Microsoft's latest TV ad takes a jab at Apple for not offering touchscreen Macs

Microsoft's "Honestly" series of television commercials have been popping up on our screens for the past few months, and most of them try to make comparisons to other products made by Apple and Google. The latest such ad continues that trend, as it makes a gentle poke at Apple for not offering any touchscreen Macs.

Of course, the iMac line is one of the most well know examples of an "all-in-one" PC. However, Microsoft's new commercial, as posted on YouTube, tries to make the case that many people would like to have an AiO like the HP that not only has a touchscreen but can also be used as a large stand-alone tablet.

The example shown in the ad is the HP Envy Rove 20, which depicts a woman planning her wedding. Her friends can place the 20-inch screen on their laps or on a table as they find the perfect dress on Pinterest, check out possible music bands for the big day and more, while the bride claims that she can use it to keep everything within her budget.

The touchscreen comparison between Windows 8.1 and Mac is certainly a valid one and Apple has made no indication they plan to put in that kind of a feature in any of its PC products. It remains to be seen if these kinds of commercials are truly effective at selling PCs with Windows 8.1 installed.

Source: Windows on YouTube

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Touch screen (for laptop/desktop) is still an ergonomic disaster, the finger print problems is also a fact, it lacks of a matte screen, it LACKS OF PRECISION. But, over that, a touch screen costs about $50-$100 more than a regular screen. So, i don't think that it is smart to spend more for a feature that we will hardly use. I.e. is a gimmick!.

Anyways, MS is not new in the market of touch computer, after all, MS coined the term TabletPC, however it failed (excluding a niche market) for the same reason that now is failing : features, usability and costs.

A notebook & desktop with touch screen is NOT giving us more BANG FOR OUR BUCKS.

I have an Acer Aspire R7. I find the touchscreen to be great supplementary input mode. Benefits I like with touchscreen:

- Easier scrolling/flicking
- Quick open window selection
- Good for quick zooming in/out
- Fast to pull down Modern apps

I still use a keyboard and the touchpad, while using touch for other activities.

Quikboy said,
I have an Acer Aspire R7. I find the touchscreen to be great supplementary input mode. Benefits I like with touchscreen:

- Easier scrolling/flicking
- Quick open window selection
- Good for quick zooming in/out

I can do the same with my mouse and moving a single finger (middle scroll).

I'm with Apple on this one.

This push to touch is getting stupid. I have absolutely no doubt that when the time is right, Apple will move into touch and they will do it a hell of a lot better than Microsoft has.

Gungel said,
They certainly didn't on the iPad. The Surface is much better when it comes to touch screens.

I would expect MS to do a better job on the Surface. They had an example to beat, unlike Apple who set it way back when.

I've never personally used a Surface for more than 5 minutes in a store. Looks alone, Windows 8 on a touch device would be a fantastic product.

Wasn't the last iPad and iOS7 released after the Surface? Apple certainly had enough time to make changes that improve the usability. It just shows how stagnant Apple has become.

Gungel said,
Wasn't the last iPad and iOS7 released after the Surface? Apple certainly had enough time to make changes that improve the usability. It just shows how stagnant Apple has become.

What changes need to be made? I'm only interested because I quite like my iPad, and it works really well for what I use it for.

I love the touch screen, I like how Windows 8.1 operates with it (though could still be improved upon), but man... when someone asks me about the touchscreens... I have so many issues with them just between all the demo models (which are basically just pulled straight out of the retail box) that it makes me cringe just to say they're fine or not something to consider as another point of failure.

In between all sorts of issues with the touch sticking making the mouse useless, random freezing, autorotate not rotating or being stuck upside-down, or just plain out not even working.

I dunno. I still think Apple could use touch too maybe, but it most certainly wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me if I were buying one.

It's more like a lot of consumers are looking for reasons not to upgrade - even if they have to make them up. It's the XP Overhang all over again; however, there's the excuse of the Great Recession to cover up for it.

Why should a user upgrade?

You know not everyone gives a sh** about computers. It is a tool like a blender, car, or a hammer. If they work why replace?! illogical argument to make there is an excuse.

Yes money is an object and there are more important things to invest in like food, a nice home, or if no recession maybe that nice mini van that you can't afford without a 2nd loan that wives all Sooo have in case the daughter joins soccer practice. Nauseates ... so throw out a perfecting good working computer is not an option or low priority for them.

They do not know about security or understand it. All they know is their computer works for an occasional business report and to post on facebook.

I like how they start the commercial by saying she wanted a mac....not really a good way to start your Windows commercial

I want a giant touchscreen wall monitor with added smart pen accessories, full windows and one note, that would just be awesome as i write stories and create worlds, would be great to visualise and make notes on a bigger scale. (mood boards, stickies etc and with onenote pen to text, just perfect.)

