Online coverage of Windows Phone 7 on the increase

After news of dropping KIN, Microsoft is keen to show off more of their soon to be released mobile operating system; Windows Phone 7. The company is holding live QnA sessions and posting more videos in an attempt to create more interest in the OS, before the thousands of prototype devices are shipped out to developers around the world.  

Earlier this week Microsoft posted another live interview on Windows Phone 7 Backstage; going further in depth with regards to what the new OS will feature. Microsoft have done these interviews before, and they all follow a similar format allowing readers of the site to submit questions, which are then answered by a senior member of the Windows Phone team. Today’s live interview was presented by Aaron Woodman, Director of Windows Phone Product Management and was based around gaming on the mobile devices and how Xbox Live will integrate with the OS. Much of what was discussed in the video is already known, including Xbox Live integration.

However, during this interview some other interesting points were made. Microsoft has stated that there will be many games available in the marketplace at launch, and that the launch will be accompanied by a massive advertising campaign across different types of media, including Xbox Live. Games will pause and be pushed to the background if the users move out of the game or receives a phone call and furthermore, developers will be able to use all of sensors in the device. It will also be possible to integrate social networks other than Xbox Live to connect games and players to their contacts. The video also assures viewers that the device will ship in time for the holiday season, as both Microsoft and its many partners are all on track for a timely release. It also sounds like Microsoft have a multi-year plan for Windows Phone and will bring a more functional version of Xbox Live to the OS in the future allowing more than just the initial turn by turn multiplayer games.

Aaron also went on to confirm what won’t be included in the software. It won’t be possible to pause a game on Windows Phone 7 and resume it on another platform; the demo that Microsoft gave showing jumping in and out of the same gaming session on three different screens appears to have just been that, a demo. At launch it won’t be possible to make small financial transactions, micro-transactions, within games or apps, for example buying more levels, although this may be a feature that is integrated in the future.

Also another new video has appeared. WMPoweruser.com, has stumbled upon French website Le Journal du Geek who were able to play around with the OS and even play Twin Blades, one of the few games already demonstrated on the devices. The video below is best viewed by those who speak French, but even if you don't, you might still be interested to see one of the latest builds of Windows Phone 7 and a game running on the OS.

Incidentally if you are interested in seeing some games that are likely to be featured on Windows Phone 7, there are many demos from developers available on YouTube.

Microsoft are expected to send out many devices to developers over the coming weeks and its possible they will make public more information about Windows Phone 7 soon. There is currently no information about the devices that will be powered by Windows Phone 7 at launch.

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I looks like a nice change from the iPhone's greyish ui. But could use a little more gloss/shine (literally). But I'd like to see where this goes.

But I'm still not getting one of those horrendous contracts. Not even Apple's ridiculously good marketing department could persuade me there.

If the Zune project was about making a better music service, device, and library software, than Apple and Creative Zen etc, then it was a success. I am sure if the iPhone had never existed Zune HD would have come out worldwide by now. But I guess some knob at Microsoft said, hold back and we will add it to our phone, and so not only does everyone outside of the US, not get the Zune HD - ( unless they imported it like me ) - but they have to wait for the Zune service, with XBOX and the Zune Software unable to use Zune Pass or get access to the marketplace, social and podcast subscriptions. (without making changes to the locale of your computer in control panel)

I don't like it. The screen looks great under the sun, but the interface seems awkward. It's almost impossible to understand what's going on the phone. Too much fuzz. I want something practical beautiful and fast. This OS doesn't even have copy and paste. Why is MS launching an inferior device to compete with the iPhone? They're just too desperate to launch something.

Luis Mazza said,
I don't like it. The screen looks great under the sun, but the interface seems awkward. It's almost impossible to understand what's going on the phone. Too much fuzz. I want something practical beautiful and fast. This OS doesn't even have copy and paste. Why is MS launching an inferior device to compete with the iPhone? They're just too desperate to launch something.

How is it impossible to understand what's going on the phone? Is it because the UI isn't some variation of the static "grid of apps" that everyone else is going towards?

Luis Mazza said,
I don't like it. The screen looks great under the sun, but the interface seems awkward. It's almost impossible to understand what's going on the phone. Too much fuzz. I want something practical beautiful and fast. This OS doesn't even have copy and paste. Why is MS launching an inferior device to compete with the iPhone? They're just too desperate to launch something.

You know, there's other phones besides the iPhone right?....right?

lordcanti86 said,

How is it impossible to understand what's going on the phone? Is it because the UI isn't some variation of the static "grid of apps" that everyone else is going towards?

Is a grid of apps just too perfect that MS should build a worse version just to be different? Apps are just apps. The phone should be called Windows Media Center Phone.

zkid2010 said,

You know, there's other phones besides the iPhone right?....right?

Yeah... I think we have to live with that.
I love competition. But that's not what I would expect to see from MICROSOFT.
There are a ton of competitors to copy ideas from and not even that they can do.
Please someone take that "developers, developers..." guy out of this business.

Luis Mazza said,

Is a grid of apps just too perfect that MS should build a worse version just to be different? Apps are just apps. The phone should be called Windows Media Center Phone.

Yeah... I think we have to live with that.
I love competition. But that's not what I would expect to see from MICROSOFT.
There are a ton of competitors to copy ideas from and not even that they can do.
Please someone take that "developers, developers..." guy out of this business.

Microsoft's developer tools may be the best developer tools out there. I've used them and they are very flexible and advanced.

Grid of apps too perfect? It's a pretty old design that everybody uses and it reminds me of an iPhone. But hey! If you want to get a Windows Phone with that old design, get an HTC HD2, those phones are pretty sweet and they have that old design.

The Metro UI is a very flexible and advanced user interface. If you ever saw it, you would know it saves battery life dramatically and naturally looks beautiful. Of course, if your not a fanboy that is. If your a fanboy, you are prone to hating any awesome new thing out there that Apple doesn't invent. Even though Apple doesn't really invent it, they innovate...

