UPMC dumps the iPad for 2000 Surface Pro 3s

Microsoft’s Surface Pro 3 isn’t even on sale yet but a company in Pittsburgh is deploying 2000 of the devices to help physicians devote more time to patient care than paperwork.  This is obviously a win for Microsoft, but in a broader context, it is significant to see an organization willing to adopt new hardware from the company so early on in its lifecycle.

UPMC (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center) said that they were developing a new application for the iPad but discovered later that it would not work well in the enterprise setting.

We originally spent about a year trying to develop the application on the iPad. What we found was that it was not going to work in the enterprise setting. We weren’t able to achieve a lot of the functionality– such as interfacing with the legacy systems– that we could achieve with the Surface on Windows 8"

We fully expect Microsoft to announce more of this kind of ‘win’ for its new device, both before and after its launch. So far, Microsoft has shown off two medical groups that are going to use the Pro 3, but we hope to see other organizations and professions soon showcased in the same way, demonstrating the versatility of the Pro 3 in business beyond just the healthcare industry.

Regardless, this is some good PR for Microsoft as it shows the Pro 3 is enterprise-ready and that its hardware meets the high standards set by the medical community.

Source: Microsoft

Report a problem with article
Previous Story

Another update rolls out to Windows Phone 8.1 Preview for Developers

Next Story

Our Videogame History Museum gallery from E3 2014

115 Comments

Commenting is disabled on this article.

Difference between the Surface Pro 2 and 3 is that the media didn't slam them hard this time around. Or maybe Microsoft didn't give anyone grounds to do so.

Riva said,
Difference between the Surface Pro 2 and 3 is that the media didn't slam them hard this time around. Or maybe Microsoft didn't give anyone grounds to do so.

Didn't they? Somewhat unbiased and informative reviews are still very hard to find.

Missing the point...

There is a lot of posts here that are missing two critical areas that are important and which iOS cannot offer.

First, take the Stylus, it is far more accurate than just 'touch' and also offers additional features for dealing with imaging and handwriting and other interactions that 'touch' alone is not capable of handling.

Next take the API set differences between Windows and iOS. iOS has a very limited 'mobile' API set, that even when JUST COMPARED to WinRT falls shorts, let alone when it is compared to all the API sets available on Windows.

The iOS API set and framework are just not powerful enough to build a lot of complex software. This is why you don't see the 'full' version of Photoshop running on an iPad.
**And no this has nothing to do with the power of the hardware - as a low end Atom tablet running Windows 8.1 isn't much difference in performance to an iPad Air, yet it can and does run Photoshop and runs it rather well.

This is a pure limitation in the framework capabilities. It is 'possible' to get complex software to run on iOS, but only if you build it from the ground up and use OpenGL ES for the UI, and this gets complex really fast and wastes all the leverage that a mature platform API set offers. It also gets really slow at this point for complex software because of how inefficient iOS is at using OpenGL and the overall lack of efficiency in OpenGL on ARM.

Apple has given up being a platform for the enterprise and complex software and unless they revamp the iOS frameworks and APIs, it will never be able to compete with Win32 or even more sadly WinRT that is already ahead of iOS even though it is very young.


Backward/legacy compatibility wins the day. But beware of future because MS is throwing out backward compatibility faster than they used to.

UXGaurav said,
Backward/legacy compatibility wins the day. But beware of future because MS is throwing out backward compatibility faster than they used to.

true, but win32 outnumbers apple and android combined in app selection and LOB apps. therefore MSFT isn't going to dump their trump card which neither google nor apple can compete with.

UXGaurav said,
Backward/legacy compatibility wins the day. But beware of future because MS is throwing out backward compatibility faster than they used to.

Sure they are :rolleyes: That's why all my apps work just fine in Windows 8. The only ones that don't are 16-bit apps because I'm on a 64bit system.

Go back to using your stone age start menu because apparently in your world backward compatibility means "include every single option that ever existed since the dawn of time"

UXGaurav said,
But beware of future because MS is throwing out backward compatibility faster than they used to.

Which is a good thing. It helps keep the codebase clean, and the OS fast and streamlined.

-Razorfold said,

Go back to using your stone age start menu because apparently in your world backward compatibility means "include every single option that ever existed since the dawn of time"

Typical example of clueless person unable to understand that newer is not always better. Oh well with 3 out of their last 4 OSes having failed (only Windows 7 succeeded) but fanboys won't understand that. :rolleyes: Oh and that must be why Microsoft is bringing back the "stone age Start menu".

UXGaurav said,

Typical example of clueless person unable to understand that newer is not always better. Oh well with 3 out of their last 4 OSes having failed (only Windows 7 succeeded) but fanboys won't understand that. :rolleyes: Oh and that must be why Microsoft is bringing back the "stone age Start menu".


Um your maths skills are amazing. Last I checked windows XP and 7 both sold well and vista and 8 didn't sell well. So that's 2 out of 4.

And I distinctly remember you telling all of us what a failure windows 7 was going to be because it removed so many options that XP had.

And they're not bringing back the stone age start menu that you like, you know the one that looks like it came out of windows 95. They're bringing back a reimagined one.

Thank god you aren't responsible for any major project in this world otherwise we'll still be using horses to get us everywhere.

No I didn't say Windows 7 was going to be failure. I said Windows 7 WAS a failure. It still is a failure in my eyes - Vista somewhat fixed - okayish but not outstanding. It succeeded commercially because the industry has no choice but to move on. But look at the resistance to move on from XP. It "succeeded" due to marketing and because MS is a monopoly. 4 versions meaning Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1 - 3 of them failed, Ballmer, Sinofsky got fired/"retired". Stop living in a fantasy world and try to ask a non-fanboy what his general opinion of Microsoft OSes is lately. And actually I am responsible for a major project called Classic Shell and it's favorably reviewed everywhere - no controversies and no fights over it, no issue of forcing anyone to do anything. It has 15+ million downloads as well. Thank God you aren't responsible for any major project like Windows or Office or you will be treating EVERYONE of your customers with disrespect and forcing your choices and design decisions on them instead of treating them as intelligent people capable of making choices.

