Samsung CEO: "Lackluster demand" for Windows devices

Samsung's new co-CEO, JK Shin (formerly of the Mobile Communications department), has come out and complained about the state of Windows in the market, saying there is "lackluster demand" for Windows 8/RT tablets and Windows Phone smartphones. In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, he also goes on to say that the market prefers devices that run Android over those running Microsoft's operating systems.

WSJ: What about your relationship with Microsoft? Has it changed after Nokia began to work more closely with Microsoft on Windows devices?

Mr. Shin: Smartphones and tablets based on Microsoft's Windows operating system aren't selling very well. There is a preference in the market for Android. In Europe, we're also seeing lackluster demand for Windows-based products.

This isn't the first time that Samsung has complained about Windows, with Jun Dong-soo of the memory division calling Windows 8 "no better than the previous Windows Vista platform". Samsung also got cold feet in the United States with Windows RT, pulling plans to launch their Samsung ATIV Tab in the region (and potentially elsewhere).

It's clear that Samsung's priorities lie with Android, after an extravagant launch event in New York City today for the Galaxy S4. While the company's strategy "has always been to work with multiple operating software companies", at least according to Mr. Shin, it seems like they currently prefer to work with Google than Microsoft.

Source: WSJ

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We have had Win8 devices on order since the start of the year at work which have not been delivered yet. I think its supply chain issues and OEMs preferring to shifting old Win 7 stock that's the problem.

I guess it's easier for most people to just blame Microsoft all the time. Windows 8 is a great OS and if people are that blind to see it, or too stubborn to give it a shot, then it's their loss.

dtourond said,
Windows 8 is a great OS and if people are that blind to see it, or too stubborn to give it a shot, then it's their loss.

Well, no, it's Microsoft's loss too, because they aren't getting the sales. It's a shame because the problems were all foreseeable from the dev and consumer preview reactions, but it was MS that was too stubborn, too stubborn to listen.
For my part, I want a Surface Pro (but still waiting for MS to release in Europe ... ). But then, I'll be configuring it the way I want it (cough start8 cough).
Sadly, many people have instead just given up on Win8 first. For a rough guide to how it's been received, compare the customer reviews on Amazon for Win7 and for Win8. It's a reasonably large and diverse sample, and the clear preference for Win7 and dislike of WIn8 are apparent. The non-customers aren't "blind" or "stubborn", they are just exercising their choice not to buy.
But MS seems to prefer to be pure to its misconceived UI principles rather than be profitable. Shame, if only it would listen.

gb8080 said
Well, no, it's Microsoft's loss too, because they aren't getting the sales. It's a shame because the problems were all foreseeable from the dev and consumer preview reactions, but it was MS that was too stubborn, too stubborn to listen.
It's not always the companies fault though. If people are willing to not use an OS just because of one minor problem that can be solved in 10 minutes, then it is their loss.

gb8080 said
But then, I'll be configuring it the way I want it (cough start8 cough).
Whatever works for you. I moved on from the Start Menu and I now use the Start Screen which works better for me in several ways.

gb8080 said
The non-customers aren't "blind" or "stubborn", they are just exercising their choice not to buy.
Well anyone can exercise that, but it's why they're doing that, that really boggles my mind. I think they are blind because they're just looking at the Start Screen and turning it away, without looking at all the features and improvements that it brings. I think they are stubborn because some people just can't understand that sometimes change is a good thing.

dtourond said,
some people just can't understand that sometimes change is a good thing.

To be fair. It's a difficult concept when all your life you're told that stagnation is the goal and you should steer clear from change. And then suddenly Windows 8 comes along and you're asked to throw your lifelong aversion to change overboard. That's just not very realistic.

CSharp. said
To be fair. It's a difficult concept when all your life you're told that stagnation is the goal and you should steer clear from change. And then suddenly Windows 8 comes along and you're asked to throw your lifelong aversion to change overboard. That's just not very realistic.
In 1995, Microsoft changed the game for Windows. They changed the UI in 3 big ways.

1 - The Start Menu
2 - Windows Explorer
3 - The Taskbar
.. and many other little add-ons

I'm absolutely sure that there were people who didn't use it because of the changes and some who embraced it and loved it. The point is, 18 years later, the changes that they made were great changes. Over time, as people get used to Windows 8, most of them will realize that these are great changes; but, if they don't try, how will they know.