Metro UI is the best that's going to be out there for a very long time. Simply, it saves battery life by being designed for black backgrounds and lots of colorful text and incredible transitions/animations. All of that eye candy is possible because of the high quality hardware making it too simple for the upcoming Windows Phones to do. Plus, you get lots of space to work with, swipe left, right, up, down, etc. I love the idea of BIG and sometimes my hand can't fit that big of a display so they innovated and made it swipe to show more. The bars at the top and bottom also use black backgrounds and it will look really nice on an OLED screen without hogging battery life, providing additional advanced features whenever you need them.

And please, I'm tired of Android, it's UI makes me think of Google iPhone, some kind of clone that seems too complex and not that great... You can thank copying ideas for that, but don't freak out because you wouldn't consider the grid of apps design, copying from the iPhone, you would consider that a MUST and that it was normal. I, for one, believe all of that is copying and it's so commonplace nowadays that I am glad that Windows Phone 7 innovates with multitouch to make something completely different and very flexible to use.

Electric Jolt said,

Microsoft's developer tools may be the best developer tools out there. I've used them and they are very flexible and advanced.

Grid of apps too perfect? It's a pretty old design that everybody uses and it reminds me of an iPhone. But hey! If you want to get a Windows Phone with that old design, get an HTC HD2, those phones are pretty sweet and they have that old design.

The Metro UI is a very flexible and advanced user interface. If you ever saw it, you would know it saves battery life dramatically and naturally looks beautiful. Of course, if your not a fanboy that is. If your a fanboy, you are prone to hating any awesome new thing out there that Apple doesn't invent. Even though Apple doesn't really invent it, they innovate...

Metro UI is the best that's going to be out there for a very long time. Simply, it saves battery life by being designed for black backgrounds and lots of colorful text and incredible transitions/animations. All of that eye candy is possible because of the high quality hardware making it too simple for the upcoming Windows Phones to do. Plus, you get lots of space to work with, swipe left, right, up, down, etc. I love the idea of BIG and sometimes my hand can't fit that big of a display so they innovated and made it swipe to show more. The bars at the top and bottom also use black backgrounds and it will look really nice on an OLED screen without hogging battery life, providing additional advanced features whenever you need them.

And please, I'm tired of Android, it's UI makes me think of Google iPhone, some kind of clone that seems too complex and not that great... You can thank copying ideas for that, but don't freak out because you wouldn't consider the grid of apps design, copying from the iPhone, you would consider that a MUST and that it was normal. I, for one, believe all of that is copying and it's so commonplace nowadays that I am glad that Windows Phone 7 innovates with multitouch to make something completely different and very flexible to use.

I just like it simple

Electric Jolt said,

Microsoft's developer tools may be the best developer tools out there. I've used them and they are very flexible and advanced.

Grid of apps too perfect? It's a pretty old design that everybody uses and it reminds me of an iPhone. But hey! If you want to get a Windows Phone with that old design, get an HTC HD2, those phones are pretty sweet and they have that old design.

The Metro UI is a very flexible and advanced user interface. If you ever saw it, you would know it saves battery life dramatically and naturally looks beautiful. Of course, if your not a fanboy that is. If your a fanboy, you are prone to hating any awesome new thing out there that Apple doesn't invent. Even though Apple doesn't really invent it, they innovate...

Metro UI is the best that's going to be out there for a very long time. Simply, it saves battery life by being designed for black backgrounds and lots of colorful text and incredible transitions/animations. All of that eye candy is possible because of the high quality hardware making it too simple for the upcoming Windows Phones to do. Plus, you get lots of space to work with, swipe left, right, up, down, etc. I love the idea of BIG and sometimes my hand can't fit that big of a display so they innovated and made it swipe to show more. The bars at the top and bottom also use black backgrounds and it will look really nice on an OLED screen without hogging battery life, providing additional advanced features whenever you need them.

And please, I'm tired of Android, it's UI makes me think of Google iPhone, some kind of clone that seems too complex and not that great... You can thank copying ideas for that, but don't freak out because you wouldn't consider the grid of apps design, copying from the iPhone, you would consider that a MUST and that it was normal. I, for one, believe all of that is copying and it's so commonplace nowadays that I am glad that Windows Phone 7 innovates with multitouch to make something completely different and very flexible to use.

Good post. Well said. And the Hub and Spoke UI's (Such as iPhone) is nothing new at all... It's been around forever... I applaud Microsoft for coming up with something new and innovative.

M_Lyons10 said,

Good post. Well said. And the Hub and Spoke UI's (Such as iPhone) is nothing new at all... It's been around forever... I applaud Microsoft for coming up with something new and innovative.

Yep. They can be applauded by being new and innovative, but they won't be succsessful anyway. I applaud the zeppelin, but unfortunately it is now dead.

Luis Mazza said,

Yep. They can be applauded by being new and innovative, but they won't be succsessful anyway. I applaud the zeppelin, but unfortunately it is now dead.

What the hell. You are such a fanboy. Sorry to break it to you, but if they weren't going to be successful then why is their thousands of developers? Also, why are all OEMS working with them to deliver such awesome phones? And what makes you think it's too late. We have all the time in the world buddy.

Electric Jolt said,

Microsoft's developer tools may be the best developer tools out there. I've used them and they are very flexible and advanced.

Grid of apps too perfect? It's a pretty old design that everybody uses and it reminds me of an iPhone. But hey! If you want to get a Windows Phone with that old design, get an HTC HD2, those phones are pretty sweet and they have that old design.

The Metro UI is a very flexible and advanced user interface. If you ever saw it, you would know it saves battery life dramatically and naturally looks beautiful. Of course, if your not a fanboy that is. If your a fanboy, you are prone to hating any awesome new thing out there that Apple doesn't invent. Even though Apple doesn't really invent it, they innovate...

