up their act and starts treating their workers fairly the companies will probably move once again, maybe everything will be made in Somalia or somewhere and we'll be reminiscing about the days when you could get quality products from China.

Isnt this the same place apple makes their stuff? If so this doesn't surprise me I remember seeing an article where they had to put suicide nets out side the buildings to catch the jumpers from all the over working that went on there. Some folks reported like 98 hours overtime.

Did you know Foxconn is a Taiwanese corporation?

From Wikipedia:

"Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., Ltd., trading as Foxconn Technology Group, is a Taiwanese multinational electronics contract manufacturing company headquartered in Tucheng, New Taipei, Taiwan. It is the world's largest electronics contract manufacturer measured by revenues."

Sonne said,
Pretty much all of its manufacturing is done in China

And the British company I work for has 3 plants in India. Doesn't make it an Indian company, or an Indian issue if there are labour issues at those plants.

Seems there would be robots assembling these things by now. I did some network work at a factory here in the US that made military equipment and it was all done on a robotic assembly line. I don't see why these consoles could not be done the same way?

I find it kind of comical when people say "never buy a day one product". The odds are you'll be just fine, and even if there is some issue found, the manufacturer will take care of it under the warranty.

Why is that comical. There are several products I bought that the manufacturer never fixed or worked as promised. Most resent purchase was the Ceton Echo. It's now almost a year since its release and that product still doesn't do what it was advertised to do. As an early adopter of tech products I could probably list another dozen or so products that never worked as intended and yes there are even a couple of Sony products in that list.

If "Day One" products were so perfect then the manufacturers wouldn't need to release modified revisions of those products. Just like early adopters of software, bugs are found and patches are implemented.

If this is true, I'm sorry to say, it won't really change the perception people have about the PS4... Most people won't know, or won't care. The buck stops at Sony so to speak in the consumers mind...

Since Xbox One is manufactured at the same place I hope that Microsoft does have a better inspection in place to check the final quality for each unit before they are boxed up. Microsoft can't afford another RROD debacle.

I know I keep hearing all this "oh its with the 15% hardware failure so im ok with it" crap. To me this is not just a freaking computer part this is a whole computer that should have been turned on and tested atleast beore shipped like any pc company does. I totally understand units breaking after weeks or whatever but most of these seems like DOA

ironically foxconn is becoming "too big to fail" now, hard to find another oem has the capacity to pick up big orders like iphone, ps4 and xbox.

Aside from it sucking for the entertainment seeking wealthy (compared to Chinese workers anyway), it's probably the only way they have at lashing out.

Manufacturing in the U.S. at honest numbers would add around $20 to the price tag....I'm willing to pay that if it means American workers can have jobs...hell, I'd pay that if Chinese workers could have a little better life too.

exactly, american manufacturing is going to take time to get back up to speed, I would like to see it back here. In the meantime there has to be something that the tech giants can do to help the workers at the plants. Is there no such thing as the FLA for the industry?

wv@gt said,
Is there no such thing as the FLA for the industry?

There probably is, but would any company in China actually follow safety guidelines when workers (aka slaves) are so expendable?

Hahaiah said,
Aside from it sucking for the entertainment seeking wealthy (compared to Chinese workers anyway), it's probably the only way they have at lashing out.

Manufacturing in the U.S. at honest numbers would add around $20 to the price tag....I'm willing to pay that if it means American workers can have jobs...hell, I'd pay that if Chinese workers could have a little better life too.

How about students being forced to do jobs they were not there to do?

That is what makes the story kind of messed up.

Hahaiah said,
Manufacturing in the U.S. at honest numbers would add around $20 to the price tag....

Try about $1000 for the ps4. The required type of american workers would demand $40 and hour + benefits + pension + union representation. Probably would be over $1000 even.

rippleman said,

Try about $1000 for the ps4. The required type of american workers would demand $40 and hour + benefits + pension + union representation. Probably would be over $1000 even.

