Microsoft reveals DirectX 12 for PC, Xbox One and mobile

As Microsoft promised earlier this month, the company has revealed the first official details on DirectX 12, the next major update to its graphics API, during a session at the Game Developers Conference today in San Francisco.

According to the live blog of the event over at PC Perspective, DirectX 12 will be able to work across all of Microsoft's platforms, including Windows, Windows Phone and the Xbox One. Indeed, the company said that DirectX 12-based games will get a performance boost when they are made for Microsoft's latest game console.

As rumored, DirectX 12 will allow for developers to get lower level access to hardware and will spread the workload on the CPU and GPU so that their threads are better balanced and as a result increase performance.

Turn 10 Studios has already ported their Xbox One launch title Forza Motorsport 5 to DirectX 12, using a four man team that took four months to get the game running on an PC using NVIDIA graphics at 60 FPS; Xbox One will see a significant performance boost for games using DirectX 12 as well.

Intel, NVIDIA AMD and Qualcomm have all pledged their support for DirectX 12. Intel says the API will work with their fourth generation Core "Haswell" processors at launch. NVIDIA will also support DirectX 12 with its graphics chips based on their Fermi, Kepler, and Maxwell designs, as well as future products.

Microsoft says the first DirectX 12 games should be coming out by "holiday 2015", and the company claims that 50 percent of all new PC games at that time will be DX12 capable along with 100 percent of all new GPUs and 80 percent of all new gaming PCs. Microsoft declined to say if Windows 7 would support DirectX 12.

Update: Microsoft has posted up a new blog with some more technical DirectX 12 details along with a blog from NVIDIA. Microsoft has also set up a site where game developers can sign up to be considered for the DirectX 12 early access program.

Source: PC Perspective | Image via PC Perspective

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You guys should read some of the comments on the DX team's blog post. I love all the little kiddies stomping their feet and threatening to move to Linux if Microsoft doesn't do this or does do that. Go ahead and go! You will be missed.

I hope someone will take over at SharpDX and get that upgraded to DX12 next year. It would be great to use one binary on both desktop and phone platforms.

That is nice and all but I only have Dx11 capable hardware, not going to upgrade my GPU (again) just to get Dx12! not to mention hardly anyone even supports Dx11 as it is! So it's going to be an uphill battle to get consumers to update their hardware (and OS) and developers to make the effort to support it in the first place. That is my 2 cents anyway.

Nevermind what I said, I've been corrected! so makes more sense now :happy: I cannot edit/delete the post so just disregard it, thanks!

NVIDIA:

NVIDIA will support the DX12 API on all the DX11-class GPUs it has shipped; these belong to the Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell architectural families.

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

AMD:

AMD revealed that it will support DirectX® 12 on all AMD Radeon™ GPUs that feature the Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture.

http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtm...mp;ID=1910687&highlight

NVIDIA's Fermi architecture was introduced back in April 2010 with the GTX 400 series video cards. AMD's GCN architecture was introduced in January 2012 with the HD 7000 Series. I really hope AMD's older video cards like the HD 5000 and 6000 series video cards support DX12. AMD has always been ahead in supporting the latest version of DX11 and both the GTX 400 and HD 5K series support DX11.

Edited by Yusuf M., Mar 21 2014, 12:18am :

How does that work? traditionally new Dx version requires new hardware to run it, older hardware will support the new version but the new features require new hardware. Well that is how I understood it?

Xerxes said,
How does that work? traditionally new Dx version requires new hardware to run it, older hardware will support the new version but the new features require new hardware. Well that is how I understood it?
That won't be the case with DX12. It will support DX11 hardware so it's a software upgrade. All that's needed is a driver update and a compatible OS. It's not like previous versions of DirectX which needed new hardware. Even the jump from DX11 to DX11.1 (and DX10 to DX10.1) required new hardware. I think Microsoft finally smartened up and chose software improvements in order to speed up adoption of DX12. By the time it's released, at least half of the PCs out there will support it on a hardware level. The fact that the Xbox One will be updated to support DX12 will improve the adoption rate. More developers that support DX12 means more games that support it.