Metro UI is the best that's going to be out there for a very long time. Simply, it saves battery life by being designed for black backgrounds and lots of colorful text and incredible transitions/animations. All of that eye candy is possible because of the high quality hardware making it too simple for the upcoming Windows Phones to do. Plus, you get lots of space to work with, swipe left, right, up, down, etc. I love the idea of BIG and sometimes my hand can't fit that big of a display so they innovated and made it swipe to show more. The bars at the top and bottom also use black backgrounds and it will look really nice on an OLED screen without hogging battery life, providing additional advanced features whenever you need them.

And please, I'm tired of Android, it's UI makes me think of Google iPhone, some kind of clone that seems too complex and not that great... You can thank copying ideas for that, but don't freak out because you wouldn't consider the grid of apps design, copying from the iPhone, you would consider that a MUST and that it was normal. I, for one, believe all of that is copying and it's so commonplace nowadays that I am glad that Windows Phone 7 innovates with multitouch to make something completely different and very flexible to use.

So basically you call others fanboys for not liking the Metro UI. Yet you think that everything that is not Microsoft is not that great and that the Metro UI is the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm lost here seriously.

I don't like the Metro UI. If it makes me an apple fanboy i lol at that since i do not own any apple products but own a 360 and Windows 7 (legal copy)

LaP said,

So basically you call others fanboys for not liking the Metro UI. Yet you think that everything that is not Microsoft is not that great and that the Metro UI is the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm lost here seriously.

I don't like the Metro UI. If it makes me an apple fanboy i lol at that since i do not own any apple products but own a 360 and Windows 7 (legal copy)

+ Millions

LaP said,

So basically you call others fanboys for not liking the Metro UI. Yet you think that everything that is not Microsoft is not that great and that the Metro UI is the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm lost here seriously.

I don't like the Metro UI. If it makes me an apple fanboy i lol at that since i do not own any apple products but own a 360 and Windows 7 (legal copy)

Well one thing you actually did get right, you are seriously lost here.

At any rate, that's why there's black suits and gray suits right? It's (the "Metro" UI) not for everybody so choose the device and OS that works for you!

Me, I don't know. Having not actually held a device running WP7 and being able to play with the interface, I find it hard as an intelligent adult to make a judgment one way or the other as to whether the Metro UI is something I can live/work with.

Given what has been accomplished within the Winmo and Android custom ROM communities and that most of us with Winmo 6.5/6.5.x phones run stuff that looks nothing like the stock "titanium" L&F of Winmo 6.5, I have fairly high expectations at this next mobile OS from MS.

For real gadget enthusiasts, regardless of your weapon of choice, WP7 brings some exciting new opportunities at the very least.

M_Lyons10 said,

Good post. Well said. And the Hub and Spoke UI's (Such as iPhone) is nothing new at all... It's been around forever... I applaud Microsoft for coming up with something new and innovative.

Same here. It's like a breath of fresh air. I've been an iPhone owner since they launched and I've just finally tired of the interface to be quite honest. It is functional, clean, fast...and utterly boring now

When I post up my smartphone screens here now and then, you know what really changes with the iPhone shots? The backgrounds lol - oh and sexier versions of the icons in some cases. Me? I had my first iPhone 2G jailbroken within a week of getting it - roughly 2 months after the launch and that was the most I was ever able to customize it. I had it themed with dark icons, backgrounds, people that had iPhones or were pondering a purchase would see mine and think "what the heck?".

But alas, it's time to move upward and onward! Too bad Apple couldn't do something fresh because I personally wouldn't have defected.

LaP said,
So basically you call others fanboys for not liking the Metro UI. Yet you think that everything that is not Microsoft is not that great and that the Metro UI is the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm lost here seriously.

I don't like the Metro UI. If it makes me an apple fanboy i lol at that since i do not own any apple products but own a 360 and Windows 7 (legal copy)

I guess you are a fanboy if you hate something without being able to explain why without referring to the competitor, or a product you love.

martinDTanderson said,

I guess you are a fanboy if you hate something without being able to explain why without referring to the competitor, or a product you love.

I think the primary reason he was being called a fanboy initially was that, in response to not every phone being an iPhone, he chimed in with:

Luis Mazza said,

Yeah... I think we have to live with that.

Which can come across as sounding like he feels that the iPhone is the superior platform, depending on how you read Internet Tone.

Fanboyism aside, I don't understand why so many people are so determined to say WP7 will fail. These are people who have never held it, never used it, probably never ran the virtual machine of it, and doubtfully watched very many videos of it. When people with such a small amount of experience come to conclusions, it's natural to assume they have some other motivating factor, and when it comes to disliking a Microsoft product, fanboyism is OFTEN a cause (whether it be Apple fanboyism that led to such gems as completely failing to realizing that W95 multitasked System 7 into oblivion, or FOSS fanboyism that blinds them from what keeps Linux off the desktop).

A remarkable (and interesting) opinion people throw around is that WP7 will fail because the Zune failed. This is interesting, because before anyone had heard of WP7, the general consensus was that Zune wasn't taking off because it wasn't offered internationally. The Zune subscription model was met with an enormous amount of approval, even from the many iPod owners here on Neowin. In fact, Zune had always been one of those products people seemed to wish was more successful, but the business model--not the product itself--held it back.

So, yeah, it's interesting how people's opinions change. And it's when people's opinions change that you start to suspect a sort of fanboyism or home-team loyalty being behind it (evidence of this abounds in politics). It's totally cool to have your own personal taste, and to say you dislike Metro UI. But if you're going to be an arse and tack "WP7 will FAIL" on the end of that, well, welcome to the Internet buddy. You just asked for an argument. Don't betch that you got one.

Joshie said,

I think the primary reason he was being called a fanboy initially was that, in response to not every phone being an iPhone, he chimed in with:

Which can come across as sounding like he feels that the iPhone is the superior platform, depending on how you read Internet Tone.

