Microsoft: Windows Mobile 7 late next year

Microsoft UK head of mobility Phil Moore confirmed that we won't see Windows Mobile 7 phones on the market until late 2010.

Mobile news reports that in a Q&A session at the 'Connect!' technology summit in London recently, Moore said "It has been put back until late next year but it is definitely coming. You're going to see a lot more on Windows Mobile 7. Giving the enterprise users and consumers what they want will be part of Windows Mobile 7. You'll get flexibility on a much easier touch UI."

Moore also admitted that Microsoft is "still playing catch-up" to Apple's iPhone. "It's true, Apple caught us all napping. It launched something that was very iconic, new and unseen with a very good user interface." Moore's admission that the iPhone is leading the way in the smartphone wars is a first for Microsoft. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer famously laughed at the iPhone when it was first introduced, saying "that is the most expensive phone in the world".

In September this year, Microsoft confirmed that the current team of 1,000 developers, working on Windows Mobile 7, are planning to feature social networks as a key element of Windows Mobile 7. Since September it has been quiet on the Windows Mobile 7 front. Microsoft officials confirmed they would talk about Windows Mobile 7 at the upcoming MIX 2010 conference in March next year. Microsoft also posted what appeared to be a concept UI for Windows Mobile 7 on the Office 2010 mobile site.

Microsoft lists CES 2010, Mobile World Congress 2010 and International CTIA Wireless 2010 as upcoming events for Windows Mobile. Maybe we'll see some of Windows Mobile 7 before MIX 2010.

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Really? Too late in 2010? But my iPhone contract is up in early 2011 and I can tell you besides a new iPhone ANYTHING is in play if it's a better experience. I'm not rare in this aspect, what makes you think everyone else will be?

Well I hope MS can pull something great out of their hats thats wins back manufactuers and consumers alike. HTC has long been the largest Windows Mobile device partner for the platform and their 2010 line up heavily favouring Android pretty much sums up the sentiment of frustration from users and manufactuers alike.

WinMo has alot of positives about it, ive been using the platform for the better part of a decade now but MS dropped the ball in failing to develop an OS which kept pace with the technology and failing to capture the consumer end of the market (as for the long time these devices were largely the realm of business use). Now they are playing catch up and WinMo 7 needs to shine. The one thing at the moment WinMo has going for it is so much room for improvement.

why not just take the zuneHD OS and add smartphone functions? clearly the zune OS has a great GUI and seems to run snappy

People need to read up a bit, it seems everyone has already forgoten that the ZuneHD's OS is based off of the same version of WinCE that WinMo7 will use. WinMo6.5 still uses the older CE 5.x core. ZuneHD is on CE 6.0.

The only way Windows Mobile 7 will succeed is if they complete drop backward compatibility and make developers rewire their apps for the new version. Other wise WM 7 will never be able to escape the stylus, the one thing holding WM back.

Sure a lot of the custom UI's from companies like HTC are great and fingure friendly, but once you open an aging app, back to the stylus you go.

warwagon said,
The only way Windows Mobile 7 will succeed is if they complete drop backward compatibility and make developers rewire their apps for the new version. Other wise WM 7 will never be able to escape the stylus, the one thing holding WM back.

And what of those people who actually like to use a stylus? A finger doesn't give you a small, accurate pointer.

A stylus should be a "use where necessary" kind of thing. If you need to put your signature on something, for example. Very few people would want to use a stylus for pressing a button, or even for an onscreen keyboard. Maybe for handwriting recognition, but I always found that gimmicky personally.

You wouldn't need an input device that's precise if applications were designed for use with a finger.

I think EVERYONE is missing the point here.

Firstly the OEM plan at least a year ahead. They will only build phones that actually sell. So for now that would be Android mostly and not WM.

Next you have us early adopters. We buy phones partially with loyalty but if we are screwed over we are first to jump ship. Personally I have been a WM user for a long long time. But seeing the complete lack of innovation from MS, I am jumping to Android for my next phone.

Now for OEM's and for Early adopters, its too late to have WM7 at end of 2010. Most of use would have jumped the sinking ship by then. Weather we get back on board in future thou will depend on how innovative MS is. It will have to be a Game changer personally.

For all the millions of "other" people, they buy stuff based on the recommendation of the early adopter in the family. And anyone else will just by a Nokia.

WM7 will have to make a iPhone size change to the Mobile industry if it has any chance of recovering some market share. Even if it does, due to loyalties and such it will still take several years (contracts, and swaying of opinions) for it to recover so I really don't see WM7 as being a success. I see it as an test run to see if they can do what needs to be done and then if successful (to a degree) then WM8 might have a fighting chance.

What a doubter. You don't know if all OEM's will discontinue with WinMo forever, even if version 7 gets released by the end of the year. They'll just have to make phones for 2011, but oh well.