Yusuf M. said,
That won't be the case with DX12. It will support DX11 hardware so it's a software upgrade. All that's needed is a driver update and a compatible OS. It's not like previous versions of DirectX which needed new hardware. Even the jump from DX11 to DX11.1 (and DX10 to DX10.1) required new hardware. I think Microsoft finally smartened up and chose software improvements in order to speed up adoption of DX12. By the time it's released, at least half of the PCs out there will support it on a hardware level. The fact that the Xbox One will be updated to support DX12 will improve the adoption rate. More developers that support DX12 means more games that support it.

Cool, thanks for that (Y) Stupid question, when you say it supports Dx11, do you mean it supports baseline Dx11 or do you need to have at least a Dx11.1 card?

Xerxes said,

Cool, thanks for that (Y) Stupid question, when you say it supports Dx11, do you mean it supports baseline Dx11 or do you need to have at least a Dx11.1 card?
Yes. DX11, not DX11.1.

torrentthief said,
I wonder what versions of windows phone dx12 will support, just 8.1 or possibly 7.8 too?

Mainstream support for 7.8 ends in 6 months, so I wouldn't place a bet on it getting any new features…

Battlefield 4 for 11.1

... the specific feature of Direct X 11.1 that Battlefield 4 will take advantage of on Windows 8 involve “constant buffer offsets, dynamic buffers as SRVs”, which return a slightly better CPU performance.

11.2 is XBONE & Windows 8.1 only so too new for PC, and I'm not sure on X1. Probably won't be advertised given the nature of the biggest feature. Technical and great, but not really billboard or blurb material:

Designed to allow a game to use both system RAM and graphics RAM to store textures, Leblond claimed that tiled resources will enable DirectX 11.2 games to vastly improve the resolution of textures displayed in-game. By way of proof, Leblond showed off a demonstration that used a claimed 9GB of texture data - the majority of which was held in system RAM, rather than graphics RAM.

Edited by MorganX, Mar 20 2014, 7:18pm :

yea

since it is Kepler based

according to NVIDIA ....

NVIDIA will also support DirectX 12 with its graphics chips based on their Fermi, Kepler, and Maxwell designs, as well as future products

Ci7 said,
yea

since it is Kepler based

according to NVIDIA ....

That makes me happy. I want to squeeze as much as I can out of my 680's until I have to upgrade.

they are going to pull "run out of mainstream support" excuse for Windows 7

i get it DX12 what need new Hardware , since it would work with current DX11 GFX?

Ci7 said,
they are going to pull "run out of mainstream support" excuse for Windows 7

i get it DX12 what need new Hardware , since it would work with current DX11 GFX?

More like Windows 7's kernel doesn't have the ability to schedule manage the GPU threads. A lot of features were 'extended' in the Windows 8 kernel for more CPU/GPU scheduling/balancing.

I don't know why people just assume it some conspiracy, like they did with DX10 and XP. If the core OS doesn't have the technology to support the features, it would require updating the entire core of the OS, which at the end of the day would be THE SAME as upgrading Windows 7 users to Windows 8 to get it to run.

There is a possibility that MS might give up some DX12 features to allow it run on Windows 7, but that would destroy a lot of features that are essential to this upgrade.

At least this update is not requiring a new generation of hardware.

Mobius Enigma said,

More like Windows 7's kernel doesn't have the ability to schedule manage the GPU threads. A lot of features were 'extended' in the Windows 8 kernel for more CPU/GPU scheduling/balancing.

I don't know why people just assume it some conspiracy, like they did with DX10 and XP. If the core OS doesn't have the technology to support the features, it would require updating the entire core of the OS, which at the end of the day would be THE SAME as upgrading Windows 7 users to Windows 8 to get it to run.

There is a possibility that MS might give up some DX12 features to allow it run on Windows 7, but that would destroy a lot of features that are essential to this upgrade.

At least this update is not requiring a new generation of hardware.


