Microsoft's ban of nudity on SkyDrive questioned

Microsoft launched the new "Modern" look of its SkyDrive cloud-based services last week. However, questions about what can and cannot be uploaded to SkyDrive folders and accounts, even if those folders are private, remain.

Earlier this year, a German man was banned from SkyDrive, along with all of the services linked to his Microsoft online account, due to uploading four partially nude pictures in his private folder.  Microsoft has stated in its EULA that users cannot upload "nudity of any sort, including full or partial human nudity, or nudity in nonhuman forms such as cartoons, fantasy art or manga" in their SkyDrive account.

The EULA doesn't allow users to upload any "pornography", which means you can't install your legally purchased porn movie on your private SkyDrive account. SkyDrive also doesn't allow any files that have "vulgarity" or "profanity", meaning that, in theory, your SkyDrive account could be banned if you upload a document with just one swear word inside. There's also a ban on "gratuitous violence", which means you could possibly be banned if you upload a movie of your gameplay in, for example, the "M" rated Halo series from Microsoft.

Venture Beat tried to find out why Microsoft is so restrictive but their article said that the company's spokesperson would not answer any specific questions. Instead it sent out a statement which said, in part:

Any content we find to be in violation of our Code of Conduct is subject to removal — and in rare cases, can lead to temporary or permanent shutdown of an account. We understand no system is perfect. That’s why we are constantly improving our ability to ensure the privacy, security and availability of our users’ data around the world.

Other cloud-based services seem to have more open policies on storing content on their servers. Dropbox, Box and SugarSync all basically have EULAs that state that users cannot break the law in terms of uploading content in their accounts.

Users of Google Drive do have quite a few specific content restrictions. However, according to a statement from a Google spokesperson, it appears that if people don't share content on their Google Drive account with others, they are free to upload adult themed material. The statement says in part, " ... a user’s private content is private. This means that unless a user publishes content that could be reported by another user for violation of our Abuse Program Policies, we would have no reason to investigate or take action against a particular account."

So the big question remains: Why is Microsoft so strict with its SkyDrive content policies, even for private account folders, and why won't the company offer more clarity about what can and cannot be uploaded to SkyDrive in order to avoid any issues with its customers? With the launch of Windows 8 coming in just over two months time, perhaps it's time for Microsoft to offer some more guidance on its SkyDrive agreements.

Source: Venture Beat

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This isn't about porn, or about taking a stand on it. Whatever your views on that, the issues are much more serious.

The problems with this policy and EULA are:
- Breadth. The blanket ban on "nudity" is over-reaching. A copy of Botticelli's "Birth of Venus" or almost any book on classical art could get you banned.
- Vagueness. What is "partial nudity"? Male nipples? Even if, as a precaution, you photoshop pants onto Michaelangelo's David, would he still be "partially nude" and in breach of this term.
- Privacy. Microsoft scans your images, even ones intended for yourself alone. So don't upload the draft of your textbook on classical sculpture because they can still go looking at the pictures in it
-Pervasiveness. Skydrive is "baked into" upcoming versions of Windows and Office. It is hard to avoid. Syncing will take place even when you don't expect it.Be careful both with the emails you send, and even the ones you receive.
Disproportinonality. A breach on one service can get you banned on all, losing all your data.

For a legal agreement, the drafting is simply dreadful in its width and lack of clarity. It doesn;t even need to be like that - other services are less restrictive and still in business. Avoid this one, if you can, whatever your views on porn. The above, in combination, seem to me to be a worse evil.

I just thought you wanted your porn back, Microsoft! I found the porn on your Bing servers, the internets best porn indexer, and then I uploaded back to you again on your Skydrive servers. Instead of thanking me your are closing my account? Its *your* porn! Hypocrites.

Why is Microsoft so strict with its SkyDrive content policies, even for private account folders, and why won't the company offer more clarity about what can and cannot be uploaded to SkyDrive in order to avoid any issues with its customers?

Because the policies were written for uploading shared content and fall under the Windows Live EU License and Usage policies.

As for the German example, they claim it was 'simple' nudity/porn, when I have heard it was child porn. That is quite illegal, and would even cause problems for Microsoft.

There are also local, state, federal, international, and foreign state laws that Microsoft must COMPLY with, and nudity and profanity are illegal in many places, that make Microsoft liable.

So what DOES everyone here suggest they do? Have the entire SkyDrive service legally shut down by some city council in goofville America for violation of storage of profane words?

This is not as easy as it sounds, which is a surprise to all the armchair lawyers out there.

Let's all make sure Microsoft knows how you feel, but remember, the new Skydrive policies for the Skydrive App and WP7 and Windows 8 have not been published.

Also remember, that for just profanity and nudity, there are Apps on WP7 that store content on Skydrive that do both, and there have been no end user issues.

After giving this more thought, it's simply conditioning. Every facet of our lives are being intruded on more and more. This is just one more step towards that end goal. When ALL your choices tell you they will spy or be your Big Brother, and any meaningful number accept it, they've won another battle. In this war, we, the people, are losing our asses, and the worst part are the morons that stupidly help it along without ever giving it serious thought. It's not right that any company even looks at, much less judges what you should have. Just because some accept this nonsense, doesn't mean we all have to.

Hahaiah said,
After giving this more thought, it's simply conditioning. Every facet of our lives are being intruded on more and more. This is just one more step towards that end goal. When ALL your choices tell you they will spy or be your Big Brother, and any meaningful number accept it, they've won another battle. In this war, we, the people, are losing our asses, and the worst part are the morons that stupidly help it along without ever giving it serious thought. It's not right that any company even looks at, much less judges what you should have. Just because some accept this nonsense, doesn't mean we all have to.


OK, so in your fight in this war, Lets say you run a business that has a FREE service that allows almost Anonymous users to login to YOUR servers and store files. One of your users, a real sicko, decides to store CHILD PORN on your hard drives. Now if YOU get caught with that on YOUR hardrive, YOUR business will be looking at LEGAL problems and countless lawsuits and investigations about why you have this on your servers. Then you will have to take the brunt of the LEGAL case because your user base is anonymous. Sounds like YOU are spending MONEY defending yourself and Pedophiles! Is this the WAR you are talking about?