Even though your price point is likely way off, a PS4 probably should sell for $1000, since it is a computer in a shiny box.

It's likely Sony takes a huge hit in profit on the consoles, just to get it in the hands of the average low-middle-class consumer.

Also, I'm sure workers would be happy to work for anything above the current minimum wage, not $40/hr. After all, it's an assembly line job, not an IT job.

yes if these were made in the US or Canada where labour rates are quite a bit higher it would add on more than just $20 to the pricetag. you actually looking at it adding on 100's of dollars to the pricetag.

Enron said,
Simple solution, build with robots instead of people.

That's what would actually happen if it was manufactured in the US.

That, on top of more highly skilled workers would decrease the defect rate and actually make it cheaper to manufacture than one might think.

Binary said,

Even though your price point is likely way off, a PS4 probably should sell for $1000, since it is a computer in a shiny box.

It's likely Sony takes a huge hit in profit on the consoles, just to get it in the hands of the average low-middle-class consumer.

Also, I'm sure workers would be happy to work for anything above the current minimum wage, not $40/hr. After all, it's an assembly line job, not an IT job.


I doubt they'd be willing to work for just a little bit more than minimum wage. You have burger flippers at McDonald's demanding to be paid $15. When they do nothing that requires any sort of skill.

You're also forgetting that they may want pension plans, unions, benefits etc. While these things mat be good for the employee they also add cost to the final product.

Then finally the shareholders of sony aren't going to accept a massive smaller profit margin and will demand it be increased. Which will make the console more expensive.

-Razorfold said,

I doubt they'd be willing to work for just a little bit more than minimum wage. You have burger flippers at McDonald's demanding to be paid $15. When they do nothing that requires any sort of skill.

You're also forgetting that they may want pension plans, unions, benefits etc. While these things mat be good for the employee they also add cost to the final product.

Then finally the shareholders of sony aren't going to accept a massive smaller profit margin and will demand it be increased. Which will make the console more expensive.


Hmmm mcdonalds starts employees at minimum wage here, which is $10.25.

Skilled or not, same situation applies here, you don't really need skills to work on a production line. Well, most anyways.

Binary said,


Hmmm mcdonalds starts employees at minimum wage here, which is $10.25.

Skilled or not, same situation applies here, you don't really need skills to work on a production line. Well, most anyways.


Well no you really don't but they'll still want better pay. You could look at it this way:

Number of Foxconn employees: 1.23 million (let's say they have 1 million who work the assembly line)
Average pay: $2 a day
Total pay per day: $2 million a day for all 1 million employees

US Minimum wage: $7.25 an hour (higher in some states)
Total daily pay in the US (assuming 8 hour day): $58 million

That's a massssive difference. $2 million vs. $58 million. And that's just assuming minimum wage with no benefits, no overtime etc.

Except that, as Apple is finding, there's not much human-time involved in putting chips into sockets. See: Mac Pro being assembled in US.

A lot of assembly is automated (especially the logic boards), thanks to improvements in robotics etc. (I'd imagine trying to have a human solder the tiny surface-mounted components would leave much room for error... Especially someone that's being overworked and underpaid.)

And then you have to also consider the "import" cost of a final device, vs importing the vastly cheaper components.

Also, foundries where these chips are being manufactured are often not located in China... See: Samsung's foundry in Austin Texas where they manufacture chips for Apple's iPhones (among other things).

-Razorfold said,

I doubt they'd be willing to work for just a little bit more than minimum wage. You have burger flippers at McDonald's demanding to be paid $15. When they do nothing that requires any sort of skill.

Wait...

$15 is below what minimum wage should be in the USA, and minimum wage should be geared towards untrained/unskilled workers.

Everyone is so afraid that if unskilled labor starts making a livable wage, the cost of goods will skyrocket or it will be a larger economic ruin. At worst, there will be an initial cost backlash by greedy companies to make a point.