Fanboyism aside, I don't understand why so many people are so determined to say WP7 will fail. These are people who have never held it, never used it, probably never ran the virtual machine of it, and doubtfully watched very many videos of it. When people with such a small amount of experience come to conclusions, it's natural to assume they have some other motivating factor, and when it comes to disliking a Microsoft product, fanboyism is OFTEN a cause (whether it be Apple fanboyism that led to such gems as completely failing to realizing that W95 multitasked System 7 into oblivion, or FOSS fanboyism that blinds them from what keeps Linux off the desktop).

A remarkable (and interesting) opinion people throw around is that WP7 will fail because the Zune failed. This is interesting, because before anyone had heard of WP7, the general consensus was that Zune wasn't taking off because it wasn't offered internationally. The Zune subscription model was met with an enormous amount of approval, even from the many iPod owners here on Neowin. In fact, Zune had always been one of those products people seemed to wish was more successful, but the business model--not the product itself--held it back.

So, yeah, it's interesting how people's opinions change. And it's when people's opinions change that you start to suspect a sort of fanboyism or home-team loyalty being behind it (evidence of this abounds in politics). It's totally cool to have your own personal taste, and to say you dislike Metro UI. But if you're going to be an arse and tack "WP7 will FAIL" on the end of that, well, welcome to the Internet buddy. You just asked for an argument. Don't betch that you got one.

I can't be sure this thing is gonna fail because if it supports MS Office, many companies will adopt it. Maybe RIM should be worried, not Apple... But if I can't understand what's going on a simple device like this, I bet the UI is not that good. Thus it looks like Windows Media Center, in which the UI is pretty beautiful but not as practical as WMP.

martinDTanderson said,

I guess you are a fanboy if you hate something without being able to explain why without referring to the competitor, or a product you love.

Where did i say that i hate the Metro UI ?

Not liking someting != hating it. If i don't have 10 dollars you can't prove i have 9 you can just prove i don't have 10.

I'm not sold on metro UI FROM the video i saw of it in action. End of story. If you read anything else between the lines you're just assuming things. I'll reserve my final judgement when i'll by able to test it of course.

I just wanted it to be clear. If i say here that i'm not sold on an upcoming MS product from video posted of it in action then i'm automatically an apple fanboy or ms hater ... is it right ? i hope not.

Luis Mazza said,

Yep. They can be applauded by being new and innovative, but they won't be succsessful anyway. I applaud the zeppelin, but unfortunately it is now dead.

LMAO What a fanboy... LOL I'm sure if Apple released this you'd be peeing your pants...

M_Lyons10 said,

LMAO What a fanboy... LOL I'm sure if Apple released this you'd be peeing your pants...

Don't be so sure about it because I only own an iPhone and I don't like Apple products that much. I would buy a Macbook Pro though, simply because of the build quality and because it runs *MICROSOFT WINDOWS*, but for the same cash I can get better options from Sony, like a quad-core i7 with 8 gb RAM. So no... I'm not a fanboy.

Luis Mazza said,

1.2% far from Asus is within an error margin for Sony as well as 1.8% for Apple. Looks like I made a good choice. I hate HP PCs anyway.


That's dumb. If you care about build quality, you should buy from Asus. Why buy from Apple when it's in 4th place?

day2die said,

That's dumb. If you care about build quality, you should buy from Asus. Why buy from Apple when it's in 4th place?

To be dumb is to see things without questioning or analyzing it deeply. Maybe you're watching too much TV. Go get some education before calling me dumb.

This isn't gonna take off, why pay $25 for a copy of windows phone when they can use android for free, there littlevto justify the extra cost.

thealexweb said,
This isn't gonna take off, why pay $25 for a copy of windows phone when they can use android for free, there littlevto justify the extra cost.

Hopefully for support. Android is having major issues with a fragmented market where Manufacturers are not getting the support they need to get their phones working as new releases are put out. My Android phone that is not even a year old hardly works with any of the applications because it has not been updated past 1.5.

thealexweb said,
This isn't gonna take off, why pay $25 for a copy of windows phone when they can use android for free, there littlevto justify the extra cost.

Lmao I think I'm okay with the fact my phone's price has an added fee of 25 dollars.

Plus the phones so far are sweet!

incendy said,

Hopefully for support. Android is having major issues with a fragmented market where Manufacturers are not getting the support they need to get their phones working as new releases are put out. My Android phone that is not even a year old hardly works with any of the applications because it has not been updated past 1.5.

I have a phone running android 1.5 all virtually all apps work with it, you really are overexagorating the problem.

thealexweb said,
This isn't gonna take off, why pay $25 for a copy of windows phone when they can use android for free, there littlevto justify the extra cost.

Because bro, believe it or not, Android is NOT the be all-end all of mobile device OS's...it just isn't and never will be. A top player for now and in the future? without a doubt.

thealexweb said,

I have a phone running android 1.5 all virtually all apps work with it, you really are overexagorating the problem.

No, I really am not. We don't even get the official Twitter for Android or Google Navigation, heck we don't get Kindle. To make matters even worse, some of my favorite apps won't run after updates are applied. I feel very ripped off by android and I know a lot of people and developers feel the same, it is almost impossible for Devs to target users and phones because they all act different. Android is a mess

incendy said,

No, I really am not. We don't even get the official Twitter for Android or Google Navigation, heck we don't get Kindle. To make matters even worse, some of my favorite apps won't run after updates are applied. I feel very ripped off by android and I know a lot of people and developers feel the same, it is almost impossible for Devs to target users and phones because they all act different. Android is a mess

Since you didn't pay for Android you cant really be ripped off, you can moan that your phone has not received an update tho, what phone is it?

thealexweb said,

Since you didn't pay for Android you cant really be ripped off, you can moan that your phone has not received an update tho, what phone is it?