Or they could just roll out a platform upgrade, just like they did for Vista.

yowanvista said,

Or they could just roll out a platform upgrade, just like they did for Vista.

Safest bet is to be on 8.1 or 9 by 2015 though.

Mobius Enigma said,

At least this update is not requiring a new generation of hardware.

This was reported from the DX12 presentation:

"We currently don't know what changes in Direct3D will be brought to the table, all we are seeing here is how they are changing the software stack to more efficiently use modern GPUs. This does not mean that all current DX11 hardware will fully support the DX12 specification when it comes to D3D, Direct Compute, etc."

Like i said earlier, while most current hardware will benefit from any performance improvements in DX12, theres no way new graphics features will be fully supported without new hardware. This is always the case whether it's DX, OpenGL/ES or anything else.

Error9 said,

This was reported from the DX12 presentation:

"We currently don't know what changes in Direct3D will be brought to the table, all we are seeing here is how they are changing the software stack to more efficiently use modern GPUs. This does not mean that all current DX11 hardware will fully support the DX12 specification when it comes to D3D, Direct Compute, etc."

Like i said earlier, while most current hardware will benefit from any performance improvements in DX12, theres no way new graphics features will be fully supported without new hardware. This is always the case whether it's DX, OpenGL/ES or anything else.

Right, but we don't know what those will be, it might be a few features only or it could be enough to justify getting a new GPU. Either way, being able to get the performance boost is worth while at this point, could be enough to make people hold off on a new card a bit longer till some new game comes out that takes full advantage of whatever new features DX12 adds. As always game developers are behind the hardware and software.

sinetheo said,
Sure it does. MS backported it back to Windows 7 for IE 10+. WDDm 1.1 supports threading just fine

While MS backported DX to Vista and 7, because they didn't update the WDDM for either you still don't get full support for DX on them like you do on the newer version of windows with the newer version of WDDM. So while they could still do DX12 for windows 7 I don't see them updating the WDDM past 1.1, so who knows what you'll get out of it? There will be performance gains sure but even with a newer graphics card just for it will you get all the support that you'd get otherwise? The WDDM version is key to this so that's what it depends on, and I just don't see them backporting the driver model as well. If it happens then we're talking about a DX12 on Windows 7 that's limited compared to it's, probably Windows 9 version with whatever update to WDDM that has.

George P said,

While MS backported DX to Vista and 7, because they didn't update the WDDM for either you still don't get full support for DX on them like you do on the newer version of windows with the newer version of WDDM. So while they could still do DX12 for windows 7 I don't see them updating the WDDM past 1.1, so who knows what you'll get out of it? There will be performance gains sure but even with a newer graphics card just for it will you get all the support that you'd get otherwise? The WDDM version is key to this so that's what it depends on, and I just don't see them backporting the driver model as well. If it happens then we're talking about a DX12 on Windows 7 that's limited compared to it's, probably Windows 9 version with whatever update to WDDM that has.

Well do not expect games to use the technology then. Windows 7 has too many users . MS really is in 1990s mode thinking people will hang out at CompUSA (remember them) past midnight and all switch for the sake of switching within 1 year etc.

Those days are done.

Even if game programmers wanted to update their bosses would force dx 11 for maximum profitability with targeting stuborn users.

Yes MS would need to do just this and they should have released directx 12 last year then before the cut off. Oh well.

Have 12.1 with some enchancements by Windows 9 only then. It just is poor business sense otherwise and yes dealing with legacy users is what the PC is now. Consider IBM mainframes? Today it is all old CICS and Cobol and maintaining software from when Reagan was in office. Nothing new is made on it anymore.

The new stuff is all on phones. So MS needs to adapt ala IBM.

Mobius Enigma said,

But they didn't for Vista.

That is incorrect. Microsoft DID have a platform update for Vista and a platform update for Windows 7. For Vista, the platform update brought many things, including Windows Ribbon and DX11. For Windows 7, the platform update brought DX11.1

Platform Update for Vista: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...ktop/ee663866(v=vs.85).aspx

Platform update for 7: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...ktop/jj863687(v=vs.85).aspx

Error9 said,

This was reported from the DX12 presentation:

"We currently don't know what changes in Direct3D will be brought to the table, all we are seeing here is how they are changing the software stack to more efficiently use modern GPUs. This does not mean that all current DX11 hardware will fully support the DX12 specification when it comes to D3D, Direct Compute, etc."

