Microsoft stock continues to slide as investors become worried about future

After launching three crucial products that will define Microsoft's future, you would think investor confidence in the company would be high going into the holiday season. Unfortunately for Ballmer and crew, this is not the case.

Microsoft's stock is approaching its 52-week low with a closing price today of $26.43; the stock's 52-week low is $25.29. For those of you who have watched Microsoft stock over the past few years, you will know that it typically travels a tight range of 25-32 dollars per share. Seeing as the stock is approaching that lower threshold, investors are likely becoming worried over Microsoft's future. 

But, is this concern warranted? The stock drop is likely related to the question around the sales of Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8. While Microsoft has proudly proclaimed that they sold 40 million licenses for the platform, it is believed that many of these sales were to OEMs and not consumers. Additionally, with 40 million sales at an upgrade friendly price of $40.00, Microsoft's revenue is likely to be less than that of Windows 7 during the same launch period as Windows 7 commanded a significantly higher premium. 

Then there are the sales of Windows Phone 8. Microsoft has only provided the useless statistic of Windows Phone 8 sales being four times the previous sales of Windows Phone 7. Having no hard numbers to go on, our guess is that the numbers while better than last time, are still not phenomenal. If the sales of the platform were spectuatualr, you can bet that Microsoft would have shouted that from the rooftop. 

Finally there is the Surface, which Microsoft has provided no guidance on the sales of that platform. Again, if the sales were spectacular, they would have likely announced the figures. 

Are investor fears warranted? Well, you have to consider that the market is only worried about the short term and Microsoft's Windows 8 may not fully materialize for several more years as the form-factor war ignites. From the short term, investors may be worried, but the longer-term approach for Microsoft appears to be coming together. 

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If you look at the market, at the people and how they feel with marketing, how down is their sense of critic, How the press is with Microsoft (or any challenger), etc.

Even if Windows 8, WP8 and surface was had been the best product ever made by Microsoft or someone else, (and maybe they are), its pretty sure the results related by press, market feelings and stocks would be the same.

I bet less people would be interested with iPhone 6... and iPad 5... and iOS 7...
And with iPhone 7... iPad 6... and iOS 8...
Why?
Because there's no such REAL need for it, other than for satisfying the hype itself...
Their values would be constantly decreasing...

And Apple would join MS, along with Google... LOL

mahara said,
I bet less people would be interested with iPhone 6... and iPad 5... and iOS 7...
And with iPhone 7... iPad 6... and iOS 8...
Why?
Because there's no such REAL need for it, other than for satisfying the hype itself...
Their values would be constantly decreasing...

And Apple would join MS, along with Google... LOL

I know people that will preorder each iDevice before knowing anything about it other than it's available for pre-order.

mahara said,
I bet less people would be interested with iPhone 6... and iPad 5... and iOS 7...
And with iPhone 7... iPad 6... and iOS 8...
Why?
Because there's no such REAL need for it, other than for satisfying the hype itself...
Their values would be constantly decreasing...

And Apple would join MS, along with Google... LOL

Apple has incredibly strong customer loyalty and people buy their devices because they want to, most people buy PCs when they old one dies and / or they have too. This a major problem for MS, getting people interested with Windows again.

thealexweb said,
Apple has incredibly strong customer loyalty and people buy their devices because they want to...

Everything has limit in this world... The question would be: until when? A year, a decade, a century?

Isnt thisd all the same stuff that was going around on vistas release? Allk they have to do is bring back the start menu in desktop mode and windows 9 or windows blue will get TONS os sales.

Heck they can even release a $9 feature update to add it to windows 8. they now have the functionality to do it.

Microsoft is going nowhere. Analysts should wait till the surface pro is released also .A lot of people have been waiting for that one.

So Neowin is giving stock advice now?

The site just took it's unprofessionalism to new lows. MS has been pulling in record profits. Stock price means **** all.

ahhell said,
So Neowin is giving stock advice now?

The site just took it's unprofessionalism to new lows. MS has been pulling in record profits. Stock price means **** all.


The irony that you speak of unprofessionalism while saying that stock price mean nothing...

Maybe we should abandon the stock market then for simplicity?

Northgrove said,

The irony that you speak of unprofessionalism while saying that stock price mean nothing...

Maybe we should abandon the stock market then for simplicity?


The stock market does not reflect how well a company is doing. MS has been pulling in record profits yet their stock price is down. Is MS doing bad? No.

Stupid Microsoft. I paid you for licenses of Win95, then 98, then XP, then 7 Ultimate; and that last one was not two or three years ago, and for a significant amount (more than $150). I see no reason important to me to upgrade to Win 8; Windows 7 are still completely perfect for my needs.

And I can't care less if this new trend (or push) towards tablets fails miserably.