A lot of people like WinMo, esp. business users and people who know how to tweak to the right way, after the OEM has loaded it up with slow-ware. In fact, a good number of people at my school have WinMo smartphones. I'm always a bit surprised, but all types of people I see use it. Even my sister still uses her old T-Mobile Dash (based on WM5!) and she loves it. She's no tech geek either.

WinMo still has a chance, but the doubters just keep doubting.

I love competition, the more operating systems the better!

Microsoft - what the hell is going on? I know the fan boys are saying everything is fine but as an impartial consumer I have to say that the performance of Windows Mobile on the HD2 is awful. I was in my local O2 store (London) and the HD2 was there next to the Pre, Iphone and a few of the other contenders. Windows Mobile was slugish and jerky in its transitions compared to most in the same price range.

I'm a Windows user, I wont change unless i need to but when it comes to Mobile operating systems it seems I need to.

Edit - Why do we bother? Nothing changes, Ive had enough of them all. MS will release version 7 when they want to and it will sell because it always does. nothing learnt, money comes in and who cares.

Well even though it nicesto compare in person at a store, those display models aren't always a true representation of how these devices are in normal life. I remember seeing a really smudged up Zune HD at Best Buy, and it was frozen in it's browser when I first saw it, and it took asking an employee to reset it to see it in real working condition.

Having lots of people mess around with a device everyday could cause it to act slow or not as well, esp. if people mess around with the settings and the battery has been low.

Let's hope Microsoft is going to do what they did with Windows 7. Give a late delivery date and then release it 6 months early.

Microsoft should take Zune HD and add phone functionality. BOOM. Top selling phone.

Just chop the Windows Media Player and Intenet Explorer from the Zune and put it on Windows Mobile for starter.

That would be interesting. The Zune HD OS does look awful sharp. I haven't yet had a chance to play with one though. I really want to. haha

The only thing that I care about is that I can upgrade my TouchPro2 to Mobile 7. I'm hoping that Snapdragon isn't a min. requirement.

Also, why does every Win Mobile story always draw so many pathetic trolls? If you don't like the damn thing, STFU.

ahhell said,
Also, why does every Win Mobile story always draw so many pathetic trolls? If you don't like the damn thing, STFU.

LOL Indeed. And they're so misinformed too... Sad...

its not just facing competition from the iphone. there is android, webOS and now bada. while bada isnt out yet, it does mean samsung either, doesn't want to wait for windows M07 or they want more control over the entire design of their phones ... who knows other manufacturers might follow samsung and develop their own ... or adopt either android or bada. If there is one thing microsoft still needs to address is their laziness after they get on top ... they spent years developing the mobile windows ... then like IE they got complacent. Just because you are hot **** at the present, doesn't mean success will just come to you ... apple used to be on top. nuff said.

that being said. with this competition heating up in the mobile device OS market, this means good things for us consumers. competition drives creativity.

Well, we haven't seen anything about Bada yet (Unless I missed something). I think we have to see what that is first. It might not be a smartphone OS for all we know...

I agree that competition is a very good thing though.

Exactly. I don't mind waiting for something good either.

I don't think 6.1 was mediocre, but it was outdated and not very touch friendly. That was it's biggest issue. It appears they're putting more thought into Windows Mobile now.

People talk like it needs a rewrite, rethought from the ground up and they might just be doing that and guess what, it takes time. If they made a mistake, it may have been WinMo 6.5 taking up their valuable time. They know it needs to be something special to have a chance so they are making sure it ends up that way. Waiting sucks but it's the way it is.

Yeah, and who knows what sort of backend work just wasn't implemented or used in 6.5. It was released as a stop gap. Now they'll finalize some things and release 7. Of course this stuff takes time... I don't understand the posts that imply otherwise...

winmos a niche OS on mobile platform its the way they've made it and i don't think there's much they can do to turn that around. it's polar opposite to what iphone is which is a general consumer happy phone/platform not intended for business like winmo. i say fine bring it in 2010 if means better quality. will give 6.5 some time to shine. winmo 7 wont lose market share nor will this gain market share for reasons i state earlier.

I think it will gain market share. It looks like Microsoft is taking Windows Mobile in the right direction. We have to wait and see what it looks like though as it progresses...

I'm still genuinely astonished that people LIKE Windows Mobile, and even rate it above Android and the iPhone OS. It's just a horrendous experience, and totally out of kilter with the rest of the mobile market. The only reason I can see why WinMo7 has been put so far back is because they've realised they need to do something special to turn the product around and make it competetive again.

Like many other folks, I used Windows Mobile devices for a long while but sat and watched as the product stagnated and other companies came past with products that were devastatingly better than Windows Mobile - and Microsoft still did nothing about it. It's a shame really, especially considering they've turned around their fortunes again on the desktop and everyone is raving about Windows 7. Hopefully they'll do the same with Windows Mobile 7.

I agree. I do like Windows Mobile, but agree that it has been allowed to stagnate. I hope that Microsoft gets more in the game and makes more regular updates. Even if they rotate between major / minor, they need something each year...

