Microsoft still unhappy Google won't allow full YouTube app for Windows Phone

Microsoft wants Windows Phone owners to have the best YouTube experience possible. Unfortunately, Microsoft claims that Google is keeping that from happening.

Microsoft developed the current YouTube app for Windows Phone on their own, although it is essentially just a link to the mobile YouTube website and lacks a number of features that the iOS and Android versions have, which were both created by Google.

Microsoft believes this is proof that Google is in violation of antitrust rules set up in the U.S. by the Federal Trade Commission and in Europe via the European Commission. In a blog post today, Microsoft's Vice President & Deputy General Counsel Dave Heiner states that the fact that Google does not offer access to its full YouTube API to Windows Phone is proof of Google's antitrust activities.

Heiner said that Microsoft made a point back in March 2011 to show that the YouTube app currently available for Windows Phone is basically a web browser-based version, compared to the extensive features such as search for video categories, finding favorites, access ratings, and more in the iOS and Android ports. He added:

Microsoft has continued to engage with YouTube personnel over the past two years to remedy this problem for consumers. As you might expect, it appears that YouTube itself would like all customers – on Windows Phone as on any other device – to have a great YouTube experience. But just last month we learned from YouTube that senior executives at Google told them not to enable a first-class YouTube experience on Windows Phones.

Heiner closed the blog post by saying that Microsoft hopes Google decides to be more open and conform to antitrust rules, adding, "If not, then 2013 hopefully will be the year when antitrust enforcers display the resolve that Google continues to lack."

Source: Microsoft | Image via Microsoft

Report a problem with article
Previous Story

Windows Media Center users in the UK experiencing EPG outage

Next Story

1.76 billion apps downloaded for iOS/Android the week of Christmas

123 Comments

Commenting is disabled on this article.

Just read this on Softpedia... so true... :

"Softpedia said"


Likewise, Microsoft, while complaining about Google not building a native YouTube application, won't allow third-party browsers on Windows Phone or the tablet version of Windows 8. The upside of this is that Microsoft's market share in the mobile space is so small, it doesn't really matter what it does.


http://news.softpedia.com/news...ecame-Obsolete-318265.shtml

I've never found youtube apps useful, always directly used browser on my galaxy tab. (although I don't use much my tablet these days). So I think the issue is moot, and Microsoft just trying to give bad publicity to Google.

Given the fact that Microsoft are trying to sue money out of Android manufacturers because WP is tanking, I say hard cheese. Sometimes you reap what you sew.

the googlopoly is only making it easier for the trust busters to bust them. well done google and I hope they keep it up. maybe we'll see huge action against the googlopoly at last. and what is bad for the googlopoly is a victory for the internet and the free market.

I don't really miss Google apps on my WP. I would like to see Chrome (as I'm also using that beside IE10 on my PC) but I've heard it isn't all that good on Android either. I dont really use other Google services but this does seem like a d*ck move by Google. They're using their marketpower to kill a small competitor, which is the kind of thing Google used to hate. All that 'Don't be evil' BS...

If the EU wants Microsoft to open up the browser market then they certaintly wouldnt approve of Google's behaviour. But then again, they also aren't forcing anything upon Apple yet they are dominant in the Tablet market. So perhaps someone just doesnt like MS in the EU. I do know the representatives from my country all have iPads (they like showing them off on national television).

Are they supposed to develop apps for every obscure OS on the planet? Hardly anyone uses Windows Phone so I don't see why this is a big deal...Blackberry doesn't have an official youtube app either and they have more than two times the user base

Sonne said,
Hardly anyone uses Windows Phone so I don't see why this is a big deal...
Because one of the top reasons why people use a smartphone is because they know that they'll be able to get the most out of it in terms of app support. And the more popular apps running on the OS, the better.

I think Google just want to make the Youtube app themselves for all OS (like how they did for iOS and not wanting to let Apple to make anymore) but they are just too damn lazy to make for Windows Phone for the meantime.

I'll say let Google give Microsoft the YouTube APIs but let Microsoft give Google Xbox live APIs
, Office, Active Synch, exFat,, etc...

Never-mind Microsoft uses those to expand their system who knew!!!

Then they are not afraid of iOS who has a much bigger market share than Microsoft's since they provide them with a OFFICIAL Youtube app?

tanjiajun_34 said,
Then they are not afraid of iOS who has a much bigger market share than Microsoft's since they provide them with a OFFICIAL Youtube app?