Windows 8 isn't very appealing especially with underwhelming hardware and possible the worst selection of basic apps ever made that are worse and have less features than previous software. That is unforgivable.

I like the Surface hardware, seems well built but I cannot stand the software. Microsoft should have stuck with x86 and Windows Phone. WinRT just rips the soul out of Windows and even basic use, it feels like it doesn't quite work. Too many things missing. Small niggles absolutely cripple it.

dave164 said,

you are crazy if you think that, Windows is not it's only business.

Gaming division is doing it fine (or number of sales) but in profit. MS hardly profit from xbox360.
Mobile devices is pretty much f***** **p.
Server division (a main core of MS) is doing it fine... with windows server 2008 and 2008 r2.
Office division (another main core) is round in circle with some success and fail.
And Windows division is giving a lot of troubles, MS spend a fortune only in marketing.

Brony said,
...

True.

I don't know what division Azure falls under, but I can guarantee they will be a cloud leader in no time.
That's some amazing technology coupled with a solid management solution which could become the geo-located server farm to rule them all.

Roger Gustafsson said,
Well they can probably live on selling xbox for a few year more
or start listen to its users what they want and dont do things that people dont want.

Are you sure that's a good idea? Left to their own devices people want endless rehashes of X-Factor, Dancing On Ice With Midgets In Tutu's (actually i'd watch that!) FIFA and Angry Birds. Throw them out of their comfort zone and they'll complain loudly until the next update comes along, at which point the previous release suddenly becomes TEH BESTEST VERSION EVAR!!!

Roger Gustafsson said,
Well they can probably live on selling xbox for a few year more
or start listen to its users what they want and dont do things that people dont want.

The last time i checked, the whole Entertainment and Devices Division gives not more than 3% of the profit of MS. It is a golden mine but for MS viewpoint, it is a small golden mine that gave years of losses.

If you're worried about Microsoft's future, sell your stock now to someone who knows what they'll do next (a.k.a. someone who can use Google) and watch as they get rich.

Aethec said,
If you're worried about Microsoft's future, sell your stock now to someone who knows what they'll do next (a.k.a. someone who can use Google) and watch as they get rich.

Question, what they will do next?. Windows 9?

bigmehdi said,

I think Microsoft is pushing to hard that win 8, while user rejecting it too hard, it would break somewhere.

It's not user rejecting, it's IT rejecting Win8. If they let their users have it, they would see how much end users prefer over previous iterations.

Albert said,

like i said. keep on delusioning. lmfao.

Dude, have you read the comments on that article. Zero are positive towards the article stating it has no substance, no reality, nothing.

auziez said,

Dude, have you read the comments on that article. Zero are positive towards the article stating it has no substance, no reality, nothing.

obviously they don't teach you to read where you came from. lol.

hvasilev said,
I hope they change their entire view of what the new OS should look like, cuz Winodws 8 .... is not good.

The thing is that it IS pretty decent for amateur users interested in Twitter and Facebook. It IS pretty good at competing with an iPad. But what are they doing for the rest? There's an entire enterprise industry that are being ignored to an unsettling degree lately. That they keep using the Metro UI for freaking servers is a joke! "Oh let me sit down here with this rack-mounted server in my lap. See how nicely the display reacts to touch? Oh look, I can browse Facebook with this cool app on it!" What's happening with Microsoft's focus lately is a travesty...

The reason the stock fell from the $28-$30 level to $26-$27 was Sinofsky's exit. This is event is not even mentioned in the article.

Just goes to show that you are un-professional financial analysts as well.

cinthia said,
The reason the stock fell from the $28-$30 level to $26-$27 was Sinofsky's exit. This is event is not even mentioned in the article.

Just goes to show that you are un-professional financial analysts as well.


Cuz its not true. Even Ballmer's exit wouldn't effect the stock price as much as it does now, if the company was actually moving in the right direction.

The truth is that their new OS is not very good for desktop PCs.

hvasilev said,

Cuz its not true. Even Ballmer's exit wouldn't effect the stock price as much as it does now, if the company was actually moving in the right direction.

The truth is that their new OS is not very good for desktop PCs.

Major decline in stock price following his leave, sir. It is true. It would not be where it is if he didn't leave. It would be down, but not as much.

Its early to say if w8 is selling good. But I don't think its a bad upgrade. My laptop on w7 ran horrid.

hvasilev said,

The truth is that their new OS is not very good for desktop PCs.

Runs nicely on my laptop and desktop. Having said that, desktops and laptops of any flavour are being outsold by tablets at the moment. This will probably only accelerate - most people are consumers of data and historically used desktops and laptops as their only available form-factor option to get at that data.

hvasilev said,

Cuz its not true. Even Ballmer's exit wouldn't effect the stock price as much as it does now, if the company was actually moving in the right direction.

The truth is that their new OS is not very good for desktop PCs.