Edited by UXGaurav, Jun 13 2014, 2:40pm :

No I didn't say Windows 7 was going to be failure. I said Windows 7 WAS a failure. It still is a failure in my eyes

:rolleyes:

Stop living in a fantasy world and try to ask a non-fanboy what his general opinion of Microsoft OSes is lately.

The vast majority would say they love Windows 7, which according to you is a failure.

You stop living in a fantasy world.

4 versions meaning Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1 - 3 of them failed,

Wow we're now counting service packs too?

Great so then there was XP, XP SP1, XP SP2, XP SP3, Vista, Vista SP1, Vista SP2, 7, 7 SP1, 7 SP2, 8, and 8.1

So 7 successes and 5 failures, which isn't all that different you go all the way back in MS history. Most of them when they announce significant changes that OS tends to fail, the next OS brings a lot of refinements that people end up liking.

7 Couldn't have happened without Vista. XP couldn't have happened without ME and so on. It's nothing new.

And actually I am responsible for a major project called Classic Shell and it's favorably reviewed everywhere - no controversies and no fights over it, no issue of forcing anyone to do anything. It has 15+ million downloads as well.

Whoa 15 million downloads, and how many people still use it? Oh wait you don't have that information. Still 15 million is a respectable number but wait...how many people use Windows? I believe that's in the billions. So your software is still used by a tiny tiny tiny majority of the total number of windows users. 0.7% of the total number of Windows users use your software. And btw since when is it YOUR software? You didn't come up with the idea, or create it, or code most of it. Last I checked you were just a tester. So stop acting like you came up with the idea and you put in all the effort to code it. Ivo is the guy who does most of the work, not you.

And no controversy or fights lol sure. The amount of people on this forum alone who think you need to move on is telling enough.

Pretty surprising how most of the software from MS that you seem to hate, most people seem to like. Office? Most people love 2007, 2010 and 2013. You hate them. Windows? Most people love 7, you hate it. So yeah thank god you aren't responsible for anything worthwhile that the majority of people actually use.

Edited by -Razorfold, Jun 13 2014, 5:48pm :

Still not accepting reality? OMG it's beyond hope to jolt someone to reality. :p Windows 8.1 contains enough changes from Windows 8 for it to not be called a service pack. Most OSes from Microsoft after XP have been failures.

As for Classic Shell, I never said it was bigger than Windows or that I was the developer. What do you know what percentage of work I do in the project? :p You said I wasn't involved in any major project which I simply proved wrong. It seems to have made you look like a fool which is why you go on a rampage insulting my project. It doesn't have to be bigger than Windows, what matters is the satisfaction of the percentage of people who use it. :p Seriously, if you are so messed up as to tell others what to use and what not to, you are the one who needs to move on. They can make their own decisions.

Windows 8.1 contains enough changes from Windows 8 for it to not be called a service pack. Most OSes from Microsoft after XP have been failures.

Yup keep living in your fantasy world.

8.1 contains enough changes to not be considered a service pack in the traditional sense but it contains far far far less changes to be considered a whole new OS. There's a reason why it's called 8.1 and not Windows 9. If you're going to consider it as a new OS, then you might as well consider all the service packs too.

As for Classic Shell, I never said it was bigger than Windows or that I was the developer. What do you know what percentage of work I do in the project? You said I wasn't involved in any major project which I simply proved wrong. It seems to have made you look like a fool which is why you go on a rampage insulting my project.

Your project? Since when is it YOUR project? Oh wait, it isn't.

And yet again, classic shell isn't some sort of major project. You don't design anything or come up with any ideas, you just copy ideas that Microsoft had in the past and got rid of. Stop acting like you came up with this totally original idea because 1. You didn't. 2. You aren't responsible for classic shell.

It doesn't have to be bigger than Windows, what matters is the satisfaction of the percentage of people who use it.

So if 0.7% of people who use windows likes classic shell, it's a great success. But if the vast majority of people who use Windows 7 love it, then Windows is a failure. Yup your logic is ######ing brilliant.

Seriously, if you are so messed up as to tell others what to use and what not to, you are the one who needs to move on. They can make their own decisions.

Hmmm please point to where I told someone to use something? Oh wait I didn't. Did your fantasy land get mixed up with reality again? Seems to be a common ailment with you.

Okay now you are just being delusional. Now you are telling the people who are involved in the Classic Shell what they do and what they don't. That's a new kind of retardedness. LOOOL. I don't need the likes of you to "inform" me what I do and what I don't do. Seriously this is funny as hell. :p

UXGaurav said,
Okay now you are just being delusional. Now you are telling the people who are involved in the Classic Shell what they do and what they don't. That's a new kind of retardedness. LOOOL. I don't need the likes of you to "inform" me what I do and what I don't do. Seriously this is funny as hell. :p

Are you five years old? I wasn't telling you what to do and what not to do. I was telling you to stop acting like you're the only one responsible for classic shell. Because you aren't.

So yet again keep living in your fantasy land.

Again, twisting my words to say things I never said. I never said I was the only one responsible for Classic Shell. Oh never mind. You are outright evil and probably go around attacking anyone out of nowhere. :p That's all I've go to say.

UXGaurav said,
Again, twisting my words to say things I never said. I never said I was the only one responsible for Classic Shell. Oh never mind. You are outright evil and probably go around attacking anyone out of nowhere. :p That's all I've go to say.

Yup delusional and as usual, when you have absolutely nothing to contribute try to change the subject. If you are "so responsible" for classic shell why do you say that you only do the testing and some new feature ideas? Because honestly that makes it look like Ivo does most of the work and you just help him out. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it doesn't make you responsible for the project. At best you're a contributor.

