Microsoft should "give up Windows Phone, go Android", says Robert Scoble

A decade ago, Robert Scoble spent three years at Microsoft as a technology evangelist for Windows. He left the company in 2006, and moved on to other projects, before joining Rackspace in 2009, where he is now its Startup Liaison Officer, but he still keeps a watchful eye over goings-on in the tech world. Some of our younger readers may remember him as "that guy wearing Google Glass in the shower". 

Neowin's Brad Sams spoke with Scoble back in 2012 to get his perspective on Windows 8 and Microsoft's broader strategy, as a keen industry observer. This week though, Scoble sat down for an interview published today by GeekWire, and he had a pretty clear message for Microsoft when it comes to its Windows Phone strategy. 

"That train has sailed," he said. "The real answer is: give up Windows Phone, go Android, and embrace and extend like you did with the internet. But they don't listen to me." 

His impressions of the company aren't exactly favourable these days: "The problem with Microsoft is that it's so committee-driven and slow. It's not a startup any more. It's a big-ass company with a lot of people. And let's be honest - you work at a big company because it's comfortable." He added that he doesn't know "if Satya will change that. He's trying. He did a hackathon today, that seems cool."

Windows Phone's biggest problem, as far as Scoble is concerned, is "that they have no apps, and there's no love for developers of apps... Windows Phone? I don't know you get developers excited by that. I don't know how you get influencers excited by that." 

He also said that San Francisco, not Seattle - close to where Microsoft is based - is "the center of the f***ing world", and that Microsoft isn't doing enough to capitalize on that. "If you don't win in San Francisco," he said, "you don't win in the tech industry."

"You got to hang out at a hackathon," he concluded. "Not the Seattle hackathons where there are Windows Phones because it's a Microsoft world. Go to some place else else in the world where there's a hackathon, and convince them to get a Windows Phone. Then I'll start saying different things about Microsoft."

The full interview is well worth a read over on GeekWire. Be sure to head back here after you read it, and let us know what you think of Scoble's comments below!

Source: GeekWire | upper image via +Scobleizer

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Ok am enjoying my windows phones since 2005 and I don't wana change it so I need to tell this man just shut up we are happy with it and we have all needed apps

Ok am enjoying my windows phone since 2005 and I don't wana change it so I need to tell this man just shut up we are happy with it and we have all needed apps

A classic example of confusing quantity with quality. Yes, the Android platform has a lot of apps, but that just means you have to sift through more chafe to get the proverbial wheat. And from a UX perspective, I'll take Windows Phone 8.1 over any Android phone I've used.

yeah... the grid of icons that apple and google are giving are a bit tired. been there probably since before the Lisa. the live tiles are genius. I seldom even have to enter my apps.

Here's an admission: I can't even consider a windows phone right now because they don't have the apps I NEED for work. My android phone is rooted and I use it as a laptop replacement in many different ways, it's liberating.

A week a go a friend let me check out her new windows phone for a few minutes, a low end one at that, it was quick, fluid and I found myself wanting the visuals and UI features pretty quick. I was impressed.

But, without apps, it's not for me. Most people don't need what I need though, if they could just get the top 100 apps for Android and Iphone, no excuses, all of em, they could push this forward in a big way.

Well, on some points he is wrong, others he is right.

WP is that slow dying breed. I almost would go as far as saying that when BB dies, WP will die with it.

I think the solution of unifying the OS to be able to run all apps would be perfect.

I find this all quite comical because you could replace Every instance of "Windows Phone" with "BlackBerry" and you would have nearly the same story. Most of the time I'm here and I see this Anti-BB sentiment it's simply MS and BB fighting for the scraps. Think of politics its usually a 2 party system unless you vote for the green or pirate party and what chance do either of them have? BB is having the same crisis as MS no one wants to develop for an ecosystem with sub 5% market share. How do you get more market share both BB and MS have the same idea target developing markets where the war hasn't been decided because in North America the voters (consumers) have spoken and you're left with BB and MS fighting for scraps.

If either BB or MS can gain some traction in these markets perhaps developers might be willing to port some code but if they can't make money why waste time for a few scraps. BB has made a Android runtime that runs nearly anything Android so well in fact it may become an issue to ever get anyone to write native code but at least their users have a wide variety of apps to run. We'll see how the next year plays out but MS and BB are nearly in the same position and those people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

berserko said,
I find this all quite comical because you could replace Every instance of "Windows Phone" with "BlackBerry" and you would have nearly the same story. Most of the time I'm here and I see this Anti-BB sentiment it's simply MS and BB fighting for the scraps. Think of politics its usually a 2 party system unless you vote for the green or pirate party and what chance do either of them have? BB is having the same crisis as MS no one wants to develop for an ecosystem with sub 5% market share. How do you get more market share both BB and MS have the same idea target developing markets where the war hasn't been decided because in North America the voters (consumers).