Are you sure you mean truth and not truthiness? The history of MSFT stock price is there publicly available. I encourage you to check it out if you're interested in truth and facts.

But you can always go with your gut...

cinthia said,
The reason the stock fell from the $28-$30 level to $26-$27 was Sinofsky's exit. This is event is not even mentioned in the article.

Just goes to show that you are un-professional financial analysts as well.


Sinofsky's exit would not have been a problem if Microsoft would have presented mind blowing Windows Phone and Surface sales.

I think the major problem here is that Microsoft is showing a lack of confidence in the desktop and enterprise, with this focus on mobile lately (I count tablet and tablet hybrids as mobile too due to their pretty major sacrifices for mobility). I can understand that being a big worry for shareholders right now, since that would be showing a shift from what they're best at.

If Microsoft is truly interested in the enterprise and professional users who need more than Metro apps, they need to be much better at advertising this, and stake out their future on the Windows platform for the forthcoming 5 years like they are doing for the consumers happy with just a little wimpy Surface ultrabook/tablet hybrid.

Edited by Northgrove, Dec 4 2012, 1:04pm :

Microsoft is going down because of it own doing... As a windows phone 7.5 user..."I feel like I wasted my money, sadly not recommend to my friends to buy Windows Phone now, one year with my Lumia and now will be abandoned,” no updated to he seen, next update to be release in sometime 2013... As for windows 8 is a great mistake on their part...

ogamawab said,
Microsoft is going down because of it own doing... As a windows phone 7.5 user..."I feel like I wasted my money, sadly not recommend to my friends to buy Windows Phone now, one year with my Lumia and now will be abandoned,” no updated to he seen, next update to be release in sometime 2013... As for windows 8 is a great mistake on their part...

And I see no information update in Marketplace after WP8 was launched. Even worse, now I get the install the Refresh Marketplace notification warning whenever I fired up the Marketplace. Still failed to fix it.

ogamawab said,
Microsoft is going down because of it own doing... As a windows phone 7.5 user..."I feel like I wasted my money, sadly not recommend to my friends to buy Windows Phone now, one year with my Lumia and now will be abandoned,” no updated to he seen, next update to be release in sometime 2013... As for windows 8 is a great mistake on their part...

"no update to e seen" is contradicted right after by you saying "next update to be released in...."

You fail. So hard. Go back to the depths you came from Troll!

ogamawab said,
Microsoft is going down because of it own doing... As a windows phone 7.5 user..."I feel like I wasted my money, sadly not recommend to my friends to buy Windows Phone now, one year with my Lumia and now will be abandoned,” no updated to he seen, next update to be release in sometime 2013... As for windows 8 is a great mistake on their part...

Has your Windows Phone 7.5 and all of its apps stopped working? When I upgraded to a 920 (held off on my purchase or 6 months because I knew WP8 was coming). I gave my Omnia 7 to my mum - she loves it and is downloading tons of apps for it. No doubt she will use it until she inherits my 920.

On an a related note - where's the outrage that I don't get the software upgrade of Siri or iOS6 on my iPad 1? That's right - it's only bad if Microsoft does it.

Pygmy_Hippo said,

On an a related note - where's the outrage that I don't get the software upgrade of Siri or iOS6 on my iPad 1? That's right - it's only bad if Microsoft does it.

Because iPad 1 is outdated. iPad 2 was a major update. It's lighter, can use Smart Covers, and has a front webcam. Those three things make a big difference overall, and make it worth the upgrade. The webcam especially for Skype/FaceTime.

68k said,

Because iPad 1 is outdated. iPad 2 was a major update. It's lighter, can use Smart Covers, and has a front webcam. Those three things make a big difference overall, and make it worth the upgrade. The webcam especially for Skype/FaceTime.

So its weight, ability to have smart covers and webcam mean I can't use Siri? By that token people shouldn't be too worried about the difference between WP7.8 and WP8

lomas said,
Windows 8 is amazing...

shame some ppl just don't like to adopt new technologies...

Some people just can't afford to buy new handset when their phone is only 10 months old to be able to use new apps.

tkaw220 said,

Some people just can't afford to buy new handset when their phone is only 10 months old to be able to use new apps.


Windows 8 not WP8

lomas said,
Windows 8 is amazing...

shame some ppl just don't like to adopt new technologies...

Or it could be that productivity is important to some people.

fobban said,
Or it could be that productivity is important to some people.

Windows 8 is productive -_-
if not, more productive. Given that I find it faster and fluid.

lomas said,
Windows 8 is amazing...

shame some ppl just don't like to adopt new technologies...

No its not. Its a horrible windows for tablets, which they wanna sell on desktop machines.

hvasilev said,

No its not. Its a horrible windows for tablets, which they wanna sell on desktop machines.

Its a hybrid?

This means it has a touch UI, and a desktop UI. Both for different uses. Neither or has to be used, or is being forced to be used.