UXGaurav said,
No I didn't say Windows 7 was going to be failure. I said Windows 7 WAS a failure.

Windows 7 is far from a failure.

UXGaurav said,
But look at the resistance to move on from XP.

China? Doesn't count.

UXGaurav said,
It "succeeded" due to marketing and because MS is a monopoly.

It has succeeded because it's a stable OS which introduced many productivity enhancements, and much needed security and stability to the Windows platform, compared with XP.

UXGaurav said,
Thank God you aren't responsible for any major project like Windows or Office or you will be treating EVERYONE of your customers with disrespect and forcing your choices and design decisions on them instead of treating them as intelligent people capable of making choices.

Say what you want, but Windows post XP has one of the most streamlined and easy to use UI's around. I for one, do not miss cluttered toolbars, and drop down file menus, nor do I miss wasting real estate to put all that junk on to. The Ribbon was much needed, and the minimalist UI in IE has made my workflow much easier and faster.

As long as the Start menu works for a fairly large amount of people, and yet you get so worked up and upset over it that you feel the need to start telling people to "go back to their stone age Start Menu", it's clear who here has got an attitude problem and lacks open mindedness. People will decide what to use on their own from the choices they've got - as simple as that.

UXGaurav said,
As long as the Start menu works for a fairly large amount of people, and yet you get so worked up and upset over it that you feel the need to start telling people to "go back to their stone age Start Menu", it's clear who here has got an attitude problem and lacks open mindedness. People will decide what to use on their own from the choices they've got - as simple as that.

It's not just the Menu. You seem to think that Windows needs a billion and one options for the UI, which would turn the OS into a convoluted mess. That's the last thing Windows needs anymore. Users need to be able to work without jumping through hoops to get things done, and WinXP was full of those. Office XP was even worse. Windows 7/Office 2010 + 2013 has eliminated those hoops so that users can work efficiently. As someone who supports both OS's (sigh) I can tell you first hand that Windows XP calls take twice as long as Windows 7 calls, simply because it lacks a streamlined workflow.

UXGaurav said,
As long as the Start menu works for a fairly large amount of people, and yet you get so worked up and upset over it that you feel the need to start telling people to "go back to their stone age Start Menu", it's clear who here has got an attitude problem and lacks open mindedness. People will decide what to use on their own from the choices they've got - as simple as that.

This coming from the guy who:

1. Calls people on this site NeoLosers.
2. Calls people who use new MS software, morons.
3. Thinks that everyone who uses the Ribbon or the Start Screen is a monkey that lacks brain cells.
4. Refers to Microsoft as Grandmasoft.
5. Calls everything from 2002 onwards a failure.
6. Refuses to use anything new even though countless people and studies have shown some of the new things (not all) actually have significant productivity improvements and are loved by tons of people.
7. Doesn't understand the difference between responsible, and contributes.
8. Doesn't understand the difference between backwards compatibility and legacy options.
9. Uses office XP because the help function of office 2003 onwards is too hard to understand.
10. Thinks the new task manager in 8 is crap even though it has the same features and more.
11. Calls people who use Windows 8 as low IQ and zero integrity.
And so on.

Yeah, I'm the one who calls people names, is evil, has an attitude problem and gets so worked up and upset that I feel the need to make a twitter post every 2 mins criticizing everyone who uses any new software after 2002 and everything about that new software.

Oh wait...

If you didn't understand my original post, it was a sarcastic comment based on your inability to differentiate between backwards compatibility and legacy options. MS isn't throwing out backwards compatibility, they're throwing out legacy options. Two completely different things.

I really couldn't care less if you choose to use the start menu or the start screen or use your eyes or w/e you want to do. I'm glad the start menu is coming back because I feel like it does somethings better than the start screen, especially if it looks like the way they demonstrated at build. But hey lets not let facts get in the way of your deluded reality.

the big flaw in apple's plan: they may have 1 million fart and flappy bird apps, but when it comes to enterprise software compatibility, they are in the stone age.

neonspark said,
the big flaw in apple's plan: they may have 1 million fart and flappy bird apps, but when it comes to enterprise software compatibility, they are in the stone age.

So the fact that MS Office for iPad represents the only competent touch UI for Office released to date means nothing to you? Have you tried it? It is brilliant. My iPad at work is actually useful for more than remote desktop, finally (thanks MS).

neonspark said,
the big flaw in apple's plan: they may have 1 million fart and flappy bird apps, but when it comes to enterprise software compatibility, they are in the stone age.

that's a shame

Shadrack said,

So the fact that MS Office for iPad represents the only competent touch UI for Office released to date means nothing to you? Have you tried it? It is brilliant. My iPad at work is actually useful for more than remote desktop, finally (thanks MS).

a competent touch UI for office and a productive office version are different things. The full real office suite is much more capable and productive.

and in case you didn't see the screenshots at build, the windows 8 version of the touch office has way more commands and functions than the ipad, meaning the windows version, which is developed by the office windows team, is a heck of a lot better.

don't read too much into what MSFT did: they started on the ipad version first, they finished it first because windows 8 was late. But this fall things will be like this:

windows 8: best office platform of any kind (touch or desktop)
ipad /android : second best touch office version (zero desktop)

so indeed, the ipad version is good on tablets. But if what these businesses wanted was just tablets they would stick to ipads, or better yet, cheaper android devices. The fact they snubbed the ipad even with office means that the basic functionality only goes so far, and then you need the real thing.

similar stories for photoshop, lightroom and other productivity suites which are technically on the ipad, but are a joke.

quite simply, apple needs to stick to cranky birds because realistically it can't really compete in the enteprise with things like windows 8 and the upcoming core-m x86 chips. The ARM advantage is gone meaning it has to go head to head with win32 and the business world runs on win32 systems which love nothing more than a win32 tablet like the ones we're seeing at computex.

