Rumor: Sony removed PS4's camera to undercut price of Xbox One

When Sony first revealed the PlayStation 4 console in February, it also showed off the PlayStation 4 Eye, a new version of the Eye camera that made its debut with the PlayStation 3. Now there's word that the camera was supposed to be included in all bundles of the PS4 but Sony decided just before E3 2013 to sell the camera as an add-on product instead.

IGN, via unnamed sources, claims that Sony made the decision to cut the camera to lower the price of the console down to just $399. The article claims that had the camera been included, as Microsoft is doing with the Xbox One's Kinect camera and sensor, the price of the PS4 would be $499, the same price as the Xbox One. Sony has not commented on the report.

If true, the decision to remove the camera may have given Sony a leg up on Microsoft in terms of the base price of their respective consoles. However, making the PlayStation 4 Eye camera an add-on product instead of a required device means that not all game developers will take advantage of it. It also means that the PS4's DualShock 4 controllers could see its integrated LED features used sparingly in games.

Source: IGN | Image via Sony

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If I wanted motion controls I'd get a Wii U, I don't want a camera for my PS4 anyways. They made the right move.
Also, there's so many trolls in here bashing the PS4 because it doesn't include a camera. People complain in the forums all the time that they don't want a Kinect but suddenly when it comes to attempting to 1-up the PS4 everyone wants Kinect. Am I the only one who noticed this?

Tha Bloo Monkee said,
If I wanted motion controls I'd get a Wii U, I don't want a camera for my PS4 anyways. They made the right move.
Also, there's so many trolls in here bashing the PS4 because it doesn't include a camera. People complain in the forums all the time that they don't want a Kinect but suddenly when it comes to attempting to 1-up the PS4 everyone wants Kinect. Am I the only one who noticed this?

I don't knock Sony for not having an camera... That's fine...
I complain because all they have done is give you a new graphics card and a new case... And that's the truth...
You save $100 now what???
But what is the PS4??? What is its vision???

Because very thing the PS4 is becoming... The XB360 already is...
The Gakai thing can be interesting... But once again Sony gets a free pass for not being ready...

I'm tired of the "they spying on us approach".... I'm pretty you've probably been spied on long before the XB1 was thought about...
Some person in a coffee shop can be spying on you just by keystrokes alone...

I have a Wii U ... And it's slow... Always a loading circle even for the most petty things...

Sony's free passes...

Cell hard to code for = free pass
No pack in headset for PS3 = free pass
PSN horrid bandwidth on Sony's back end = free pass
They gave us free games during a huge breach = free pass (I will give a partial pass because of hackers today) but NO ENCRYPTION... UNACCEPTABLE
Horrid Programmer pa who brick their own console a few times a year = free pass...

Let Micorosft do one thing and it's "Burn them at the Steak"....

One of Sony's smartest moves I'd say. MS will learn the hard way, the widget hype only lasts so long and it's not sustainable to compete in the console market space, something Nintendo learned the hard way.

This is all you need to know:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>[Blog Post] Xbox at BUILD and Microsoft's Collaboration with <a href="https://twitter.com/unity3d">@unity3d</a>; <a href="http://t.co/PjvoBHhKwQ"&g...Q</a></p>&mdash; Larry Hryb (@majornelson) <a href="https://twitter.com/majornelso...4975391629312">June 27, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


XBOX ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Microsoft wants to drive kinect development, and making it part of the system (and forced to have it connected) is a way to increase adoption to developers.

Sony's playing it safe, but at the cost of minimal / nitsch development use of their semi-hands free system. There gambling the $100 cheaper price will help win more over > the features of kinect.

I understand why they did this to cut costs, but they totally killed the Eye's chances of being used by doing so. I find it really funny considering your now have a bright light on your controller that has no purpose other than to reflect off the screen of your tv.

Maybe now they can redesign the controllers to remove that stupid LED for tracking as they've effectively killed any usage of the PS4 Eye out with specifically designed titles. Kudos on short sightedness Sony.

Now with any luck, nobody will buy the camera, causing no developer to implement anything using the camera, and the console will benefit as a result,

Not really surprised they did they did this. In fact it was quite obvious given they delayed their event on purpose and their presentations were obviously re-done to emphasize certain factors after the Xbox presentation.

In the end, Kinect will be more successful given that it'll actually be useful since game devs know everyone will have one, whereas the PS Eye will just be a paperweight since devs know their customers won't buy it.

Smart move making an expensive add-on that most people don't want an optional accessory. A pity Microsoft won't do the same thing with crappy Kinect.

So because you don't like it, it's crappy? The Kinect is pretty advanced and awesome and the reason it's required is that it becomes useful, unlike the PS Eye which will be a useless accessory since devs won't build for that since they won't know if customers own one or not. We're gonna see some awesome games for XONE with Kinect integration now that everyone who owns one has one.

Have you tried Kinect 2?? Really have you.???
Have you tried the new PS4 Eye??? Really, have you???

The tech Demos shown for Kinect 2 were amazing... there was nothing crappy about it at all..
Not 1:1 ratio... But so darn close...

Kinect ver1 was used for other applications other that gaming, including the medical world... so its far from crappy if Doctors and hospitals were willing to take chances on it...

Its not about just flailing limbs either... there is hi def voice... SO now they can use a button context to voice...

But most have no imagination...
You only know how to put someone down...


HATERS GONNA HATE............

XBOX ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Showan said,
Have you tried Kinect 2?? Really have you.???
Have you tried the new PS4 Eye??? Really, have you???

The tech Demos shown for Kinect 2 were amazing... there was nothing crappy about it at all..
Not 1:1 ratio... But so darn close...

Kinect ver1 was used for other applications other that gaming, including the medical world... so its far from crappy if Doctors and hospitals were willing to take chances on it...

Its not about just flailing limbs either... there is hi def voice... SO now they can use a button context to voice...

But most have no imagination...
You only know how to put someone down...


HATERS GONNA HATE............

XBOX ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Have you tried Kinect 2?? Really have you.???
Have you tried the new PS4 Eye??? Really, have you???
If not how do you know is not crappy???

The tech Demos shown for Kinect 2 were amazing... in my opinion there was nothing crappy about it at all..
Not 1:1 ratio... But so darn close...