I think the problem is people like you over simplify the problem. It's much more complex than that. The argument could be made that it's not really an android v windows v bb v ios. This is Samsung v apple v bb v Microsoft previously Nokia.
HTC, Motorola e.t.c will tell you that using android does not guarantee success. Even the nexus phones don't sell as many but google can take the loses. Collectively these android companies sell more devices. Individually they are suffering badly except for your samsungs.
I believe this war boils down to being about brands not operating systems. Blackberries can now load android apps without side loading but I don't see their market share sky rocketing. We all know Microsoft has an image problem since the virus days of windows.
Microsoft can win with windows phone but they need to be patient and wait their opportunity. It might not come for another 5 years but when it does they need to be ready and take it. I dare say consumers are fickle.

this coming from a guy that worked at ms for 3 years and now works for a company that's failing big time, idiot is all he is.

btw lol at all of the MS loyalist denial in these comments...as an american I want to see MS be the leader they can but I'm under no illusion that they are fading fast

Sonne said,
btw lol at all of the MS loyalist denial in these comments...as an american I want to see MS be the leader they can but I'm under no illusion that they are fading fast

Yeah their net profit report proved that they are fading lol /s

Continue to live under the rock mate.

well i don't think anyone left is under the illusion that computing is shifting from desktop to mobility...so stay at <3% and continue being the uncool brand? MS has to do something....drop xbox, drop windows phone and do what they do best make software people want to use and let OEM's handle their end. Thats the only way MS has ever been successful and if they don't realize that soon they will keep fading into obscurity in todays paradigm

windows phone is doing just fine, its a lot harder to gain significant market share in today market then when ios or android were released, as long as they continue to add users they will do fine.

In my country Microsoft run, in 2013 major events for developers; both of them they were giving high end Lumias and Surfaces (one of the events required only 3 new apps made in WP8). Do you know how many of those Lumias and Surfaces they gave to developers?

none, because no one developed apps like they wanted.

Microsoft still can't captivate enough developers in to the ecosystem, leaving costumers that want to change from iOS and Android but still can't because all of their favourite apps still aren't in WP. So it's a lost cause? Perhaps, if Microsoft don't win more market share in the coming years.

Praetor said,
In my country Microsoft run, in 2013 major events for developers; both of them they were giving high end Lumias and Surfaces (one of the events required only 3 new apps made in WP8). Do you know how many of those Lumias and Surfaces they gave to developers?

none, because no one developed apps like they wanted.

Microsoft still can't captivate enough developers in to the ecosystem, leaving costumers that want to change from iOS and Android but still can't because all of their favourite apps still aren't in WP. So it's a lost cause? Perhaps, if Microsoft don't win more market share in the coming years.

Do you even know how much an application costs to develop? Of course developers won't develop entire applications for a simple phone or tablet as a salary. And it's definately not better if Microsoft refused to give out hardware just because the developers didn't meet all their requirements. Hackathons are supposed to be relaxed and fun - and the result might not be fully usuable, but still being a start of something. If Microsoft cannot understand that, then it's no wonder developers ignore the platform.

Blom said,

Do you even know how much an application costs to develop? Of course developers won't develop entire applications for a simple phone or tablet as a salary. And it's definately not better if Microsoft refused to give out hardware just because the developers didn't meet all their requirements. Hackathons are supposed to be relaxed and fun - and the result might not be fully usuable, but still being a start of something. If Microsoft cannot understand that, then it's no wonder developers ignore the platform.

i know that it costs time + money to develop any app, the problem is right that: even with some incentives it's really not enough to captivate developers into WP ecosystem.

It it wasn't because of apps i bet half of android user would convert to windows phone. There is no apps because there is no user and there is no users because there is no apps. Viscous cycle. All thanks to ballmer and his idiotic decisions specially about late entry to the market and windows phone 7.x big failure.

Android sucks. I would go insane if I had to use battery limited, slow, and insecure or an overpriced ishiny.

even if you use other platforms it is bad to just have 2. Look up ISPs in America and compare them elsewhere? That is because limited competition.

I'm no lover of Windows phone (I'll take a Nexus device any day, thanks) but the market needs competition so it doesn't stagnate.

I have a Lumia 1320 and a Samsung Galaxy MP3 and a Galaxy Tab.

Windows Phone is literally 100x more fun and reliable than Android, which I find to be invariably ###### when it comes to doing.. anything.

Wakers said,
I have a Lumia 1320 and a Samsung Galaxy MP3 and a Galaxy Tab.

Windows Phone is literally 100x more fun and reliable than Android, which I find to be invariably ###### when it comes to doing.. anything.

OSX is literally 100x more fun and reliable than Windows, which I find to be invariably ###### when it comes to doing.. anything.

Deja vu? :-/


Brony said,

OSX is literally 100x more fun and reliable than Windows, which I find to be invariably ###### when it comes to doing.. anything.

Deja vu? :-/


ummm....yeaaah....no.

Brony said,

OSX is literally 100x more fun and reliable than Windows, which I find to be invariably ###### when it comes to doing.. anything.

Deja vu? :-/

Well, that's your opinion but I don't think many people with actual knowledge will agree.

MSFT needs to become a label people know. For so many years, going back to Win95, Everyone knew the MSFT brand and label. Windows. Windows seems like a misnomer now because everything is touch icon based. it really isn't windows anymore unless you look at it from the desktop POV(point of view). other then that, Windows isn't really windows anymore because the new version 8-8.2 are so non windows based. however they do have apps than can run windowed but they are not real windows.. if that makes any sense. perhaps re-branding the OS is in order?

instead of MS windows how about MSFT touch? or MS surface-touch?

chrisj1968 said,
MSFT needs to become a label people know. For so many years, going back to Win95, Everyone knew the MSFT brand and label. Windows. Windows seems like a misnomer now because everything is touch icon based. it really isn't windows anymore unless you look at it from the desktop POV(point of view). other then that, Windows isn't really windows anymore because the new version 8-8.2 are so non windows based. however they do have apps than can run windowed but they are not real windows.. if that makes any sense. perhaps re-branding the OS is in order?

instead of MS windows how about MSFT touch? or MS surface-touch?

as much as I dig windows 8, msft needs to freaking perfect windows 9 for desktop users and make everyone super happy. also....please update the dang icons, Microsoft.