Think about it like this, other countries have a higher minimum wage, yet their retail products and prices are often less than in the USA.

Using your 'burger' example directly. Australia has a minimum around $16.50, the USA's minimum wage is under $8.00. However, in Australia a Big Mac costs people $.50 less than it does in the USA.

Do you see that 'unskilled' labor should maybe be making a livable wage?

Also consider than most people making minimum wage in the USA are on some form of government assistance. So the nation is already paying to subsidize their wages already by allowing a low minimum wage.

You either have a 'living wage' or you have a subsidized society. The 'liberals' in the USA are the ones pushing for a higher minimum wage, so people won't be dependent on government assistance like they are now.

Wait...

$15 is below what minimum wage should be in the USA, and minimum wage should be geared towards untrained/unskilled workers.

Everyone is so afraid that if unskilled labor starts making a livable wage, the cost of goods will skyrocket or it will be a larger economic ruin. At worst, there will be an initial cost backlash by greedy companies to make a point.


No...the point is there are many skilled labor positions that initially pay $15 an hour. Raising the minimum wage to $15 then ****s over those people because their companies will just go "oh well you're still making $15 so why should you be paid more."

Hell I make $16 an hour doing a job that cost me $100k to get (flight instructor). I really don't want to be making the same wage as someone who is working at WalMart. During the winter many of the other flight instructors at my job have to get second jobs just to be able to live because their flight time drops to 0.

And of random note, Australian McDonalds sizes aren't as big as American ones. Things may have changed recently, not sure, but when I was last there they were definitely smaller. Their large is like the size of an American medium. Sad state of our society eh?

Except that, as Apple is finding, there's not much human-time involved in putting chips into sockets. See: Mac Pro being assembled in US.

The Mac Pro also costs $3000. And did they mean manufacture or assemble? There's a difference. Manufactured means 100% of the product was made in the country specified. Assembled means the product was made somewhere else and then just put together in the specified country.

For a moment, let's assume that you're right, and the price of PS4 manufactured in the USA is really going to be $1000, because the workers will "demand $40/hour + benefits + pension + union representation".

This invites the question: _you_ are in the USA, and you are also demanding said $40/hour + benefits + pension". And you are getting them. So, pray tell, what entitles you to those benefits which does not apply to those people?

You want to have your cake and eat it, too: enjoy a first world salary, but then stretch it out that much longer by purchasing products that are made with much cheaper (and much worse, working condition wise) third word labor. In other words, you are not willing to use your money to pay a decent living wage to your own citizens, but feel that you're entitled to getting one from them.

Guess what? The train doesn't stop here, and in the end, it'll be _your_ job that will be outsourced to China. It won't matter to you then whether PS5 will cost $400 or $1000, because you won't be able to afford it, either way.

And if you want to keep your job and your quality of life, then understand that this is only possible when you are willing to pay for the same for other people. It doesn't even matter if they are your copatriots or not - if workers in China start getting $40/hr, then your job won't be lost to them because there won't be an economic reason for it to be outsourced in the first place.

Agree, it's irresponsible and short sighted. It's exactly what every corporate charter demands, profits at all costs.

It's the responsibility of the government, yes the gubment, to keep that it check, you remember tariffs and life before NAFTA and CAFTA? There are many simple ways to protect a country's own interests here, but the U.S. has systematically allowed corporate interests to side step every single one of them, nice and legal. Even unions, which anyone with a brain can see absolutely helped so many workers over the years, went off the rails and abused their power to accelerate the whole downward spiral.

> The intern noted that because Foxconn didn't treat them well, they didn't treat the PS4 well.

...and because so many of them are now defective, they're going to have to manufacture more as replacement units. Didn't think that through, did you Sparky?

_dandy_ said,
> The intern noted that because Foxconn didn't treat them well, they didn't treat the PS4 well.

...and because so many of them are now defective, they're going to have to manufacture more as replacement units. Didn't think that through, did you Sparky?