Kinect ver1 was used for other applications other that gaming, including the medical world... so its far from crappy if Doctors and hospitals were willing to take chances on it... " I know right even when kinect is not in every PC people were still making stuff for it you know if the software is good and inovative then people will buy the kinect not the other way around"

Its not about just flailing limbs either... there is hi def voice... SO now they can use a button context to voice... "I know or if you are so interested in another button why not add it to the controller which would be less expensive" But most have no imagination...

You only know how to try put your opinions in other peoples minds...


HATERS GONNA HATE............


There I fixed for you

& You only know how to bash before you try...
& You refuse to have an open mind...

I bet you complain that you have to breath oxygen...
I don't want to breath this crap, stupid Earth forcing oxygen on me....

Steve121178 said,

Obviously.

I don't like the idea of the mandatory requirement.

Hmm... So they should make gamepads optional too, by your way of thinking?

They had to strip those features because of the price point it was heading towards...

This version of Kinect does have its own processor and memory.. no freeloading resources off the console...

The Xbox team originally planned to have a processor onboard like Kinect 2 has, but it was denied due to pricing, and that meant the 360 lacked too much power to make it as good as intended, unfortunately.

This is fine by me. My computer, and phone have had voice control for many many years.. I use it to test out a new headset but other than that.. it remains off.

I don't enjoy yelling at my TV unless I am angry at a show/game, nor do I want to be waving my arms around and hoping it does what I want. Much prefer controller input.. and the 100$ extra on the kinect would just be wasted for me.

Shame, I really liked that one game (or possibly minigame) I saw.. (think it needs the camera)
The one with those little droid thingies that live in the controller
Oh well, guess I'll just have to buy one.

Anyone who thinks developers are going to invest time and resources in Kinect specific control systems when they're making multi-platform titles needs to lay off the mushrooms.

For exclusive titles sure, I can see it. But why bother with titles that are on multiple platforms? It just adds another layer of expensive complexity to the development process.

Do you work for EA, Activision, 2K, Sega..????
Do you have an insider scoop that they won't bother...
No fragmentation... Kinect 2 in every box...

HATERS GONNA HATE

XBOX ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Showan said,
Do you work for EA, Activision, 2K, Sega..????
Do you have an insider scoop that they won't bother...
No fragmentation... Kinect 2 in every box...

HATERS GONNA HATE

XBOX ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you work for EA, Activision, 2K, Sega..????
Do you have an insider scoop that they won't bother making games for kineck if it doesn't come standard???
No fragmentation... Kinect 2 in every box...

HATERS GONNA HATE


There I fixed for you

People kill me...
You want to be part of the Angry Mob because your friends are...
You probably don't even know why the angry mob is angry...
"Oh look an Angry Mob, I'll join in"...
Why are you angry.... "IDK, i saw this angry mob and decided to join in"

Ahem. I OWN an XBox 360 WITH Kinect, which my kids love and I also use. IF I buy an XBox One, my kids will love the Kinect 2 even more. That doesn't stop me from actually having a brain and being able to use it though.

Sure, some games will use the Kinect 2, but don't expect the multi-platform ones to bother over much.

Superboy said,

Do you work for EA, Activision, 2K, Sega..????
Do you have an insider scoop that they won't bother making games for kineck if it doesn't come standard???
No fragmentation... Kinect 2 in every box...

HATERS GONNA HATE


There I fixed for you

XBONED!!

I like the camera to be a choice and if it makes the price go down why not remove it? If you want it pay the difference and get it...

People really have no imagination these days...

I hope they make a Matrix type of game that has Bing integration..,
Your onscreen character jacks in..., and u say something like "Bing: Learn Kung-Fu"...
And up your character onscreen now has a new skill just like that...

IMAGINATION.... GOES A LONG WAY...

XBOX ON!!!!!

Good, the PS4's not about innovation any way, it's about a more powerful PS3 with better graphics. Leave the innovations to MS and the XB1.

Mikeffer said,
Good, the PS4's not about innovation any way, it's about a more powerful PS3 with better graphics. Leave the innovations to MS and the XB1.

Thank you..l

I want tv,tv,tv.... I want panning and shrinking... I want snap in... I want Skype calls...
I WANT ALL THE EXTRA ICING IN THE CAKE THAT I CAN GET....
AWESOME GAMES WERE/ARE A GIVEN....

BUT they can't see that part...

XBOX ON!!!!!

Good never needed to use the PS3 camera that much anyway, this way the developers save time and money, which can be better spent on making a game better.

The XB1 has more value considering that the Kinect is worth more than $100 difference...
The tech inside Kinect can easily sell for $200 by itself....Kinect has Its own processor and memory
The PS Eye, probably won't even have better tech than Kinect ver.1

Like I said HATERS GONNA HATE!!!
Always feeling someone is forcing something on them...

I DON'T WANT TO BREATH AIR, I SHOULDN'T BE FORCED TO USE IT!!!!! LOLZ.....

GET OVER YOURSELVES.....

Showan said,
The tech inside Kinect can easily sell for $200 by itself....Kinect has Its own processor and memory

Got a source for this? Or are you just making this up?
Don't tell me, I know the answer already.
Showan said,

Like I said HATERS GONNA HATE!!!
Always feeling someone is forcing something on them...

I DON'T WANT TO BREATH AIR, I SHOULDN'T BE FORCED TO USE IT!!!!! LOLZ.....

GET OVER YOURSELVES.....


What is wrong with you? I think it's passed your bedtime.

Tha Bloo Monkee said,

Got a source for this? Or are you just making this up?
Don't tell me, I know the answer already.

What is wrong with you? I think it's passed your bedtime.

That's the best you got... Really...no proper counter argument...
I'm a grown man... Beautiful wife, kids, all BLESSED BY GOD...
But it's funny u say that.., Most grown ups do try to give themselves a proper bed time, when they get older...
So they can at least try to stay/be responsible for their jobs and such...

But let's get back to the topic at hand...
The programming and hardware that = Kinect2
Read the 3rd paragraph below the Kinect 2 pic...

http://gizmodo.com/xbox-one-al...you-dont-know-yet-509381624


It doesn't say this anywhere in there:

Showan said,
The tech inside Kinect can easily sell for $200 by itself

So I must conclude that you just made this up.