Please get real. There is no WAR. This is business. Do you pay for this service? No?! then you have nothing to argue about. It's a free service and they can do whatever they want to protect themselves. You are totally free to move to another service to store your files.

I'll be nice and not comment on the horrible pit that porn is and how it will destroy you.

Hahaiah said,
After giving this more thought, it's simply conditioning. Every facet of our lives are being intruded on more and more. This is just one more step towards that end goal. When ALL your choices tell you they will spy or be your Big Brother, and any meaningful number accept it, they've won another battle. In this war, we, the people, are losing our asses, and the worst part are the morons that stupidly help it along without ever giving it serious thought. It's not right that any company even looks at, much less judges what you should have. Just because some accept this nonsense, doesn't mean we all have to.

Where have you been the last 20 years?

I guess the only thing more surprising would be that you would be so offended and yet be a fan and supporter of Google services, that intrude and control your life more than any other entity in the history of humankind.

Grow up. M$ isn't doing anything for "free", it's a business strategy and revenue generated through ads alone is something even you can understand. You make M$ money simply by using their email service.

Using the "child porn", "terrorism" or any other boogey man for that matter is ridiculous and is used to selectively target and justify whatever they like. Sad that you don't see this for what it is.

Hahaiah said,
Grow up. M$ isn't doing anything for "free", it's a business strategy and revenue generated through ads alone is something even you can understand. You make M$ money simply by using their email service.

Using the "child porn", "terrorism" or any other boogey man for that matter is ridiculous and is used to selectively target and justify whatever they like. Sad that you don't see this for what it is.

Did I say Microsoft is doing this for FREE? No, they are providing it to you for free! It's a business , any offering to the end user for free has a business motive. That business motive is to make a profit. So they will protect that profit from being wasted on court and lawyer fees.
There is not one web site or service that is not out there to make money. I thought that was a given.

It's not the boogey man, It's called MORALS. I hope there are more people in the world offended by porn then not. Porn truly is an addiction! Prove me wrong and stop!

Plus I truly do not understand the need to store inappropriate files or files of any kind an an Online services. They will be cataloged, indexed and you will be profiled. So now your are profiled as a pervert! Not something to be proud of!

What if those nudes/partial nudes have a filename like IMG3452612.jpg? How would someone know that was a nude image?
Does this mean that some Microsoft employee is checking out your photographs in your PRIVATE folder?

akav0id said,
What if those nudes/partial nudes have a filename like IMG3452612.jpg? How would someone know that was a nude image?
Does this mean that some Microsoft employee is checking out your photographs in your PRIVATE folder?

content scanned using software called PhotoDNA

Typical M$. Deliver a decent product and completely screw it up with stupid policies. I'm done, I don't want to risk losing all my data and other accounts (if I had any) just because THEY feel it was justified. FU M$. Again. I'm so glad I just use them as a backup and don't tie anything else to the account. Just love the useful idiots that support this Big Brother behavior, you people disgust me and deserve each other.

Well done Microsoft! It's a slippery slope to porn. Stop it before it starts. Righteous! If other cloud providers want to host nudity, that's their problem (and the user's).

I don't like this.
I got a ***load of pictures of all my ex's there and I got nowhere else to put it.
Oh wait, I also got dropbox.
Nevermind.

I don't get why they're checking people's private folders anyway... I mean, sure EULA's and TOS' exist for that reason, but still?

You know, after thinking about this. It just killed Windows 8 and Skydrive for me. All my accounts are connected. If I put a picture of a family member in Skydrive wearing a bikini at the beach, I could lose access to my Windows 8 computer, Phone and Xbox 360 (the most important for me). I thought about using some encryption on it, but why should I have to do that when the files I put in Skydrive in private folders are supposed to be "private"? With the deep connection that Skydrive Has with windows 8, I cant risk it.

Michelangelo's David?
The Venus de Milo?
Botticelli's Birth of Venus?

Almost any textbook on classical art would get you banned.

Note to the clueless philistines who drafted this EULA - it is meant to be a LEGAL AGREEMENT. It is not good enough to say that you will use common sense in enforcing it. It should clearly define what is and is not permitted. Otherwise users are left completely in the dark as to what may or may not be considered acceptable. These absurd EULA terms have made you a laiughing stock. Ask a grown-up to help you rewrite them.

"nudity in nonhuman forms" - if you upload a picture of a farm, be careful to photoshop little trousers onto all the cows sheep and horses.

Well there goes my Pedobear video collection !

on a serious note though if its their rules then fine whatever..
although they should make it SUPER clear because a lot of TOS rules
on popular services are rather lenient.

I'd say the larger issue is that 'private' does not mean 'private'. If they can take any action at all based on the contents of the private folder, no matter what the action, then clearly it isn't private. So it's actually a lie to call it private. And I normally don't use words lie lying easily, but there is no way around it here. This is very bad indeed.

What is scary is how Microsoft could (or is) using it. Pragmatically speaking, pornography is not a issues, specially child pornography, because Pedobears have enough incentives to hide their collection, via encryption, hiding it or another ways. The problem is, for example, if could be used for spy our accounts, for example tracking terrorists, to use a sky mask could be enough to be tagged.

PhotoDNA pretty much is useless and it could involve a manual control, or you could say, Microsoft is eavedropping your pictures.

Microsoft said that they are tested it with 2 billion of image without a single false positive, imho, it sounds pretty fishy.

Brony said,
PhotoDNA pretty much is useless and it could involve a manual control, or you could say, Microsoft is eavedropping your pictures.

Microsoft said that they are tested it with 2 billion of image without a single false positive, imho, it sounds pretty fishy.


Very fishy. How exactly is the PhotoDNA software supposed to tell the difference between a male nipple and a female one? Or a moob and a boob?

roadwarrior said,

Very fishy. How exactly is the PhotoDNA software supposed to tell the difference between a male nipple and a female one? Or a moob and a boob?

Ya or a thunt ?

So wait, they are encouraging the use of cloud storage for your pictures, documents, and music. But at the same time, they are perma-banning your account for having porn on it?

I am sorry Microsoft but WHAT THE F**CK? MAKE UP YOUR MIND, YOU EITHER WANT ME TO STORE PICTURES ON THE CLOUD OR YOU DO NOT.

This is interesting considering that window phone photos auto upload to a folder on skydrive. There's a lot of people out there sexting these days...

