Some Xbox One demos at E3 2013 ran on Windows 7 NVIDIA PCs

AMD is the co-designer of Microsoft's system-on-a-chip hardware inside the Xbox One console. However, when it came to showing off upcoming Xbox One games at E3 2013, it looks like Microsoft had PCs running those demos with hardware provided by another company.

The first word of this came from long time game journalist Julian Rignall, who posted word on Twitter on something that happened when he played an Xbox One game at E3 this week.

While it's not a surprise to learn that the Xbox One game demos at E3 ran on PCs, an image posted on the NeoGAF message boards seems to show that those rigs had graphics cards made by AMD's biggest GPU rival, NVIDIA.

We do have to wonder why Microsoft decided to pick NVIDIA cards for its Xbox One E3 PC demo rigs, rather than AMD's Radeon graphics cards. Also, Microsoft used the older Windows 7 OS, rather than the current Windows 8, which is supposed to offer better performance even with older PCs.

Source: Julian Rignall on Twitter via Softpedia | Image via NeoGAF

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Does anyone else think they ran it on PCs because there could have been no Internet connections at E3? I mean, the Xbox One, being an always online console, couldn't play the game(s) if it wasn't connected.

Also would it make sense that another reason is because the cloud isn't fully set up and ready to use yet?

http://www.escapistmagazine.co...-May-Have-Been-On-Windows-7

Update: Several Xbox One developers have come out and confirmed that their titles were most assuredly running on actual Xbox One dev kits. Apparently, only a single title: Lococycle, was running on a PC because it had not been ported to Xbox One yet, and the decision was made by the dev team, not Microsoft.
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http://www.eurogamer.net/artic...ndry-hands-on-with-xbox-one

Forza Motorsport 5: Forza Motorsport 5 the most high profile title we saw that was visibly operating on the actual unit.

Ryse: Son of Rome: Yes, there's no doubt about it - this is definitely running on "real deal" Xbox One hardware.

Killer Instinct: The Xbox One hardware is visibly active, almost certainly pushing out 1080p at 60 frames per second. There is no tearing, and the only dips in response come from changing to each character's more effects-heavy ultra mode.

ivSuffocate said,
Does anyone else think they ran it on PCs because there could have been no Internet connections at E3? I mean, the Xbox One, being an always online console, couldn't play the game(s) if it wasn't connected.

Also would it make sense that another reason is because the cloud isn't fully set up and ready to use yet?

Except it's not an always on console, a daily check is not always on

OMFG! How is this even news? EVERY video game tech demo in histroy was ran on a PC with smiliar or Equal specs to the final console. However considiering that MS had the Xbox One console on display it is a little odd that they didn't use an Xbox one to display the tech demos.

Do people think they develop software on the end user game console? The console hardware is probably not even finalized and certainly wasn't available to software development when all this stuff was written. If you're going to demo alpha software, you're going to want to use the hardware and software your developers have been working on for years.

Why not have the games run on the hardware they are trying to sell ? Sounds shady to me . Makes me think the games will not look or perform the same as what we watched. I don't understand why they did that.

Apparently you have never been to E3 before. They are not trying to hide anything, the code is just working on that machine.

You have to understand E3 is a hard process. Many are still coding and fixing bugs and trying to get real work done, so they have to stop and do a quick demo to show at E3. It's not a conspiracy, it's that E3 happens in the middle of the year and many of the releases won't hit until Christmas or the first part of the following year.

I have always been a proponent that E3 should be towards early November (right before Christmas) to get people excited about the titles coming for Christmas. When E3 happens in May as before or June now it's an awkward time of year.

Hardly a surprise, this is standard practise. However, was suprised me was it had an Nvidia card in it as I would've thought it would of had a comparable AMD one? wounder if it had an Intel processor too? ultimately it doesn't really matter as the general public was never suppose to know about this. However, their choices of parts (however logical to them at the time) don't send a very positive message to the public now they they know...