Samsung has become grapple. Now they say sales are lackluster...we'll, if you advertised and pushed your products maybe they would sell. Look what you did with your crappilly made galaxy phones, make a commercial using your Windows 8 tablets versus ipads or android tablets and use the same marketing technique. I wonder why they don't....I know, they see MS as a owm now because of the Surface that's why.

the problem is Samsung PCs suck, and so do their tablets Lenovo and Acer are doing much nicer work where Samsung doesn't care.

and those chromebooks, how are those selling? they seem to have dropped of the face of the earth faster than the Linux netbooks and they don't even register in the OS share counters because so few sold have actually made it to consumers.

Questions.
How hard would it be for a premium grade smartphone, to support different OS's?
Because i don't think it would be hard, why haven't we seen any yet?
It would be cool to see Galaxy or any other, run android, windows, any linux-based, firefoxOS, either alltogether (multiboot) or independently by choosing the corresponding model.
The specs of the high-end smartphones, i'm pretty sure they're more than enough to pull this off.
So why isn't any company doing it?

I think the only people left in disillusion are some at NeoWin's forms, and Ballmer I strongly believe that Microsoft is now working hard on Windows 9 with everything from Windows 7 + 8

Windows 8 did not sell and will not sell, releasing Windows Blue as an update or SP to 8 will be a mistake, the name 8 is already tainted, I believe that 9 is coming very soon, it will be Windows 8 with speed updates and the good things in 7, and everyone will be happy.

or maybe Android will merge with Chrome OS and we will get a Cloud / Local hybrid, then I will be very happy to uninstall Windows forever.

Don't care. I will buy devices that fit my needs and enjoy them and could care less about joining a bandwagon or am I concerned with sales. Win8 pro are tablets are pc's. Do i care how many Aleinware laptops have sold?

Funny I remember how they same things were being said about windows XP.. How it was the worst os ms had ever made.. How it was ugly and childish looking. I'll wait for the long haul before commenting on Microsoft's demise..

who said anything about MS demise?

MS has its fingers ina lot of pies and wont be going away soon.

worst comes to worst they can just pull the plug on win 8, win9 can be a "old style"

not that I think it will happen.

but the point is win 8 for desktop needs a bit of work

im not sure why its so hard for the fanboys to admit/accept this statement...

Can anyone of the geniuses who said the Surface is doing badly, please reference the amount of Samsung Galaxy Tabs or Motorola Tablets that were sold in their first initial quarter? Was it over 2 million units each? Also, when you extract the Amazon Kindle from the total Android units sold, how many Android tablets got sold? Do not get me wrong MS; mainly Ballmer screwed the Surface RT with the pricing. I just hate the fact that most of the people who speak such doom and gloom never make true comparisons.

To me, he means “there is ‘lackluster demand' for SAMSUNG Windows tablets and SAMSUNG phones” :-D I'm waiting for Surface Pro and Nokia 928 :-p

All these desktop companies don't realize they're planning their own obsolescence by not moving to new form factors.

GreyWolf said,
All these desktop companies don't realize they're planning their own obsolescence by not moving to new form factors.

Isn't that a Samsung hybrid laptop/tablet device at the top of the page?

CSharp. said,

Isn't that a Samsung hybrid laptop/tablet device at the top of the page?

Yes. But what is so great about it? What is there to it that makes me want to run out and buy one compared to a Surface?

These companies want to put out bland hardware, and think they'll make a billion and one sales. It doesn't take an idiot to realize that won't happen.

Dot Matrix said,
what is so great about it? What is there to it that makes me want to run out and buy one

I have no idea what (if anything) is great about it.

But it seems to me, contrary to what GreyWolf seemed to suggest, Samsung has in fact moved to new form factors. Windows 8 should be able to shine on a device like this, shouldn't it?

I really don't see what the deal here is, Acer and Samsung are just ****y that MS now does hardware and Win8 sales haven't been stella...

I'm not an "industry analyst" but even I could tell you win8 wasn't going to have magical sales numbers. Neither did Vista but the technology in that led to Win7 which has been huge. Same will hold true of Win8 to win9. Sometimes you have to take smaller steps to get to where you are going, rushing it leads to Windows Me and MS Kin.

It's how if he hopes telling bad about Windows could help him selling Android... And maybe that's happening. That's makes People think Android instead of Windows.
Samsung actually does nothing for Windows (8 and Phone) to sell better, so what are they're complaining about ?