It's because Apple doesn't compete with Google. Apple doesn't have search, they don't do advertising, etc.

That wouldn't solve the issue of Google blocking access to the metadata / APIs from 3rd party apps, and they would need to fix the app regularly (just like the MetroTube devs do) and would likely be violating the terms of use of the YouTube service to do so as well - something a small indie dev can usually get away with for awhile, but a large company like Microsoft doing the same thing, especially officially, probably would not.

Microsoft didn't want its users to get Scroogled so Google is helping Microsoft by keeping Microsoft clean. At least that is some of the opinion I've read thus far. Gmail is inferior to Outlook.com, Google Voice is inferior to Skype, Google Docs is inferior to Office 360.

It's time Google gets handcuffed like Microsoft got handcuffed in the 1990's. Heck a breakup of the company would be the best option for consumers at this point.

TechJunkie81 said,
It's time Google gets handcuffed like Microsoft got handcuffed in the 1990's. Heck a breakup of the company would be the best option for consumers at this point.

Google is an information aggregate company, they essentially provide NO PRODUCTS or TECHNOLOGY. They should just be dissolved as they are a privacy and security liability for all users.

Microsoft probably doesn't have a case in the US, but this is the sort of thing I could see the EU agreeing with. Also, we don't know whether Google and Apple signed some fee-based agreement for the iOS app or not. If that's the case, MS would still have to cough up a check if they wanted to use the full API (there are other APIs that Google offers for a price too).

Salutary7 said,
Microsoft probably doesn't have a case in the US, but this is the sort of thing I could see the EU agreeing with. Also, we don't know whether Google and Apple signed some fee-based agreement for the iOS app or not. If that's the case, MS would still have to cough up a check if they wanted to use the full API (there are other APIs that Google offers for a price too).

No matter how much you pay, you do not get the same access to their own API as Google gets themselves.
And that's where the issue lays.

I always thought that the goal of a company like Google or Microsoft would be to get their services running on AS MANY devices as possible, regardless of it's platform. Yes, iOS is the top competitor but Windows Phone is slowly getting up there too and one the big reasons why people use the OS they use is because of application support. The more apps that run on Windows Phone, the more people will use it.

Google's starting to do what Apple did in the 90's, and is that forgetting who they were and what their goals are. They're still innovating, but it's not where it could be. I know if I were them, I'd be making sure that things like YouTube would be coded on as many platforms to ensure that I can get as many people using the services.

No, this issue only affects like 1% of the world's mobile users who use wp8. The rest don't care. Besides, i doubt there will be native youtube, google maps, gmail app for BB10, Jolla, Ubuntu Mobile or Tizen operating systems. Where's the outcry in that? When there is significant demand for google's apps, then google will invest in it. Why do you think Microsoft had to beg and pay many third party developers to make or port apps for wp8. It's quite sad!

szo said,
No, this issue only affects like 1% of the world's mobile users who use wp8. The rest don't care. Besides, i doubt there will be native youtube, google maps, gmail app for BB10, Jolla, Ubuntu Mobile or Tizen operating systems. Where's the outcry in that? When there is significant demand for google's apps, then google will invest in it. Why do you think Microsoft had to beg and pay many third party developers to make or port apps for wp8. It's quite sad!

No it extends further than this, as Microsoft cannot implement native hub/sharing integration to Google services like YouTube.

This also carries over and affects Windows 8 unless Google steps up and provides the functionality in a dedicated App.

Maybe Microsoft should just restrict 'search' API to ONLY Google, so that Google Search stops work on Windows 8, and why stop there, break Chrome on all versions of Windows. Would you still agree Microsoft can do what they want with Windows, and it only affects the idiots that are stupid enough to use Google crap?

Google can do as they wish, MS is just bitching because they have low low market share, which all in all means they are irrelevant tollhe market. MS can go BING themselves. And lol to all those saying Google products are cr#p or whatever, jeez get real, go use hotmail and bing, wow!!! not/

- Kaboose - said,
Google can do as they wish, MS is just bitching because they have low low market share, which all in all means they are irrelevant tollhe market. MS can go BING themselves. And lol to all those saying Google products are cr#p or whatever, jeez get real, go use hotmail and bing, wow!!! not/

I know this may be hard for you but some times it pays to read the article, not just the title.

