Sorry, Windows Blue won't bring back the Start button

If you have been hoping, dreaming, wishing, that Windows Blue - which is set to (unofficially) arrive in the Summer of 2013 - would bring back the Start button, you may want to take a seat. According to a new report from CNbeta, who has leaked quite a bit of Windows 8 information previously, they are stating that Windows Blue will not bring the Start button back to Windows 8.

This should not come as a surprise as Microsoft would have a massive egg on it's face if it did cave to users requests to return the iconic button. But beyond not brining back the Start button, the source is also saying that Microsoft will continue to make tweaks to the desktop and that there will be updates to the taskbar too. What these tweaks are or will include were not stated. In addition to tweaks, the entire UI will appear flattened (think metro), the kernel will get updated to 6.3 (which we had previously heard) and will be provided free or at a very affordable price.

With flatter look being applied to more parts of the UI, all aspects of Aero will be killed off completely with Windows Blue, according to the source.

While we wait for more details to leak out about what Microsoft has up its sleeve for Windows Blue, we have been hearing whispers that it will not be called Windows 9, as some reports have previously suggested and will likely retain the Windows 8 moniker.

With a Summer launch expected, we should hear from Microsoft, relatively soon about the plans it has for Windows Blue and how Redmond will transition to annual updates for one of its largest revenue generating entities. 

Source: CNbeta

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I don't have a problem with no start button or the start screen either. My issue is when u are in desktop mode and launching say a music file it launches metro music. O don't like the bouce from desktop mode to metro natively.

if I'm working in desktop mode (in a non RT version of 8) desktop apps should nativley open a desktop app to run.

at least when I installed adobe reader it asked me which program should run when I opened my next PDF.

Sorry Microsoft Shares, the 30$ share or the even 20$ a share is not coming back
It is extremely simple, if you insist to produce a product that takes away what the majority of your customer's love, then regardless of how much performance you add to that product, many of them will not buy it.

Many of them will not buy it = less to no profit
Less or no profit = no money for salaries
No money for salary = jobless and not working on Windows Next

There was the prehistoric single app full screen UI (DOS)
There was the prehistoric single app full screen UI with multi tasking using the keyboard and a third party app (DOS + background app)
Then came Windows and other multi tasking multi apps OS
Then came the modern prehistoric single app basic colors full screen apps again

Good job Mrs. Green, I hope you stop taking your meds for 2 days so you can see how the real Microsoft Boxes, sorry Windows 8 looks like.

Stupidity has levels, but Windows 8 is just beyond any levels there are.

I believe they should have made windows 8 touch and touch rt and then just a regular windows 8. The touch and touch rt should me the metro and the regular windows 8 should be the normal interface we are used to. All in ones and tablets are awesome with touch interface and metro would be great for that... but laptops and regular desktops/gaming machines need an option for the nontouch screen. Sometimes u just don't want a touch screen!

The Start Button is the Past, I fail to see why the Windows' Users fail to embrace the New Generation of Windows.
The Start Screen is not Only designed for a Touch Screen, but it is even more useful with the power of using the Mouse.
Move your mouse to the "Top Right and go down along the Side" and you find yourself a shortcut to multiple Options: Options of the start Screen (Option or Settings when using in App), Windows Settings, (in Desktop mod you find Options of the old traditional Windows such as PC INFO), even Power Options (shut down, restart, etc)
Move your mouse to the "Top Left and go down along the Side" You can choose which Tabs to enter or to kill by closing them.
Move your Mouse to the "bottom Left" And Right Click, You'll get multiple Options aswell, including control Panel, Command Prompt, etc..

The Features of Windows 8 is all impressive, very productive and useful and a click away in many fields.

Windows 8 is becoming Special by having the ability to use Apps and Legacy Applications.

I use a one year old Laptop, upgraded to Windows 8, and can not even bother saying I regret it, it is way more stable, great Performance, and superb Interface.

Feel freely to debate,

yours truely
Jean-Pierre

Move your mouse three times clockwise and two times the other way, jump two times in front of your PC, and the say “wah wah” and your computer will make coffee or tea.
Why just not make it more obvious and put it on that large screen.

Removed Windows 8 and upgraded to Windows 7

What is it with this _fetish_ for the start button? I just do not get it.

Windows 8 runs so much better on any hardware W7 runs on plus it runs really well on older hardware. My Asus eeepc 1001PX is a piece of sluggish junk on W7 but runs remarkably smooth now I installed W8 on it. Sure I need to patch the resolution to use the start screen apps, but the desktop is _WAY_ more solid and responsive then it was on W7. And my main Desktop PC is a joy to use, goes to sleep in under 10 seconds when I am done and back up in maybe 3-5 seconds.