The first alpha Dev kits are supposed to have Intel processors and an Nvidia card. So this is probably why. As I said the first 360's were running at E3 on Macintosh computers and as you said this is standard practice in the industry.

Hey guys. I have been to 3 E3 shows when I lived in Los Angeles and all of the console launches were this way. The Xbox 360 demos at the first E3 were on Apple Macintosh computers.

Basically, E3 is a hard show to put demos on because a lot of the demos are faked for everyone or never will be in the game or running on hardware that isn't close to final. This happens all all console launches.

The only reason why people think it matters now is because Microsoft is getting dumped on right now with people thinking the sky is falling. A year from launch nobody is going to care and its back to business.

I loved E3 back in the day, but it's much smaller now. Back in the day, the entire Convention Center was used including Kenya Hall, now that hall is just a parking lot. Oh well, that was the best times. E3 back then was crazy, it was like Vegas but in a Convention Center in LA. Lights and noise and all of your senses were going crazy and my feet at the end were so tired. I slept good after E3, let me tell you. Good times.

this is what we know. windows kernel, xbox OS,and hyper V. we know that hyperV runs on windows. So Windows -> HyperV -> Xbox OS.

These windows 7 PCs run hyperV which loads the xbox dev OS which loads the game. And the virtual machine can use the host GPU with RemoteFX. But since the GPU is running in the virtual machine,there is performance penalties and issues. The performance hit probably brings the performance to par with the xbox one gpu,or lower.

there were also windows laptops running the games perfectly fine. So its impossible for these laptops to have been running a titan.

vcfan said,
this is what we know. windows kernel, xbox OS,and hyper V

Is this confirmed? To me, it seems like a pretty bad design decision (mainly because of performance...), or a misunderstanding. Wouldn't it be easier to provide only some new libraries and APIs for windows 8 than trying to seamlessly integrate it with another OS?

dancsi said,

Is this confirmed? To me, it seems like a pretty bad design decision (mainly because of performance...), or a misunderstanding. Wouldn't it be easier to provide only some new libraries and APIs for windows 8 than trying to seamlessly integrate it with another OS?

yes its confirmed that its windows,xbox OS,and virtualization that bridges the two,,but the virtualization isn't the regular hyperV like the one on regular windows. its probably the same core,but of course its customized and tailored for the xbox,so I doubt there are performance issues.

So? Xbox One's system software is partial Windows? Logical? Beside, isn't that just the debug PC? It's connected to another box, that might be the dev kit.

This matters why?

This actually showcases the agnostic nature of the OS, DirectX, and the performance of the development tookit Microsoft has continued to foster.

This is a demonstration that the we have crossed the apex of software complexity that the inherent model of *nix along with other faux 'open' technologies no longer support a wider scale of hardware exposing the optimal potential performance.

If Sony was running PS4 games on significantly different hardware, then this story would be news.

This is also not new for Microsoft, from the original Xbox to even the Xbox 360, the development kits ran on significantly DIFFERENT hardware. This is especially true of the Xbox 360 that was running on a combined mode dual G5s Macs and more importantly was still using the previous generation GPU architecture that was based on DX9 technologies. Yet the shipping GPU hardware in the Xbox 360 was the first unified shader architecture with the new DMA/BUS technologies which is a generation ahead of the dual shader GPUs used in development and demonstrations in 2005.

People that have concerns that the Xbox One might not have the GPU muscle to keep up with the PS4 are failing to understand vast difference in the OS, frameworks, and performance that Microsoft is able to get out of their development tools. (The GPU in the Xbox One is also developed by Microsoft Engineers like the Xbox 360, and again will have a new generation of technologies that the PS4 and shipping AMD GPUs do not possess.)

Na it's not easy when you factor in all the legal mombo jumbo crap and poor excuses of how hard it would be to port even though there is already a working port, then after all that is sorted add a few months and just before the next game in that series is being released for the console only then will you see the pc version of the older current game. (while all the hype is up) and ofc this will be at full price maybe even more than the console copy.

Thats just how it works.