Why do you think they have low market share? Is it access to apps that people want and use, just like the suite of Google mobile apps that Google is turning off? I understand you feel that somehow Android or iOS is "better" than the Windows platform, but that's a marketing and personal decision. Using your monopoly in places like mail, mobile apps, and video streaming and search to harm competition in another unrelated market (mobile devices) is in fact antitrust behavior, and is illegal. If Microsoft's phone platform succeeds or fails on it's own merit, so be it, that's the market. However, if it fails because a direct competitor is using it's unrelated dominant (or even monopoly) position with it's products or services to provide a leg up to some platforms (including their own) but not to others in that competing market, then that's actually illegal. Microsoft paid for this with IE on Windows during the "browser wars" with Netscape, and Google is doing the same sort of thing with it's apps, mail, and youtube in the mobile space. If Google doesn't want to provide an app, that would be OK with Microsoft according to the article - they just want access to the same thing Apple and Google have access to, and if they have to build it themselves they will. Google has said "no" to this request, thus making it also like Microsoft's private APIs that they provided only to themselves and their products, causing competitive harm to other products that competed and ran on Windows. Again, illegal in the strictest terms.

I don't know if this will see the inside of a courtroom or if it will be litigated in the court of public opinion only, but it certainly is an awful lot like Microsoft's behavior in the 90s, which got them into a lot of hot water, financial penalties, and lost brand goodwill. I don't know if Google will suffer the same fate, but if they keep it up, they just might.

I'd love to, but Google breaks the APIs regularly to keep 3rd parties from writing apps or using the service without serving the ads for any length of time, and the desktop (or even mobile) website on small phone screens leaves a lot to be desired compared to WP apps like MetroTube, or the Android or iOS YouTube apps made by Google.

Edited by cluberti, Jan 3 2013, 1:25am :

You are so smart. But uh since you are the genius here, how would they do such an awesome idea like that. Tell me, I really would like to see this brilliance in action.

But wouldn't that make them babies picking on Google? I mean why not start blocking torrent sites and underage sex sites and drug sites and violence? What do I know? Your brilliance will have a solution to the speed bumps I mentioned.

vcfan said,
how about Microsoft blocks youtube....

Dude, Microsoft does not own a YouTube competitor.

And, in no way Google is blocking their service, they just don't want to develop a proper app.

It's like Microsoft not developing Internet Explorer for Android or iOS... As simple as that.

If MS can decide that I can't switch from Bing to Google on WP then why can't Google decide not to make that extra step for youtube on WP ...

TheLeviathan said,
If MS can decide that I can't switch from Bing to Google on WP then why can't Google decide not to make that extra step for youtube on WP ...
That's not the issue though. If you read the source article, Google is selectively picking on MS and not other competitors. MS could create their own full app if they could... The issue is they are denying them permission to the same settings and metadata that the other competitors do have access to.

I've read the article and I still believe this is more of a "hot title" issue than an actual anti trust problem.

To my knowledge, both iOS and Android sport their youtube apps from Google... so why would they agree to let MS build their own for WP ? Does MS support private APIs on Windows or WP ?

@The Leviathan, that's not the issue - Microsoft wants to be able to compete in the mobile device space on equal footing with Android and iOS devices, and that means access to things like Google Apps, mail, calendar, youtube, and the like. Given that Google develops these for Android and iOS, but not for devices like Windows Phones or BlackBerries, it could be argued that they're using the lack of these services on those platforms (as decided by Google, not Microsoft or RIM) to push them out of the mobile device market. Using your dominant position to harm a competitor in an unrelated space is, in fact, antitrust behavior. Microsoft did the exact same thing by bundling IE with Windows to defeat Netscape during the browser wars, even though at that time Operating Systems and web browsers were completely separate things, and were not (to that point) routinely bundled together. Microsoft used it's 95+% desktop monopoly to push IE over Netscape, ultimately destroying that product as a viable commercial entity. While this is google's apps, search, and video streaming versus a web browser, those services are used by a very large majority of consumers in part and as a whole, and keeping them off of certain platforms while allowing them on others gives those others an unfair advantage in a space Google also competes. It's self-serving, and while it's not a bad business practice per se, it is illegal.

TheLeviathan said,
for the record, I do miss a native youtube app on WP8 ... Metrotube is cool, but just not the same ^^.

Use the IE browser, best experience possible, can use HTML5 content as well.