And anything you can do with your start button I can do faster and more efficient with a single button press to START (pun intended here). The start screen is easier to manage, has much better customisation options and can hold much more information to be readily available then the start menu ever could.

Honestly, I just do not get the hate. But I must assume it's based on hearsay and stubborn behaviour more then it is on experience and actual first hand use.

People are ****ing mental, basically.

I've heard every single excuse under the sun with regards to Metro whining; "users won't know how to open programs", "nobody uses the Windows Key on their keyboard", "people can't work out how to open the charms bar", "I can't shut Windows 8 down!".

Even after you sit down with them and point out just how retarded they're being, they still don't get it. Personally I blame the entire fiasco on what I call the "Mouse Generation"; people who learnt to use computers with Windows XP, and seem to have been taught by their schools/parents that the keyboard is just for typing words in.

You know the sort, the 2-finger pecking type who also take about a minute to decide whether or not they should click on something or not. The fact is, when I designed Metro, I aimed it primarily at keyboard users; the touch support came out as a happy side-effect of the chromeless approach. Less chrome meant more space for content, which meant that content could be spread out across the entire screen, which meant larger surfaces for interaction.

And yet, you'll find that with most Metro apps, you can navigate them quicker using the keyboard (tab + arrow keys) than you can with a mouse, and theoretically even quicker than you can with a touchscreen.

Personally I've always found mouse interaction slow and cumbersome; unfortunately, being a graphic designer who can't draw by hand for ****, a mouse is a necessary evil in my line of work. Still, when I'm NOT doing design work, or gaming, I use the keyboard for pretty much everything. If I have to move something (a window, for example - although that'll all be over come Windows 9 ) I either use a 5" trackpad (for interacting with stuff on my secondary screens), or my touchscreen monitor.

mdcdesign said,
The fact is, when I designed Metro, I aimed it primarily at keyboard users; the touch support came out as a happy side-effect of the chromeless approach.

I use the keyboard for pretty much everything.

If I have to move something (a window, for example - although that'll all be over come Windows 9 ) I either use a 5" trackpad (for interacting with stuff on my secondary screens), or my touchscreen monitor.


Now, surely you forgot about "Alt+Space" "m" to move the window using keyboard?

The "Alt+Space" existed since windows 95 dude... (deprecated for Tiled or Single-Full-Screen metro apps)

And speaking of metro, metro look/feel alike that existed before 2010:
Observed Key-feature:
* Tiled multi tasking "apps", like metro
* Horisontally scrolled tiles, like metro
* Can only choose ONE/SINGLE tile to be immersive with, like metro
* Return from single immersive mode to tiled list mode, like metro
* Actively updated tiles, somehow like Metro's Live Tiles want to be

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgZx7JA8DZE
went i saw the video, i almost want to say that it copied metro interface until I see the uploaded date.
Its even earlier than 'early 2010' windows 8 mockups that published by Microsoft few month ago.

I knew some suspected that, metro design team saw the video then use it as 'inspiration'.

Edited by Torolol, Dec 29 2012, 8:45am :

mdcdesign said,
...The fact is, when I designed Metro, I aimed it primarily at keyboard users; the touch support came out as a happy side-effect of the chromeless approach. Less chrome meant more space for content, which meant that content could be spread out across the entire screen, which meant larger surfaces for interaction.
...
Personally I've always found mouse interaction slow and cumbersome; unfortunately, being a graphic designer who can't draw by hand for ****, a mouse is a necessary evil in my line of work. Still, when I'm NOT doing design work, or gaming, I use the keyboard for pretty much everything. If I have to move something (a window, for example - although that'll all be over come Windows 9 ) I either use a 5" trackpad (for interacting with stuff on my secondary screens), or my touchscreen monitor.

Thank you for explaining the Metro design process. Basically, it focused on how YOU like to use the computer because YOU think that is how everybody else should do. And so any customer feedback that was not consistent with YOUR model could be ignored, because the maxim "the customer is always right" only applies if the customer agrees with YOU. Otherwise, the customer is wrong.
Are you on the Blue team? If so, then please stop and listen. It is not "retarded" not to wish to have to memorise a list of obscure keyboard commands. It is arrogant and out of touch to describe your loyal customer base like that.
According to your explanation, you focused on touch and on keyboard. So mouse users got overlooked. That would explain why there are so many very disappointed users venting here. Their views are legitimate. Please do not waste an opportunity to address them.

Edited by gb8080, Dec 29 2012, 10:12am :

Just to clarify something to both the above posters, Windows 8 wasn't in development since 2010, it was in development since 2001.

As more and more graphics manufacturers (albeit just nVidia and ATI now as the others have pretty much disappeared) started offering hardware support for DX extensions, the idea was to go across to a composited UI; remember all of the "the UI will be 3D and completely different than Windows XP" rumours that sprang up during the Longhorn development stage? That was essentially the corruption and concatenation of two separate points: 1) composited UI, and 2) radically new interface.

