From the Forums: Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade

Awwwww, Microsoft WHAT DID YOU DO!

This time around we've selected a thread from our forums where the members do the talking.

The post has generated almost 27,000 views and 600+ replies in just three days, simply because it is about a subject you're either with or against. I can't recall a time where there was so much for or against a Windows release, but it's here, it's loud, and it's proud?

The bad,

I've been saying it since Metro was introduced... "Welcome to Windows Millennium edition part 2". Windows 8 will be the biggest flop on desktop computing since ME.

On tablets it works great, but on the desktop with a mouse and keyboard, it absolutely sucks. Microsoft can only rectify this by releasing a non-metro version with 8's underlying enhancements to explorer and other things.

i will bet my Subscriber2 on it. - link

I tried the RTM yesterday evening and I have to say this is the worst thing Microsoft have ever done by far. There is no reason at all for me to upgrade to this. I mean really what new features are there? A new UI on Explorer? Task Manager? Metro? Is that all? This OS is a total joke. - link

Windows 8, talk about a frustrating experience. The task manager is very nice. navigationally, the OS is worse than unity's first implementation. Glad others are having problems & annoyances like I have discovered. My return key stopped working and my uptime is still under 10 minutes. #MSFail You are giving me 30 days to activate? I think that's like 29 too long - link

Windows 8 will go down as the biggest fail in the tech world. - link

The Windows team really doesn't care for detail or they simply lack the expertise. They roughly implemented the general idea and pretty much stopped there. - link

Windows 7 was the first OS that made me downgrade. It was ugly as ****, messy, and slow. - link
 

This ain't pretty?

To be fair many of the posts in the thread defend Windows 8, and point out the advantages it has over Windows 7 and earlier versions, or even try to educate misconceptions. But one thing's for sure, Windows 8 has caused a division among Windows fans; and it's just too early to call on its success or failure. So we'll leave you on a more positive note.

The good,

I like the OS so far. I don't have a problem with it at all. It even seems to be faster. - link

I wonder how many of you actually sat down with the OS with a clear mind and didn't scoff at it the first second you saw it. The best way to go about ANY changes to ANY platform or app is to approach with a clear mind, and many, many free hours. Windows 8 requires you to suspend any previous conceptions about operating systems. Give the hardware time to catch up, and by Windows 9, I guarantee some of you will have changed your opinion. - link

I personally can't wait to augment my desktop with a touch screen. Touch input is quicker and more efficient than the mouse is in some cases. - link

The performance speed of Windows 8 has me spoiled. I simply cannot go back to Windows 7. I still use 7 at work, but at home, I'm on 8 and every second of performance increase is very noticable...and I'm not even using RTM. - link

Workflow-wise, no different than 7 to me. I hit that desktop button on Metro and I live in desktop for 95% of the time unless I want to play one of those new Metro games or run a Metro app. I've always been a power user, so I don't need to click GUI buttons and waste time waiting for a visual cue feedback before moving on. I just shortcut everything with the keyboard and go straight to what I need. Because of this, I am not affected by Metro at all. - link

But wait..

And that's not all, Neowin member CW-88 has also started a topic asking for your positive experiences with Windows 8 thus far. So it isn't all bad.

Source: Forums: Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade
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I just installed it on a spare hard disk. Granted I've spent only 30 minutes using it, I didn't like it. I don't miss the start button, but I didn't like Metro. It would be enjoyable on a tablet, but on the desktop, not so much.
I was bugged by the fact that I couldn't close my apps using alt+f4, then I learned you could drag them from top to bottom to close them. Weird.
Guess I'm sticking with Win7.

What a joke..

People install a fresh OS and say ITS SO FAST LIEK OMGZ !!111

guess what ?

Re format windows 7 and tell me how fast it runs

Oh and while your at it benchmark the two under identical circumstances
and lets see the numbers rather than the FUD !

Just noticed I was quoted in this article. I was wondering why my Anti-Metro posts in the forum had picked up so many more likes today.

I don't understand all those people glamoring all over windows 8 don't they see it they are trying to get rid of the desktop and have a closed system like the Iphone getting free money from work they didn't create with the 30% from the app store and giving no choice to developer to sell it on their own. They didn't fully do it in this version but if win 8 succeeds which I hope it doesn't they are more than likely to get rid of the desktop in win 9 and next thing you know they will be telling you what you can or can't install and frankly if I wanted that I would have gone the apple way a long time ago. + Metro is fugly

Superboy said,
I don't understand all those people glamoring all over windows 8 don't they see it they are trying to get rid of the desktop and have a closed system like the Iphone getting free money from work they didn't create with the 30% from the app store and giving no choice to developer to sell it on their own. They didn't fully do it in this version but if win 8 succeeds which I hope it doesn't they are more than likely to get rid of the desktop in win 9 and next thing you know they will be telling you what you can or can't install and frankly if I wanted that I would have gone the apple way a long time ago. + Metro is fugly

Really? So you think after 30 years of maintaining legacy software they are going to just give up the user base and software base and shove developers and users into a closed system?

Your post is one of the stupidest things I have read in a long time.

Go look at the Windows Store and how it deals with Apps and how Microsoft PURPOSELY does NOT want to be the ONLY provider, nor do they want the responsibility of a closed system, and the reasons they would NEVER want what you suggest they are trying to accomplish.

They would never want the responsibility of 10 million applications, nor could they handle this type of ecosystem on their own.

Microsoft's biggest problem has been in leaving things too open for 3rd parties to fill in the gaps, and 3rd parties not always doing it well. However, that is the 'platform' they build and how they work, even if it isn't as 'slick' and polished in execution due to leaving room for others to provide functionality.

Use Windows 8 as a prime example, they could have kept the codecs and charged more for it, but instead, they are making the DVD playback and codecs an optional purchase, which has opened up the market for companies like Cyberlink and others to once again compete in this space and not have to compete against Microsoft and the core OS itself.

MrHumpty: Perhaps you should read the article on the Building Windows 8 Blog about the research Microsoft did into how far you need to move the mouse to launch stuff? they cut it down a lot with the move to the start screen.

Wow! Some off these comments annoy me. Must we really refer to Microsoft a "M$"? Don't you know of all the other stuff they do, like bringing down botnets? Tons of research into allsorts? And a wealth of information free to use on TechNet, Chanel 9 etc.

Anyway back on topic...
My memory is a little shaky, but I went Windows..95, 98SE (Hated it!), ME, XP, Vista, 7 (which I loved) and now Windows 8 Developer Preview, Consumer Preview, Release Preview.

At first, I wasn't to sure of the Metro UI, but persevered and just stayed mainly in Desktop mode, except to launch the odd app. Then I started using the odd Metro (or whatever we call it now lol!) app, but now more and more Metro apps.
The point is, you can use the desktop apps if you don't like the Metro ones, and as many people here have already said, the start screen is the start menu (and better in my humble opinion - Try it!)

One final thought - I love the way that the Apple and Linux fan boys and girls always get their comment in on a topic that has nothing to do with either!

Not to mention the "quotes" are ridiculous...

Windows 8 will go down as the biggest fail in the tech world.

Like look at these quotes... no basis at all... just trolls.

Tha Bloo Monkee said,
Not to mention the "quotes" are ridiculous...

Like look at these quotes... no basis at all... just trolls.

You do get that Windows ME (which would have been WELL deserved of bad press), and Windows Vista (didn't deserve it, but oh well), didn't get the kind of bad press that Win8 is getting *even before it is released*?!?

Win8 sucks (yes I have tried the RTM).

-- Brian

runningnak3d said,

You do get that Windows ME (which would have been WELL deserved of bad press), and Windows Vista (didn't deserve it, but oh well), didn't get the kind of bad press that Win8 is getting *even before it is released*?!?