The problem is Microsoft wants to extend the 'share/hub' functionality to Youtube, and Google won't let the basic aspects of Windows Phone work with Youtube.

john.smith_2084 said,
Wasn't forbidden to add Chrome to Windows RT? Isn't that also Antitrust?

It's not forbidden. If Google made a Chrome metro app, you'd be able to install it. Microsoft doesn't create products/serivces that one competitor can use that others can't (unless they have a contractual agreement).

Web browsers aren't banned from the Windows Store, no. But certain APIs are restricted for security reasons - basically data execution prevention.

rfirth said,
Web browsers aren't banned from the Windows Store, no. But certain APIs are restricted for security reasons - basically data execution prevention.

However the API subset is adequate for Google to create a true Chrome 'Windows 8 App' version. The restricted secure WinRT subset should not stop Google or anyone else from creating a browser. (Native code and even DirectX is available.)

thenetavenger said,

However the API subset is adequate for Google to create a true Chrome 'Windows 8 App' version. The restricted secure WinRT subset should not stop Google or anyone else from creating a browser. (Native code and even DirectX is available.)


Without a proper JavaScript engine, their browser would be worthless, just like on iOS. Meanwhile, IE gets full access to the API, again, exactly like iOS.

Microsoft to Android OEMs: Pay us money or we will unleash the lawyers
Microsoft to Google: Invest in our platform, or we will unleash the lawyers

Just more of the usual double standard. Google has gone to governments and complained about IE shipping on WinRT computers, while their shipping devices with their browser and their browser only, and then put out statements saying that there is no market for those WinRT computers.

Do what Google says so they can make money, or they will go to the government and use their lawyers (which they don't pay for) to force others to enable Google to make money. Much like how Google wants money from people by selling their information to the highest bidder, but if people do not willfully hand over their information they will send their cars to your house to hack your network.

Pay Google or else!

Outlook, Hotmail, Yahoo, Google, etc, they all have your emails, your love letters, your business transactions maybe, things you bought from the internet, your family letters, just everything.

The people give up their personal info loooong time ago, they give it up for a free email account Microsoft have it, Google have it, yahoo have it, etc

and everyone uses it to make money, microsoft is trying to look like saint right now because they don't have too much traffic to all their services, and the moment they do they will milk you as well.

So Google driving around neighborhoods in their cars, hacking WiFi routers is OK because some people don't mind giving them information?

And also, like how you skip over the double standard Google has to blame MS for something that Google does.

No one is hacking any routers, they just gathered all the router info for location I think, who cares, my router is named Quaqua , big deal.

Facebook has all your personal life in a chronological order, there is no privacy anymore, Microsoft or Google, or Facebook or anyone else, they all pretend to be different, and they are all the same.

Microsoft is just threatening everyone to unleash the lawyers

Google has really been sucking a lot lately to the point where I don't want to use any of their crap anymore. My Gmail only forwards mail nowadays to Outlook.com, I'm also moving away from Google Voice to Skype (no decent client; refuse to use third party apps bc the vendor refuses to provide official one after so many years), even at work they're fed up with their crap and they're moving away from Google apps to Exchange/SharePoint.

Obry said,
Google has really been sucking a lot lately to the point where I don't want to use any of their crap anymore. My Gmail only forwards mail nowadays to Outlook.com, I'm also moving away from Google Voice to Skype (no decent client; refuse to use third party apps bc the vendor refuses to provide official one after so many years), even at work they're fed up with their crap and they're moving away from Google apps to Exchange/SharePoint.

Same... Everytime I even touch a Google product I feel iffy ever since I found pit their true colours.

Obry said,
Google has really been sucking a lot lately to the point where I don't want to use any of their crap anymore. My Gmail only forwards mail nowadays to Outlook.com, I'm also moving away from Google Voice to Skype (no decent client; refuse to use third party apps bc the vendor refuses to provide official one after so many years), even at work they're fed up with their crap and they're moving away from Google apps to Exchange/SharePoint.

Sad but true.
I've been a Google advocate for many many years. I was an original pre-launch tester for the Gmail service and loved it.
Unfortunately Google seems to have lost it's way and even lately I've been quite reluctant to sign up and use Google products and services. I've even stopped some clients signing up to certain paid for Google products and pointed them in the direction of alternative services.