Surprised? I'm surprised you think everyone is just like you. Really.

There are people that legitimately like Windows Mobile phones, and for real reasons, not marketing hype.

If you are in the technical business, WIndows Mobile phones have been brilliant tools for Years for many people.

Think outside the box a bit. First it supports a lot of basic Cell phone features that even the iPhone doesn't or didn't support, from voice recognition, handwriting recognition, to even stereo bluetooth phones going back 5 or 6 years.

Then think of the more technical peeps, that like or need to remote connect into desktop and servers on their phone, let alone run company supplied WinCE software, so they only have to carry/use one device - notice your Cable installers next time, often they are using WinMo phones and doing the remote server updates to the account, support calls, and even modem provisioning from their phone and the custom apps.

There are also the psudeo geek and corporate users that know how to use VB and can through together an application and be running it on their phone in a manner of minutes. Development for a phone does not get any easier than WinMo, seriously.

There are also people that like having Winword or Outlook in their pocket, or Powerpoint on phones with Video out, and can do presentations without taking a laptop with them.

And we could go on and on and on with 1,000 of examples of users that WinMo is more funcational for them.

(And this is not even pointing out that as a platform and architecture, WinCE/WinMo is more advanced than Droid or the watered down version of OS X on the iPhone. WinMo always has had security, pre-emptive multi-tasking, and has a very strong kernel design that is ahead of anything else out there currently.)

thenetavenger said,
Surprised? I'm surprised you think everyone is just like you. Really.

There are people that legitimately like Windows Mobile phones, and for real reasons, not marketing hype.

If you are in the technical business, WIndows Mobile phones have been brilliant tools for Years for many people.

Think outside the box a bit. First it supports a lot of basic Cell phone features that even the iPhone doesn't or didn't support, from voice recognition, handwriting recognition, to even stereo bluetooth phones going back 5 or 6 years.

Then think of the more technical peeps, that like or need to remote connect into desktop and servers on their phone, let alone run company supplied WinCE software, so they only have to carry/use one device - notice your Cable installers next time, often they are using WinMo phones and doing the remote server updates to the account, support calls, and even modem provisioning from their phone and the custom apps.

There are also the psudeo geek and corporate users that know how to use VB and can through together an application and be running it on their phone in a manner of minutes. Development for a phone does not get any easier than WinMo, seriously.

There are also people that like having Winword or Outlook in their pocket, or Powerpoint on phones with Video out, and can do presentations without taking a laptop with them.

And we could go on and on and on with 1,000 of examples of users that WinMo is more funcational for them.

(And this is not even pointing out that as a platform and architecture, WinCE/WinMo is more advanced than Droid or the watered down version of OS X on the iPhone. WinMo always has had security, pre-emptive multi-tasking, and has a very strong kernel design that is ahead of anything else out there currently.)

+1

Seeing how they're doing with Win7 and the Zune HD, even the 360's new UI is good imo as well. I don't doubt they'll show something good soon.

GP007 said,
Seeing how they're doing with Win7 and the Zune HD, even the 360's new UI is good imo as well. I don't doubt they'll show something good soon.

Agreed.

The mobile market is evolving very fast and people are changing phones every 1/2 years, so I don't think they are late. If they come up with something good and can seduce the masses with some great advertisement then they're up for good sales. Don't forget that for new buyers what counts is NOW, not the market state one year ago.

darkmanx21 said,
What you say is true, but why have they been sitting on their hands for 2+ years?

Just to make sure the entire WM7 is accomodating what ever it wants to push away other competitors..
ZuneHD + HTC HD2 combination is gonna worth with WM7 OS

guruparan said,
Just to make sure the entire WM7 is accomodating what ever it wants to push away other competitors..
ZuneHD + HTC HD2 combination is gonna worth with WM7 OS

Probably trying to throw in Microsoft Surface Lite?

darkmanx21 said,
What you say is true, but why have they been sitting on their hands for 2+ years?


Maybe because an OS doesn't write itself, especially when you're refreshing the entire system. Everyone wanted MS to just scrap WM6 and make something new, well they did exactly that but obviously it took some time, there is no magic involved in building operating systems.

When WebOS was released no one cared about how long it took to develop, same thing for Android. What people care about is how well it runs when it is available, end of story.

E.Fahd said,
The mobile market is evolving very fast and people are changing phones every 1/2 years, so I don't think they are late. If they come up with something good and can seduce the masses with some great advertisement then they're up for good sales. Don't forget that for new buyers what counts is NOW, not the market state one year ago.
Exactly, people aren't as attached to their mobile OS so MS certainly has a chance still.

That said, they can't wait forever. The introduction of App stores as a selling feature will mean many users feel "locked in" to an ecosystem so MS doesn't want to be late to the game in the consumer space because by the time they arrive some users may be less inclined to swap.