Tha Bloo Monkee said,
It doesn't say this anywhere in there:

So I must conclude that you just made this up.

"Finally the Kinects OWN CHIPSETS were updated, and this time their architecturees we're built entirely in house by MS.
(that's a big deal; Even Xbox SoC was Designed with the help of AMD) between that and the ability to use dedicated sound processing hardware, it should be a much cleaner experience than the original Kinect, which had to Jerry rig What was shipped With the original XB360 to perform these crazy new task...

http://gizmodo.com/xbox-one-al...you-dont-know-yet-509381624


Now lets have some fun...
You saved $100 with the PS4... Now what...???

PS+ is great... Won't knock it...

Now tell me some innovations you have seen from the PS4 so far...

Do not feed me that track pad crap on the controller....

Now I'm gonna show how the tech that came with the 360 helped Sony today with the PS4

I'll help you out...
The triggers on the new DS4 borrows slight design queues from the XB360 controller
Nice location for the headphone jack... I guess headsets do matter now...
XBOX Live is the reason PSN exist, that's why PSN sucked when it first got going, cause they had to see how Live worked for a starting block...
Xbox live market place is the reason, the PS store exist... Once again, had to see how MS was doing it and go from there...
Achievements are the reason, trophies exist...

Once Sony sees how Kinect 2 works, they will give it a proper update (the tech is there in the camera already)...

You didn't even answer the question, not sure what you're going on about...
You have 21 posts in this article alone (most ending in XBOX ON!!!11oneone); it's very clear you have some kind of agenda.
No point in having any kind of discussion with you, I will just ignore you now.

Tha Bloo Monkee said,
You didn't even answer the question, not sure what you're going on about...
You have 21 posts in this article alone (most ending in XBOX ON!!!11oneone); it's very clear you have some kind of agenda.
No point in having any kind of discussion with you, I will just ignore you now.

Yes I did... The link is the answer...
No agenda...

None of my Sony rants are lies or half truths...
Those are all truths...

People giving Sony all this praise and once again things aren't ready... Again... I gotta pay all this loot and the killer features not ready... Again...
This was familiar with PS3....

SONY MAKES AMAZING HARDWARE... WILL NEVER TAKE THAT AWAY FROM THEM...

but if anyone believes Sony can hang with MS on a software level... Well that's blind faith I guess...

Really, RUMOR???

Wasn't it obvious since SONY announced price and package without a camera.

For those who claim they dont need it, yeah that might be true, we also dont need 11.2 sound, or 3D, or 4k...

And just following that trend, we also dont need game consoles, we can get out and play a sport.

THat argument TO ME is just absurd...

PS4 and XBOX One have the exact same price if bought with the same peripherals, selective packaging is NOT a favor for buyers is just a commercial pitch.

The PS4 Eye is $59. What else does the Xbox One come with, that the PS4 doesn't, that would bring the PS4 price to $499?

Also, 4K, 3D and 11.2 channel are quite different to a control input type. You'd be closer if you said we didn't need a racing wheel, a light gun and an arcade stick, and you'd also be right.

virtorio said,
The PS4 Eye is $59. What else does the Xbox One come with, that the PS4 doesn't, that would bring the PS4 price to $499?

Also, 4K, 3D and 11.2 channel are quite different to a control input type. You'd be closer if you said we didn't need a racing wheel, a light gun and an arcade stick, and you'd also be right.

PS4 Eye is a very limited camera technology, where the Kinect is a dual spectrum Camera, Microsoft Array with movement servos, hardware optics and a built in processor.

(Not sure what you were trying to say, but the cost of the Kinect would be more than the PS4 Eye.)

People dog Kinect... This version has its own processor and memory... People use some brains for once..l

Remember during the reveal where Yusef was panning and grabbing thin air...
Kinect 2 senses pressure...
Imagine squeezing your controller tightly and that equaled choking a guy out in stealth mode...without ever taking your hand off the buttons..,Just palm pressure...

But once again people have no imagination...
I guess they forgot what it was like to be a kid again... And have an imagination....

XBOX ON!!!!!

Showan said,
People dog Kinect... This version has its own processor and memory... People use some brains for once..l

Remember during the reveal where Yusef was panning and grabbing thin air...
Kinect 2 senses pressure...
Imagine squeezing your controller tightly and that equaled choking a guy out in stealth mode...without ever taking your hand off the buttons..,Just palm pressure...

But once again people have no imagination...
I guess they forgot what it was like to be a kid again... And have an imagination....

XBOX ON!!!!!

That sounds cool, but the question is, why couldn't it be an accessory?

Why couldn't the new Xbox have Kinect as an accessory and be $100 cheaper? That means if I want Kinect for a game that supports it I'd buy it.

Maybe developers do want to develop for Kinect, but that doesn't mean every single game will support it. Most games are multi platform and fewer are exclusives.

stevan said,

That sounds cool, but the question is, why couldn't it be an accessory?

Why couldn't the new Xbox have Kinect as an accessory and be $100 cheaper? That means if I want Kinect for a game that supports it I'd buy it.

Maybe developers do want to develop for Kinect, but that doesn't mean every single game will support it. Most games are multi platform and fewer are exclusives.

What would you do if didn't think everyone or any would buy one... U would bother having them bake in Kinect features into a game.., I know I wouldn't...But knowing its a guaranteed fact Kinect is there sky the limit...

I can yell out ice shield and there is a ice shield on the screen...

One thing that I loved about skyrim was saying the dragon spells and they would happen... No more always goin into a sub screen and such...
I gave up on call of duty... But I would map that dog to voice... Stick em... Whisper it if I want to be stealthy... Or say it in panic if I'm in trouble, to show urgency...

I love imagination... That what video games are suppose to be about... Evolution... Not fear....

If Kinect is the best thing since sliced bread why not let the technology sell for itself instead of forcing it on everyone???

Make the great games and people will buy the accessory. As the saying goes "Build it and they will come" and don't use the excuse of if they don't have it game developers won't make games for it just look at the first Xbox no one had one before but then Microsoft bought Bungie and created Halo and people started buying more Xboxes so if you make a great game people will buy the accessory or Console not the other way around.

Superboy said,
If Kinect is the best thing since sliced bread why not let the technology sell for itself instead of forcing it on everyone???

