Editorial

I'm a PC and is Windows 8 my idea?

We all remember the "I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea" initiative from Microsoft, it was promoted extensively around the world. But what about Windows 8; is that really my idea?

From reviewing the past few screenshot leaks and blog posts from the Building Windows 8 blog, I'm not so sure. As of yet there hasn't been an announcement by Steve Sinofsky on the removal of the start orb. Other recent posts like power management are encouraging, even if they appear to favour handheld devices such as tablets over a traditional PC. I also haven't seen any evidence on how the desktop experience has been improved over Windows 7, aside from the addition of a ribbon and, again, wonderful for touch input, the dragging of folders to a location in the address bar in Explorer. If only that was in Windows 7!

Let's also not forget dragging Metro apps down to the bottom of the screen is also great for tablets, but what about closing them on a desktop with the traditional close button?


Whoop, no Start orb for you!

The Metro user interface is obviously geared toward touch screens and devices with limited screen space, a concept that works very well on Windows Phone 7 due to the screen size. But when it comes to traditional desktops with screens in excess of 21" and in many cases multiple displays, all we're going to see here is a massive grid of applications on what used to be the Windows Desktop; and now the start orb has been removed in favour of some pop out that is obviously designed for finger pointing.


Good for touch devices, not so for traditional PCs.

Yes, we know we can switch back to the desktop and that it'll be the hub for traditional tasks such as file management and legacy applications; I say legacy because from what I can see, legacy apps will probably all end up as Metro apps that can be launched from the Start Panel, and eventually the desktop will not be needed at all, just like on a Windows Phone.

I like having a taskbar that shows the applications that are currently running complemented with the notifications area, and the management tools that go with it. I also like feeling that the Desktop is "home" or the Start Screen if you will.

Back when Windows 7 was in testing, I asked why the "Superbar" wouldn't be extended to a second or 3rd screen (there is a shareware app or alternatives that do this well), and the response from Microsoft was that users would get confused with the taskbar being on more than one screen. It could have been a power user option, but no.

Now with Metro, the grid spans as many screens as you have: Happy hunting for that app in a year's time when your grid goes on forever! And moreso, on a laptop with a small screen without touch capability. Good luck using the Metro Start Panel unless you know what you're searching for.

To me, Microsoft should have designed a SKU specifically for touch devices and tablets, and a version for the traditional desktop that can possibly make use of the touch features with an add-on pack or simple change of "Windows Features" that can be turned on or off. Instead it feels like Microsoft is putting their eggs all in one basket, with the expectation that in maybe two or three years time everything will be "touch."

This seems wrong.


Now where did I leave that app?

Now we appear to have stepped backward to a two dimensional design that allows you to scroll endlessly left and right if you have enough pinned on the Start Panel, really emulating the Windows 7 Phone.

A desktop as a giant Windows Phone, with features that are clearly there for touch input, on a desktop.

So is Windows 8 really my idea? From what I've seen so far, no. I guess we'll find out on February 29th, and I'm still willing to be proven wrong.

You can follow our latest Windows 8 news coverage here and also in our forums.

Images courtesy of: Building Windows 8, PCBeta & Winunleaked.tk

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Is Windows 8 YOUR idea?

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Touch devices (and Windows 8) are ruining PCs.

Look what Google did to Youtube and has now been doing to all of its services. The whole mobile.domain.tld is being replaced in favor of a unified site that can actually be navigated with touch input, regardless of how poor of an experience it becomes to input peripherals like a mouse and keyboard and widescreen displays, aka PC users.

Want your wide grid based style of browsing content? You don't need it anymore! Now it's replaced by a bloated list based style where you see 80% less of the content on the page and everything's nested into subsections of the main page! (I'm describing Youtube's change if you didn't already figure that out.)

I've stopped using YT for anything and rely solely on e-mail updates because of the massive annoyance to visibly see new uploads from my subscriptions and what's watched or not.

Needless to say, I won't be going anywhere near Windows 8.

Ok, the author is either insane, clueless, or doesn't comprehend things well.

Most of the complaints in the article are not true, or do not take into the concepts of what they mean.

It would be like writing about a Car, and complaining that there is no place for his feedbag, and the saddle no longer fits like it did on his awesome horse.

This is a good example of information and knowledge with no understanding or ability to deduct what the information means.

For example, the missing Start orb is for touch only? Really? You seriously cannot move your mouse to the corner of your screen, which is faster, easier and takes up less screen space, all positive things. Yet the author complains about it...

Basically people are complaining that Windows 8 is not Windows 7. Why would you want a new OS that doesn't move technology and UI concepts forward? If this type of thinking was used, Windows 7 would look like Windows 1.0.

And yet if Windows 8 didn't look any different than Windows 7, people would complain that it was just a re-release of Windows 7 and Microsoft trying to rip off customers.

Geesh.


The whole, keep the old UI stuff is really strange in the world of 'technology' and progress...
(This kind of thinking only makes for Mac users, as OS X has kept the same antiquated GUI concepts that were outdated by 1986, and yet 25 years later, it is still how Mac users work. There is a reason why productivity studies show Windows users to be several times more efficient and proficient at completing their daily tasks.)

Windows 8 may not be my idea and I do not care. What I know is that I am gonna get a magnificent OS in a few days.

Windows 8 wins all the way! Sorry haters!

smooth3006 said,
I wont be buying rest assured. Quit being soo closed minded and childish. Not everyone likes metro, accept it!

and not everyone doesn't likes metro, accept it!

digitheatre said,

and not everyone doesn't likes metro, accept it!

He did accept it. That is why he said user choice, not forced to go one way or the other. Very clear distinction in his post.

smooth3006 said,
I wont be buying rest assured. Quit being soo closed minded and childish. Not everyone likes metro, accept it!

I already accepted it, perhaps you didn't get the gist of "Then don't buy it". But to call somebody childish and closed minded just because they happen to like something new and different, is well just as you say... childish.

If you don't like it, then you don't like it. Nobody is forcing you to buy it, and I couldn't give two hoots if you do or you don't. But to continue moaning about something of which you have no control is pointless, and as you said earlier.. is "troll bait".

smooth3006 said,
I wont be buying rest assured. Quit being soo closed minded and childish. Not everyone likes metro, accept it!

And why does buying Windows 8 hinge solely on liking Metro or not? You don't have to use the Metro Apps or UI, flip it off, make it look like Windows 7 and take advantage of the other features that range from new GPU technologies, kernel optimizations, new inherent hardware support, file system improvements along with user 'seeable' things like new non-Metro Apps, a store for regular Applications, and the LiveID integration technologies that enhance security, integrate Live/SkyDrive and cloud syncing, and bring the 'roaming' concepts that only were available to corporate users in a Server managed environment to everyday users.

Fine hate Metro, but that is just one piece of the changes in Win8, but because it is the most 'noticeable' it is what the press keep talking about and what people see.

If there was no new Metro and Metro Apps, Win8 would still be an impressive upgrade from Windows 7, further optimizing on the foundations that Vista introduced and moving users forward to better hardware independence and better compatibility.

What is weird, without Metro and 'visible' changes, people complain because they don't see the enhancements to an OS that work below the Applications that move the potential for development and features forward.

Back when users were making the move to XP, a lot of people dismissed it, because it didn't look 'significantly' different, yet it was more of a jump in OS technology than System 9 to OS X.

The same was true of Vista, as it looked a bit different, but that wasn't impressive to XP users, and still isn't as you find people clinging to XP even today.

The main changes in Vista were massive and the fact that a regular Application didn't look any different was the true magic, as it was being rendered by a whole new video system, along with new sound and network stacks and a host of other big advancements that users don't see or hear.

An audiophile will tell ya the distortion rate of resampling in Windows 7 is far beyond XP and superior to OS X for professional audio production, and it does it faster with lower latency than XP or OS X. It is why a messenger voice call on Windows 7 is better than your cell phone for latency. (Try it have a friend on the phone and on messenger, the cell phone will be 1/2 to 1 seconds behind messenger. It is also why sound output is crisp and beyond what a professional studio would need for 'rendered' sound, yet in can do in real-time.