It may seem odd but i'm quite sad about the direction and attitude in which Google are going

Obry said,
Google has really been sucking a lot lately to the point where I don't want to use any of their crap anymore. My Gmail only forwards mail nowadays to Outlook.com, I'm also moving away from Google Voice to Skype (no decent client; refuse to use third party apps bc the vendor refuses to provide official one after so many years), even at work they're fed up with their crap and they're moving away from Google apps to Exchange/SharePoint.

Sweet. So this doesn't affect you at all. Glad to hear it. I wonder if a lot of WP8 users feel like you. Please let Google know their services are second class to the alternatives you listed. That will show them.

It's the price you pay for being a minority player. Google are being pricks about this, but if WP gains any marketshare, you can bet they'll have support for it.

That's the whole reason Google is doing this - so that WP *doesn't* become a competitive platform. Things such as this are exactly what Microsoft got spanked for in the IE/Netscape browser wars, and this is similar behavior by leveraging Google's applications and brands to push a competitor out of an unrelated (mobile devices) market that they are also in with Android. It is, basically, antitrust behavior.

Defcon said,
It's the price you pay for being a minority player. Google are being pricks about this, but if WP gains any marketshare, you can bet they'll have support for it.

Of course they will. So I guess you are contradicting yourself there. How is Google being a prick? Should Google build an app for Windows Phone for minority players as you say? That means devoting time and money for a minority player? So which is it? Are they pricks or are they seeing WP8 is a minority that it isn't worth it for them to waste their resources on a player that isn't significant?

Given Google has allowed access to their APIs or has produced apps for Sony, TiVo, Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Nintendo, Vizio, and even to MS for the Xbox360 - all for areas that Google does not directly compete with these companies or those products. However, in the Smartphone market, Google doesn't allow access to Microsoft, but does (and even builds the app) for Apple.

I know Google currently has no obligation to produce an app, or (in what Microsoft is asking for) provide access to YouTube's API set so that Microsoft can build the app (like they did for the Xbox360), but again, there's no reason Google would provide access to lots of niche companies and niche products, and then only allow Apple access from a smartphone and not Microsoft (search competition) or BlackBerry (enterprise services). There was even a client made for WebOS that had access to the metadata that MS is asking for, so claiming marketshare is a bit of a push at this point too.

Edited by cluberti, Jan 3 2013, 1:12am :

Google only supports iOS because it is a large market player.

Getting a phone now adays is like being committed to a set of services. I cannot use Google Voice, Google Talk, Google Calendar (after activesync goes) on a Windows Phone that easily. I think that is a shame. Web services and end clients should be able to be mismatched. I hate this anti consumer practices.

Not everyone wants an Android Google, please let us use your services still ...

Google doesn't want to waste time on windows phone where the marketshare is next to none It takes a lot of development efforts with designers and developers to develop apps for a new platform, where they do not see any major marketshare. iOS gives google a lot of money and more web browsing data for google to mine than android! Microsoft hasn't made office for android or iOS, so it can be said the same! Heck, even facebook hasn't spent time to develop apps for windows phone or windows 8.

It was one of the main reasons I've always had my mail/contacts/calendar with Google - the openness of knowing it would be supported on any device, but they've been tightening their belt now that they have significant market share with Android and I'll be jumping ship if they continue their nonsense.

"Google doesn't want to waste time on windows phone where the marketshare is next to none"

Then opening the API to Microsoft shouldn't be a concern for them.

Microsoft can make third party apps like how MetroTube works or how Jasmine works on iOS. I do not like walled gardens myself, but google might be using this to leverage against Microsoft for other issues such as forced licensing to android vendors. Microsoft also abuses its patents agaInst android oems because they have leverage with their age old operating system patents.

szo said,
Google doesn't want to waste time on windows phone where the marketshare is next to none It takes a lot of development efforts with designers and developers to develop apps for a new platform, where they do not see any major marketshare. iOS gives google a lot of money and more web browsing data for google to mine than android! Microsoft hasn't made office for android or iOS, so it can be said the same! Heck, even facebook hasn't spent time to develop apps for windows phone or windows 8.

Microsoft is asking for Google to do anything. They just want equal access to the Youtube APIs and for them to remain consistent so they can build in access to the service.

The reason this is important to Microsoft is the integration features cannot include Google services like Youtube as it does with Facebook, twitter, etc. So the 'hub' and 'share' concept for Windows Phone cannot work with Youtube, which was Microsoft's intent.

