Google's Sergey Brin disappointed with Microsoft's China stance

Google co-founder Sergey Brin says he is disappointed in Microsoft for speaking out "against freedom of speech and human rights simply in order to contradict Google."

The comments came during an interview with The Guardian. Brin is calling on Washington to take a stand against China's Internet censorship. He believes the U.S. should make it a high priority and to act against Beijing's restrictions. The country's prohibition of sites, often referred to as the Great Firewall of China, halts access to a wide range of Western sites including YouTube, MySpace and Facebook.

Brin singled out Microsoft stating "I'm very disappointed for them in particular," he said. "As I understand, they have effectively no market share – so they essentially spoke against freedom of speech and human rights simply in order to contradict Google." The comments were a reaction to Microsoft chairman and co-founder Bill Gates' comments in January. "You've got to decide: do you want to obey the laws of the countries you're in or not?" Gates told ABC's Good Morning America earlier this year.

Google said on Monday that the company would no longer censor search results in China and re-directed its Google.cn domain to Hong Kong. China reacted by stating Google is "totally wrong" to stop censoring results and began blocking some Hong Kong Google search results.

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Hey Brin, why don't you come and tell me how to arrange my room? Or maybe request help from the US government?

This is not US' freaking problem. Or problem at all. Thats how the law is in China, not that your US laws are any better. FFS!

/rant

What I really don't get is that if Google were taking a 'moral' stance against the 'principles' of the Chinese government and their oppression, why would they only stop their Search business.

If Brin wants to take stand up for "freedom of speech and human rights" and wants the US goverment to join in too, why don't the *completely* pull out of China? They've only unfiltered their search results from HK. All of their other businesses and presence in China is unaltered.

If this ( added to the fact that Google was operating in China, abiding with their laws, and filtering results *till* they were hacked ) doesn't scream Hypocrisy, then I don't know what does...

i feel like saying this: I want to surf what i want, when i want.

I am sure that goes for anyone and anybody (even within China).

For those having trouble getting the big picture, picture if you girlfriend/boyfriend or wife/husband was living in China, imagine you wanted to talk about something that wasnt deemed 'good' by the government, and they forced you to not talk about it. How would that make you feel that someone is telling you and your significant other what you can and can't talk about in the privacy of your own email, chat, Skype or whatever.

China does not have my endorsement for censorship.

I lived in china before. It is not like what you said "they forced you to not talk about it".
This is totally the opinion of someone who has never lived there.

the people there do not have the urge to talk about democracy, to talk about the crackdown or freedom, or whatever popular terms against China. They just do not talk about it. The media doesn't mention it, so after long time, the people there do not even bother it. maybe the powerful propaganda has brainwashed them ( you can say so ). but u also gotta know that a lot of the older generation, despite their displeasure of the government or the party, still defend it when outsiders, foreigners or foreign governments criticize china. now you probably understand more why the people interviewed on the street do not care about google's withdraw. either they don't care, have a choice in Baidu, or it is the patriotism.

I don't agree with any party in this dispute.

chinese government: if there is nothing wrong it has done, why is it so desperate to hide something? that the people in china doesn't want to speak out does not mean they don't know anything about tian an men crackdown or something. over the history, the people there have learnt to shut the mouths to avoid trouble. if u try to hide something, it means there's something wrong. with the google incident now, the whole world outside China, if not already, has the bad (even if not correct) impression of China's reputation. For China, it is its reputation at stake.

google: freedom of speech is only available in the US. A lot of other developed countries do not even practice this freedom of speech. I am not saying it is either good or bad, but u need to know that other countries are different. and it is not up to google or US government to impose its value on other countries. The world is complex out there. You know the American value doesn't work elsewhere, for good or for bad. it just does not work. u don't have the God power to change everything and impose every of your opinion.

the whole thing is not good for any body, not for google, not for chinese government, and not for the chinese people. welcome to the reality.

if Google's China revenue were 50% of total, and they still decide to pull out, I'd say Google has principle. it is neither google's responsibility nor its capability to fight censorship in China.