Meph said,
That's quite cool actually. It shows how easy it'll be to port games between PCs and the Xbox One.
My thoughts exactly.

Meph said,
That's quite cool actually. It shows how easy it'll be to port games between PCs and the Xbox One.

It's easy to port games between PCs and PCs with a different operating system that uses an underlying windows kernel, it was already easy when it was the Xbox 360.

It was the dev of the game that decided to run it on Windows 7 though apparently, because apparently they hadn't got enough time with the xbox one devkit to make a viable xbox one build yet.

Some large amount of guess work in that NeoGAF thread, based in the cooler. Anyone think it could just be a custom chip made by amd for this usage?

-T- said,
Some large amount of guess work in that NeoGAF thread, based in the cooler. Anyone think it could just be a custom chip made by amd for this usage?

The motherboard is using an X79 chipset, so nope.

-T- said,

How does that affect a gpu?

The GPU is an EVGA Geforce GTX 680 unless you think they made an AMD chip and disguised it as a 680.

I thought there was a report button or something for typoes.
anywho

However, what's more interesting is that those PCs had graphics cards that were made by AMD's biggest rival, Intel.

Shouldn't that be Nvidia?

Shadowzz said,
I thought there was a report button or something for typoes.
anywho


Shouldn't that be Nvidia?

That might be half accurate, maybe he did mean to say Intel, but that its an Intel CPU, not AMD? (not its 'not an AMD GFX, but intel')

And yeh, there used to be a report button...they probably removed it, getting too many reports

theslam08 said,
And yeh, there used to be a report button...they probably removed it, getting too many reports
I reported it some time ago. Maybe he's rewriting the article.

Shadowzz said,
Nothing new with this. Didn't they demo the original xbox on a mac?

Yep, that was the only thing around that wasn't in a server rack mount case on Power PC arch.

Mr_Self_Destruct said,
Just lately Microsoft seem to stumble from one PR disaster to the next, starting to feel sorry for them

How is showing a game that can run cross-platform on a DirectX system a negative thing?

xendrome said,

How is showing a game that can run cross-platform on a DirectX system a negative thing?


Because they'll still never release half the games for windows

Mr_Self_Destruct said,
Just lately Microsoft seem to stumble from one PR disaster to the next, starting to feel sorry for them

Not a PR disaster at all. It's a lack of understanding the industry, development kits, and E3. Once you understand that, then it's really just an industry practice that happens at Every new launch of consoles.

Correct real PS4 dev kits, which are running on PC hardware.

Sony is doing a great job on marketing MS blunders .

Whats different the software SDK and CORE OS? LMAO

x86 board = check
x86 cpu = check (with 64 bit ext)
northbridge = check
south bridge = check
ddr3 = check on one console (other console uses GDDR5, nice but has higher latency)


The only thing that separates these consoles from each other and the PC is the social features (overlay) when you hit the logo on the controller.

Xenon said,
Wonder why they used 7 instead of 8.

Just because someone works at Microsoft doesn't mean they have to like Microsoft's design decisions. The people creating the dev kits probably hate Metro also.

Chugworth said,

Just because someone works at Microsoft doesn't mean they have to like Microsoft's design decisions. The people creating the dev kits probably hate Metro also.

yap, because they actually work, so they pick a better system

Most likely because they were using NVIDIA cards. NVIDIA's Windows 8 drivers are complete crap and have a tendency to crash. I can tell you from first-hand experience.

And... good news to PC owners!

This means that PC ports won't be as crap/rushed as they are today, and that we will start seeing some serious improvements on the fidelity and stability departments!

Reality is, no one needs to go out and buy an xbox one, they can just keep using their windows 7 PC.

Of course Microsoft will no doubt lock the games to their new hardware platform when they are released.

I'm more interested in the modding scene, what does this mean for emulation? It's definitely not set in stone yet (since the game could be a modified developer copy) but if the XB1 games can be run on a "standard" desktop then that opens up big doors, not only for bringing XB content to the desktop, but desktop content to the xbox.