Like i said earlier, while most current hardware will benefit from any performance improvements in DX12, theres no way new graphics features will be fully supported without new hardware. This is always the case whether it's DX, OpenGL/ES or anything else.

I didn't mean to apply that there weren't going to be hardware specific advantages for DX12.

Unlike DX10, DX11, I wanted to illustrate that DX12, like earlier generations of DirectX will offer features/improvements that work and benefit existing hardware.

Nazmus Shakib Khandaker said,

That is incorrect. Microsoft DID have a platform update for Vista and a platform update for Windows 7. For Vista, the platform update brought many things, including Windows Ribbon and DX11. For Windows 7, the platform update brought DX11.1

Platform Update for Vista: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...ktop/ee663866(v=vs.85).aspx

Platform update for 7: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...ktop/jj863687(v=vs.85).aspx

I apologize for not clarifying further. I assumed I was responding to someone talking in more generic terms.

The 'Platform Updates' were upper layer API and framework updates. Which is divergent from the specific kernel functionality that did not change.

Even with the 'platform update', it DOES NOT change the kernel features of Vista or Windows 7.

Here let me use this excerpt to demonstrate:

From Microsoft Link
•The Windows 8 WDDM 1.2 driver model supports a new generation of hardware, exposed through D3D feature level 11.1. Windows 7 with the platform update supports only the WDDM 1.1 driver model and therefore, feature level 11.1 hardware support is not available (through the platform update).

The 'platform update' does provide some upper level software compensation, but it DOES NOT offer the new kernel or the new features of the kernel.

In this example, implementing something from D3D that depends on WDM 1.2 will either fail, not work properly, or use upper layer software compensation. The Windows 7 kernel doesn't have WDM 1.2 features, even with the update.

If Microsoft were to 'provide' the full functionality of DX10,11,11.2 on Vista/Windows 7, they would have to REPLACE the kernel and video subsystem.

Which would be insane work when it is far easier to just upgrade them fully to the new version of Windows.

Again, I apologize for being dismissive, and not addressing the actual 'Platform Update'.

If this adds graphics features, theres no way current Nivida or AMD GPU's will fully support this, or the X1. So i'm guessing this may not add any of that, and just has performance improvements and lower level access. Which is very disappointing, if true.

Nvidia's latest GPU's don't even support DX 11.1 or 11.2 fully, they just have partial support for some features, but not all. AMD's latest GPU's fully support DX11.2 though, as AMD made new hardware for it. Every iteration of DX and OpenGL that adds new graphics features needs new hardware spicifically made for it, but it's possbily to increase DX/OGL performance without new hardware, as with DX10.

BTW theres an error in the article: "Turn 10 Studios has already ported their Xbox One launch title Forza Motorsport 5 to DirectX 12, using a four man team that took four months "

MS said in the slide "a 4 man month effort" meaning it took 4 men a month to port.

Error9 said,
If this adds graphics features, theres no way current Nivida or AMD GPU's will fully support this, or the X1. So i'm guessing this may not add any of that, and just has performance improvements and lower level access. Which is very disappointing, if true.

Nvidia's latest GPU's don't even support DX 11.1 or 11.2 fully, they just have partial support for some features, but not all. AMD's latest GPU's fully support DX11.2 though, as AMD made new hardware for it. Every iteration of DX and OpenGL that adds new graphics features needs new hardware spicifically made for it, but it's possbily to increase DX/OGL performance without new hardware, as with DX10.

Don't know about the XB1 because I have a feeling they made that GPU with the idea of running DX12 on it in the future, right now it's on DX11.2 but even if it only gains some support for the new features the performance gains alone are worth it.

The key here is the performance really, being able to see jumps in existing hardware without needing to do anything to a game and just upgrade your GPU drivers is good, specially for those on older cards.