Because Samsung makes crappy hardware maybe? I'm the only one I know who's ever bought a samsung computer. It was a netbook from a few years ago. I won't buy another one. I think they're just pushing what's working for them.

Who cares what Samsung does with W8 So what, they are not making more than one WP8 phone at the moment and if they lose out, who will suffer? Acer said trash as well but they are releasing W8 devices.

Again, who cares. If W8 starts to make it big, then Samsung will be left behind.

One more thing

On an Android tablet I get tons of apps that I do not get anywhere else, most of them are Google Apps; Microsoft bullied the Android community and asked for money for every Android device sold, it was one of the most stupid thing a company can do, period.

Google has products that no one else has, and they are not building apps for Windows as a result, good job Microsoft, now even if I had to get a Windows tablet, I will not be able to use the Android Maps, the Android Gallery, and Google Plus and other services, I have to use third party apps.

Ruining a business is not like talking to another person Mr. Ballmer, running a business is diplomacy, and Ballmer is clueless there.

john.smith_2084 said,
One more thing

Actually you said several things.

On an Android tablet I get tons of apps that I do not get anywhere else, most of them are Google Apps; Microsoft bullied the Android community and asked for money for every Android device sold, it was one of the most stupid thing a company can do, period.

Android is using Microsoft technology. Microsoft deserves to be paid for it.

Google has products that no one else has, and they are not building apps for Windows as a result, good job Microsoft, now even if I had to get a Windows tablet, I will not be able to use the Android Maps, the Android Gallery, and Google Plus and other services, I have to use third party apps.

There is nothing stopping Google from creating an app to do these things on a Windows device. It's really more a problem on their side. If they feel the market share is too small to support development, then that's their choice to make.

Ruining a business is not like talking to another person Mr. Ballmer, running a business is diplomacy, and Ballmer is clueless there.

Actually if you're talking diplomacy, MS makes some of their software available on Android and iOS, while Google isn't really doing much to support Windows. If your "diplomacy" theory is correct, Google wouldn't be providing Google Maps for iOS after all the history between Apple and Google.

Enron said,

Android is using Microsoft technology. Microsoft deserves to be paid for it.

So Android is running .net and c# code now?

Enron said,

There is nothing stopping Google from creating an app to do these things on a Windows device.

Maybe they will when M$ releases office for Android.

Enron said,

Google wouldn't be providing Google Maps for iOS after all the history between Apple and Google.

Google is still the default search engine in iOS

recursive said,

So Android is running .net and c# code now?


Maybe they will when M$ releases office for Android.


Google is still the default search engine in iOS

Are you guys for real. If Microsoft doesn't deserve the license payment, then OEM's will fight tooth and nail against the payment. But you see that every major Android OEM except Motorola paying Microsoft. Don't you think even one of them would have taken it to court. And it is not a cheap payment either (around $10 / device).

And providing Google services on Windows is not the responsibility of Microsoft.

@john
Android maps - There is no such thing as Android maps

@Max
I guess I meant to say run on

@Kishore
do you have any idea how much it costs to get into a legal battle over some ****ty patent with another company? Or do you know how many companies M$ has effectively run into the ground through BS litigation?

Have you heard of the mafia? Do you know why people used to pay them for 'protection'? You could have the same argument and say why don't they stand up and fight if they know it isn't right, but they valued their life a little more than that, and I guess these companies, including minor app developers value their company more than risking it over a silly patent battle with MS, its proxies and their bull**** patents.

such a stupid pointless comment you make about a company getting money for stuff that they put there own sweat and blood into making, for some crap company like google to come along and steal.

Wow the amount of denial in here is astounding.

The hardcore MS zealots refuse to acknowledge that there maybe a problem with Windows 8. And as I have said many time, anything negative towards MS and the fanboys get their panties in a bunch and go on the offensive.

and lol @ the guy who said minority don't like win 8.

yeh right so the CEOS of Samsung and Acer which are amongst the biggest companies in the world are a "minority", instead we should listen to the fanboys on neowin

You are totally right man. I have always loved Windows and have converted many from Apple to Windows 7, but how can I actually do that to my friends now. I would feel like i am living in some delusional fantasy making me just as bad as Apple zealots.