And how is it horrible for tablets per say? Last time I checked its on par, or offers better features than your iPad. Just because it isn't selling as well does not mean its "horrible".

O Rly?

So why is their no longer an easy way to get it to boot into Desktop Mode and run my Desktop Only Apps as we have for the last 5 years without having to jump though hoops or install third party apps. Not everyone uses a Desktop OS for Desktop Tasks (presentation, kiosks etc)

I call this forcing Metro down peoples throats. Other than that I have no issues with the OS.

auziez said,

Its a hybrid?

This means it has a touch UI, and a desktop UI. Both for different uses. Neither or has to be used, or is being forced to be used.

And how is it horrible for tablets per say? Last time I checked its on par, or offers better features than your iPad. Just because it isn't selling as well does not mean its "horrible".

KSib said,
i wouldn't really call it "new technologies"

Then you don't know enough about the OS, and have only been reading the crap articles about the Start Screen and other inane Hype.

Also by 'definition'... After it was adapted for marketing, NT did become 'New Technology', so by definition, ALL releases of Windows today are New Technology.

auziez said,

Its a hybrid?

This means it has a touch UI, and a desktop UI. Both for different uses. Neither or has to be used, or is being forced to be used.

And how is it horrible for tablets per say? Last time I checked its on par, or offers better features than your iPad. Just because it isn't selling as well does not mean its "horrible".


Why bother man. These people are either trolls or to stupid to understand.

Unplugged said,
O Rly?

So why is their no longer an easy way to get it to boot into Desktop Mode and run my Desktop Only Apps as we have for the last 5 years without having to jump though hoops


So you have to click a button to go to desktop mode. And that seriously impacts your productivity?

If that's what you call jumping through hoops I hate to see what you're like in real life.

lomas said,
Windows 8 is amazing...
shame some ppl just don't like to adopt new technologies...

Some people prefer to adopt new technologies that at least appear to have had some kind of thought put into them. Windows 8 is just the worst of both worlds for me and I can't stand that they've ended up doing some kind of ****** child of Windows of old and Windows of new - ending up with, for example, multiple different places to configure system settings. I utterly hate a number of changes, and I simply don't think Metro works on a desktop PC as a design style. I love it on my Windows Phone but I hate it on the desktop.

This is my opinion though. I totally respect those of you who love Windows 8 - I'm glad it works for you. But for me, it's just a complete and utter dogs dinner.

auziez said,

Its a hybrid?

This means it has a touch UI, and a desktop UI. Both for different uses. Neither or has to be used, or is being forced to be used.

And how is it horrible for tablets per say? Last time I checked its on par, or offers better features than your iPad. Just because it isn't selling as well does not mean its "horrible".

Um, you boot to start, click desktop and you're done. If that impacts productivity then holy crap you've got problems. Consider this: the machine boots faster and the OS loads faster. That 2 seconds it takes to click to desktop are offset in a lopsided way.

lomas said,
Windows 8 is amazing...

shame some ppl just don't like to adopt new technologies...


What are you talking about? Technology moves forward at an incredible pace right now, especially in the mobile phone and tablet industry. Which REQUIRES new technology to be adopted. Your problem isn't this. Your problem is that Microsoft's new technology isn't.

JSYOUNG571 said,
KARMA @ it's best for screwing over Windows Phone 7 customers.

How they screwing over WP7 customers? They got updates for free and didn't have to get new phones every year or every six months cause their phone was not allowed updates like Android phones or half ass updates from Apple. All WP7 phones was updated to 7.5 and next year to 7.8.

Dot Matrix said,

How are they screwing WP7 customers?

Firstly, they announced no WP8 upgrade for my 4 months old Lumia 800 (note: Lumia first launched in my country on Feb 2012). Even though there's 7.8 variant, but I'm certain popular apps won't introduce new upgrade for WP7 generation. Just look at FB which is version 4 in WP8, WP7 is still stuck in version 2.7 and no update since July.

Those new apps such as Angry Bird Star Wars is available for WP8 only. I lose faith in WP after seeing my wife playing Angry Birds Star Wars, latest FB, Instagram, Whatsapp in her 2.5 years Sony Xperia X10 which is still running on Android 2.2.

I can only play AB Star Wars in my Win8 :-(

tkaw220 said,

Firstly, they announced no WP8 upgrade for my 4 months old Lumia 800 (note: Lumia first launched in my country on Feb 2012). Even though there's 7.8 variant, but I'm certain popular apps won't introduce new upgrade for WP7 generation. Just look at FB which is version 4 in WP8, WP7 is still stuck in version 2.7 and no update since July.

Those new apps such as Angry Bird Star Wars is available for WP8 only. I lose faith in WP after seeing my wife playing Angry Birds Star Wars, latest FB, Instagram, Whatsapp in her 2.5 years Sony Xperia X10 which is still running on Android 2.2.