These weren't 'regular' workers, they were Interns that were forced or not get course credit to do assembly (not their job) to meet Sony's production demands.

So 'sparky' did think it through as it got attention back in October and the practice was stopped because it was not 'legal'.

Foxconn and Sony had to know there would be issues back then, as the interns were not trained to even do the assembly work; they also knew the students were not happy about the forced labor which should have brought even more questions about quality control.

Mobius Enigma said,

to meet Sony's production demands.

they don't work for sony, they work for foxconn... Sony didn't force anything, they put in an order and were told a date for delivery. Foxconn is responsible for production.

rippleman said,

they don't work for sony, they work for foxconn... Sony didn't force anything, they put in an order and were told a date for delivery. Foxconn is responsible for production.

That's an overly simplistic way of looking at it. The company who sells the product has a responsibility for the whole supply chain. Sony are just as responsible, if not more, for turning a blind eye to these labour abuses.

rippleman said,

they don't work for sony, they work for foxconn... Sony didn't force anything, they put in an order and were told a date for delivery. Foxconn is responsible for production.

Sony DID push for more production after Microsoft announced it was pulling back launch dates in regions to meet demand. (This was when their marketing plan was working: Whatever Microsoft does, do the opposite.)

It wasn't until after the October fiasco with Foxconn that Sony also started pulling back release date availability expectations.

Did Sony force Foxconn to do dubious stuff, no. Did Sony maybe put unreasonable demands on Foxconn, probably if Foxconn was willing to break the law to meet their demands.

We need to stop manufacturing overseas.

Yes product prices may be higher, but we won't have to deal with this BS, and we'll actually be giving our own people jobs.

Let's see how these chinese workers feel when they have no source of income because of their antics.

Yes, some of the conditions are deplorable, but at least they have jobs.

This is now the second mass tampering from foxconn, the first being the iPhone 5 dings and scratches. It's unacceptable for them to be ruining products people pay good money for, just because they can't afford said product, and have to work extreme hours to get decent pay.

I understand this may come off as uncaring.

I know some of the working conditions are terrible, however that is not the consumers fault, that is Foxconns fault.

These workers are basically throwing a temper tantrum in store because things aren't going their way, and in turn are disturbing the other shoppers.

I completely agree. Secondly though many companies that manufacture overseas participate in the Fair Labor association and many companies have special teams that visit the factories to ensure that the workers are working in good conditions and have a good wage. The tech industry as a whole is probably one of the worst when it comes to this, the apparel industry like with Nike used to be this way. If I were Sony, I would use this as a turning point to either get out of FoxConn or work with them to ensure better conditions. There really needs to be some new standards set up in the Tech industry, especially since all the garbage circuit boards end up back in landfills overseas again.

I remember reading a report of the cost to build an Iphone in china vs in the USA. The prices are substantially different. If we some how switched our electronics would no longer be affordable.

As for the workers, they are people and have some human rights and the only way they will be noticed is if they kill themselves or damage the products because that the only damn time I see them on the news. I would certainly say a persons life is far more important than what jimmy is getting under the tree.

Binary said,
We need to stop manufacturing overseas.

yeah, except that Sony is Japanese and if they didn't outsource the PS4 manufacturing it would still be "manufacturing overseas" for you.

gonchuki said,

yeah, except that Sony is Japanese and if they didn't outsource the PS4 manufacturing it would still be "manufacturing overseas" for you.

Yeah, I should have said stop manufacturing in China.

These interns are not happy to have the job. They would prefer not to have to take it at all. This one is a student at some secondary school or university, probably studying for a job in technology. But, in all likelihood, he's been told he cannot graduate unless he takes such an internship, because of corrupt school dealings or because he's being forced to do this to pass some class. It's a terrible, terrible system, but these interns are probably hoping that they will force Foxconn to find their workers elsewhere.