If they'd boycotted China from the start, I might take notice. Since they didn't until the hacking scandal, they have no right to bitch about it.

first off would like to agree with the sentiment of if you want to do business in china you've got to play by their rules. not a huge fan of china or anything, but it's a soverign country.

as for google's do no evil, well that's pretty funny considering the provisions in their EULA for them to read and track your mail and other internet activity on their browser and services. the backdoor the chinese hackers exploited in tehir attack on gmail is there for the US gov't to to have an easier time reading YOUR emails, sometimes without a warrant.

another thing, how would you like it if a company like google failed to follow domestic business regulations and bilk investors in teh name of free enterprise or other political ideas? it's part of why we are just now recovering from a major downturn in teh economy, though tbh the regulations were loosened fairly recently leading to this, but ponzi schemes? free market at it's best(worst).

i use google search engine but stay away from their other products as their surveillance is unacceptable to me. if i want to share my browsing habits and the conents of my emails i'll make a blog and link them and the government to it while i'm at it where i share all my private info to strangers. do no evil, lolz.

Brin thinks that Microsoft is staying in China to contradict Google because that's all Brin and Google does, is try to contradict Microsoft every chance they get.
it's like a person who is cheating will always accuse his/her partner of cheating.

LOL I love how people are like freaking out about this, but all I have to say is this. Google went into china with the best of intentions, followed the rules, ect, ect. Sure some hackers may have ****ed them off, but the fact of the matter is that google isnt breaking any laws in my opinion. They pulled their operations out of china and basically said "Hey we're not here anymore but you can use this other google site instead." I totally agree with what they have done, If they dont believe in internet sensorship then they dont, and they have accordingly pulled out of china because of their belief in internet freedom. There is nothing worng with what they are doing and I dont know why people are chastizing a company for having some morals.

Gates is correct! If you want to do business, either you obey to do business or you disobey and leave. That's it. It is pure business decision. Censorship in China is bad but it is their political system and their beliefs of how human right should be. If Sergey want to involve in politics, she should run for congress or president of the united states of america.

satus said,
Gates is correct! If you want to do business, either you obey to do business or you disobey and leave. That's it. It is pure business decision. Censorship in China is bad but it is their political system and their beliefs of how human right should be. If Sergey want to involve in politics, she should run for congress or president of the united states of america.

No no no. If he wants to make a difference in China, he should move there, become a citizen and then try to run for office there. US vs. China, really??? I don't think so. Not gonna happen because of internet censorship.

satus said,
Gates is correct! If you want to do business, either you obey to do business or you disobey and leave. That's it. It is pure business decision. Censorship in China is bad but it is their political system and their beliefs of how human right should be. If Sergey want to involve in politics, she should run for congress or president of the united states of america.

Cannibalism is bad, but it is their belief's let them. 9/11 is bad, but if it is Al-Kaida's belief's, let them.....

Edited by ilev, Mar 24 2010, 7:40pm :

I think Google is right. Any goverment wich tells you what is wrong and right should not be tolerated. It should be the people dessiton of what is wrong and right and then the goverment rules it.

I want representatives in the goverment of me, my thoughts and ideals. Not a goverment telling me what should think and do (visiting a website wich provides of "wrong" content, a.k.a youtube or facebook)

I wish all the companies around the world including MS and others to start thinking like that about of the China's people and start complaining about the human rights of those workers who lives and breaths China's goverment laws.

Pulgafree said,

I want representatives in the goverment of me, my thoughts and ideals. Not a goverment telling me what should think and do (visiting a website wich provides of "wrong" content, a.k.a youtube or facebook)

That's fantastic, I'm sure you live in a country that supports your idea.

But are you really so arrogant as to say that you are right and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong? Why should the whole world adopt your way of thinking as right? I hate to tell you but China and other countries can manage just fine on their own and they have the right to set their own laws. If a foreign company wants to go into that country and do business they better respect the country they operate in and not expect them to bend to their own ideals.

I'm not saying I agree with China's position or not, I am just saying that it is pretty arrogant for an American company to assume they can just walk in and carry on business however they want even if it goes against that country's laws. Either operate in a lawful way (bend the way Microsoft has) or elect not to do business there (as Google has). Trying to force foreign ideas against a country's legal guidelines is just greedy and arrogant.