Anyway in theory MS should be able to offer some pretty damn compelling features, especially if they can integrate it with XBox live properly. A ket thing I would love is to have arcade titles ported to the mobile OS and possibly an option when buying them to have a multi device license so you can play the same game on a PC, XBox or Mobile and have save data sync to a server somewhere ect. Certainly that would get my interest.

chaicka said,


Probably trying to throw in Microsoft Surface Lite?

We dont need Surface lite....but a pretty good version of Silverlight integrated INTO the OS will fix everything out.. :-D

darkmanx21 said,
What you say is true, but why have they been sitting on their hands for 2+ years?

Who says they've been doing this? They pushed out 6.5, which has who knows how many unimplemented features (Works in progress), and are still working on 7, which should finalize all of their work... I don't think they've been sitting around doing nothing at all.

Smigit said,
That said, they can't wait forever. The introduction of App stores as a selling feature will mean many users feel "locked in" to an ecosystem so MS doesn't want to be late to the game in the consumer space because by the time they arrive some users may be less inclined to swap.

Good point. I think Microsoft can pull it off, but some people may be less inclined to scrap the apps they have purchased, etc.

I'd much rather see Microsoft take however long they need to bring out a solid product than to hurriedly rush out a botch job that doesn't live up to anyone's expectations and dooms WM for good.

anewhope said,
I'd much rather see Microsoft take however long they need to bring out a solid product than to hurriedly rush out a botch job that doesn't live up to anyone's expectations and dooms WM for good.

Exactly.

I am not sure why you say windows phones as "finished"..Vista had a bad reputation at first..microsoft took 3yrs and gave a nice Windows 7...its sells best & works best.

So obviuosly, seeing the high-focus from MS itself, they will change the game easily.
Pushing ZuneHD type interface, fast & responsive apps , with power of Windows CE is bet to be winning.There are thousands of companies & developers who use it in corporate/business

guruparan said,
I am not sure why you say windows phones as "finished"..Vista had a bad reputation at first..microsoft took 3yrs and gave a nice Windows 7...its sells best & works best.

So obviuosly, seeing the high-focus from MS itself, they will change the game easily.
Pushing ZuneHD type interface, fast & responsive apps , with power of Windows CE is bet to be winning.There are thousands of companies & developers who use it in corporate/business

In the 3rd quarter of this year sales of MS phones fell by 205 and their smartphone market share has dropped below 10%, they are in serious trouble. Also Android is free Windows Mobile costs $25, why pay for something that's worse.

Yes..we know WM dropped marketshare..because, in past 2 years iphone, blackberry, android, now palmOS are into market gaining momentum..
MS was keen to get right with windows 7...
If Windows mobile 7 will be better than iphone, android & consumers will really go for it...Microsoft just need to make a heavy push as it did for windows 7.
Have you ever seen HTC HD in action?, I personally use wm 6.5.1 from xda forums..which is really nice imo.
Games, Apps & touch friendly UI is wat needed from WM..nothing else.

We already know Palm OS is finished, Palm might as well throw in the towel now.

See how that works? If Palm was still pushing their old mobile OS, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

guruparan said,
I am not sure why you say windows phones as "finished"..Vista had a bad reputation at first..microsoft took 3yrs and gave a nice Windows 7...its sells best & works best.

So obviuosly, seeing the high-focus from MS itself, they will change the game easily.
Pushing ZuneHD type interface, fast & responsive apps , with power of Windows CE is bet to be winning.There are thousands of companies & developers who use it in corporate/business

What it did is just an attempt to fix a failure. Nothing innovative, nothing shocking, nothing stunting.

If Google is able to put off with its upcoming Chrome OS as what Apple did, innovative, user-friendly, ease-of-use, fun, shockingly good... do you think Windows 7 will still be a hit? Do you think netbooks or whatsoever devices that comes in that segment will be running Windows 7?

thealexweb said,


In the 3rd quarter of this year sales of MS phones fell by 205 and their smartphone market share has dropped below 10%, they are in serious trouble. Also Android is free Windows Mobile costs $25, why pay for something that's worse.


You ever stop to think that maybe it's sales went down in the 3Q because, uhh, maybe, jeee, IT DIDN'T HAVE A NEW WM PHONES ON SALE AT ALL?

WM 6.5 sales will show up in 4Q.

And why pay? Because why get something and do the work tweaking it and so on when MS is doing it and supporting it/fixing it for the price?

guruparan said,
Have you ever seen HTC HD in action?

Actually just had a run through with the HD2 yesterday. Superb hardware, very average OS. The default browser no pinch and zoom. Pretty laggy UI also, which is very weird considering the underlying hardware specs...

chaicka said,
If Google is able to put off with its upcoming Chrome OS as what Apple did, innovative, user-friendly, ease-of-use, fun, shockingly good... do you think Windows 7 will still be a hit? Do you think netbooks or whatsoever devices that comes in that segment will be running Windows 7?

Chrome OS is just from ubuntu based..and also Google is gonna have the hardware vendor choose what works with chrome OS..