Do you notice that Windows 7 can output 36bit,40bit, even 48bit video, and again is the only OS that can do so? (Which is weird when Mac designers are buying the new 36bit displays, yet OS X can only produce 24bit color with an 8bit transparency aka 32bit.)

So stop trolling the Metro crap, and ignore it and look for what you will benefit from in Windows 8. And you might find you like a Metro App here or there, or you never will, it don't matter.

i just don't like the fact microsoft is basically pushing metro down out throats. i mean it's not for everyone and im all for user choice. it's a damn shame some of the themes out there made by the users are 10x better than what ships with the OS. maybe balmer better hire a new design team.

smooth3006 said,
Maybe Ballmer better hire a new design team.

Well, Gizmodo seems to disagree with you. & I quote with from an interview with the head of the Microsoft design team: "Microsoft's been doing concepts for a long time, these cool wiz-bang UIs, and with Metro, it's like, 'Oh hey, these are in real products now.'"

&, trust me, those wiz-bang concepts are really... wiz-bang: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8b-BFoNuA

smooth3006 said,
i just don't like the fact microsoft is basically pushing metro down out throats. i mean it's not for everyone and im all for user choice. it's a damn shame some of the themes out there made by the users are 10x better than what ships with the OS. maybe balmer better hire a new design team.

Then don't buy it. Simple. Quit moaning about something of which you have zero control. Also quit saying "our throats" etc. You do not speak for, nor represent the opinions of everybody here, far from it.

OSX's Launchpad is an utterly useless thing on my 30" 2560x1600 screen. It works fine on my 1280x800 laptop but with that much screen estate, the icons still scale to span the whole damn screen making selection require unnecessary amounts of mouse slinging.

I believe the Metro UI will fall into this exact same trap on anything that isn't a laptop or tablet.

It's a real shame that Microsoft seemingly stopped listening to their users. Win7 was a huge success because they did lots of things right. Sites like Windows7 Taskforce have several thousand little things that they could look at and fix but instead we seem to get barely any relevant improvements to the desktop experience.

LaXu said,
OSX's Launchpad is an utterly useless thing.

Well, yeah, Launchpad is a useless thing because, they kinda said it themselves, all their doing is launching apps the way you do on the iPad, & it's not like OSX is gonaa be made for tablets, unlike Windows 8. Meanwhile, Windows 8's Metro is a whole application framework & UI...

microsoft need to make two separate versions of w8. the metro version for smartphones & tablets and just a revised aero with no metro for the desktop/non touch screens. i know it isn't going to happen but it should!

smooth3006 said,
microsoft need to make two separate versions of w8. the metro version for smartphones & tablets and just a revised aero with no metro for the desktop/non touch screens. i know it isn't going to happen but it should!

They need do nothing of the sort. Anybody with half an ounce of computer experience will be able to avoid Metro for the most part should they wish to.

smooth3006 said,
microsoft need to make two separate versions of w8. the metro version for smartphones & tablets and just a revised aero with no metro for the desktop/non touch screens. i know it isn't going to happen but it should!

That's what I tought. They introduces a big change/paradigm in Win8, it would take awhile (if not long time) for users to adapt. I'm gonna miss my ordinary start menu...

smooth3006 said,

okay so can i haz w10?

You can have all the rest of them if you want: Windows 10, Windows 11, Windows 12, bla... bla... bla...

Windows-8 is for tablets and smartphones with numerous aps that users want to bounce back and forth amongst them, and maybe some tap, tap, slide, tap... to perform some rudimentary actions. What, is any, is there for those of use with keyboard-centric PCs that use a few applications and who have intensive data entry requirements? Microsoft has said nothing. As for the ARM vs x86 or x64 architecture, that is totally irrelevant to the user interface--that is behind-the-scenes stuff (probably critical for tablets and smartphones with very limited battery life).

TsarNikky said,
Windows-8 is for tablets and smartphones with numerous aps that users want to bounce back and forth amongst them, and maybe some tap, tap, slide, tap... to perform some rudimentary actions. What, is any, is there for those of use with keyboard-centric PCs that use a few applications and who have intensive data entry requirements? Microsoft has said nothing. As for the ARM vs x86 or x64 architecture, that is totally irrelevant to the user interface--that is behind-the-scenes stuff (probably critical for tablets and smartphones with very limited battery life).

Perhaps you've been living under a rock recently. Windows 8 is not just about the new interface, although that seems to be all that people are focussing on. Go up and ready Johnny's post. Also those "intensive data entry" applications you speak of have not gone anywhere, they'll run perfectly well in Windows 8 right alongside Metro apps, or even on a second screen (which people who input data intensively will likely have).

Also for the record, an improvement in the support for touchscreen absolutely does not mean the keyboard and mouse interaction is any worse. You can still do everything in Windows 8 that you could do in Windows 7, albeit granted in a slightly different way in some cases.

I said from the get go Windows 8 would fail... Everyone bashed me and called me a troll... Well now look at that ****... lol

Dusco25 said,
I said from the get go Windows 8 would fail... Everyone bashed me and called me a troll... Well now look at that ****... lol

Now look at what exactly? There are a few people that agree with you? Big deal. Just as many disagree with you. Nope, still a troll

Dusco25 said,
I said from the get go Windows 8 would fail... Everyone bashed me and called me a troll... Well now look at that ****... lol

i also said w8 will be a failure but everytime i do im called a troll.

TCLN Ryster said,

Now look at what exactly? There are a few people that agree with you? Big deal. Just as many disagree with you. Nope, still a troll
if hes a troll then your baiting. Go away fanboy!

Dusco25 said,
I said from the get go Windows 8 would fail... Everyone bashed me and called me a troll... Well now look at that ****... lol

Windows 8 haven't come out yet.. and it is not yet fail.. so basically you are a troll.... next!

smooth3006 said,
if hes a troll then your baiting. Go away fanboy!

Does the word "hypocrisy" have any meaning to you my friend?

Now with Metro, the grid spans as many screens as you have: Happy hunting for that app in a year's time when your grid goes on forever!

I actually prefer this as it is easier to see everything. The Windows 7 start menu was a step back from XP on everything except for the "Search" functionality. The search functionality is quite poor in my experience. For instance, searching for "web browser" should bring up a list of installed web browsers. Also, if you type out the last portion of a name of something sometimes the search lags and takes a lot longer to complete (not as efficient as Spotlight is on Mac OS X IMO). For instance if you search for "VNC" on my computer right now it sits there and hangs and i get a list of results none of which are TightVNC Viewer.

Don't get me started on the convoluted menu system to search for a program. I understand that MS was having problems with multiple screen resolutions and when the old start menu started to span multiple columns on a screen it was kind of messy...but at least the information was spread out across my screen so I can find what I'm looking for! Now I have to utilize scroll bars in a tiny space that is really poorly designed.

Next thing.. No-one is forced to spend their time in WinRT apps, or on the Start Screen. Once you launch the desktop, you can sleep and hibernate a million times and always wake up back on the desktop. Your taskbar is still there for you to launch apps with. So when do you need to see the Start Screen? On first boot, when you're guaranteed to launch an app anyway and the Start Screen is not "covering up" any existing windows. That's it. The hate is misplaced, and a lack of open minds will only prevent you from enjoying the new benefits.

I think I'll wait for Windows 9

There are many half-baked technology in it that needs to be tested massively first. This Metro UI is as one big example, then Ribbon in Windows Explorer, ReFS, IE10 (desktop and Metro versions), etc. If there are anything wrong with them in Windows 8 (yes, there are), MS surely will fix them in Windows 9.

mahara said,
I think I'll wait for Windows 9

There are many half-baked technology in it that needs to be tested massively first. This Metro UI is as one big example, then Ribbon in Windows Explorer, ReFS, IE10 (desktop and Metro versions), etc. If there are anything wrong with them in Windows 8 (yes, there are), MS surely will fix them in Windows 9.


You are aware that the product is still beta right? That's the very definition of half-baked.