Edited by neonspark, Jun 12 2014, 10:58pm :

neonspark said,

a competent touch UI for office and a productive office version are different things. The full real office suite is much more capable and productive.

and in case you didn't see the screenshots at build, the windows 8 version of the touch office has way more commands and functions than the ipad, meaning the windows version, which is developed by the office windows team, is a heck of a lot better.

don't read too much into what MSFT did: they started on the ipad version first, they finished it first because windows 8 was late. But this fall things will be like this:

windows 8: best office platform of any kind (touch or desktop)
ipad /android : second best touch office version (zero desktop)

so indeed, the ipad version is good on tablets. But if what these businesses wanted was just tablets they would stick to ipads, or better yet, cheaper android devices. The fact they snubbed the ipad even with office means that the basic functionality only goes so far, and then you need the real thing.

similar stories for photoshop, lightroom and other productivity suites which are technically on the ipad, but are a joke.

quite simply, apple needs to stick to cranky birds because realistically it can't really compete in the enteprise with things like windows 8 and the upcoming core-m x86 chips. The ARM advantage is gone meaning it has to go head to head with win32 and the business world runs on win32 systems which love nothing more than a win32 tablet like the ones we're seeing at computex.

Well, I've been actively trying to make a case for us all at work to get Surface 3 tablets so that full Office is just there and available (as well as all the win32 apps that we rely on). The only thing that is detouring me from that at the moment are the MS fanboys (cough cough) because gosh they sure do like to go on and on...don't they? It wouldn't be so bad if we could keep it to the positive aspects of each platform...but nah, cranky birds and fart apps are all the iPad is good for. *yawn*

Cool news! The more of these there are out there, the more vertical and industry specific software will get written, and the more general apps will become available. This is excellent.

Good PR for Microsoft, but I happen to know the EMR system that UPMC uses, and they have an iPad/iPhone app. The Citrix layer makes it full fledged EMR, but you can just as easily get the Citrix receiver on your iPad. Only difference is you would need a bluetooth keyboard for the iPad, and Type keyboard for SP3. iPads are also cheaper.

They also already had Tablet PCs deployed in their waiting rooms (and probably elsewhere as well), so this transition likely made even more sense: no retraining, no changes to workflow.

tsupersonic said,
Good PR for Microsoft, but I happen to know the EMR system that UPMC uses, and they have an iPad/iPhone app. The Citrix layer makes it full fledged EMR, but you can just as easily get the Citrix receiver on your iPad. Only difference is you would need a bluetooth keyboard for the iPad, and Type keyboard for SP3. iPads are also cheaper.

You are overlooking three important aspects.

When the existing Citrix and software fails to offer a specific feature for a CT scanner or other odd or older device, the legacy interfaces and API sets are robust enough to handle them.

Using the 'localized' processing power instead of relying on Citrix is helpful for performance and also allows for disconnected use by using Windows transactional model to seamless handle offline work.

The Stylus. Beyond the employees that do and will use it for handwriting, just for 'touch' and 'onscreen' usage, it is far more accurate. So clicking through 50 patient checkboxes is faster with the Stylus and also has more versatility when dealing with patient imaging results that can be highlighted, colored, and drawn on far easier than running a finger around an iPad screen.

Mobius Enigma said,

You are overlooking three important aspects.

When the existing Citrix and software fails to offer a specific feature for a CT scanner or other odd or older device, the legacy interfaces and API sets are robust enough to handle them.

Using the 'localized' processing power instead of relying on Citrix is helpful for performance and also allows for disconnected use by using Windows transactional model to seamless handle offline work.

The Stylus. Beyond the employees that do and will use it for handwriting, just for 'touch' and 'onscreen' usage, it is far more accurate. So clicking through 50 patient checkboxes is faster with the Stylus and also has more versatility when dealing with patient imaging results that can be highlighted, colored, and drawn on far easier than running a finger around an iPad screen.

I happen to work on the same EMR product as UPMC uses (I'm a DBA & developer on this EMR), and that is not how their main EMR works at all. All the processing is done by a backend database/app server typically running AIX or some UNIX flavor. WIthin that database/app server you have tons of windows server that handle all the interfacing to third party devices like printers, scanners, etc. The whole system is tightly integrated, and I have seen first hand of clinical users successfully using the Citrix frontend on an iPad.

BTW, no handwriting is done of any sort in most EMR's ;) That's one of the biggest advantages of any EMR system - no second guessing messy handwriting. The stylus would be nothing more than a pointing device.

tsupersonic said,
I happen to work on the same EMR product as UPMC uses (I'm a DBA & developer on this EMR), and that is not how their main EMR works at all. All the processing is done by a backend database/app server typically running AIX or some UNIX flavor. WIthin that database/app server you have tons of windows server that handle all the interfacing to third party devices like printers, scanners, etc. The whole system is tightly integrated, and I have seen first hand of clinical users successfully using the Citrix frontend on an iPad.

BTW, no handwriting is done of any sort in most EMR's ;) That's one of the biggest advantages of any EMR system - no second guessing messy handwriting. The stylus would be nothing more than a pointing device.

I was ok with your response until the last paragraph, and then you pretty much admit you have no understanding of why people use a Stylus. (Or I'm being a bit too critical, which I apologize for in advance.) :)

Even going back to PenWindows when we were shipping software to hospitals around the country, we didn't use 'handwriting' we used the 'text' from the handwriting.

Even today, employees do and will use the Stylus for handwriting instead of tapping around the stylus on the on-screen keyboard. It is the recognized text that is input and can be input or used in any OS textbox on Windows, even old software that has no understanding what a Stylus or Ink are.

To assume they are going to use it for 'ink' or handwritten 'image' input exposes that you haven't worked with the product in a production environment, or at least haven't used it well in a production environment. (I have seen Ink used with imaging results, but that would be expected as highlighting or circling a tumor is conducive to how Ink works.)

