Poor HTC, profits down yet again

HTC finished 2012 strongly. Shares were up following the Apple licensing agreement coupled with strong reviews and feedback for the Windows Phone 8X, it looked like 2013 was going to be a good year for the Taiwanese phone giant. Sometimes it pays not to be too optimistic.

HTC have just announced their financials for Q4 of 2012. Profits have hit an eight year low, pulling in just NT$1 billion (Taiwanese dollars) or $34 million US. While $34 million would be lovely in anyone’s account, the fact that Q4 2011 allowed HTC to record a profit of NT$11.02 (approximately $380 million US) shows just how competition from Samsung, and likely legal bills from prior to the Apple deal, has hit HTC. Their overall revenue dropped 41% to NT$60 billion, in line with internal and external analyst predictions.

The writing was on the wall, with Q4 expected to show that HTC’s purse strings would be slack compared to previous years. But HTC CEO Peter Chou told the Wall Street Journal that things would be easier in 2013, going as far to say that marketing issues and ferocious competition were to blame for their shaky 2012.

Our competitors were too strong and very resourceful, pouring in lots of money into marketing. We haven’t done enough on the marketing front.

Benjamin Ho has since replaced former Chief Marketing Officer John Wang, so at least that’s one thing that HTC has done in an attempt to turn their fortunes around.

Did you receive an HTC device for Christmas, Thanksgiving, or a birthday in the last three months of 2012? Is the device what you expected? Better? Worse?! We’d love to know.

Source: TechCrunch

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Too bad in my opinion, HTC has beautiful designs and solidly built hardware. They have been my go to handset for a few years and continue to be. I hope things turn around for them.

first of all,I love HTC phones. I've always bought HTC phones before any other company. When I was buying a windows phone 8 device,I looked at all 3,lumia,ativs and 8x. the 8x ,the design is beautiful,the device looks awesome,but there were a few design choices that completely eliminated them for me. They have the smallest battery of all 3,and they are using an LCD screen. See the problem with that? Battery life is not going to be comparable to the other phones. That was the main thing that turned me off and got me to go with the others. Ativ s for example has a 500mah extra juice,and their screen is OLED. Thats huge boost in battery life.

I must have been lucky. My HTC Raider is a solid phone. Simply designed and not a mark on it. Screen is big and bright and overall it's a fine phone. Battery takes a bit of a beating on LTE because it's one of the earlier phones but on HSPA+ it'll last about 36 hours with moderate use and I can live with that.

Could not be happier to be perfectly honest. HTC Must have the worst customer service i've ever experienced (2 months to replace a damaged phone) UGH! I would NEVER touch a HTC phone with a barge pole again. Nasty, Nasty company.

JSemple3 said,
Could not be happier to be perfectly honest. HTC Must have the worst customer service i've ever experienced (2 months to replace a damaged phone) UGH! I would NEVER touch a HTC phone with a barge pole again. Nasty, Nasty company.

I think this is part of the problem - I dont know which country you are posting from but, I had nothing but good service from HTC UK - they turned around my phone in 4 days - 2 of that was shipping! I get the feeling the type of service you receive depends on where you are in the world - this should not be the case

not surprised, their low end phones are expensive for the specifications and they often don't release software updates. The desire c isn't getting an upgrade to 4.1. HTC always claim that their low end 512mb phones can't get new android updates as they have too little memory yet htc then releases a new phone with 512mb with the latest version of android and often with the same cpu too proving that they lied.

Not a fan of htc due to their lack of android updates and high prices.

That's it. In a low and mid range HTC keep making old outdated phones just changing names. Remember HTC Legend? Aria, Gratia, Freestyle, Salsa, Wildfire S, Desire C - just new names for. Yeah, there were few changes. Latest versions got slightly more ROM and RAM. But in overall it same old phone just with new name. Desire V got slightly improved screen, but it's in rest same to Desire C.
One V is same old Desire S and Rhyme
Desire X is same old Incredible S
One S is very much similar to Sensation and has very pooor battery.