The Moto Cliq, worst phone don't know why I bought it but at the time it was really the only Tmobile android phone with a keyboard except for the G1. As for getting ripped off, I agree it is free for Manufacturers but unfortunately it isn't free for the customers. If anything it shows that free OS's are not the answer as no Manufacturers so far are able to update or release their phones with the latest version. And google keeps making API changes that leave a lot of their users out with no options available.

thealexweb said,
This isn't gonna take off, why pay $25 for a copy of windows phone when they can use android for free, there littlevto justify the extra cost.

You have no idea what's actually free regarding Android, do you? The base Android OS is free, yes, but the premium Google apps (GMail, Maps, etc.) and the support from Google to get the OS to run on the device costs money. At the end of the day, the costs between Android and WP7 for OEMs is negligable.

thealexweb said,
This isn't gonna take off, why pay $25 for a copy of windows phone when they can use android for free, there littlevto justify the extra cost.

The vendors using Android are already paying royalties for patents they have licensed from numerous parties - so the difference between getting Windows Phone 7 and Android is neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things. With Windows Phone 7, however, it provides the company with a one stop shop where the buck stops with Microsoft and the vendor focus's on making sexy phones without concerning itself with the nitty gritty of patents and other BS.

Someone really needs to work on his trolling skills.
I give you an "F".

Android is suffering from Linux disease. Too many companies doing their own thing.

lordcanti86 said,

You have no idea what's actually free regarding Android, do you? The base Android OS is free, yes, but the premium Google apps (GMail, Maps, etc.) and the support from Google to get the OS to run on the device costs money. At the end of the day, the costs between Android and WP7 for OEMs is negligable.

Huh? You have no clue what you are talking about. Android costs manufactuers zero. nada. There are no fees to do anything. Educate yourself... http://source.android.com/faqs.html

Yes, it makes no sense to pay Microsoft for a mobile os when the manufacturers can make more by using Android for free. With Chrome OS Google is going to chip away at the Microsoft tax on PCs as well.

thealexweb said,

I have a phone running android 1.5 all virtually all apps work with it, you really are overexagorating the problem.

And you're overexagerating the impact of a nominal cost of an OS...

rawr_boy81 said,

The vendors using Android are already paying royalties for patents they have licensed from numerous parties - so the difference between getting Windows Phone 7 and Android is neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things. With Windows Phone 7, however, it provides the company with a one stop shop where the buck stops with Microsoft and the vendor focus's on making sexy phones without concerning itself with the nitty gritty of patents and other BS.

+1. And the support alone provided by Microsoft allows an OEM to waste less time trying to get a phone to market...

Bullhead said,

Huh? You have no clue what you are talking about. Android costs manufactuers zero. nada. There are no fees to do anything. Educate yourself... http://source.android.com/faqs.html

Yes, it makes no sense to pay Microsoft for a mobile os when the manufacturers can make more by using Android for free. With Chrome OS Google is going to chip away at the Microsoft tax on PCs as well.

You missed my point. The BASE Android OS (a.k.a. the actual Android Open Source Project) is free. Premium Google apps (YouTube, GMail, Maps, etc.) are licensed from Google separately for a (albeit small) fee. And in order to get the OS to actually work on the device, OEMs have to spend money on R&D and support the phone themselves rather than allowing someone else to do it (I was mistaken on my original post). How did you think Red Hat made any money?

lordcanti86 said,

You missed my point. The BASE Android OS (a.k.a. the actual Android Open Source Project) is free. Premium Google apps (YouTube, GMail, Maps, etc.) are licensed from Google separately for a (albeit small) fee. And in order to get the OS to actually work on the device, OEMs have to spend money on R&D and support the phone themselves rather than allowing someone else to do it (I was mistaken on my original post). How did you think Red Hat made any money?

Googles premium apps have nothing to do with Android. What does Red Hat have to do with Android? You are just blabbering throwing out crap trying to make something stick.

So microsoft supports the hardware of Windows Phone licensees? LOL. tell that to Dell, HP, or any of the suckers making those cloner phones. Android saves the Android phone makers huge sums of money over Microsoft phones, just like Red Hat saves customers boatloads of money over Microsoft super expensive proprietary software.

GOogle and IBM have saved tens of millions a year by moving off super expensive Microsoft software. So can your company. Mine has started moving lots off Microsoft and we are saving a ton in the process.

Bullhead said,

Huh? You have no clue what you are talking about. Android costs manufactuers zero. nada. There are no fees to do anything. Educate yourself... http://source.android.com/faqs.html

Yes, it makes no sense to pay Microsoft for a mobile os when the manufacturers can make more by using Android for free. With Chrome OS Google is going to chip away at the Microsoft tax on PCs as well.


Huh? You have no clue what you are talking about. OEMs have to pay for support to even get Android on their phones. They have to set up their own team to support Android. They even have to pay for premium phone apps such as map (and every Android phone have them).

Chrome OS doesn't run any program and is only a browser; nobody wants it.

Bullhead said,

Googles premium apps have nothing to do with Android.

Yes they do, as Google charges for these apps to be distributed with Android, thus booking a cost into releasing phones with the OS... It's not *that* complicated...

Bullhead said,

So microsoft supports the hardware of Windows Phone licensees? LOL. tell that to Dell, HP, or any of the suckers making those cloner phones. Android saves the Android phone makers huge sums of money over Microsoft phones, just like Red Hat saves customers boatloads of money over Microsoft super expensive proprietary software.

First off, Microsoft supports the OEM manufacturers and assists them with the release of devices running their OS's and any technical issues they may run into. Microsoft will even help them with application development that the OEM might want to ship with their phones (Microsoft has a group dedicated to this). Android has none of this, and in fact several OEM's have gone on record stating that this made developing Windows Phone 7 devices substantially cheaper than Android devices. Meaning that the cost of the OS is negligible...

Of course, you will try to twist this post or ignore it completely because you seem only interested in trolling this discussion...

Seems like MS is in a really good position to take the smartphone industry by storm, so long as they keep their oem partners in check.

* MS Exchange support should be the best
* MS Office 2010 integration should be the best
* Games with XBox live integration should be the best
* Zune HD like media playback capabilities should be very competitive with iPhone.