And the fact you haven't actually tried the product, makes your opinion kind of invalid. Like saying you don't like tomatoes, when you've only ever seen a picture of one.

Edited by Ryster, Feb 9 2012, 6:13pm :

TCLN Ryster said,

You are aware that the product is still beta right? That's the very definition of half-baked.

And the fact you haven't actually tried the product, makes your opinion kind of invalid. Like saying you don't like tomatoes, when you've only ever seen a picture of one.

I think it's what's called prediction. We'll see if this prediction would be right then.

But apart from it, if you recalled how ReFS features aren't fully implemented yet in Windows 8 Server, not to mention Window 8 client would trully support it, in the RTM as they said, I would call it a half-baked technology, not a trully full-featured and not yet well-proven.

This article, all kinds of fail. Windows 8 does not deserve this FUD.

For one, the author claims the Start Screen spreads across multiple monitors when Microsoft already demonstrated, on the very first day, that it doesn't. That means the author doesn't know what he's talking about, and hasn't tried it himself to know what he's talking about.

Secondly, while the new Runtime allows for touch to be a first class citizen beside keyboard and mouse, that in NO way makes Metro "just for touchscreens". Why do people say this? Because the preview only shipped with some touch games that interns designed? Do you really think every app in the store is going to be focused on tablets?

Thirdly, even if every app in the store turns out to be touch-oriented, guess what.. this makes sense. Windows 8 is a pathway to the future, and the truth is that tablets/convertibles for personal use and touchscreen all-in-ones for the home are going to absolutely dominate the future (NEAR future, it's already started). How many home consumers do you think are buying computers without touchscreens in a couple years when touchscreen ones come with standard price? Businesses will be slower on this but that doesn't matter.. Microsoft knows corporations are going to be on Windows 7 anyway, just like many are on XP now. Windows 7 will continue to exist beside Windows 8, and that's ok. Windows 8 is for the future.

But Metro is not simply "for touch", and people need to stop saying that. Big targets mean quick mouse clicks.

Believe it or not, Neowinian's are not the "average user". I think you'll find (and history will prove me right or wrong) that the "average user" will love Windows 8. Just look at all the demos they did at the various trade and consumer shows. The resounding opinion from most people was positive.

Also, I've said many times and I'll say again.... anybody who's written it off already without trying it, is an idiot who's opinion carries no weight. Trying the DP does not count. That was an incomplete shell of a product with almost zero content, designed to demonstrate the technology of Windows 8 to developers, NOT the interface.

Edited by Ryster, Feb 9 2012, 6:15pm :

smooth3006 said,
im honestly wondering how many will stray to osx once w8 releases?

I won't stray. I need Windows because I run ArcGIS and Civil 3D 2012. Until those programs come to OSX, I will stay on Windows. I just won't upgrade to Windows 8.

UndergroundWire said,

I won't stray. I need Windows because I run ArcGIS and Civil 3D 2012. Until those programs come to OSX, I will stay on Windows. I just won't upgrade to Windows 8.

i dual boot lion & w7 and i won't lie im using lion much more now. granted it's an osx86 install because i cannot afford a mac but im thinking i will be sticking to my current setup for quite some time to come.

the good part of this is that now many apps like rocketdock or start menu remplacements woll arise like if there is no tomorrow, customization at its best, because ms... you're doing it wrong imposing the metro interface.

Out of all the concerns I have read in these forums your opinions are pretty valid. I will admit I have not tried the preview. It takes time to use something to get use to it and learn the ins and outs. That is when we will have a feel for the OS and be able to decide what we like and don't like. I am excited to try Windows 8 but at the same time I hope that I am not disappointed.

i approve this topic, you guys gonna bash neobond and call him a troll too? he has been vocal in the past about disliking metro as well. i agree with everything that was said, w8 should of been for mobile & tablets ONLY!. the traditional desktop/laptop doesn't need it. i still think microsoft has taken two steps back from the beauty that w7 is.

smooth3006 said,
i approve this topic, you guys gonna bash neobond and call him a troll too? he has been vocal in the past about disliking metro as well. i agree with everything that was said, w8 should of been for mobile & tablets ONLY!. the traditional desktop/laptop doesn't need it. i still think microsoft has taken two steps back from the beauty that w7 is.

Trolling perhaps not, but he certainly posted this with the intent of causing a heated debate.

As it happens, Neobond's opinion is no more or less valid than anybody else's. That said, "anybody else" isn't in a position of influence by being able to post a whopping great big story based purely on personal opinion on the front page of Neowin.

People on here hated Win7 screenshots and said it looked like a vista service pack and will never survive. We saw how that turned out.

Tablets, are currently in use by the vast majority of trendy metrosexuals (iPads) and fancy business executives. While it serves their purpose well, I for one enjoy a monitor, real computer components, performance, a mouse, speakers, and well.. basically a computer. My EVO 3D does everything these over priced tablets do, just on a smaller screen. As phones become more advanced, this small gap between smartphones and tablets will be the first to bridge.

Possibly in 2-3 years.

As for the desktop PC (this doesn't include anything that Steve Jobs thought of, those don't actually count as computers) it's not going to be replaced by an airline food tray (ipad) or any other android tablet. It's simply not practical.

As long as it works like windows 7 i dont care if the UI is bright pink with techno music startup. I use an OS for functionality not cause it looks pretty or not.

I'm sorry... I havent been able to test Windows 8 just yet... so I dont know about the lack of a Start Menu now... But I feel as if it should have stayed. For me, its the easiest way to stay organized. I guess I will have to use this new version and see how accustomed I can get to using it...

Well, if you don't like it, enjoy running on good ol' slow Win7. Win8 is much faster.

It just takes getting used to. Once you've got it down, it just feels like it works and feels quite natural. People hate change and Win8 proves it. I will not miss the start button. See ya!

laserfloyd said,
Well, if you don't like it, enjoy running on good ol' slow Win7.

Slow? Sounds like crappy PC…

MFH said,

Slow? Sounds like crappy PC…

I don't think he actually meant that Windows 7 is slow, but rather that Windows 8 is faster and uses less resources

Oh dear.

all we're going to see here is a massive grid of applications on what used to be the Windows Desktop; and now the start orb has been removed in favour of some pop out that is obviously designed for finger pointing.

Good for touch devices, not so for traditional PCs.


Yes, because as we all know nobody will be running any apps and will stay at the start screen all the time looking at that "grid of applications" /sarcasm. And that fact that you see it as only a grid of applications kind of demonstrates the problem here. A lack of understanding.

Also since when have a touch interface and a keyboard/mouse interface been mutually exclusive? They aren't. They can improve one (touch) without making the other (kb/m) worse. Last time I checked those who are used to controlling windows with a mouse can still do so, its not like the tile will jump out of the way of your mouse pointer when you try to click it. A mouse pointer perfectly emulates touch anyway Similarly, those used to launching apps via the keyboard can again still do so. In fact there have been no changes in this regards. Win Key > Start typing app name > Press Enter. Saying it's "not good" for traditional PC's is just nonsense, pure and simple.

Then there's the raft of other improvements such as the inter-operation between apps, tight integration with core APIs like skydrive, etc. Plus the ability to continue running classic desktop apps if you so wish, even alongside Metro apps or on a separate screen.

All this anti-Windows 8 nonsense is really starting to get old now, especially given that NOBODY has tried anything yet but a shell of a product purely designed to demonstrate the underlying technology for developers.

Sorry, but this is just a typical response from a conservative power user. It's a big change, yes, but I'm going to have you get used to it, and you're going to have to get used to it. Not everything makes sense in the "traditional" way. You will get used to it and you won't see it as a burden after that.

I agree with one criticism, though: changing apps doesn't seem easy. They need something like tabs that slide out from the left.

Sandra Bo said,
So you "slightly" agree.

Lol. No. XD Switching apps is just as difficult with touch as it is with the mouse. Then again, it's probably not as bad as I'm imagining.