It just boring. Low range and mid range are all outdated, low functional with poor batteries, yet highly expensive. Top is not less expensive. One X+, only available in 64GB version, cost 29000 rub comparing to 21500 of Galaxy SIII. One X is not a competitor to SGS III, yet again, because of battery.

It's not about marketing like HTC CEO believes. It's about quality, functionality and price.

Sorry to say but early HTC phones were of a decent quality but the last couple of years their stuff just doesn`t feel like it`s built with decent materials. They feel cheap, flimsy and not well made. Couple that with the update scenario and is it any wonder people go elsewhere.

Nokia`s by comparison actaully feel solid when in the hand.

I had a new 8X turn up, was impressed with the build quality till I turned it on... unit froze on the boot screen and stayed there I couldn't even turn the unit off. Took it back to the shop and changed it for an iPhone (against better judgement) and even that has been replaced twice now Not having a good time with phones at the moment

Here is what they need to do:
-make an android phone. it will sell in droves because there is such shortage of good android phones.
-profit.

oh wait, that's what they do. jez

Nobody really cares about removable battery. If there is something wrong with it people simply buys new phones, not new batteries.

lomas said,
do you really throw away your phone just because your battery is dying..?

Yes. Most batteries will last 2-3 years under normal use, which by the time it comes around, it's time for a new phone.

Gladiatorus said,
I'm nobody

Agreed, I am nobody as well. I have an HTC HD2 where the battery finally gave up on me a few weeks ago (had it since nov 2010 - 2 yr old phone, still going strong - after new battery that is). Going to buy another for $6 online and be back in business. Better than spending $300+ that I dont have. So for me, I like removable batteries.

Then if you going to buy a new battery instead of a new phone, why they should mind about making the phone that you won't buy?

A vast majority would prefer a larger charge rather than wasted space for a large battery slot.

I've had an 8X for a month now and it's an absolute stunner. I've had zero problems so far.

I hope they can turn things around cause they really do make some of the best hardware I've ever seen.

I ended up with a Desire HD on Telus that never really received much in upgrades.

HTC promised ICS for Desire HD users as we never really received much of anything in terms of updates for our phone. At the last minute they decided agains ICS on the Desire HD and pulled the ICS upgrade for it.

Wasn't really impressed with my Desire HD for very long and HTC yanking a promised upgrade was the nail in the coffin for me considering another HTC phone.

Yea, HTC doesn't seem to be good with updates. My One V had only been out for probably about 6 months before they decided to basically stop supporting it by not bringing JB to it.

This, they did a record three u-turns before deciding at the last minute not to, I've got Jelly Bean on my Desire HD but thats not the point. HTC is dead to me...

yeah, android business is good for everyone... HTC goes down and down, LG is in the sink, Sony sells more PS2s than phones and Motorola... well, they are just a repository of patents for google

The irony in your statement of course is that their profits are dropping even AFTER increasing Windows Phone adoption.

HTC's problems have little to do with their choice of Operating System (as much as you'd like it to be true), and everything to do with the rapidly falling quality of their phones.

Majesticmerc said,
The irony in your statement of course is that their profits are dropping even AFTER increasing Windows Phone adoption.

HTC's problems have little to do with their choice of Operating System (as much as you'd like it to be true), and everything to do with the rapidly falling quality of their phones.

I'm sorry but it's a well known fact that the only handset maker that is actually making money off Android is Samsung as the OP has stated, they have pretty much all gone down the drain and I think that is why HTC has adopted WP8 its because they see it has potential and not monopolised by one handset brand and early days will pay off for them. If they can get there brand out there with Nokia as leading handset makers for WP then they could start yielding large profits like Samsung has done using Android. The galaxy line is pretty much synonymous with Android and that's what HTC needs but doesn't have (yet).

load of crap, wp8 wasn't even out back in 2011 when HTC started to plummet and that tendency simply continued until they decided not to adopt wp but increase its significance across their product range;

as for the lg nexus 4 i'm not saying these companies make BAD products or they get bad reviews, i'm talking about them making actual MONEY, which they don't - the only OEM that feeds off android is Samsung and the relatively small or relatively unknown companies from the little tigers' area and china, but most of them aren't competing on eurpoean or american markets, at least not on the extent of the abovementioned ones

so yes, android did wonders to the mobile companies - they get hit hard or in case of motorola even worse while Samsung gets the whole pie

Majesticmerc said,
The irony in your statement of course is that their profits are dropping even AFTER increasing Windows Phone adoption.