The ball is in their court and it has been for awhile... They are positioned to have the best of all worlds. But I think that some of their oem

... Partners are going to fall short. Most people will go with the cheapest POS phone verizon offers for free on contract. This will give win phone 7 a bad name. Just like Windows. Works great when the hardware is great.

Shadrack said,
... Partners are going to fall short. Most people will go with the cheapest POS phone verizon offers for free on contract. This will give win phone 7 a bad name. Just like Windows. Works great when the hardware is great.

That's why there is a system requirement for Windows Phone 7. Microsoft doesn't want the race to the bottom.

day2die said,

That's why there is a system requirement for Windows Phone 7. Microsoft doesn't want the race to the bottom.

The problem with system requirements is that you can meet them and still use cheep, buggy parts... or for instance you can meet system requirements, but not have your cooling worked out well leading to a buggy phone. Its the exact same song and dance as Windows. Someone buys a crappy E-Machine thats buggy as hell because of crap hardware, and the user blames Microsoft.

Google has been doing well with Android through multiple OEMs. Hopefully MS will have the same success.

Shadrack said,
Seems like MS is in a really good position to take the smartphone industry by storm, so long as they keep their oem partners in check.

* MS Exchange support should be the best
* MS Office 2010 integration should be the best
* Games with XBox live integration should be the best
* Zune HD like media playback capabilities should be very competitive with iPhone.

The ball is in their court and it has been for awhile... They are positioned to have the best of all worlds. But I think that some of their oem


MS has a talent surprising people and making a mess out of a good idea.

Shadrack said,

The problem with system requirements is that you can meet them and still use cheep, buggy parts... or for instance you can meet system requirements, but not have your cooling worked out well leading to a buggy phone. Its the exact same song and dance as Windows. Someone buys a crappy E-Machine thats buggy as hell because of crap hardware, and the user blames Microsoft.

Google has been doing well with Android through multiple OEMs. Hopefully MS will have the same success.

You have a point. The only difference I see in the phone market is that the hardware seems to supersede the OS. If the phone is crap, the user blames LG before the OS running on it. Whereas on PC's it's the other way around. I don't understand this, but it's what I've observed... I don't know if anyone else has noticed this.

Shadrack said,

The problem with system requirements is that you can meet them and still use cheep, buggy parts... or for instance you can meet system requirements, but not have your cooling worked out well leading to a buggy phone. Its the exact same song and dance as Windows. Someone buys a crappy E-Machine thats buggy as hell because of crap hardware, and the user blames Microsoft.

Google has been doing well with Android through multiple OEMs. Hopefully MS will have the same success.


MSFT is making sure that every WP7 device is certified to work perfectly with the mobile OS. Check the slide back from Mix event.

Lets see what Balmer can do. Now that he heads the mobile division at Microsoft by himself.
From what I know about the OS its a huge step backwards from previous Microsoft Mobile OS.
It seems to have failure written all over it.

With Android around. Windows Phone 7 looks terribly unappealing.

figgy said,
Lets see what Balmer can do. Now that he heads the mobile division at Microsoft by himself.
From what I know about the OS its a huge step backwards from previous Microsoft Mobile OS.
It seems to have failure written all over it.

With Android around. Windows Phone 7 looks terribly unappealing.


Android will self-destruct from fragmentations. At least with Windows Phone 7, it will get updates directly from Microsoft not OEMs.

day2die said,

Android will self-destruct from fragmentations. At least with Windows Phone 7, it will get updates directly from Microsoft not OEMs.

OEMs will have updates for their apps and stuff as well but even those have to go through MS before they go out which is a smart move.

day2die said,

Android will self-destruct from fragmentations. At least with Windows Phone 7, it will get updates directly from Microsoft not OEMs.

well that or it will end up like linux on desktops with a million different distros to confuse people

day2die said,
Android will self-destruct from fragmentations. At least with Windows Phone 7, it will get updates directly from Microsoft not OEMs.

Or worse OEM vendors telling customers to go take a hike when a new version of Android comes out - we've already started to see vendors refuse to provide an Android 2.2 update for some existing devices so I think that is pretty revealing about the future direction of Android. The iPhone and Windows Phone 7 on the other hand will allow you to keep your devices for 2-3 years and keep upgrading to your hearts content.

day2die said,

Android will self-destruct from fragmentations. At least with Windows Phone 7, it will get updates directly from Microsoft not OEMs.

Windows Phones today are totally fragmented. Windows phones in the future will be totally fragmented. The only way to not be fragmented is to do what Apple does and own the whole stack.

day2die said,

Android will self-destruct from fragmentations. At least with Windows Phone 7, it will get updates directly from Microsoft not OEMs.

Exactly. Just as that hurt Windows Mobile in the end, it will hurt Android...

Bullhead said,

Windows Phones today are totally fragmented. Windows phones in the future will be totally fragmented. The only way to not be fragmented is to do what Apple does and own the whole stack.

Windows Mobile WAS fragmented, as it was left up to the OEM to compile and release. Windows Phone going forward does not follow this model, as all updates and everything comes direct from Microsoft. Meaning that there is 1 version, which is about as far from fragmented as you can get. LOL

M_Lyons10 said,

Exactly. Just as that hurt Windows Mobile in the end, it will hurt Android...

Windows Mobile WAS fragmented, as it was left up to the OEM to compile and release. Windows Phone going forward does not follow this model, as all updates and everything comes direct from Microsoft. Meaning that there is 1 version, which is about as far from fragmented as you can get. LOL

So what you are saying is you have no clue what fragmentation is? It is differing versions of hardware and software. Developers have no target, so they can only target the lowest common denominator which means a poor experience. Buy a top end phone and you only can run crappy software made for the low spec hardware versions.