Microsoft has stated in its EULA that users cannot upload "nudity of any sort, including full or partial human nudity, or nudity in nonhuman forms such as cartoons, fantasy art or manga" in their SkyDrive account.? ... Microsoft is very Hippocratic much of Microsoft game are extreme Violent,and have incredible nudity and sexual contact and Sony as well .

Damn. I had to delete a folder with roughly 20 images in it right now. I don't want to risk losing my xbox/zune accounts and WP applications, though I do think this rule shouldn't count for private folders.

ooops... better delete all my topless beach photos...
anyway the people who implemented this are just a bunch of hypocrites - they are most probably pr0n addicts and closet perverts.
what stops them doing the same thing on your system when you log in Windows 8 with the same live ID?

Nadja said,
ooops... better delete all my topless beach photos...
anyway the people who implemented this are just a bunch of hypocrites - they are most probably pr0n addicts and closet perverts.
what stops them doing the same thing on your system when you log in Windows 8 with the same live ID?

Doing what?

Though I have yet upload any content that breaks the ToS on my own personal Skydrive, this is enough to drive me towards alternative services instead.

thommcg said,
Oh no, my face, hands, arms and legs are clearly exposed in some pictures...

The only way to be safe is to wear a burqa.

How would Skydrive technically control who uploads what? They would need to look at each photo/browse files unless they have created an algorithm which tracks boobies in photos and puts a flag next to your account

mk1990 said,
How would Skydrive technically control who uploads what? They would need to look at each photo/browse files unless they have created an algorithm which tracks boobies in photos and puts a flag next to your account

PhotoDNA. Read.

What is "partial nudity"? (See article second paragraph).
It's supposedly different and wider than "total nudity".
So does this ban apply to any flesh showing at all? Ridiculous undefined term.

gb8080 said,
What is "partial nudity"? (See article second paragraph).
It's supposedly different and wider than "total nudity".
So does this ban apply to any flesh showing at all? Ridiculous undefined term.

I would assume it means that it doesn't have to show the whole body to be banned, just like nipples showing would do it.

Matthew_Thepc said,

I would assume it means that it doesn't have to show the whole body to be banned, just like nipples showing would do it.

That's the problem, you have to guess what they mean. And your assumption may or may not be correct.
What about male nipples? Ok or banned???

gb8080 said,
What is "partial nudity"? (See article second paragraph).
It's supposedly different and wider than "total nudity".
So does this ban apply to any flesh showing at all? Ridiculous undefined term.

yeah it does not make sense say you were wearing shorts and t-shirt this would be partial nudity also.

They probably regret offering 25GB to everyone and are trying to scare people off. This is the only reason why I don't use skydrive and it would be really handy...

I don't want to risk every purchase I made on xbox live though.

This proves that Microsoft is breaking privacy laws. What you have in your private folders is your own business. Now if the government has a subpoena then that is another story. Microsoft shouldn't be looking at our ****. What happens if your company uploads trade secrets to share within their company? This is completely against privacy laws because how would Microsoft know you have nudity if the filename to a photo is 12345.jpg? They would have to open the file and view it. Even if there is software out there that intelligently scans files by opening them and detecting nudity, this is still against privacy laws.

jesseinsf said,
This proves that Microsoft is breaking privacy laws. What you have in your private folders is your own business. Now if the government has a subpoena then that is another story. Microsoft shouldn't be looking at our ****. What happens if your company uploads trade secrets to share within their company? This is completely against privacy laws because how would Microsoft know you have nudity if the filename to a photo is 12345.jpg? They would have to open the file and view it. Even if there is software out there that intelligently scans files by opening them and detecting nudity, this is still against privacy laws.

they scan it with automated scanners. and if Google's not being sued for essentially selling your emails to advertisers, I highly doubt Microsoft's going to get sued for using automated software like PhotoDNA to remove violations of SkyDrive's TOS.

it's not against privacy laws because when you signed up for SkyDrive you agreed that you wouldn't upload nude pictures. Microsoft has every legal and (AFAIC) moral right to run automated scans to ensure that the TOS is being followed.

Matthew_Thepc said,

they scan it with automated scanners. and if Google's not being sued for essentially selling your emails to advertisers, I highly doubt Microsoft's going to get sued for using automated software like PhotoDNA to remove violations of SkyDrive's TOS.

it's not against privacy laws because when you signed up for SkyDrive you agreed that you wouldn't upload nude pictures. Microsoft has every legal and (AFAIC) moral right to run automated scans to ensure that the TOS is being followed.


This is the reason why journalists prefer sensationalist (and often misleading titles). People who do not read the article. Just read the damn title and whine. I am obviously not talking about you, Matthew_Thepc.

Matthew_Thepc said,

they scan it with automated scanners. and if Google's not being sued for essentially selling your emails to advertisers, I highly doubt Microsoft's going to get sued for using automated software like PhotoDNA to remove violations of SkyDrive's TOS.

it's not against privacy laws because when you signed up for SkyDrive you agreed that you wouldn't upload nude pictures. Microsoft has every legal and (AFAIC) moral right to run automated scans to ensure that the TOS is being followed.

you keep making the same claims all overe this story but let me ask you one thing.. Can you show me where in the TOS it warns people that their privacy will be invaded and that their private data will be subjected to some PhotDNA crap ?
Furthermore if you gonna keep saying PhotoDNA to ever single person in here that make same comment, care to provide some references on what the hell that crap is ? Why do you keep expecting everyone to be aware of this and
then keep copping an attitude about it ?

I am Not PCyr said,

you keep making the same claims all overe this story but let me ask you one thing.. Can you show me where in the TOS it warns people that their privacy will be invaded and that their private data will be subjected to some PhotDNA crap ?
Furthermore if you gonna keep saying PhotoDNA to ever single person in here that make same comment, care to provide some references on what the hell that crap is ? Why do you keep expecting everyone to be aware of this and
then keep copping an attitude about it ?


my apologies for the attitude; in retrospect I could have been much more polite about it.
here's a source: http://www.neowin.net/news/mic...o-skydrive-privacy-concerns

As many of you suspected, this involves Microsoft Research's PhotoDNA project, which is a pretty amazing piece of automated software that helps law enforcement and ISPs track down child pornography.

and:


Without giving any specific details, a Microsoft spokesperson says that they have "advanced mechanisms to ensure that users abide by [their] Code of Conduct,"

well at least Dropbox doesn't care. So bye bye Skydrive. No point. Dropbox. only one I bother to use. don't need some snark snooping in on what I'm doing.