Google does provide access to the 'closed' APIs to 'select' companies, just not Microsoft.

No, Google has always been the same regarding its youtube apis. I think Microsoft is asking for non-restricted api with no limit for youtube. But google is treating Microsoft the same way it treats other third-party youtube app devs.

Princess Chica Ami said,
Lame, then make your own youtube client....

Read the article... MS could create their own full app if they could... The issue is they are denying them permission to the same settings and metadata that the other competitors do have access to. You can't legally deny permission to just one competitor "just because". They need a case.

WRONG. Google doesn't allow full access to the API for ANY developer, much like any service out there. Windows Phone is no different or special. Google doesn't need to develop an app for any service. Microsoft simply needs to develop an app according to the API guidelines that ALL developers have to abide by. Don't like it? Too bad.

testman said,
WRONG. Google doesn't allow full access to the API for ANY developer, much like any service out there. Windows Phone is no different or special. Google doesn't need to develop an app for any service. Microsoft simply needs to develop an app according to the API guidelines that ALL developers have to abide by. Don't like it? Too bad.

Microsoft was accused of excluding competitors from getting equal access to the Windows desktop (not allowing shipping additional browsers), of using hidden APIs available for their products only, and using the natural monopoly of one product to increase the marketshare of another product - so they were taken to court over it.

Google doesn't give equal access to all their services - can I use Bing on the YouTube site to search rather than use the Google search engine?
Google is using hidden APIs that is only available to their products.
Google is using one product (the search engine) to increase the marketshare of another product (YouTube).

Why not apply the rules equally to all companies rather than selectively based upon your preferences?

nohone said,

Microsoft was accused of excluding competitors from getting equal access to the Windows desktop (not allowing shipping additional browsers), of using hidden APIs available for their products only, and using the natural monopoly of one product to increase the marketshare of another product - so they were taken to court over it.

Google doesn't give equal access to all their services - can I use Bing on the YouTube site to search rather than use the Google search engine?
Google is using hidden APIs that is only available to their products.
Google is using one product (the search engine) to increase the marketshare of another product (YouTube).

Why not apply the rules equally to all companies rather than selectively based upon your preferences?


+1... Google really doesn't have a case for this. They can't deny service to one competitor and give full access to others for no legal reason.

Um google doesn't give out their api. That's why Microsoft is complaining. Google stated specifically no official google apps for any google services on windows phone.

Microsoft wants to create their own youtube app and google said NO. So yes this is a big problem. Microsoft got sued for doing this exact same thing so google should have to let Microsoft have access to youtube also.

testman said,
WRONG. Google doesn't allow full access to the API for ANY developer, much like any service out there. Windows Phone is no different or special. Google doesn't need to develop an app for any service. Microsoft simply needs to develop an app according to the API guidelines that ALL developers have to abide by. Don't like it? Too bad.

Prior to the Monopoly case against Microsoft... Go look up Wordperfect, Lotus, Orin Hatch and 1992/1993 and the pursuits against Microsoft claiming that Word and Excel had unfair advantages by using undocumented APIs in Windows.

(The irony is Microsoft was smacked around for this crap, even though the APIs were visible and had nothing to do with any advantage for Word or Excel.)

Google is playing with fire, and Microsoft is making their concerns public, which means they are DONE trying to work with Google behind the scenes. Outside of monopolistic pressures, Microsoft has a lot of power here that I don't think even Google realizes.

They should go as Sun about Java and their bitch slap at Microsoft, and how well that worked out for them.

Brandon said,
According to Wikipedia, I'm not sure what MSFT has against Google as far as an "antitrust" case.

YouTube is a Google service. They don't have to allow a competitor to use their service.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law


Wikipedia obviously isn't a true source true for antitrust law. MSFT's case is that Google allows other competitor mobile OSs to make full use of their API and specifically not allowing MS. Apple and Google are not partners, so it's considered pretty much unjustly bullying against MS really. Google would need a case as to why they allow other competitors use it but not MS. Makes perfect sense for me.

They are clearly being anticompetitive and abusing their power in one market (online video, YouTube) to influence another (smartphones).