The traditional desktop in the traditional home is on it's way out. Power users will always want and need a traditional desktop, but the tipping point toward touch-screen all-in-ones for the "typical" user is fast approaching. As a transitional mechanism, Windows 8 is the next logical progression toward realizing this inevitability.

You may be a power user and you may not like or see the need for this transition. But, rest assured, you (and me) and in the minority when it comes to the consumer (non-business) installed Windows base.

Lest we not forget, this is the *CONSUMER* Preview we're seeing screenshots of, not the business (professional or enterprise) versions. You can bet that when it comes to the business and the enterprise, you will still have the option of your traditional desktop.

I'll be installing the tablet version on my tablet and the professional version on my desktop. And I will be happy to do both.

Windows 8 is something I have wanted to see for some time. So yes, I'm a PC with a cousin named Tablet and Windows 8 was my idea.

Now with Metro, the grid spans as many screens as you have: Happy hunting for that app in a year's time when your grid goes on forever! And moreso, on a laptop with a small screen without touch capability. Good luck using the Metro Start Panel unless you know what you're searching for.

What is this nonsense? For one, the start menu only appears on one screen, and is a scrollable list just like current start menu. Unlike the current start menu it's ordered and grouped exactly how YOU want it, not forced alphabetically, so you can find things easier.

And what's wrong with a laptop, small screen, no touch. Aren't the nice bigger icons better in this case, being a smaller screen? And there's the still existing search commands which work largely the same as Windows 7, just visually different.

But when it comes to traditional desktops with screens in excess of 21" and in many cases multiple displays, all we're going to see here is a massive grid of applications on what used to be the Windows Desktop; and now the start orb has been removed in favour of some pop out that is obviously designed for finger pointing.

Again, fundamental inaccuracy as it only spans the current screen by default. Also, how is a "pop out" that requires you put your mouse in the corner designed for finger pointing? It'd be ridiculously hard to point your finger there. In terms of raw usability, the pop out icon is no harder to hit the the start orb with a mouse, just arguably less instantly discoverable the first few days you use the OS.

I also haven't seen any evidence on how the desktop experience has been improved over Windows 7

Look and you shall find! A small selection of non-Metro improvements, of which there are many more.

- Improved multi-monitor support (separate task bars, stretching wallpapers, etc.)
- ISO mounting
- Improved Copy & Moving
- Windows Reset & Refresh
- Improved networking stack (faster connections)
- Greatly improved start up, shut down & wake up spends
- Base memory usage reduced by over 100MB
- Built in antivirus solution (Integrated MSE)
- Secure boot (attempts to prevents rootkits / malware from interfering with boot up)
- Windows To Go (Entire Windows environment on a USB drive)
- DirectAccess improvements that makes managing networks easier for admins
- Simplified setup and deployment in network environments
- Syncing of settings over the cloud of your settings to all your PC's
- Storage Spaces
- Greater CPU idle time by default (fine tuned services, better performance)

Now we appear to have stepped backward to a two dimensional design that allows you to scroll endlessly left and right if you have enough pinned on the Start Panel, really emulating the Windows 7 Phone.

We currently have a start menu that scrolls up and down endlessly, just like Windows Phone


As an aside, just because something is touch optimised, doesn't mean it's automatically been "undesigned" for mouse usage. Fitt's law calculations actually show using the Metro start tiles is easier than using the small start menu folders / buttons when using a mouse.

Edited by ~Johnny, Feb 9 2012, 4:19pm :

funny, not one of those features would make me pay 1€ for this OS, not to mention that most of these have already been available as free downloads…

MFH said,
funny, not one of those features would make me pay 1€ for this OS, not to mention that most of these have already been available as free downloads…

And what new feature did Windows 7 add over Vista that would have made you pay for that? A slightly new coat of paint? Jumplists? Grouping all your Windows into annoying thumbnails by default to make it harder for you to switch between them? Not being called Vista? Removing the classic start menu, Windows Mail & Photo Gallery? Quite what exactly are you expecting here to make it worth paying for?

For a lot of people, the performance gains in 8 alone will be worth it. Reduced RAM usage, optimised services, faster networking, faster bootup & shutdown, less CPU utilisation by the OS... they all make the core Windows experience "better", and they're all things everyone can appreciate. Along with the added security of a built in OS and boot protection.

~Johnny said,
And what new feature did Windows 7 add over Vista that would have made you pay for that? A slightly new coat of paint? Jumplists? Not being called Vista?

Going legal from my Vista-"trial", superbar, new hardware that wasn't supported by older OSes… and it was only 50€… Honestly, had I had a legit copy of Vista, I wouldn't have switched as there's not really that much into 7 anyways…

BTW: you make a big point out of 100MB…

MFH said
,
BTW: you make a big point out of 100MB…

What that 100MB + symbolises is some some pretty amazing internal optimisations by all regards - considering the base 100MB reduction also takes into the account the RAM added by having the 50MB + MSE engine as part of the OS, and have Metro start screen loaded, as well helping result in faster boot ups, and the optimisations of services results in less CPU gone.

So it's not just "100MB" saved, that's just one of notable end results of the work - it's "serious internal improvements that give notably performance gains." They've managed to load in more, do it faster, and but still let you have more resources for you own tasks. That's certainly something worth paying for, considering what they've achieved.

~Johnny said,

What that 100MB + symbolises is some some pretty amazing internal optimisations

Or it's an example of services that just don't run before they are used…

MFH said,
...new hardware that wasn't supported by older OSes...

"most of these have already been available as free downloads…"

Johnny, I think you are spot on with all your points, however most will stick to their negative view no matter what points you try to make because that is how some people are. Some are very resistant to change and think that Microsoft has it wrong. They are entitled to their opinion but it is clear that Microsoft has to change things up.
For the home the desktop PC is dying, more are moving to tablets and laptops.
The main area where you will still see more desktops is in business, and they are just switching to Win7 in many cases, I don't see them switching to Win8 for quite some time.
Having similar interfaces for the Phone and XBox can only help Microsoft as well since if you know how one works, you can learn the other fairly easily.

I'm eager to try out the CP and see if it really is a bold new direction for MS or a complete flop. I already use the search function to find programs in Win7 and have things like Weather readily available. The Metro UI will allow me to see even more updates very quickly before going to the browser (which most use now over any other program - at home).

TCLN Ryster said,

"most of these have already been available as free downloads…"


There is a point where you can't patch support for new hardware into an old OS. Want an example? DirectX 10,…

tuneslover said,
Definitely my idea...when I first saw Zune Software...I was like WOW...this is what I want as my Windows interface.

too bad the Immersive UI looks nothing like the Zune Desktop client then…

MFH said,

too bad the Immersive UI looks nothing like the Zune Desktop client then…

True, but they both use the Metro design language just in different ways. The Zune software is an indication of what Office 15 will look like.

neo158 said,
True, but they both use the Metro design language just in different ways. The Zune software is an indication of what Office 15 will look like.

Is Sinofsky still head of the Office group?

MFH said,

Is Sinofsky still head of the Office group?

I think so; he is there lurking around a big chair, waiting to make the final jump......... and get on Ballmer throat.......

Fritzly said,

I think so; he is there lurking around a big chair, waiting to make the final jump......... and get on Ballmer throat.......


Honestly - whatever I think about Metro - I still think that Sinofsky would be a waste as a CEO.

Windows 8 will totally be another Vista. Too much innovation and change in one release.
People will whinge and moan and complain.
Waiting until Windows 9 here

Wombatt said,
Windows 8 will totally be another Vista. Too much innovation and change in one release.
People will whinge and moan and complain.
Waiting until Windows 9 here

I didn't whinge about Vista - instead, I upgraded to it (and would crossgrade to the x64 flavor when I got compatible (CPU in other words) hardware).

I think some folks expected another long period with no changes (like between XP and Vista) - in other words, for Microsoft, it's snail-like usual self. Sorry - Microsoft weoke up and smelled the coffee and their scout spotted the approaching invasion force (Android and iOS). Tim Cook (Apple's current CEO) admits that iPad2 is cannibalizing sales of new Macs - and *he doesn't care*. Google is deliberately avoiding scaling up Android for form-factors like Ultrabooks and netbooks - meaning that both are more trying ot make commodity hardware. What can you do that isn't consuming on an iDevice or an Android tablet/slate? Where are the productivity applications?

