Rumor: Windows 8 sales "well below" Microsoft's expectations [Update]


Sales of Windows 8 haven't met expectations, according to a new report citing unnamed sources.

Windows 8, along with new PCs that have Windows 8 pre-installed, have been available to purchase for three weeks now. But are early sales already tanking? A well-known Microsoft insider website claims that is indeed the case.

Paul Thurrott, of Supersite for Windows, writes today that, based on unnamed sources, "Sales of Windows 8 PCs are well below Microsoft’s internal projections and have been described inside the company as disappointing." The article doesn't go into any more specifics in terms of unit sales, nor does it break down how many Windows 8 PCs have been sold versus how many software upgrades have been purchased.

The article does claim, again via its unnamed insider, that Microsoft puts part of the low Windows 8 sales blame on PC makers for creating new devices that were, in the company's opinion, "lackluster." However, it also speculates that the low Windows 8 sales could be caused by a number of other factors, including the UI design of Windows 8 itself and the overall state of the world economy.

Of course, Microsoft may have seen this coming and that could be one of the reasons why it decided to cut Steven Sinofsky, the head of the Windows division, loose this week. We have contacted Microsoft to see if they wish to comment on this report.

Update: A Microsoft spokesperson has responded but has told Neowin, "Microsoft doesn’t comment on rumors or speculation."

Source: Supersite for Windows | Image via Microsoft

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Although it was a stable OS I would be hard pressed to advise anyone to go back to Windows XP (an OS from 2001) just like I wouldn't advise Mac users to return to Mac OS 9. There have been 3 major releases of Windows since then and Microsoft ISN'T gonna support XP forever...

Accepting the fact that change is always difficult also means that you can eventually learn to love a new girlfriend just like your old girlfriend. I can still look back on my DOS based applications and my old computer hardware (even my Atari 800) but there's no need for me to refuse to accept the reality of the new operating system.

I will probably accept Windows 8 as my day-to-day operating system in the coming year - especially when there are NEW applications, utilities or games that take advantage of the features of that OS. But right now Windows 7 will be my OS choice...

Realizing Win8 does not allow downgrading to XP, two weeks ago I bought a XP Box set for my soon-to-be upgraded PC. Why would Microsoft design a product that customers hate? The Office ribben kills support staff. The driver signage kills device makers. The removed low level API kills programmers. The uncustomizable Windows kills users. It Microsoft resells XP, I foresee a long queue.

This guy needs to shut the F up and stick his tongue somewhere relevant, his microsoft articles makes me sick, I remember him once trying to down play Microsoft surface event, he was saying Microsoft does not have the capacity to pull an apple like announcement, he thinks he knows the company, he clearly has no clue.

I have never seen Microsoft spend so much $$ on ads or commercial for Windows before as I have for Windows 8. They're really desperate to get people to try Windows 8. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with it except that when a good product is released people will buy it and know about it before it is released and sale will be up (should be especially since it's cheap). Look at XP and 7...compare those two with Windows Vista half baked...same with Windows 8. If they were able to integrated Metro nicely and completed it throughout like Windows 7 (which should have been Vista) there wouldn't be so much backlash. I find it funny when one person says something against or negative about Windows 8, 5-10 fanboys jumps in like the Apple fanboys. I have always used Windows as my main, at the same time I like Apple and Google products---use what works for me. Truth is, Windows 8 has/will fail in desktop area but will do somewhat good in tablet market. Don't worry! as seen in the past, Windows 9 will be what Windows 8 could have been..simple as that. Microsoft simply keeping up with their old tradition.......

old MS; people complain....
new MS; people complain....

so... nothing new here...

and MS entering the commercial 'zone', it's just good business. MS has to compete more with Apple and Google. Why isn't anybody nagging when Apple commercials are all over the place?

MaSx said,
I have never seen Microsoft spend so much $$ on ads or commercial for Windows before as I have for Windows 8. They're really desperate to get people to try Windows 8. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with it except that when a good product is released people will buy it and know about it before it is released and sale will be up (should be especially since it's cheap). Look at XP and 7...compare those two with Windows Vista half baked...same with Windows 8. If they were able to integrated Metro nicely and completed it throughout like Windows 7 (which should have been Vista) there wouldn't be so much backlash. I find it funny when one person says something against or negative about Windows 8, 5-10 fanboys jumps in like the Apple fanboys. I have always used Windows as my main, at the same time I like Apple and Google products---use what works for me. Truth is, Windows 8 has/will fail in desktop area but will do somewhat good in tablet market. Don't worry! as seen in the past, Windows 9 will be what Windows 8 could have been..simple as that. Microsoft simply keeping up with their old tradition.......

People dislike having fewer options after 30 years of having a pretty much open platform... they also dislike handing almost their entire digital life to a microsoft account ...

MS gets what they deserve here...maybe they will come to their senses after Sinofsky is gone and put back the start menu and an option to boot to desktop if someone wants...

The major issue I had with Windows 8 is it feels a lot like the early versions of MacOS X - it has two user experiences (Modern/Metro and Desktop) and you constantly find yourself moving between them to run different apps. There aren't a whole lot of programs that are available for Start Screen and when you add traditional Windows programs to the system you switch to the Desktop to run them. Perhaps when there are more 3rd party apps available (but when them having to go thru the Win 8 store it may be a while...) it may be more attractive to move to Windows 8.

The early versions of MacOS X also included a classic mode (MacOS 9) that allowed users to run programs that were not converted to the new environment (for example ClarisWorks). Eventually this was removed after version 10.4 and people could ONLY run programs designed for MacOS X. Also, older hardware was no longer supported (as Apple moved from the PowerPC platform to Intel-based machines) to machines with faster processors, CD drives, USB ports and newer technologies. Eventually my PowerPC G4 based desktop and G3 iBook were not upgradable to OS 10.5 (like my PowerPC G3 beige desktops were only supported thru OS 10.2...) and my choice was either to buy new hardware (which is the Apple way) or make due with an operating system that was no longer being supported at all.

Windows 7 will be a viable solution for several years and I'm sure that Windows 8 will eventually become the standard that most users will move to (especially when they upgrade their hardware) - but right now there's not a compelling reason to upgrade a well working system to the latest and greatest (at least not after 3 weeks...)

Leopard Seal said,
Windows XP had a slow adoption rate, but went on to be a Microsoft success. Give 8 some time and the same will happen for it. We have to remember that PT's whole gig is to drive attention and clicks to his site. Whether any rumors he creates have any validity is secondary.

http://www.crn.com/news/channe...ws-xp-slow-to-take-hold.htm

fair point in the story.. why bother rushing to upgrade if you were already using win2k ?
So yeah why bother using Win 8 if you Win 7install works just fine ?

and everyone i knew was telling me to my face that they were concerned about the new activation technology rolled out on XP. and i searched the net back then about it all the time and i know i wasn't the only one
seems nobody is remembering that though.. selective memory maybe ?

The same will happen "for it" ?
uhh no sorry not likely.. there is no way in hell Windows 8 will considered a success like XP.. no matter how much time we give it lol

on the contrary we will start seeing jokes on TV such as when "The big bang theory" were repeatedly bashing Vista lol

The comments in this thread are embarrassing. You guys get all worked up for nothing. Reflection of the Internet society I guess and these titles that bring in the crazies.

Mikeffer said,
"Rumor" stopped reading there.

lol not stopping you from telling people how it is though..
like the guy further up the page you told isn't entitled to dislike win 8 because he didn't try it yet.
(note: his response was that he has LOL)

/fail train goes shuggah chuggah chooo choooooooo

I am Not PCyr said,

lol not stopping you from telling people how it is though..
like the guy further up the page you told isn't entitled to dislike win 8 because he didn't try it yet.
(note: his response was that he has LOL)

/fail train goes shuggah chuggah chooo choooooooo

Since his comment made no real bones on the original article then this comment of yours may as well hop on the carriage behind me...

/fail train again booshoo whaa woo wtf...

bigmehdi said,
So when it's bad news on win8, it's "rumors".

When it's conjecture based on unnamed sources and not backed with any actual proof, it's rumors. The only ones taking this as gospel are fanboys and haters. Doesn't matter if you love or hate Win8, it's not hard to figure that out.

I'd be surprised if the word "rumor" was used on an article praising win8.
It's obvious to me that the writer didn't want to be responsible for any bad publicity by using the word rumor.

Duh!!

Surely they weren't expecting sales to be through the roof? They released this version of Windows WAY to soon after 7, for one thing. This ISN'T Linux where an upgrade is necessary every 2-3 years, although it feels more like 6 months!!

cork1958 said,
Duh!!