I can only play AB Star Wars in my Win8 :-(

Well. The thing is, Microsoft didn't say "lets just completely leave those users behind", which is what you make it sound like.

In-fact, I believe there are supposed to be a couple more big updates coming. That were rumored at least. May be more, who knows. So wp7 users are NOT being left behind in terms of support. But I'd agree in terms of ecosystem.

Microsoft had a choice, be stuck in the past or build for the future. They decided that the future was best bet. So they created wp8 on a new system. Im sorry that you justt had the 800 released in your country, but the phone Is still solid, still going to be updated, and has a fairly good app collection.

ALSO, it was announced in june that wp8 would not be supported on wp7 devices. Which would have meant you bought knowing that......................................................................................... then you kinda set yourself up. lol.

tkaw220 said,

Firstly, they announced no WP8 upgrade for my 4 months old Lumia 800 (note: Lumia first launched in my country on Feb 2012). Even though there's 7.8 variant, but I'm certain popular apps won't introduce new upgrade for WP7 generation. Just look at FB which is version 4 in WP8, WP7 is still stuck in version 2.7 and no update since July.

Those new apps such as Angry Bird Star Wars is available for WP8 only. I lose faith in WP after seeing my wife playing Angry Birds Star Wars, latest FB, Instagram, Whatsapp in her 2.5 years Sony Xperia X10 which is still running on Android 2.2.

I can only play AB Star Wars in my Win8 :-(

First, learn a bit of English. Second, Microsoft can't do anything about it its like going out and buying an iPod Touch 4th generation and then the 5th gen coming out a week later, the difference being that you should have not been so ignorant, read up on sites like this and realised that WP8 was about to be released and you could of held off. Your problem, your fault, deal with it.

ingramator said,

First, learn a bit of English. Second, Microsoft can't do anything about it its like going out and buying an iPod Touch 4th generation and then the 5th gen coming out a week later, the difference being that you should have not been so ignorant, read up on sites like this and realised that WP8 was about to be released and you could of held off. Your problem, your fault, deal with it.

Correct. It was announced in June it would not be supported on wp7.x devices.
Which means he bought with knowledge... which means its more his fault then MS.

stm24 said,

like Android phones or half ass updates from Apple. All WP7 phones was updated to 7.5 and next year to 7.8.

Root an android phone and then you're free to install the newest updates for free

R-Metal said,

Root an android phone and then you're free to install the newest updates for free

you could do something similar to get wp8 on wp7 device. Doesn't mean it will still work well.

JSYOUNG571 said,
KARMA @ it's best for screwing over Windows Phone 7 customers.

Lots a Q.Q about WP7.
You get anything your phones can/will support with the 7.8 update. What use are all the other updates your Phone wont support. Or due to architectural change of Kernel, it will most likely run on the older phones. But how slow do you want it to be? As a brick?
Or rather keep it speedy and still keep the features your Phone supports.

tkaw220 said,

Firstly, they announced no WP8 upgrade for my 4 months old Lumia 800 (note: Lumia first launched in my country on Feb 2012). Even though there's 7.8 variant, but I'm certain popular apps won't introduce new upgrade for WP7 generation. Just look at FB which is version 4 in WP8, WP7 is still stuck in version 2.7 and no update since July.

Those new apps such as Angry Bird Star Wars is available for WP8 only. I lose faith in WP after seeing my wife playing Angry Birds Star Wars, latest FB, Instagram, Whatsapp in her 2.5 years Sony Xperia X10 which is still running on Android 2.2.

I can only play AB Star Wars in my Win8 :-(

There are still new 7.8 phones to be released, it is far from a dying or unsupported platform.

Right NOW the majority of WP8 Apps that do not work on WP7 are based on hardware features your phone does NOT have.

WP7 will continue through the next year, and yes will be relegated to the low end markets, but is NOT going away, in fact as it targets the low end markets, it share should pick up and before the primary directed platform for development for a while.

WP7 was only available in premium and major carriers, and had little availability, WP7.8 devices will hit low end providers and consumers that use prepaid, no-contract, etc.

You didn't get cheated, and by the time you are ready for a new phone is about the time you will have NEED for a WP8 device.

Notice, if you read the REVIEWS or people talking about WP8, they are PRIMARILY talking HARDWARE, better camera, new screen, etc. WP7 is just as fast and slick as when you bought it.

As for AB Star Wars, it is a promotion and they are using their new unified native code base engine, which is why there wasn't a WP7 version.

As for the Android 2.2 comparison, there are a lot of features the Apps you mention do not have on 2.2 and there are even more Apps not available for pre 4.x versions of Android than you realize.

I have access to any phone, literally, and I still carry my WP7 HTC Trophy 99% of the time. I'll move to a WP8 device before long, but it is not a major necessity, and I have them at work and can take one anytime I want.