I consider the fact it has no touch screen support a feature :-)

... as do 90% of those who are forced to use Windows 8.

sinetheo said,
I consider the fact it has no touch screen support a feature :-)

... as do 90% of those who are forced to use Windows 8.

Nobody honestly considers that a feature. Just don't use it if you don't want it.

sinetheo said,
... as do 90% of those who are forced to use Windows 8.

Who's forcing you to use Windows 8.x? Send them my way, i'll fix that.

It's funny looking at all the windows 8 haters here whine and whine while more and more windows 8 touch screen computers are sold every day.

I was laptop shopping with a friend of mine two weeks ago at Best Buy. The cheap laptops with keyboards that looked like they would break in a couples months were a no go. As we moved into the section with quality laptops, guess what? Every damn one of them had touch screens. If we wanted to walk out of the store with a decent laptop, we had to buy one with a touchscreen. My point is, manufacturers are forcing you to buy a touchscreen if you want a good laptop. It has nothing to do with consumers wanting one. I've mentioned a few of my co-workers in previous threads who have touchscreen laptops. They used the feature for a couple of weeks. The novelty wore off and they find it uncomfortable for prolong use. Touchscreen on a laptop is a gimmick. Your point about sales holds no weight. It's the same thing as the Windows 8 vs Windows 7 argument. If you have both operating systems on the same computer, side by side in a store, consumers would be buying the Windows 7 computer the majority of the time. Basically, there is no choice. So sales look pretty for one particular operating system.

Edited by JHBrown, Mar 1 2014, 6:23pm :

Majority I see at stores are not touch.

Majority of users are putting XP on their new machines or are keeping their old. Read the story below this one?

Fact is the market does not like Windows 8

You are absolutely right and I have observed same thing as well. Touch fad on laptops are same as 3D craze going on with TV manufacturers couple of years ago. Anyone with right set of mind will simply ignore buying touch on laptop. If people have the need for touch they will buy tablet but buying touch on laptop is completely useless and waste of money.

Auditor said,
You are absolutely right and I have observed same thing as well. Touch fad on laptops are same as 3D craze going on with TV manufacturers couple of years ago. Anyone with right set of mind will simply ignore buying touch on laptop. If people have the need for touch they will buy tablet but buying touch on laptop is completely useless and waste of money.

Completely useless to you maybe, but I love my touchscreen ultrabook! I personally find it so much easier and faster to use then just with a mouse and keyboard. Touch is not a fad like 3D was, it's is here to stay. We are entering a new era of computer interaction and just seems some people cannot let go of the old ways. However, fear not there will always be companies that will cater to your needs and there is always choice

EDIT: I laugh at the people who refuse to buy a laptop just because it has a touchscreen. You do realize you can just use it like a normal laptop and it works just fine right? you act like the touchscreen is the only way of interacting with it. Soon as Apple release a touchscreen iMac/MacBook (and they will) we'll see how many of you suddenly change your tune

Edited by Xerxes, Mar 1 2014, 11:30pm :

JHBrown said,
If we wanted to walk out of the store with a decent laptop, we had to buy one with a touchscreen. My point is, manufacturers are forcing you to buy a touchscreen if you want a good laptop.

You do know you don't have to use the touchscreen and the computer will still work the same, right? You act like it won't even function.

hagjohn said,

You do know you don't have to use the touchscreen and the computer will still work the same, right? You act like it won't even function.


Maybe so, but why should I pay more for something I won't use?

Raa said,

Maybe so, but why should I pay more for something I won't use?

The amount more you're paying is hardly that much to get upset about though my Ultrabook, even with its touchscreen, was pretty cheap and the money I would of saved trying to find an equivalent non-touchscreen laptop would of been outweighed by the inconvenience of trying to find one. I get where your coming from though, you just want to pay for what you need and nothing more that is fair enough. However, you just have to shop around until you find something that best meets your needs.

On the flipside, I could of gone for the MacBook Air which is a superior laptop with comparable specs, superior build quality and no touchscreen but would of cost me twice as much! so swings and roundabouts really. Anyway, I'm happy with my purchase and grown to love the touchscreen. My only issues are the low resolution screen and slow performance of the hybrid HDD (which can be fixed later on), but considering how much it cost I can live with it

hagjohn said,

You do know you don't have to use the touchscreen and the computer will still work the same, right? You act like it won't even function.

Of course I do. But my buddy who was doing the shopping just didn't want a freakin touchscreen. Why can't he get a premium laptop without a touchscreen? Anyhow, he bought a nice Sager with an upgraded wide gamut screen and no touchscreen. He is quite happy with his monster laptop running Windows 7.

Xerxes said,

The amount more you're paying is hardly that much to get upset about though

I'd say $270 is a fair bit of money to get upset about.
[Source : Dell]

Raa said,

I'd say $270 is a fair bit of money to get upset about.
[Source : Dell]

Guess it depends where you go then Where I got my Ultrabook from (Dick Smith) equivalent non-touchscreen laptops were generally more expensive. I'm sure I could find one cheaper but that was my point, from my experience wasn't worth the effort. However, all that said can't you just choose to not have the touchscreen on the Dell laptop and save the money? or do Dell give you no choice?