Win8 sucks (yes I have tried the RTM).

-- Brian

Press has also changed over the years.

Instead of information technical minded journalists talking about technology, you have a massive surge of bloggers writing sensational crap to get you to stop by their web site.

If you look at the old mainstream press, Windows 8 has had little negative Press beyond reporting on or repeating blogger articles.

Name the tech journalist leaders today that should be trusted? There are very few, so this will be a hard one to answer.

Back in the WindowsME days, tech articles said to stay away from it, which most people did, except the people buying new computers with it preloaded. (Also the majority of 'tech' people were already running Windows 2000 and didn't mess with WinME.)

As for Vista, again it was more of a backlash off the bloggers, and there were very few people that even understood the technology in Vista, and still to this day, don't get what was added, why and why it is better... Take even some of the old 'dogs' like Mary Jo or others, they thought MinWin was a new OS, and got easily confused about features in Vista.

Just like Vista, few people have went to Channel 9 on MSDN and watched the developer interviews that explain the technology or read the whitepapers. There is also less 'famous' people to represent Windows 8, as Mark R, and Dave C. and others that have technical respect are working on other projects like Windows NT Azure, etc.

Go find a good technically minded person, and see what they are talking about with regard to Windows 8. Or drop out of the blogger mentally world, and pick up a few newspaper or news shows on TV. Notice Windows 8 is not the evil beast it is portrayed as on a site like this.

You are a great of example of the no fact, 'I hate it' crowd of comments. Even looking at the blogging/articles, you will notice a lack of 'facts' about Windows 8, many incorrect, and just the opinion crap of 'I didn't get it and don't like it.'

There is also the crowd that thinks it was designed ONLY for touch, yet Windows 8 adds in more Mouse features/clicks/gestures and Keyboard Shortcuts than any version of Windows has added since Windows 95. (Yet people will still say it is only for touch screens, and ignore all the mouse and keyboard features added.)

Even here on Neowin where the Win8 opinion went from 'interesting' on to the developer preview last year and everyone was 'we hate it', and the CP earlier this year with a leveling off of the 'we hate it' feelings to the RP that had a big 'drop' in the 'we hate it' moving to more 'we like it' or 'we get it' or 'it is fast and I'll get used to the new stuff'.

So even here, where you find very vocal people, from all lots in life, Win8 is not as hated as you think it is...

I would wager, as for readers here, you are in the minority, with most people willing to give it a real chance and even if they don't handle the new Apps and Start Screen at first will use it like Windows 7 and may eventually find they like the new App model and start using them.

Of course, Microsoft should be like Apple and dump about 10,000 free computers to journalists across the country, so they get good press reviews and additional coverage.

(And yes Apple does do this, and they do it through parent companies, so hard core journalists don't realize they are getting a free iPad or Mac from Apple, as it is given to them from the parent company, like GE for example. A few Android MFRS have also started doing this, with CNN and other news outlets getting a drop of their products.)

runningnak3d said,
You do get that Windows ME (which would have been WELL deserved of bad press), and Windows Vista (didn't deserve it, but oh well), didn't get the kind of bad press that Win8 is getting *even before it is released*?!?

Win8 sucks (yes I have tried the RTM).

-- Brian


Honestly, I think Vista received more bad press than Windows 8 is now.

Care to explain why it "sucks" besides stating that it is sub-par?

-- Tha Bloo Monkee

Article can't even quote itself accurately, wow, really?

Article Title: From the Forums: Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade

Actual Quote...

Windows 7 was the first OS that made me downgrade. It was ugly as ****, messy, and slow.

Should we even discuss that ANYONE that finds Windows 7 'ugly as ****, messy, and slow' to be a valued reference quote? (Considering that Windows 7 is the fastest and most stable OS in the history of desktop computing.)

exactly, it says windows 7 was the .....

And you're also right on the second part, windows 7 was everything but ugly as f.., messy and slow.

Nice to see a lot of the people who didn't like Win8 at first are coming around now after giving it a second chance.

Seems we only have a few resident haters left, well you can't please everybody

Stoffel said,
Nice to see a lot of the people who didn't like Win8 at first are coming around now after giving it a second chance.

Seems we only have a few resident haters left, well you can't please everybody

Your confirmation bias is showing.

for me: Dos (any versions) - Windows 3-1 - Windows 95 -Windows 98 - Windows ME - Windows 98 -Windows 2000 - Windows XP - Windows 2000 -Windows XP SP2 - Windows Vista (since beta) -Windows 7 (Since beta) - Windows 8 RTM -Window 7 and mac OS

It comes down to the marketplace that Microsoft wants to service--consumers or businesses? MS used to be business/enterprise oriented, with consumers adapting. Now, it is consumer oriented, with the hope that businesses will adapt. It is a case of the "tail wagging the dog." Hence, Windows-7 will be around for a very long time, very likely beyond the original "ending" year of 2020. Of course, there is (some) hope that Windows-9 or Windows-8 SP1 will be more business oriented.

TsarNikky said,
It comes down to the marketplace that Microsoft wants to service--consumers or businesses? MS used to be business/enterprise oriented, with consumers adapting. Now, it is consumer oriented, with the hope that businesses will adapt. It is a case of the "tail wagging the dog." Hence, Windows-7 will be around for a very long time, very likely beyond the original "ending" year of 2020. Of course, there is (some) hope that Windows-9 or Windows-8 SP1 will be more business oriented.

There are still businesses running Windows XP that haven't moved to Windows 7. Do you think they were ever going to upgrade in the next 5 years, regardless if what the OS looked like?

IT Pros constantly state they skip every other version of Windows. If that's the case, then Microsoft is steering into the skid and focusing on consumers, as those new apps won't write themselves.

dagamer34 said,

IT Pros constantly state they skip every other version of Windows. If that's the case, then Microsoft is steering into the skid and focusing on consumers, as those new apps won't write themselves.

Since the tech requirements weren't increased from Windows 7 to Windows 8, the same companies that adopted Windows 7 from XP or Vista were actually in a very good place to upgrade in place to Windows 8.

And last summer, that was the plan of most major IT departments.

Now, today, I don't know a single major IT department who is planning to upgrade. They're all recommending a "skip" to the OS and planning on spending those budgets on other things.

That is a pending HUGE loss to Microsoft for their core competency. And it cannot be underestimated in regards to their future stock price.

I was going to use Windows 8. Then I saw the crippled it by removing the start button. I mean, people. Everybody knows that one button is the cornerstone of the entire OS experience. That no other method could possibly present to you the programs on your machine. That moving my mouse 10 pixels further to the left is just asking for epic carpal tunnel problems. I don't think I can go on.

MrHumpty said,
I was going to use Windows 8. Then I saw the crippled it by removing the start button. I mean, people. Everybody knows that one button is the cornerstone of the entire OS experience. That no other method could possibly present to you the programs on your machine. That moving my mouse 10 pixels further to the left is just asking for epic carpal tunnel problems. I don't think I can go on.

Sarcasm -- take a class...

runningnak3d said,

Sarcasm -- take a class...


That is the premise behind nearly all complaining I see. First, the "Start" button was made fun of for years "You mean I have to hit 'Start' to 'Stop' my machine lulz" FF to now and they are making it so you have to press the Start Button on your KB or move your mouse half a cm to the left to get the start button and the world has come to an end.

It's pretty f**king funny tbh. Seriously, it's a ****ing button that brings up a menu. The functionality still exists but with a new menu. Uses your pinned programs and stfu for the love of god.

"Windows 8 will go down as the biggest fail in the tech world."

You really thought this was an insightful comment, worthy of featuring? Using "fail" as a noun must be the hallmark of intelligence.