This guy is a blogger and tech evangelist. He has no life or career almost by definition and I'm not sure why I would care what he thinks. :/

paulheu said,
Troll, probably being endorsed by Google so needs to trash Windows Phone.

How's that?, he's clearly doing a disservice.

paulheu said,
Troll, probably being endorsed by Google so needs to trash Windows Phone.

This guy is the biggest troll on Google+ when it was first opened to the public, I had to block him.

I use to have that same attitude as a young Microsoft fan. Now at my age I would never write off a company based on that company's name. If Windows Phone were to blow my mind in the next year, I'd be switching over. Always keep an open mind when it comes to technology!

JHBrown said,
I use to have that same attitude as a young Microsoft fan. Now at my age I would never write off a company based on that company's name. If Windows Phone were to blow my mind in the next year, I'd be switching over. Always keep an open mind when it comes to technology!

What would it take to "blow your mind" though? Sounds like the main argument against Windows Phone these days is "apps" but even that is changing.

Enron said,

What would it take to "blow your mind" though? Sounds like the main argument against Windows Phone these days is "apps" but even that is changing.

Mainly a feature that would cause me to leave Android or iOS. Windows Phone is decent but it doesn't have anything that can make me say, "I need to have that phone now". I hope you understand Enron. Furthermore, I am not tied to just one company like the poster I replied to. I'm all for the latest geeky gadgets.

I write off google because I don't trust them. I don't trust their business model. Their whole business model is to collect information on you and sell it... usually for advertising but increasingly google seems to be a private sector branch of government intelligence programs.

What I trust about Microsoft is that I know how they get their money. every couple years I shell out hundreds of dollars for different Microsoft products. I see them challenging government requests for personal data. I won't use android. If I was forced to use an android phone i'd probably try to install Ubuntu phone on it rather than sticking with google.

seta-san said,
I write off google because I don't trust them. I don't trust their business model. Their whole business model is to collect information on you and sell it... usually for advertising but increasingly google seems to be a private sector branch of government intelligence programs.

What I trust about Microsoft is that I know how they get their money. every couple years I shell out hundreds of dollars for different Microsoft products. I see them challenging government requests for personal data. I won't use android. If I was forced to use an android phone i'd probably try to install Ubuntu phone on it rather than sticking with google.

Thanks for the clarification.

JHBrown said,
I use to have that same attitude as a young Microsoft fan. Now at my age I would never write off a company based on that company's name. If Windows Phone were to blow my mind in the next year, I'd be switching over. Always keep an open mind when it comes to technology!

And now you are an Apple fan, only companies changed.

simrat said,

And now you are an Apple fan, only companies changed.

Nope, I am a "technology" fan. I've been a Microsoft fan since the 80's, just joined the Google and Apple community in the past 10 years. I have some sort of electronic in this house from all three. I like them all.

JHBrown said,
Nope, I am a "technology" fan. I've been a Microsoft fan since the 80's, just joined the Google and Apple community in the past 10 years. I have some sort of electronic in this house from all three. I like them all.

And yet you only criticize MS products or anything MS, and praise apple in every apple news. Yeah technology fan.

A technology fan is neutral for every company.

simrat said,

And yet you only criticize MS products or anything MS, and praise apple in every apple news. Yeah technology fan.

A technology fan is neutral for every company.

Trust me, Apple gets criticized when I'm over at the MacRumors site. ;-) Furthermore, a technology fan criticizes when appropriate. There is no neutrality to any company. Being a true fan of anything means you are passionate about it. I criticize all of of my favorite sports teams. Why? Because I am a passionate fan. Anyway, your comments have nothing to do with the article. So let's leave this alone before a mod steps in. Cheers!

it's growing. they were much late to the smart phone party and that's going to cost them. to abandon the smart phone market is to basically abandon the future of technology. they can't do that. it's the same as going bankrupt.

derekaw said,
.... 4% ....

That will change rapidly with the re-release of Nokia-X running WP and the end of Symbian.

Afterall, Microsoft sold more handsets than Apple in the most recent quarter.

Personally, I have never, ever liked Scoble. I lump him in the same category as Dvorak. I place very little credence in anything they say. Having said that, however, the types of changes MS has been making lately to Windows Phone have essentially turned it into an Android-like device but with WP skin. I'm not pleased with what they've done to the platform.

He's got a point about MS being slow (nadella seems to be aiming to change that), but dropping WP and going android?! Since when an OS company goes for an OS from the competition?

JHBrown said,
The man makes some valid points. I'm not sure where the uproar is coming from. The truth hurts sometimes?

Err he is actually wrong, his points are true for MS 1-2 years ago. Right now we are looking at new MS. The guy is taking shower with Google glass FFS, do you expect rainbows from his mouth for MS?

This is the third of fourth time someone has brought up that his points would have been valid one to two years ago. Where's are we copying and pasting this estimate from? Some of his points would have been valid ten years ago.

benthebear said,
This is the third of fourth time someone has brought up that his points would have been valid one to two years ago. Where's are we copying and pasting this estimate from? Some of his points would have been valid ten years ago.
Firstly, I don't read through all the comments before posting so who cares what was stated before. Secondly, some of his points are still valid. It's just my humble opinion. No need to debate about it.