If it comes with touch for little/no extra price, sure it's not worth quibbling over. But above $50 and i'd have to start questioning it. More than $100 is a deal breaker to many families...

Dell did offer the choice. Considering the price, you can tell what I asked for.

No thanks Microsoft! Let me enjoy my Mac's and Windows 7 peacefully. These guys are so out of touch with customers now. It's a damn shame.

Edited by JHBrown, Mar 1 2014, 5:08pm :

JHBrown said,
No thanks Microsoft! Keep your ugly tile interface to yourself. Let me enjoy my Mac's and Windows 7 peacefully. These guys are so out of touch with customers now.

They will probably release a watch sometime soon

This advert might have more credibility had the fact that Macs sales continue to grow while Windows sales continue to decline not been true.

The same applies to the anti-ChromeOS ads. I've come to the conclusion that Microsoft just doesn't understand the average consumer any more. Instead of giving the market what it wants, Microsoft gives the market what it wants; which in Windows 8's case, is to push Metro down everybody's throats whether they like it or not.

Maybe they need better focus testing, using outside people, not just employees, and being more hands off instead of steering their testers and offering help/advice. Just see how the users try and use the device, and improve that experience, instead of guiding them along certain use cases that they designed for. Listen to feedback.

Mac sales are declining. Heres some actual facts:

http://9to5mac.com/2013/10/10/...timates-by-gartner-and-idc/

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/...uction-of-new-macbook-airs/

http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/23/apple-mac-sales-q1-2013/

... I even linked Apple/Mac sites so you don't accuse them of bias. Everywhere shows Mac sales are down.
Any news that points to increased Mac sales is in relation to previous quarter. An example would be the 4th quarter last year as Mac sales were obviously up like everything else is near xmas. But compared to the same quarter the previous year they were down, and for the whole year they were down. In 2012 they were also down.

simplezz said,
This advert might have more credibility had the fact that Macs sales continue to grow while Windows sales continue to decline not been true.

Your post might have more credibility had the fact that Mac sales have declined had not been true.

rfirth said,

Your post might have more credibility had the fact that Mac sales have declined had not been true.

Mac sales are down because of Windows 8.

And what is anyone going to do when the touch screen quits working as a touch screen? I have seen many POS touch screens stop being touch. It does happen. I guess the cheapest thing to do is plug in a mouse.

Funny. I had always taken for granted that Apple had been all-touch, all the time, everywhere, for years now. I mean, they're already charging a premium for the hardware, so why not make it all touch-enabled--even if few ended up using it, what's the loss?

_dandy_ said,
Funny. I had always taken for granted that Apple had been all-touch, all the time, everywhere, for years now. I mean, they're already charging a premium for the hardware, so why not make it all touch-enabled--even if few ended up using it, what's the loss?

Apple doesn't like to confuse their customers like MS.

stevan said,
Apple doesn't like to confuse their customers like MS.

So you'd have the option to push a button with your finger rather than clicking it with a mouse. That's confusing?

_dandy_ said,

So you'd have the option to push a button with your finger rather than clicking it with a mouse. That's confusing?

Microsoft is absolutely clueless on how to implement their ideas. So yes, they make it an absolute nightmare for their customers.

They should use Apple tactics and force the consumers to adapt and brainwash them. Again like with the "a phone should not be bigger then 4,5", or "you dont need a right click function or a delete button".

Wall-swe said,
They should use Apple tactics and force the consumers to adapt and brainwash them. Again like with the "a phone should not be bigger then 4,5", or "you dont need a right click function or a delete button".

Yep.

_dandy_ said,
so why not make it all touch-enabled--even if few ended up using it, what's the loss?

OSX isn't designed for touch at all. It's like using Win 7 for touch, or even worse. You're going to have a very bad experience.

We don't know if OS X supports touch in the operating system or not - so far, nobody, even in the "Hack" community, has installed OS X on touch-screen-supporting Intel hardware (or at least has reported doing so).

PGHammer said,
We don't know if OS X supports touch in the operating system or not - so far, nobody, even in the "Hack" community, has installed OS X on touch-screen-supporting Intel hardware (or at least has reported doing so).

I've installed OS X on touch-screen supporting Intel hardware. It's not that difficult.

Some people even reported success installing OS X on a Surface Pro. It's a terrible experience, but it works.

Nothing wrong with this ad. It's just still not really backed up by enough apps that truly take advantage of a touch UI for enough of the consumer market, yet. There aren't killer consumer touch apps on Windows yet. But app quality is getting better, it's just a matter of time ...

True - however, you don't need ModernUI to have software that takes advantage of touch-screen support, even in Windows; have we forgotten that every application in Office 2013 can leverage touch-screen support, if present? It's no more either-or in Windows than it is in Android - why would it need to be either-or in OS X? (It's certainly not either-or in iOS, given the sheer number of third-party keyboards for iPads.)