Surely they weren't expecting sales to be through the roof? They released this version of Windows WAY to soon after 7, for one thing. This ISN'T Linux where an upgrade is necessary every 2-3 years, although it feels more like 6 months!!


They are doing this to prevent another vista on the market.

When you are hung over and you suddenly find yourself being faced with the massively bright tiles and lurid colours of TIFKAM at work after a night out is not a pleasant experience, especially on an 27" LED monitor

For all the mourners of start button and start menu, read:
1. The start menu is very much there, but in a new way. All installed applications are in front of user. No more clicks required to reach them as it was in start menu. It is the same analogy but more simplified.
2. The start screen have live tiles. So much constantly updated info at your finger tips.
3. You can group the tiles just like you used to group under folders in start menu
4. Seamless integration of facebook, twitter (not used), and linked-in. Now mostly you do not have to visit those sites. The content is available on desktop
5. Start menu search was less refined. Now after entering search criteria select any of the sub categories like, app, store, files ... etc for more refined search.
6. Go over some of the good apps in the store and you would get hooked to them soon.
7. If you have apps for the desktop (like I do) it switches to desktop when they run.

What more do you want for a change? unless,
i. I am used to that,
ii. I want that,
iii. I can't change
iv. Modern UI is DOA
v. Where is the start button (too much value for a simple button)
vi. I can not adapt to new ways
vii. I will not use it (but Win8 important enough that I curse it ) constantly

You are wrong. The the lack of the start is not the problem, the problem is that you have to switch back and forth between two different full-screen UIs / paradigms. It's just not pleasing for the eyes / brain.

The regular desktop user should not be forced to use a mobile UI on a desktop system, no mater what. See, that's the problem.

Edited by Dot Catrix, Nov 17 2012, 9:00am :

Mortis said,
You are wrong. The the lack of the start is not the problem, the problem is that you have to switch back and forth between two different full-screen UIs / paradigms. It's just not pleasing for the eyes / brain.
The regular desktop should not be forced to use a mobile UI on a desktop system, no mater what. See, that's the problem.

I just wish that desktop get's some sort of new startmenu instead of switching UIs.
For the tablet users, let's keep it that way.

1. Who said it is mobile UI. It is destined to be a common UI across different computing platform by MS and when it does it is smooth.
2. Fact: a lot of people brains do not get affected by switching. It do not switch constantly and on its own, and when it does it is smooth and subtle.
3. A lot of people would hardly leave start screen who checks mail, browse, listen to music, or see videos
4. No matter what,. Is this your will or something else

1. The problem is that it's just the start screen that's Metro, the desktop UI being a step back from Windows 7 in terms of looks. More, the desktop UI lacks polish, and feels like a dinosaur abandoned in a tablet era. If the desktop was metro-ized, we'd speak maybe about one, coherent interface.
2. That's your opinion and others, mine and others found this displeasing.
3. Agree. But for other people the new start screen is absolutely useless. So at least, for Christ's sake, why not giving people an option to skip the new start screen? (we're not speaking about 3rd party solutions).
4. Of course, everyone is subjective in the end. Sales will speak the truth.

This... Exactly this.

All haters are:
a. Trolls
b. MS haters because they don't have another purpose in life
c. Apple cultists
d. people who all into the 1-7 category

jaffers said,
For all the mourners of start button and start menu, read:
1. The start menu is very much there, but in a new way. All installed applications are in front of user. No more clicks required to reach them as it was in start menu. It is the same analogy but more simplified.
2. The start screen have live tiles. So much constantly updated info at your finger tips.
3. You can group the tiles just like you used to group under folders in start menu
4. Seamless integration of facebook, twitter (not used), and linked-in. Now mostly you do not have to visit those sites. The content is available on desktop
5. Start menu search was less refined. Now after entering search criteria select any of the sub categories like, app, store, files ... etc for more refined search.
6. Go over some of the good apps in the store and you would get hooked to them soon.
7. If you have apps for the desktop (like I do) it switches to desktop when they run.

What more do you want for a change? unless,
i. I am used to that,
ii. I want that,
iii. I can't change
iv. Modern UI is DOA
v. Where is the start button (too much value for a simple button)
vi. I can not adapt to new ways
vii. I will not use it (but Win8 important enough that I curse it ) constantly

Funnily enough, I went to our local Currys a couple of evenings ago to upgrade my iPad to the 4th Gen. Whilst there, I wanted to handle the iPad mini to see if it was suitable for my partner. There was that many people waiting around the Apple desk that I gave up and just got my iPad. However, there was a long array of laptops, etc with Windows 8 on and I saw just one person looking at them. I asked the guy who got my iPad for me whether that was typical. His reply was 'No, we don't usually have even one person looking at them.' This is despite cash back offers and other incentives posted outside the door of the store. I've seen them and I'm not at all surprised. It is just so unattractive.

wasn't sure if neowin had the balls to post this story going around lol

I'm not sure i believe the info and i for sure think its way too early to tell.
Lets see what things look like after boxing day/week sales are over..

and i am no http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrarian
i try had to see things as they are and learn and be objective.
but if something sucks i'm gonna say it lol

What the hell is all this hate? If you don't like an Os or you think win 7 is better,just stfu and be happy.
I am an avid desk top user,I always put win 8 down but i have adapted too really love 8 now
I installed 8,used it for 2 hours,went back too 7 *lol* did not like,but it was always in my head,win 8
I decided to install 8 again,2 days now,1 game would not work,went back too 7
I missed 8 and how fast i could do things,metro as well
So now i am staying on 8 and all you haters putting down 8 are stuck in there old ways to except changes

Viva microsoft

Not so many iterations for myself, but I did missed start button and menu for the first two days or so and then I adapted and now I never look back and love Win8 start screen. Even I stopped using File Explorer and using Metro Commander: Simple as much as I can.

Bottom line is: it is a refreshing change

AmUnderage said,
What the hell is all this hate? If you don't like an Os or you think win 7 is better,just stfu and be happy.

works both ways ..lets be fair here

for 29.99 euros I make my pirate windows original for start. also the trolls that haven't use the Win8 don't talk at all. the system is better than win7, faster. I never miss the start button not even once,also I like the metro apps and more will come. is only 3 weeks that win8 are out. what did you expect? 99% of pc use them already?

jaffers said,
Then XP style UI should also be an option because millions are still using Xp

Fact is that the bold plain fugly metro UI crap was forced onto users when no one actually wanted to use it and they removed Aero Glass for no reason. What does XP even have to do with this? The whole point revolves around the previous UI which was way better than this metro nonsense. Care to try again?

You sound like an MS Fanboy

This is of no surprise whatsoever...to average joe blow windows 8 looks like a phone UI slapped onto a laptop/desktop, and joe blow is not as stupid as microsoft predicted...no one is going to buy windows 8

Who isn't surprised?
MS has an "every other one sucks" going for them.
Windows8 bad
Window7 good
Windows Vista bad
WindowsXP good
WindowsME bad
Windows98 good
Windows95 bad
Windows3.11 good

Blame it on the economy or whatever you want, but NO ONE that doesn't have a touch
screen wants the UI.

naap51stang said,
Who isn't surprised?
MS has an "every other one sucks" going for them.
Windows8 bad
Window7 good
Windows Vista bad
WindowsXP good
WindowsME bad
Windows98 good
Windows95 bad
Windows3.11 good

Blame it on the economy or whatever you want, but NO ONE that doesn't have a touch
screen wants the UI.

You forgot Windows 2000.

Let's say that the new Modern experience is not a failure but let's admit that on Desktop PCs and Laptops is NOT an improvement. I exclude tablets and touch friendly devices in this comment. Windows 8 is innovative on touch friendly devices and not an improvement over Desktop PCs. And the fact that I cannot play DVDs with WMP is a black ball on this OS for me.
However I observed revisions to Defragmenter , Task Manager and many other Windows native utilities but still not enough for me. As for Surface and other Windows 8 enabled touch devices .. they are just brilliant.( Still too highly priced for my budget right now)

Comment written on Windows 8 Core Edition. I will downgrade soon enough as my GPU is DirectX 11.0 only and Windows 7 runs perfectly for the moment. Cheers!

If this is true, I don't really see a big problem.

I think it's simply because it's such a huge change that it's going to take people time to be willing to switch. I know many people interested in switching, but most of those won't do so until they can find a time to do it where it wouldn't as be disruptive to their workflow. That and also many people don't feel the need to upgrade, especially if on a desktop or laptop, and will most likely do so only when they purchase a new device.

Because the OS is mostly geared for tablets and smartphones..you leave out people with laptops...or desktops...and more importantly...businesses. Cause Windows 8 is not for companies looking for a business type of operating system.