That situation is not altogether entirely different from unpaid internships here in the US. Many students find themselves forced to work for literally nothing for promises of "career advancement", something that is artificially demanded in order to obtain free work. At least the interns at Foxconn are paid, if even minimally.

Do not take this as a slight against Chinese manufacturing in general. Most employees are diligent and hard working, and will actually be happy to hold a job which benefits their family and provides financial security (even if it pays very little, it is better than the subsistence farming alternative). If nothing else, this will hopefully convince companies in China to stop the practice of illegally coercing students to become poorly paid interns.

Most of Foxconn's factories are in china, people have to really start pressuring companies/corporations to stop using cheap chinese labor even if it means paying a little more for our products.

If we didn't have cheap labor producing our products the prices could then skyrocket, products could become unaffordable and products/companies would soon seize to exists. Maybe once china's labor prices go up we'll stop producing there...

Even if this is true or not...it's the PRIME reason I NEVER buy a "version 1.0" of anything electronic anymore. I wait until the 2nd "batch" comes around. Just like you really don't want to attend a fancy new eatin' place the day it opens. Let them "season" it out a bit, let the hoards of "gotta be the first" to field test it, then get one. Bless the early adopters, but I'm more into STABLE, than bleeding edge.

I'm soooooooo sure the defective ratio is just 0.4% but wait, where did I hear that before? That's the same ratio they declared for the PS3 where almost everybody I know that bought a launch model had it dying with YLOD or various blu-ray drive laser issues.

francescob said,
I'm soooooooo sure the defective ratio is just 0.4% but wait, where did I hear that before? That's the same ratio they declared for the PS3 where almost everybody I know that bought a launch model had it dying with YLOD or various blu-ray drive laser issues.

The actual failure rate for the PS3 turned out to be 10%.

My PS4 has no issues and was purchased from Amazon. I know about 10 other people with no issues either. I really don't think it's high failure rate percentage wise, but I guess we'll eventually find out.

francescob said,
I'm soooooooo sure the defective ratio is just 0.4% but wait, where did I hear that before? That's the same ratio they declared for the PS3 where almost everybody I know that bought a launch model had it dying with YLOD or various blu-ray drive laser issues.

I have a PAL launch model PS3 (Made in China), I have been playing Black Flag all weekend on it.

RageOfFury said,
Is Microsoft using Foxconn for the Xbox One?

Just about anyone wanting stuff assembled for global distribution on a massive scale is having to use them.

winrez said,
Yes apparently they are building them in the next room

I bet the PS4 interns got ****ed when they saw the Xbox assemblers going "home" after their shifts were over.

TruckWEB said,
And where is the XBox One build? Will it be sabotaged too?

Depends on whether Foxconn forced the Interns/Students to assemble them as well, when that was wasn't their 'job'.

The story so far only points to Foxconn forcing interns to assemble PS4s.

If Foxconn also did this with XB1 production, they I wouldn't be surprised to see the same backlash.

I would be surprised if Microsoft allowed this to happen, as they are not known for forcing higher production out of vendors.

If anyone was watching the news, when Microsoft announced they were going to reduce availability by region to meet launch demands, Sony used this against Microsoft in the media. This later led to the discovery of Sony's increased demands on Foxconn that was discovered in October and at the heart of the Intern scandal.


(If it is discovered that Microsoft knew about the Foxconn child/intern/etc labor scandal and did nothing about it, they should be raked through the news, just as Sony probably should.)

Not that I'd want anyone to have a DOA console - especially given the cost - it would be an interesting form of covert but direct action on the employees of Foxconn. The hypocrisy is that I'm sat typing this on an iPhone :-/

like I said above this story seems a bit far fetched as quality control would have picked up on the defective units as soon as they were powered on, this seems more like a scapegoat story to cover sony's ass.

compl3x said,
Hot dogs have recipes?

If I were a Foxconn employee that didn't get paid, I still wouldn't eat a dog that wasn't properly cooked.