Why is he screaming in the shower with Google glass on? Why does his left cheek look like his white stuff on it? Why his hands hiding?


"That train has sailed," he said. "The real answer is: give up Windows Phone, go Android, and embrace and extend like you did with the internet. But they don't listen to me."

Yeah that Microsoft Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish strategy worked out well for the Internet didn't it... It took a decade and Firefox, Chrome, and Webkit to set things right. Thankfully, we now have a standards compliant browser ecosystem.

So, no, I think Microsoft should continue with WP and Windows 8 and leave our Android alone. It's working well as it is. We don't need no fragmenting 3X here.

simplezz said,
We don't need no fragmenting 3X here.

Maybe you've missed it but android is already fragmented to hell by phone manufacturers.

I thought Android was supposed to be open source so anyone could use it.. or does that not apply any more? Sounds like "I embrace open source..I just don't want them to be able to use it." Hardly open.

Max Norris said,
I thought Android was supposed to be open source so anyone could use it.. or does that not apply any more? Sounds like "I embrace open source..I just don't want them to be able to use it." Hardly open.

We saw what Microsoft did to internet standards with IE. Just saying that we don't want a repeat of history. That's all.

Of course it's open to all. That's what FOSS is about. And everyone knows that I support that. I don't support Microsoft's Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish strategy though:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ace,_extend,_and_extinguish

simplezz said,
We saw what Microsoft did to internet standards with IE. Just saying that we don't want a repeat of history. That's all.

Of course it's open to all. That's what FOSS is about. And everyone knows that I support that. I don't support Microsoft's Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish strategy though


Well considering it's open source, there's nothing to worry about then is there? ;) Besides, Google pretty much has a stranglehold on Android anyway.. don't have Google's store, people typically don't want it. They have to play nice.. worrying about the wrong people.

Trains don't sail. How does he expect anyone to take him seriously if he can't even get his analogies right?

Let's step back a couple years and I think Scoble has a point.
Windows Desktop
Windows 8 apps
Windows RT
Windows Phone
Xbox

Every single one of those had a different API and a different Store. Why would any developer target MS's system?

Fast forward to Threshold and it fixes this major flaw. I think MS is finally bringing a gun to the fight. Unless MS is considering giving up Windows... (not just Windows Phone) they cannot give up on phones.

You've got a point but got two thing wrong:

Desktop is a separate environment and has no store. (basically Win32 vs. WinRT)
Windows 8 and RT have the exact same API (WinRT) and store. They just run on different processor architectures.

eh hmm... Windows 8 and RT have a similar API not exact. On Windows 8, apps can mix Win32 APIs with WinRT API's to support more advanced programs like browsers (Metro versions of Chrome and Firefox). Those can't run in the metro version of RT because the API's don't exist and are only included for Windows 8. While an app can code around it, it adds more complexity to the mix which is why I separated them out.

Also, WinRT apps are expected to run on the "Desktop" in Windows Threshold. Now companies like Evernote can start coding to a single API and target all MS platforms / environments.

uberlaff said,
.......

This can all be blamed on the legacy of previous organizational structure.
Having all OS units under one team goes a long way to fixing the issue.

Sorry, but I cannot trust someone's analysis if they take a shower with their Google Glass. I just hope that isn't his fetish.

I know how to get developers excited for your platform:
STOP charging for your SDK. That's asinine.
Don't box our apps in. Android is free. Apple is a sandbox. WP8 is a freaking prison.
When you move onto this year's version of your hardware, don't make ALL of our old software incompatible with it. Also, don't make our new software incompatible with your old hardware.

Yeah, just move to Android. You've FUBAR'd this.

Benjamin Ritter said,
I know how to get developers excited for your platform:
STOP charging for your SDK. That's asinine.
Don't box our apps in. Android is free. Apple is a sandbox. WP8 is a freaking prison.
When you move onto this year's version of your hardware, don't make ALL of our old software incompatible with it. Also, don't make our new software incompatible with your old hardware.

Yeah, just move to Android. You've FUBAR'd this.

Err... you don't have to pay for the W8/WP8.1 SDK either, you only pay $20 if you want to put it on the Store. WP7 software is compatible with WP8/8.1 as well so I don't know what you're trying to say.

Actually it's iOS that's "a freaking prison" as Apple like to dictate what apps you're going to be able to buy on their App Store, WP8/8.1 has less restrictions, for example emulators are allowed on WP, but has common sense restrictions instead.

Edited by neo158, Jul 30 2014, 7:19pm :

The guy says windows phone has no apps....um, has he checked the windows phone store recently? I'd say the apps divide has closed significantly. Heck, even major games like modern combat 5 are releasing simultaneously on windows phone, ios, and android at the same time. and that's a very good sign indeed.
I say to Microsoft: DO NOT GIVE UP ON WINDOWS PHONE. KEEP AT IT AND IT'LL PAY OFF IN THE END.

The comments here are hilarious. "He's saying something I don't like about my precious, precious Microsoft! He's a big poopyhead!" Don't like the message? Kill the messenger.

This guy is a moron. who cares about the location as far as you have great products. the problem with windows phone was the late entry to the market and bad decisions specially about releasing 7.x series. and UI. If SFO is the center of tech world why the best OS is windows? and why chrome OS sucks so bad

When he says no apps, can he list them? Sure, most "local" apps are missing. But what national apps are missing, so much that he has to say "no apps."

I think the answer is to make Visual Studio a multiplatform mobile development IDE using c#. Buying Xamarin and make it free with Visual Studio would probably be a good idea. Specially free with Visual Studio Express.