They're still on par long term, more so than Apple and Google are. Google seems to be falling apart at the seams, and Apple, well, Apple is still living in 2007. Though, that might change now with Forestall gone.

"Google seems to be falling apart at the seams."
No way. I don't agree. Google are probably "the" most innovative company. Search, Maps, Android, Documents - they have done a great job with all their products, and I can see more and more people using them in the future. The Bing division seem to just copy from Google.

"Apple is still living in 2007. Though, that might change now with Forestall gone."
I think Tim Cook is not as hard on his employees in regards to perfection as Steve Jobs was. Tim should have known when Maps was ready for release - did he actually test maps personally? Tim has a different character to Steve, and Steve "was Apple". I don't see much future in the iPod.

What Microsoft (and Windows 8 fanboys) don't seem to understand is that there are still many satisfied Windows XP and 7 users out there - meaning: don't expect large sales of Windows 8. And those with iPads won't just replace them with a Surface - in most cases, they will buy another (iPad). We have reached a point in time where the following question is more difficult to answer than ever:
What's next for Windows and Office?

At the same time, I am asking myself "why should I upgrade to Windows 8 and Office 2013, when XP/7 and Office 2007 do everything I need them too?". Windows 95, XP, and 7 were significant upgrades. I would call Windows 8 minor, or even insignificant (for desktop users).

68k said,
&Office 2007 do everything I need them too?". Windows 95, XP, and 7 were significant upgrades. I would call Windows 8 minor, or even insignificant (for desktop users).

Well, I upgraded purely because I like being up to date. Plus I found my laptop to run many times better. Windows 7 crashed for me many times, windows 8 seems ALLOT more stable. Plus windows 7 FPS didn't hold up well, while w8 seemed to do better with the drivers.

Anyways, I think windows 8 is a major upgrade in terms of if you want to buy or have a touch-enabled device. But as for someone upgrading without touch... if you don't know what it brings for improvements then it may seem insignificant.

Personally, I think it was a good upgrade. But if you want to get more fluid(ness) in the UI, then wait for the next release of windows.

68k said,
"Google seems to be falling apart at the seams."
No way. I don't agree. Google are probably "the" most innovative company. Search, Maps, Android, Documents - they have done a great job with all their products, and I can see more and more people using them in the future. The Bing division seem to just copy from Google.

"Apple is still living in 2007. Though, that might change now with Forestall gone."
I think Tim Cook is not as hard on his employees in regards to perfection as Steve Jobs was. Tim should have known when Maps was ready for release - did he actually test maps personally? Tim has a different character to Steve, and Steve "was Apple". I don't see much future in the iPod.

What Microsoft (and Windows 8 fanboys) don't seem to understand is that there are still many satisfied Windows XP and 7 users out there - meaning: don't expect large sales of Windows 8. And those with iPads won't just replace them with a Surface - in most cases, they will buy another (iPad). We have reached a point in time where the following question is more difficult to answer than ever:
What's next for Windows and Office?

At the same time, I am asking myself "why should I upgrade to Windows 8 and Office 2013, when XP/7 and Office 2007 do everything I need them too?". Windows 95, XP, and 7 were significant upgrades. I would call Windows 8 minor, or even insignificant (for desktop users).

If that is for Microsoft why isn't it for Apple and Microsoft? Why buy an iPhone 5 when the iPhone 4 does exactly the same thing? Why buy a new Mac? Their meant to last "forever" Your logic is flawed. A companies greatness is not measured by its stock market value. Apple is just an over inflated stock in part due to its non existent dividend and because investors usually just go with whats "trending" and what will make them the most amount of money. When Apples share price collapses and believe me it will, it can't get much bigger people will say "oooh ahhh Investors worried about Apple's future" when really the investors sell to make money that how the game goes.

68k said,

What Microsoft (and Windows 8 fanboys) don't seem to understand is that there are still many satisfied Windows XP and 7 users out there - meaning: don't expect large sales of Windows 8.

I don't think there was ever any doubt about this from either Microsoft or Windows 8 fanboys. I love Windows 8, but 7 was a fantastic OS.

Although who cares about satisfied Windows XP users? Soon enough they'll barely even have a choice but to upgrade anymore unless all they do is surf the web.

"Why buy an iPhone 5 when the iPhone 4 does exactly the same thing?"
Okay, the bigger screen size makes a difference. But what else can Apple add to the iPhone platform? I bet it's getting harder to come up with ideas.

"Why buy a new Mac?"
They removed the optical drive (something I still want - yes, I still burn DVDs). What next? I will never buy a Mac - they're too restrictive. It's also time Apple came up with some new case designs.