Skwerl said,
"Windows 8 will go down as the biggest fail in the tech world."

You really thought this was an insightful comment, worthy of featuring? Using "fail" as a noun must be the hallmark of intelligence.

He is a true prophet among men. Head his words!! *finger point*

WinMunkee said,

He is a true prophet among men. Head his words!! *finger point*

While he may be illiterate about it, he's not wrong.

I concur with his opinion. Windows 8 is Microsoft's New Coke failure on the desktop.

And as regular readers of these forums know, over the past umpteen years posting here, I've never been wrong about my prognostications when it comes to Microsoft.

Never.

In fact, I've been warning about this Windows 8 debacle since last summer, when it because clear to me that the people controlling this release just weren't listening.

And now the entire company is going to pay the price for their arrogance.

I've been using windows since 3.1 and this the best Windows ever. Nothing can be beautiful in all peoples' eyes. That's why there are Windows, OS X, and Linux.

I would love the multi screen support Win8 has but I'm not upgrading to it to get it. They will likely release this to Windows 7 thru SP2.

sava700 said,
I would love the multi screen support Win8 has but I'm not upgrading to it to get it. They will likely release this to Windows 7 thru SP2.

Windows 7 video driver architecture does not have the capabilities to offer this feature, so don't hold your breath.

In all the 'we hate start screen fire pitchfork' crap, people have missed the technology and new feature of Windows 8 that are rather important, like the new video model and GPU technologies.

Windows 8 features things like an improved GPU scheduler technology, updated Vector composer(DWM) that runs full time, even if the system doesn't have DX9 GPU hardware, as it does a CPU extensions software fallback.

There is also OS level 3D support (like glasses watching Movies or playing games type of 3D).

The multi-monitor technology comes from the revised full time Composer/DWM that just does not exist or can easily be strapped onto Windows 7.

This is like the DX10 and IE9 debates, where people just didn't 'get' that the underlying GPU video model technologies do not exist in XP.

thenetavenger said,

Windows 7 video driver architecture does not have the capabilities to offer this feature, so don't hold your breath.

Bull. There isn't a single one of these arguably cosmetic multi-monitor features of Windows 8 that haven't been available to those of us with 2-4 monitor desktops for years now.

The things you mention already exist and work just fine in Windows 7. Can they be improved by the new Windows 8 layers. Surely!

Do they matter to 99.99999 % of users? No.

Do they allow anything new to be done that some of us power users have already been doing for years? Actually, so far, no.

And so do those hypothetical improvements compensate for the huge setback in GUI usability caused by cramming a touch based interface with INVISIBLE controls down the throats of 99% of Microsoft's traditional desktop point and click NOT technically literate user base?

Of course not...

The only people who care about these esoteric issues are we geeks at places like Neowin. And Microsoft's stock price doesn't rise and fall based on our sales.

But they do rise and fall based on our recommendations. In fact, I don't know a single major IT department that isn't currently "skipping" Windows 8.

Do you?

excalpius said,

Bull. There isn't a single one of these arguably cosmetic multi-monitor features of Windows 8 that haven't been available to those of us with 2-4 monitor desktops for years now.

The things you mention already exist and work just fine in Windows 7. Can they be improved by the new Windows 8 layers. Surely!

Do they matter to 99.99999 % of users? No.

Do they allow anything new to be done that some of us power users have already been doing for years? Actually, so far, no.

And so do those hypothetical improvements compensate for the huge setback in GUI usability caused by cramming a touch based interface with INVISIBLE controls down the throats of 99% of Microsoft's traditional desktop point and click NOT technically literate user base?

Of course not...

The only people who care about these esoteric issues are we geeks at places like Neowin. And Microsoft's stock price doesn't rise and fall based on our sales.

But they do rise and fall based on our recommendations. In fact, I don't know a single major IT department that isn't currently "skipping" Windows 8.

Do you?

Yes people do care if it is explained to them, or they see the effect of the technology.

As for IT deployment, there are few companies that are capable of a day one deployment of a new OS. If they have done testing and are ready, there are a lot of tech companies that use the Windows deployment automation technologies, and just restarting the clients will trigger a seamless Windows 8 install. (For example, my company offices, and several of our adjacent corporations.)

If you look at support provider companies like EDS/HP, you will not find many day deployments flipping out to 10,000+ client customers. However, this does not mean it won't be tested and considered for future deployment schedules in place of Windows 7.

There is truth that the upgrade cycle and the current economy means that Windows 8 will not be a major corporate deployed release, and that is why Microsoft has focused a lot on the consumer aspect of the OS.

Enterprise VL will help this cycle, with a lot of enterprise moving to Windows 8 after testing because it won't cost them anything in licensing costs.

However, it is Windows 9 that will hit the right schedule point for enterprise deployment.

As for the technology not being important, that is bull crap.

There is always a gap in the understanding of technology and the effect of what the new technology will provide end users directly.

Windows 8 GPU technologies are complicated to explain, but the end users will see more consistency, as the DWM is always active, so the UI chrome won't change or draw differently, even over remote connections.

This is important to provide a uniform experience on various levels of hardware. With Windows7/Vista the non-DX9 basic UI was a problem for consistency and usability with users and also was problematic for how Applications performed and operated on different generations/classes of hardware.

Windows 8 also offers refined GPU technologies for resource management, scheduling, and can even shove GPU threads to CPU cores if it would be faster, using all the processing available. And it does this seamlessly to end users and for developers as well.

So Math/CAD/Engineering/Design/Video/Gaming all get faster and have better quality, and can use more GP-GPU than was possible on Windows 7 without affecting other Applications or worrying about overloading the GPU.

End users see things draw faster, Apps run smoother, flipping between Applications if faster, and high end rendering and gaming applications get a significant boost, as the internal GPU threads get a bump as well.

Gamers are already seeing the performance boost, and professionals like engineers also see the boost and want the speed increases of Windows 8.

So additional features are important 'effects' of the technology, and increased speed is another important 'effect'.

There is also the new WinRT applications, that are FAR easier for corporate development and will be the key to moving companies away from intranet solutions based on old technology.

If they can deploy Windows 8 and create new Apps to replaced old crap with less effort than to replace their existing 'crap' with other development paths, they will jump on Windows 8. (Just the additional remote sync options and lock downs with a simplified UI are attractive to Corporate users that have looked at iPads and other similar products in the past, but couldn't use them because of the lack of centralized management and other AD technologies.


Technology is hard to explain, but easier to demonstrate the 'result' and 'capabilities' of the technology.

Just a few more articles like these from Microsoft would do wonders for enterprise and consumer adoption of Windows 8:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/arc...ensible-media-platform.aspx

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/arc...ing-windows-8-graphics.aspx

These are not highly technical, and also show what the end user will experience and why it is important.

Microsoft could have done a big faver to them selfs by just giving the users an option for the Metro Start Screen or the same good old Start menu from Windows 7!

gate1975mlm said,
Microsoft could have done a big faver to them selfs by just giving the users an option for the Metro Start Screen or the same good old Start menu from Windows 7!

But they did, it is just 'full screen' and that is why Microsoft is scratching their heads going, really, are people this stupid?

The Start Screen in Windows 8 is a new 'Start Menu'. It is really that simple, as it has the same type to search and other features of the previous Windows 7 Start menu (Even the List of Apps are there if you look).

The change is that instead of 1/4 screen popup Start Menu it is a full Screen Popup with more features. Sure it looks different, but beyond that it really isn't radically different.

It even OPENS the same, move Mouse to lower left corner, click.

Even if you don't do the introduction video, and use it like Windows 7, and treat the Start Screen like the 'Start Menu' you will not have any issues, and nothing knew to learn.