Error9 said,
If this adds graphics features, theres no way current Nivida or AMD GPU's will fully support this, or the X1. So i'm guessing this may not add any of that, and just has performance improvements and lower level access. Which is very disappointing, if true.

Nvidia's latest GPU's don't even support DX 11.1 or 11.2 fully, they just have partial support for some features, but not all. AMD's latest GPU's fully support DX11.2 though, as AMD made new hardware for it. Every iteration of DX and OpenGL that adds new graphics features needs new hardware spicifically made for it, but it's possbily to increase DX/OGL performance without new hardware, as with DX10.

NVIDIA says all of their DX11 class GPUs will be DX12 capable, with nothing more than a driver update. So it must not be adding any new HW features.

SharpGreen said,

NVIDIA says all of their DX11 class GPUs will be DX12 capable, with nothing more than a driver update. So it must not be adding any new HW features.

Or they could be using programmable areas of the gpu to run the new code possibly.

Surprised they aren't pushing to get some games on DX12 for this holiday. Guess they need time to finalize things and get it baked into Xbox One.

LightEco said,
Surprised they aren't pushing to get some games on DX12 for this holiday. Guess they need time to finalize things and get it baked into Xbox One.

I think it's a reasonable goal if you keep in mind that most games have a 2 year development schedule, remember that the games that come out every year like CoD have two development teams and not one so they flip flop, it's still a two year cycle.

So if they have started now with a early preview then by holiday 2015 that's just enough time to use a bit of it.

Still, even if the game doesn't come out that uses D3D12 specifically, just having the DX12 drivers should give you a performance boost from the reduction in API overhead, even if you don't use any of the v12 specific features in your game.

MorganX said,
Would be great to see Frostbite 4 with DX12 support.

I'm a lot more excited to see support in the Snowdrop engine. Tom Clancy's The Division is already the prettiest game I've ever seen. I can't imagine what they would do with DX12.

George P said,

remember that the games that come out every year like CoD have two development teams and not one so they flip flop, it's still a two year cycle.

CoD being a bad example as it's now three teams (Infinity Ward, Sledgehammer Games, Treyarch)…

MFH said,

CoD being a bad example as it's now three teams (Infinity Ward, Sledgehammer Games, Treyarch)…

Oh well, still, most are in that 2 year schedule.

It's good to see that a large number of existing GPUs will get it, no need to rush out and buy new hardware to support the performance gains of DX12. Though having said that, they're also going to have new rendering features, probably will require new hardware for a few things. Anyone with a DX11 card today though will get it, from the sounds of it even older DX10 cards could. NVidia said that they're support Geforce cards as far back as the 400s.

Indeed it's refreshing to see that this will be supported on my GTX 770. I wonder if Microsoft have had any sway in that decision to force it to be supported on older hardware. DX12 support would be slow to roll out if only the cutting edge graphics cards were supported, and I expect that Microsoft desperately want to put a quick stop to this whole "gaming on Linux" thing that seems to be up and coming.

Majesticmerc said,
Indeed it's refreshing to see that this will be supported on my GTX 770. I wonder if Microsoft have had any sway in that decision to force it to be supported on older hardware. DX12 support would be slow to roll out if only the cutting edge graphics cards were supported, and I expect that Microsoft desperately want to put a quick stop to this whole "gaming on Linux" thing that seems to be up and coming.

I agree, they want it to be used on as many GPUs as possible from day 1, there's no other way to do this than to support older ones as well. This also helps with the mobile reach, with DX12 they also have a answer to OpenGL ES which is big in the mobile space.

Arstechnica.com reported only ATI's released last year the HD 7000 will support it.

It means those who bought expensive shiny ATi 6900s in 2012 won't be able to use Windows 9 either since it will be based off it.

Windows 8 refused to run without 1024 x 768 on my ati 5750. So Windows 7 stayed

sinetheo said,
Arstechnica.com reported only ATI's released last year the HD 7000 will support it.