This is the basic thing, a Stylus is more accurate than touch, so even if they are just using it as a glorified 'touch' input mechanism, it still works better than the best capacitive pen you can get for an iPad that has a far lower input resolution on the screen.

As for how the database/app server work, I will defer to you, as I have not seen their system specifically. However, even in the scenario that you describe, the offline transactional models that Windows inherently offers would work, even with an old and dumb Unix database server.

With regard to the 'device' interface model, even if there is a well designed networked Windows set of servers to handle all the devices, having a tablet that can directly interfaced with devices when things are offline would still be a benefit, as things do happen.

As for the actual reason they chose the product, there are things the iPads were not doing or they would never of even considered using another product. Even if my assertions are wrong, there is something you are also missing. \

Mobius Enigma said,

I was ok with your response until the last paragraph, and then you pretty much admit you have no understanding of why people use a Stylus. (Or I'm being a bit too critical, which I apologize for in advance.) :)

Even going back to PenWindows when we were shipping software to hospitals around the country, we didn't use 'handwriting' we used the 'text' from the handwriting.

Even today, employees do and will use the Stylus for handwriting instead of tapping around the stylus on the on-screen keyboard. It is the recognized text that is input and can be input or used in any OS textbox on Windows, even old software that has no understanding what a Stylus or Ink are.

To assume they are going to use it for 'ink' or handwritten 'image' input exposes that you haven't worked with the product in a production environment, or at least haven't used it well in a production environment. (I have seen Ink used with imaging results, but that would be expected as highlighting or circling a tumor is conducive to how Ink works.)

This is the basic thing, a Stylus is more accurate than touch, so even if they are just using it as a glorified 'touch' input mechanism, it still works better than the best capacitive pen you can get for an iPad that has a far lower input resolution on the screen.

As for how the database/app server work, I will defer to you, as I have not seen their system specifically. However, even in the scenario that you describe, the offline transactional models that Windows inherently offers would work, even with an old and dumb Unix database server.

With regard to the 'device' interface model, even if there is a well designed networked Windows set of servers to handle all the devices, having a tablet that can directly interfaced with devices when things are offline would still be a benefit, as things do happen.

As for the actual reason they chose the product, there are things the iPads were not doing or they would never of even considered using another product. Even if my assertions are wrong, there is something you are also missing. \

My experiences are based from what I have seen. I haven't seen any docs that use stylus (stylii) to draw over imaging results like x-rays/other scans. However, that doesn't mean that our organization doesn't do it or that other organizations don't do it. The last time I myself had a scan done, they didn't disclose the images, docs just told me the result, which is fine. Some docs might do that depending on the medical situation.

Absolutely agree that stylus's are great. I love the stylus on my Surface Pro 2 - it is an amazing tool for when I'm lazy to type or want to get creative. Haven't tried any iPad stylus's and have no interest either. My iPad is a pure media consumption/web surfing device. IMO tablets w/o active digitizers are just useless for any content creation.

As for the EMR, it's an OLTP model - data needs to get processed in real time as the patient chart evolves constantly. Say a patient is admitted to the EMR, that patient would have a new encounter at that time (if the patient already exists in the system) in their chart. The docs could then order lab tests, medication, etc., so it's all time critical.

I am only speaking for this particular EMR, which happens to be one of the most popular in the US currently. They have multiple procedures for downtimes, including a web site with patient reports or if network is down, dedicated computer systems in each unit that also have these reports. It is a very comprehensive system with many moving parts. That is why this EMR also has accompanying iPad/iPhone apps that clinicians can use effectively. What you are saying is probably true for the more uncommon and "cheaper" EMR's. I don't know about UPMC's setup, but they clearly have more systems where having a full fledged device like the SP3 is advantageous compared to an iPad.

Doesnt really specify if there are currently 2k iPads in use. Just states they are deploying 2k SP3s. iPad could have been in a trial period.

Lent out to patients to play games and movies? I see no reason why they'd be chucked out. Might as well use them to keep patients entertained.

DConnell said,
Lent out to patients to play games and movies? I see no reason why they'd be chucked out. Might as well use them to keep patients entertained.

might as well used them for their primary purpose then :)

Frustrating to see a medical center, of all organizations, waste resources on some experiment that was probably started by some higher-up who liked the toy he got for Christmas, before finally coming to its senses and using the right tool for the job.

Now watch this getting labeled flame bait.

_dandy_ said,
Frustrating to see a medical center, of all organizations, waste resources on some experiment that was probably started by some higher-up who liked the toy he got for Christmas, before finally coming to its senses and using the right tool for the job.

Now watch this getting labeled flame bait.


Let me guess, you must be talking about the iPad... am I right?

Gergel7077 said,

Let me guess, you must be talking about the iPad... am I right?

If you need help sorting out my comment, just re-read the article title.

_dandy_ said,
Frustrating to see a medical center, of all organizations, waste resources on some experiment that was probably started by some higher-up who liked the toy he got for Christmas, before finally coming to its senses and using the right tool for the job.

Now watch this getting labeled flame bait.

You're not very familiar with UPMC, are you? They're on the cutting edge of lots of technology, such as training nurses and doctors on computerized EMR instead of paper EMR that many other hospitals use, and recently were in the news for trying to freeze a patient ala Han Solo style.

Of course they're also a terrible monopoly who pays their employees like ######, but whatever. Microsoft... wooo.....

greenwizard88 said,
You're not very familiar with UPMC, are you? They're on the cutting edge of lots of technology, such as training nurses and doctors on computerized EMR instead of paper EMR that many other hospitals use, and recently were in the news for trying to freeze a patient ala Han Solo style.

Of course they're also a terrible monopoly who pays their employees like ######, but whatever. Microsoft... wooo.....

I'm not sure this changes anything of what I wrote.