PGHammer said,
True - however, you don't need ModernUI to have software that takes advantage of touch-screen support, even in Windows; have we forgotten that every application in Office 2013 can leverage touch-screen support, if present?

Weird that some people equate touch as being something new with the Modern UI.. been using touch with Windows for almost a decade now myself, before Android or iOS was even around. 8 just makes it a lot more refined than it used to be.

PGHammer said,
It's no more either-or in Windows than it is in Android - why would it need to be either-or in OS X?

OS X and its UI are not built for direct touch input. It would royally suck to be used in that way. Simple as that.

Don't tell me you enjoy using the Windows desktop with touch, either.

Outlook 2013 is designed for touch, and works very well. Outlook isn't very consumerish. The Modern UI is for touch, whereas with Win32 it's optional and probably more work.

Actually, ModernUI is for every mode, including touch - did I or did I not point out that some ModernUI apps you can use without either touch or even a pointing device? What has been happening is that the majority of the critics of ModernUI are assuming (incorrectly) that lack of the Start menu means a lack of pointing-device support - which is so far from the truth as to be laughable. Desktop software (applications and games) still work just fine - other than what has been superseded by software included in the operating system, I still use every application and game I would in 7. Outlook is a desktop application (not a ModernUI app) - the same applies to Word. And the fact remains that both are still perfectly usable with a keyboard and mouse. (Remember, my desktop at home lacks touch support altogether, though I could add it.) Even on HP's TouchSmart series of touch-screen desktops and AIOs, touch is optional - not a requirement; you don't have to use it.

I was rather shocked after buying the Dell desktop/tablet that my wife and daughter were taking it out of the office and into the kitchen and living room to work with friends. My wife was working on some posters for a local charity fund raiser and showing others and doing edits with the planning committee. My daughter took it to the kitchen island to do home work and Skype with her friends.

Being able to run high end Adobe graphic suites and MS Office for homework is something you just can't do on an iPad (sorry Apple fans).

What are you doing comparing a desktop or laptop with an iPad? Come on now Kevin! Of course you will get more work done on a device intended to get work done. SMH!

JHBrown said,
What are you doing comparing a desktop or laptop with an iPad? Come on now Kevin! Of course you will get more work done on a device intended to get work done. SMH!

He's probably talking about something like the Dell Venue Pro. It costs half of what the iPad costs and can do all of what he mentioned above. It is a tablet.

I use a touchscreen monitor at work, and it's a wonderful secondary input device. I wish more desktop monitors had a touchscreen in them.

my toughbook has been touch screen since windows 2000 was released. I hate it and rarely use it. KB/mouse is always better until voice recognition or eye tracking is available.

Apple had plenty of time to make theirs touch screen as well, but it'd most likley cut into their ipad sales. Hows the surface doing anyway??

srbeen said,
Apple had plenty of time to make theirs touch screen as well

Not only have they had time, they supposedly even tried it in their labs years ago and found the result unsatisfactory. Of course, if they let you detach the display and it instantly turned into an iPad, thinks might look differently.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-34Rs...rkmQ2E/s1600/touch-macs.jpg

Of course, I'm sure they don't mind if people (have to) buy *both* a Mac and an iPad, instead of just a single device.

Voice recognition is available - Dragon Naturally Speaking is not just for applications, but for the whole OS; that's been the case since Windows 9x. (Extra cost above the application support - zero.) The current version of DNS supports Windows 8+.

Has it got better since Microsoft dropped the 9 off the OS version? I used it in windows 98 and spent more time reviewing and editing things than I would have just doing it with a KB/mouse.

Ha..Ha.. a company which has given one of the worst product in history called win 8 and had been trying to backtrack their wrong move desperately, and tablet product with almost a billion dollar write off is giving suggestion to company who has been launching successful product after one another and has one of the highest customer satisfaction rate.

Apples sells tablet each quarter much more than what MS sells in whole year. Apple should do exactly opposite to what MS is doing as MS is in self destructive mode. So far I have not seen a single surface or windows tablet but I see tons of iPad and android tablets. This marketing gimmick by MS is totally ridiculous. They are telling that people want touch on their desktop computers but their own desktop touch sales number tell different story.

Exactly! The trackpad and gestures are the best in the industry. I always find myself out of habit, trying to use the gestures on my Windows laptop............I bang my head on the desk.

MacBook trackpads are so friggin glorious...Honestly that giant piece of glass is a game changer, I couldn't imagine computing without one

To me more than anything, I would hope Microsoft would help OEMs with better trackpad support and gestures in Windows 8. When designed right a good trackpad with the right gestures will beat out a touch screen any day

It would be nice, but I'm not sure I would use the touchscreen. I don't mind having smudges on my tablet and smartphone as I don't use them for a long amount of time, but it annoys me to have fingerprints on my desktop/laptop screen when working for several hours in a row.