Pupik said,
Can someone translate the text in the image and verify that it's not a hot dog recipe?

I've used a free online ocr tool, then google translator. Now you might understand much better:


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Did not treat us as people follow, looking puppets loquat it when the door did not quit Hispanic Wei production 8 sprouts, besides halo should also be puppets puppets inch inch, this sac t production Lu Jian alum tank is intended lotus feet
Yoke] ho chu ketone more, noisy l units, inlay DSG 9 月 9 officially listed when l ho Jiangxi Sony loss mandarin Glaze! Shi Lei Ae win the day!! Common
Reed pray it!

Benny, why did you tangle soft joint units of phosphorus from your mouth? If you're so against benzene intrinsic relationships, put your magic shirt back on and stop putting mandarin glazed crabs in the PS4s for massive damage.

These interns are hurting Sony more then they are hurting Foxconn. But on the other hand Foxconn has a terrible reputation and Sony shouldn't have done business with them in the first place. On top of the high failure rate will Sony now also face issues with the PS4 is being made under inhuman conditions?

In my opinion a high failure rate is inherent to a new product. I don't consider this too terrible. Dealing with Foxconn is a much bigger offense.

high failure rate down to manufacturing is one thing but failure rate because people are deliberately messing it up is another matter. Foxconn do suck, did ya read about these IT interns? something like forced to work like 12 hours a day otherwise theyd be kicked out and wouldnt pass there exams/degrees? treating the people who may be building stuff for them to manufacture like crap isnt going to end well for them in the long run

Ronnet said,
In my opinion a high failure rate is inherent to a new product. I don't consider this too terrible. Dealing with Foxconn is a much bigger offense.

What a load of rubbish! Why do people keep saying this? People need to stop accepting a sub par product as if it's ok because they are early adopters. As far as i am concerned if Sony (or anyone else) deems a product suitable for market then it should work. end of.

If this situation is true then thats fine it's out of Sony's hands.. maybe, where was the QC?

If there is a possibility of wide spread failure from day one then the product isn't ready and shouldn't be on the shelves.

I have worked as QC and basically you are allowed to take a unit off a line, test it and if there are faults go to the supervisor for the line it came off, unless multiple units exhibit the same fault it generally won;t be flagged and I'm betting not all units were sabotaged on the same lines, just every so few which makes it harder to trace.

Maybe QC was in on it too, anyway.

Ronnet said,

In my opinion a high failure rate is inherent to a new product. I don't consider this too terrible. Dealing with Foxconn is a much bigger offense.

As Uplift said:
What a line of rubbish!

It's not like it's a first gen player even. They've been making these things for years now. Something as simple as new model does not even allow for defects, of any kind of magnitude!

cork1958 said,

As Uplift said:
What a line of rubbish!

It's not like it's a first gen player even. They've been making these things for years now. Something as simple as new model does not even allow for defects, of any kind of magnitude!

I wish I could remove the word 'high' as I mean relative to old products. Indeed a failure rate of more then 10% is unacceptable even for new products. However the average failure rate is much higher then people think.

For example we all know somebody who had a certain device that broke down. For example you could know about 20 people with an iPhone and one person's iPhone died. That's still a failure rate of 5%. Sure some people know nobody whose iPhone broke down but someone else knows two people. My point is that failure rates are higher then you think when you express them in a percentage, even if only based on first hand experiences.

Sony has been making Playstations for a long time, sure. But in terms of design this is something very different. More importantly they have outsourced the actual production of the device. And this seems to be a production issue not a design issue.

this all seems a bit silly and a bit of a scapegoat story to cover sony's ass, im sure even if the products were tampered with there is quality control in place to pick up stuff like this.

korupt_one said,
this all seems a bit silly and a bit of a scapegoat story to cover sony's ass, im sure even if the products were tampered with there is quality control in place to pick up stuff like this.

Whether its sabotage or just bad design/production, quality control should have picked it up, true enough. But apparantly they didnt (or they did and still released it but that would be a whole new level of wrong).