Make the great games and people will buy the accessory. As the saying goes "Build it and they will come" and don't use the excuse of if they don't have it game developers won't make games for it just look at the first Xbox no one had one before but then Microsoft bought Bungie and created Halo and people started buying more Xboxes so if you make a great game people will buy the accessory or Console not the other way around.

That's exactly it! It's pathetic that people think Kinect NEEDS to be inside a console for developers to want to utilize it. If there is such a high demand for it, more games would support it.

Why don't they just include an extra controller then?

Kinect, like the ps eye is just an accessory not used by everyone and therefore we shouldn't all be charged for it.

Showan said,

What would you do if didn't think everyone or any would buy one... U would bother having them bake in Kinect features into a game.., I know I wouldn't...But knowing its a guaranteed fact Kinect is there sky the limit...

I can yell out ice shield and there is a ice shield on the screen...

One thing that I loved about skyrim was saying the dragon spells and they would happen... No more always goin into a sub screen and such...
I gave up on call of duty... But I would map that dog to voice... Stick em... Whisper it if I want to be stealthy... Or say it in panic if I'm in trouble, to show urgency...

I love imagination... That what video games are suppose to be about... Evolution... Not fear....

Have you thought that some people don't want to play games where they're forced to start hollering at their television and jumping up and down?

stevan said,

That's exactly it! It's pathetic that people think Kinect NEEDS to be inside a console for developers to want to utilize it. If there is such a high demand for it, more games would support it.

Why don't they just include an extra controller then?

Kinect, like the ps eye is just an accessory not used by everyone and therefore we shouldn't all be charged for it.

Maybe Microsoft could save money by selling some Xbox Ones with a controller that only has two buttons, leaving off the blue and yellow buttons. There are some games that don't use them.

Of course then 'fragmentation' of what features are built into every game will become a problem, as developers will have to build for only using 2 buttons and make the games work with only two buttons for the people that saved money.

By having a standard set of INPUT features, this ensures the developers can use the controller, Kinect Voice or Kinect Gestures and not have to worry about a user not being able to use the game or devote more development time in a game to provide multiple input modes for users with and without the Kinect. (Just like they would if Microsoft removed two buttons off the controller, and developers hate having to create workarounds with an inconsistency in a platform.)

Even if you never use Kinect or think you won't, developer can design the software to respond to voice command or gestures that you probably will use by having them available to you.

you sound like if Microsoft doesn't include the Kinect developers are banned from developing for it.
Developers can develop for it regardless of how many people have it, it won't be as profitable but they still can develop for it and guess what if that game is good more people will buy the game and consequently the Kinect. just like in racing games just because the xbox doesn't come with a racing wheel controller doesn't ban developers from making Racing Games or just because the Xbox doesn't come with a joystick for flight simulation games doesn't make developers stop making Flight Simulation Games by your reasoning the Xbox would have to come with every accessory imaginable so that developers can create games for them.

mrp04 said,

Have you thought that some people don't want to play games where they're forced to start hollering at their television and jumping up and down?

Hi Def sound.. And hi def sound capture... Don't have to yell u less u yell and the game senses it's an urgent yell and something happens according to that context...
U just want to be a pure hater... Understandable.... HATERS GONNA HATE...
XBOX ON!!!!!

TRUE PLAYSTATION FINATICS = SCARED OF CHANGE...

TRUE XBOX FINATICS =. PROGRESSION & EVOLUTION...

I do owe Sony 3 Thank Yous..,

1 is for CD (PS1)
1 is for DVD (PS2)
1 is for Blu-Ray...(PS3)

Microsoft risk takers = Take a chance cause you'll never know (thanks for not bothering with the 56K modem on the OG Xbox)...
Thanks for taking a chance on a hard drive on a console
Thanks for taking the chance on Xbox live
Thanks for taking a chance on XB Live Marketplace...

Because of Microsoft coming on the console scene I got this
PSN
PS STORE
TROPHIES (though I don't trophy hoard)...
Friends list...


Thanks for taking the chance to try and be bold and let digital and physical be on equal ground (though it didn't pan out)....

Sony I do love you (owner of a Bravia tv, 2x PS3's, Sony Cybershot, Sony ear buds)

But take some freakin chances for once...

I've noticed that most of your products are almost clones of others innovations these days...
TV' are very similar to what Samsung is doing these days...
Accessories are similar to what Nintendo was/is doing
Phones are trying to be a blend of Samsung & LG....
You just encase the product in a different casing (you do make pretty nice looking cases)...

Only you cameras are keeping their own identity (even that is kinda questionable as of late)....

TAKE A FREAKING CHANCE FOR ONCE...

IN THE 80' ps and 90's you were big chance takers.., and you were pretty darn good at making something innovative....
Then you got complacent and rested on your name (MS) once did that too and GOOGLE AND APPLE snuck up on them and in some cases surpassed them as an innovative company...

I BELIEVE IN YOU SONY, BUT U GOTTA TAKE THE CHANCES YOU USE TO TAKE..,

It's not about taking chances. It's about not forcing people to buy a stupid webcam that they do not want just because it can enable some developers to make motion enabled games which are nearly always gimmicky crap.

mrp04 said,
It's not about taking chances. It's about not forcing people to buy a stupid webcam that they do not want just because it can enable some developers to make motion enabled games which are nearly always gimmicky crap.

It's about risk taking...
Sticking with Kinect, and banking on a unique experience... Ur kicking and screaming like a child, over a $100....
And the Kinect can be turned off once the Xbox starts up, countries like Germany don't allow always have to be on cameras and such... Micorosft would have another big time fine from the EU....

Please research some things

mrp04 said,
It's not about taking chances. It's about not forcing people to buy a stupid webcam that they do not want just because it can enable some developers to make motion enabled games which are nearly always gimmicky crap.

If it wasn't for risk taking you'd still be in your cave scrawling on the wall with a stick.

mrp04 said,
It's not about taking chances. It's about not forcing people to buy a stupid webcam that they do not want just because it can enable some developers to make motion enabled games which are nearly always gimmicky crap.

Nice theory apart from the fact that Sony were planning on forcing it on you till they decided to make a cheap attempt at sounding better than MS.