Windows 7 is other way around..it works from netbook till 8GB quadcore machines..
And chrome is WEB only OS..so its not gonna push away windows soon...if thats the condition, MS will come with cloud only OS , bcos they already have the right ecosystem & services

jasondefaoite said,
Actually just had a run through with the HD2 yesterday. Superb hardware, very average OS. The default browser no pinch and zoom. Pretty laggy UI also, which is very weird considering the underlying hardware specs...

Ya true...i meant the specs of HTC HD2 + UI, performance from ZuneHD will solve the issue....

jasondefaoite said,
Actually just had a run through with the HD2 yesterday. Superb hardware, very average OS. The default browser no pinch and zoom. Pretty laggy UI also, which is very weird considering the underlying hardware specs...

You obviously didn't use it or didn't actually try the browser. Opera Mobile on the HD2 supports pinch zooming.

guruparan said,
Yes..we know WM dropped marketshare..because, in past 2 years iphone, blackberry, android, now palmOS are into market gaining momentum..
MS was keen to get right with windows 7...
If Windows mobile 7 will be better than iphone, android & consumers will really go for it...Microsoft just need to make a heavy push as it did for windows 7.
Have you ever seen HTC HD in action?, I personally use wm 6.5.1 from xda forums..which is really nice imo.
Games, Apps & touch friendly UI is wat needed from WM..nothing else.

For everyone who says have you seen HTC HD/HTC HD2 in action. HTC deserves more acknowledgment for that phone than MS does. Look at HTC Hero and find out how their Sense UI integrates much better with Android rather than WinMo.

thealexweb said,
We already know Windows Phone is finished, MS might as well through in the towel now.

I think you win the "Ridiculous Comment of the Month" Award... Congrats!

chaicka said,
What it did is just an attempt to fix a failure. Nothing innovative, nothing shocking, nothing stunting.

If Google is able to put off with its upcoming Chrome OS as what Apple did, innovative, user-friendly, ease-of-use, fun, shockingly good... do you think Windows 7 will still be a hit? Do you think netbooks or whatsoever devices that comes in that segment will be running Windows 7?

Clearly you don't understand what the Chrome OS is... It isn't an OS replacement at all...

mrp04 said,
You obviously didn't use it or didn't actually try the browser. Opera Mobile on the HD2 supports pinch zooming.

yeah I did use it. The default browser was IE, correct? Does that have pinch and zoom? Nope!

And I'm aware you could download some software to enable P&Z across all of the software on the phone. Obviously there must be a license/patent issue stopping HTC here.

I'm guessing you agree the performance of the OS, given the hardware specs was pretty poor, since you didn't mention that.

Windows mobile needs a complete revamp. Hopefully version 7 will be it. The more competition in this space the better for the consumers.

M_Lyons10 said,

Clearly you don't understand what the Chrome OS is... It isn't an OS replacement at all...

I understand it isn't an OS replacement, but it's heading the right direction of what some of the consumers want - simplicity & ease of use. Best if it's low priced.

In Asia, there are many users who want something cheap and simple to use, just the basic functions and not something too fanciful. There are many developing countries in Asia. Though there are plenty of users who can afford a full-fledged Windows 7 Ultimate, there are also another group who would rather spend on a netbook that's cheap, simple and not loaded with tons of fanciful stuffs that they don't need.

I don't see how WinMo is even relevant anymore. We have the iPhone OS, Android, and WebOS which are all very modern, intuitive, and innovative. Symbian is also getting refreshed, probably before WinMo 7 comes out. All of these are also moving very fast and by the time WinMo 7 comes out, it'll be obsolete. Maybe the iPhone caught them off guard, but they've had over 2 years to respond and they haven't, and everyone else has.

I doubt it will be obsolete when it comes out.
Surely, they are way behind from others now, but if they put up a really good OS with lots of features and a refreshing touch UI, the wait won't matter.

ajua said,
I doubt it will be obsolete when it comes out.
Surely, they are way behind from others now, but if they put up a really good OS with lots of features and a refreshing touch UI, the wait won't matter.

What good OS to talk about when it's based on Windows. Unless Microsoft turns it back to the drawing board and comes up with a fresh OS solely for mobile phones that ain't based off Windows.

If Apple can do it, what's holding Microsoft back with its massive resources.

MrA said,
I don't see how WinMo is even relevant anymore. We have the iPhone OS, Android, and WebOS which are all very modern, intuitive, and innovative. Symbian is also getting refreshed, probably before WinMo 7 comes out. All of these are also moving very fast and by the time WinMo 7 comes out, it'll be obsolete. Maybe the iPhone caught them off guard, but they've had over 2 years to respond and they haven't, and everyone else has.


And Maemo?

I wouldn't say Symbian is exactly moving fast...if anything they are in the exact same shoes MS are but without companies such as HTC at least working to add gloss to the exterior of the OS.