Yes they are certain issues wth Windows 8 for some users ( probably a small % overall), MS will be releasing an update later in the summer to refine Windows 8 further to iron out some of the issues ( the small issue that will not be fixed is the start button, that will not be coming back folk), they will be however refining the transition between desktop and modern more, which will make more folk happy, the built in apps that people complain about will also be getting updates fairly soon to address a lot of issues people seem to have. I would say this time next year you will not be seeing to many complaints about windows 8.

No it is not us! it is you Microsoft!

For a year I thought that I am out of touch with reality, and that everyone wanted Windows 8, but it looks like Microsoft is the one out of touch with just everything.

We are the ninety nine present, did you hear that Microsoft, and we want the things we love in Windows back, or keep using it yourself, with 2% of the Windows users, good luck with that!

Note: ironically, I wrote that on Windows 8 :-)

2 percent of Windows users in a few months. Considering the Windows base out there already having 2 percent of the market is actually pretty good.

TechJunkie81 said,
2 percent of Windows users in a few months. Considering the Windows base out there already having 2 percent of the market is actually pretty good.

we all know it is not 4 month it is a year, yes, 2% after a year, wow :-)

it looks like by the end of 2013 it will be 3.5%, if lucky 4%, such a huge success.

I'm starting wonder if MS is letting the bridges burn on purpose... Instead of 'directly' stepping on toes... let the OEM's be the one to complain and drop out of making Windows 8 devices... Buy Nokia and go the full Apple approach ...hardware....software...and then full integrated ecosystem...

I don't think it was planned at first... lets call it a 'welcomed accident' they stumbled upon... W8 performance (cold boot to working time, the way system resources are allocated, etc) to me is better than W7 (and im super biased toward W7)...and go to W7 more than I go to W8 at home... but even i can admit it...

I think you will see on the WP sde of things Nokia, HTC and Surface. On the Tablet side of things will also be these 3 companies. PC will only have a select few that actually make profit and don't whine all the time from the PC market. Microsoft need to cut of these low class crappy products from having windows installed.

I guess overcharging for a plastic POS that has a disconnecting keyboard as a feature wasn't the best strategy then...

Sonne said,
Acer, Samsung, LG etc...The writing is on the wall and if you can't see it you are in denial

Acer recently overtook Dell to become the 3rd biggest PC OEM and Samsung and LG are increasing their share in the smartphone market...

SidVicious said,
With those prices, what do they expect?

Indeed. The Ativ is 200 euro more expensive than a Surface. Plus Samsung is known for having low build quality. Why would you buy an Ativ...

and the new figures on the Surface suggest that it has only sold 1.5 million units. Come on everyone, this protection of what is worse than Vista is getting boring. Windows 8 is just horrible.

Iridium said,
and the new figures on the Surface suggest that it has only sold 1.5 million units. Come on everyone, this protection of what is worse than Vista is getting boring. Windows 8 is just horrible.

Windows XP had bad adoption rates as well. People are very afraid of change, this is nothing new.

LegendaryRamzi said,
People are very afraid of change, this is nothing new.

It must be really frustrating for Microsoft to have to deal with such imperfect users that never quite work the way Microsoft wants them to .

Iridium said,
and the new figures on the Surface suggest that it has only sold 1.5 million units. Come on everyone, this protection of what is worse than Vista is getting boring. Windows 8 is just horrible.

Only 1.5 million in 5 months, you do realize when you add up those numbers that's close to $900 million dollars right? Income is going to be near $300 million off the revenue, that's less than half a year for TWO pieces of hardware. Yeah they are doing reallll bad /s that within a year they will be making 500 million in profit off two devices.

The title is a bit miss leading. I thought he was referring to ALL windows 8 machines, not just tablets and smart phones.

Samsung are hypocrites, first they make fun of of the iPhone 4s for not making it look any different and now they have pretty much done the same with the S4. Then they go and complain about Windows and Microsoft and at the same time have a love hate relationship with Google. I don't think they have any friends in the hardware or software industry...

ingramator said,
I don't think they have any friends in the hardware or software industry...

Samsung are quite big. Ok, very big. They can make pretty much all their own phones in house, and they don't have to rely upon the other big names in consumer goods like Apple and the like have to do.

As for the software side of things, there is nothing stopping Samsung forking android and taking it in its own direction now and by pass Google. Samsung has enough of a user base that they (the users) would support Samsung if they could market the idea to them as a good thing.

But even the biggest of giants can fall, as does happen in the IT market, and it can happen really fast too.

sagum said,

As for the software side of things, there is nothing stopping Samsung forking android and taking it in its own direction now and by pass Google. Samsung has enough of a user base that they (the users) would support Samsung if they could market the idea to them as a good thing.