In my own quest of people I know that hate Windows 8, the biggest problem is a lot of them are running Windows 8 in a VM in a Window, and then complain because the 'corner' application flipping to the Start Screen or back to the Desktop or the Settings Charms bar are not easy to hit when running in a Window.

(So if you are running it in a VM, at least flip it to full screen or tell the VM to not give you seamless mouse, so that the corners at least work right.)

Running Windows 8 in a VM is not going to demonstrate the performance changes either.

thenetavenger said,

But they did, it is just 'full screen' and that is why Microsoft is scratching their heads going, really, are people this stupid?

OF COURSE they are that "stupid". DUH! Microsoft has been playing to the lowest common denominator for 30 years and they don't know that? 8P

Seriously though, even smart people are unlikely to respond well to the fact that all of the major important and critical controls of their new Windows 8 computer are INVISIBLE and hidden from view until they do some thoroughly counter-intuitive to activate them...

Ahem.

excalpius said,

OF COURSE they are that "stupid". DUH! Microsoft has been playing to the lowest common denominator for 30 years and they don't know that? 8P

Seriously though, even smart people are unlikely to respond well to the fact that all of the major important and critical controls of their new Windows 8 computer are INVISIBLE and hidden from view until they do some thoroughly counter-intuitive to activate them...

Ahem.

Typing a simple or advanced term from the Start Screen is NOT hidden unless people are idiots.

Just like the one video of someone talking about how it took them forever to figure out how to turn off their computer. If they would have typed 'Turn' or 'Off' the search results even freaking pull up 'Turn Off Your PC' that takes them to the Power Button directly.

There is no excuse for people that want to dig through a huge list of folders and 'word lists' which is what 'menus' actually are, that they 'miss' from the old Start Menu.

The problem seems to be coming from 'self professed' power users, that have never used the search box in the Start Menu on Vista or Windows 7, which after six years, is just lazy to learn they could just start typing and not have to click through all the freaking folders.

Even launching folders, or traditional CLI functionality is in Windows 7 Search Box in the Start Menu, and it is ALSO in the Windows 8 Start Screen.
.
.
.
I wonder how many people realize that in Windows 8 at the Start Screen (which the Windows key takes them there) that they can just start typing to search or do more advanced things.
.
.
.
.
_________________

Here are tips for other readers that think Windows 8 doesn't work well with just a keyboard, or the new Start Screen is not a 'better' replacement for the Start Menu.

In example, typing any of these traditional CLI type commands and pressing enter:

c:\users (Opens the Users folder instantly)
---- Any command line works, like \\Server and if you pay attention and throw the \ at the end, it will fill in the folders in a list below the box in case you don't remember the folder name you are trying to find. Hit down arrow and press enter. (Suggestions appear at the top of the Start Menu in Win7)

regedit (Opens regedit even if it doesn't appear in the search)
---- This is true if you type the name of any executable on the computer, like CMD, coreldrw, winword it will open the application even it doesn't appear in the search.

You can also enter search keywords to find specific things like:
kind:music Lady Gaga

Hitting the Windows Key and typing is the fastest way to be a 'power user' and use Windows 7, and it works even better and is easier in Windows 8 with the categories of Apps/Settings/Files and the predictive lists.

This comment was made about every previous version of windows. Nobody likes it at first because at launch there are usually a lot of driver issues which to be honest is not Microsofts fault. They rtm and always give the manufactures plenty of time to make updated drivers before an OS launch. It's not like they are left in the dark. I myself think windows 8 is solid and it seems more responsive than Windows 7 to me. I also have an AMD 8120 cpu so windows 8 will have full support for it.

haters will be haters.. but they will adapt to it... I am a linux guy so......... thats another topic.. "command lines is GOD MODE in our world!!" no fancy GUI will take that away...

I can do everything I could do in Win7 and more. If you don't like it, you're not using it right. I seldom travel into Metro (Win8 UI?) unless I want to view maps, traffic, weather or something like that in a jiff. I'd much rather load a weather app in Win8 than surf to a website. I digress. People that are complaining are seriously hanging on to the past. I'm a tech savvy guy and a poweruser. Windows 8 slowed me down for about 30 minutes and I got it. This house will get upgraded on 10/26.

laserfloyd said,
I'm a tech savvy guy and a poweruser.

Which means you DON'T speak for the 99% of current Windows users world-wide.

No one doubts that we technically savvy gurus can grok any new interface (no matter how asinine) in short order.

Myself, and many others, have been raising huge red flags that a GUI with INVISIBLE controls does NOT make sense to the modern computer user, who will NEVER have a touch-based desktop computer...and even then, expects a WYSIWYG interface.

A few very simple tweaks could have fixed all this. For example..

Clicking in the dead open area of the opening lock screen might also bring up the login prompt. Why the f**k would anyone turn on a computer and assume they need to swipe up or down?!

Same idea on the kindergarten-friendly start screen. Click on some dead space to bring up the master control bar at the bottom, etc. Why would anyone think that the controls to actually use their computer in a day to day environment would be HIDDEN from view?!

Or just give people the option to NOT auto-hide some of these...and to have those NOT auto-hidden by default in the desktop environment. Ahem.

And the list goes on and on.

Windows 8 has made some horrible decisions that go against best practices dating back to the 1980s and they are going to be burned very badly by this.

Not by you or me, the techno 1%, but by everyone else out there. No one should have to call tech support just to operate the most basic functions of their computer.

Microsoft used to know that. Apple still does. Guess who just got handed mana from heaven...

It's sad because the main reason people are complaining is because the Start Screen, and the desktop graphics don't look all flashy and 3D or some crap. Instead the entire OS is flat, simple and FAST! The start screen is laid out well and the OS overall has sped up my work flow. I'm a very organized individual and find a lot of benefit from the start screen and how I can organize it how I choose.

No one's desktop computer has been "slow" for over a decade now.

Just like 99% of the population don't have to worry about RAM or drive space anymore.

Gimping the visuals in order to speed up the interface and reduce power use ONLY matters on devices with a battery, like tablets and phones. And the truth is that we might be talking about 1% battery life here, given modern mobile GPUs.

So for Microsoft to thoroughly uglify and painfully gimp 99% of their 95%+ world desktop market share in order to force an interface made up of kindergarten-grade colored blocks just to try and make their big break in the tablet and phone markets is beyond asinine.

Especially when you consider that the future of computing (starting THIS year) is voice and gesture control, not touch (because touch is worthless on a standard desk/chair layout).

So my response to Windows 8? I'm going to buy Apple stock.

Windows 8 will be popular on tablets and older laptops, the more serious and competent desktop community will avoid it, you're mom will probably love it.

I don't like W8 and I especially don't like the way M$ is shoving it's "style" down the throats of their captive audience. I hope this takes a huge toll on M$ by getting a ton of people to look at the alternatives, maybe it'll teach them the lesson that pleasing customers is more important than forcing long term company goals.

im loving win 8, and quiet frankly i barely see metro at all, i use it to msg and open a few apps up but it definatly hasnt stopped me from doing anything, if not im finding workflow better as i dont have to worry about the stupid start menu

Just because “Windows 8 Style UI” is the Microsoft platform from now and the “desktop” goes into legacy stage - I doubt that it will be revamped with polished chrome, icons and other UI elements and widely improved experience anytime soon or later. And I doubt that “Windows 8 Style Apps” will have any power options or optimized controls other than for a hands-held landscaped plate. It doesn't matter that Windows 8 has a desktop mode (ruined to some point). It's more important that MS did a leap away from physical desktops and laptops with big screens and won't come back. Yes, “Windows 8 Style UI” is not for big screens, mice and keyboards (whilst it works with ‘em somehow but not good, really), but that's because MS sees them fading away to avoidable minority. And I really wonder what they are going to propose for enterprises with Windows 9 (or 11-12 if release cycles will be reduced) while keeping that "plain and simple, fast and fluid" vision high.