That will be the advantage that Windows 8 (and including ARM) will have. Even bigger, the same UI(s) will be present - from ARM to traditional PCs - no learning curve. Except for ARM, the applications (and games) we are familiar with will mostly Just Plain Work - without rewriting. Note that there has not been a single complaint (except for Skype) about application breakage with the WDP. Not even from the detractors. There were more complaints about said breakage going from Vista to 7 - let alone XP to 7.

I won't be getting Windows 8 on a desktop or laptop but I may end up running it on an ARM tablet... we'll see. MS is bringing Windows "down" to the tablet and Google is brining Android "up" to the tablet and at present I'm not totally convinced by either but both show potential so I'm not sure who I'm going to eventually end up with.

I think most people will learn to use search like I do with Windows 7and the developer preview without going to the start screen. Move the mouse to the charms select search and type app name. Voila it is there.

Jojo Andoh said,
I think most people will learn to use search like I do with Windows 7and the developer preview without going to the start screen. Move the mouse to the charms select search and type app name. Voila it is there.

"Typing" to launch a program is GOING BACK a decade or three in regards to UI design. It's a programmer's solution to an end-user/consumer issue. And while that makes sense for those of us who are more technically oriented, there is no way in hell that this will become the de facto application launch methodology adopted by consumers.

It had better show up in the fugly square tiles if it's not an easy to read icon with text on their desktop.

I'm willing to bet Windows 8 will detect a touch screen during install and ask to use the metro UI. Otherwise it'll install with just the regular desktop UI we're used to; having to set registry entries or policy options for regular users would be ludicrous.

abysal said,
I'm willing to bet Windows 8 will detect a touch screen during install and ask to use the metro UI. Otherwise it'll install with just the regular desktop UI we're used to; having to set registry entries or policy options for regular users would be ludicrous.

Have you been living under a rock for the past year or so?

The Metro style UI, called Immersive, is the default whether you have a touchscreen or not.

neo158 said,

Have you been living under a rock for the past year or so?

The Metro style UI, called Immersive, is the default whether you have a touchscreen or not.

relax buddy. The RTM is not out yet, and my statement was speculative in case you didn't get that. However you could be right, in which case I'd think Windows 8 will be a failure.

neo158 said,

Have you been living under a rock for the past year or so?

The Metro style UI, called Immersive, is the default whether you have a touchscreen or not.

And what evidence do you have of that?

Immersive was the default with the Developer Preview because it was aimed squarely at developers - to get them to actually *write* apps for the UI - and without the UI, how can developers actually test them?

Practically all the screenies have come from tablets and slates - the very devices you would *expect* to be running *Immersive* by default. (Hence no chooser screenies.)

Basically, folks - the jury remains out on whether there's a UI chooser or not.

abysal said,
I'd think Windows 8 will be a failure.

I think otherwise. If you want a UI that looks and works exactly like Windows 7, then stay on Windows 7. It's not rocket science.

TCLN Ryster said,

I think otherwise. If you want a UI that looks and works exactly like Windows 7, then stay on Windows 7. It's not rocket science.
does anyone have any troll repleant?

[quote=abysal said,] I'm willing to bet Windows 8 will detect a touch screen during install and ask to use the metro UI. Otherwise it'll install with just the regular desktop UI we're used to; having to set registry entries or policy options for regular users would be ludicrous. [/quote]

Metro WILL be on the desktop regardless of touch or no touch.

[quote=PGHammer said,] And what evidence do you have of that? [/Quote]

Visit the Building Windows 8 Blog. Metro Start WILL be on the desktop!

Edited by Dot Matrix, Feb 10 2012, 12:31am :

We should have the opportunity to use Metro in full screen or window.
Then on a PC, Metro could open a window instead of jumping out of the desktop

That screen shot reminds me of the classic start menu when you clicked on "All Programs" and you just had rolls of programs listed.

I don't see why we need this on the desktop really. Microsoft always had Surface why couldn't they have convert that to tablets? Even Appl has two different OS. Now with Windows Kinect why do a touch OS at all?

Good article. I imagine that Microsoft see the tablet as the future with the success of the iPad and other Android-based devices. Bringing over a Metro-style interface creates unity with Windows Phone and Xbox, so an otherwise alien UI becomes less daunting as users realise they're familiar with the way it works and how to get around.

It looks like Microsoft's strategy is following Apple's a bit more here. Apple like to offer the computer as one whole package rather than pushing the software side separately. It makes the whole experience seem a lot more coherent and polished, but at the obvious expense of having to buy the two together.

Consumers like that. You can see it in sales figures. So by focusing on new hardware that's coming out and focusing on how they can make it work best on that, Microsoft are pushing shops to place the latest Windows tablets front and centre, as a whole complete package that's easy to pick up and get to grips with.

It makes sense. The consumer sees the new computer as being superior to their current one, but with the familiarity of the Windows Phone interface and the compatibility of previous versions of Windows. And by having the tablet interface included with the traditional system, users will be more inclined to try out a tablet in a shop that's like what they have at home but feels a lot better. I've tried using Windows 7 on a tablet and prefer the desktop version, but if Windows 8 on a tablet felt better than Windows 8 at home then I'd be more likely to buy a Windows 8 tablet, right?

Microsoft's big focus is software, but if tablets keep going the way they are then consumers will keep flocking to Android and iOS in droves rather than updating their old computer. It's going to be hard to convince those people to install Windows on their preconfigured devices, so Microsoft needs to hit back in the tablet sector as quickly as it can if it wants to keep a devoted set of users going forward into a new series of devices.

So anyway, I completely agree that Microsoft are putting all their eggs in one basket, but it looks like a pretty sweet basket to me.

Mike Brown said,
..with the familiarity of the Windows Phone interface.

Do you wish for Microsoft to sell only 7 Million licences of Windows 8 ? That is the number of people familiar with Windows Phone , and the number won't change much until Windows 8 will ship.

Mike Brown said,
with the familiarity of the Windows Phone interface

familiarity? Hardly anyone bought a Windows Phone device…

MFH said,

familiarity? Hardly anyone bought a Windows Phone device…

That's the point don't you think? By making the desktop OS look like the phone, more people will be attracted to the phones, because they will be more familiar. They are ensuring that Windows Phone doesn't fail.

Stokkolm said,

That's the point don't you think? By making the desktop OS look like the phone, more people will be attracted to the phones, because they will be more familiar. They are ensuring that Windows Phone doesn't fail.

Sure, that's why Apple had to do the same for iOS
You can make something look however you like, it won't change the perception of the consumers…

Stokkolm said,

That's the point don't you think? By making the desktop OS look like the phone, more people will be attracted to the phones, because they will be more familiar. They are ensuring that Windows Phone doesn't fail.

And the opposite is true too. It's a two way street you know.

Dot Matrix said,
"Now where did I leave that app?" <- you guys know this screen was changed, right? -___-

yeah i saw that
why use a new picture for the top picture and then a really old picture for the bottom one. its much more organised now.

Windows 8 was certainly not my idea. I've been against it since I first realised it was going to be an attempt at one operating system to cover all devices. Sadly as time has progressed I've not seen anything to sway me.

Intrinsica said,
Windows 8 was certainly not my idea. I've been against it since I first realised it was going to be an attempt at one operating system to cover all devices. Sadly as time has progressed I've not seen anything to sway me.

And you woudl also be wrong. This isn't about having the same OS on several devices, its about having a common UI on all devices.

And integration is what Microsoft is the best at. Oh wait, you wouldn't know hat would you. Have you noticed that even though Microsoft Office has several components, they all carry the same basic UI using the ribbon. Yet even though they are all design to do something unique, they share several common functions. This is the same thing they are going for with Windows.