Yes, the office format are standards! That's why many people were opposed to the .docx formats and wanted to go with the open .odf format for word processing. Youtube is not a standard! There is vimeo, dailymotion, and many more websites. What google is doing is wrong, but apple does the same with its software such as final cut, which used to be the defacto standard is movie cutting and they do with many other softwares too. Microsoft promotes a lot of its software and spends a lot of money to make it a standard so it will be widespread.

The others here have it - if they only made it available for Android devices or other Google-branded devices/software, it'd be a hard argument to make. However, making their platform available to some products or companies in the market (in this case, making their APIs and apps available to Apple and their iOS devices) and not making it available (at all) to others (in this case, the Windows Phone platform - we'll see what happens with BlackBerry as they release their new product soon) is a fairly good definition of anticompetitive behavior, which we tend to call "antitrust" in the US due to "antitrust" laws being used to govern competition in the marketplace.

Leveraging a market where you have a dominant position, in this case online video and search, and using it to squash a competitor product in another market where you compete (again, in this case the mobile device/mobile phone market) is basically what Microsoft did with Internet Explorer and Netscape. While there's some argument Microsoft made out OK in the US eventually (the dead decade might be the punishment, perhaps), but Microsoft was found guilty of this sort of behavior and Google should probably be as well if this sees the inside of a courtroom.

No, the api is available for third party developers, but it has a limit of how many videos can be shown and what features can be used! That's why third party youtube apps on iOS like jasmine and others have such a difficult time too. Twitter does the same limiting in its api. That's why third party twitter clients charge so much and after 100,000 users cannot accept anymore. These companies don't want third party apps because they can gather user data effectively and mine it. Google wants to use its own native apps or use the browser apps. wp8 users can use the browser youtube with html5 mode.

rfirth said,
They are clearly being anticompetitive and abusing their power in one market (online video, YouTube) to influence another (smartphones).

It's not anti-competitive. It just so happens that a huge portion of iOS users use YouTube. Unfortunately just like the GMail app situation for Microsoft Windows Phone users, they are SOL.

What is the End Game for Google? My guess an agreement with how much Microsoft makes off of Android should be put on the bargaining table for Google to consider making a Gmail and YouTube. Those are the two biggest services Windows Phone 8 users are missing out on. Now that is what I call smart.

Brandon said,
According to Wikipedia, I'm not sure what MSFT has against Google as far as an "antitrust" case.

YouTube is a Google service. They don't have to allow a competitor to use their service.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law

Just like Microsoft doesn't have to let competitors dictate or change features with access to Office or Windows.

Oh wait, they did get to dictate this crap for nearly 10 years, which Microsoft is still recovering.

Google owns a higher % of the online video market than Windows did of the PC market.

DoomsDayMayan said,

It's not anti-competitive. It just so happens that a huge portion of iOS users use YouTube. Unfortunately just like the GMail app situation for Microsoft Windows Phone users, they are SOL.

What is the End Game for Google? My guess an agreement with how much Microsoft makes off of Android should be put on the bargaining table for Google to consider making a Gmail and YouTube. Those are the two biggest services Windows Phone 8 users are missing out on. Now that is what I call smart.

Microsoft doesn't have a problem reproducing access to these 'services' but with Google's closed and selective permissions it become a bit of a problem for Google to have any credibility. Especially when they pretend to be Open, and still keep APIs restricted from some but not all companies.

Youtube and GMail work fine on Windows Phone BTW. Using IE9/10, the full desktop browser experience is available without a problem.

Anyone using Windows Phone should forward their Gmail to a Microsoft Account Outlook/Hotmail folder and use it as the mail aggregator. Doing so, the end user doesn't need Exchange, and doesn't need to deal with multiple email providers and their crap interfaces.

Because of advanced features of EAS, Windows phone hooked into a Hotmail/Outlook account has 'instant' access to all incoming messages and synchronization, and can offer users access to their entire inbox history with several Gb of information in their folders/inbox that is accessible instantly. (Something iOS and Android CANNOT do in any of their email clients.)

szo said,
Yes, the office format are standards! That's why many people were opposed to the .docx formats and wanted to go with the open .odf format for word processing. Youtube is not a standard! There is vimeo, dailymotion, and many more websites. What google is doing is wrong, but apple does the same with its software such as final cut, which used to be the defacto standard is movie cutting and they do with many other softwares too. Microsoft promotes a lot of its software and spends a lot of money to make it a standard so it will be widespread.