Imagine the boon for other industries when a bottle of windolene and a shammy leather is a must for any desktop setup. Good time to be a window cleaner. The footur!

Apple realizes the severe limitations of touch-screens on anything other than a smartphone or tablet platform. Microsoft seems to failed to realize this, as witnessed with its Windows-8.x

Which is why, again, every time you make the same post in every Windows 8 article, I must point out that Windows 8.1 works just fine with a keyboard and mouse. It does not require touch. To be honest, you don't even need a mouse.

As they realized that the iPhone should stay 4,5" Before doing an 180 to save their asses?
Or that you don't need the right click function or a delete button?

TsarNikky said,
Apple realizes the severe limitations of their OS with touch-screens on anything other than a smartphone or tablet platform.

Fixed that for you.

Touch screen for tablets, yes! Touch screen for Laptops, Maybe?! Touch screen for desktops, not really interested!!

This is more of a desktop being 20" I don't think anyone would use it how they're using it. But I'd be happy to be proved wrong!

hagjohn said,
I think once you have one, you would feel differently.

Used one at work for 9 months. I do think differently now just like you said.

Except that its the other way around. Before I thought it as a good idea. Now I know its not.

Spoken like someone who has never used a touch laptop or desktop OS. :-)

They're amazingly useful and intuitive. I can't tell you how frustrated I get now when I sit down in front of a non-touch screen. It's like having to type with mittens.

pmbAustin said,
Spoken like someone who has never used a touch laptop or desktop OS. :-)

They're amazingly useful and intuitive. I can't tell you how frustrated I get now when I sit down in front of a non-touch screen. It's like having to type with mittens.


I've probably used them longer than you have. Did you even read my response? I used one for 9 months in my last job. I even used one for two years as a laptop in school.

Laptop was better, but even then it was mostly a gimmick. I ended up more often than not not using the touch features. Not because Windows Vista or 7 sucked for it, but because it didn't make sense for me.

At work, it was with Windows 8, so I think I have a pretty good frame of reference.

offroadaaron said,
Touch screen for tablets, yes! Touch screen for Laptops, Maybe?! Touch screen for desktops, not really interested!!

This is more of a desktop being 20" I don't think anyone would use it how they're using it. But I'd be happy to be proved wrong!

My desktop touchscreen issues are really twofold -- they're pretty expensive, especially at the larger sizes, and they don't work right with multiple monitors.

However, they are very nice for all-in-ones. I have one in my den, and I like it!

Sorry, I just can't buy it. Because I've used both desktop, but especially laptop, with a touch screen, and the convenience of just reaching up to dismiss a dialog, or scroll up a bit, without having to reach for the mouse, find the cursor, target, click, etc., is just a no-brainer.

It's so hard to go back to non-touch screens. I'm CONSTANTLY reaching out to touch, tap, or flick them... and nothing happens. UGH.

Microsoft has this right. It's just going to take a while for people to realize it.

adrynalyne said,


I've probably used them longer than you have. Did you even read my response? I used one for 9 months in my last job. I even used one for two years as a laptop in school.

Laptop was better, but even then it was mostly a gimmick. I ended up more often than not not using the touch features. Not because Windows Vista or 7 sucked for it, but because it didn't make sense for me.

At work, it was with Windows 8, so I think I have a pretty good frame of reference.

Using one at work isn't really the best use for it. That's why the surface has a keyboard too. General media consumption on a pc in your front room is where a touchscreen monitor shines.

b_roca said,

Using one at work isn't really the best use for it. That's why the surface has a keyboard too. General media consumption on a pc in your front room is where a touchscreen monitor shines.

A surface is more of a tablet/laptop hybrid. I was referring to a desktop with a touchscreen monitor. Touchscreens are great for certain things.

pmbAustin said,
Sorry, I just can't buy it. Because I've used both desktop, but especially laptop, with a touch screen, and the convenience of just reaching up to dismiss a dialog, or scroll up a bit, without having to reach for the mouse, find the cursor, target, click, etc., is just a no-brainer.

It's so hard to go back to non-touch screens. I'm CONSTANTLY reaching out to touch, tap, or flick them... and nothing happens. UGH.

Microsoft has this right. It's just going to take a while for people to realize it.

Sounds like a lot of effort to dismiss a dialog. How about hitting the enter or esc key? Your fingers are already at the keyboard most likely. Why would I reach up to a monitor to dismiss a dialog at that point?

Because it's intuitive. It's easy. It's natural. And many times, it's faster or more convenient. Again, I'm speaking from actual experience here, not some theoretical notion.

pmbAustin said,
Because it's intuitive. It's easy. It's natural. And many times, it's faster or more convenient. Again, I'm speaking from actual experience here, not some theoretical notion.

So am I. So it sounds like this is purely subjective but I can promise you I can dismiss a dialog faster with keyboard then you can reaching up to a touchscreen.