Everyone assumed that the UI ITSELF would be 3D, rather than just making use of D3D surfaces for 2D composition. The "new UI" concepts ranged from things like the replacement of the Taskbar with a "Task Shelf", offering task-based interaction with the PC rather than application-based interaction. This was abandoned due to the perceived difficulty in getting application developers on-side; additionally, people wanted choice, and having a single application to do each task just seemed unfair with regards to personalization.

That later evolved into Sideshow (for push notifications) and Groupbar/Layoutbar for window management, but feedback metrics demonstrated that people - on the whole - weren't actually making use of the window management features in Windows anyway. The majority of applications were getting maximized, and the ones that weren't were the ones that COULDN'T be maximized due to the developers' choices when building them.

Feedback - through the CEIP - proved that the public wanted stuff maximized, so Metro was designed to facilitate this. The 70/30 split for pined apps was down - in no small part - to the rise of 16:9/10 displays over 4:3 ones, and the desire to aid people in using their desktop machines for live communication with other users. Essentially, the 70/30 thing is pretty much designed to have the Messaging app pinned to the right, and a browser pinned to the left. Obviously, you can do the same thing with other apps, but that was the most likely usage scenario.

To obtain other information, through live tiles, all a user has to do is hit the Windows key on their keyboard, take a look at the updates, then hit it again to go back to whatever it was they were doing. Sideshow and Vista/7's "gadgets" were integrated into an at-a-glance screen that didn't NEED to be visible all the time; the actual layout for the start screen UI really came out of that. People have moaned about the fact that the tiles are too big, information density is too low, etc, but in reality, most people will only be looking at it for a few seconds, so the density was a CRITICAL choice, and one I think the QA guys made the right call on.

According to CNET, downgrades back to Windows 7 are happening at the rate of several hundred per day. So much for Microsoft's spin about new PC sales counting as Windows 8 sales - the vast majority of mainstream computer users are steering well clear of Win 8.

Windows Nashville said,
According to CNET, downgrades back to Windows 7 are happening at the rate of several hundred per day. So much for Microsoft's spin about new PC sales counting as Windows 8 sales - the vast majority of mainstream computer users are steering well clear of Win 8.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Try actually addressing the points being raised rather than dismissing disagreement with insults. (And try reading some other tech sites in addition to Neowin while you're at it.)

Windows Nashville said,
According to CNET, downgrades back to Windows 7 are happening at the rate of several hundred per day.

Link?

Try actually addressing the points being raised rather than dismissing disagreement with insults.

Sure thing.

Downgrades at a rate of only several hundred per day when Microsoft is selling hundreds of thousands of licenses per day (at their last reported rate) is a mere rounding error. Fact is, according to statcounter, Windows 7 has been steadily losing market share since the day Windows 8 launched, Oct 26.

If the vast majority of mainstream computer users were steering clear of Windows 8 you wouldn't see Windows 8 marketshare increasing at a faster rate than Windows 7 marketshare was increasing before Oct 26 (again, according to Statcounter).

Since when is several hundred the vast majority? I am pretty sure that the numbers of W8 systems sold daily would make 'several hundred' a 1 digit ‰ number at best.

That and CNET is not unknown for their anti MSFT stance in he first place and they will bend anything they can into sounding like the worst thing ever here.

Sure W8 is different and sure it will take some getting used to for some, but it is far from worse then Vista which was not bad at all, it just suffered from a majority of lazy hardware manufacturers who did not do their jobs and get their driver models updated in time. MSFT did tell them, warn them and tell them again but hey simply waited until it was too late.

W8 is vastly better then W7 in every aspect, especially everyday use of the desktop which is a much more smooth and solid experience then with W7, and that is saying something.

In the real world, outside the restricted and relatively minute micro world we live in online, these things are much less of an issue. It would be good for many here to take of their 'techblog' shades and get out there in the sun for a while..

Edited by paulheu, Dec 29 2012, 2:34pm :

Good news. I prefer the startscreen over the startmenu, even on non-touch devices. The moment you opened the startmenu you were unable to use anything else on the desktop so what is the benefit of it only filling up one corner of the screen?

I do think Microsoft should make Windows 8 more adaptable to the screensize/resolution, as in unhidding the hidden UI elements for large monitors. But I do prefer the startmenu. You can also access the startscreen via the leftcorner so I really dont get all this b*tching about it. The button is now invisible and the menu is fullscreen but the functionality is stil there. Adding the button for the desktop mode would be a aesthetic change, nothing else.

Another reason not to downgrade from 7 to 8 he says FROM HIS DESKTOP Like most real computer users. Cant see the apps desktop being any good at work.

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