"A companies greatness is not measured by its stock market value. Apple is just an over inflated stock in part due to its non existent dividend and because investors usually just go with whats "trending" and what will make them the most amount of money. When Apples share price collapses and believe me it will, it can't get much bigger people will say "oooh ahhh Investors worried about Apple's future" when really the investors sell to make money that how the game goes."
I agree. Apple has more competition than ever. I think Android (the open platform) will be the winner in the end.

68k said,
"Why buy an iPhone 5 when the iPhone 4 does exactly the same thing?"
Okay, the bigger screen size makes a difference. But what else can Apple add to the iPhone platform? I bet it's getting harder to come up with ideas.

"Why buy a new Mac?"
They removed the optical drive (something I still want - yes, I still burn DVDs). What next? I will never buy a Mac - they're too restrictive. It's also time Apple came up with some new case designs.

"A companies greatness is not measured by its stock market value. Apple is just an over inflated stock in part due to its non existent dividend and because investors usually just go with whats "trending" and what will make them the most amount of money. When Apples share price collapses and believe me it will, it can't get much bigger people will say "oooh ahhh Investors worried about Apple's future" when really the investors sell to make money that how the game goes."
I agree. Apple has more competition than ever. I think Android (the open platform) will be the winner in the end.

I think each has its own buyers. the iphone kind of got its niche' from ipod users. The android ecosystem got its niche' from the tech community. The windows phone got its niche' from the.... its hard to say at 3% market share, but it seems mainly people moving from other systems looking for something different/better.

yes android become on-top... but who knows how long before a company comes out with something others just cant compete with. Think BBM. It took one messaging service to make a phone sell fantastic.

68k said,
"Google seems to be falling apart at the seams."
No way. I don't agree. Google are probably "the" most innovative company. Search, Maps, Android, Documents - they have done a great job with all their products, and I can see more and more people using them in the future. The Bing division seem to just copy from Google.

Google innovative?
Online maps where already around. A search engine was also around already. (Google nowadays gives me as much craphits as Altavista used to give me, so no change over 10 years in search)
Recent year or 2, Google has been copying Bing actually. Not vice versa, Almost all new features Google search has gotten, like the wallpapers, the unlimited image scroll search and more, come from Bing.


What Microsoft (and Windows 8 fanboys) don't seem to understand is that there are still many satisfied Windows XP and 7 users out there - meaning: don't expect large sales of Windows 8. And those with iPads won't just replace them with a Surface - in most cases, they will buy another (iPad). We have reached a point in time where the following question is more difficult to answer than ever:
What's next for Windows and Office?

At the same time, I am asking myself "why should I upgrade to Windows 8 and Office 2013, when XP/7 and Office 2007 do everything I need them too?". Windows 95, XP, and 7 were significant upgrades. I would call Windows 8 minor, or even insignificant (for desktop users).


If you say people should not upgrade from WinXP, which is absolutely idiotic to even claim. As an tech guy (which i expect you are since you are on Neowin) you should never suggest an OS thats over 10 years old. Why would anyone use Win95 when WinXP was released? Would you suggest that to anyone?

If you personally want to stick with WinXP or Win7, go right ahead. You're absolutely prejudged in a way that if you'd ignore the metro crap. Windows 8 is almost identical to Windows 7.

Maybe stop being so biased. Win8 is several times faster then WinXP on WinXP designed systems. And ontop of that, WinXP is about as secure as an unlocked door. Where Win8 is a saferoom.

^^ I have used Windows 8, and I agree, it's faster. But (after getting ripped off with Vista) I just don't have the passion to upgrade.

"And ontop of that, WinXP is about as secure as an unlocked door. Where Win8 is a saferoom."
I should have stated Windows XP, with Firefox (IE shortcut deleted) and Avira Antivirus. Yes, I would definitely recommend Windows 7 over XP.

headsoup said,
Isn't it wonderful that the value of companies is in part determined by peoples' hopes and fears...

so is the value of everything.. if I had the fear that a phone I was going to buy that would break down and not work then I would value that phone less and pay less for it..

Phouchg said,

I question this statement. You'd either buy it or not, no other possibility exists.

should have just wrote "not work then I would value that phone less" - then delete rest.

Phouchg said,

I question this statement. You'd either buy it or not, no other possibility exists.

Since when is negotiation is not an existing possibility?

Lachlan said,
so is the value of everything.. if I had the fear that a phone I was going to buy that would break down and not work then I would value that phone less and pay less for it..

And it would go on... Until the world is full of fear... And everybody becomes feared of others... LOL (see the loop?)

headsoup said,
Isn't it wonderful that the value of companies is in part determined by peoples' hopes and fears...

What's your point? You speak as if you are sarcastic. What better measure do you suggest? There's no particular "objective" measure on how to value a company's performance. If there were better and more accurate methods that could be used in the modern, fast economy... They would already have been adopted. This is so far the best we can do, and everyone in the western world plays by these rules.