LaP said,
I think the answer is to make Visual Studio a multiplatform mobile development IDE using c#. Buying Xamarin and make it free with Visual Studio would probably be a good idea. Specially free with Visual Studio Express.

We already have multiplatform development, it's FOSS, and it's free. Best to keep Xamarin and other Microsoft proprietary technologies where they belong - on Windows.

A lot of the dotNET development tools are open source and/or free. Best to let people make up their own minds and not get forced into one toolchain eh?

simplezz said,
...

Xamarin actually runs on OSX and linux.
You need an Apple computer and developer account in order to use Xamarin to compile your iOS apps.

Whoa -- someone who gets it... Even if MS didn't go Android they still need cauterize the bleeding wound that is Windows Phone. If I was still an MS shareholder, I'd be pretty irritated that have kept beating that dead horse after ~4 years. SMFH

runningnak3d said,
Whoa -- someone who gets it... Even if MS didn't go Android they still need cauterize the bleeding wound that is Windows Phone. If I was still an MS shareholder, I'd be pretty irritated that have kept beating that dead horse after ~4 years. SMFH

I AM a shareholder, and I've been extremely pleased with the stock performance the past 4 years.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?...;l=on&z=l&q=l&c=

runningnak3d said,
Whoa -- someone who gets it... Even if MS didn't go Android they still need cauterize the bleeding wound that is Windows Phone. If I was still an MS shareholder, I'd be pretty irritated that have kept beating that dead horse after ~4 years. SMFH
I'm a share holder, and I'm quite happy, in fact. Microsoft hasn't been this high for ages.

Yes, Microsoft, a company who has one of their main products be an ummm OPERATING SYSTEM should ditch said development for a competitor... makes TONS of sense.. no what MS needs to do is stop developing multiple OS's and make one, one OS that shares a code base, can be compiled onto multiple architectures (ARM, x86-64, IA64, etc) all using the same code base once again... and be modular in the sense that you can say this device only gets the Phone features, this OS gets desktop features, this OS gets server features...

This would eliminate all the crap we have no, which is Windows RT, Windows 8, Windows Server, Windows CE (yes it still exists), Windows Embedded, Windows Phone... it would just be Windows... that's it, you just pick what features you want for your deployment... Yes they are kind of going this way now, but it should of been like this years ago, teams should of all been merged, goals should of all be merged, etc....

Windows Embedded is a variant of Windows RT (or Windows Phone if you use Handheld), it's not a separate OS. And Windows CE is the same thing as Windows Embedded. Also, you missed Xbox OS. Then again, Windows RT is just an SKU of Windows, nothing more. Thus:

Windows, Windows Phone, Windows Server and Xbox OS. That's it.* Through still 3 to many.

* On the other hand, Windows Server, too, is just a slightly changed Windows.

Studio384 said,
.... And Windows CE is the same thing as Windows Embedded. .....

Actually.

Everything 8 (2012) runs the same NT Kernel albeit compiled for architecture. This includes embedded.

CE6.x is still around and used in many cable boxes the world over and other industrial devices. This is the only one that isn't NT.


So MS already has only one OS, but had different teams doing device specific extensions. With the re-org it's One group developing Windows for all platforms.

So what you and Neofuse are both saying has already happened.

It's one thing to have apps, but quality apps are lacking in general. Check out the reviews for airline and hotel apps on the Apple App Store - they're mostly 1.5-2 stars. It's obvious that even major brands are churning out junk apps just to check the box saying they have an app. I was surprised at the reviews on the Apple store for travel/hotel brand apps.

shastasheen said,
It's one thing to have apps, but quality apps are lacking in general. Check out the reviews for airline and hotel apps on the Apple App Store - they're mostly 1.5-2 stars. It's obvious that even major brands are churning out junk apps just to check the box saying they have an app. I was surprised at the reviews on the Apple store for travel/hotel brand apps.

most of those "Crapps" are just websites redone in a different format, that's why most of them suck....

TMYW said,
Says the dork wearing a device that embodies the very definition of "lost cause".

That was my first thought when I say the first photo in the article!!!

For me, app selection, while important, is a secondary consideration with my phone choice.

It's reliable, smooth performance that matters most, and Windows Phone delivers that phenomenally.

It's got the half-dozen apps I actually care to utilize on my phone rather than on a tablet, so I'm good.

But for me my phone is still primarily a communication device - voice calls, texts, Facebook messaging, Twitter, that sort of thing. I don't really do games or reading of other stuff on my phone - I have my tablet(s) for that. Although I do use my phone for music as well. But other than that, my phone is mostly a communication tool, not an entertainment device.

Yes LESS consumer options is always good for us /s

I find it puzzling how people can get offended that MS products even exist. It's not enough to not buy MS products some people want MS to disappear.

Why is it news to hear what a single ex Microsoft employee (from back in 2006) that wears google glass in the shower has to say about how Microsoft should run the product line.

Every smartphone I've had has been Android and I don't even think it would be a good idea for MS to "go Android". As a developer I think MS screwed up with Windows Phone 7.x and 8.x (breaking backward compatibility and having different APIs from WindowsRT "metro") but if they are indeed unifying Metro on Windows with the mobile API to make "universal" apps and stores then they are finally on the right track with Windows 9. Satya seems to be doing a great job so far in turning the ship around.