I know it's been updated but I think Symbian is on it's way out in the not too distant future. It honestly doesn't seem to make much sense to me for Nokia to pursue both that and Maemo in the long term.

chaicka said,
If Apple can do it, what's holding Microsoft back with its massive resources.


Microsoft's biggest problem is its size. When you have to run every stupid little decision through a bunch of committees ("No single one of us is as dumb as *all* of us"), it slows things down and often stifles vision. Apple designers and ultimately, Jobs, has despotic power over decision-making, which cuts a lot of the BS overhead out of the equation.
Plus, you also have to realize just how many different devices and types of customer there exists in the Microsoft ecosystem. Trying to make everyone happy and let everyone do what they want, while at the same time not stepping on anyone's toes is a complex process. It's nothing like building a brand new pretty toy (albeit a well-designed and technologically relatively impressive one) for a new market of people that want to just send text messages, f**k around on Facebook, and otherwise burn through time.

chaicka said,
What good OS to talk about when it's based on Windows. Unless Microsoft turns it back to the drawing board and comes up with a fresh OS solely for mobile phones that ain't based off Windows.

If Apple can do it, what's holding Microsoft back with its massive resources.

Windows CE is not the same thing as Windows.

You do not know what you're talking about.

MrA said,
I don't see how WinMo is even relevant anymore. We have the iPhone OS, Android, and WebOS which are all very modern, intuitive, and innovative. Symbian is also getting refreshed, probably before WinMo 7 comes out. All of these are also moving very fast and by the time WinMo 7 comes out, it'll be obsolete. Maybe the iPhone caught them off guard, but they've had over 2 years to respond and they haven't, and everyone else has.

That's just silly. When they release an updated version it will compete with what else is out there. I've heard nothing bad about Windows Mobile 6.5, and while the other OS's are trying to "catch up" on features Windows Mobile already has them...

chaicka said,

What good OS to talk about when it's based on Windows. Unless Microsoft turns it back to the drawing board and comes up with a fresh OS solely for mobile phones that ain't based off Windows.

If Apple can do it, what's holding Microsoft back with its massive resources.

Oh yes, because the iPhone OS isn't based off of anything else that Apple has done... /sarcasm...

And why would Microsoft scrap everything they have done for Windows Mobile? It is feature rich, it just isn't pretty... LOL That's easy enough to fix... And doesn't in any way require they scrap anything but UI...

MioTheGreat said,

Windows CE is not the same thing as Windows.

You do not know what you're talking about.


Yes, it's not "based on Windows", but at least he was right in that Windows CE is no dedicated mobile OS.

M_Lyons10 said,

Oh yes, because the iPhone OS isn't based off of anything else that Apple has done... /sarcasm...


I think what he was trying to say was that Windows CE is a platform for not only mobile phones, while the iPhone has the OS designed for phones. No, wait, even better. That specific phone MODEL. Since it's only on Apple's iPhones. This is of course an advantage over Windows CE by itself, letting Apple take precise and fine tuned shortcuts everywhere throughout the OS, while MS has to design something more generic. It may not be perfect for that specific phone model, but it'll work with that other model with slightly different features too. This is both Microsoft's power and problem.

ricknl said,
And you will use it forever.

No, but MS is playing catch up while Google have 2010 for other things.

Microsoft will need to develop a hell of a mobile OS for this to be successful, leaping forward two generations in one.

Another update to 6.5 will probably hit early 2010, looking at how fast newer builds of 6.5.x are poping up on xda. So it's not like the device makers won't have something to play with at all till WM7.

The END of 2010?

Sorry Microsoft, but I'm calling game over now; the end of 2010 is WAY too late and you have SERIOUSLY dropped the ball here. Windows Mobile might have the edge when it comes to capability, but it's clear from the sales of the iPhone and Android that people want usability more than capability, and WM is sadly lacking in the usability.

Umm nooo. Windows Mobile 6.5, 6.5.1 and 6.5.3 have greatly improved on user usability and also have device manufacturers in the likes of HTC and Samsung. Microsoft just need to advertise Windows Mobile and they are sure to pick up on sales. I highly doubt that the vast majority even know what OS their phone runs on. It's more about looks and fashion hence why the iPhone sells great even though it lacks serious features.

There is no such thing as game over, you don't just buy a phone and keep it forever, people change phones all the time. All Microsoft have got to do is come out with a very good product like Windows 7 was and it will sell loads. Its not as if they have much competition, just expensive Apple and we don't care about your privacy Google.

Excuse me, but I don't really understand your comment. Maybe Windows Mobile is just that late because of the number of improvements? I'm pretty sure they will try to compete as much as possible with the iPhone and Android...

And, as Billus already mentioned, the usability has improved a lot! Improving usability shouldn't only be done by Microsoft, HTC (and others) could improve their phones as well...

You can't really blame MS if some device maker in the end slaps on some poorly performing shell that slows down your phone etc. Same as with OEM PC makers and all the junk they install on your new PC. MS doesn't make the phones, so while WM7 could be RTM in say, May, device makers won't have phones out till Sept. Not much you can do about that though.