Considering the Playstation Eye for the PS3 is the most useless accessory used by barely any developers, why would I think the PS4 will be any different? It will be another useless accessory and Sony have just made it pointless yet again.

So basically, this is what I see what's happening.

Sony decided to separate their motion tracker = developers will not utilized the device.

Microsoft decided to integrate Kinect = developers will work with the technology if necessary

Sony's PS4's motion tracker will continue to be a device for casual game and can be looked at continuing to compete with the aging Nintendo Wii.

Microsoft Kinect has moved beyond Move and Wii, and do other things that make your entertainment more enjoyable and easier to use, and still be part of your games - hardcore or casual. I think Kinect for an extra $100, I think it is well worth it!

So basically, this is what's happening.

Sony decided to separate their motion tracker = developers will not utilized the device in stupid gimmicky ways that detract from the gaming experience.

Microsoft decided to integrate Kinect = developers will work with the technology and even make it mandatory for things that used to be as simple as pushing a button.

I think a camera for $100 is a ripoff and not worth the money.

Kinect 2.0 just a camera??? You must have confused it with PS Eye, now the Eye is just a camera which is about $60 and now that's a rip off, The Kinect 2.0 is way more powerful than the Eye.

mrp04 said,
So basically, this is what's happening.

Sony decided to separate their motion tracker = developers will not utilized the device in stupid gimmicky ways that detract from the gaming experience.

Microsoft decided to integrate Kinect = developers will work with the technology and even make it mandatory for things that used to be as simple as pushing a button.

I think a camera for $100 is a ripoff and not worth the money.

WOW, you are ill informed. Apparently you don't even know that it can monitor your heart rate by just seeing the different variations of your skin color that the human eye cannot detect. There are fitness program that can use that feature. Let see if the Eye can do that.

So, Sony was going to charge an extra $100 to bundle an accessory they're charging $59 for?
Something doesn't add up there.

I find it funny that people bash the xbox for having more stuff with it making the price higher but with the 360 people bashed it for leaving stuff out like wifi to keep cost down a lot cheaper than ps3. People are just want to make use of their pitchforks it seems... I for one am excited its included.

p.s. if do not plan on using Kinect or want it included just buy a ps4 and stfu and problem solved! So EASY!!!

Microsoft charged far too much for the Wifi accessory, and they put out models of the 360 which didn't have a hard-drive, something far more fundamental to the platform than a camera - that's why people complained.

One more reason to get the Xbox instead of this at first. Downgrading the specs just to beat the price. The reason people are buying it is because of the specs, not the price. As someone else said, its 1-2 games in the price difference, that's it. If someone is worried about paying a mere $100, they will just wait for a used game system anyway.

ILikeTobacco said,
One more reason to get the Xbox instead of this at first. Downgrading the specs just to beat the price. The reason people are buying it is because of the specs, not the price. As someone else said, its 1-2 games in the price difference, that's it. If someone is worried about paying a mere $100, they will just wait for a used game system anyway.

Downgrading the specs? What are you talking about?

Not everyone will use Kinect and if you think so then you're a fool. Sony was smart not to include an accessory some people may not use.

stevan said,

Downgrading the specs? What are you talking about?

Not everyone will use Kinect and if you think so then you're a fool. Sony was smart not to include an accessory some people may not use.


No offense, but you don't seem to understand what happened here. Perhaps you should before calling others names...

Sony has a camera that they wanted to ship with their console. This would have allowed developers to target this hardware and spend the time and money necessary to build unique and creative new uses for it. In order to undercut the competition, Sony cut loose a major piece of hardware, which now, for the life of the console, developers will not be able to target. So, where Microsoft's console will benefit from new and exciting new uses of their camera technology, Sony's will flounder with little to no support. So, the specs were very much downgraded.

By including Kinect, Microsoft guaranteed that it will get support and give gamers reason to use it, where a separate accessory would not.

Sony originally had a camera with it. Now they don't. That is a downgrade. That is what I am talking about. I suggest you look in a mirror before you call someone else a fool if you don't even know a basic technology definition like that. Insults are not well received on Neowin, especially those made out of ignorance.

ILikeTobacco said,
Sony originally had a camera with it. Now they don't. That is a downgrade. That is what I am talking about. I suggest you look in a mirror before you call someone else a fool if you don't even know a basic technology definition like that. Insults are not well received on Neowin, especially those made out of ignorance.

The camera was supposed to be a part of a bundle, not inside the hardware. So what you said is wrong, it's not a hardware downgrade its just one less accessory that made the console cheaper.

COME ON PEOPLE!!!!!

This is the same in EVERY industry. Cars, electronics, name it. Most come in introductory prices that target consumers that don't want accessories. Most people will not buy the playstation eye so why include it and make the price more? It's not like it was going to make te console faster.

This Xbox fanboyism is becoming pathetic. Ludacris excuses such as those stated above is the reason Xbox one has received such negative feedback accross the Internet.

stevan said,

The camera was supposed to be a part of a bundle, not inside the hardware. So what you said is wrong, it's not a hardware downgrade its just one less accessory that made the console cheaper.

COME ON PEOPLE!!!!!

This is the same in EVERY industry. Cars, electronics, name it. Most come in introductory prices that target consumers that don't want accessories. Most people will not buy the playstation eye so why include it and make the price more? It's not like it was going to make te console faster.

This Xbox fanboyism is becoming pathetic. Ludacris excuses such as those stated above is the reason Xbox one has received such negative feedback accross the Internet.

You don't have much imagination... Read my replies all over this page... Don't feel like re-typing them out...

Showan said,

You don't have much imagination... Read my replies all over this page... Don't feel like re-typing them out...

Imagination? No it's not something required to play games. So you could say that I'm not the only one without the imagination. And that's what you don't get, not everyone wants Kinect. And not everyone wants to use it. People shouldn't be forced to buy something they may not ever use.

Imagination is something that game developers should have to make games for us to play. And if I need imagination to play every game and use Kinect, then those developers have failed.

ILikeTobacco said,
One more reason to get the Xbox instead of this at first. Downgrading the specs just to beat the price. The reason people are buying it is because of the specs, not the price. As someone else said, its 1-2 games in the price difference, that's it. If someone is worried about paying a mere $100, they will just wait for a used game system anyway.