I'm getting used to the metro UI...but I could never see my company getting something like this for hundreds of people. Hell...my company still uses Windows XP. Next year...they will upgrade to Windows 7...but only because they won't be able to get support for XP next year.

I built my last system and bought a new laptop last year with both running Windows 7. During the past year I've run the Developers, Consumers and Pre-Release previews of Windows 8 in a virtual machine on the laptop (along with several different distros of Linux). I've been reluctant to say I was going to go with the final release of Windows 8 but eventually I decided to give it a try when it came out.

Last month I purchased a copy of Windows 8 Pro from the local Micro Center and installed it on my laptop as a dual boot system. After a couple of weeks of running it that way, I decided to give it a fair try and totally reformatted my laptop into a single partition and installed Windows 8 on it. However, after a few days of working with it I decided to revert back to my old Windows 7-based configuration (by restoring a full disk image of the laptop's hard drive from last month...)

I'll probably move to Windows 8 sometime in the future (I've run EVERY version of Windows since 1.0) and I was slow to install Windows XP when I was running Windows 98SE (and slow to install Vista when I was running Windows XP...) Eventually I'll see enough good comments about the stability of the new OS and will find enough apps that are specific to that OS to justify moving to it. Looking at Windows 8 (and specifically the Metro apps) I don't see enough right now to justify moving from Windows 7 - there are enough things that don't work any better than what they do in Win 7 and I miss the look of the Win 7 Aero environment. Plus I still like running gadgets on the desktop (and Windows 8 was designed to replace those items - especially after Microsoft discontinued support for them and pulled them from the personalization gallery...)

Maybe in a few months - I have the box on the shelf waiting for that time (I had Vista for over a year before I finally moved to that OS...)

Well. If this is confirmed true at a later date I do believe a Mr Neobond has agreed to gimme a free Subscriber2 sub when this current one expires since I did say this would happen.

Did anyone see this as a suprise? Not in the slightest. Like I mentioned in a earlier post this year, Windows 8 was (and still is) doomed to fail.

What microsoft needs to do now, is easy:
Windows 8 DE (desktop edition)
Windows 8 TE (tablet edition)

That's where their failure is, being arrogant to realise that most (a good 90% at least) use the desktop for their daily computing lives, and leave the tablet for taking on the train or the bus to and from work/uni/college.

Two editions are needed, and they can look and share characteristics of the same UI, but they need to be completely different in the way that they are used on both machines. But forcing this Metro style on users is just a lack of forward thinking on Microsofts part.

Sure, there are many who agree its great and useful, and yes on tablets I agree, however on the desktop to average everyday users, they look at it and simply go 'it looks good but OMG its so damn frustrating to use' - 'why does it take 10 taps of the screen to do what i could do in 1 or 2 on Windows 7?'

I don't know if Microsoft employees read these messages, but they really should all sit down in front of their computers, and really read and take in the feedback from sites like Neowin and others and build an OS that actually works for everyone.

Anarkii said,
Windows 8 DE (desktop edition)
Windows 8 TE (tablet edition)

There is no need for two editions, because some users would like to use their PC as a tablet on the road and as a Desktop (with large external monitor, keyboard and mouse) at home.

All MS had to do is to keep all Desktop features and make sure that they are not forcing user to switch between Desktop and Touch interface when user needs to perform basic OS tasks (like launching programs). Microsoft is a business company and as a business company they must make sure that customers are happy in order to sell their products. You can't push new technology by pushing people and by removing good and likable features. People don't like being pushed. This is why return of the start menu is so important. It looks like Microsoft executives went from "Supply & Demand" business model to "We know better what people need". This is the reason why Windows Phone 7 failed (bunch of missing core features, because MS decided to push Cloud down our throats) and this is the exactly same reason why Windows 8 is failing.

Not surprising... there's hardly a Touch enabled Laptop to be seen at any of the big retailers in the UK... never mind a tablet. I think the sales will really pick up in DEC... as the newer more optimised hardware is released (Touch PCs/Laptops & Tablets).

For those complaining about Win8 on a desktop.... stop being so stingy and get yourself a Logitech T650 TouchPad.

SCOOBY_666UK said,
For those complaining about Win8 on a desktop.... stop being so stingy and get yourself a Logitech T650 TouchPad.

I won't get a TouchPad if I don't need it, unless you send me one for free

robert_dll said,

I won't get a TouchPad if I don't need it, unless you send me one for free

Maybe once U upgrade... You won't find it too useful with 7

To be honest, this is the first Windows release in which I'm not interested. Vista was a good OS, it just needed some more work (aka Windows 7) because of the big changes from XP. Windows 8 on the other hand, seems like an alpha build to me... I simply hate the new desktop, I will keep using Seven.

All it takes is a rumor by someone who hasn't had such a good track record for the last few years to make the haters come out of the woodwork. So you guys are all jumping on some rumor that you were all thirsting for, and using it to conclude that windows 8 is a flop, and are dismissing the actual facts that have been released.

Let me refresh your memories

-Ballmer stating Windows 8 better to a start than 7

-4 million upgrades only in 3 days,and according to previous Microsoft statements,windows users pretty much NEVER upgrade.

-CEO of channel analyst Context says Windows 8 is doing better than Windows 7 did at launch in the Europe IT channel,this is significant because the economy is even shittier now.

-Windows 8 surpassing android web presence in a week, and Linux web presence in a few weeks,and according to the trend, ios shouldn't be too far away,likely a month.

-Soluto statistics saying Windows 8 now accounts for %3 of PCs.

But noooo, all of a sudden the word of Paul Thurott is as good as gold. And what if he was right. Do any of you know what Microsofts projections were? Maybe they were projecting double Windows 7 sales. Maybe they prepared for this massie launch but were disappointed they didn't reach that level of sales because Intel ****ed them because they're having ****ty yields on the new atom chip and that's delayed OEMs from getting actual tablets and pcs on the shelves.

Edited by vcfan, Nov 17 2012, 3:10am :

I don't need a history lesson and most people here don't either. we've all been at it for ages.
and lets not forget history tends to be a bit different depending on what angle you are trying so hard to push..
Which makes me think, why on earth are you so obviously upset that people hate windows 8 ?
Does it detract from your enjoyment or something ?
Why are you so heavily invested on discrediting anyone that complains about it ?

I also don't buy the general point your making here..
most of us are more than capable of reading a story headline title.
And the comments seem to reflect that (if you actually read them)
I think you are seeing and hearing what you want..

When Microsoft eventually changes some of these "great features" I wonder what all the people now defending how perfect it all is will say? I've tried it, twice now thinking maybe it was worth another shot, the annoyances outweigh any performance gains. How hard would have really been do develop a more polished GUI here? It's stunning the final version is so clumsy. I'm glad a few geeks love it, really, so happy for you, but you're in the minority, so trying to belittle others only makes you look silly.

I would like to see a way to completely separate desktop from Metro if I CHOOSE to, not if I do this just so, only go to Metro on a conscience choice. I would like to have more flexibility as a customer rather than having things forced on me for the benefit of a company's new economic profit model.

I hope it fails miserably only to show Microsoft what so many other companies didn't have the luxury of being able to fail at and survive...give customers what THEY want and they'll reward you for it. Poorly mimic another company's model and shove it down your customers throats and pay the price.

RT is going to fail as well. If they had just done Windows 8 for Desktop user, Windows 8 for Tablets it would have been a huge success and everyone would understand instantly what they are ... then MERGE them for W9.. but no, just had to push it. I have no sympathy but for me and the other users this will be forced on at some point.

I love windows 8 because it's faster than windows 7 and it's very stable. I can't wait for surface pro because it will offers me a powerful pc with a nice form factor that I can take everywhere. The only problem I see with windows 8 it's that MS have to get rid of the difference between metro and the old desktop. What I mean it's if I want to be in metro all the time give me the option to do it without go back and forth to the desktop.

I'm purchased 3 upgrade licenses myself, and I started off hating it. Wait till Christmas. It's really growing on me. I upgraded a friends laptop to Windows 7 and I actually tried to touch the screen. I couldn't go back to Windows 7. it's going to do fine. Waiting on more hardware, the Holidays, and more Modern Apps. just got my Lumia 920 today too.

Outside on the Surface, I can't really think of a single piece of wantable Windows 8 hardware. Maybe the Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga's at a stretch? But outside of that, OEM's aren't really offering anything attractive. ESPECIALLY on the tablet side. With so much effort focused on improving Windows' compatibility with tablets, you'd have thought OEM's would be jumping all over the place with attractive, competitive hardware.