Metro brings 3 types of computers in line to be the same at the least sommon denominator. The desktop PC and laptops will still hold a significant advantage over a tablet in some cases. Theer will be 2 types of tablets. ARM tablets where many will likely only have Metro and another with both Metro and Windows 8 for ARM. Then there is Windows 8 x86 for Intel based system which will be the supreme version over them all.

The reason why you dont see the need to move forward is likely because Windows 7 does all you need, or you simply don't have a clue.

I think you not haing a clue is a better discription.

As of this moment I plan on downloading and testing the CP on my laptop. I have no plans to upgrade any of my machines to Windows 8 until I have played with the actual SW myself. I can guarantee that I will be getting a windows 8 tablet!

I just can not see using this on my production machines at home or at my office.

I think if you read the Windows 8 blog, there's plenty of good stuff new on the desktop as well. And we know Metro can be disabled because there will be PCs whose requirements won't be met by Metro UI's specifications. That's an implied confirmation that Metro can be disabled for desktops.

One major step back is Windows 7/Vista's Previous Versions feature has been been removed and replaced by File History in Windows 8 which requires an external removable drive. Confirmed from this official document: http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=27416

I loved using the dev preview, and I can't wait to see the updated version of the Metro UI in the consumer preview.

I love the idea of apps in the background not using up any resources because rather than being loaded and staying there they'll be suspended and not using anything..and if they do need to continue pushing data (music apps, IM apps, whatever) they'll be able to do so.

I love the idea of everything being a full screen app when you're using it, because I never use my apps any other way.

I will undoubtedly have to load the desktop occasionally, but I would prefer not to.

I love the idea of Metro IE loading without Flash or other plugins, because 90% of the time I don't need them anyway.

And yes, I use a relatively high end gaming machine with no touch interface whatsoever.

randomevent said,
I love the idea of everything being a full screen app when you're using it, because I never use my apps any other way.

I'm guessing you never do more than one thing at a time then? Or have never had to move/share data between two or more running programs?

randomevent said,

I love the idea of apps in the background not using up any resources because rather than being loaded and staying there they'll be suspended and not using anything

I don't see how that's possible. An application has a state, and that includes structures/objects, thread/stack states, and many other things. All that uses system resources. For an application to be suspendable/wakeable it surely must use resources somewhere, whether they be disk, memory, or other.

simplezz said,

I don't see how that's possible. An application has a state, and that includes structures/objects, thread/stack states, and many other things. All that uses system resources. For an application to be suspendable/wakeable it surely must use resources somewhere, whether they be disk, memory, or other.

Well, it actually does still use RAM, but it is taken off the CPU scheduler so it doesn't use any other resources, and I'm sure it can be paged out if the need is there. I highly doubt it uses any video RAM in the suspended state. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/arc...iency-for-applications.aspx

Breakthrough said,

I'm guessing you never do more than one thing at a time then? Or have never had to move/share data between two or more running programs?


I'm sure alt tabbing will still work great.

And if all else fails there's still the desktop! It takes less than a second to open it. Easy as pie.

Edited by TheExperiment, Feb 10 2012, 3:19pm :

This whole article is one person's opinion. I wont bother explaining the faults with it, because that will come from others. But whilst there is all this talk about how things are changing, there is no discussion or mention of what is new, and good about Metro.

Brand new APIs, a modern development environment. A focus on good UI which has been lacking with Windows programs. An interface that can be a full screen start menu replacement for the traditionalists with no lack of functionality, or finally an interface that novices can feel comfortable with. An end to phone calls from grandparents or family asking for support.

Maybe you should read the whole article and not just a bit of it and you will see that it is saying there are new and good things about it also, but just not for desktop users

mdtaUK said,
Brand new APIs

Like about every two years… Microsoft releases new APIs like it's a competition on who can release most of them in the shortest timespan…

MFH said,

Like about every two years… Microsoft releases new APIs like it's a competition on who can release most of them in the shortest timespan…

You don't understand what WinRT is, do you?

Aethec said,

You don't understand what WinRT is, do you?

I do (actually I understand it all the way down to the hardware) - do you?
It's plain old COM, combined with .NET interfaces. In fact most of the functionality of WinRT are just wrappers around Win32, .NET and so on.

The fact still stands, Microsoft releases these "super new APIs" at the speed of light, and tells the developers "they are the next big thing!", just to drop the APIs soon after as they jump to the next hype…

MFH said,

Like about every two years… Microsoft releases new APIs like it's a competition on who can release most of them in the shortest timespan…

And you would be wrong. New API's are required to be rewriiten for the OS to work properly with todays hardware.

Get a clue.

One of the reasons Windows XP doesn't handle Core Processor as well as Vista and 7 is because those types didn't exist, so thus MS didn't have an API's for them.

What race are you talking about...or were you being sarcastic.

Good article. I agree about the great for touch devices not so great for your normal desktop. I guess we will just have to wait to see what happens on release. At least we have Win7 to use

"I also haven't seen any evidence on how the desktop experience has been improved over Windows 7, aside from the addition of a ribbon and, again, wonderful for touch input, the dragging of folders to a location in the address bar in Explorer."

There's plenty of stuff, such as not having to bother installing drivers to use USB 3.0, the new Task Manager, supporting drives greater than 2TB, THE ABILITY TO F***'IN PAUSE THE COPY OF FILES, etc.

MASTER260 said,
"I also haven't seen any evidence on how the desktop experience has been improved over Windows 7, aside from the addition of a ribbon and, again, wonderful for touch input, the dragging of folders to a location in the address bar in Explorer."

There's plenty of stuff, such as not having to bother installing drivers to use USB 3.0, the new Task Manager, supporting drives greater than 2TB, THE ABILITY TO F***'IN PAUSE THE COPY OF FILES, etc.

The new task bar for multi monitor set ups (one bar per screens, program icons follow that program's window across monitors)

Sraf said,

The new task bar for multi monitor set ups (one bar per screens, program icons follow that program's window across monitors)


& how can we forget the ability to log into your user account with your Windows Live ID, syncing your settings along the way? (&, although this is only in Metro, your SkyDrive files.) The point is, there's a lot of stuff.

Sraf said,

The new task bar for multi monitor set ups (one bar per screens, program icons follow that program's window across monitors)

Shorter boot times
Windows Live ID integration
Windows To Go
Windows Store
New easy restore(Refresh and Reset)

Sraf said,
The new task bar for multi monitor set ups (one bar per screens, program icons follow that program's window across monitors)

I believe that they've readded the Up button...

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm actually quite looking forward to that.

What about waiting for the Consumer Preview before making judgments based on the DP and "leaked" screenshots?
(not directly aimed at the author of this editorial, but rather at everyone who starts bashing Win8 without having tried a consumer build)

Aethec said,
What about waiting for the Consumer Preview before making judgments based on the DP and "leaked" screenshots?
(not directly aimed at the author of this editorial, but rather at everyone who starts bashing Win8 without having tried a consumer build)

Why not aim it at the author since that's exactly what he's done? This article is just a big meaningless whinge.

interesting BUT, honestly the start menu sucks. really it does. it is so useless that I end up using search most to the time and win8 seems to do a better job at searching.

So while it is cute to see shots like "where did I live my app" above...the fact of the matter is that the same applies to a crowded start menu with endless meaningless folder names that hide your app....good luck finding it.

the truth be told, the start menu needed a refresh. is this the best it can be? I dont' think so, but I don't think it is any worse (or better). Whatever the case, I'm sure the uproar will be such that we'll see the ulgy start menu rear its head back in via some setting for sure.

at the end of the day, all the trends point towards touch devices and tablets being the primary way of general computing for the masses, so it makes sense for msft to push towards that goal even if some people are going to stay behind.

after all, if they keep going the win7 way, they will soon be like Kodak which failed to embrace change to keep a few fanatics happy and lost the train to a relevant future.

Don't forget that it's not just a start menu though, it's a dashboard with live information from your apps. But come on, be truthful.... who in 2012 really goes trawling through their start menu looking for apps regularly? No, me either. I use WinKey > Type > Enter, or taskbar shortcuts, or pinned items. All of which are right there and fully available on the new Start Screen.