Pulgafree said,
Any goverment wich tells you what is wrong and right should not be tolerated.

I stopped reading here. That's what all governments do.

C_Guy said,

Trying to force foreign ideas against a country's legal guidelines is just greedy and arrogant.

People usually gets confused with this:

A goverment works as representatives of the people. Not viceversa. The actual system in China is corrupt, as many others. For example:

USA spend billions on the army, cosumes billions of gallons on fosil fuel, are one of the most CO2 producers in the world (as China), they don't have yet totally free medical help.

Mexico, Colombia, they still have millions of analphabet people, wich are exploted as cocaine producers/transporters to be selled in Europe, England included.

Russia provides gun power to Latino America. Nobody says anything. Here in Argentina got the Constitution's letter on 1853. We are a very new country in terms of civilization. All Latino America is like Argentina. We don't need weapons to kill us each other. We need infrastructure, health, food, water, economy development, education.

With the excuse of to being safe, countries buy guns. Safe from who? They answer: "Just in case."

Goverment don't tend to do what the people need. You know, they know, everybody does.

But don't tell me to stop feeding this corruption with stopping my bussines with a goverment wich violates most the of the human rights is being greedy and arrogant.

Edited by Pulgafree, Mar 24 2010, 8:09pm :

I thinks is childish to "be disappointed". Of course if you're in another country you have to obey the local laws, I mean common.... is just common sense and respect.

Another point to take into consideration Google is not out there in China as an ambassador to a cause, is there to make money, to be in business, not to make some kind of change in another country.

Gabureiru said,
I thinks is childish to "be disappointed". Of course if you're in another country you have to obey the local laws, I mean common.... is just common sense and respect.

Another point to take into consideration Google is not out there in China as an ambassador to a cause, is there to make money, to be in business, not to make some kind of change in another country.

I agree,


Brin is calling on Washington to TAKE A STAND against China's Internet censorship.

Maybe this is going a bit too far .. not everything must be "the american way" ..
What happened to cultural differences?

anyway .. I'm all in favor of freedom of speech, but imposing someone else's thinking is wrong

Stingray said,

Meme knowledge fail.

Yeah, it's a meme but it can also be classified as engrish. Especially in this case.

Stingray said,

Meme knowledge fail.

Civilized knowledgeable people with an IQ higher than 10 and a thinking process that outdoes that of an ADD 11-year-olds are not concerned with "memes". So please take your 4chan bs out of this, thanks.

mackenziepricee said,
What makes Google think that they can just walk into a country and do what ever the hell they want?

+1 Exactly.

Point here really is google just putting it out there to question Microsofts view where you draw the line in the sand with what's acceptable and what isn't when it comes expressing ideas about freedom, beliefs, human rights etc vs business. It's true it's now a blossom of problems after the hacking incident, but things can only bend so far really..

Digitalx said,
Point here really is google just putting it out there to question Microsofts view where you draw the line in the sand with what's acceptable and what isn't when it comes expressing ideas about freedom, beliefs, human rights etc vs business. It's true it's now a blossom of problems after the hacking incident, but things can only bend so far really..

Yet, that line was crossed for how long till Google got hacked? Why wait till you get attacked to wake up and cry about freedom? This is all just marketing spin. People need to understand that and move along. If Google managed to make any sort of dent in the chinese search market (which it never did) it would NEVER have pulled out, freedom be damned.

GP007 said,

Yet, that line was crossed for how long till Google got hacked? Why wait till you get attacked to wake up and cry about freedom? This is all just marketing spin. People need to understand that and move along. If Google managed to make any sort of dent in the chinese search market (which it never did) it would NEVER have pulled out, freedom be damned.


Well like it says bing/live search has practically zero usage in china yet they still side with idea of working with china and their policy of information dictatorship.

oh Google, you aren't Chinas darling ;P
Microsoft had this stance from the get go, before Google was forced to pull the plug in China two months after the fact.
did Google expect China to cave? thats pretty silly

So, Google is now a saint and everyone else is evil?