Of course, then there's the question of why you'd need a new PC? At this point, hardware and software is stable enough that you could probably stay on 7 for two decades and still be happy.

Obviously Microsoft feel the need to make a new OS every few years, but for a computer user - if it works, it works. Until it breaks, they'll leave it be.

If true, this could have easily been avoided by simply properly segregating the two facets of Windows 8.

All they needed to do was provide some basic in-desktop means of searching installed programs and bam, 8 would of been fine to everyone except the people that were never going to buy it regardless.

The problem is, everyone is too caught up and obsessed by the Start Menu itself to address the core issues. Slap in a rudimentary replacement to the start menu for the desktop, bam. Problem solved, Metro fanboys can continue to live entirely in metroland, everyone else can continue to use the desktop and not be slapped around across two different UIs.


No surprise, negative reviews early on are more powerful than positive. Consumers will go by word of mouth which has hurt Microsoft in the past.

I'd leave the definitions of ignorance and arrogance here, but we already know them.

Microsoft and company however, appear to not.

I honestly don't understand why they just didn't give in and put the start menu back.
It'd have made the majority of the people complaining happy.

aviator189 said,
I honestly don't understand why they just didn't give in and put the start menu back.
It'd have made the majority of the people complaining happy.

Because Windows 8 with its modern UI is the product Microsoft is selling. The start screen is the desktop, startmenu, taskbar and windows explorer all in one. All those additions to Windows have been brought together in one new interface. Bringing back the startmenuwould go against everything they're trying to do with Windows 8.

The old desktop is there but only as an 'app', similar to how Windows 98 had DOS-mode. So the desktop is there as a windows in which people can launch their old applications. In time people will use the desktop less and less because they'll find similar apps that benefit from the new features of the modern UI.

So right now it seems like the Windows 8 experience is shattered because the desktop isnt integrated. But this appears to be a deliberate choice. They could have build the new UI around the old desktop but the limitations of the past would then limit what Windows 8 could be. You cant compete with new operating systems like iOS that way.

aviator189 said,
I honestly don't understand why they just didn't give in and put the start menu back.
It'd have made the majority of the people complaining happy.

interesting..
You got me thinking would i use win 8 if they put "it" back ?
I'm leaning to no because there is still a lot of things i don't like about it.
Great comment though if you get people thinking

paul thurott is the biggest flip flopper I've ever seen. sometimes someone at Microsoft tells him off or something,and he throws a fit. Just look at his recent articles lately, with the Android is the new windows,and other crap. I mean, like a week ago he was saying how surface was doing better than Microsoft anticipated.In the past he would go on about how windows 8 was great,and now he comes out and says ""Microsoft's new whatever-the-F-it-is operating system is a confusing.."

makes me laugh

vcfan said,
paul thurott is the biggest flip flopper I've ever seen. sometimes someone at Microsoft tells him off or something,and he throws a fit. Just look at his recent articles lately, with the Android is the new windows,and other crap. I mean, like a week ago he was saying how surface was doing better than Microsoft anticipated.In the past he would go on about how windows 8 was great,and now he comes out and says ""Microsoft's new whatever-the-F-it-is operating system is a confusing.."

makes me laugh

What are you laughing at? Your own inability to understand? What he's saying is a little like something thinking..'i like my car, but it goes like crap.'

He quite clearly says while he likes Windows 8, that it is a mish mash OS and he understands why people wouldn't like it as a result.

There, i explained it for you. Off you go now.

Walrush said,

What are you laughing at? Your own inability to understand? What he's saying is a little like something thinking..'i like my car, but it goes like crap.'

He quite clearly says while he likes Windows 8, that it is a mish mash OS and he understands why people wouldn't like it as a result.

There, i explained it for you. Off you go now.

you must have comprehension problems, because based on all my sentences, I was referring to the tone of his recent articles compared to his past ones, not his actual opinion.

There, I explained it for you. Off you go now back to using your favorite crippled mobile OS

Its simple, there's too little hardware for it. I'm waiting to purchase 3 new machines for work because the products that were promised on release date still aren't available. I really hope that OEMs aren't trying to send a message about Surface to Microsoft by delaying their products and letting Microsoft see the low sales their hardware generates.

Windows 7 is still relatively new to users and runs fine. W8 is going to sell on new touch friendly machines and rather slowly on upgrades. Doesn't make it a failure, but it does mean that they get their foot in the door for touch interfaces to push Metro. Which is what they want. W8 has a much larger possible install base than that of iOS. And with OS/X lagging behind the times by essentially dipping their toe in the water of "unifying" iOS, Microsoft gets an advantage going forward.

Ezekiel Carsella said,
we are listening to Thurrot still? cmon now man!

Thurrot is pretty damn knowledgeable and a great fella who still has some decent insiders at Microsoft.

LookitsPuck said,

Thurrot is pretty damn knowledgeable and a great fella who still has some decent insiders at Microsoft.

Not really. PT has been on the outs for over 5 years now as regards sources. Read some of his historical comments and you'll see that he really doesn't know a ton of what's going on anymore...

That's not to say that I don't occasionally look at what he has to say, or that I don't like the guy...but his information isn't quite rock-solid anymore.

I couldn't imagine Microsoft admitting this, it would be embarrassing for them but low sales don't surprise me. PC sales are dipping across the board. Seeing how things sell in the week leading up to Christmas will be interesting.

Well I've been running Windows 8 for a while now, and I get along fine in it. But that's because I rarely ever access the Start screen. Sometimes I'll hit the Start key just to admire how quick and smooth the Start screen fades in... Then I snicker at how horrid the whole thing looks, and how nonsensical Metro-style apps are on a desktop computer.

I think Windows 8 has some nice "under the hood" changes, and personally I would not go back to Windows 7. But that's only because I insist on staying current myself. I would feel almost guilty at recommending Windows 8 to someone else.

Maybe Metro would make more sense on a tablet device. But in that arena, I'm content with Android.

this news is actually contradicting other news that says how fast it is growing... in 18 days it captured 3% of the market... and in all the countries buying it... US is way behind. I think something is fishy about this article.

benalvino said,
this news is actually contradicting other news that says how fast it is growing... in 18 days it captured 3% of the market... and in all the countries buying it... US is way behind. I think something is fishy about this article.

There is a difference between not selling well and selling below Microsoft's expectations. If it's below Microsoft's expectations it means they actually didn't see it coming and got slightly out of touch with the consumer base.

Ambroos said,

There is a difference between not selling well and selling below Microsoft's expectations. If it's below Microsoft's expectations it means they actually didn't see it coming and got slightly out of touch with the consumer base.

well the news says an unnamed source... with no evidence. while others says its growing fast with evidence(statistic) data that shows how fast it is growing... Microsoft did not even say that... but a ghost said it. while it is possibly true... I just cant take this one over the others that provide data.

Ambroos said,

There is a difference between not selling well and selling below Microsoft's expectations. If it's below Microsoft's expectations it means they actually didn't see it coming and got slightly out of touch with the consumer base.

Ballmer did have unrealistic expectations for Windows 8. But I wouldnt be suprised if this rumor turned out to be true. Windows 8 looks weird to the average consumer, people dont just happily dive into the unknown. The PC market is shrinking (33% YOY in my country ) and Windows is unproven on tablets. This is going to be a slow ride, which isnt a bad thing unless you're expecting too much from it...

Anyone who seriously thinks W9 will be much different or wont have the start screen is on something very powerful. Just 3 weeks in, no decent hardware released, and definitely **** poor marketing hasnt helped. Nothing wrong with the OS, just the usual MS mismanagement.

I guess we can look forward to Windows 8 only selling a few hundred million copies then? That's rough, man. Really rough.

On another note, we have no idea what the sales figures are at this point and won't know until January some time. And, as people become accustomed to the interface and start to "get it" we'll see a rise in adoption. The question now is, will we see it sell 600+ million copies or a paltry 300-400 million?

I'm a huge fan of Windows 8 but I've always expected Windows 8 to be a slow sale. People just don't like change. Even Windows XP was too big of a difference for most people, after its first year it was considered a failure.

I think it will take time for people to discover and accept Windows 8. In the mean time Microsoft does need to release tons of updates to really bring the full Windows experience to the modern UI.. I'm happy that they cut out the noise but now its time to lissen to the users and bring back the stuff that they cut too deep.

Um let's see:

1. Paul Thurrott has been wrong many many many times in the past, he's pretty much become a nobody nowadays (ever since Vista/7 anyways).

2. You do realize that Black Friday / Christmas sales are almost here right? Why would anyone buy a computer in the past 2 weeks when if they just wait one more week they'll get the very same laptop/desktop for a lot cheaper?