Exactly right. They are already doing it with Tizen.
http://www.neowin.net/news/sam...ear-threat-to-windows-phone

They are big enough to keep all production in house, and tell everyone to bugger off

Or maybe not, could it be that people really don't want W8 after all the bad press it's getting? No that can't be it, must be they make junk even though they are one of the most popular electronics manufacturer in the world......but no, they make junk right?

Jimmy422 said,
Or maybe it's because Samsung's Windows 8 tablets are junk?

I suppose their phones are junk too - that's what makes them the most popular in the world?

Who'd have thought Windows 8 might be the reason their's and everyone elses computers are not selling.

Not Microsoft apparently, its all the manufacturers fault for making inferior products, oh, opps, their surface is doing the bombing too.

Love all the Microsoft shills that want to blame everyone else but the failed Metro O/S. Yes, Metro O/S. Samsung went into it hoping to sell products. If it was all a longterm plan to bash/trash Windows 8 like the windrones and tinfoil hatters believe, they certainly didnt have to burn through tens of millions of dollars trying to produce salable hardware to do it.

The punditry "I guess Samsungs priorities are with Google and Android" are laughable. Expecting them to do all the heavy lifting trying to sell people on Windows 8 and Metro is like expecting them to giftwrap a turd. This is MIcrosoft's failure, not Samsung's. Sorry if the truth hurts.

Edited by Darrah Ford, Mar 15 2013, 12:58pm :

Jimmy422 said,
Or maybe it's because Samsung's Windows 8 tablets are junk?

Considering Microsoft sold only 1,5 million Surfaces (including Pros) does the same thing apply to them?

Jimmy422 said,
Or maybe it's because Samsung's Windows 8 tablets are junk?
Did you even see the live reviews at CES? They all said out of the many devices they tried running Windows 8, the Samsung ATIV series was by far the BEST...BEST in DESIGN...BEST in STYLE.

The problem is, Windows 8 Tablets arent selling that fast yet for OEM;s to really dig in...I think the numbers show that. Even Desktop sales are falling fast. Acer claim wa salso true, but they do make cheap junk and they knew they couldnt even beat the Surface Pro. But Samsung can and they are saying Windows 8 just doesnt have the numbers in sales and it is fact. Android will sell more tablets this month than Windows 8 will sell all year. JUst look at the numbers bro.

Android is expected to sell 190M tablets with xhipments at 350M. That means more than 1/2 will sell. Yet only 400,000 Windows 8 tablets sold last month or something. Samsung is right...just deal with it.

Being popular does not necessary make your product be a quality built product. You can have the crappiest cheapest device and it still can be popular, just look at the galaxy series of phones. I have a Samsung ativ phone and also a Samsung ativ smart pc pro, both products have problems with build quality. The only oems that are complaining are the ones that make cheap crap and cant compete against a better product made by another oem. Microsoft should just tell these guys to **** off and just focus with Nokia and HTC. Surface products should expand to different form facter tablets and surface should also be a laptop. These OEM's that have been complaining have been making crap for years and continue to make crap. Microsoft did not **** up with vista, the oems did. Samsung ****ed the original wp7 updates because they did not inform ms that they replaced components in the focus, which ****ed the os update for many people.

First there were all the beta testers, and techs, then there was Acer, now Samsung.
How long before Microsoft listens?
Windows 8 is useless and no one wants it.


dvb2000 said,
First there were all the beta testers, and techs, then there was Acer, now Samsung.
How long before Microsoft listens?
Windows 8 is useless and no one wants it.



Replace "no one" with "only the minority" and you are getting closer to reality.

Dushmany said,
...........................................................
Not touching this one.

Lol let's see the 3rd biggest WP manufacturer saying that its no one wants to buy Windows Phones.... Of course Nokia is going to say WP is an amazing OS with tons of demand because that's their whole company's future right now so they are pretty biased in everything they say about it. WP is essentially also Nokia's OS now.

dvb2000 said,
First there were all the beta testers, and techs, then there was Acer, now Samsung.
How long before Microsoft listens?
Windows 8 is useless and no one wants it.

The ones nobody listens too are always the loudest.

dvb2000 said,
First there were all the beta testers, and techs, then there was Acer, now Samsung.
How long before Microsoft listens?
Windows 8 is useless and no one wants it.