- Google didn't have a change in heart until they were hacked
- Google instead of using their own browser was using a browser that was nearly 9 years old. (no one is asking about this)

Why can't MS wait until they get hacked in China using an early version of Chrome? Why must they comply to Googs wishes now they are saints?

hmm, Chinese censorship sucks. But something isn't quite right about this whole Google embroglio either. Once this happened (using an ancient browser instead of their own), governments came out against IE (not ver 6 that was used... but all versions) just around the browser ballot deployment.

If Google was so pure, why did they 'compromise' with the chinese athorities to begin with?

Some would say that you can affect change from the inside, not by giving up and leavning. Maybe the Yahoo's, Microsofts and others will affect change slowly but surely over time sitting in the trenches.

So, Google is now a saint and everyone else is evil?

- Google didn't have a change in heart until they were hacked
- Google instead of using their own browser was using a browser that was nearly 9 years old. (no one is asking about this)

Why can't MS wait until they get hacked in China using an early version of Chrome? Why must they comply to Googs wishes now they are saints?

hmm, Chinese censorship sucks. But something isn't quite right about this whole Google embroglio either. Once this happened (using an ancient browser instead of their own), governments came out against IE (not ver 6 that was used... but all versions) just around the browser ballot deployment.

If Google was so pure, why did they 'compromise' with the chinese athorities to begin with?

Some would say that you can affect change from the inside, not by giving up and leavning. Maybe the Yahoo's, Microsofts and others will affect change slowly but surely over time sitting in the trenches.

majg said,
- Google instead of using their own browser was using a browser that was nearly 9 years old. (no one is asking about this)

Google wasn't using IE6, their USERS were using IE6 and got hacked, and a vulnerability in IE6 allowed the hackers to access Google's systems. Why don't you blame the masses of users that refuse to turn on Windows Update? They're the real problem.

Governments came out against IE6 because of the massive number attacks being carried out via it's vulnerabilities across an array of organizations, not because of the attack against Google.

majg said,
- Google didn't have a change in heart until they were hacked
- Google instead of using their own browser was using a browser that was nearly 9 years old. (no one is asking about this)

Well, to be fair, Google did have to support IE 6 for all content that they created. Therefore, it was just a matter of finding the machine that was doing that and abuse the exploit on it.

I find it hard to believe that Google let itself get hacked using IE 6 just to make Microsoft look bad--while in the process losing who-knows-what to China, and likely giving it to Baidu (China's major search engine).

With that said, I do agree that Google is a bit hypocritical considering that they only remembered "Do No Evil" after cohorting with an evil regime came back to bite them. Still, they have now done the right thing and pulled out while doing everything to point out China as the villain. They at least deserve credit for that.

Also, it's a bit presumptuous to conclude that Microsoft was not hacked. I would bet that Microsoft was attacked during the exact same attack, but they have not gone public with it. I am of the opinion that most companies should pull out of China, ignoring the Great Wall of China, and simply on the basis that they have no respect for their own citizens, let-alone the corporations using them, and thus they steal everything that they can. I could not imagine working in a country where the country itself was actively trying to steal everything useful that you produce, all-the-while cooperating at every step.

pickypg said,

I find it hard to believe that Google let itself get hacked using IE 6 just to make Microsoft look bad--while in the process losing who-knows-what to China, and likely giving it to Baidu (China's major search engine).

With that said, I do agree that Google is a bit hypocritical considering that they only remembered "Do No Evil" after cohorting with an evil regime came back to bite them. Still, they have now done the right thing and pulled out while doing everything to point out China as the villain. They at least deserve credit for that.

Also, it's a bit presumptuous to conclude that Microsoft was not hacked. I would bet that Microsoft was attacked during the exact same attack, but they have not gone public with it. I am of the opinion that most companies should pull out of China, ignoring the Great Wall of China, and simply on the basis that they have no respect for their own citizens, let-alone the corporations using them, and thus they steal everything that they can. I could not imagine working in a country where the country itself was actively trying to steal everything useful that you produce, all-the-while cooperating at every step.


+1

So let's review: instead of standing up for "freedom of speech and human rights" in the first place, Google accepts China's laws. Then Chinese hackers make Google mad, so Google decides to stop censoring results. Now Google criticizes others for making the same decision they made in the first place?