Why make hardware for the Windows Phone OS, what is going to differentiate a HP from a Dell, from a Lenovo if Microsoft tightens the requirements up to an Apple standard? I know if i was HP, Dell, or Lenovo i would not just want to be a cloner like they are today with Windows desktop. There is nothing to differentiate yourself....just a cloner of cheapo crap hardware sending large checks to Microsoft for their super expensive software.

Bullhead said,

So what you are saying is you have no clue what fragmentation is? It is differing versions of hardware and software. Developers have no target, so they can only target the lowest common denominator which means a poor experience. Buy a top end phone and you only can run crappy software made for the low spec hardware versions.

Why make hardware for the Windows Phone OS, what is going to differentiate a HP from a Dell, from a Lenovo if Microsoft tightens the requirements up to an Apple standard? I know if i was HP, Dell, or Lenovo i would not just want to be a cloner like they are today with Windows desktop. There is nothing to differentiate yourself....just a cloner of cheapo crap hardware sending large checks to Microsoft for their super expensive software.


So what you are saying is you have no clue what you are talking about? There are so many different kind of computers running Windows, yet developers are able to produce programs for them. What would make a phone any different? I could buy the cheapest E-machine or I could buy Asus if I want it to last a long time. OEMs are able to distinguish themselves by shipping custom apps for their own phone.

Bullhead said,

So what you are saying is you have no clue what fragmentation is? It is differing versions of hardware and software. Developers have no target, so they can only target the lowest common denominator which means a poor experience. Buy a top end phone and you only can run crappy software made for the low spec hardware versions.

Why make hardware for the Windows Phone OS, what is going to differentiate a HP from a Dell, from a Lenovo if Microsoft tightens the requirements up to an Apple standard? I know if i was HP, Dell, or Lenovo i would not just want to be a cloner like they are today with Windows desktop. There is nothing to differentiate yourself....just a cloner of cheapo crap hardware sending large checks to Microsoft for their super expensive software.

I'm sorry to say that having read your posts, it's YOU that really have no idea what you're talking about. Fragmentation is NOT an OEM's ability to personalize their hardware... And, they are still able to do this even with Microsoft's requirements. There's a lot they can do to make a phone visually appealing, user friendly, etc.

Fragmentation is what Windows Mobile suffered from, and now Android is suffering from. That being the OEM's customizing the OS to a degree that the OS releases are reliant on the OEM and not the OS manufacturer. This means that updates to the OS are not guaranteed, could take months to trickle down from the OEM, etc.

I don't really understand why you're posting on this article as if you understand the market, or development whatsoever, as it's quite clear you do not. I mean, to then say that there are no developers or apps? Every Windows app developer can develop for Windows Phone 7 and I've seen a number of apps already on their way. The games platform is the same as used for XBox games, and has a tremendous amount of support... Why pretend that you know something when it's clear you do not? I don't understand...

kazuyenPH said,
I hope it is much cheaper than iPhone or Android Phones. My God im stuck with this motorola k1

With the Snapdragon and 256MB RAM as minimum requirement, I doubt it.

kazuyenPH said,
I hope it is much cheaper than iPhone or Android Phones. My God im stuck with this motorola k1

dont get your hopes up...

kazuyenPH said,
I hope it is much cheaper than iPhone or Android Phones. My God im stuck with this motorola k1

They kind of have to be. One of the things that Apple can get away with on their computers is that they are the only ones selling OSX. So they have no one to compete with on pricing. However, on the windows side of things you have many OEMs that have to compete with each other on price. So you get better specs for cheaper.

I don't see why this would be any different in the smartphone market.

daniel_rh said,
Oh yeah, waiting for my HTC HD3 or Dell with WP7

Yeah, if the HD3 specs are true, it sounds like a good phone. Dell I don't trust at all due to issues in the past. I really can't wait to see what sorts of phones come out. Hopefully something with Super AMOLED...

LaP said,
Still not sold on the UI.

Because you been program to like the Icons on screen...like every other phone..

Think different my friend.......

LaP said,
Still not sold on the UI.

Fair enough, it's fresh and that's a hard pill to swallow for some people. I'm just personally glad smartphone UI's have really evolved past some simple grid of icons and then grids of squares with icons and on ad nauseum.

LaP said,
Still not sold on the UI.

Yeah. Have to wonder why they would take the failed Zune OS and use that on their phone. No one buys the Zune and its horrible OS is one of the reasons.

Bullhead said,

Yeah. Have to wonder why they would take the failed Zune OS and use that on their phone. No one buys the Zune and its horrible OS is one of the reasons.

Failed? Oh please!

People just buy what they have always owned. Trust me on this, as I used to do it.

You buy an iPod, use it for a few years and you really liked it. Then it breaks. Instead of looking around for a different brand to purchase eg. Zune, they just buy the same the same iPod. Happens every time.

Myself, I live in Australia where the Zune is not sold. I own one, and being a 15 year old still in school my Zune grabs a bit of attention by not only geeks but those people who have no idea about technology so they just buy what they have always had.

What do all these people say? I would say that 90% of people (and I show it to a lot of people) that have used my Zune HD love it. That is saying something since most of them own the iPod Touch. They LOVE the UI, they enjoy all the cool music features, they enjoy the beautiful OLED screen and even though it only has 20 or so apps even they are great. Then when I state the price of this ($190 USD for 16GB) they almost fall over.

10 or so of my friends now own Zunes, and a lot more now use the Software as it is way superior to iTunes. They just use iTunes to sync there iPod.

I think of the iPod Touch/iPhone (I own an iPhone 3G btw) as a child's toy. All those icons on the spring board, app store full of 200 thousand apps most of which are crap, that expensive price tag and not to mention the shocking battery.

The Zune is real classy. It has amazing typography and amazing features. Just a shame most people judge it before they even use it.

Bullhead said,

Yeah. Have to wonder why they would take the failed Zune OS and use that on their phone. No one buys the Zune and its horrible OS is one of the reasons.


we own zunes... and I like them

mackenziepricee said,

Failed? Oh please!