_dandy_ said,

If you need help sorting out my comment, just re-read the article title.


Re-reading a vague comment is only going to re-enforce that it's a vague comment. So I had to guess iPad. ;)

uxo22 said,
Doesn't matter anyway it was just flame bait.

Interpret it as flamebait if you wish--what I wrote is my honest belief.

Gergel7077 said,

Re-reading a vague comment is only going to re-enforce that it's a vague comment. So I had to guess iPad. ;)

It's only vague if you don't put it into the proper context. The article title is all you need to make sense of my "vague" comment.

I wouldn't be surprise if the business update for the SP3 is good, MS made a point of letting us know that they went out to business/pro users and asked them what type of device they wanted and came back with the SP3. I also remember a few big names like Coca-Cola being asked what device they wanted from MS.

Sounds like UPMC needed to run different apps or needed something more compatible with there other systems/environment. No surprise really.

techbeck said,
Sounds like UPMC needed to run different apps or needed something more compatible with there other systems/environment. No surprise really.

So why were they even trying to use the ipad to begin with. They should have called you guys and got a proper diagnostic of their system.

They pretty much said in the article that the ipad was lacking some of the functionality that they needed. (probably had a lot to do with speed, and it's lack of ability to proper file manage, amongst networking weaknesses that the ipad would have in an enterprise environment.) I guess if you read into that you can say it was a compatibility issue.

uxo22 said,

So why were they even trying to use the ipad to begin with. They should have called you guys and got a proper diagnostic of their system.

They pretty much said in the article that the ipad was lacking some of the functionality that they needed. (probably had a lot to do with speed, and it's lack of ability to proper file manage, amongst networking weaknesses that the ipad would have in an enterprise environment.) I guess if you read into that you can say it was a compatibility issue.

I would guess its more to do with authentication with existing apps that most likely require active directory auth. On a windows 8 pro device that is domain joined users sign in to the device with their domain credentials meaning they get single sign on for all active directory based apps (exchange and whatever other MS or 3rd party apps they use). All their PC's will be domain members with single sign on so this makes sense as it allows IT to keep the network secure by forcing security policies (like all the other devices - password complexity, expiration, re use, central user management, GP based device management, updates) on the devices and not have loads of ipads with user based pins for security.

techbeck said,
Sounds like UPMC needed to run different apps or needed something more compatible with there other systems/environment. No surprise really.
And they finally have a really viable option to do so while filling the tablet need.

duddit2 said,

I would guess its more to do with authentication with existing apps that most likely require active directory auth. On a windows 8 pro device that is domain joined users sign in to the device with their domain credentials meaning they get single sign on for all active directory based apps (exchange and whatever other MS or 3rd party apps they use). All their PC's will be domain members with single sign on so this makes sense as it allows IT to keep the network secure by forcing security policies (like all the other devices - password complexity, expiration, re use, central user management, GP based device management, updates) on the devices and not have loads of ipads with user based pins for security.

I agree with you 100.

But I thought Windows 8 was a "failure", and that no enterprise would want it? ;)


Glad to see the Surface gain traction. It might not even be released yet, but it's still a third gen device, running software that has had ample time for testing.

Dot Matrix said,
But I thought Windows 8 was a "failure", and that no enterprise would want it?

Win 8 is only deemed a failure by Mac OS zombies ;) Us Windows guys love change, Maccies don't, they enjoy the Apple handholding.

Tidosho said,
Win 8 is only deemed a failure by Mac OS zombies ;)

Ahh, so that must be why MS is making all the changes in the OS...

I use Win8 at work and have everything pinned to my task bar that I use most often. If I had to stare at the start screen all the time, I would not have upgraded. No other complaints otherwise and Win8 seems to be quicker and runs really well.

I love my Mac and i love Windows 8, love the performance, had a bit of a curve when it was first released but after a couple of months love it much more than 7, 8.1 was the icing on the cake.

You'll find that a lot of Mac people use both and don't really care, i see the same posts on the Mac forums by Windows Zombies

Windows 8 was a good learning experience for me, so was the Ribbon. Unlike a lot of people, I didn't whinge about it, I just got on with learning it. I have used Mac OS quite a lot, but don't like the basic user interface, most stuff feels hidden away like in Mac OS's control panel, it's too sparse, I have more control in Windows without needing a command prompt.

Back on topic though, I feel it's derailing. The Surface 3 is awesome and I want one :)

Dot Matrix said,
But I thought Windows 8 was a "failure", and that no enterprise would want it? ;)


Glad to see the Surface gain traction. It might not even be released yet, but it's still a third gen device, running software that has had ample time for testing.

Windows 8 is a big time failure.............on the desktop. Like many of us have been saying and you've consistently ignored, Windows 8 works fine on a tablet. On full fledged laptops and desktops, it's utter nonsense.

JHBrown said,
On full fledged laptops and desktops, it's utter nonsense.

Until you take 3 seconds to change it if that's your thing and then realize it's no different from previous versions.

JHBrown said,
Windows 8 is a big time failure.............on the desktop. Like many of us have been saying and you've consistently ignored, Windows 8 works fine on a tablet. On full fledged laptops and desktops, it's utter nonsense.

Pretty much. And if it was Windows 8 that make people switch, they would have switched with the SP or SP2. I think people are more after the changes/improvements of the SP3 hardware more so than the OS.

JHBrown said,
Windows 8 is a big time failure.............on the desktop. Like many of us have been saying and you've consistently ignored, Windows 8 works fine on a tablet. On full fledged laptops and desktops, it's utter nonsense.
Been using utter nonsense for the past 2 years and still going strong! Even on a second laptop, which apparently isn't a full-fledged laptop (because it's very thin, has a touchscreen and an SSD lolol)!