Hmm, now that I think about it, I am going to close my Dropbox and skydrive account. Fcuk some company telling me what i can and cant do with my account.

Phebson said,
Hmm, now that I think about it, I am going to close my Dropbox and skydrive account. Fcuk some company telling me what i can and cant do with my account.

I'm pretty sure Dropbox doesn't scan or read your private data. I use Dropbox all the time, and there are no such restrictions or intrusions like what Microsoft's doing with SkyDrive.

If we have private folders how would Microsoft even know we have nude pictures in it unless they are spying on there users course.

In which case can we sue Microsoft?

Maybe the word private means something us to Microsoft.

gate1975mlm said,
If we have private folders how would Microsoft even know we have nude pictures in it unless they are spying on there users course.

In which case can we sue Microsoft?

Maybe the word private means something us to Microsoft.


*facepalm* read through the comments before you post your own, they use a modified version of PhotoDNA to automatically scan files. so, no, you can't sue Microsoft ;D

Matthew_Thepc said,

*facepalm* read through the comments before you post your own, they use a modified version of PhotoDNA to automatically scan files. so, no, you can't sue Microsoft ;D

Cool PhotoDNA can scan for Tits and Ass

gate1975mlm said,

Cool PhotoDNA can scan for Tits and Ass


yes, yes it can
would be very interesting to see what it would return if it were turned into a crawler and ran on the Internet O.O

Matthew_Thepc said,

yes, yes it can
would be very interesting to see what it would return if it were turned into a crawler and ran on the Internet O.O

Best. Porn. Search machine. Ever.

Microsoft could ask a 5USD/EUR a month subscription fee for it and quit making any other product.

Never trust cloud storage, just keep it local as well at least.

There is a choice out there, all eggs in one basket never the best idea. Whatever playground you use, play by the rules or go elsewhere.

Not sure how I feel about the nudity thing, obviously not all porn but MS probably wants to keep things clean no matter what. More attractive to vast majority of consumers out there perhaps ?

The internet is a sea of porn but not sure why lots of people would fill their cloud storage with it if that is what they think might happen.

Does Skydrive have open links ?

Maybe they don't want to be a host to something very popular, porn.

private data should be private data, I wouldn't trust this could service, the last thing you need is algorithms crawling through your data looking for stuff.

abysal said,
private data should be private data, I wouldn't trust this could service, the last thing you need is algorithms crawling through your data looking for stuff.

+1000

People seem to be overlooking the fact that Microsoft's prying into your private data. I wouldn't trust SkyDrive after this.

and god knows if MS has a an agreement with USA gov to pipe data through them etc
Like for searching for terrorist activity etc.
I already seen proof recently some ISP's redirect their customers to FBI servers.
A lot of people caught on to this by doing a simple traceroute
and guess what the first hop was ? lol

simplezz said,

+1000

People seem to be overlooking the fact that Microsoft's prying into your private data. I wouldn't trust SkyDrive after this.

Ya, no...

You need to learn how to comprehend what you are reading, and stop the idiotic assumptions.

A bot pass is done on anything that stored that could be flagged, where Microsoft would be held legally responsible.

So yes, a bot is going to check a photo when it is uploaded, but after it is in your account it is locked. Just like Email is checked for spam before it goes in your inbox, but is unreadable once it is in your inbox.

People seem to forget that there are laws in the USA and around the world that hold the 'storage provider' liable for content. So if you store kiddie porn, Microsoft has a responsibility to protect themselves legally. As your kiddie porn could literally get the entire SkyDrive pulled offline if Microsoft didn't screen for it.

They are required by LAW to screen for this crap in the majority of the world.

There is also the legal ramifications that a city council in Mayberry USA could get SkyDrive pulled offline for finding a nude picture that is viewable to their citizens, or uploaded by one of their citizens if they have a dogcatcher type law that bans it.


So take up your rant against lawmakers, NOT Microsoft.

srprimeaux said,
Keep your nudes on an external drive, noob cakes.

You have something against internal hard drives or something ?
My 1 Terabyte WD Green drive hold a lot of porn chief

This is ridiculous. If they are offering storage for you then you should be able to put whatever you want in there and no snooping around in your files either. They are making it real difficult to not trust cloud services.
The fact they won't allow nudity goes to show they are looking at your files. Not good. I really want to like you Microsoft but you always make it so hard.

boydp182 said,
This is ridiculous. If they are offering storage for you then you should be able to put whatever you want in there and no snooping around in your files either. They are making it real difficult to not trust cloud services.

no, if they're offering storage (and especiall free storage) it's commonplace across the industry to have a TOS which limits what can be uploaded. saying that most cloud services don't limit what can be uploaded is just BS.

The fact they won't allow nudity goes to show they are looking at your files. Not good. I really want to like you Microsoft but you always make it so hard.

please try reading through the comments before you post your own, it's been clearly pointed out that they use a version of PhotoDNA to automatically scan files.

Matthew_Thepc said,
it's been clearly pointed out that they use a version of PhotoDNA to automatically scan files.

are you actually berating this guy for not seeing your -> speculation <- about PhotoDNA ?
Well damn I'll have to be more careful next time i comment lol
I'll make sure to skim through the article and search for your user name
and check for the "Facts" you posted.
Gimme a break buddy lol

I am Not PCyr said,

are you actually berating this guy for not seeing your -> speculation <- about PhotoDNA ?
Well damn I'll have to be more careful next time i comment lol
I'll make sure to skim through the article and search for your user name
and check for the "Facts" you posted.
Gimme a break buddy lol

Do you honestly believe they aren't using automated software to sift through the petabytes of data? Or are we to think they have an army of chimps dedicated to around the clock surveillance, manually going through every single file in hopes of finding nudity in order to score another banana?

I am Not PCyr said,

are you actually berating this guy for not seeing your -> speculation <- about PhotoDNA ?
Well damn I'll have to be more careful next time i comment lol
I'll make sure to skim through the article and search for your user name
and check for the "Facts" you posted.
Gimme a break buddy lol


lol
but it's not speculation; IIRC there was a Neowin article where Microsoft said that they were using PhotoDNA to scan it.