3. Unnamed source really? Well this just in, my unnamed source claims that Apple is getting ready to release a brand new hexacore iPhone for $200 in December. No evidence to prove it, but my word is good enough.

4. Most people don't upgrade their windows, they just buy a new computer and the article says that we don't know if he was talking about upgrades or new purchases.

5. Look at how long it took XP or even 7 to replace the previous versions of Windows. They didn't suddenly get 50% marketshare overnight. 7 was the fastest selling Windows to date and even then it took like 2 years to overtake XP.

Edited by -Razorfold, Nov 16 2012, 10:31pm :

-Razorfold said,
Um let's see:

1. Paul Thurrott has been wrong many many many times in the past, he's pretty much become a nobody nowadays (ever since Vista/7 anyways).

2. You do realize that Black Friday / Christmas sales are almost here right? Why would anyone buy a computer in the past 2 weeks when if they just wait one more week they'll get the very same laptop/desktop for a lot cheaper?

3. Unnamed source really? Well this just in, my unnamed source claims that Apple is getting ready to release a brand new hexacore iPhone for $200 in December. No evidence to prove it, but my word is good enough.

4. Most people don't upgrade their windows, they just buy a new computer and the article says that we don't know if he was talking about upgrades or new purchases.

5. Look at how long it took XP or even 7 to replace the previous versions of Windows. They didn't suddenly get 50% marketshare overnight. 7 was the fastest selling Windows to date and even then it took like 2 years to overtake XP.

I'm the LAST guy to defend Windows 8 but you make a lot of sense here..
sounds fair to me

145 reviews on gdgt.com from users: 7.8 on average. Below Windows 7, but still not as catastrophic as the haters make it out to be.

Windows 8 is a necessary first step to Microsoft's future plan of combining OS's, kernels, and devices across the board.

Get Metro in the minds of users, push the Store, and the Metro end will become popular. THEN you can sell devices where the user has the option of buying Metro (which most users should want because of the apps once they start coming in) or having the desktop.

LookitsPuck said,
145 reviews on gdgt.com from users: 7.8 on average. Below Windows 7, but still not as catastrophic as the haters make it out to be.

41% of the reviews on newegg have rated it 1 out of 5, out of about 500 reviews

While I'm just fine with Windows 8, this could have been avoided if they listened to the tons of feedback users gave. So many people gave them really smart suggestions on how to incorporate the new Metro interface with the existing desktop for a cohesive user experience, and instead they just churned out article after article justifying not budging on anything.

I have no doubt over time MS will turn it around. ME didn't ruin MS, Vista didn't ruin MS, and Windows 8 will not either. We'll either finally get fully used to it, or they'll start throwing in some of features we asked them to put in from the start. (not talking about the start button).

John Eames said,
While I'm just fine with Windows 8, this could have been avoided if they listened to the tons of feedback users gave. So many people gave them really smart suggestions on how to incorporate the new Metro interface with the existing desktop for a cohesive user experience, and instead they just churned out article after article justifying not budging on anything.

I have no doubt over time MS will turn it around. ME didn't ruin MS, Vista didn't ruin MS, and Windows 8 will not either. We'll either finally get fully used to it, or they'll start throwing in some of features we asked them to put in from the start. (not talking about the start button).

FWIW, the company did listen to user feedback all the way from the Developer Preview up until/right after the Consumer Preview.

But, you can't push deadlines. And the reason why, IMHO, they eliminated the Start Button and menu was to push Metro and make it a simple environment for users that just want to goof around or do consumption based activities. Want to do something more? Stay in the desktop.

However, there are certainly some creaks here and there, and Microsoft has shown w/ Windows 7 that they're willing to listen to feedback. But it takes time. I think the biggest push was to get Metro in the hands of users, have developers develop for W8 AND WP8, etc.

John Eames said,
ME didn't ruin MS, Vista didn't ruin MS, and Windows 8 will not either.

Microsoft have a habit of taking 3 goes to get things right.

Maybe this WILL actually kill Microsoft. They have become a "middle aged" company unable to innovate, and for some stupid reason thought this new product was an innovation that would save them. It's not an innovation, its a retrogressive move, and everyone told them that from the first beta, but they refused to listen (to their own detriment).

LookitsPuck said,
FWIW, the company did listen to user feedback all the way from the Developer Preview up until/right after the Consumer Preview.

rubbish, the vast majority of feedback was that Metro and a touch interface was unwelcome on the desktop and they didn't listen.

Ity cost Sinofsky his job, and may well cost Microsoft their long held leadership in operating systems.

It could be because people are waiting for the Surface Pro to surface.

It also could be because Microsoft didn't release Office 2013 along with Windows 8.

It also could be because people don't give a damn about under the hood optimizations. And those under the hood optimizations are not really apparent in real world, except faster boot times.

It mostly could be because Microsoft failed to impress the reviewers.

Ambroos said,
Or you could just accept the truth and see that Windows 8 is an inferior product for many users.

Right! In all of the Windows 8 commercials all they have people doing is emails and picture sending. And the "Mail" app is HORRIBLE. Seems like MS is looking to "dumb-down" it's customer base.

yowanvista said,
Windows 8 is pretty much DOA

You have some personal interest in dooming Win8. If you do not like it don't bother about it.

honestly so far it is well above my expectations. Microsoft shouldn't expect people jump on a buggy unfinished OS over previous well tested, coherent and fluent Windows 7 OS. Although there are some performance improvements, There are many things about Windows 8 that make you say oh my god did this OS passed the quality control test?

S3P€hR said,
honestly so far it is well above my expectations. Microsoft shouldn't expect people jump on a buggy unfinished OS over previous well tested, coherent and fluent Windows 7 OS. Although there are some performance improvements, There are many things about Windows 8 that make you say oh my god did this OS passed the quality control test?

Care to inform us of all those bad things that got away from QCT?

"Microsoft's new whatever-the-F-it-is operating system is a confusing, Frankenstein's monster mix of old and new that hides a great desktop upgrade under a crazy Metro front-end. It's touch-first, as Microsoft says, but really it's touch whether you want it or not (or have it or not), and the firm's inability to give its own customers the choice to pick which UI they want is what really makes Windows 8 confounding to users."

QFT

Dashel said,
"Microsoft's new whatever-the-F-it-is operating system is a confusing, Frankenstein's monster mix of old and new that hides a great desktop upgrade under a crazy Metro front-end. It's touch-first, as Microsoft says, but really it's touch whether you want it or not (or have it or not), and the firm's inability to give its own customers the choice to pick which UI they want is what really makes Windows 8 confounding to users."

QFT

i just hope w7 still gets sp2.

There's 4 factors that caused this issue

1. Poor reviews from power users that are used to the old ways
2. Techs have allot of issues with the new uefi system the repair ability of the new system aren't friendly
3. Sales people are trained to be told windows 8 is bad for prime time
4. Poor marketing and not getting proper feedback if it was worth the investment into some of the changes.

Manarift said,
There's 4 factors that caused this issue

1. Poor reviews from power users that are used to the old ways
2. Techs have allot of issues with the new uefi system the repair ability of the new system aren't friendly
3. Sales people are trained to be told windows 8 is bad for prime time
4. Poor marketing and not getting proper feedback if it was worth the investment into some of the changes.


You forgot:

5. It wasn't primarily designed for non-touch devices which makes it less efficient for almost all users out-of-the-box.

Ambroos said,

You forgot:

5. It wasn't primarily designed for non-touch devices which makes it less efficient for almost all users out-of-the-box.


i didn't include that as there are a few mouse track pads that support the multi-touch gestures
But that can also be an issue for some that use windows 8

Ambroos said,

You forgot:

5. It wasn't primarily designed for non-touch devices which makes it less efficient for almost all users out-of-the-box.

It's just as easy to use on a non-touch system as Windows 7 was. What's it really matter that the start menu is now full screen? Ohh NOOO!!!

mrp04 said,

It's just as easy to use on a non-touch system as Windows 7 was. What's it really matter that the start menu is now full screen? Ohh NOOO!!!


It's not. It requires a lot more clicks, a lot more mouse travel and a lot less chances for muscle memory. It's not all about "bing possible", it's about being efficient too.

Manarift said,

i didn't include that as there are a few mouse track pads that support the multi-touch gestures
But that can also be an issue for some that use windows 8

I'll add a #6 to the list, Here in Canada's Capital, BestBuy doesn't even have a Windows 8 tablet on display, nor anything in stock. At Future Shop, they have one tablet but again not on display, hidden in a glass case behind other boxes. All the Windows 8 PCs they have on display are over 1,000$. So it glaringly shows that all they want to do is push their old crap before anything else, like the Windows 7 PCs with the 15$ Windows 8 upgrade.