Typical arrogant hypocrisy from Google, and Brin in particular. How nice it must be to be so morally superior to everyone else.

SiLeNtDeAtH said,
So let's review: instead of standing up for "freedom of speech and human rights" in the first place, Google accepts China's laws. Then Chinese hackers make Google mad, so Google decides to stop censoring results. Now Google criticizes others for making the same decision they made in the first place?

Typical arrogant hypocrisy from Google, and Brin in particular. How nice it must be to be so morally superior to everyone else.

+1

I actually think the Chinese hack was way worse than Google has let on, and they got scared ****less and decided that now is a good time to get out before they're wonderful holly Google cloud is shown to be swiss cheese.

I don't see the problem with what Gates said...it's the simple truth that you have either obey or disobey another countries laws.

For Google to press the US to take a stand against China is ridiculous. It is not our business to police China's ideals! I don't see how this can be construed as something against human rights. Internet freedom in now a human right? Come on...This kind of policing is what makes the words "United States" and "Diplomacy" oxymoronic.

Xenosion said,
I don't see the problem with what Gates said...it's the simple truth that you have either obey or disobey another countries laws.

+1 "Our house, our rules" is the argument you see in many threads here involving sensationalist stories about immigration or islamic punishments. The same policy should also apply to business.

I don't approve of the state censoring the internet in any country (and you have places like Australia trying to do exactly the same with their filtering plans) but you don't knowingly go into that situation and then expect it to change to suit you.

protocol7 said,

+1 "Our house, our rules" is the argument you see in many threads here involving sensationalist stories about immigration or islamic punishments. The same policy should also apply to business.

I don't approve of the state censoring the internet in any country (and you have places like Australia trying to do exactly the same with their filtering plans) but you don't knowingly go into that situation and then expect it to change to suit you.

100%.
Being Australian I an totally against the censorship, but that doesnt mean I expect some company that thinks they can win at everything to break the law.

guruparan said,
Its MS decision and business model to decide to whether come out or not, why does Brin is 'disappointed' with this?

Because he's trying to get good PR out of this by going after MS one of their main competitors for censoring searches in china or w/e.

Brin needs to STFU, if he was so morally good about this Google never would've started doing the same damn thing 4 or 5 years ago. He's a damn hypocrite.

I don't blame Microsoft there. Windows has a lot of market share in China, and it's a very important market for MS, so of course they have to respect the laws there.

Also, don't you find it funny that when Microsoft doesn't follow laws, everybody screams at them, but when they do follow laws, people tell them not to?

What do you mean when you say they have a lot of market share? Doesn't China have the largest ratio of pirated Windows installations in the world?

I think they now understand the pain of being under the radar in other countries. Typical arrogance from Google which thinks that it can behave anyway it wants in other countries just because it is an American company.

spenumatsa said,
I think they now understand the pain of being under the radar in other countries. Typical arrogance from Google which thinks that it can behave anyway it wants in other countries just because it is an American company.

+1

spenumatsa said,
I think they now understand the pain of being under the radar in other countries. Typical arrogance from Google which thinks that it can behave anyway it wants in other countries just because it is an American company.

+1

spenumatsa said,
I think they now understand the pain of being under the radar in other countries. Typical arrogance from Google which thinks that it can behave anyway it wants in other countries just because it is an American company.

+1...

-1
Google goes by its principles, and believes in freedom of speech. It's great to see a company the size of Google make a move such as this. When others do nothing, only thinking of the monetary profit, companies like Google take action. Makes you wonder what the principals of these other companies are (if they even consider having those).
Go Google .

Lechio said,
-1
Google goes by its principles, and believes in freedom of speech. It's great to see a company the size of Google make a move such as this. When others do nothing, only thinking of the monetary profit, companies like Google take action. Makes you wonder what the principals of these other companies are (if they even consider having those).
Go Google .

+1 to this.

In all seriousness, it sounds like spenumatsa is more bitter towards America than actually taking the time to look at what's really going on here. Personally, I don't give a rats ass where Google is located, any company taking this stance surely has my support. Most companies these days are just more concerned with making a profit; the hell with morals and principles.