You can make whatever excuses your employer tells you to astroturf the interwebs with...the fact is, when there is competition, the Zune simply does not measure up. Apple did not gain an illegally obtained monopoly in portable media players. They simply turned out devices which are light years ahead of the competition.

The Microsoft Zune is a total failure. How many have sold? Apple sells more ipods in a day than Microsoft sells Zunes in total since they came out. The reason being, the iPod + iTunes is lightyears ahead in technology...both hardware and software. The ZUne OS is a fugly broken OS which no one outside of die hard Microsoftties like. Text scolling off the screen...yeah that makes sense visually...LOL.

Bullhead said,

You can make whatever excuses your employer tells you to astroturf the interwebs with...the fact is, when there is competition, the Zune simply does not measure up. Apple did not gain an illegally obtained monopoly in portable media players. They simply turned out devices which are light years ahead of the competition.

The Microsoft Zune is a total failure. How many have sold? Apple sells more ipods in a day than Microsoft sells Zunes in total since they came out. The reason being, the iPod + iTunes is lightyears ahead in technology...both hardware and software. The ZUne OS is a fugly broken OS which no one outside of die hard Microsoftties like. Text scolling off the screen...yeah that makes sense visually...LOL.


Mac OS X must be a total failure since 95% of the world uses Windows.
Give it up Apple fanboy; I know that Windows Phone 7 scare you off.

mackenziepricee said,

Failed? Oh please!

People just buy what they have always owned. Trust me on this, as I used to do it.

You buy an iPod, use it for a few years and you really liked it. Then it breaks. Instead of looking around for a different brand to purchase eg. Zune, they just buy the same the same iPod. Happens every time.

Then why a lot of people bought an Xbox when it came out instead of a GameCube. And why people buy a 360 instead of a PS3.

XBox sells very well even if it needs to fight against 2 products by well established companies in the video game market like Sony and Nintendo.

I've used both the iPod and the Zune (i own a Sansa) and i do prefer the iPod UI. If i had to pay a ridiculous price for a Mp3 player (will not happen) it would be the iPod Touch no doubt about it. And from what i see of Win mo 7 in the video i would definately buy an iPhone before that (i used the iPhone). But i own a blackberry and wont change.

Frazell Thomas said,

I'm sure they will to some degree. It has been long understood that you can't trust the signal strength reported by your phone. That's why us Windows Mobile CDMA users often check a tool like FieldTool to get an accurate reading. Signals bars have ALWAYS been misleading.

http://www.pcoperative.com/ppc...c_tp/Field_trial_debug2.jpg

Ok, perhaps I should clarify - WP7 devices won't ship with broken reception when you apply your hands to it. Better? Nice dissertation on signal bars though...really.

I can't wait for the reviews where this one will face Android. For Microsoft's sake, I hope shipping WP7 with a non-feature complete version of the OS won't bite them in the ass in the early all-so-important reviews. There are not many second chances in this business once a brand name has been tainted. I can picture especially the incomplete network API so that VoIP apps won't run won't pass unnoticed by the reviewers.

Northgrove said,
...There are not many second chances in this business once a brand name has been tainted.

Yet Apple still seems to sell iPhones by the palette. And by "non-feature complete version of the OS" do you mean, like no working phone? Yeah, I highly doubt that

zkid2010 said,

Yet Apple still seems to sell iPhones by the palette. And by "non-feature complete version of the OS" do you mean, like no working phone? Yeah, I highly doubt that


No, I just mean what I say.

Northgrove said,
For Microsoft's sake, I hope shipping WP7 with a non-feature complete version of the OS won't bite them in the ass in the early all-so-important reviews.

Yup, that must be why nobody bought the iPhone 2G when it first come out without copy and paste and Apple almost went bankrupt.

Northgrove said,
I can't wait for the reviews where this one will face Android. For Microsoft's sake, I hope shipping WP7 with a non-feature complete version of the OS won't bite them in the ass in the early all-so-important reviews. There are not many second chances in this business once a brand name has been tainted. I can picture especially the incomplete network API so that VoIP apps won't run won't pass unnoticed by the reviewers.

I think they'll update it often and faster than people expect. Also like other said, even Android wasn't worth it till around v1.6 at best, many would say not till 2.0. So it's all relative, power users are the minority of a growing smartphone market where most of the new buyers don't care if you don't have something specific they might use once in a blue moon.

Northgrove said,

No, I just mean what I say.

About that, can you cite your sources for the "shipping WP7 with a non-feature complete version of the OS" bit? Since you mean what you say and all of that...

GP007 said,
I think they'll update it often and faster than people expect. Also like other said, even Android wasn't worth it till around v1.6 at best, many would say not till 2.0. So it's all relative, power users are the minority of a growing smartphone market where most of the new buyers don't care if you don't have something specific they might use once in a blue moon.

That sounds about right - from what I understand alot of the 'missing features are 3/4 done but they don't want to include it without sufficient testing so I'd say that '7.1' will be around the corner in the next 6 months to include many of the missing features. For me and for many others the missing copy and paste was not a massive loss of functionality - so I think that the lack of certain features will be over blown if the focus by reviewers are on those rather than the over all functionality.

GP007 said,

I think they'll update it often and faster than people expect. Also like other said, even Android wasn't worth it till around v1.6 at best, many would say not till 2.0. So it's all relative, power users are the minority of a growing smartphone market where most of the new buyers don't care if you don't have something specific they might use once in a blue moon.

I have to agree. I really think that Microsoft is preparing for an OS that they can (And will) update rather rapidly. Even when they talk about features in the OS as is, they're talking about what this will do in the future. They have big plans, and I wouldn't be surprised if development wasn't already under way... I mean, they did show some game functionality that allowed you to pause games, so that has to be at least functional at this stage (Maybe just not feature complete or as stable as they would like).

Overall, the biggest issue I see here is not including the ability to perform micro transactions. This I think might be a bit of an issue for some app developers, so hopefully Microsoft pushes that update out soon.