So Microsoft might blame the PC makers, but I think that the retailers are in large part the ones to blame, and don't go blaming the poor clerks on the floor, it's upper management of the large retail chains that's to blame.

I think Microsoft is going in the right direction with their Physical Stores and their own line of PC/devices, BestBuy is slowly going out of business and getting desperate, that's too bad. I guess if and when they do sell their old stock, they will be placing orders for the newer stuff.

Ambroos said,

It's not. It requires a lot more clicks, a lot more mouse travel and a lot less chances for muscle memory. It's not all about "bing possible", it's about being efficient too.

I find Windows 8 to be very efficient. Switching apps is really easy to me. I dont see what the problem is. Normally you go to the left corner for the startbutton. Its still there just hidden. But from that same position you can move up and easily switch apps. The upperleft corner is also useful to quickly switch between apps. Its very easy to find a corner, you dont even need to aim for it, you cant miss it.

But the real productivity benefit are the charms. The search charm is brilliant and my no.1 way to switch between apps. From start you can immediatly search for an wiki article. You open the app and the article you want at the same time. The setting charm is also useful because no matter what app you use, settings are in one place. Sharing content with the share charm is also very useful. No need to copy/paste stuff anymore. Its one click now.

but things are compleetly different because they've been reimagined from the grounds up. This is Windows 8's biggest strength and weakness. Some people cant adapt, others refuse to adapt and many more have a hard time adapting. But once they do and the strengths of the modern UI becomes clear, I think Windows 8 sales will pick up. But that will likely be one year from now.

Ambroos said,

It's not. It requires a lot more clicks, a lot more mouse travel and a lot less chances for muscle memory. It's not all about "bing possible", it's about being efficient too.

No, it doesn't. The number of clicks is pretty much the same, and in some cases even less.

http://i.imgur.com/kfGEu.jpg

People, stop whining and start customizing your start screen. It's just a fullscreen start menu.

Ronnet said,

I find Windows 8 to be very efficient. Switching apps is really easy to me. I dont see what the problem is. Normally you go to the left corner for the startbutton. Its still there just hidden. But from that same position you can move up and easily switch apps. The upperleft corner is also useful to quickly switch between apps. Its very easy to find a corner, you dont even need to aim for it, you cant miss it.

But the real productivity benefit are the charms. The search charm is brilliant and my no.1 way to switch between apps. From start you can immediatly search for an wiki article. You open the app and the article you want at the same time. The setting charm is also useful because no matter what app you use, settings are in one place. Sharing content with the share charm is also very useful. No need to copy/paste stuff anymore. Its one click now.

but things are compleetly different because they've been reimagined from the grounds up. This is Windows 8's biggest strength and weakness. Some people cant adapt, others refuse to adapt and many more have a hard time adapting. But once they do and the strengths of the modern UI becomes clear, I think Windows 8 sales will pick up. But that will likely be one year from now.


Don't get me wrong, the Metro UI is good for tablets and touch-based devices. But the whole huge relatively basic fullscreen app is ridiculous for desktops.

And there are still annoying things. The weather app for example. When I scroll in it (vertical scroll) it scrolls horizontally through it. The actual horizontal scroll on my touchpad hardly ever works in Metro. How intiuitive. But then in the Weather app while scrolling vertically to make the window move horizontally suddenly my cursor ends up on a scrollable temperature list. And now I can't scroll in the app itself anymore. My vertical scroll now only acts as an actual vertical scroll in this list. You'd think I could use horizontal scroll to get out of that list, but nope. I have to actually use my mouse. Because god forbid Microsoft putting anything intuitive like horizontal scrolling actually making things scrolling horizontally in Windows 8.

And that just proves Microsoft didn't pay enough attention to the Windows 8 experience for mouse/touchpad and keyboard users. It's unintuitive and just not effective.

Ambroos said,

When I scroll in it (vertical scroll) it scrolls horizontally through it. .

I just can't understand why people are having problem with that

oliver182 said,

I just can't understand why people are having problem with that


Because it doesn't make sense when my touchpad has horizontal scroll capabilities. And also because once I hit an area in the horizontal scrolling view that scrolls vertically then the behaviour switches. It's problematic because it's not consistent. In Windows 7 my vertical scroll scrolls vertically and my horizontal scroll scrolls horizontally. In Windows 8 I just have to try both and hope one of them works (and even that isn't always the case). GOOD JOB MS.

eddman said,
People, stop whining and start customizing your start screen. It's just a fullscreen start menu.

WTF would I want a fullscreen start menu. GIVE ME BACK THE DESKTOP as default and a start button for use as required!

Ambroos said,

It's not. It requires a lot more clicks, a lot more mouse travel and a lot less chances for muscle memory. It's not all about "bing possible", it's about being efficient too.

Um... windows 8 is way more efficient. All you gotta do is press the win key and start typing.

Ambroos said,

Because it doesn't make sense when my touchpad has horizontal scroll capabilities. And also because once I hit an area in the horizontal scrolling view that scrolls vertically then the behaviour switches. It's problematic because it's not consistent. In Windows 7 my vertical scroll scrolls vertically and my horizontal scroll scrolls horizontally. In Windows 8 I just have to try both and hope one of them works (and even that isn't always the case). GOOD JOB MS.

You are just to focused on that, I just move my finger, I'm no thinking what direction.

New laptops come with multitouch vertical scrolling, so that isn't a problem on new hardware.

oliver182 said,

You are just to focused on that, I just move my finger, I'm no thinking what direction.

New laptops come with multitouch vertical scrolling, so that isn't a problem on new hardware.


What. My laptop has multitouch AND edge scrolling in whatever direction I want. Don't pull the "new hardware" card on me. The fact is that Microsoft ruined a perfectly good horizontal scroll experience from Windows 7. They could have at least retained the ability to scroll horizontally too.

Ambroos said,

Don't get me wrong, the Metro UI is good for tablets and touch-based devices. But the whole huge relatively basic fullscreen app is ridiculous for desktops.

And there are still annoying things. The weather app for example. When I scroll in it (vertical scroll) it scrolls horizontally through it. The actual horizontal scroll on my touchpad hardly ever works in Metro. How intiuitive. But then in the Weather app while scrolling vertically to make the window move horizontally suddenly my cursor ends up on a scrollable temperature list. And now I can't scroll in the app itself anymore. My vertical scroll now only acts as an actual vertical scroll in this list. You'd think I could use horizontal scroll to get out of that list, but nope. I have to actually use my mouse. Because god forbid Microsoft putting anything intuitive like horizontal scrolling actually making things scrolling horizontally in Windows 8.

And that just proves Microsoft didn't pay enough attention to the Windows 8 experience for mouse/touchpad and keyboard users. It's unintuitive and just not effective.

Why would you want to use the tablet mode on a Desktop? I have been using Windows 8 for months now and I don't need to go to the start menu unless I want to use Metro Apps. What is all the fuzz about this crap?

Ben920 said,

Um... windows 8 is way more efficient. All you gotta do is press the win key and start typing.


And hope you're looking for an app. Because if you're looking for a file or setting you'll have to switch categories first.

In Windows 7 I just hit the Windows key and type and I always get results without first having to pick the right category. THAT is efficient.

Ambroos said,

What. My laptop has multitouch AND edge scrolling in whatever direction I want. Don't pull the "new hardware" card on me. The fact is that Microsoft ruined a perfectly good horizontal scroll experience from Windows 7. They could have at least retained the ability to scroll horizontally too.

Well that's not the multitouch I'm talking about, I'm talking about two-finger scrolling to either way, no edge scrolling whatsoever.

To bad you can't "ignore" that "problem".

Relax dude, enjoy life, don't bitter yourself.

It's finally friday. I'm out

oliver182 said,

Well that's not the multitouch I'm talking about, I'm talking about two-finger scrolling to either way, no edge scrolling whatsoever.

To bad you can't "ignore" that "problem".

Relax dude, enjoy life, don't bitter yourself.

It's finally friday. I'm out


Sigh. I meant that I have two-finger scrolling (aka multitouch) AND edge scrolling. I have two-finger taps too, three-finger taps, two-finger-hold+1-finger-tap, ... I'm not bittering myself, you're blatantly ignoring things.

Manarift said,
i didn't include that as there are a few mouse track pads that support the multi-touch gestures
But that can also be an issue for some that use windows 8

'Feature complete' touchpad drivers won't be made available till next year according to Synaptic which means that not all touch functions are mapped to touchpad gestures.