Asmodai said,
Every smartphone I've had has been Android and I don't even think it would be a good idea for MS to "go Android". As a developer I think MS screwed up with Windows Phone 7.x and 8.x (breaking backward compatibility and having different APIs from WindowsRT "metro") but if they are indeed unifying Metro on Windows with the mobile API to make "universal" apps and stores then they are finally on the right track with Windows 9. Satya seems to be doing a great job so far in turning the ship around.

Perhaps WP8 might have been a bit more successful if microsoft didn't screw over all the WP7 users by preventing them from upgrading the os to WP8, they might have quite a few more WP8 users today.

Order_66 said,

Perhaps WP8 might have been a bit more successful if microsoft didn't screw over all the WP7 users by preventing them from upgrading the os to WP8, they might have quite a few more WP8 users today.

It wasn't like MS blocked the option to upgrade, it was the nature of the change in OS architecture that led to older phones not being compatible.

If MS had not made the change they did with WP8, then we would be no closer to things like universal apps, merging Windows with WP, etc, etc. WP8 literally paved the way for the things that many of you are praising now.

It was a terrible situation and in a perfect world, WP8 would have been the first new MS mobile OS, not WP7, but there was a time crunch that led to the choices they made.

trooper11 said,
..... it was the nature of the change in OS architecture that led to older phones not being compatible.....

^This.

It was also the OEMs who balked at putting TPM chip in a device "For future use".

There was no legitimate reason in the world for shutting out WP7 users whatsoever.

Yes, if they would have made WP8 available to WP7 users I am sure they would have had to make many concessions but it all boiled down to arrogance and greed, older phones could have been compatible if MS would have allowed compatibility changes to the architecture however when arrogance and greed rule a company the users always get shut out in the cold.

Take it for what it is worth. He is right on some points. Like MS being slow to act and make a move.

And this is a "new" MS. Give Nutella a chance to show what he can do.

techbeck said,
Take it for what it is worth. He is right on some points. Like MS being slow to act and make a move.

And this is a "new" MS. Give Nutella a chance to show what he can do.

I agree. If he said this a year or two ago. It would have been right on. But this is a new Microsoft. Nadella is doing some exciting things so I am not counting Microsoft out just yet =).

He needed some press coverage. He did. Next.

His Google Glass probably prevents him to see that "the train stalled" mostly because of the Nokia acquisition and integration. It just restarted.

DConnell said,
Killjoy. :-)

meh, just a lot of hate towards a product. And the hate seems to be directed more towards company than the product itself. Others announced a patent for smart glasses as well. Where is the anger/paranoia there?

techbeck said,
Try it. Then text from jail/court room and let us know how it went...
Actualy, you might have a chance, just say that he intruded your privacy and you defended yourself against it.

Studio384 said,
Actualy, you might have a chance, just say that he intruded your privacy and you defended yourself against it.

Yea, try that and let me know how it goes.

techbeck said,

meh, just a lot of hate towards a product. And the hate seems to be directed more towards company than the product itself. Others announced a patent for smart glasses as well. Where is the anger/paranoia there?


I never really understood all of the hate for a product due to hate for a company.
I despise Microsoft, Apple and Google (in that order) but love the products I have from them.

techbeck said,

meh, just a lot of hate towards a product. And the hate seems to be directed more towards company than the product itself. Others announced a patent for smart glasses as well. Where is the anger/paranoia there?


a ton of people just don't want to be around people with glasses that can record them subtly without them knowing when they are recording.
I feel the same way as they do and it isn't wrong to feel that way.

I don't care if it's Microsoft Monocle, Google Glass, or Apple iSpectacles, I don't like these dumb paedophile voyeur enabler technologies. Yes, things have been around for years that do this, but these mass "consumerization of IT" garbage products are making it #kewl to own something like this.

Same thing with model airplanes vs drones... model airplanes have been around for ages, used by responsible hobbyists. But now that we cheap drones becoming available for every millennial and his facebook friends, you have idiots ruining it for everyone.

Avi Patel said,

a ton of people just don't want to be around people with glasses that can record them subtly without them knowing when they are recording.
I feel the same way as they do and it isn't wrong to feel that way.

But you're surrounded by people who can subtly record you now without you knowing, but it's just not strapped to their heads. Plus, I don't think there's anything that you're doing, or anything that even I'm doing, that's worth being recorded by some random stranger.

Enron said,

I don't care if it's Microsoft Monocle, Google Glass, or Apple iSpectacles, I don't like these dumb paedophile voyeur enabler technologies. Yes, things have been around for years that do this, but these mass "consumerization of IT" garbage products are making it #kewl to own something like this.

I take it that you don't own a smart phone...

Avi Patel said,

a ton of people just don't want to be around people with glasses that can record them subtly without them knowing when they are recording.
I feel the same way as they do and it isn't wrong to feel that way.

Bad news for ya. There are many devices now that can do what you are worried about and are more stealthy then Google Glass.

Edited by techbeck, Jul 30 2014, 8:43pm :

techbeck said,

Bad news for ya. There are many devices now that can do what you are worried about and are more stealthy then Google Glass.


care to list a few examples, then?
I assume smartphones aren't on your list as the user basically has to hold it up to record something and that isn't subtle one bit. What other devices are you thinking of? And I'm talking about things that the public can freely purchase, things that can record in a subtle manner without someone else knowing they're being recorded, things that have a quality greater or equal to google glass (so that everything can be made out clearly in the video), and things that can be found on a wide scale (used by the average consumer).