Sure, we could look at past performances, but what we are wanting is the future. And then hopes and fears supported by computer-aided analyses simply play a major role.

dismuter said,

Since when is negotiation is not an existing possibility?

I invite you to try go into a store (not a flea market), where fixed prices are clearly indicated with similarly fixed price labels, and attempt to negotiate with the poor salesperson.

Me at those moments - oh, you aren't happy with the price or product - haul your sorry ass elsewhere, nothing in this world was made specially for you alone, meanwhile people are forming a row behind you and getting impatient.

Does it work differently than that where you're from?

[quote=Order_66 said,]Very good article and if I were an investor I would certainly be worried.[/
quote]
No it's not a very good article. [quote]While Microsoft has proudly proclaimed that they sold 40 million licenses for the platform, it is believed that many of these sales were to OEMs and not consumers.[/quote] This statement alone is just wrong. Apple puts out that they sold 25 million iPhones over a weekend but no one questions that at all. Is that to the phone companies or to consumers (Sprint billion dollar deal)? Think about this, for all the iPhones they said they sold, every person in the world should have one. Everyone believes this but not MS. Same for android phones, 8 million a week?
[quote] upgrade friendly price of $40.00, Microsoft's revenue is likely to be less than that of Windows 7 during the same launch period as Windows 7 commanded a significantly higher premium.[/quote]
When W7 came out, MS had deals for it and it was free for people who brought computers within 6 months of it coming out. Free and a $10 difference (W7 was $50). MS stock for the last 10 years been around $21 to $34 with them bringing in record profits every year, so why would it change now?

Order_66 said,
Very good article and if I were an investor I would certainly be worried.
You say that, but I can't help thinking it'll just cause panic, I mean Microsoft aren't exactly going to drop off the face of the Earth just because Windows 8 is seen as another Vista by some people.

Order_66 said,
Very good article and if I were an investor I would certainly be worried.

It's very bad article. Microsoft's stock (MSFT) has been balancing around the 25$ mark for over 15 years. The last big dip was in 2009 (around 16$) and the last spike was around 32$ in April of this year. Every company stock has ups and downs like this.
If you really want to see a company people should be worried about, look at Sony Corporation (SNE) which has been crashing since 2000 and the company lost 95% of its value.

stm24 said,
This statement alone is just wrong. Apple puts out that they sold 25 million iPhones over a weekend but no one questions that at all. Is that to the phone companies or to consumers (Sprint billion dollar deal)? Think about this, for all the iPhones they said they sold, every person in the world should have one. Everyone believes this but not MS. Same for android phones, 8 million a week?

When W7 came out, MS had deals for it and it was free for people who brought computers within 6 months of it coming out. Free and a $10 difference (W7 was $50). MS stock for the last 10 years been around $21 to $34 with them bringing in record profits every year, so why would it change now?

TWENTY-FIVE MILLION IPHONES IN ONE WEEKEND?? what the heck have you been smoking, you need to re-revaluate your news sources dude..

Order_66 said,
Very good article and if I were an investor I would certainly be worried.


oh my Trolls will be trolling everywhere they go!

Order_66 said,
Very good article and if I were an investor I would certainly be worried.

A bit premature? Nokia's Windows phones ship for the fist time in China tomorrow. Of course, according to Google, China isn't a big market. It's my understanding that the Nokia 920 is by far the most desired phone ever to be launched in China. Don't forget Apple's iPhone only works in 2G mode on China Mobile. Nokia's phones ate the first major smartphones to offer full 3G service (and 4G when its switched on). Apple have never been able to get into China Mobile (650 million subscribers). Tomorrow (Dec 5th) we'll see what China makes of them. It's my understanding it's going to be sold out all the way through Chinese New Year.

stm24 said,
MS stock for the last 10 years been around $21 to $34 with them bringing in record profits every year, so why would it change now?

How MS can increase the profit?.
Launching a new product
Purchasing (for a cheap) other company

In this case, MS did it both and failed. So, the only solution is to rinse and repeat, MS should launch a new product soon or face a mid term problem.

smooth_criminal1990 said,
You say that, but I can't help thinking it'll just cause panic, I mean Microsoft aren't exactly going to drop off the face of the Earth just because Windows 8 is seen as another Vista by some people.

It would indeed be a disaster if MS fell of the Earth. But what this may do is wake them up. I have to say, I never like Steve Jobs, or particularly Bill Gates (pre-retirement), but clearly they were the visionaries of their companies. BG was a geek that understood how things should work and had good vision from an Executive position. That is clearly missing from MS these days. MS should put Wozniak on the payroll somewhere.

Order_66 said,
Very good article and if I were an investor I would certainly be worried.

clearly a good investor you're not. windows 8's main competition is windows. compare to the slide in marketshare of apple and you can see how wallstreet never makes any sense.