Manarift said,
There's 4 factors that caused this issue

1. Poor reviews from power users that are used to the old ways
2. Techs have allot of issues with the new uefi system the repair ability of the new system aren't friendly
3. Sales people are trained to be told windows 8 is bad for prime time
4. Poor marketing and not getting proper feedback if it was worth the investment into some of the changes.

Tiring seeing the we're used to the old ways crap..
I am oh soo resistant to change too right ?
lol nope.
bs.

Imposing crappy excuses on other people may not make your boat float.
double check that puppy before you set sail chief..
and this is directed more to all the people who harp on this point and not the commentor..

NocturnalAlloy

I'll add a #6 to the list, Here in Canada's Capital, BestBuy doesn't even have a Windows 8 tablet on display, nor anything in stock. At Future Shop, they have one tablet but again not on display, hidden in a glass case behind other boxes.

Fair point..
Good god that places is a joke !
They still don't even stock SSD hard drives lol
Gets pretty old going there for a bad selection of products only to have them tell you sorry but we can order it in for you.. and would you like to buy an extended warranty with that ???? and how about some cables with 3,000x mark up ?
uhh.. no thanks.. i'll shop anywhere else online get it cheap thanks lol

Manarift said,
There's 4 factors that caused this issue

1. Poor reviews from power users that are used to the old ways
2. Techs have allot of issues with the new uefi system the repair ability of the new system aren't friendly
3. Sales people are trained to be told windows 8 is bad for prime time
4. Poor marketing and not getting proper feedback if it was worth the investment into some of the changes.

don't forget to ad that many av's and programs cause bsod on w8.

WinA said,
I'm not suprised ;

No sir, It did not failed hard. Only the adaption is kind of slow because of your kind of users. Unable to change (pls. do not start the obvious as I only mentioned the fact).

jaffers said,

No sir, It did not failed hard. Only the adaption is kind of slow because of your kind of users. Unable to change (pls. do not start the obvious as I only mentioned the fact).

i guess if you disliked the corn flakes you just can't handle change and are stuck in your old ways then huh ?
right...

I am Not PCyr said,

i guess if you disliked the corn flakes you just can't handle change and are stuck in your old ways then huh ?
right...

What the hell are you going on about?
Just stop for the sake of the community go away and hide in a hole.

Thank god. If Windows 8 turns out to be a major fail on the sales side then Microsoft might finally realize that you can't just alienate your most important consumer base (desktop users) because you want a bite of the tablet pie too.

When Microsoft releases an update or a next version of Windows with proper desktop multitasking improvements and a way to get rid of horibbly inefficient full-screen apps I'll be hosting a party and doing this: http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/b...s/2011/02/OPRAH-CAR-GIF.gif

Ambroos said,
Thank god. If Windows 8 turns out to be a major fail on the sales side then Microsoft might finally realize that you can't just alienate your most important consumer base (desktop users) because you want a bite of the tablet pie too.

When Microsoft releases an update or a next version of Windows with proper desktop multitasking improvements and a way to get rid of horibbly inefficient full-screen apps I'll be hosting a party and doing this: http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/b...s/2011/02/OPRAH-CAR-GIF.gif


The desktop experience is completely fine, the only change is the removal of the start button. The marketing has alienated the current userbase not the actual software. The non-touch elements haven't been promoted enough leading people to believe that the desktop is now a secondary function. Which could then send a message that their non-touch computers won't benefit from Windows 8 or even run it. The actual software is much better than Windows 7 which now seems really basic and slow.

Ambroos said,
Thank god. If Windows 8 turns out to be a major fail on the sales side then Microsoft might finally realize that you can't just alienate your most important consumer base (desktop users) because you want a bite of the tablet pie too.

When Microsoft releases an update or a next version of Windows with proper desktop multitasking improvements and a way to get rid of horibbly inefficient full-screen apps I'll be hosting a party and doing this: http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/b...s/2011/02/OPRAH-CAR-GIF.gif

You just brag on Windows 8 just for the sake of it. People like you make a great product fail. Fault is on you, not Microsoft. Learn to adapt, caveman.

Jarrichvdv said,

You just brag on Windows 8 just for the sake of it. People like you make a great product fail. Fault is on you, not Microsoft. Learn to adapt, caveman.


I am adapting. I'm planning on getting a Mac.

Seriously though. No matter how much I adapt (and I tried for many weeks with many different setups) I can't work as well in Windows 8 as in Windows 7. The new start screen search splits everything up into categories by default (even if there aren't any results in the first category it still shows them), which pretty much always forces you to select a category before you find what you want. Start menu replacements simply aren't as good since with one wrong click you end back up in the Metro start screen, which re-enables the hot corners and sometimes re-grabs your Windows key assignment.

And, while this is personal, I still think the desktop visual style looks bad. Everything is incredibly dull or light. Inactive windows are always too light. Set a dark active window colour and you can't read title bars anymore since the blurry text shadow from Vista/7 is gone too.

Microsoft really did design Windows 8 as a touch-first operating system and then later on (you can tell by the way the beta's progressed) retrofitted a keyboard and mouse to it. Then they sort of half-attempted to fix the desktop but in the end it's just absolutely not as good. Sure, it boots a bit faster. But then logon takes longer since it's prioretizing the Start Screen boot routine over the desktop. Heck, my wallpaper doesn't even show at logon, that's something Microsoft got right since Windows XP and now they ruined it.

And well, I'm not the only one (by far) who dislikes Windows 8. I hear random people I know telling me they heard Windows 8 isn't really good because it's "made for tablets". Heck, they even said on the national (state-owned) TV news that Windows 8 is a touch-based OS. Almost everyone seems to agree on it aside some fanatic Metro fans who think it's all amazing. We're both right and wrong in some areas, but you can't deny the fact that Microsoft isn't prioretizing their most important target audience, the desktop user, over all other scenarios anymore. And that's stupid.

People like you seriously need to stop being so fussy and adapt with technology.. windows 8 is fine on a desktop, you should barely even notice the difference between windows 8 and windows 7 except for boot time and a faster, smoother OS ... oh im sorry ? you have to press desktop everytime you log in.. adapt.

Gaffney said,

The desktop experience is completely fine, the only change is the removal of the start button. The marketing has alienated the current userbase not the actual software. The non-touch elements haven't been promoted enough leading people to believe that the desktop is now a secondary function. Which could then send a message that their non-touch computers won't benefit from Windows 8 or even run it. The actual software is much better than Windows 7 which now seems really basic and slow.

It's NOT just the removal of the "Start Button". the Start page is NOT the problem. You can just use the start page like a start button. The problem is the navigation constantly between TWO OS's, (Win8 Metero and Win8 Desktop) and their individual apps...

It is confusing for those trying to actually work.

Ambroos said,
Thank god. If Windows 8 turns out to be a major fail on the sales side then Microsoft might finally realize that you can't just alienate your most important consumer base (desktop users) because you want a bite of the tablet pie too.

When Microsoft releases an update or a next version of Windows with proper desktop multitasking improvements and a way to get rid of horibbly inefficient full-screen apps I'll be hosting a party and doing this: http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/b...s/2011/02/OPRAH-CAR-GIF.gif


Please!!! for the love of technology... get off the ignorance bandwagon... There is nothing different about Windows 8 if you choose it to be, the only big difference is that it does not have a classic start menu and if you are so eager to have it back then buy any of the third party options out there. The experience is so much better in the desktop that everyone should be happy. WhY do the same people keep screaming about the same crap that they took away the start menu? Sure they most likely hate change but the people that scream on sites like this are so called "power users" so there should be no problem with this.. Geez!!! Albert E. was right.. stupidity is infinite...

Adapt to what? a rewritten jQuery, forced down our throats piece of screen? You haven't got a damn clue about what "technology" is in the first place. Must be really sad to get those "2 years engineering courses" and think you know it all. And all you metro lovers..grow up..It's utterly ugly from many perspectives and completely <b>inconsistent</b> in the desktop experience.

Ben920 said,
People like you seriously need to stop being so fussy and adapt with technology.. windows 8 is fine on a desktop, you should barely even notice the difference between windows 8 and windows 7 except for boot time and a faster, smoother OS ... oh im sorry ? you have to press desktop everytime you log in.. adapt.

Lion and Lamb Ministry said,

It's NOT just the removal of the "Start Button". the Start page is NOT the problem. You can just use the start page like a start button. The problem is the navigation constantly between TWO OS's, (Win8 Metero and Win8 Desktop) and their individual apps...

It is confusing for those trying to actually work.