So what do you mean with scapegoat story? Do you think this is in some wat (other then sabotage) intentional?

korupt_one said,
either way you look at it, Sony must have known about the problem and let the shipments go out anyway.

Ok so with 'scapegoat' you mean that you think Sony quality control new about it and the sabotage story is too hide it. I was a bit confused about that.

I dont think this is the case but now I understand your comment.

deadonthefloor said,

My PS4 works but my neighbor's doesn't.

OMG PS4 has 50% failure rate!!!!!!

...

Not at all what I'm saying.

I'm saying that people consider a failure rate of 5% to be incredibly high while firsthand experiences often match this but in numbers it seems less extreme.

So its the opposite of your comment. Failure rates of new products are sometimes 5% and consumers think its less.

If this is true then I'm afraid to say this % that will be DOA or have some sort of issues could be very high. Best thing to do is wait on this, which is what I planned to do from the beginning in part because of it's weak lineup of games.

to bad for sony, i really hope its a tiny fraction of the devices, sony is in a bad financial shape as at is, hope it wont damage their sales.

p.s
never had PS, but if i to choose regardless of this news, il go XBOne.

to bad for sony

Have you read about Foxconn at all? If you have your sympathies wouldn't lie with a multi-national company, rather with the thousands of mistreated men and women who literally kill themselves to provide people like us with shiny things, which we use to cry and bicker about ridiculous things such as which company is better at it.

Steven P. said,
If it turns out to be a Foxconn issue then Foxconn will most likely have to pick up the bill for that.

The lost market share will be picked up by Sony, rest assured and this is far more serious.

Don't they make more than PS4s at Foxconn, if so, shouldn't there be other damaged products? I wonder why they would only damage the PS4.

Besides, these idiots would be damaging Sony more than Foxconn, and if Foxconn get hurt, they loose their jobs anyway.

Sony is the only one getting hurt here as this could explain the high failure rates people are throwing around and especially if they are made under very poor working conditions.

Thief000 said,
Sony is the only one getting hurt here as this could explain the high failure rates people are throwing around and especially if they are made under very poor working conditions.

This may hurt china as a whole because more companies will start looking elsewhere to manufacture their products. I feel sorry for Sony then again they should have been more adamant to the treatment of the people at foxconn. "Made in China" is now going to be more of a joke for many people but in reality the poor working conditions for people should make companies penalize Foxconn.

duk3togo said,
This may hurt china as a whole because more companies will start looking elsewhere to manufacture their products.

Not sure that terminating contract with the company which is ripping off workers in a modern slavery environment is a bad thing.

EJocys said,

Not sure that terminating contract with the company which is ripping off workers in a modern slavery environment is a bad thing.

Not sure what you meant if you meant they shouldn't terminate the contract, I disagree. They should or offer contracts to companies with better standards.

duk3togo said,

This may hurt china as a whole because more companies will start looking elsewhere to manufacture their products. I feel sorry for Sony then again they should have been more adamant to the treatment of the people at foxconn. "Made in China" is now going to be more of a joke for many people but in reality the poor working conditions for people should make companies penalize Foxconn.


If anything, these workers' actions are a good thing. Sadly, many people in developed countries actually think this is something new, but the reality is that "Made in China" has always been a joke. It's a marker of cheap, poor-quality goods imported by once-patriotic "American" companies who used to employ skilled workers in the US to make a quality product.

There's really no news here, except that all these companies may finally be beginning to wake up and realize that "you get what you pay for." The additional profits CEOs and shareholders have accrued by outsourcing jobs to countries where it is legal and desirable to earn the equivalent of several (USD) cents per day aren't going to be worth it when there's no one left who can afford the product. These business "leaders" need to take a page from Henry Ford and understand that if you pay your workers a wage that enables them to buy the product they make, it helps you succeed and your employees take pride in the goods they produce.