It means those who bought expensive shiny ATi 6900s in 2012 won't be able to use Windows 9 either since it will be based off it.

Windows 8 refused to run without 1024 x 768 on my ati 5750. So Windows 7 stayed

I think there's some differences here, I'm guessing what didn't run for you was the Windows 8 start screen or do you mean not even the desktop would run? Those are treated as two different things really, Windows by itself, well, the desktop window manager, the DWM, doesn't have high GPU requirements. Even if Windows 9 comes with DX12, the DWM, the thing that draws your apps (games are a superset of D3D so let's leave that out of this) will run with any video card that has at least DX10 support.

Like I said, games though, are different, the desktop and apps don't use all the fancy parts of the GPU a game does.

Because? DirectX is usualy not supported on platforms as old as Windows 7. For XP the story also ended after 9, for Vista after 10, for 7 after 11.1. It has always been like this and never gave issues.

Studio384 said,
Because? DirectX is usualy not supported on platforms as old as Windows 7. For XP the story also ended after 9, for Vista after 10, for 7 after 11.1. It has always been like this and never gave issues.

Exactly! People upgrade their computers.

All serious gamers are on Windows 8 already due to gaming performance improvements.

King Joffrey said,
If they not suport Windows 7 Microsoft can say bye to DX12!

If the Windows 7 kernel doesn't have the ability to support DX 11.2, why do you think they would try to mangle a kernel update for Windows 7 just to support DX12?

DirectX depends on features in the kernel that handles the WDM/WDDM. (Scheduling GPU threads, hUMA type features, etc.)

It is possible they have altered how DX12 works and can give up some of these lower level features to work on Windows 7, but it seems unlikely.

_Alexander said,

Exactly! People upgrade their computers.

All serious gamers are on Windows 8 already due to gaming performance improvements.

I am not sure that is true, but it probably should be =). Windows 8 handles resources WAY better and I love that feature! =)

I understand the initial bellyaching about Windows 8. But it's steadily improving. And if DX12 does what it promises and is Windows 8 only, it won't hurt. People will migrate and see Windows 8 Desktop Environment is a better Windows 7 than Windows 7. Gamers have already begun adoption x64 Windows 8 anyway.

King Joffrey said,
If they not suport Windows 7 Microsoft can say bye to DX12!

_Alexander said,

All serious gamers are on Windows 8 already due to gaming performance improvements.

Uhhh, no.

Raa said,

Uhhh, no.

Ok, just the ones that like the performance boost over Windows 7. ;)

PS If you look at the timeframe of DX12, Windows 9 will be the topic, so even the Windows 8 haters will be playing with a beta of Windows 9.

Studio384 said,
Because? DirectX is usualy not supported on platforms as old as Windows 7. For XP the story also ended after 9, for Vista after 10, for 7 after 11.1. It has always been like this and never gave issues.

Never gave issues?? Shoot just last year DirectX11 games finally came out?! The beancounters at the game companies want maximum target before investing millions. Since people love XP all soo much as evident in the marketshare the suits told the programmers to write for directX 9 only or get another job.

Same will be true of DX 12.

A few gamers will upgrade to Windows 9 and then a sigh will kick in as games will stay directX 11 only for the next 6 years until 2021. After all this is what happened with XP and Windows 7 has more die hards thanks thanks to modern.

_Alexander said,

Exactly! People upgrade their computers.

All serious gamers are on Windows 8 already due to gaming performance improvements.

I personally know a few young serious gamers running Windows 7 and competing. Not sure where your comment comes from.

JHBrown said,
I personally know a few young serious gamers running Windows 7 and competing. Not sure where your comment comes from.

Well they haven't upgraded in a long time then.

_Alexander said,

Well they haven't upgraded in a long time then.

Obviously they haven't changed their operating system. And probably have no reason to at this stage.

_Alexander said,

Well they haven't upgraded in a long time then.
Are you serious? They upgrade about every 6 months. Windows 7 works fine on new tech. My Haswell gaming rig that I built last summer also runs Windows 7. I don't understand your post I quoted.

_Alexander said,

Exactly! People upgrade their computers.