Good for them, about time more companies made a stand on this issue. I can understand how it would be unpopular. Very well, then use a different service. It's all about choice.

tmaxxtigger said,
Good for them, about time more companies made a stand on this issue. I can understand how it would be unpopular. Very well, then use a different service. It's all about choice.

So you want companies to ban nudity but you also want them to allow it in the name of choice?

tmaxxtigger said,
Good for them, about time more companies made a stand on this issue.

Yeah, because nudity is an unnatural and immoral behaviour that deserves to be prohibited.

KSib said,
SugarSync, Dropbox, Google Drive - just use something else.

ok, I'll just use a local hard drive. faster access and I decide what is and isn't deleted

timster said,

ok, I'll just use a local hard drive. faster access and I decide what is and isn't deleted


Yes, as if no one knows that and they're not discussing about cloud storage.

timster said,

ok, I'll just use a local hard drive. faster access and I decide what is and isn't deleted

Then the drive fails and you're SOL

theyarecomingforyou said,
Not if you're using Windows 8's Storage Spaces.

what someone talking about a windows 8 feature that's not Metro, uhm, Modern....

Yes! This is why I want Win8 on my desktop!
I've lost about 300 of my 15000 video files to bit-rot already.....

sorry for being off topic, but this caught my eye!

How does Microsoft know what is displayed on my privately uploaded photos ? What about words in private docs ?

... just a few days ago they were trashing Gmail for reading email content to show in search results.

TheLeviathan said,
How does Microsoft know what is displayed on my privately uploaded photos ? What about words in private docs ?

automated scanning, with PhotoDNA & other automated technologies

... just a few days ago they were trashing Gmail for reading email content to show in search results.

no, they're trashing GMail for reading email content and then effectively selling your private emails to advertisers to give you "better targeted ads".
there's a huge difference - Microsoft doesn't use your private emails to make money. GMail does.

Matthew_Thepc said,

Microsoft doesn't use your private emails to make money. GMail does.

And how do you know that? I don't trust anyone with my data. I always encrypt one way or another. PGP for email, and 7z passworded for everything else.

The fact that Microsoft is even scanning all your private cloud files should set off alarm bells.

simplezz said,

And how do you know that?

maybe because...it's a public, and well-known, fact?
From the GMail privacy FAQ page @ http://support.google.com/mail...py?hl=en&answer=1304609:


Gmail scans and processes all messages using fully automated systems in order to do useful and innovative stuff like filter spam, detect viruses and malware, show relevant ads, and develop and deliver new features across your Google experience.


I don't trust anyone with my data. I always encrypt one way or another. PGP for email, and 7z passworded for everything else.

OK, if you encrypt your email then that's great! I was talking about the average GMail user, who doesn't go through the trouble of encrypting every email the send and compressing & password-securing their files.
The fact that Microsoft is even scanning all your private cloud files should set off alarm bells.

everyone does it. even Google openly admits to it: from the Google Privacy Policy @ http://www.google.com/policies/terms/ -

When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our Services

what does that mean? Well, let's say you're an author. you sync your "Books in Progress" folder with Google Drive so that you can work on your books anywhere. That's all great, until Google figures out that you're a great author. So, since you've uploaded your content to Google Drive, they have a (and these are their words, not mine) "worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content" so long as they're used for "the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones". So what if they decide they need to get more users, and they want to use your novel? They make use of that worldwide license, and distribute your book with a "sign up for GMail" message on the cover, and say it's for the purpose of promoting their Services. And they can still do that even after you delete your Google Account or remove your books from GDrive. And it's not only Google that holds the license - if one of their "partners" is a book publisher, the license extends to the publisher too.

^ of course, that's like an extremely worst-case situation that would almost never happen, but it is a possibility with their privacy policy.

now let's look at the SkyDrive privacy policy @ http://windows.microsoft.com/e...microsoft-service-agreement -


Except for material that we license to you, we don't claim ownership of the content you provide on the service. Your content remains your content. We also don't control, verify, or endorse the content that you and others make available on the service.

You control who may access your content. If you share content in public areas of the service or in shared areas available to others you've chosen, then you agree that anyone you've shared content with may use that content. When you give others access to your content on the service, you grant them free, nonexclusive permission to use, reproduce, distribute, display, transmit, and communicate to the public the content solely in connection with the service and other products and services made available by Microsoft. If you don't want others to have those rights, don't use the service to share your content.

You understand that Microsoft may need, and you hereby grant Microsoft the right, to use, modify, adapt, reproduce, distribute, and display content posted on the service solely to the extent necessary to provide the service.


SkyDrive has a similar sentence to the GDrive privacy policy, where it says that Microsoft has the right to "use, modify, adapt, reproduce, distribute, and display content posted on the service", but the difference is they can only do that "solely to the extent necessary to provide the service."


you were saying, sir?

Matthew_Thepc said,

automated scanning, with PhotoDNA & other automated technologies

no, they're trashing GMail for reading email content and then effectively selling your private emails to advertisers to give you "better targeted ads".
there's a huge difference - Microsoft doesn't use your private emails to make money. GMail does.


I don't see any difference myself. In both cases it is automated software scanning your data. One is for security purposes the other is for keyword based advert targeting, but the actual process and supposed "invasion of privacy" is the same regardless.

It's really sad how large US companies are implementing such overtly puritanical policies with absolutely no regard for personal liberties. Nudity and profanity are perfectly legal and Microsoft should not be using its services to impose moral values upon its customers.

I'm all for banning harassment, child pornography, racist abuse and other illegal activities but this is unacceptable, especially given Microsoft's influence within the marketplace (SkyDrive accounts are associated with Microsoft accounts, which are used for Windows 8 user accounts).

theyarecomingforyou said,
It's really sad how large US companies are implementing such overtly puritanical policies with absolutely no regard for personal liberties. Nudity and profanity are perfectly legal and Microsoft should not be using its services to impose moral values upon its customers.

I'm all for banning harassment, child pornography, racist abuse and other illegal activities but this is unacceptable, especially given Microsoft's influence within the marketplace (SkyDrive accounts are associated with Microsoft accounts, which are used for Windows 8 user accounts).