HTC's problems have little to do with their choice of Operating System (as much as you'd like it to be true), and everything to do with the rapidly falling quality of their phones.


Which low quality phones have they released recently? What are you talking about dude?

Majesticmerc said,
The irony in your statement of course is that their profits are dropping even AFTER increasing Windows Phone adoption.

HTC's problems have little to do with their choice of Operating System (as much as you'd like it to be true), and everything to do with the rapidly falling quality of their phones.

I don't see any significant dip in quality, it's stil mediocre to good just like most Android OEMs (incl. Samsung).

Android is part of the problem because even with a customizable OS like Android there isn't much OEMs can do to differentiate from eachother. Once Samsung became the first Android OEM to succesfully market their own brand within the Android ecosystem the other OEMs took a hit. Galaxy is now a more powerful brand than Android.

Windows Phone hasn't taken off as it tries to penetrate a saturated market. But it is a unique OS and there are also growing markets where it has just launched. So while Nokia is focusing on building the Lumia brand there is room for HTC to work together with Microsoft and build the Windows Phone brand. Which is why the 8X and 8S are simply known as signature Windows Phones ''by HTC'. It's a risk but if WP8 takes off it will take HTC with it. Supply shortages prevent us from getting a good picture of WP8's adoption but the Q1 2013 figures should tell us much more.

Majesticmerc said,
The irony in your statement of course is that their profits are dropping even AFTER increasing Windows Phone adoption.

HTC's problems have little to do with their choice of Operating System (as much as you'd like it to be true), and everything to do with the rapidly falling quality of their phones.


Wrong, it's their marketing that's killing them... I NEVER see any ads on my TV networks that show an HTC device. All I see is Samshit ads, which make me puke.

Disclaimer: Wall of Text inbound.

morden said,
load of crap, wp8 wasn't even out back in 2011 when HTC started to plummet and that tendency simply continued until they decided not to adopt wp but increase its significance across their product range;

as for the lg nexus 4 i'm not saying these companies make BAD products or they get bad reviews, i'm talking about them making actual MONEY, which they don't - the only OEM that feeds off android is Samsung and the relatively small or relatively unknown companies from the little tigers' area and china, but most of them aren't competing on eurpoean or american markets, at least not on the extent of the abovementioned ones

so yes, android did wonders to the mobile companies - they get hit hard or in case of motorola even worse while Samsung gets the whole pie

ingramator said,
I'm sorry but it's a well known fact that the only handset maker that is actually making money off Android is Samsung as the OP has stated, they have pretty much all gone down the drain and I think that is why HTC has adopted WP8 its because they see it has potential and not monopolised by one handset brand and early days will pay off for them. If they can get there brand out there with Nokia as leading handset makers for WP then they could start yielding large profits like Samsung has done using Android. The galaxy line is pretty much synonymous with Android and that's what HTC needs but doesn't have (yet).

How is what I said load of crap? Did we all just conveniently forget that HTC's first Windows Phone came out in 2010? I'm not saying that HTC's problems were caused by Windows Phone, not at all; my point is that HTC's profit margin has been sliding regardless of which OS they use.

A lot of the Android manufacturers are struggling not because of Android for any reason in particular (although there is an element of "why would I get this when I could get a Galaxy?"). They're struggling because the smartphone market is very saturated. This is why Windows Phone is gaining adoption so slowly. It's not because Windows Phone is a bad OS, not even slightly, but because there are already TONS of smartphones on the market running Android, iOS, BBOS, etc.