Well i admit that i disliked the metro screenshots at first but after running the RP for a few weeks i was captured by it. I admit that i had some trouble at first, but i eventually accepted the change and adapted. I like the new start is like an additional desktop where all the most used programs are nicely arranged and easy to find, same goes for the search. You just have to give it a try. Not install it and as soon as it boots up switch back to win7 (what my friends are doing). win8 is obviously a big performance upgrade from win7, if you learn to accept and like metro it's actually the best OS from Microsoft so far.

Granted that win8 might not become the most popular OS ever, I think it's a bit sad that everyone is only focusing and judging the metro interface, calling it "the biggest fail in the tech world" is slightly exaggerated in my opinion.

7 all the way. Perhaps until 2020 if no better ( read sesktop usable ) version will apear.
8 ? No way. I prefer to buy a iPad or even an Android tablet than a Windows 8 one.
For tablets, the 8 interface is usable, it's through, but i prefere more how act the Android and iOS. Looks better and is easier to acces everything. 8 might be worst than Vista or milenium for Microsoft. Time will tell.

The big question is, when this fails, and we all know Windows 8 will fail, what will Microsoft do? Will they reverse course and go back to the classic desktop, or will they continue to foist a touch based UI on desktop users and ignore poor sales and the inevitable criticism?

I suppose it will also depend on the OEM responses. OEM's have GNU/Linux as a real alternative now, so why settle with a poor selling Windows 8 OS, when they can offer a desktop UI that is more familiar, easier to use, and more in line with current workflows.

simplezz said,

I suppose it will also depend on the OEM responses. OEM's have GNU/Linux as a real alternative now, so why settle with a poor selling Windows 8 OS, when they can offer a desktop UI that is more familiar, easier to use, and more in line with current workflows.

No one is EVER moving to Linux. That ship sailed a very long time ago.

Consumers, who already own iPods, iPhones, and iPads, will be moving to Apple's desktop computers in droves once they get a load of Windows 8 on the desktop.

Or I guess adoption of W8 tablets could reverse this trend entirely...

Which do you think is most likely?

excalpius said,

No one is EVER moving to Linux. That ship sailed a very long time ago.

People use whatever OS the OEM's ship with new PC's. And they are starting to take notice of Ubuntu and other distros that present an easy interface for users. Windows just isn't very important these days. The same things can be accomplished on GNU/Linux and OS X.

excalpius said,

Consumers, who already own iPods, iPhones, and iPads, will be moving to Apple's desktop computers in droves once they get a load of Windows 8 on the desktop.

I'd agree with you here if it weren't for the fact that Apple's laptop and desktop machines are so expensive. Sure some will migrate to Apple, but many are going to be seeking a cheaper alternative, and that's where GNU/Linux fits in. The OS itself is free for a start, so PC buyers and OEM's get an immediate boost.

excalpius said,

Or I guess adoption of W8 tablets could reverse this trend entirely...

That's fantasy at this point. W8 tablets are expensive, offer an inferior experience (to Android and iOS), and are yet again 'me too products'. Microsoft is perennially playing catch up here.

simplezz said,
W8 tablets are expensive, offer an inferior experience (to Android and iOS), and are yet again 'me too products'. Microsoft is perennially playing catch up here.

What in the world are you talking about?! There are no W8 tablets released yet. Everything you are saying applies quite correctly to older tablets, but clearly has no bearing on what's coming later this year.

Any of these new tablets that can run REAL x86 applications (instead of kiddie Flash-grade games/apps) already has a HUGE advantage over iOS and Android...by default.

All we need to see is if they make good on this promise.

My iPad is a big toy (re: a large iPod touch) and anyone who argues otherwise is drinking the Apple Kool-Aid...

I'll probably give Windows 8 a try, just to be fair about it, but I have a feeling that I'll either be sticking with Windows 7 or one of the Linux distros if what I seen of Windows 8 CP comes even close to what and how RTM acts.

I think the picture up top says it all...what a bunch of cry babies! Windows 8 brings the whole app thing and tablet stuff on board, but doesn't actually stop you doing anything you could with win 7. I don't like the metro apps and I live in the desktop, once you've lived with the Start "Screen" as apposed to Start "Menu" for a little while it really makes no difference - unless of course you're one of those lazy users that never tidied their start menu, even then you can hit start and simply search for what you wnat (which is actually faster than digging down the folders).

I do however think there is a chance that we see another Vista adoption fiasco, not becuase there is anything wrong with the OS, but because of the consumer's resistance to change.

The way some of the opinions are presented in that thread and others immediately made me think of an image like that. I'm no fan on the removal of the Start menu, but it doesn't make me want to cry or feel like Microsoft raped me in the butt or something lol.

)-(orus said,
I do however think there is a chance that we see another Vista adoption fiasco, not becuase there is anything wrong with the OS, but because of the consumer's resistance to change.

personally i hope your right... we need to send MS a message to back up off the drastic changes like this as they don't work well on a desktop PC.

surely they can come up with a way for a decent change but nothing as drastic and over simplified as this interface is.

i am sure the speed of the OS is fine, but the interface is where it's a show stopper.

Neobond said,
The way some of the opinions are presented in that thread and others immediately made me think of an image like that. I'm no fan on the removal of the Start menu, but it doesn't make me want to cry or feel like Microsoft raped me in the butt or something lol.

And there we go - one comment after the so called "It's balanced" post, the true colors of the writer are revealed. Either you take people seriously or you don't post about it as "news".

ThaCrip said,

personally i hope your right... we need to send MS a message to back up off the drastic changes like this as they don't work well on a desktop PC.

surely they can come up with a way for a decent change but nothing as drastic and over simplified as this interface is.

i am sure the speed of the OS is fine, but the interface is where it's a show stopper.

Seriously? Change is bad?

Ok, lets urge them to go back to DOS and maybe they can get a punch card OS in the works too...

You are the one that is not 'getting the message' that change is good, and some evolve and others die at a command prompt.

ThaCrip said,

i am sure the speed of the OS is fine, but the interface is where it's a show stopper.

Windows 8 is the best thing to happen to Apple (on the desktop!) since Steve Jobs returned.

What a colossal screw-up by MS. With a little tweaking, they could have had their Tablet Cake and ate it on the Desktop too...

thenetavenger said,

Seriously? Change is bad?

Ok, lets urge them to go back to DOS and maybe they can get a punch card OS in the works too...

You are the one that is not 'getting the message' that change is good, and some evolve and others die at a command prompt.

i don't mind 'some' change but that's TOO drastic is my point. i am sure they can come up with something better without making TOO much of a change.

bottom line... metro is just not made for a desktop PC

ThaCrip said,

i don't mind 'some' change but that's TOO drastic is my point. i am sure they can come up with something better without making TOO much of a change.

bottom line... metro is just not made for a desktop PC

Bottom line.. You obviously do not understand the how Metro works with a traditional keyboard and mouse.

Windows 8, specifically the Metro aspect added more OS level keyboard shortcuts, and new mouse interactions and gestures than any version of Windows since Windows 95.

With just the Windows Key, TAB, UP, DOWN, RIGHT, LEFT, ENTER you can operate and navigate the entire Metro OS. This is NOT true of the Desktop or ANY OTHER VERSION of Windows prior to Windows 8.

The whole Metro interface concept has been used for Windows Media Center since 2003, and was DESIGNED to be used with a keyboard, mouse, or a FREAKING remote control with four arrow keys, Enter/Select, Tab, Back.