There are certainly circumstances where that's true. I'm pointing out it's not ALWAYS true. And once you get used to touch interfaces, it's NATURAL and INSTINCTIVE to just reach out and tap. Besides, you're fixating on just one of the many aspects... and also assuming that the dialog to be dismissed has focus, among other things (not always the case). EVERY time I use a non-touch laptop or desktop, I find myself touching the screen expecting something to happen at SOME point ...

I'm not arguing that desktop computers should have touch as their primary input... not at all. But it's a convenient, natural, and efficient companion input method. It's meaningful, it's worthwhile, it's useful, and it's natural/intuitive for those who don't have a hundred different keyboard short-cuts memorized.

I have no problem with the idea of having touch screen for my monitor despite many people argue it's ergonomic terrible. It can act as a secondary navigation device in case my mouse and keyboard suddenly not working. In fact, why some portion of desktop user ignore touch screen when you finally can have the best of both world's. It's the future and that future is now. If you want to just quickly navigate some folder with your monitor the touch screen can achieve that for you like the IRONMAN.

The problem with windows 8 is in order to have a complete user experience, you will need to spend additional amount of money for touch device and many people isn't willing to especially desktop user. At least the metro interface is still usable with M/K and the ICON is big enough and unlike iOS which definitely looks awkward when using with non-touch screen device.

Macbook Pro will one day offer touch screen as an option and when majority of laptop is selling with touch screen feature. They are not offering now could because of the cost and it's already an expensive machines and imagine adding touch screen the cost will blow off the budget for some people even at an entry level model.

Edited by Master of Earth, Mar 1 2014, 1:58pm :

Dot Matrix said,
Been looking at touchscreen monitors for my desktop, however, I just can't find one that I like.

Well now you can go and buy it, as per article that is HP envy rove 20.

Dot Matrix said,
Been looking at touchscreen monitors for my desktop, however, I just can't find one that I like.
The market is not calling for touch screens and so the quality screen manufacturers see no sense in offering one. I'd look at one if they offered the same quality as my IPS/Wide Gamut 27inch monitor.

JHBrown said,
The market is not calling for touch screens and so the quality screen manufacturers see no sense in offering one. I'd look at one if they offered the same quality as my IPS/Wide Gamut 27inch monitor.

LOL he just said he is looking for one and you replied that no one is looking for one.. ?!Q?

Lachlan said,

LOL he just said he is looking for one and you replied that no one is looking for one.. ?!Q?

Wrong. I said the market is not. The market is a broad term.

Now show the video of them lugging a 20" tablet around town and waiting forever in the store for stuff to load because of it's 5400 RPM HDD.

I suppose it depends on what you are used to and how patient you are. I imagine a person who has used an SSD would think a HDD is a lot slower vs a person who has only used HDDs.

pratnala said,
The slowness of HDDs is exaggerated
A 5400 RPM drive can make an otherwise fast computer seem incredibly sluggish; that goes for all the computers Apple still put 5400 RPM drives in.

As a desktop user, I don't want and have no need for a touch screen. They're just a gimmick in my opinion. Plus, I wouldn't want to get fingerprints all over the screen.

Also, note how in the video she's laying that 20" screen flat on her lap. That's simply bad ergonomics (imagine sitting like that for two hours straight, and the sore neck you would get afterwards), unstable, and how is the person furthest supposed to see what's on the screen? Plus, all that time lost with swiping around...

Edited by 68k, Mar 1 2014, 1:01pm :

This argument is so hollowed out. There is no difference between PC touchscreens and tablet/smartphone touchscreens. And I bet you use those without whining.

Wall-swe said,
There is no difference between PC touchscreens and tablet/smartphone touchscreens.

I can't imagine holding my 29" monitor in my hand. But then I am stuck in the past I guess.

Touch Screens are a gimmick for pressing buttons on the screen. But Touch Screen interfaces are definitely wonderful for gestures.. I find scrolling long webpages with a mouse or trackpad painful after getting used to finger kinetic scrolling. Almost all browsers have narrow scroll bars making finger scrolling a significantly better experience.

68k said,

Also, note how in the video she's laying that 20" screen flat on her lap. That's simply bad ergonomics (imagine sitting like that for two hours straight, and the sore neck you would get afterwards), unstable, and how is the person furthest supposed to see what's on the screen? Plus, all that time lost with swiping around...

but all those people with the iPad flat on their laps while typing is so comfortable..

Wall-swe said,
This argument is so hollowed out. There is no difference between PC touchscreens and tablet/smartphone touchscreens. And I bet you use those without whining.

hold your arms in front of your body at shoulder height and see how quickly you get fatigued. we have track pads and mice for screens that stand upright. my 27" screen does NOT need to be touch. i have a trackpad for gestures and i don't have to reach around in the air to operate it quickly

So I cant rest my arm against the table when using a touchscreen? Do you hold your phone/tablet in your hand at full extended arm length when using the touchscreen?
And again his complaint was finger smudges, and when I debunked that argument you had to try and find another flawed argument.. Please...