And I'm a programmer. I wonder how I got anywhere in life... o.O

JHBrown said,
Windows 8 is a big time failure.............on the desktop. Like many of us have been saying and you've consistently ignored, Windows 8 works fine on a tablet. On full fledged laptops and desktops, it's utter nonsense.

Works fantastically for me. Maybe you're holding it wrong? ;)

Tidosho said,

Win 8 is only deemed a failure by Mac OS zombies ;) Us Windows guys love change, Maccies don't, they enjoy the Apple handholding.

People running Mac OS couldn't care any less about whatever the status of Windows 8 was. As someone who works with both, and hears the complaints surrounding Windows 8 (unfounded, I believe), it came from the Windows crowd. Me? I actually did retire my MacBook Pro for the original Surface Pro. Still using it today.

JHBrown said,
Windows 8 is a big time failure.............on the desktop. Like many of us have been saying and you've consistently ignored, Windows 8 works fine on a tablet. On full fledged laptops and desktops, it's utter nonsense.

It's no different on the desktop, than it is on the Surface.

JHBrown said,
Windows 8 is a big time failure.............on the desktop. Like many of us have been saying and you've consistently ignored, Windows 8 works fine on a tablet. On full fledged laptops and desktops, it's utter nonsense.

Windows 8 works spectacularly well on the desktop I'm using right now (dual monitor, keyboard & mouse). I'm way more efficient and productive with it than I was with Windows 7. The Windows 8.1.1 software is excellent (I freely admit the 8.0 version was sub-par).

The only 'utter nonsense' is those saying that Windows 8.1.1 doesn't work well on a desktop. It works great out of the box, and even better if you customize and tweak to your way of using.

Your opinions are sadly uninformed and out of date.

JHBrown said,
Windows 8 is a big time failure.............on the desktop. Like many of us have been saying and you've consistently ignored, Windows 8 works fine on a tablet. On full fledged laptops and desktops, it's utter nonsense.
I have to be using it wrong then. It works great on my desktop at home, works great as a home server and at worked it is fine in the Enterprise.

I say 'fine' because we have a few ancient web apps that barely work with anything modern and 'worked' because I had to send my seed unit back to get a refreshed image (isn't available for remote imaging yet).

Tidosho said,

Win 8 is only deemed a failure by Mac OS zombies ;) Us Windows guys love change, Maccies don't, they enjoy the Apple handholding.


Do you mean W8.1 Update1?
Night and day between W8 and W8.1 Update1.... and just in case: I never owned an Apple computer.

techbeck said,

Ahh, so that must be why MS is making all the changes in the OS...

I use Win8 at work and have everything pinned to my task bar that I use most often. If I had to stare at the start screen all the time, I would not have upgraded. No other complaints otherwise and Win8 seems to be quicker and runs really well.

MS is making the changes based on customer feedback as any company should do. They are not abandoning the new OS architecture, they are making tweaks. Keep it up fine boy.

Uhhhhh why the hell would I connect my desktop computer to a Microsoft account :/ I don't but either way I have a start menu w apps that I don't use or a Store I can't download any apps from. I don't see it as a failure, I think they should remember the desktop experience and give it to those that still want ---> thus Windows 7 is still amazing. For what people want computers for nowdays (portability), they should get Win 8, but I think the Start Menu for desktop is useless (unless I guess for casual users)

suprNOVA said,
Uhhhhh why the hell would I connect my desktop computer to a Microsoft account

Plenty of reasons. I for one, use Store apps, and backup up work to my OneDrive account.

Cosmocronos said,

Do you mean W8.1 Update1?
Night and day between W8 and W8.1 Update1.... and just in case: I never owned an Apple computer.
My home machines are 8.1 Update 1 and my work laptop was 8.0.

Max Norris said,

Until you take 3 seconds to change it if that's your thing and then realize it's no different from previous versions.
Exactly what it took with my 3 kids (under ten) and they love it so much more than Windows 7.

nickcruz said,

They are not abandoning the new OS architecture, they are making tweaks. Keep it up fine boy.

Where did I say they were? I said they were making changes since obviously what they were doing was not working. Which pretty much is the same thing you said, tweaks.

Changes does not mean abandoning. . Read, understand, then post.

Dot Matrix said,
But I thought Windows 8 was a "failure", and that no enterprise would want it? ;)


Glad to see the Surface gain traction. It might not even be released yet, but it's still a third gen device, running software that has had ample time for testing.

8.1 isn't. Also new and current (x86/x64) desktop apps will 'just work' (obviously no need to recompile as would be the case for an RT device). I presume that was the primary reason behind the choice to ditch iPad.

Edited by 68k, Jun 13 2014, 12:36am :

JHBrown said,
Windows 8 is a big time failure.............on the desktop. Like many of us have been saying and you've consistently ignored, Windows 8 works fine on a tablet. On full fledged laptops and desktops, it's utter nonsense.

That is simple just not true. I am still doing every thing I did in windows 7 on my windows 8 machine. Plus I'm enjoying new features that weren't present in windows 8. You people throw the word "Failure" around far too often.

I guess it makes it a little easier. In other words, don't bother with Windows 8 unless you really want the under the hood changes. Yes it's not bad (instant wake is amazing) but I mean I can't see my desktop computer using this. There is just way to much information on it to sacrifice to my Microsoft account regardless of whether or not someone is trying to read it or not. Again I get it for tablets, laptops and phones but meh, Windows 7 still rocks.

suprNOVA said,
Uhhhhh why the hell would I connect my desktop computer to a Microsoft account :/ I don't but either way I have a start menu w apps that I don't use or a Store I can't download any apps from. I don't see it as a failure, I think they should remember the desktop experience and give it to those that still want ---> thus Windows 7 is still amazing. For what people want computers for nowdays (portability), they should get Win 8, but I think the Start Menu for desktop is useless (unless I guess for casual users)

There are TONS of good reasons, but I'll tell you the best one. Some time after installing Windows 8 on my desktop, my desktop died. Hard drive failure. I decided to just get a new one, since I was never that fond of the existing one.