As many people outside the US like to say, "There's more to the world than just the US!!!" With that said, they're not the only big companies in the world that do this. It should be sad on a global level really.

Unless you're once again trying to make this about the US...

dead.cell said,
Unless you're once again trying to make this about the US...

The US has historically been a lot more repressed in terms of nudity than Europe and US companies tend to reflect that, regardless of the legality of such content. The FCC's tough stance on the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction" and Romney's proposal for an internet porn filer are two high profile examples of that and there are countless others.

If you want to provide examples of non-US western companies adopting similar policies feel free, as I was making a casual observation and am happy to be proven wrong.

No, you're aiming for an argument of US vs. EU. You've done it before, and you're doing it again. It's these stupid little insinuations you're making, derailing the topic entirely so you can carry on this debate.

You can go ahead and tempt me into this stupid argument of yours, but I'm not biting. I'm just trying to share how utterly disgusted I am with this behavior.

These forums are becoming hostile enough as it is, I'm not sure why you feel the need to push the argument further once more with your condescending tone of us "poor helpless backwards Americans".

dead.cell said,
No, you're aiming for an argument of US vs. EU.

I didn't mention the EU at all. There are plenty of non-EU western countries, like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

dead.cell said,
You can go ahead and tempt me into this stupid argument of yours, but I'm not biting. I'm just trying to share how utterly disgusted I am with this behavior.

Don't try to turn this around. You stated that US companies aren't the only ones to engage in such behaviour, yet offered nothing to substantiate your claim. You then made it personal by attacking my motives and my character. It's ironic that you claim the forums are "becoming hostile enough" yet it was you that personally attacked me.

I will happily respond if you wish to make an intellectual contribution to the discussion at hand. I'm not interested if you just want to attack my character.

I wasn't talking about nudity specifically, so much as I was the abuse of personal liberties as you mentioned here: "...with absolutely no regard for personal liberties." That is not something that primarily occurs with US companies, but globally along with governments that allow this sort of behavior to take place legally as well.

Odom said,

That actually existed for years, until recently...

really...? I can't find anything on google for that.... only redcloud security.... that's the closest thing....

Count yourself lucky if you have done this and still have your account. I was not so lucky, my account was permanently disabled with absolutely no warning, 10 year old account, and I'd been using Xbox Live Gold for 4 years.

I contacted Microsoft many times, they would not reactivate my account and they also told me they have no way of transferring my Xbox Live account to another Live ID (but they would if my account wasn't disabled).

TheNay said,
That's why I went with Google Drive I used SkyDrive and they deleted my photos

Chances are pretty likely Google does the same exact thing with their Drive service - they just don't advertise it. But, you can be sure they are running the same type of image recognition software of all of the images you're uploading.

If, your not paying for the service nor are you being Forced to use such service such as Skydrive, QUIT WHINING AND MOANING, just take your porn elsewhere !

Microsoft really doesn't have to provide any Cloud service for anyone, GET OVER IT !

Crimson31756 said,
If, your not paying for the service nor are you being Forced to use such service such as Skydrive, QUIT WHINING AND MOANING, just take your porn elsewhere !

Microsoft really doesn't have to provide any Cloud service for anyone, GET OVER IT !

Not all nudity is porn and if MS want a popular service that customers can rely on they should make it easy to use. Also, as others have pointed out, this will become a bigger issue now that MS want us to start logging into Windows with our Microsoft Accounts.

The German referred to in the article was (from memory) a professional photographer who uploaded legitimate photos that contained some nudity. When his account was closed he couldn't use his Windows Phone and lost all the apps he's bought through the account. That's a problem.

Crimson31756 said,
If, your not paying for the service nor are you being Forced to use such service such as Skydrive, QUIT WHINING AND MOANING, just take your porn elsewhere !

Microsoft really doesn't have to provide any Cloud service for anyone, GET OVER IT !

And what about the people why pay for extra space ? are they allowed to moan ?

Artwork aside, as a weightlifter, I'm definitely keeping progress pictures of myself, which entail arms, chest, back, side shots, legs, and progress of this great booty I'm forming hahah.

Porn? Hardly. It's a shame some people are so hell bent against nudity...

Crimson31756 said,
If, your not paying for the service nor are you being Forced to use such service such as Skydrive, QUIT WHINING AND MOANING, just take your porn elsewhere !

NOTHING is for free, you pay with your money, your time or via another way.

poor reasoning and its getting old..
anything tech related we here that crap time after time
i don't have the energy to point out how little sense your comment makes
and by the way, I will install anything I want and bitch and moan about it all i want.
YOU GET OVER IT !
Don't like it ? then doesn't listen to my complaining
No one is forcing you to read my complaints..
LOL see what i did there ?
i turned your crafty logic around on you hahaha
enjoy

I am Not PCyr said,
poor reasoning and its getting old..
anything tech related we here that crap time after time
i don't have the energy to point out how little sense your comment makes
and by the way, I will install anything I want and bitch and moan about it all i want.
YOU GET OVER IT !
Don't like it ? then doesn't listen to my complaining
No one is forcing you to read my complaints..
LOL see what i did there ?
i turned your crafty logic around on you hahaha
enjoy

Ah, the "entitled" generation - where everything is owed to them and "F--- you, I'll bitch and you'll f---ing like it!" How the English language cries whenever one of your generation even comes near a keyboard.

You're not being forced to use it. If you don't like the rules you have to play by to use the service, roll up your sleeves, crack open a book and make your own. Then you can host all the porn you like and not have to bitch about it.

just uploaded a pic of a girls breasts, going to see if they notice... i havent used hotmail in 8 years so i don't mind if they close it.

rippleman said,
just uploaded a pic of a girls breasts, going to see if they notice... i havent used hotmail in 8 years so i don't mind if they close it.
No they have better things than to go around checking every user's folder to see if they have anything uploaded that violates their EULA. They have a specially designed algorithm called PhotoDNA that matches your files against a database of known child pornography. As for your hotmail account that you haven't used in 8 years, its already closed because Microsoft permanently deletes your account after 360 days of inactivity.

rippleman said,
just uploaded a pic of a girls breasts, going to see if they notice... i havent used hotmail in 8 years so i don't mind if they close it.

That's REAL INTELLIGENT of you, Yes Sir, real intelligent !