All serious gamers are on Windows 8 already due to gaming performance improvements.

Are you serious??? I'm a serious gamer and there isn't anything Windows 7 won't let me do at this point and there is no reason to upgrade to windows 8. You are doing exactly what Microsoft wants and that is wasting money on a version jump when you really should wait for the 2-3rd from what you run now. Windows 7 and my current 500 series graphics card will run anything I've got right now and run it just fine. Issue I see is the lack of DirectX updates at all, last one I remember seeing was from June 2010.

Windows 8 does provide a performance increase over Windows 7. I got in on the 35 dollar upgrade myself so I was glad to do it =). Now, when I use Windows 7 I keep right clicking the start menu and stuff...

sava700 said,

Are you serious??? I'm a serious gamer and there isn't anything Windows 7 won't let me do at this point and there is no reason to upgrade to windows 8. You are doing exactly what Microsoft wants and that is wasting money on a version jump when you really should wait for the 2-3rd from what you run now. Windows 7 and my current 500 series graphics card will run anything I've got right now and run it just fine. Issue I see is the lack of DirectX updates at all, last one I remember seeing was from June 2010.


Mentality like that is the prime reason why Windows XP is still popular.
And clearly you don't care about performance. My main reason for upgrading has always been performance.

And to address the other guy, I used to have Windows 7 and loved Windows XP 64 - I ran XP on 2008 Core 2 Duo machine instead of 7 because I saw it as inferior. Back then most games were DirectX 9 and ran better on XP than 7. These days it is DX10, DX11, and soon 12 - Windows 8 is efficient at that. Needless to say those that don't update suffer - you will not utilize your hardware efficiently using a legacy OS.

_Alexander said,

Mentality like that is the prime reason why Windows XP is still popular.
And clearly you don't care about performance. My main reason for upgrading has always been performance.

And to address the other guy, I used to have Windows 7 and loved Windows XP 64 - I ran XP on 2008 Core 2 Duo machine instead of 7 because I saw it as inferior. Back then most games were DirectX 9 and ran better on XP than 7. These days it is DX10, DX11, and soon 12 - Windows 8 is efficient at that. Needless to say those that don't update suffer - you will not utilize your hardware efficiently using a legacy OS.

I agree to a point, in general. But not with regards to Windows 7. Windows 8 Desktop Environment is not far enough ahead of Windows 7 to call 7 a legacy OS. And really, application support determines if it is legacy or not, as well as security support. If DX12 is Windows 8 only, that will begin to push 7 into legacy as there will surely be cutting edge games released that take advantage of it. Right now, there's nothing that doesn't run just as well on 7, though 8 has general performance enhancement, I find it more stable (though seven was also solid), and there are benefits to all the plumbing in an enterprise environment. There's also minuses and things that are less efficient. For now, the Modern UI is not a selling point on the desktop.

Those who were aware that you can't stop a juggernaut, bought as many licenses as they could at $14.99. Because MS screwed up Windows 8 RTM so bad, I think they should return the huge discount offer for upgraders from Windows 7, now that 8.1 is less of a turn off. I fully understand why many avoided 8 RTM at any price. MS should renew the offer.

Scabrat said,
Windows 8 does provide a performance increase over Windows 7. I got in on the 35 dollar upgrade myself so I was glad to do it =). Now, when I use Windows 7 I keep right clicking the start menu and stuff...

You realize a simple internet search will provide contradictory information. There are literally hundreds of performance reviews like this, and I encourage you and others to seek them out: http://www.hardcoreware.net/wi...vs-windows-8-performance/8/

Even if at times if 'tiny', Windows 8 (especially 8.1) clearly has raw CPU performance advantages, lower network latency advantages, and with WDM 1.3, GPU performance advantages.

JHBrown said,
Are you serious? They upgrade about every 6 months. Windows 7 works fine on new tech. My Haswell gaming rig that I built last summer also runs Windows 7. I don't understand your post I quoted.

I appreciate that you 'feel' Windows 7 is as fast or faster, but anecdotal notes, a simple search will contradict your assessment.