Edited by Avi Patel, Jul 30 2014, 8:07pm :

benthebear said,

But you're surrounded by people who can subtly record you now without you knowing, but it's just not strapped to their heads. Plus, I don't think there's anything that you're doing, or anything that even I'm doing, that's worth being recorded by some random stranger.

I take it that you don't own a smart phone...

"but it's just not strapped to their heads..."
well, that's my point. that's why more and more people despise google glass. it can be strapped to your head like an ordinary pair of glasses and can be used to record things without taking it off and holding it up. that sort of subtlety in recording is what's so annoying, imo.

There are glasses that look like real glasses that had a camera in them and can record video. There are pens that, buttons, pins, and a bunch more devices that can record video and are hard to tell, if not impossible, what they are just by looking at them. Some of the devices are not that expensive either. And lets not forget, that your are on video when you walk out the door in a lot of places. And a lot of time, that video is leaked or looked at by people who shouldnt. Smart Glasses I doubt will even be mainstream. Like bluetooth headsets. Some will have them, but not a ton or not everyone out there.

And yes, smartphones as well. There are apps/hacks out there where you can record video with the screen off. And all you need to do is prop your cell someplace facing a certain direction and non will be the wiser with the screen off.

techbeck said,
There are glasses that look like real glasses that had a camera in them and can record video. There are pens that, buttons, pins, and a bunch more devices that can record video and are hard to tell, if not impossible, what they are just by looking at them. Some of the devices are not that expensive either. And lets not forget, that your are on video when you walk out the door in a lot of places. And a lot of time, that video is leaked or looked at by people who shouldnt. Smart Glasses I doubt will even be mainstream. Like bluetooth headsets. Some will have them, but not a ton or not everyone out there.

And yes, smartphones as well. There are apps/hacks out there where you can record video with the screen off. And all you need to do is prop your cell someplace facing a certain direction and non will be the wiser with the screen off.

You pretty much just ignored the majority of the criteria I listed for you when you listed your examples. Way to go. :/

And still NO to smartphones as a legitimate alternative. Say you're in a bar and you happen to notice a block of a phone facing towards you. That's not subtle. As opposed to someone with what looks like an ordinary pair of glasses from afar.

Avi Patel said,

"but it's just not strapped to their heads..."
well, that's my point. that's why more and more people despise google glass. it can be strapped to your head like an ordinary pair of glasses and can be used to record things without taking it off and holding it up. that sort of subtlety in recording is what's so annoying, imo.

But the person has to be looking directly at you. Staring at you like a creeper and following your movement while you feel the ripeness of a watermelon, buy some tin foil, or any other mundane task that you do. To me, that's not subtle at all. The camera is out for all to see. There's no hiding it.

And smart phones are a legitimate alternative. People constantly have them out everywhere you go. They can record a video with their camera, which is better than the one found in Glass, without the user having to mean mug you, or they can nab the audio of your conversation with its sensitive microphone more subtly and less obvious than a user with a pair of bulky Google Glasses can.

benthebear said,

But the person has to be looking directly at you. Staring at you like a creeper and following your movement while you feel the ripeness of a watermelon, buy some tin foil, or any other mundane task that you do. To me, that's not subtle at all. The camera is out for all to see. There's no hiding it.

And smart phones are a legitimate alternative. People constantly have them out everywhere you go. They can record a video with their camera, which is better than the one found in Glass, without the user having to mean mug you, or they can nab the audio of your conversation with its sensitive microphone more subtly and less obvious than a user with a pair of bulky Google Glasses can.

Sorry, but you really are not getting the whole subtlety point I'm trying to make. But whatever. Believe how you see fit.
Good day.

Avi Patel said,

And still NO to smartphones as a legitimate alternative. Say you're in a bar and you happen to notice a block of a phone facing towards you. That's not subtle. As opposed to someone with what looks like an ordinary pair of glasses from afar.

A block of phones? Whose going to have that? If someone wants to record you. They will and they will be sneaky about our. Paranoia around this kind of tech is amusing but again, nothing that isn't already available. Items that are available to anyone and has quality good enough to clearly make out who the person is. This tech is coming like or not. Better get used to it or get a stay at home job and never leave the house again

It's all a matter of perception.

Google Glasses are "hated" because they can (somewhat) secretly record you. At least that's the perception. There is open debate about just how subtle the recording would be (red light, light of the "screen", etc).

Smart phones are not secret at all, since it's pretty obvious when someone is pointing one at you to record. Again, that's the perception. Obviously people could surreptitiously record with a phone.

Hidden camera devices aren't hated as much either, because they escape notice, and so people assume (rightly or wrongly) that they aren't being recorded secretly most of the time. Whether true or not, that's the perception. Can't be paranoid about something of which you're unaware.

Avi Patel said,

Sorry, but you really are not getting the whole subtlety point I'm trying to make. But whatever. Believe how you see fit.
Good day.

Unless you have a different definition for the word subtle, then I do get your point. I just don't feel it's a good one because, as I've already stated, the person with a pair of Google Glasses has to be looking at you. I don't see what's subtle about that when you compare them to the average smart phone. Something with a microphone and camera that is out, and in the hands of users way more than Glass is. I don't see members of Neowin wanting to line up to punch the face of a user with a smart phone out, and coincidentally pointed in their direction.

When I want to subtly record something with my cell phone I start recording then hold the phone to my eat like I am on the phone with the camera pointed at whatever I want to film. Doubt many people have ever noticed me doing so :p

He probably checks himself out with that conceded arrogance and glass in the shower. Gosh. He's so irrelevant.