I love the double standard here: if a rumour is about MS.... it is just a rumor, unsubstantiated gossip, groundless, etc. etc.
If it bout Sony.... well it is a synoptic gospel...

stevan said,

Imagination? No it's not something required to play games. So you could say that I'm not the only one without the imagination. And that's what you don't get, not everyone wants Kinect. And not everyone wants to use it. People shouldn't be forced to buy something they may not ever use.

Imagination is something that game developers should have to make games for us to play. And if I need imagination to play every game and use Kinect, then those developers have failed.

You remind me of those haters when the 1st Nintendo came out... 2 buttons and a D-Pad, and start and select..., People cried that it would be too hard to use and Nintendo should of stuck with the tried and true way, and made a controller like the Atari had... Just A joystiq handle and a single button... WHY WOULD THEY FORCE A CONTROLLER LIKE THAT DOWN PEOPLE'S THROAT... ALL THOSE BUTTONS ARENT NECESSARY...

XBOX ON!!!!!

stevan said,

The camera was supposed to be a part of a bundle, not inside the hardware. So what you said is wrong, it's not a hardware downgrade its just one less accessory that made the console cheaper.

COME ON PEOPLE!!!!!

This is the same in EVERY industry. Cars, electronics, name it. Most come in introductory prices that target consumers that don't want accessories. Most people will not buy the playstation eye so why include it and make the price more? It's not like it was going to make te console faster.

This Xbox fanboyism is becoming pathetic. Ludacris excuses such as those stated above is the reason Xbox one has received such negative feedback accross the Internet.

Loosing argument so chuck in the "Fanboy" fall back, how mature

The only person that is being a fanboy here is you. The sad part is you don't even realize it. I am buying both systems, just buying the xbox first. Clearly I am a fanboy because only a fanboy would buy both systems...wait. The camera was included originally in the bundle that cost $100 less than the xbox. Now it is not included and the price hasn't budged. So now we are getting less for the same price and you are actually defending that like a true sony fanboy. I am just glad I live in a world where I can buy both systems and don't close myself off to options the way you do.

ILikeTobacco said,
The camera was included originally in the bundle that cost $100 less than the xbox. Now it is not included and the price hasn't budged.

I agree with you but that statement isn't true. We don't know what Sony would have charged if they had included their inferior eye toy, but the guess according to the article was $499 - the same as the XB1.

b_roca said,

I agree with you but that statement isn't true. We don't know what Sony would have charged if they had included their inferior eye toy, but the guess according to the article was $499 - the same as the XB1.

A $100 increase for a $59 accessory. The price of the PS4 would have been lower than the price of the PS4 WITH the price of the accessory. There was no reason to take the camera away if the sole reason was to beat the price of the XB1.

Well, that is what the article claims and you don't have any other information to assume it was going to be the same price with the eyetoy, do you?
Like I said, I agree with your general sentiment but the rumour says it was originally intended to be $499 with the accessory.

Great choice! I'd much rather pay $100 less than be sold something I may not ever use. Microsoft should have done the same thing with Kinect.

Yeah... because Sony is going to do so well remaining stuck in the past. Box + Controller + faster cpu + being stuck with discs... Ooo... Aaaah... Feels like 2005 all over again.

Ignoring the fact that Sony is a turd (In the same ranks as EA and other horrible companies), the fact that MS is actually PUSHING the envelope instead of releasing the same system as before with a faster cpu/gpu is something I'll personally support with a marginally increased price tag.

Granted, MS can never get anything right the first time, so I'll wait for the second round of consoles before getting one but at-least I won't have to worry about root-kits and losing functionality after every patch.

Hopefully the next round of updates will include the ability to upgrade the hard drives as well, since 500GB-non-upgradeable is a stupid decision. I'd also love to see digital only options coming back to the forefront. They should be more worried about Steam and Android than Sony.

I for one, am thankful the Kinect is mandatory. Ignoring all the tin foil hat douchebags out there, it'll be great for devs to have certainty that anyone with an Xbox One has Kinect, meaning they can implement features that everyone can use.
Plus, I'm not a tight wad. $100 is under two games (or one, where I live), and for that you get a high tech piece of equipment

I can't agree more. Kinect will replace my Microsoft HD webcam that I have resting ontop of my TV in the living room. I'll just use Kinect for my Skype sessions and SEVERAL other features the new Xbox One will bring to my home theatre. I don't only play games or have time for games.

ZipZapRap said,
I for one, am thankful the Kinect is mandatory. Ignoring all the tin foil hat douchebags out there, it'll be great for devs to have certainty that anyone with an Xbox One has Kinect, meaning they can implement features that everyone can use.
Plus, I'm not a tight wad. $100 is under two games (or one, where I live), and for that you get a high tech piece of equipment

Exactly. I don't understand how people can't make the connection between consumers having hardware and developer support for that hardware. It's hardly rocket science. LOL

And I'd like to add that Sony's camera isn't half of the device the Kinect is...

So let's put it this way. What if they design everything for the Kinect, and then someone has limited function in certain areas or disabilities which prevent use of the Kinect, so then they can't play that game?

If you say that developers didn't design games because no one had it, how can you say that won't develop completely for that since it's there, ignoring the rest. They should have always designed for both, anyway. I think it's a pipe dream for you to say they didn't develop for it before because it couldn't be guaranteed it was there. Realistically, they would have done it anyway to say, "look at what WE can do with this thing!" I doubt much will change as far as gameplay.

Personally I don't want to be moving all my body parts to get something to work right. That's why I play games, to relax. If I want to work out, I'll go to the gym or take a run.

So let's put it this way. What if they design everything for the Kinect, and then someone has limited function in certain areas or disabilities which prevent use of the Kinect, so then they can't play that game?

If you say that developers didn't design games because no one had it, how can you say that won't develop completely for that since it's there, ignoring the rest. They should have always designed for both, anyway. I think it's a pipe dream for you to say they didn't develop for it before because it couldn't be guaranteed it was there. Realistically, they would have done it anyway to say, "look at what WE can do with this thing!" I doubt much will change as far as gameplay.

Personally I don't want to be moving all my body parts to get something to work right. That's why I play games, to relax. If I want to work out, I'll go to the gym or take a run.

farmeunit said,
So let's put it this way. What if they design everything for the Kinect, and then someone has limited function in certain areas or disabilities which prevent use of the Kinect, so then they can't play that game?