And again Apple fans, and tech journalists will praise Apple for the great gift Apple has bestowed upon this earth, when they through pure invention "invent" the touchscreen MacBook.

Edited by Wall-swe, Mar 1 2014, 10:26pm :

Co_Co said,

hold your arms in front of your body at shoulder height and see how quickly you get fatigued. we have track pads and mice for screens that stand upright. my 27" screen does NOT need to be touch. i have a trackpad for gestures and i don't have to reach around in the air to operate it quickly

Why on earth would you just keep your arms hanging out in front of you?? Ridiculous argument.

And when they do, what then? Ad is better based on some capability that is certain never to be duplicated on a mac, this is likely just a matter of when.

Enron said,
After using a Surface Pro 2 for a week, I am really glad it has a touchscreen.

And what is the screen size of your Surface. is it not less than 10" and you used it mainly in your lap or hand. Will you do the same thing for 24" or 30" monitor whole day. Surface is a failed tablet and its contender tablet iPAD is far away and better than billion dollar write off device.

Auditor said,

And what is the screen size of your Surface. is it not less than 10" and you used it mainly in your lap or hand. Will you do the same thing for 24" or 30" monitor whole day. Surface is a failed tablet and its contender tablet iPAD is far away and better than billion dollar write off device.

The Surface is far from a failed tablet. Don't let the write down confuse you.

Also, your assumption that Windows 8 is killing the keyboard is old and tired. Windows 8 isn't killing your keyboard. A 10 inch touchscreen is no different from a 24 inch touchscreen.

Auditor said,

And what is the screen size of your Surface. is it not less than 10" and you used it mainly in your lap or hand. Will you do the same thing for 24" or 30" monitor whole day. Surface is a failed tablet and its contender tablet iPAD is far away and better than billion dollar write off device.

That's clearly coming from somebody who has never used one. Surface (even the RT that you're attacking) is way more functional than the iPad. There's a reason they sell the iPad at Toys'R'Us.

Enron said,

That's clearly coming from somebody who has never used one. Surface (even the RT that you're attacking) is way more functional than the iPad. There's a reason they sell the iPad at Toys'R'Us.

Funny, I saw a whole bunch of Dell Windows 8 tablets at Toys R US. Lol

Enron said,

That's clearly coming from somebody who has never used one. Surface (even the RT that you're attacking) is way more functional than the iPad. There's a reason they sell the iPad at Toys'R'Us.

Fun fact: Toys R Us didn't used to sell iPads there. They got into a spat with Apple over an allocation of iPads, which were diverted from the toy store to Apple stores. Toys R Us got into a spat with Apple, and Apple retaliated by not letting them sell iPads (so I was told). The fact that they are now selling iPads means Apple thinks they're losing their marketshare and wants more retail outlets.

Dot Matrix said,

The Surface is far from a failed tablet. Don't let the write down confuse you.

Also, your assumption that Windows 8 is killing the keyboard is old and tired. Windows 8 isn't killing your keyboard. A 10 inch touchscreen is no different from a 24 inch touchscreen.

No matter how you like to twist the obvious concept but truth is Surface and win tablet are not at the level where any successful product should have been after more than a year launch. Not only that MS has issue in tablet but they also dug their holes in desktop front as well and now they are having issue with their desktop market share. it is close to 1.5 yrs and win 8 all combined still has less than 10% market share even though that is the default OS majority of people can buy when they purchase new computer. Now MS is backtracking its stupid decision made by Sinofsky, Ballmer and his cons. The only right step they did was to either fire or transfer the people involved in bringing Win 8 fiasco.

Auditor said,

No matter how you like to twist the obvious concept but truth is Surface and win tablet are not at the level where any successful product should have been after more than a year launch. Not only that MS has issue in tablet but they also dug their holes in desktop front as well and now they are having issue with their desktop market share. it is close to 1.5 yrs and win 8 all combined still has less than 10% market share even though that is the default OS majority of people can buy when they purchase new computer. Now MS is backtracking its stupid decision made by Sinofsky, Ballmer and his cons. The only right step they did was to either fire or transfer the people involved in bringing Win 8 fiasco.

Microsoft isn't reversing anything. And Windows still has over 90% marketshare.

Auditor said,
No matter how you like to twist the obvious concept but truth is Surface and win tablet are not at the level where any successful product should have been after more than a year launch. Not only that MS has issue in tablet but they also dug their holes in desktop front as well and now they are having issue with their desktop market share. it is close to 1.5 yrs and win 8 all combined still has less than 10% market share even though that is the default OS majority of people can buy when they purchase new computer. Now MS is backtracking its stupid decision made by Sinofsky, Ballmer and his cons. The only right step they did was to either fire or transfer the people involved in bringing Win 8 fiasco.