A really cool looking UI that's easy to use and smooth is all WM7 needs, it's got the features, the capability, and the support form device makers as well.

We could very well get a 6.5.3 release on new phones or updates to current 6.5 phones in early 2010 anyways. And that's something.

You're both right and wrong. Sure people replace their devices every few years BUT, they need OEM's to be using WM7 to be able to buy them, and the OEM's (one of which I know a HELL of a lot more about what's upcoming than anyone on here does) are releasing less and less WM devices), and more Android ones.

WM7 being brilliant won't help Microsoft if the OEM's have given up. These people plan their devices a year or more ahead, and they can't be screwing around with delays on the OS's. They'll just go with what IS available and popular instead.

Well, not sure about how users in each country or region feels. But one thing for sure for those around me, and I dare to say, most in the Asia region, the first 5 questions one would ask when they hear the phone runs on Windows xxx.

1. Will it crash/BSOD?
2. Does it hang or self reboot when on a call?
3. Is it prone to virus infection?
4. Is it slow?
5. Can I install other applications?

Go figure why Win-based phones never hit mainstream... even after all these years of effort by Microsoft's thousands of developers?

FloatingFatMan sure know the business model of asian mobile phone manufacturers well.

chaicka said,
Well, not sure about how users in each country or region feels. But one thing for sure for those around me, and I dare to say, most in the Asia region, the first 5 questions one would ask when they hear the phone runs on Windows xxx.

1. Will it crash/BSOD?
2. Does it hang or self reboot when on a call?
3. Is it prone to virus infection?
4. Is it slow?
5. Can I install other applications?

Go figure why Win-based phones never hit mainstream... even after all these years of effort by Microsoft's thousands of developers?

FloatingFatMan sure know the business model of asian mobile phone manufacturers well. ;)


That's BS, even dumbphones like nokias to sony ericssons hang/crash/freeze and or restart on their own for stupid reasons, I've seen it with everything from the free phones they hand out right up to pricy nokias and SEs, And slow? If these smart ass OEMs had half a brain they wouldn't try to jam in god knows what to underpowered phones and then sell them off.

You ever wonder why the WM phones have so many unofficial roms and so on being worked on or made all the time? It's to get rid of the bloat that samsung or whoever else puts on them.

chaicka said,
1. Will it crash/BSOD? - Crash yes...all the phones do..BSOD - no
2. Does it hang or self reboot when on a call? - NO
3. Is it prone to virus infection? - Yes...jailbroken iphone too have it.
4. Is it slow? - it was slow..but with the latest devices in market, its not slow
5. Can I install other applications? - hell lot of apps


Smartphones are very hard to penetrate in asian countries..i live in india..vast majority just wanted a phone to speak and send sms.

chaicka said,
Well, not sure about how users in each country or region feels. But one thing for sure for those around me, and I dare to say, most in the Asia region, the first 5 questions one would ask when they hear the phone runs on Windows xxx.

1. Will it crash/BSOD?
2. Does it hang or self reboot when on a call?
3. Is it prone to virus infection?
4. Is it slow?
5. Can I install other applications?

Go figure why Win-based phones never hit mainstream... even after all these years of effort by Microsoft's thousands of developers?

FloatingFatMan sure know the business model of asian mobile phone manufacturers well. ;)

I think your region in Asia must have got all the rejected phones... cause where i am from... I have never heard such BS.. stop spreading fact less info around the web

Well we've heard that before. It was game over for Apple in the 90's.

For some years now there has been a 'game over for Microsoft' articles every year....just like 'year of desktop linux'.

dimithrak said,
I think your region in Asia must have got all the rejected phones... cause where i am from... I have never heard such BS.. stop spreading fact less info around the web

I think he's suggesting its a Windows stigma, not Windows Mobile.

Axon said,
I think he's suggesting its a Windows stigma, not Windows Mobile.


India / China etc, people widely use feature phones (shipped by LG, samsung, Nokia (where Symbian based phones are majority))...Smartphones are less used & mostly bought by people only from major cities..

Asian countries are just developing, still there are people around me in city who prefer just to basic versions of Nokia devices. Come and visit the countries before you say me my comment as BS.

dimithrak said,


I think your region in Asia must have got all the rejected phones... cause where i am from... I have never heard such BS.. stop spreading fact less info around the web

I am not sure where you are from..if you are from Singapore, Japan etc..then what you say is right...but get into countries like Thailand, indonesia, india, interior china, you know how it is...

guruparan said,
Smartphones are very hard to penetrate in asian countries...


Nothing a bottle of wine and a bottle of Wet won't fix...

Caneo said,
Well we've heard that before. It was game over for Apple in the 90's.

For some years now there has been a 'game over for Microsoft' articles every year....just like 'year of desktop linux'.


Actually, it WAS game over for Apple in the 90's. Even getting Steve back didn't save them; not until they went cap in hand to Bill Gates and asked for help, which Microsoft did.