Jarrichvdv said,
Which low quality phones have they released recently? What are you talking about dude?

Ronnet said,
I don't see any significant dip in quality, it's stil mediocre to good just like most Android OEMs (incl. Samsung).

No low quality phones in particular, but their handsets do seem to have common issues. My One X rattles and the screen flexes at the corners (both known issues), their One S almost got recalled because of the chipping paint. There's even an article here on Neowin from the 30th December talking about firmware, battery and Handset colour issues in the 8X (see: http://www.neowin.net/news/how...-phone-8x-could-be-improved).

Compare this to the HTC of 2010, the Desire was rock solid, I didn't know a single person who disliked it. Now all I ever seem to hear is "My HTC is great, but..." That's just anecdotal though.

Ronnet said,
Android is part of the problem because even with a customizable OS like Android there isn't much OEMs can do to differentiate from eachother. Once Samsung became the first Android OEM to succesfully market their own brand within the Android ecosystem the other OEMs took a hit. Galaxy is now a more powerful brand than Android.

Windows Phone hasn't taken off as it tries to penetrate a saturated market. But it is a unique OS and there are also growing markets where it has just launched. So while Nokia is focusing on building the Lumia brand there is room for HTC to work together with Microsoft and build the Windows Phone brand. Which is why the 8X and 8S are simply known as signature Windows Phones ''by HTC'. It's a risk but if WP8 takes off it will take HTC with it. Supply shortages prevent us from getting a good picture of WP8's adoption but the Q1 2013 figures should tell us much more.

Android isn't part of the problem because it isn't customizable, if anything it's completely the opposite. Android's customizability for both manufacturers and user's far outweighs that of iOS and Windows Phone and it's very easy to tell an HTC phone from a Samsung phone. If anything, customization is a PROBLEM for Android because it results in a whole mess of different UI's. HTC in particular have a problem with this because Sense looks quite out of date nowadays compared to the default style of ICS and JB.

No, they are stupid for hopping on the marketing bandwagon of the SGS3, which is no where near as good a phone as some that offered by HTC and LG.

This is what happens when you have a company like Samshit pump billions into marketing, giving carriers kickbacks for pushing only their products, and having reps lie to consumers in order to sell their ****.

If HTC went hard on marketing, I guarantee they'd be more successful!

They make unlocking the boot loaders annoying, and take long to release kernel sources. Their devices are also so uncommon that rom support severely lacks. When they get a superb device like the DNA, its locked to one carrier and never reaches canada.

They would have at least one more sale with me, if the stupid ****s would just release the Butterfly in the UK...

Not impressed with the battery life of my HTC 8X at all Also a bit worried at reports of peeling on the polycarbonate body, although I don't have that yet after two weeks of daily use.

Kinda concerned about the body too, but none yet for me either.
My mate got an 8X and had it die on the 4th there. Got a brand new one the next day, but he's still less than optimistic on the HTC brand now. Although, I've not had any of the performance/rebooting issues he or anyone else has reported.
I've noticed though that if I don't use the phone too much (went about 7 hours from about 9:30am to 4:30pm without using it) I get great life out of the battery. That's with WiFi and mobile data on too.
Maybe I'm just lucky, lol

I as well have had the 8X for 2 weeks, still pretty happy with it, I have LTE off right now and only use it when I need it.
I never liked HTC and this is the first device I've bought from them, why? Because it looks nice and the hardware specs are good too.
What I'm dreading is the paint peeling (I hope it doesn't because I'm happy with the phone)

I had my 8X for 3weeks now, and I have no complaints. Love the phone.
1. Did not have any random reboot that I've read here. Not a single one.
2. Battery life has been better than expected, compared to HTC Radar 4G. It lasts 1 and 1/2 day with my normal use (web, email, text, music).
3. Since I have a case over it, I do not worry about the paint being rubbed off.

All in all, my experience is great.