With regard to gamers, I'm sure some are misled into thinking Windows 7 is giving them advantage, but again the testing shows that this is just not true.

In online competitive gaming especially, Windows 8.1 provides more stable FPS, with more CPU headroom, and less networking overhead. This does result in lower latency and more consistency that is critical to time sensitive gameplay.

Go check out some of the more hardcore 3D and gaming sites that continue to do in depth testing on existing and newly released games.

Here is one review on BF4 specifically, which I have friends that play competitively:
http://www.hardocp.com/article...mance_review/5#.Uyzr3e-PKFh

(I'm sure you can find outliers, but try to notice they anomalous.)

sava700 said,

Are you serious??? I'm a serious gamer and there isn't anything Windows 7 won't let me do at this point and there is no reason to upgrade to windows 8.


You are not that serious then :)

Mobius Enigma said,

You realize a simple internet search will provide contradictory information. There are literally hundreds of performance reviews like this, and I encourage you and others to seek them out: http://www.hardcoreware.net/wi...vs-windows-8-performance/8/

Even if at times if 'tiny', Windows 8 (especially 8.1) clearly has raw CPU performance advantages, lower network latency advantages, and with WDM 1.3, GPU performance advantages.

Thats what I was saying =). Windows 8 performs better than Windows 7. Then I was saying that when I have to use Windows 7, I also keep right clicking the start menu because the shortcuts on Windows 8 are nice and easy for access to the menus I need. =)

mnl1121 said,
Probably. If they went through the trouble of doing it they will probably release it.

I don't think they would port over a hugely successful game on the xbox one to the pc, especially when the forza series has always been exclusive to the xbox hardware.
They probably just set aside 4 individuals with the task just to prove that porting over can be done with ease and time saved.

ir0nw0lf said,
Can't wait to hear about someone trying to twiddle it onto XP. :D

I remember when they started the project to get DX10 on XP, that went nowhere quick.

Also looks like the presenter is using Windows 8.1 Update 1 to demo DX 12, although the powerpoint arrangement is odd..why can you still see the taskbar?

Maybe a bug?

You can choose to show the taskbar during a presentation in Powerpoint. The option can be accessed from the presenter view.

bdsams said,
Also looks like the presenter is using Windows 8.1 Update 1 to demo DX 12, although the powerpoint arrangement is odd..why can you still see the taskbar?
if you've seen screenshots for 8.1u1 then you'd notice the task bar is permanently overlayed on top of all full screen apps. Modern or otherwise.

bdsams said,
Also looks like the presenter is using Windows 8.1 Update 1 to demo DX 12, although the powerpoint arrangement is odd..why can you still see the taskbar?

Because MSFT went full retard with the taskbar in this latest update. Why fix things when you can just annoy your users now? TASKBAR ALL THE THINGS!

Matthew S. said,
if you've seen screenshots for 8.1u1 then you'd notice the task bar is permanently overlayed on top of all full screen apps. Modern or otherwise.

No it's not.

Like he said, it's an option in the presenter view.

It's not sticky though. I haven't used the option, but I tried it, and the taskbar hides after any click.

Dot Matrix said,

Because MSFT went full retard with the taskbar in this latest update. Why fix things when you can just annoy your users now? TASKBAR ALL THE THINGS!

If you do not like the Taskbar popping up... disable the functionality; simple as that.
You are not the prior of the convent, others like what you don't like and enjoy it.
Choices are, for intelligent users, always the best option.

Matthew S. said,
if you've seen screenshots for 8.1u1 then you'd notice the task bar is permanently overlayed on top of all full screen apps. Modern or otherwise.

No it is not; you have the option to enable or disable it.

Dot Matrix said,

Because MSFT went full retard with the taskbar in this latest update. Why fix things when you can just annoy your users now? TASKBAR ALL THE THINGS!

The lack of a task bar (or some sort of status bar at least) in modern ui is my biggest grip against it... so I'm am really thankful they are working to make it available across the entire system.

And as others have already posted, it's an option...