FloatingFatMan said,

Actually, it WAS game over for Apple in the 90's. Even getting Steve back didn't save them; not until they went cap in hand to Bill Gates and asked for help, which Microsoft did.

FFM, I have seen your comments and they are always quite biased MS had to help! Letting their only competitor die was not in their interests. AFAIK Steve and MS came to Apple's help at the same time and MS provided only money while Steve was the one who changed the direction of the company.

chaicka said,
Well, not sure about how users in each country or region feels. But one thing for sure for those around me, and I dare to say, most in the Asia region, the first 5 questions one would ask when they hear the phone runs on Windows xxx.

1. Will it crash/BSOD?
2. Does it hang or self reboot when on a call?
3. Is it prone to virus infection?
4. Is it slow?
5. Can I install other applications?

Go figure why Win-based phones never hit mainstream... even after all these years of effort by Microsoft's thousands of developers?

Well, thos are really silly questions... I've not experienced ANY of those on my Windows Mobile phone ever... lol

FloatingFatMan said,
Actually, it WAS game over for Apple in the 90's. Even getting Steve back didn't save them; not until they went cap in hand to Bill Gates and asked for help, which Microsoft did.

I'm not sure what you're referring to... What did Microsoft do for Apple?

FloatingFatMan said,
The END of 2010?

Sorry Microsoft, but I'm calling game over now; the end of 2010 is WAY too late and you have SERIOUSLY dropped the ball here. Windows Mobile might have the edge when it comes to capability, but it's clear from the sales of the iPhone and Android that people want usability more than capability, and WM is sadly lacking in the usability. :(

Many phone manufacturers customize Windows Mobile to be more usable in various ways, and the manufacturers seem to like this ability as they can market their UI's and it's an added benefit to using their phones... Windows Mobile is just backend in a lot of phones... I don't think that it's game over for Microsoft at all either. They're releasing what appear to be solid releases for Windows Mobile (In 6.5 and later), and now are working on 7, which looks like it will be good as well. I look forward to seeing what else they announce in the coming months.

@M_Lyons10: Smartphone OEM's are in the process of making less WM devices and more Android devices. If Microsoft don't pull their fingers out of their backsides, by the time they supply them with WM7, it'll be far too late.

You don't have to believe me if you don't want to, but I *do* have some insider knowledge here. ;)

Microsoft are on a deadline, and if they miss it, the OEM's will NOT wait.

FloatingFatMan said,
@M_Lyons10: Smartphone OEM's are in the process of making less WM devices and more Android devices. If Microsoft don't pull their fingers out of their backsides, by the time they supply them with WM7, it'll be far too late.

You don't have to believe me if you don't want to, but I *do* have some insider knowledge here. ;)

Microsoft are on a deadline, and if they miss it, the OEM's will NOT wait.


And what makes you think OEM's don't know what WM7 will be like already? You think MS doesn't share details with them till it goes RTM? Seriously?

M_Lyons10 said,
I'm not sure what you're referring to... What did Microsoft do for Apple?


Ok, Really?

Microsoft Invested in Apple several 100 million dollars, to help keep them a float. They also promised to keep Office for Mac in development for several more years.

If Microsoft hadn't stepped in, Apple might have tanked in the mid 90s, as they were embattled in lawsuits and Apple was barely clinging on to a market or even credibility as System 7,8,9 were garbage OSes. Mac System pre-OS X, had a very aged memory management concept, and had no concept of pre-emptive multitasking, along with several other 'important' features that were available in Windows for many years.


Apple is a great company for Microsoft. Microsoft makes money from its investment (ownership in Apple). Microsoft also makes a ton of $$ now from Mac sales, as almost all Mac users buy Microsoft Office for Mac and many also buy a copy of Windows for BootCamp.

Here is some history for people that would like to forget:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1...97/MSMACpr.mspx

GP007 said,
And what makes you think OEM's don't know what WM7 will be like already? You think MS doesn't share details with them till it goes RTM? Seriously?


I know EXACTLY what Microsoft have shared with at least one of the OEM's, actually; I'm just restricted as to what I'm allowed to say.

What early releases they or may not have seen though, is irrelevant when it comes to releasing devices. OEM's need to plan ahead, and as Microsoft have pushed back the release date again, so must the OEM's do the same.

The one I know of is NOT amused in the slightest by this, as it screws over their entire release schedule for 2010. Devices they were planning to release by Q2 now have to be bumped to Q4 at the earliest, and possibly to Q1 2011 depending on how late Microsoft leave it.

It always amuses and amazes me that many so-called technology literate people believe that an Operating System is 'the bit you can see'. No. That is just 'the Shell'. An Operating System needs to do a LOT MORE than just provide a snazzy user interface.

Take a look under the hood of Apple and Google 'Operating Systems' and you'll find - a very dark and mysterious place full of cobwebs and little else. As Operating Systems go they are simply rubbish. Lets see what Win7 has in store.