Lechio said,
-1
Google goes by its principles, and believes in freedom of speech. It's great to see a company the size of Google make a move such as this. When others do nothing, only thinking of the monetary profit, companies like Google take action. Makes you wonder what the principals of these other companies are (if they even consider having those).
Go Google .

-1 for you. Google is going after the wrong target. No one wanna **** with the Chinese government, especially when they own 1+ trillions of U.S debt. The moment they wanna kill the U.S economy, all they have to do is release those debt along with their dollar reserve into the U.S economy. Freedom of speech is overrated and it's taking for granted in the U.S anyway. The movement have to be within the Chinese people if they really want to achieve their freedom of speech. Just look what the U.S caused by waging war in the name of democracy around the world. Google is f*cking with the wrong people for good publicity, and the Pentagon probably is in cahoot with Google in this cyberwar by now.

Edited by flexkeyboard, Mar 24 2010, 4:37pm :

Lechio said,
-1
Google goes by its principles, and believes in freedom of speech. It's great to see a company the size of Google make a move such as this. When others do nothing, only thinking of the monetary profit, companies like Google take action. Makes you wonder what the principals of these other companies are (if they even consider having those).
Go Google .

Well, out of Google's entire revenues I doubt that pulling out of China would leave a dent in their bank account.And to the guy who said freedom of speech is overrated, I'm guessing you're commenting on behalf of the Chinese government? LOL

But really, even though I doubt Google did this for the "values", it's nice to see someone standing up to the currently barbaric practices of the Chinese government.

Edited by Paul Paliath, Mar 24 2010, 4:33pm :

Paulz0r said,

Well, out of Google's entire revenues I doubt that pulling out of China would leave a dent in their bank account.And to the guy who said freedom of speech is overrated, I'm guessing you're commenting on behalf of the Chinese government? LOL

But really, even though I doubt Google did this for the "values", it's nice to see someone standing up to the currently barbaric practices of the Chinese government.

Oh please...The only barbaric government around I see is the U.S killing millions of innocent Afghans and Iraqis in the name of democracy. Did I mention Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Columbia, Pakistan, and oh and so too much other countries I can't name them all.

Oh (and I assume you're in the States) what have you use your freedom of speech thus far? Did you use it to voice your opinion in stopping those wars? Or stopping your insane Congress that is wasting trillions of the people hard earn dollars in taxes. Did you voice your opinion against the recent missile drones that, and I quote "accidentally" kill dozens of people in Afghanistan. Go ahead, practice your freedom of speech if you can, oh wait you might be afraid of your FBI and CIA arresting your ass. Like I said, freedom of speech is 'overrated' and taken for granted.

Edited by flexkeyboard, Mar 24 2010, 4:09pm :

Lechio said,
-1
Google goes by its principles, and believes in freedom of speech. It's great to see a company the size of Google make a move such as this. When others do nothing, only thinking of the monetary profit, companies like Google take action. Makes you wonder what the principals of these other companies are (if they even consider having those).
Go Google .

I guess you are too much of a fanboy to understand what a corporation is.

vice le von said,

Oh please...The only barbaric government around I see is the U.S killing millions of innocent Afghans and Iraqis in the name of democracy. Did I mention Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Columbia, Pakistan, and oh and so too much other countries I can't name them all.

Oh (and I assume you're in the States) what have you use your freedom of speech thus far? Did you use it to voice your opinion in stopping those wars? Or stopping your insane Congress that is wasting trillions of the people hard earn dollars in taxes. Did you voice your opinion against the recent missile drones that, and I quote "accidentally" kill dozens of people in Afghanistan. Go ahead, practice your freedom of speech if you can, oh wait you might be afraid of your FBI and CIA arresting your ass. Like I said, freedom of speech is 'overrated' and taken for granted.

LOL interesting POV and well said.

Edited by Jebadiah, Mar 24 2010, 5:15pm :

vice le von said,

Oh please...The only barbaric government around I see is the U.S killing millions of innocent Afghans and Iraqis in the name of democracy. Did I mention Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Columbia, Pakistan, and oh and so too much other countries I can't name them all.