Your going to come back and Whine and Moan that MS closed your account and you want others to fell sorry for you ? NOT HAPPENING !

gzAsher said,
They have a specially designed algorithm called PhotoDNA that matches your files against a database of known child pornography.

I guess that will work if users are storing child pornography on SkyDrive.

obviously its what i meant... and yes the account is still open since i just uploaded to that name....

gzAsher said,
No they have better things than to go around checking every user's folder to see if they have anything uploaded that violates their EULA. They have a specially designed algorithm called PhotoDNA that matches your files against a database of known child pornography. As for your hotmail account that you haven't used in 8 years, its already closed because Microsoft permanently deletes your account after 360 days of inactivity.

as stated in the post, i have not used it in 8 years since moving to gmail... so if they close it, its cool....

Crimson31756 said,

That's REAL INTELLIGENT of you, Yes Sir, real intelligent !

Your going to come back and Whine and Moan that MS closed your account and you want others to fell sorry for you ? NOT HAPPENING !

timster said,

I guess that will work if users are storing child pornography on SkyDrive.

well, they said it was a modified version of PhotDNA, so theoretically it could be programmed to find almost any kind of pornography

rippleman said,
just uploaded a pic of a girls breasts, going to see if they notice... i havent used hotmail in 8 years so i don't mind if they close it.

It's not just your hotmail account you loose. That is basically your MS PAssport identity and you loose any service related to that as well. Unless Hotmail is the only service you use, of course.

Odom said,

It's not just your hotmail account you loose. That is basically your MS PAssport identity and you loose any service related to that as well. Unless Hotmail is the only service you use, of course.

The word is. LOSE.

Crimson31756 said,

That's REAL INTELLIGENT of you, Yes Sir, real intelligent !

Your going to come back and Whine and Moan that MS closed your account and you want others to fell sorry for you ? NOT HAPPENING !


One should not attempt to insult the intelligence of another when one has yet to grasp even elementary-level spelling, grammar, and proper use of capitalization.

heres a question thats bugging me... does someone on the other end scan everything you upload? If not, how do they know whats in your folder?

rippleman said,
heres a question thats bugging me... does someone on the other end scan everything you upload? If not, how do they know whats in your folder?

Software. The process is automated.

rippleman said,
heres a question thats bugging me... does someone on the other end scan everything you upload? If not, how do they know whats in your folder?

as has been pointed out before, they use software called PhotoDNA that auto-scans your photos.

rippleman said,
heres a question thats bugging me... does someone on the other end scan everything you upload? If not, how do they know whats in your folder?

I don't understand this either. How can automated software determine if a photograph contains a nude or partially nude person in it? Either their software is extremely sophisticated, or they're spying on users' content. Either way, it's not a service I want to use.

simplezz said,

I don't understand this either. How can automated software determine if a photograph contains a nude or partially nude person in it? Either their software is extremely sophisticated, or they're spying on users' content. Either way, it's not a service I want to use.


My thoughts exactly.

simplezz said,

I don't understand this either. How can automated software determine if a photograph contains a nude or partially nude person in it? Either their software is extremely sophisticated, or they're spying on users' content. Either way, it's not a service I want to use.


It's extremely sophisticated software. They also use it to track and apprehend people who traffic child pornography. it doesn't catch everything as soon as you upload it though. I accidentally had some uploaded to skydrive but deleted it before anything ever happened.

simplezz said,

I don't understand this either. How can automated software determine if a photograph contains a nude or partially nude person in it? Either their software is extremely sophisticated, or they're spying on users' content. Either way, it's not a service I want to use.

To answer your question...

aliens.jpg

onedrummer2401 said,

It's extremely sophisticated software. They also use it to track and apprehend people who traffic child pornography. it doesn't catch everything as soon as you upload it though. I accidentally had some uploaded to skydrive but deleted it before anything ever happened.

Wait, are you saying you accidentally uploaded child porn? Pedobear does not approve.

rippleman said,
heres a question thats bugging me... does someone on the other end scan everything you upload? If not, how do they know whats in your folder?

good point.
one good reason i don't like this crap and any cloud crap
its all bs.

jakem1 said,

Software. The process is automated.

I have a feeling that the software flags the account and offending photos and is sent for manual review.

nvllsvm said,
I have a feeling that the software flags the account and offending photos and is sent for manual review.

Not even.

The core of the technology came from MSR China, with the help of various institutions and law enforment agencies, they refined the algorithms enough to determine if enough of the photo is inappropriate.

From the Microsoft newsroom:

In 2009, Microsoft, working with Dartmouth College, developed PhotoDNA, a technology that aids in finding and removing some of the “worst of the worst” images of child sexual exploitations from the Internet. Microsoft donated the PhotoDNA technology to the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC), who established a PhotoDNA-based program for online service providers to help disrupt the spread of child pornography online. Over the next year, Microsoft, working with NCMEC, implemented a gradual rollout of PhotoDNA on Bing, SkyDrive and Hotmail services. In early 2011, Facebook joined Microsoft in sublicensing the technology for use on its network. It is our hope that other online service providers will follow Microsoft and Facebook's lead in adopting this game-changing technology.

I uploaded photos of my schlong one time this or last year, photos were mixed up with others from my phone I had no idea. Logged in one day and and they had disabled my account completely. Had to contact them and a nice lady told me this was a no no, re-enabled it and said my account can be disabled permanently for doing it again

And with Windows 8 pushing skydrive for photo storage this is what I fear will happen. User syncs phone to pc, picture folder syncs to skydrive and then one day they can't log into their Windows Tablet/Hybrid/PC because the account is suspended.

Sadelwo said,
And with Windows 8 pushing skydrive for photo storage this is what I fear will happen. User syncs phone to pc, picture folder syncs to skydrive and then one day they can't log into their Windows Tablet/Hybrid/PC because the account is suspended.

So, why don't you tell us Win7 users when is Win7 End-Of-Life is going to be then ?

I, won't be upgrading to Win8, I think it's a POS anyway ! Am use to Win7 and will be for a long time, I still use Win Xp Pro now and then. Ahh, the good old days !

Crimson31756 said,

So, why don't you tell us Win7 users when is Win7 End-Of-Life is going to be then ?