I understand that idiots have written articles and continue to refer to the Metro UI as being only for Tablets; however, you can try it or think for yourself and see that this is absolutely false.

Just the 'Start Menu' replication that the 'Start Screen' provides is completely fluid using just a keyboard, with Type to search, and basic arrow, tab, enter navigation.

To ensure I wasn't being hyperbolic, I flipped back to the Start Screen, checked email, opened a photo from a friend, changed my Facebook status, and flipped back to finish this message without taking my hands off the keyboard. And I am rusty with the Win8 UI, having not used it for a few weeks because I have been working from Win7 laptops at remote location.

Seriously, I know my tone is harsh, but the myth that Metro or Windows 8 is NOT for traditional Keyboard and Mouse users gets old, especially when it has more keyboard and mouse additions than anything since Windows 95, and it can be navigated faster
with fewer keystrokes and less cumbersome key combinations. (No need for ALT, etc.)

Neobond said,
To be fair, the article is pretty balanced

The article starts with a crying person. That's pretty much flaming right there.

.Neo said,

The article starts with a crying person. That's pretty much flaming right there.

Hit a little close to home, did it?

.Neo said,

The article starts with a crying person. That's pretty much flaming right there.

Indeed it is, as if the people posting are not to be taken seriously but as whiners.

ahhell said,
Hit a little close to home, did it?

I haven't laughed this hard in ages actually as far as new OS releases go.

To be honest, i think i downgraded on most Windows releases apart from Windows 7:

(before windows 2000 i dont recall)
Windows 2000->
Windows XP: Downgraded to 2000, think the reason was gaming/applications/drivers? had too many issues->
Windows 2000->
Windows XP: Given sometime to balance out, was pretty good OS ->
Windows Vista: Look great and all, until you used it, and was just crappy (still isnt great to this day) ->
Windows XP->
Windows 7: never went back to vista, never got good vibes from me, but win 7 was a good solid OS

So i have gone: 2000->XP->2000->XP->Vista->XP->Win 7

And i wont be surprised if i go: Win 7->Win 8->Win 7->Win 8

for me:
Dos (any versions) - Windows 3-1 - Windows 95 - Windows 98 - Windows ME - Windows 98 - Windows 2000 - Windows XP - Windows 2000 - Windows XP SP2 - Windows Vista (since beta) - Windows 7 (Since beta) - Windows 8 RTM - Windows 7, no/never more 8.

andyardener said,
Windows Vista: Look great and all, until you used it, and was just crappy (still isnt great to this day)

I use Vista daily on my production machine and have for years. Works just fine though I upgraded to Vista post SP1 when I built this machine. The nonsense that is Vista FUD is the sad state of technical reporting and idiocy around the web

I'll be cloning and in place upgrading to 7 then 8 next week when I get my MSDN RTM version. Then I'll be switching to an Intel Surface + 2 monitors in January to have a portable development environment.

thekim said,
for me:
Dos (any versions) - Windows 3-1 - Windows 95 - Windows 98 - Windows ME - Windows 98 - Windows 2000 - Windows XP - Windows 2000 - Windows XP SP2 - Windows Vista (since beta) - Windows 7 (Since beta) - Windows 8 RTM - Windows 7, no/never more 8.

You realize that with all the years of experience using computers, if you did not use Windows NT until Windows 2000 came along, you lose all credibility of having any technical OS understanding.

There are few 'tech' people that used computers in the 90s that never used NT, and very few of us that touch WindowsME, as we knew the politics of the last gasp of the Win9x team and their monolithic kernel crap. They team knew they were going to be reassigned or if good integrated into the NT group, not the other way around, so they threw everything at the wall they could get to stick and created a bloated OS on a foundation that couldn't handle it.


And after all these years, it is the 'full screen' Start 'Menu' that bothers you, Really?

The OS is faster, tons of features, (many not talked about in the normal press), and you are stuck at the full screen Start Menu?

It is just the Start Screen/Menu, and it instead of a 1/4 of the screen popup, it is a full screen popup. It has ALL the same functionality if you look, and new features too, but you can ignore them.

Even if I didn't get that the Start Screen was just a full screen 'Start Menu', I can think of 20 ways I could avoid ever seeing or using it.

(Task Scheduler launches Desktop on login, have a folder of all the Shortcuts, offered in a cascading menu off the Taskbar, and pretend I'm using Windows 7.)

People forget how changeable Windows truly is, just because Microsoft puts something there and makes it not a 'flip switch' for casual users, does not mean isn't changeable.


Anyway...

Go through the tutorial that lays out the concept and why it works like it does with the corners to access features, and learn a few of the new keyboard shortcuts, which there are more in Windows 8 for common features than even in Windows 7.

(People will tell you it is a touch only OS, yet the keyboard and Mouse got as many improvements for usability and navigation as the touch concepts, and nobody talks about them.)

Then go back to this simple concept to make Windows 8 seem completely cool... The evil Start Screen is JUST a full screen Start Menu, and it is good, then work from there.


It will likely be an initial flop that turns into a massive hit. It's jarring a first, but it's really good and only going to get better.

If people thinks that the new start screen is the only new thing in Windows 8, they really should change to Apple because i don't want to share something with such ignorant people. Please go to the an apple store and let "genius" treat you like dumb. You deserve it...

fenderMarky said,
If people thinks that the new start screen is the only new thing in Windows 8, they really should change to Apple because i don't want to share something with such ignorant people. Please go to the an apple store and let "genius" treat you like dumb. You deserve it...

You do realize that you are insulting 99% of current Windows users and telling them to go to Apple to have a comfortable, familiar, and welcoming desktop environment, right?

Guess what? You'll be getting your wish.

I have to say I have been very unexcited about Windows 8. However I stuck the Release Preview onto a VM a few days ago just to try and get acquainted with it prior to it being available on MSDN/TechNet as I do intend to give it a proper go, and despite being a little unpleased about some elements of it, I did get used to it pretty quickly. I almost.. liked it...!!

Ever since the dos days i used every single OS MS released and had it running as main OS before even hitting RTM. I am one of the few people that even liked Vista and defended it!

Windows 8 is the first MS release i am not going to rush to install, if i ever decide to install it!

parisp said,
Ever since the dos days i used every single OS MS released and had it running as main OS before even hitting RTM. I am one of the few people that even liked Vista and defended it!

Windows 8 is the first MS release i am not going to rush to install, if i ever decide to install it!

that pretty much sums it up. Vista was not bad especially at SP1 level and in a way felt like a upgrade over Windows XP but once Windows 7 came along Windows Vista sort of fell between the cracks since many stayed on XP or if they moved on it was Windows 7.

but before i even used Windows 8 RTM i had a pretty good feeling i was not going to like it and after i tried the RTM in a virtual machine it further confirmed that suspicion. that metro interface pretty much kills the OS as it does not feel like a desktop PC should and is over simplified and makes doing stuff we are using to doing more of a chore instead of quickly accessing and running apps like you can with Win7.

Windows 8, like many people say, is more suited for a tablet than a desktop. i just hope Windows 8 don't become the new standard like how Windows 7 is currently as then we would be forced to use that over simplified interface that makes just getting to files more of a chore.

it might be possible ill give Windows 8 another go eventually but i definitely am not in a hurry after my initial impression. it's possible it might be that we just need to relearn a few things but i just can't see it being as efficient to use as Windows 7 is overall on a desktop PC. so basically Windows 8 feels more like a downgrade than a upgrade like the article says.

parisp said,
Ever since the dos days i used every single OS MS released and had it running as main OS before even hitting RTM. I am one of the few people that even liked Vista and defended it!