Are you just talking out of your ass or what?
MS got into antitrust **** for closing out competitors on purose from their 'services'. Google is doing exactly the same. Youtube is in the western Internet world, by FAR the biggest video website. Your other examples are tiny compared to Youtube. Hence Youtube falls under monopoly rules. And has to be EXTRA supportive to competitors to stay around.
Google is doing the exact opposite, they have been bullying MS for a long time now. And MS has been responding. But in these kind of battles. MS is the adult one, They have the experience to not push themselves into the same corner again and know how to push others into the corner.

Listen up, Google isn't making a separate example with microsoft. Google has the same api limits for all third party youtube dev apps. Metrotube has the same restrictions. Jasmin on ios faces the same issues. Google doesn't want to give too much power to third party apps because they want to mine the search data and be able to display ads. Google limits the api because online websites have built youtube media converters or youtube video downloaders. Microsoft just wants a separate deal and an unrestricted youtube api. Google treats microsoft just like the other third party youtube devs. Google will develop a youtube app for wp8 or windows 8 when it see a marketshare forming. Right now, they see it as a waste of time. You do realize that there is a special dedicated team of designers and developers for google's iOS apps. Google doesn't feel any need to do that with Microsoft at the moment and will probably won't waste with BB10 or whatever else. Remember, Microsoft hasn't made an office app for android or ios. wp8 users can use mobile html5 youtube website until their marketshare increases to something that most serious third-party devs will care about!

szo said
Google will NEVER develop a youtube app for wp8 or windows 8 BECAUSE it DOESN'T WANT TO see a marketshare forming. Right now, they see it as a waY TO KILL WP. You do realize that there is a special dedicated team of designers and developers for google's iOS apps. Google doesn't feel any need to do that with Microsoft at the moment and will probably won't waste with BB10 or whatever else. Remember, Microsoft IS RELEASING OFFICE FOR IOS AND ANDROID.

Fixed this for you.

szo said,
Google doesn't want to give too much power to third party apps because they want to mine the search data and be able to display ads.
Google will develop a youtube app for wp8 or windows 8 when it see a marketshare forming. Right now, they see it as a waste of time.

If WP marketshare is so tiny to care and build their own app to mine data, why not just let 3rd party access YouTube without restriction. Based on your assumption, Google wouldn't lose much data nor ads due to tiny number of users.
It has more to do with their intention of killing WP than anything else.

nguyen2011 said,

If WP marketshare is so tiny to care and build their own app to mine data, why not just let 3rd party access YouTube without restriction. Based on your assumption, Google wouldn't lose much data nor ads due to tiny number of users.
It has more to do with their intention of killing WP than anything else.

Because if you can allow one, you would have to allow all.

Are these apps somehow getting around the API limitations? Or are they still 'second class' citizens so to speak?

They work extremely well. The only thing that it can't do is be the default app. So if you click a link to a youtube video it still goes to the browser. Other than that its fantastic.

Agreed, however, whenever Google makes changes to YouTube, Windows Phone are out in the cold until the MetroTube developers update their app just like what happened a week or so ago.

Are these apps somehow getting around the API limitations? Or are they still 'second class' citizens so to speak?

They use undocumented APIs that have to constantly be updated to get around Google's "blocking". A couple of months after Metrotube was released the developers decided it wasn't worth the hassle to continually update their app just because Google were being *******s, but thankfully they re-released it.

DomZ said,
Are these apps somehow getting around the API limitations? Or are they still 'second class' citizens so to speak?

Not only are the APIs a moving target, there are several 'features' that these applications cannot implement.

thenetavenger said,

Not only are the APIs a moving target, there are several 'features' that these applications cannot implement.

Like location tracking, stealth front facing camera streaming to a Google server with facial recognition and automatic Google+ account generation?

I think the mud flinging is going in one direction. Google are in serious antitrust trouble with the EU and need to understand that when you want to get out of a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging.

Major Plonquer said,
I think the mud flinging is going in one direction. Google are in serious antitrust trouble with the EU and need to understand that when you want to get out of a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging.

Google has stamped out its woes with the FTC and will soon have done the same with the EC. MS on the other hand could lose 10% of its revenue in fines.

thealexweb said,

Google has stamped out its woes with the FTC and will soon have done the same with the EC. MS on the other hand could lose 10% of its revenue in fines.

No, there's serious threat that Google could face an anti-trust case just like Microsoft did. Those fines they paid are nothing, they're still in hot water.