I, won't be upgrading to Win8, I think it's a POS anyway ! Am use to Win7 and will be for a long time, I still use Win Xp Pro now and then. Ahh, the good old days !


why don't you just search when Win7 end-of-life going to be then?

forgot to mention, the photos were uploaded to a private non-sharing folder so nobody could've seen them at all. I wasn't sharing them or anything

I don't think they disabled my Hotmail account completely, just the Skydrive, if I remember correctly.

Still though, being able to backup my download and pictures folders in Windows 8, I and many others would probably inevitably end up with a disabled account again at some point

Sadelwo said,
And with Windows 8 pushing skydrive for photo storage this is what I fear will happen. User syncs phone to pc, picture folder syncs to skydrive and then one day they can't log into their Windows Tablet/Hybrid/PC because the account is suspended.

You should always create a local account to log into your windows 8 machine in case of a problem, however if it works like most other domain services than your log info is cached on your local machine so you should be fine for a month or so.

Crimson31756 said,
I, won't be upgrading to Win8, I think it's a POS anyway ! Am use to Win7 and will be for a long time, I still use Win Xp Pro now and then. Ahh, the good old days !
Do you enjoy driving your Model T to work, too?

Dang! I probably have to remove the subset of my /b/ folder from there that I had decided to upload once.

Don't want to end up loosing my Hotmail/Outlook, Xbox and probably some other linked accounts : /

Coolicer said,
Dang! I probably have to remove the subset of my /b/ folder from there that I had decided to upload once.

Don't want to end up loosing my Hotmail/Outlook, Xbox and probably some other linked accounts : /

Yeah, I've got the Information Library up on mine and not only does that have guides on "how to get chicks unconscious" it also has a bunch of other questionable "how tos". . .

PGHammer said,
It's a legal/regulatory issue - depending on where you live, nudes, even of yourself, are illegal.
In cases like that, companies normally make a open generic set of rules, and then follow it up with you must follow your local laws. Not try to enforce the minority laws on everyone.

PGHammer said,
It's a legal/regulatory issue - depending on where you live, nudes, even of yourself, are illegal.

Does that mean any that in photos of women you store on skydrive, they must be wearing a burqua - because otherwise the laws of Iraq and Islam are being broken?

dvb2000 said,

Does that mean any that in photos of women you store on skydrive, they must be wearing a burqua - because otherwise the laws of Iraq and Islam are being broken?


And don't you dare upload a document criticizing the government in any repressive countries.

dvb2000 said,

Does that mean any that in photos of women you store on skydrive, they must be wearing a burqua - because otherwise the laws of Iraq and Islam are being broken?

If that's the law where you live then yes. Microsoft doesn't make the law but they do have to make sure everyone follows it to cover their own ass. I don't see anything wrong with what the EULA says. Use common sense - I know, that might be asking a bit much these days - and you'll never have an issue.

Sranshaft said,

If that's the law where you live then yes.


That's the thing though, they aren't just "enforcing the law", they seem to be enforcing the lowest common denominator of the law in any given country. The criteria for nudity in the US varies widely from location to location, yet they seem to be basing it on the most restrictive laws they can find. Even worse than Facebook's issues with breastfeeding pics (which is totally legal in public in EVERY state).

roadwarrior said,

That's the thing though, they aren't just "enforcing the law", they seem to be enforcing the lowest common denominator of the law in any given country. The criteria for nudity in the US varies widely from location to location, yet they seem to be basing it on the most restrictive laws they can find. Even worse than Facebook's issues with breastfeeding pics (which is totally legal in public in EVERY state).

By enforcing the lowest common denominator of the law they simplify the process and make sure, regardless of the particulars for a specific location, they are following said law. It just makes things easier on their end.

Is it fair or appropriate to lump everyone under a blanket EULA? Probably not, but that's the price people have to pay when using a service that caters to such a wide field of users.

PGHammer said,
It's a legal/regulatory issue - depending on where you live, nudes, even of yourself, are illegal.

(comments not directed at PGHammer or anyone specifically)

Does not even matter. MS is providing the service to most as "free" so as a free service you do not have any real rights to complain. Just store your porn on the free 2 gig of space drop box gives you. If you pay for the sky drive service then you need to take it up with MS but it is still their servers and service and you agreed to the Eula which you probably did not read.

PGHammer said,
It's a legal/regulatory issue - depending on where you live, nudes, even of yourself, are illegal.

No SkyDrive in the Middle East, then.

wow, i never knew skydrive was so strict, that's complete BS.

it's a good thing for me that i prefer DropBox the only thing on my skydrive is my Resume and a few school assignments (mostly for the in-browser editing capabilities)

Brando212 said,
wow, i never knew skydrive was so strict, that's complete BS.

it's a good thing for me that i prefer DropBox the only thing on my skydrive is my Resume and a few school assignments (mostly for the in-browser editing capabilities)


SkyDrive is a thousand times better, which is why it's a huge let down that this policy exists.

PsYcHoKiLLa said,
So does this mean you can't have photos of you on the beach on holiday? Cos I have some of mine.

if they don't include nude people (like, showing nipples/private areas), you should be fine

Matthew_Thepc said,

if they don't include nude people (like, showing nipples/private areas), you should be fine

But it's partial nudity.

Victor V. said,

But it's partial nudity.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_nudity#Terminology

partial nudity refers to less than full nudity, with parts of the body covered in some manner. The term partial nudity is sometimes used to refer to exposure of skin beyond what the person using the expression considers to be within the limits of modesty. If the exposure is within the standards of modesty of a given culture and setting (e.g. wearing a bikini at a non-nude beach), terms such as nudity, partial or otherwise, are not normally used. If however, the degree of exposure exceeds the cultural norms of the setting, or if the activity or setting includes nudity as an understood part of its function, such as a nude beach, terminology relating to nudity and degrees thereof are typically used.

generally "partial nudity" refers to like showing breasts whereas full nudity would mean having absolutely no clothes.

but idk how MS is using it here, that's just the way I read it.

PsYcHoKiLLa said,
So does this mean you can't have photos of you on the beach on holiday? Cos I have some of mine.

A photo of my hooha got removed a week ago. It's causing an error now in the Metro Photos app when I browse to that folder. I wish I could think of some clever buffer overrun joke right now, but all I've come up with is divide-by-zero, but I don't like the sound of that!