If you say that developers didn't design games because no one had it, how can you say that won't develop completely for that since it's there, ignoring the rest. They should have always designed for both, anyway. I think it's a pipe dream for you to say they didn't develop for it before because it couldn't be guaranteed it was there. Realistically, they would have done it anyway to say, "look at what WE can do with this thing!" I doubt much will change as far as gameplay.

Personally I don't want to be moving all my body parts to get something to work right. That's why I play games, to relax. If I want to work out, I'll go to the gym or take a run.

Good point... Now let me counter this... Kinect isn't about all body movement... There is hi fidelity voice as well... Imagine playing a game and voice becomes a button mapping... And that now frees up an button on the controller...
Lets think outside the box for once instead of just bashing...
I can be playing an X-men game and say "Ice Shield" and ice man makes an ice shield right on the screen..
And now I have 9 buttons instead of 8...

Or what if Forza came with vibrating gloves... And u just put ur hands in the air and drive... And do the motions like ur driving a real car... All kids on e upon a time acted like they were driving...

I'm happy they forced Kinect on me... Guaranteed developer support... Even if it's just using voice as a button

Farmeunit, I must agree with Showan. In fact, I'll add on it, way beyond body movement and technology.

If you have young kids or a kid who wants to play with you when you know he cannot take part because the game is violent or disturbing, Kinect is the best way to play video games with your children. Rather than just playing Halo, Gears, CoD by yourself, and your kid being expose to all that violent, enjoy time with them by playing Kinect.

I'm sure that fragging someone online here and there is fun, but that is something young kids should not be expose to. In fact, if my kid wants to play our Xbox, he knows which games to select, and all of them are the Kinect games like Forza 4, Disney Adventure, Kinect Adventures, Kinect Joy Ride, and yes, even Dance Central. Granted he is still all over then floor when he dances, but it is what the technology of Kinect is bringing to the family.

RommelS said,
Farmeunit, I must agree with Showan. In fact, I'll add on it, way beyond body movement and technology.

If you have young kids or a kid who wants to play with you when you know he cannot take part because the game is violent or disturbing, Kinect is the best way to play video games with your children. Rather than just playing Halo, Gears, CoD by yourself, and your kid being expose to all that violent, enjoy time with them by playing Kinect.

I'm sure that fragging someone online here and there is fun, but that is something young kids should not be expose to. In fact, if my kid wants to play our Xbox, he knows which games to select, and all of them are the Kinect games like Forza 4, Disney Adventure, Kinect Adventures, Kinect Joy Ride, and yes, even Dance Central. Granted he is still all over then floor when he dances, but it is what the technology of Kinect is bringing to the family.


I would love to be playing an adventure game.., and I happen to be the villain at he end of the game... What a shocker that would be... Kinect getting your face and voice and you adventure through a ppgame as the hero... You got the best armor and magic...or whatever... And the end villain looks just like you...
Nobody would ever see that coming
But people have no imagination...

XBOX ON!!!!!!

I, for one, am grateful that Sony didn't bundle the stupid webcam in with the PS4. I have zero interest in owning and especially paying for one.

mrp04 said,
I, for one, am grateful that Sony didn't bundle the stupid webcam in with the PS4. I have zero interest in owning and especially paying for one.

Well then good for you. The fact is though (I don't expect you to admit this now), that if the PS EYE was included with the console at $460, you would probably have said "wow what a great deal! a camera and it's still cheaper then Xbox one"...

farmeunit said,
So let's put it this way. What if they design everything for the Kinect, and then someone has limited function in certain areas or disabilities which prevent use of the Kinect, so then they can't play that game?

If you say that developers didn't design games because no one had it, how can you say that won't develop completely for that since it's there, ignoring the rest. They should have always designed for both, anyway. I think it's a pipe dream for you to say they didn't develop for it before because it couldn't be guaranteed it was there. Realistically, they would have done it anyway to say, "look at what WE can do with this thing!" I doubt much will change as far as gameplay.

Personally I don't want to be moving all my body parts to get something to work right. That's why I play games, to relax. If I want to work out, I'll go to the gym or take a run.

I'm afraid that's just not how life works.
The current crop of control pads wasn't built for people with no arms, in fact, the Kinect adds a possible extra layer of accessibility for disabled users.

My Xbox 360 is always connected to the internet and the Kinect is always plugged in. Does feel a bit strange when watching a movie but hey if you want to see me eating while I watch movies go for it haha

brent3000 said,
Makes me wonder how different Sonys press conference would have gone if MS never did the Tent event....

This
Sony was very preserved when showcasing the PS4 originally and then they have shown a bunch of other stuff the day after the Xbox One was presented just to make a better console. Nice art of war strategy but Microsoft isn't afraid to talk to people by the looks of it.

EvilAstroboy said,
So, really ....the xbone would have been cheaper if the eye toy was mandatory?

It would have been cheaper, the ps eye is $60 so $460 vs $499.

EvilAstroboy said,

matlybe , maybe not , don't know

No, the PS Eye costs $60 now, and would only gotten cheaper by mass production if it was to be included with every PS4.

MindTrickz said,

No, the PS Eye costs $60 now, and would only gotten cheaper by mass production if it was to be included with every PS4.

I wasn't aware the new PS Eye was already released

No surprise if it's true.

However, making the PlayStation 4 Eye camera an add-on product instead of a required device means that not all game developers will take advantage of it.

To be fair, there's no guarantee all developers would have taken advantage of it if was bundled in; same with the Kinect. It's an integral part of the Xbox One, but that doesn't mean game developers have to incorporate it into their games. It's like the SIXAXIS in the PS3 controllers; it was there for everyone to take advantage of, and hardly anyone bothered with it.

MightyJordan said,
No surprise if it's true.


To be fair, there's no guarantee all developers would have taken advantage of it if was bundled in; same with the Kinect. It's an integral part of the Xbox One, but that doesn't mean game developers have to incorporate it into their games. It's like the SIXAXIS in the PS3 controllers; it was there for everyone to take advantage of, and hardly anyone bothered with it.


Well, first, no one said ALL developers would make use of it...