Windows 8 is the first MS release i am not going to rush to install, if i ever decide to install it!

And you truly have a feel of the Windows 8 RTM? How?

The Windows 8 RP with respect to the new start screen and preview Apps changed a lot between RP and RTM with a lot of cohesion, consistency, and even usability changes.

So if you REALLY aren't going to use Windows 8, at least do it based on your hands on assessment of the RTM of the product, and after having gone through the introduction tutorial that lays out the concept to help it just make sense.

ThaCrip said,

that pretty much sums it up. Vista was not bad especially at SP1 level and in a way felt like a upgrade over Windows XP but once Windows 7 came along Windows Vista sort of fell between the cracks since many stayed on XP or if they moved on it was Windows 7.

but before i even used Windows 8 RTM i had a pretty good feeling i was not going to like it and after i tried the RTM in a virtual machine it further confirmed that suspicion. that metro interface pretty much kills the OS as it does not feel like a desktop PC should and is over simplified and makes doing stuff we are using to doing more of a chore instead of quickly accessing and running apps like you can with Win7.

Windows 8, like many people say, is more suited for a tablet than a desktop. i just hope Windows 8 don't become the new standard like how Windows 7 is currently as then we would be forced to use that over simplified interface that makes just getting to files more of a chore.

it might be possible ill give Windows 8 another go eventually but i definitely am not in a hurry after my initial impression. it's possible it might be that we just need to relearn a few things but i just can't see it being as efficient to use as Windows 7 is overall on a desktop PC. so basically Windows 8 feels more like a downgrade than a upgrade like the article says.

This totally amazes me...

Even if someone truly hates the new App model, unlike what the press has shoved out, they do not have to use it.

Even you are not a good selection, as running it in a VM only, you have not felt the speed difference, and using the corner's for UI actions would be crap.

This is NOT just a touch based OS, any more than Windows 7 was only a touch based OS. (And the world argued that Win7 was not touch friendly, which I have to disagree with as well.)

Here is your problem the Start Screen... Right?

Fine, then just shift your thinking. The Start Screen is a Full Screen version of the Start Menu. PERIOD. It has all the same functionality, the same type to search, the same access to Applications, Files, and on and on.

The only thing making it different is that it is full screen (which is irrelevant as the Start Menu in Windows 7 is 1/4 of the screen and cannot remain on the screen after using it.)

The Start Screen adds a lot of new features, if you CHOOSE to use them, like live tiles and new Apps, but you don't have to ever freaking touch them.

If you can't ignore the 'larger' Start 'Menu' you seriously have some psychiatric problem or do not grasp that it is just the Start Menu but full screen.

As for Vista, it wasn't SP1 that made it ok, it was the updated Video Drivers from ATI and NVidia, which Microsoft finally had to take control over, in June of 07, Microsoft told NVidia and ATI, ENOUGH, and sent their developers to assist with the drivers, and get both companies to think beyond the XPDM that they were use to using.

(They had to write the drivers and think about the GPU in a completely different way, which the WDM/WDDM team had experience as the model handed more control over the OS, like the XBox 360 design. )

In Sept of 07, the result of the work became evident, as for the first time games, especially in the x64 bit version of Vista were beating XP in performance.

People can 'complain' about the driver model shift and change in Vista, as it truly did require a complete rewrite of the drivers with different concepts from the XP drivers.

However, this DESIGN change in Vista is what makes Windows 7 and Windows 8 (even more so) the most advanced OS designs today, as they can mange GPU resources, threads/scheduling and a series of other features that NO OTHER OS currently handles or has the capability to handle.

Windows 8 expands on this technology in several ways with a full time DWM/Composer even on non DX9 hardware, because of software fallback, over RDP, and has new GPU scheduling technologies for even more fluidity than Windows 7 for simultaneous rendering and GP-GPU operations.

But the world wanted to hate Vista for the Video changes and the Sound changes (again that mimics the XBox 360 as it was the 'fastest' and cleanest mechanism for sound), and they didn't get the Network driver changes or many other changes to the OS. So Vista was crap, even though it was a brilliant architecture.

The world was also disappointed that the managed UI didn't happen (which is happening in Windows 8, but people hate it now too cause everything is backwards today), and they hated that WinFS was not in the OS, although 99% of the functionality was in the OS.

If you want to hate Windows 8, great go for it, but don't pontificate that you have some insight into the usability and technology, especially when you admit you have only ran it in a freaking VM.

thenetavenger said,

This totally amazes me...

Except that he's right. All your defending of the Touch-screen based Start Menu as being quasi-functional doesn't negate the fact that it is actually thoroughly useless in a desltop Windows environment.

W8 should have been split into a Tablet and Desktop release (identical code except for the Start Screen by default on Tablet, but off for Desktop).

Right now, it looks as though Windows 8 was designed for and by preschoolers.

It's Microsoft's New Coke and the sad thing is they could have fixed the major issues in a week or less...but the egomaniac driving this train wreck hasn't been listening to high end user feedback since last summer.

I love windows 8! When i installed RTM on my harddisk it felt like running from an ssd..the OS is much more snappier than 7 hands down. Live tiles are cool, task manager has been revamped, ribbon bar makes life easier and cooler, booting times are tighter, and the metro experience is great, just because the strart menu has now gone it does not mean windows 8 is a fail just learn the new windows and stop moaning or begging MS to bring back the old fashioned start menu. MS is moving forward not backwards. I bearly use the startmenu...this is what i have to say on windows 8. Ready to buy the pro license! windows 8 user/lover

Q9650 said,
I love windows 8! When i installed RTM on my harddisk it felt like running from an ssd..the OS is much more snappier than 7 hands down. Live tiles are cool, task manager has been revamped, ribbon bar makes life easier and cooler, booting times are tighter, and the metro experience is great, just because the strart menu has now gone it does not mean windows 8 is a fail just learn the new windows and stop moaning or begging MS to bring back the old fashioned start menu. MS is moving forward not backwards. I bearly use the startmenu...this is what i have to say on windows 8. Ready to buy the pro license! windows 8 user/lover

Microsoft are attempting to move the computing experience forward. The old Xerox desktop experience is inadequate and complicated. If Microsoft does not move windows along, Windows will be dead in 2 -3 years.

And for the distressed, Windows 7 will be around and supported for another 15 years. No need to worry.

Windows 8 is not the first to make me downgrade! I'm not even leaving Windows 7! It is the first one that I will ignore in over a decade!

I think Windows 8 will split the community than never Windows before did. I doubt that Microsoft can reach the same successes like in Windows 7 but we will see.
For me no Windows 8.

thekim said,
I think Windows 8 will split the community than never Windows before did. I doubt that Microsoft can reach the same successes like in Windows 7 but we will see.
For me no Windows 8.

Agree! Windows 7 will be on our computers for another 2 years it looks like!

thekim said,
I think Windows 8 will split the community than never Windows before did. I doubt that Microsoft can reach the same successes like in Windows 7 but we will see.
For me no Windows 8.

I tend to think that the general public will love Windows 8. I'm currently using Windows 8 and tend to spend the vast majority of my time on the desktop but I absolutely love they way my favorite apps such as Kindle, USA Today and NBC News apps all present information. The general public will love this.

What I don't quite understand is the so-called tech community that moans about the desktop. The only thing that's significantly different is the absence of the Start menu. If you're a tech enthusiast of any kind it should be a fairly simple process to pin your favorite apps to the taskbar. The taskbar was where all my favorite apps live anyway so its not much of a transition for me but still its one click on the taskbar as compared to several using the Start menu.

NPGMBR said,
...