Oh (and I assume you're in the States) what have you use your freedom of speech thus far? Did you use it to voice your opinion in stopping those wars? Or stopping your insane Congress that is wasting trillions of the people hard earn dollars in taxes. Did you voice your opinion against the recent missile drones that, and I quote "accidentally" kill dozens of people in Afghanistan. Go ahead, practice your freedom of speech if you can, oh wait you might be afraid of your FBI and CIA arresting your ass. Like I said, freedom of speech is 'overrated' and taken for granted.

So I assume you condone the many crimes against humanity the Chinese government have committed against the years? The fact that many North Koreans live inhumane, scary lives? The many executions without good reason conducted by most of these dictatorships? How Iranians were suppressed by the government for protesting a rigged election that essentially put a psychopath in power once more?

-1
Google goes by its principles, and believes in freedom of speech. It's great to see a company the size of Google make a move such as this. When others do nothing, only thinking of the monetary profit, companies like Google take action. Makes you wonder what the principals of these other companies are (if they even consider having those).
Go Google .

So where was Google's stance on human rights and free speech all those years they operated in China censoring results? Oh that's right, it was non existent.

This is just Google playing hardball with the Chinese Government, going oh look you dared to hack us now see how much damage we can cause you in return.

Everything else they say about the matter is just a PR stunt.

So I assume you condone the many crimes against humanity the Chinese government have committed against the years? The fact that many North Koreans live inhumane, scary lives? The many executions without good reason conducted by most of these dictatorships? How Iranians were suppressed by the government for protesting a rigged election that essentially put a psychopath in power once more?

All we can do is condone it. Or do you want to go to war with every country in the world that suppresses free speech, which by the way is almost every country in the world but to varying degrees.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 24 2010, 6:03pm :

vice le von said,

-1 for you. Google is going after the wrong target. No one wanna **** with the Chinese government, especially when they own 1+ trillions of U.S debt. The moment they wanna kill the U.S economy, all they have to do is release those debt along with their dollar reserve into the U.S economy. Freedom of speech is overrated and it's taking for granted in the U.S anyway. The movement have to be within the Chinese people if they really want to achieve their freedom of speech. Just look what the U.S caused by waging war in the name of democracy around the world. Google is f*cking with the wrong people for good publicity, and the Pentagon probably is in cahoot with Google in this cyberwar by now.

-1 for you too.
you have got ur fundamentals wrong...
think of how the chinese are being brainwashed, by their govt.,they listen, hear and speak what the govt. wants them to, and if they dont, well, they are scr*w*d

vice le von said,

Oh please...The only barbaric government around I see is the U.S killing millions of innocent Afghans and Iraqis in the name of democracy. Did I mention Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Columbia, Pakistan, and oh and so too much other countries I can't name them all.


and what about China ****ing up african nations [Darfur], ??
imagine the fact that had u been in china you wud'nt have had the freedom to go on bashing your own country like this.....

vice le von said,

-1 for you. Google is going after the wrong target. No one wanna **** with the Chinese government, especially when they own 1+ trillions of U.S debt. The moment they wanna kill the U.S economy, all they have to do is release those debt along with their dollar reserve into the U.S economy. Freedom of speech is overrated and it's taking for granted in the U.S anyway. The movement have to be within the Chinese people if they really want to achieve their freedom of speech. Just look what the U.S caused by waging war in the name of democracy around the world. Google is f*cking with the wrong people for good publicity, and the Pentagon probably is in cahoot with Google in this cyberwar by now.

Do you mean that you have sold your soul to the Chinese who own you now ? so you are walking tip-toed around them ?

vice le von said,
Google is f*cking with the wrong people for good publicity, and the Pentagon probably is in cahoot with Google in this cyberwar by now.

Well at least the NSA is.

/- Razorfold said,

So where was Google's stance on human rights and free speech all those years they operated in China censoring results? Oh that's right, it was non existent.

This is just Google playing hardball with the Chinese Government, going oh look you dared to hack us now see how much damage we can cause you in return.

Everything else they say about the matter is just a PR stunt.