Agreed with TCLN. The only problem I have with the Start menu is with the search. I hope that not found items, which are found in other categories be displayed.

It was my idea, partially. I would rather, that we go away from Aero, and bring Metro to Desktop as well.
This way, they'll look consistent, and a part of the same operating system.

FMH said,
It was idea, partially. I would rather, that we go away from Aero, and bring Metro to Desktop as well.
This way, they'll look consistent, and a part of the same operating system.

my thoughts exactly

FMH said,
It was my idea, partially. I would rather, that we go away from Aero, and bring Metro to Desktop as well.
This way, they'll look consistent, and a part of the same operating system.

Very well said, thank you.

FMH said,
It was my idea, partially. I would rather, that we go away from Aero, and bring Metro to Desktop as well.
This way, they'll look consistent, and a part of the same operating system.

In that case you would be sacrificing usability for consistency. There are a lot of apps where Metro would not work, particularly with a keyboard and mouse.

FMH said,
It was my idea, partially. I would rather, that we go away from Aero, and bring Metro to Desktop as well.
This way, they'll look consistent, and a part of the same operating system.

Even better, combine 'em. GLASS METRO, B****ES!

what said,

In that case you would be sacrificing usability for consistency. There are a lot of apps where Metro would not work, particularly with a keyboard and mouse.

Metro is a design language, not a UI. You could create out of it a UI that's a lot better for desktops than the Windows 8 one we got is.

what said,

In that case you would be sacrificing usability for consistency. There are a lot of apps where Metro would not work, particularly with a keyboard and mouse.

Mouse and KB still function using Metro. Why is it so hard for all of you guys griping to imagine that alot of people are going to be using touch and mouse and KB (and probably voice cammands too) with win8.

blackjezuz said,

Mouse and KB still function using Metro. Why is it so hard for all of you guys griping to imagine that alot of people are going to be using touch and mouse and KB (and probably voice cammands too) with win8.


Because touch sucks to use for hours on end. It's inaccurate and requires more effort. Metro is all about big, clear buttons and swipe menus, which isn't going to work in something like Office.

what said,

Because touch sucks to use for hours on end. It's inaccurate and requires more effort. Metro is all about big, clear buttons and swipe menus, which isn't going to work in something like Office.

Yes which is why they've kept Aero as well as adding Metro. When I tried the developer preview, I must admit, I didn't much like the Metro UI, so guess what? I didn't use it.

M4x1mus said,

Yes which is why they've kept Aero as well as adding Metro. When I tried the developer preview, I must admit, I didn't much like the Metro UI, so guess what? I didn't use it.

I think you should re-read the original comment to see what my point is.

TechieXP said,
That is what they are doing...haven't you een keeping up? Obviously not!

On the contrary, I do and that is the reason I hope, for example, that W8 Windows Explorer and the other apps that use the Ribbon will use the same guidelines of Office 15 and not office 2007. It is called consistency.......

blackjezuz said,

Mouse and KB still function using Metro. Why is it so hard for all of you guys griping to imagine that alot of people are going to be using touch and mouse and KB (and probably voice cammands too) with win8.


and know how well voice software works at the moment /fail

Zappa859 said,
I really don't see any reason to leave Windows 7 for this.

XP Days 2.0!


There was nothing wrong with the days of XP since SP2 came out, last I checked.

MASTER260 said,

There was nothing wrong with the days of XP since SP2 came out, last I checked.

When did you check the last time? XP does a pretty bad job at utilizing modern hardware…

Zappa859 said,
I really don't see any reason to leave Windows 7 for this.

Me neither. Nothing in Windows 8 really stands out that makes me want to upgrade from 7.

MFH said,

When did you check the last time? XP does a pretty bad job at utilizing modern hardware…

That's a well known fallacy. I have XP running on an i7, 2 Radeon HD 6850's in cross fire, and it rocks. I have 7 and Arch Linux on the same machine, and I have to say 7 is definately the slowest of all three in boot times, app/game performance, and general use.

MFH said,

When did you check the last time? XP does a pretty bad job at utilizing modern hardware…

I meant during it's prime!

simplezz said,

That's a well known fallacy.

I experienced it, XP dead slow, 7 way faster on the same hardware. Furthermore XP slows down extremely fast, whereas 7 stays at it's speed…

MFH said,

I experienced it, XP dead slow, 7 way faster on the same hardware. Furthermore XP slows down extremely fast, whereas 7 stays at it's speed…

My experiences are that 7 is faster but we can't really compare everyone's experiences as most people have different hardware specs.

MASTER260 said,

There was nothing wrong with the days of XP since SP2 came out, last I checked.

I know, that is what I was implying.

MFH said,

When did you check the last time? XP does a pretty bad job at utilizing modern hardware…

Did you forget that the DRIVER tells the OPERATING SYSTEM how to use the hardware?

MASTER260 said,

There was nothing wrong with the days of XP since SP2 came out, last I checked.

XP-x64 is still supported till mid 2014...about the time when win9 comes out lol

Co-ords said,
It looks to terrible for words, who designed that junk?

A guy who doesn't use Windows, that's who.

And yes, it's beyond horrible.

Nope, I'm a 'Tablet' and Windows 8 is my idea, Windows 8 is a mongrel of an OS: a mobile touchscreen OS attached to a castrated desktop one. As such, it would please nobody apart from some fan boys. Microsoft has taken the step to totally neuter the desktop by removing the last vestiges of the "start" button (Just to make sure that some diehards have no way of incapacitating its "brilliant" Start Screen"). I have no doubts that it is going to fail.

yowanvista said,
Nope, I'm a 'Tablet' and Windows 8 is my idea, Windows 8 is a mongrel of an OS: a mobile touchscreen OS attached to a castrated desktop one. As such, it would please nobody apart from some fan boys. Microsoft has taken the step to totally neuter the desktop by removing the last vestiges of the "start" button (Just to make sure that some diehards have no way of incapacitating its "brilliant" Start Screen"). I have no doubts that it is going to fail.

Tablet = PC. It has been since they were first conceived & it should stay that way now. Also, I personally don't have anything against any of the companies that make operating systems, (I USED to hate OSX but at the same time loved Windows, Linux, Solaris, BSD, etc.) but I mostly like Windows 8 because I'm sick of having to use a UI that's been based on another one that was based on another one that was based on another one all the way down to Windows 95. & that's what Microsoft is trying to do, they are trying to recreate the Windows UI from the ground up just like they did in 1995. Only, this time they are making sure that this UI is across every single one of their products, so should you jump from you computer to your 360 to your phone, you won't have to learn anything new. Which is why people should shut up about having to learn new stuff in Windows 8, because, they've done it many times before, & Microsoft's making sure you'll never have to do it again.

MASTER260 said,

Only, this time they are making sure that this UI is across every single one of their products, so should you jump from you computer to your 360 to your phone, you won't have to learn anything new.

Too bad that there is no ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL-UI…

MFH said,

Too bad that there is no ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL-UI…

Before = no choice on UI. One, old & stale design.
Now = two choices. Metro & Standard.

Jesus. Complain more people.

MFH said,

Fixed it for you.

How many times will we have to repeat this?
METRO. IS. NOT. ENFORCED. YOU. CAN. DISABLE. IT.
There, that should be enough.

Aethec said,

How many times will we have to repeat this?
METRO. IS. NOT. ENFORCED. YOU. CAN. DISABLE. IT.
There, that should be enough.

Do you have a copy of the RTM build? If not I wonder what are your statements based upon?

Aethec said,

How many times will we have to repeat this?
METRO. IS. NOT. ENFORCED. YOU. CAN. DISABLE. IT.
There, that should be enough.

NO. YOU. CAN. NOT

Jesus christ where do you get this **** from? The GP setting is just to boot to the desktop instead of the start screen.

Aethec said,

How many times will we have to repeat this?
METRO. IS. NOT. ENFORCED. YOU. CAN. DISABLE. IT.
There, that should be enough.