Exactly, that's how stupid this guy is. Also Google going Windows would be something like it, except for the fact that MS makes more money out of Android than Google itself! IF Android itself sponsors WP, why give it up!

VHMP01 said,
....

Yes but Google derives value from the data mined, not the OS, so Google still make more at then end of the day off the google service stack.
Android is a means to that end.

I am not a huge Windows Phone fan after owning a couple of Lumia's but there is no way Microsoft should give up on WP. I would love to see an Android compatibility layer so running Android apps on WP is possible but going Android 100% haha no chance. Surprised Scoble of all people are saying such a thing, is is an ex-MS employee so he knows how important it is to Microsoft to own the platform.

Saying that what has he actually done since leaving MS? I used to read loads by him but suddenly he just vanished. Weird.

I literally can do everything faster on my almost 2 year old Windows Phone (that I just got two weeks ago cause my iPhone was stolen) than my roommate on her Galaxy S5. Android still lags, still glitches, and still just takes forever to do simple tasks. Also, her battery life is terrible and had to buy chargers for work and the car. I'm sorry, but I'll never own another android based phone. This Lumia 920 is an awesome temporary phone, and it's making me rethink whether to get the iPhone 6 when it comes out or just get a newer Lumia and stay Windows.

NastySasquatch said,
I sometimes can go almost 2 days without having to charge my 1520.

After 2 days of use I'll still have around 30% left on my 1520, love the battery life, too bad the apps are so terrible.

NastySasquatch said,
I sometimes can go almost 2 days without having to charge my 1520.

That's what happens when you hardly use it. Sorry, couldn't resist :p

I'm sure you could make Windows lag by installing it on a Pentium 4 processor with a 5400 RPM HDD, but that doesn't make Windows laggy by default.

deadonthefloor said,

I'm sure you could make stock Android lag by installing apps on a slow microSD card.

Under the right conditions, you can make most OS' lag. It doesn't mean that's the normal behaviour. I've heard of Lumia devices lagging, despite people on here claiming Windows Phone is smoother than butter. It was probably a bug or bad app, but the point is, it can happen to any device.

Generally, if you run stock Android these days (since Jelly Bean), the chances of experiencing UI frame rate inconsistencies is very low. Even on weaker hardware. The software is better, and hardware has improved.

If you run a custom skin (UI), then all bets are off. The same applies to desktop OS' as well. If you start piling layer upon layer, there will be some loss of performance, and possibly bugs and slowdowns. Stock is the baseline, and from my experience, it's just a smooth as iOS and Windows Phone generally.

Eh I can see where he is coming from but when MS doesn't control the ecosystem how exactly do they embrace, extend, and extinguish? They could control the flow of the market with Windows because they were the shop owner. With Android people buy into Google's services and frankly I couldn't see a situation where if I were to go with Android I'd keep using Microsoft's services over Google's. MS needs the platform to dictate. That doesn't mean they can't extend to other platforms and they are but at the same time they're in the situation they're in because they were stubborn and moved too slow. They're changing though and hopefully the keep the WP platform around even if it's a distant third because I like what it is and what they're doing with it.

pcweber111 said,
Eh I can see where he is coming from but when MS doesn't control the ecosystem how exactly do they embrace, extend, and extinguish? They could control the flow of the market with Windows because they were the shop owner. With Android people buy into Google's services and frankly I couldn't see a situation where if I were to go with Android I'd keep using Microsoft's services over Google's. MS needs the platform to dictate. That doesn't mean they can't extend to other platforms and they are but at the same time they're in the situation they're in because they were stubborn and moved too slow. They're changing though and hopefully the keep the WP platform around even if it's a distant third because I like what it is and what they're doing with it.

Microsoft Services on Android are slick and well refined. An awesome experience.

NastySasquatch said,

Microsoft Services on Android are slick and well refined. An awesome experience.

I don't doubt it but just from my experience I'd probably end up just using Google services. Like MS services on WP they're better integrated with the platform. Again it's why MS needs the platform to survive. They need to control that experience.

Even if he left years ago, I would have fired him anyway after the fact for being such an idiot. Ineligible for rehire.

Northgrove said,
Two posts. One saying he's irrelevant and the other calling him an idiot. No context. Seriously guys.

How is he relevant? He certainly isn't any more than you or me.

I'm no fan of the guy, but he has the who's who of the tech world on speed dial. That makes him a lot more relevant than you or I. I mean, where's the Neowin article on your thoughts about Windows Phone?

Exactly.

ians18 said,
Obviously he is now a Google fan, since he is known as the glasshole in the shower.
LOL glasshole. Filing that word in my vocabulary for later use.

AsherGZ said,
LOL glasshole. Filing that word in my vocabulary for later use.

The funny part is "glasshole" is well defined on urban dictionary as someone who constantly uses Google glass.

Would you take someone seriously when he's saying "Android is like Internet"? He's a complete retard, windows phone is amazing OS and Satya has done an amazing job when kill Nokia X and others to focus on windows phone.

Ostronyx said,
Would you take someone seriously when he's saying "Android is like Internet"? He's a complete retard, windows phone is amazing OS and Satya has done an amazing job when kill Nokia X and others to focus on windows phone.

That's a reference to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
Presumably meant with some irony. And as "theyarecomingforyou said, the old "don't listen to him because he's stupid" argument isn't really an argument at all.

Dislike the headline, dislike the google fanboyism... but the end of the article is where he makes a very good point:

"Go to some place else else in the world where there's a hackathon, and convince them to get a Windows Phone. "