Exactly. Its all a bunch of tripe really. Theyre pulling out after the security issues in Jan and using censorship as the reason to gain support. To even have the nerve to criticize other companies after they happily operated there for years is absurd.

Theres countless other countries that I'm sure they could pull the Google site if they really believed in human rights. It's not like China is the only or worst place to be out there, its just the one thats inconvenienced Google the most.

Ksquare said,

-1 for you too.
you have got ur fundamentals wrong...
think of how the chinese are being brainwashed, by their govt.,they listen, hear and speak what the govt. wants them to, and if they dont, well, they are scr*w*d

Been to China before buddy?

Just because the government doesn't want you to see something doesn't mean they'll force feed propaganda down your throat.

Censorship is a bitch, that's why VPNs were created.

Jebadiah said,
I guess you are too much of a fanboy to understand what a corporation is.

Fanboy of what, freedom of speech, human rights?
Everyday.

What some people fail to understand is that some of the Google servers that got hacked by the Chinese had mails of known "dissidents" and supporters of human rights in China... We all know how the Chinese government is fond of these people and what they do to them when they are "found guilty".

Evidently Google will take some PR dividends out of this, but you can bet they will loose a lot (financially speaking).
Google took action and decided to do something about a situation they consider that goes against their principles, even if they didn't took this kind action that resulted in suspending google.ch, it would still be a positive move as all of this case raised awareness over what is going on in that part of the world. Others, on the other hand, just remain quiet and keep pactuating with these types of regimes, thinking only about the monetary factor.

Edited by Lechio, Mar 25 2010, 1:04am :

spenumatsa said,
I think they now understand the pain of being under the radar in other countries. Typical arrogance from Google which thinks that it can behave anyway it wants in other countries just because it is an American company.

+2

dead.cell said,

+1 to this.

In all seriousness, it sounds like spenumatsa is more bitter towards America than actually taking the time to look at what's really going on here. Personally, I don't give a rats ass where Google is located, any company taking this stance surely has my support. Most companies these days are just more concerned with making a profit; the hell with morals and principles.

Agreed. If China demands respect for their laws then conversely the same is true for any non-Chinese anything. Google took a stand and left. Good for Google.

Paulz0r said,

So I assume you condone the many crimes against humanity the Chinese government have committed against the years? The fact that many North Koreans live inhumane, scary lives? The many executions without good reason conducted by most of these dictatorships? How Iranians were suppressed by the government for protesting a rigged election that essentially put a psychopath in power once more?

You think Dubya is any less of a psychopath compared to Ahmedenijad? You think what he and his cohorts unleashed in Iraq was any less barbarous than what happened in China or Iraq or Iran?

Do you even for a minute believe that his First term election was not rigged? Do you think even for a moment that if Iraq had managed to acquire/develop nuclear bomb any US president would have thought about invading it even for the the oil? They keep talking about north Korea but dare not undertake any foray out of fear of nuclear response on the south.

I was in the US during the 2008 presidential elections. From what I saw on the tv on different channels it appeared to me to be no different from any other power drunk system.

spenumatsa said,
I think they now understand the pain of being under the radar in other countries. Typical arrogance from Google which thinks that it can behave anyway it wants in other countries just because it is an American company.

-1. And I bet your Ur-a-pee'in

vice le von said,
-1 for you. Google is going after the wrong target. No one wanna **** with the Chinese government, especially when they own 1+ trillions of U.S debt. The moment they wanna kill the U.S economy, all they have to do is release those debt along with their dollar reserve into the U.S economy.
Urgh, I wish people would listen to whole news stories before freaking out. China can't just "release" the debt, they have to either break contract (which they can't) or sell the debt on, which the US wouldn't give a **** about and would probably end up with China making a loss.

Edited by Uhyve, Mar 31 2010, 11:55am :

Lechio said,
-1
Google goes by its principles, and believes in freedom of speech. It's great to see a company the size of Google make a move such as this. When others do nothing, only thinking of the monetary profit, companies like Google take action. Makes you wonder what the principals of these other companies are (if they even consider having those).
Go Google .

+1 You know you fat lazy bumbs sitting at ur comptas google would do more than u do.