Not for me.
I absolute dislike the "Windows 8 Applications", fullscreen Apps, the new Windows theme on desktop looks very ugly.
I don't like the charmbar, I don't want gestures on a PC.
I see absolute nothing on Windows 8 what I like.
Windows 8 for PCs is absolute unproductive.
My friends and colleagues see is similar.
The first thing what I hear from people the I show Windows 8:
"How can I remove this crap?"

I see a tend away from Microsoft. And I'm not using Apple or Linux, I'm not interested to it. But MIcrosoft forces me to look for other things.

Hahaiah said,
I can't trust the judgement who says MSNBC and USA Today are among their favorite apps. I just can't.

I never asked you to trust my judgment and I certainly don't seek the approval of others! If you need someone else's approval to make personal decisions; I suggest you move back in with your parents.

thekim said,

Not for me.
I absolute dislike the "Windows 8 Applications", fullscreen Apps, the new Windows theme on desktop looks very ugly.
I don't like the charmbar, I don't want gestures on a PC.
I see absolute nothing on Windows 8 what I like.
Windows 8 for PCs is absolute unproductive.
My friends and colleagues see is similar.
The first thing what I hear from people the I show Windows 8:
"How can I remove this crap?"

I see a tend away from Microsoft. And I'm not using Apple or Linux, I'm not interested to it. But MIcrosoft forces me to look for other things.

Certainly, if you don't like Windows 8 you don't have to use it. Microsoft is not forcing you to do anything you don't want to.

Urrm, sorry to point out the obvious but why is this news? The forums are there for people to engage and debate. Perhaps the news story should read "Forums are functional, users are using them as designed." ?

jamieakers said,
Urrm, sorry to point out the obvious but why is this news?

Because no other thread has aroused such a public resonance here in a long time.

The post has generated almost 27,000 views and 600+ replies in just three days

zhiVago said,

Because no other thread has aroused such a public resonance here in a long time.

It has, but I agree, not in such a short time span maybe.

Neobond said,

It has, but I agree, not in such a short time span maybe.

How about posting a positive topic to the front page then as well, or are you going to let your anti-Windows 8 bias influence the front page?

TCLN Ryster said,

How about posting a positive topic to the front page then as well

Half of the article is about the good stuff.

Johrie said,
Windows 8 performs MUCH better then windows 7 will ever do....

in real world performance i am sure it's minimal (a while back i heard Win8 performs better but it's not a lot. surely not Vista to Win7 level). but since Windows 7 is actually made for a Desktop PC then Windows 7 wins overall. Windows 8 they just forced that Metro crap on people for the sake of a cool interface at the expense of usability.

bottom line from my impression of it in a virtual machine i definitely won't be getting rid of Windows 7. in fact, they could give Windows 8 to me for free and i would not install it. they would basically have to pay me to use Windows 8 over Windows 7 on a desktop PC and i am sure i am not alone in this opinion either.

Windows 8 is just to different from the tried and true Windows we have been using for ages and doing fairly basic tasks are more of a chore as when you get rid of Metro with windows key and it goes back to desktop it feels neutered.

initial impression of Windows 8 is definitely more negative than positive to say the least.

Johrie said,
Windows 8 performs MUCH better then windows 7 will ever do....

what crack you smoking?? Win8 is good with some enhancements but Win7 is flawless and deserves many of WIn8's enhancesments and extra's in SP2 which will likely happen anyway.

Johrie said,
Windows 8 performs MUCH better then windows 7 will ever do....

As much as I agree with your comment, it is the internet. *than

The only reason that I keep using Windows 8 it's because of the multi-monitor taskbar and better support for dual screens setup, otherwise Windows 7 all the way.

SubZenit said,
The only reason that I keep using Windows 8 it's because of the multi-monitor taskbar and better support for dual screens setup, otherwise Windows 7 all the way.
So, you're using Windows 8 over Windows 7 because of some of the improvements they made? Seems everything is in order then

Dean Wagner said,

A must-have for multiple-monitor setups:

http://www.actualtools.com/multiplemonitors/

Yes, there are several of these programs out there. Ultramon and DisplayFusion are the two most popular.

None of these are as reliable as the built-in taskbar. There are glitches of all sorts, both in the taskbars and in their interaction with non-standard Windows. And the taskbar developers have to go in and add compatibility hacks to their programs. It's a losing game. There are simply too many weird applications out there.

By contrast, the Windows taskbar gets tested by 100% of software companies. You'd be surprised at how many people at large software companies are running multiple monitors without additional taskbars. With Windows 8, they will have the multimon taskbar on by default, and they will thus be more likely to fix multimon taskbar bugs with their applications.

parengputik said,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Exactly, the only people who complain are the ones who use metro, I use start menu just as a start menu + mail app leaving metro for tablet UI

My mother on the other hand (desktop pc) loves metro, she can do all her browsing, see pictures, videos, etc. with an ease

If tech enthusiasts would represent the real world, no one would be using Apple products

Someone gets paid by Microsoft because THIS is how real people use Windows 8...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU

Took me, a highly technically proficient web developer 20 minutes to figure out how to shut that piece of crap off through the software.

I'll stick with XP since it actually works until I'm comfortable enough with Linux. Debian + KDE seems to be the way to go currently.

JAB Creations said,
Someone gets paid by Microsoft because THIS is how real people use Windows 8...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU

Took me, a highly technically proficient web developer 20 minutes to figure out how to shut that piece of crap off through the software.

I'll stick with XP since it actually works until I'm comfortable enough with Linux. Debian + KDE seems to be the way to go currently.

No, this is not how real people use Windows 8. The final version of Windows 8 includes a tutorial.

What else did you expect? There was a manual for first mice too, all changes require that.

Trow away him a motherboard, power connectors and ditch the manual, then laugh: hahaha, motherboard manufacturers will fail because real people don't know how to use it. What a failure of a design.

True that shutting down is not as easy as it should be but if it took you 20 minutes and you call yourself a web developer, you must be one big idiot!

JAB Creations said,
Took me, a highly technically proficient web developer 20 minutes to figure out how to shut that piece of crap off through the software.
You must be a terrible computer person if it took you that long. Charm Bar -> Power Button Icon -> Shutdown?

At least we see the technical prowess of your dad and know where yours came from.

nickcruz said,
True that shutting down is not as easy as it should be but if it took you 20 minutes and you call yourself a web developer, you must be one big idiot!

About what I'd expect from a web developer. Especially since any high schooler that reads the first few chapters of "HTML For Dummies" can call himself a "web developer."

MrHumpty said,
You must be a terrible computer person if it took you that long. Charm Bar -> Power Button Icon -> Shutdown?

At least we see the technical prowess of your dad and know where yours came from.


Real mature. We don't like his opinion, so bring on the insults. Neowin's descent into the hand of "little tyrants" continues...

JAB Creations said,
Someone gets paid by Microsoft because THIS is how real people use Windows 8...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU

Took me, a highly technically proficient web developer 20 minutes to figure out how to shut that piece of crap off through the software.

I'll stick with XP since it actually works until I'm comfortable enough with Linux. Debian + KDE seems to be the way to go currently.

lol @ "They try to drive me to Mac?"

Alot of people don't really know how unintuitive Windows 8 really is. Anybody who has doubts should watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIMuJTrxuhQ

Examples: Simple things like how do you get out of the lock screen? Or how do shut your PC off from metro? Or how do you even close a program? All of these have been rendered totally counter-intuitive in Windows 8. The list goes on.

My prediction is that Windows 8 WILL be a flop; You will blast me for saying it but I think this will be case-- for the simple reason that it does not appeal to the average consumer. It's unintuitive, disorganized, and appears as if it's unfinished. It belongs in the tablet market and that's as far as it should go.

That being said-- I will probably upgrade to it provided that I can boot into desktop and have classic start menu (start 8).