Ooooh, after reading all of your Surface rants over the last few months (they stick out in every thread like a sore thumb), now I get why you never miss a chance to bad-mouth it--you're treating the hardware and the OS it ships with as if they were one and the same. I wish I would've caught that a long time ago.

Yeah, Windows 8 is MS trying to figure out WTF to do with Windows in a touch-oriented world, and the results (Metro in particular) have been less than stellar. But I use my Pro daily, and frankly I never see any Metro app, and I hardly ever see the start screen, given the shortcuts and pinned icons I have and such--none of which have changed.

Point is, I can't complain about the hardware this all runs on. And I certainly wouldn't be able to do any of this (run Windows like any prior version) with an iPad or Android.

Enron said,
That's clearly coming from somebody who has never used one. Surface (even the RT that you're attacking) is way more functional than the iPad. There's a reason they sell the iPad at Toys'R'Us.

Reason being the iPad actually sells.

Auditor said,

Surface is a failed tablet and its contender tablet iPAD is far away and better than billion dollar write off device.

Are you saying market share dictates success? If that the case Mac's must be considered the biggest POC ever!

The only advantage the iPad has over the Surface is the amount of available apps. Everything else is superior on the Surface.

trip21 said,

Are you saying market share dictates success? If that the case Mac's must be considered the biggest POC ever!

Profits dictate success.

Gungel said,
The only advantage the iPad has over the Surface is the amount of available apps. Everything else is superior on the Surface.

Except of course for sales.

stevan said,

Profits dictate success.

So do you only use products that generate the most profit? Or are you just cheerleading for Apple?

Enron said,

So do you only use products that generate the most profit? Or are you just cheerleading for Apple?

Don't be silly. That's called consumer choice and it's not dictated by profits. I choose what works for me and what I can afford.

I fully understand that for the price of my ipad I could have bought 7 garbage android tablets and use a different one for each day Of the week. But that's not for me.

stevan said,

Don't be silly. That's called consumer choice and it's not dictated by profits. I choose what works for me and what I can afford.

I fully understand that for the price of my ipad I could have bought 7 garbage android tablets and use a different one for each day Of the week. But that's not for me.

Ok, so I think we agree then. Surface might not generate profits like the iPads do, in fact they could still be losing money (no official sales figures on the new models), but like you I choose what works for me and what I can afford. The Surface was perfect for my needs so I got one.

Enron said,

Ok, so I think we agree then. Surface might not generate profits like the iPads do, in fact they could still be losing money (no official sales figures on the new models), but like you I choose what works for me and what I can afford. The Surface was perfect for my needs so I got one.

Of course. Never once, in my long history of Apple related discussions on Neowin, did I say that their products are best for "everyone". It's all about what works for who. I love my iPhone and my iPad but I wouldn't drop the money on a MacBook. My Lenovo x120e is a perfect machine for me.

stevan said,

Except of course for sales.

I don't buy my products based on sales numbers. I'm buying a tablet that best fits my needs. After using an iPad for two years the Surface was like a breeze of fresh air.

Gungel said,

I don't buy my products based on sales numbers. I'm buying a tablet that best fits my needs. After using an iPad for two years the Surface was like a breeze of fresh air.

Neither do it. But in a capitalist world we live in, a companies success is measured mainly by profits.

stevan said,

Neither do it. But in a capitalist world we live in, a companies success is measured mainly by profits.

If that were true then we wouldn't here ever other day how Microsoft is crappy company that's going out of business at any moment.

I too wish I had fingerprint smudges all over my MBP screen

Seriously though, I prefer the touchpad solution

So you hate touchscreens on smartphones and tablets? I bet that if Apple copies PCs touchscreens you will be the first to point out how great and awesome Apple is, and that they invented this. And your fingerprint smudges argument is forgotten.

SiCr said,
I too wish I had fingerprint smudges all over my MBP screen

Seriously though, I prefer the touchpad solution

Use a stylus.. Boom problem solved

But key shortcuts are so much faster, and the touchpad is right there... Why lift your hand away to touch the screen? And then you have the problem of creating a legacy of apps that aren't built with touch in mind and don't work well with it. On new apps buttons get bigger and take up more of the screen, and then there is this disparity... It's not elegant. Besides, using your hand at a 90 degree angle doesn't feel too good. If it was a convertible laptop that hides the keyboard and becomes a tablet, then I would understand.

Stupid ad - I've never seen anyone pass around a 20" touchscreen (they are wayyy too big) or put it on a coffee table and crowd around it so one other person can "touch" it, while the others look on.

Really how many people here are going to move there hand over there desk just to touch their screen. Ive seen some peoples setups on NEOWIN and something tells me getting a touch screen isn't on there to do list! Touch screens are dead, no saying they are not great for phones and tablets but for a desktop AIO or laptop people need to start using Leap Motion! I think best setup would be having a leap motion build into the keyboard!