Using metro apps is COMPLETELY OPTIONAL. You want Win7 experience, right? Does Win7 have Metro apps? No. So don't use them on Win8, and you'll have the EXACT SAME THING. Your argument just doesn't make ANY sense.

crush2k7 said,
Adapt to what? a rewritten jQuery, forced down our throats piece of screen? You haven't got a damn clue about what "technology" is in the first place. Must be really sad to get those "2 years engineering courses" and think you know it all. And all you metro lovers..grow up..It's utterly ugly from many perspectives and completely <b>inconsistent</b> in the desktop experience.

Rage much?

Perhaps you should go along to the Adult Education courses where they teach adults and the older generation how to use a mouse and keyboard and other skills for navigating the GUI, they might even teach you how to play Solitaire, although I think that's level two.

Jarrichvdv said,
Learn to adapt, caveman.
There is time when people have to adapt to technology and there is time when technology must be adapted to people.

Windows 8 is poorly designed for the desktop PC (large vertical screen + keyboard + mouse). Start menu allowed to execute tasks with minimal movement and obstruction. Desktop PC is ergonomically SUPERIOR over touch screen. Imagine that you have to write and switch between programs all day long with the hands in the air. By the end of the day you won't be able to move them and your fingertips will be in pain. You don't have to stop using knife for slicing meat just because somebody put spoon on the table. Of course you can try to use spoon for everything and look "cool" amongst other monkeys, but people with experience would disagree.

EJocys said,
There is time when people have to adapt to technology and there is time when technology must be adapted to people.

Windows 8 is poorly designed for the desktop PC (large vertical screen + keyboard + mouse). Start menu allowed to execute tasks with minimal movement and obstruction. Desktop PC is ergonomically SUPERIOR over touch screen. Imagine that you have to write and switch between programs all day long with the hands in the air. By the end of the day you won't be able to move them and your fingertips will be in pain. You don't have to stop using knife for slicing meat just because somebody put spoon on the table. Of course you can try to use spoon for everything and look "cool" amongst other monkeys, but people with experience would disagree.


Navigating the new UI is same as the old one . U can do everything u want just using the keyboard or just using the mouse or just using the trackpad or jus using touch and if u want u can use a combination of all the above.
I think u need to see see video tutorials and try it out . Also multitasking is better IMO coz the app resizes instead of just a resized window with two scroll bars , which actually makes its easier to use simultaneously opened apps as u don't have scroll or stack them . I m not saying that the new UI is better than desktop , but its a step in the right direction as It does more (functionally and more efficiently ) than other touch based OSes without letting go of all the keyboard , mouse and trackpad functionalities and shortcuts that we have got used to as Windows users.

Wow... The fanboism went too far! Now they think they can tell us when and how can we be happy! Because you don't have problem, neither we must have, right? Certainly you aren't serious.

Ambroos said,

I am adapting. I'm planning on getting a Mac.

Seriously though. No matter how much I adapt (and I tried for many weeks with many different setups) I can't work as well in Windows 8 as in Windows 7.

So you can't get used to the changes in Windows 8 over Windows 7 therefore you're getting a Mac?

Because a Mac is completely like Windows 7?

technikal said,
Because a Mac is completely like Windows 7?

Probably not that its more like Windows 7, more like its not at all like Windows 8...which is an atrocity

Ben920 said,
People like you seriously need to stop being so fussy....

if i go to your house and pee in your corn flakes i will be saying the same thing if you dare have the audacity and nerve to complain..

Ben920 said,
People like you seriously .......

@Ben920. You are right.

I am a heavy desktop user and still like the start screen with all the live tiles. Full screen app are fine too. Stopped using the IE of desktop. Win8 is indeed smooth and faster then Win7. I installed the start8 and later removed it and have fully adapted to new UI. There indeed is never an issue of using mouse in UI except if one face difficulty in adapting to new ways. Period

Ambroos said,
Thank god. If Windows 8 turns out to be a major fail on the sales side then Microsoft might finally realize that you can't just alienate your most important consumer base (desktop users) because you want a bite of the tablet pie too.

When Microsoft releases an update or a next version of Windows with proper desktop multitasking improvements and a way to get rid of horibbly inefficient full-screen apps I'll be hosting a party and doing this: http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/b...s/2011/02/OPRAH-CAR-GIF.gif

How have desktop users been alienated? Have you actually used windows 8? Your comments make me think not.

Mikeffer said,

How have desktop users been alienated? Have you actually used windows 8? Your comments make me think not.


I have used Windows 8 as my only OS for two weeks with all possible start menu replacements. I think that gives me a good idea of what it's like.

Mikeffer said,

How have desktop users been alienated? Have you actually used windows 8? Your comments make me think not.

strange you and others have this "matter of fact" challenge deal goin on..
like i can't fathom what difference it makes when a person has more than enough info to make a decision.. this retort is always bs.
I for one am a computer expert and have no difficulty saying that.. its true.
Do i need to go to school and take a tutorial from Microsoft so that i know what i like ?
I don't care who they think they are. M$ can kiss my ass !
Do you REALLY need to eat the corn flakes ? Or is me telling you that i ****ed in them enough ?
People pull this angle as a desperate fleeting pathetic attempt to discredit those that CHOOSE not to like windows 8. If you don't sell your car and ride a unicycle to work because i TOLD you to then your wrong because you didn't even try it.
If your gonna use logic like this people go get yourself a bloody helmet first.
..the short bus leaves at 8am sharp.

Jarrichvdv said,

You just brag on Windows 8 just for the sake of it. People like you make a great product fail. Fault is on you, not Microsoft. Learn to adapt, caveman.

oh please, if it weren't for start8 id request my money back. w8 sucks as much as vista did, it's about as buggy too. im glad i only got it for $40 but i plan on going back to w7 this weekend, i need a stable os. about the only thing i give w8 props for is speed.

I am Not PCyr said,

strange you and others have this "matter of fact" challenge deal goin on..
like i can't fathom what difference it makes when a person has more than enough info to make a decision.. this retort is always bs.
I for one am a computer expert and have no difficulty saying that.. its true.
Do i need to go to school and take a tutorial from Microsoft so that i know what i like ?
I don't care who they think they are. M$ can kiss my ass !
Do you REALLY need to eat the corn flakes ? Or is me telling you that i ****ed in them enough ?
People pull this angle as a desperate fleeting pathetic attempt to discredit those that CHOOSE not to like windows 8. If you don't sell your car and ride a unicycle to work because i TOLD you to then your wrong because you didn't even try it.
If your gonna use logic like this people go get yourself a bloody helmet first.
..the short bus leaves at 8am sharp.

Those with no real answer always resort to personal attacks

The rest of your post made little sense.

Although I like Win 8 personally, I am not surprised by the disappointing sales number. But I do believe that it will pick up in time as more people exposed to it.

Aletheia said,
Although I like Win 8 personally, I am not surprised by the disappointing sales number. But I do believe that it will pick up in time as more people exposed to it.

or, it will tank harder as more people are exposed to it.

People are still waiting for all the actual good stuff... Asus Transformer Book, Surface Pro...

Most stores i went in didn't even have Win 8 PC's until 2 - 3 weeks after the launch date.

NoClipMode said,
People are still waiting for all the actual good stuff... Asus Transformer Book, Surface Pro...

Most stores i went in didn't even have Win 8 PC's until 2 - 3 weeks after the launch date.

That's truly what we call "High Expectations". It didn't go well at the beginning for many reasons, and it will make the "bam" when even more expensive devices will come? *Sigh*

For some reason you just don't want to realise Windows 8 is Vista all over again. You will, sooner or later.

PC EliTiST said,
For some reason you just don't want to realise Windows 8 is Vista all over again. You will, sooner or later.

Good hardware sells software. Win 8 is an OS that really needs hardware specifically made for it to properly shine. And keep talking, a year from now when it's sold atleast as good as 7 in the same period i'm going be laughing at people like you.

Panda X said,
Is the image necessary?

I changed the image -- thanks for the suggestion. Feel free to report complaints or make suggestions by hovering over the article author's name and clicking "Report a problem with article."

zeta_immersion said,

Of course my first thought was does she wear a thong .. I know nothing to do with Win 8 but a better image than Metro


Half-naked chick and I missed it?
Anthony, WHY?

At least provide the link for the latecomers.

GS:mac

zeta_immersion said,

Of course my first thought was does she wear a thong .. I know nothing to do with Win 8 but a better image than Metro

I hope its a red thong.

Glassed Silver said,

Half-naked chick and I missed it?
Anthony, WHY?

At least provide the link for the latecomers.

GS:mac

HAHA! There was a half-naked chick and he changed the image to Indians with lasers pointing at their heads? lol