With Kinect though, they have repeatedly stated that they want to make heavy use of it, and use it in different and unique ways. They couldn't though, until now, because they couldn't guarantee that the player had a Kinect... The One won't have that problem.

M_Lyons10 said,

Well, first, no one said ALL developers would make use of it...

...except for the article above, which is where I copied that quote from.

MightyJordan said,

...except for the article above, which is where I copied that quote from.

I don't think that was meant literally. In fact, I can guarantee it wasn't.

MightyJordan said,

...except for the article above, which is where I copied that quote from.

I don't think that was meant literally. In fact, I can guarantee it wasn't.

Correct, but the entire Xbox One is centered around the Kinect. Even its interface will make very good use of it. Judging by the voice adoption in still quite a lot of games on the Xbox 360, I think MS is making the correct decision including it and expanding that adoption. But I agree that $100 is still quite a large gap to convince most consumers. $50 would be better and then there are also the privacy issues that are not going away atm because of the PRISM debacle for example (even when MS has already firmly denied its involvement). For the moment many will certainly agree that treating Kinect as an opt-in choice and releasing at or under $399 might seem better for MS and the Xbox One.

This article's content was already confirmed by the Dutch show GameKings last week. Sony basically had 3 pricepoints 399, 499 and yes even 599 again (seriously WTF), where they would match or undercut pricepoints after MS announced theirs at their conference.
What gives it more credibility is knowing that every development kit has the Eye included. They also confirmed 399 was the lowest Sony could go SKU wise with only one controller. So if MS drops the bundled Kinect and releases under Sony's pricepoint, that would make a killer comeback. It's a hard trade-off for MS.

Edited by Thief000, Jun 27 2013, 8:48am :

It's collecting dust because no apps or games use it because its not bundled. Xbox One is designed first with the assumption that kinect is present, and game devs wíll be assured the same. All sony did was assure pseye will collect dust while kinect is actively used.

Can't see there being too many mainstream games using the Kinect, especially since most game developers have to accomodate multi-platform support. The Kinect is just a cool device to have to show off to your friends and not something you'd use in everyday gaming.

JHBrown said,
Excellent choice. Some people don't need a damn camera. Mine has been collecting dust for a year and a half.

Only because it can't get proper developer support because they can't guarantee that the consumer has it... The choice Microsoft made was the right one. I just do not understand how people can't understand such a basic principle...

ModernMech said,
It's collecting dust because no apps or games use it because its not bundled. Xbox One is designed first with the assumption that kinect is present, and game devs wíll be assured the same. All sony did was assure pseye will collect dust while kinect is actively used.

Now I know some people enjoy waving their arms and dancing all around like a fool, but that's not for everyone. I wouldn't want to pay an extra $100 for a device that I don't want to use.

Chugworth said,

Now I know some people enjoy waving their arms and dancing all around like a fool, but that's not for everyone. I wouldn't want to pay an extra $100 for a device that I don't want to use.

That is hardly all they can do with it.

M_Lyons10 said,

Only because it can't get proper developer support because they can't guarantee that the consumer has it... The choice Microsoft made was the right one. I just do not understand how people can't understand such a basic principle...

I don't think they've made the right one. I'm still on the fence on the XB1. If it was $400 without camera I'd definitely buy it. I just do not want motion control. I hate it. It never works well. It's gimmicky. I'm playing a video game to sit on my ass and not move.

mrp04 said,

I don't think they've made the right one. I'm still on the fence on the XB1. If it was $400 without camera I'd definitely buy it. I just do not want motion control. I hate it. It never works well. It's gimmicky. I'm playing a video game to sit on my ass and not move.

Yet what you want is one of the features... Sit on your couch and wave your hand to control the device or not move at all and use your voice to completely control the console and access content.

So saying "Xbox Pause" in Netflix is far less movement to find the controller and press a button.

Games are also using the existing Kinect for an additional 'input' interface, letting users speak commands, call out plays, etc. Adding in another layer of control over the controller with several layers of NUI functionality.

Enjoy sitting on the couch, but the Kinect is the best way to move less than you do now if that is your goal.

mrp04 said,

I don't think they've made the right one. I'm still on the fence on the XB1. If it was $400 without camera I'd definitely buy it. I just do not want motion control. I hate it. It never works well. It's gimmicky. I'm playing a video game to sit on my ass and not move.

Well with kinect you get auto-login (even with multiple people), you can turn on and off your Xbox and switch games using your voice etc. That's sound like it would fit your "sit on my ass and not move" scenario. The majority of games won't probably require big moments or anything, but the fact that kinect is there gives you better gaming. Ex. you AND you friends in the same room can chat with other people online(think multiplayer gaming with guests). In split-screen the guy on the right side of the couch will always get the right side of the screen etc. Simple Things that make gaming better without any dancing etc.

mrp04 said,
...sit on my ass and not move.

Which is exactly what i use my Kinect for, sitting on my arse and not moving.
Kinect makes it a lot easier to do this and with it being a requirement, devs will start build some great stuff for the it.

mrp04 said,

I don't think they've made the right one. I'm still on the fence on the XB1. If it was $400 without camera I'd definitely buy it. I just do not want motion control. I hate it. It never works well. It's gimmicky. I'm playing a video game to sit on my ass and not move.

Even stuff like headtracking in FPS or racing games will be a great addition. Pretty small minded to just think of playing Wii sports or just dance type games. If the Oculus Rift comes to Xbox then it will be even better and PS4 owners will be looking on with jealousy.

DeathByPenguin said,
Graimer, nobody plays vertical split screen O_o

That Depends on the game. Horizontal is mostly used, but in some scenarios you need it. Also, think 4 player Halo etc when it's 4 squares.

Seing as screens get bigger and the resolution is higher now, I'd bet you're going to see multiple games using it on the new consoles.

So since the Xbox One has it in by default, many developers will be able to build functionality into it for games. No sense in cutting that out for the PS4 version, they'll probably keep it in as an option. Gamers who want the camera can buy it and it will be supported, and gamers that don't, won't have to.

But I don't really see it being supported in Xbox One games even if it is included in every system.

Geezy said,
No sense in cutting that out for the PS4 version, they'll probably keep it in as an option.

Unlikely, the Kinect is a completely different set of API's and uses than the frankly rubbish eye.