So where do you have your RTM build? Would be nice to test it out, as others have suggested that we should make up our minds, before it hits RTM…

MASTER260 said,

Tablet = PC. It has been since they were first conceived & it should stay that way now. Also, I personally don't have anything against any of the companies that make operating systems, (I USED to hate OSX but at the same time loved Windows, Linux, Solaris, BSD, etc.) but I mostly like Windows 8 because I'm sick of having to use a UI that's been based on another one that was based on another one that was based on another one all the way down to Windows 95. & that's what Microsoft is trying to do, they are trying to recreate the Windows UI from the ground up just like they did in 1995. Only, this time they are making sure that this UI is across every single one of their products, so should you jump from you computer to your 360 to your phone, you won't have to learn anything new. Which is why people should shut up about having to learn new stuff in Windows 8, because, they've done it many times before, & Microsoft's making sure you'll never have to do it again.

http://i.imgur.com/aG4yJ.gif

TsarNikky said,

I respectfully disagree. Tablet is not equal to PC. Tablet is a smartphone with a larger touchscreen attached. Or, a smartphone on steroids. Hence, Windows-8 as a "one size OS to fit all" will not be a runaway success.

And I disagree with you on this matter.......I have used a tablet PC since 2002 and it is a "real" PC. In fact, since I bought my first one, Tablets have replaced Laptops here.

Fritzly said,
I have used a tablet PC since 2002 and it is a "real" PC. In fact, since I bought my first one, Tablets have replaced Laptops here.

Yep that's a Tablet PC. Too bad that the iPad started the Tablet Computer craze…

Fritzly said,

Do you have a copy of the RTM build? If not I wonder what are your statements based upon?


MS said resolutions lower than 1024x800 (IIRC) won't get Metro mode - only the Desktop. Thus, the desktop still exists, fully.
Also, it needs to exist because of corporations - too much of a breaking change.
Get real.

Fritzly said,
...

+Chris123NT,
...

MFH said,
...

The same can go the other way. Until it's made official, we have no idea whether it's going to be allowed. You might not officially be allowed to disable it and use other methods to but that doesn't mean it won't be allowed in the future.

I don't mind and actually like the new UI. I spend 99% of my time on the old desktop but I like the new start screen. It actually makes it easier to find what you're looking for, visually. For every 24 hours I'm on my desktop, I might spend about 30-60 seconds on the start screen while looking for something. I'm not everyone out there but that's just me.

I'm just saying that you can't say it won't be allowed and you also can't say that it will be allowed. They can go either way. With all the people complaining about it, they should at least give the option. I won't be using it though if they do. They might even allow it with the professional/enterprise editions (whatever their names will be) and not in the home editions.

Aethec said,

MS said resolutions lower than 1024x800 (IIRC) won't get Metro mode - only the Desktop. Thus, the desktop still exists, fully.
Also, it needs to exist because of corporations - too much of a breaking change.
Get real.

I am afraid you are the one who need to get real.......
From your statement; "METRO. IS. NOT. ENFORCED. YOU. CAN. DISABLE. IT."
This means that users will have the ability to enable and disable some functionalities, nothing to do with hardware limitations. Personally I hope that MS will include the ability to enable /disable Metro but....... I do not know for sure and I do not make unsubstantiated statements about what W8 RTM will offer
as you seems to do.

MASTER260 said,
I'm sick of having to use a UI that's been based on another one that was based on another one that was based on another one all the way down to Windows 95.

Start menu was perfect idea from the start. It improved until Windows XP and then Microsoft started to butcher it until one useful "search" was left. They are throwing good ideas away in exchange for "new". All Microsoft products with touch interface failed (Tablet PC's, Zune, WP7) when comparing to success of competitive products. HTC improved WM6 with nice touch and slide interface but Microsoft killed it with limited WP7. And there is a simple reason why these products fail - because Microsoft is cutting a lot of features against customer wishes. Result of such stupidity and arrogance: minuscule market share of these products. At the moment W8 looks good as Tablet but as Desktop it looks like fail because "touch" adds no value on most workstations.

Edited by EJocys, Feb 10 2012, 8:34am :

MASTER260 said,
Tablet = PC.

That's about as valid as me saying my cellphone = PC, or even my graphing calculator = PC. They're both Turing machines, so they can both run certain classes of math problems. See the problem?

A tablet is NOT a PC. You lack a mouse and a keyboard, which are currently the fastest possible ways of accomplishing tasks on any computing device. And if you don't believe me, try similar tasks on a tablet and a PC, and I guarantee the PC will win every single time. In-fact, I would like anyone to give me an example of ONE task that is quicker on a tablet. Oh wait...

Also, I'd love to see you develop an application on a tablet. It's certainly possible, but aside from the novelty of being able to say you can, trying to convince anyone that it's "better" will get you admitted to the looney bin quicker than you think.

Microsoft should continue to try to make power-users out of their consumers, and stop hindering the operating system to cater to those less knowledgeable about computers. It will benefit everyone in the end.

Breakthrough said,


A tablet is NOT a PC. You lack a mouse and a keyboard, which are currently the fastest possible ways of accomplishing tasks on any computing device. .

Not at all: my Toshiba M400 has a keyboard, I can use a mouse with it........ and I can handwrite. Now if you say that for certain tasks a desktop is better than a portable device, either a laptop or a tablet PC, I can agree with you but this is a different aspect.

Fritzly said,
I am afraid you are the one who need to get real.......
From your statement; "METRO. IS. NOT. ENFORCED. YOU. CAN. DISABLE. IT."
This means that users will have the ability to enable and disable some functionalities, nothing to do with hardware limitations. Personally I hope that MS will include the ability to enable /disable Metro but....... I do not know for sure and I do not make unsubstantiated statements about what W8 RTM will offer
as you seems to do.

If you think MS will break compatibility on such huge changes without allowing people to re-enable the old interface, or to "block" Metro via GPO, you're wrong.
Microsoft is not Apple - they care about enterprises.

Chris123NT said,

NO. YOU. CAN. NOT

Jesus christ where do you get this **** from? The GP setting is just to boot to the desktop instead of the start screen.

Stop being ignorant. The Consumer Preview likle only forces the Metro UI, because that is what Microsoft wants you to see right now.

On ALL desktops, the Metro UI can either be closed or ran side by side with the original UI. Engadget and Neowin have posted videos showing the guys switching back and forth. Where have you been.

Being stuck on stupid doesn't mean you have to continue to be, when the internet has a search engine for you to look up stuff.

Look here - http://www.windows8news.com/wi...allpapers/windows-8-videos/

Go to 17:00 and watch.
From what I have read, there likely will be SOME ASRM based tablets that could only have the Metro UI. This would be NO different from Android or iOS tablets that also have a single UI.

Windows 8 x86 will always have both and some ARM tablets will also have both.
You need to get out the basement and get a clue.

In teh age of information, theer is NO reason to be total animate in trying to argue.
The guy told u 3 times you can and you insist you can't when there are videos on even YouTube that show you are 100% wrong.

Go back to school and learn what the word "objective" means.

Aethec said,

If you think MS will break compatibility on such huge changes without allowing people to re-enable the old interface, or to "block" Metro via GPO, you're wrong.
Microsoft is not Apple - they care about enterprises.

"Thinking" has nothing to do with "Stating" that W8 RTM will have such and such feature........

MASTER260 said,

Tablet = PC. It has been since they were first conceived & it should stay that way now. Also, I personally don't have anything against any of the companies that make operating systems, (I USED to hate OSX but at the same time loved Windows, Linux, Solaris, BSD, etc.) but I mostly like Windows 8 because I'm sick of having to use a UI that's been based on another one that was based on another one that was based on another one all the way down to Windows 95. & that's what Microsoft is trying to do, they are trying to recreate the Windows UI from the ground up just like they did in 1995. Only, this time they are making sure that this UI is across every single one of their products, so should you jump from you computer to your 360 to your phone, you won't have to learn anything new. Which is why people should shut up about having to learn new stuff in Windows 8, because, they've done it many times before, & Microsoft's making sure you'll never have to do it again.

you think lol.....dream on!