I didn't look forward to having to spend an entire weekend or more re-installing and reconfiguring everything, and going through the whole backup and restore thing.

Thankfully, though, I logged in with a Microsoft ID (I use a PIN to make it simple and fast to sign in), and I used the new "File History" backups.

When the new PC arrived, I simply set it up, plugged it in, entered my Microsoft ID, and specified the old File History repository (the new desktop had a new name). ALL my configurations came back (start screen, desktop settings, everything), and all my files in all my libraries came back. All my "Windows 8" apps were back too. The ONLY thing I had to do was re-install the desktop apps... which was pretty trivial compared to everything else. I mean, who remembers and writes down the dozens or hundreds of little configuration tweaks? And the file restore was AUTOMATIC. I didn't have to do anything.

In addition, it allows easy syncing of things between my laptop and Desktop, and the integrated OneDrive let's me easy share files between them too. My phone auto-uploads all my pics to OneDrive as I take them, which means they're IMMEDIATELY available on my desktop, laptop, and tablet.

My question to you is, why the hell WOULDN'T you want to sign in with a Microsoft ID??

suprNOVA said,
I guess it makes it a little easier. In other words, don't bother with Windows 8 unless you really want the under the hood changes. Yes it's not bad (instant wake is amazing) but I mean I can't see my desktop computer using this. There is just way to much information on it to sacrifice to my Microsoft account regardless of whether or not someone is trying to read it or not. Again I get it for tablets, laptops and phones but meh, Windows 7 still rocks.

Think bigger. Using your MS Account is like having a robust and secure consumer level AD sign on. This brings all the migration and roaming features that corporate customers have enjoyed since the 1990s to consumers.

Even you don't use any of the 'integration' that your credentials allow, a MS Account allows you to 'roam' with your settings and features seamlessly from PC and device to device. It even extends to just when you sign via a browser on a public or friend's computer.

You are missing a large part of what makes and 'made' Windows for IT really cool over 15 years ago for enterprise, as the employees could sign in anywhere and their settings and data (from the desktop side) would follow them, and the same can be accomplished with Windows 8 and a MS Account today. (Hint: use OneDrive, Map your Desktop/Documents/Music/Picture folders to the OneDrive locations and you have all your files on every device, along with all your desktop software settings that allow 'roaming'.)

The 'WinRT' integration side and use with the MS Account is just whipped cream on top of the sundae, it isn't what makes the sundae. i.e. It is just a bonus for dealing with a single login for Apps and Websites etc.


Okay fine. Roaming seems pretty legitimate, and thanks for great response. But still at least those corporate level features are backed by some corporate level security system. Who's to say in 5 years, laws change and now someone else may have access to my account and all that comes with? (fair enough you could say somebody could have physical access to my pc, but the chance of that happening is different, and even if something does happen I can always make a backup etc.
I don't have anything to hide that's of serious importance but i'd like to feel that my ideas or whatever I have on a pc are not being taken advantage of.

Like my whole perspective comes from the idea that Apps are slowly destroying the internet because now third party developers and etc control what we see and how we see it. + I dunno i still dont feel the need to port my settings to various devices as i usually am working on one + why am i taking work home and/or shouldn't i be using the resources they give me?

edit: i'm definitely taking a look into roaming features because it might be good to create an account that can sync my work desktop and my work laptop together

JHBrown said,
Windows 8 is a big time failure.............on the desktop. Like many of us have been saying and you've consistently ignored, Windows 8 works fine on a tablet. On full fledged laptops and desktops, it's utter nonsense.
Works fine for me. To trolls like yourself WIN8 == the start screen which you seem to not be able to wrap your minute brain around. It's vastly more useful and flexible compared to the startmenu which for the vast majority of users is a cluttered mess. I dread the return of that menu as it will not improve the overall look and feel of the UI in my opinion.

paulheu said,
Works fine for me. To trolls like yourself WIN8 == the start screen which you seem to not be able to wrap your minute brain around. It's vastly more useful and flexible compared to the startmenu which for the vast majority of users is a cluttered mess. I dread the return of that menu as it will not improve the overall look and feel of the UI in my opinion.
An opinion stated does not make one a troll. I'll start calling my wife a troll since she doesn't believe I need a new Corvette. Nothing wrong with difference in opinions Pauly.

techbeck said,

Ahh, so that must be why MS is making all the changes in the OS...

I use Win8 at work and have everything pinned to my task bar that I use most often. If I had to stare at the start screen all the time, I would not have upgraded. No other complaints otherwise and Win8 seems to be quicker and runs really well.

Me too, been that way since windows 8 RTM. I like the start screen but not for day to day x86 apps - they al get pined (so I get jump lists and quick access - did the same on 7), I use the start screen for apps like calendar and weather, sports and news and other modern apps like games etc.

techbeck said,
Ahh, so that must be why MS is making all the changes in the OS...

I use Win8 at work and have everything pinned to my task bar that I use most often. If I had to stare at the start screen all the time, I would not have upgraded. No other complaints otherwise and Win8 seems to be quicker and runs really well.

I think it's fair to say that 8.1 really helped with consumer adoption. However, I don't think the way it has been portrayed has been a fair representation other than people's reaction to change.

You have to think this is going to be a regular occurrence wherever the iPad is used in a use case that requires horsepower combined with a solid touch experience.

Along with an enterprise windows server based environment, where active directory is in use for all computers and server apps (exchange etc). Meaning that users can logon to their tablets with their domain account just like all the other laptops and desktops and IT can manage them centrally (updates/push apps/security etc.).

This is such an obvious section of the market that will be switching from ipads (or androids) due to the obvious management and usage benefits.

duddit2 said,
Along with an enterprise windows server based environment, where active directory is in use for all computers and server apps (exchange etc). Meaning that users can logon to their tablets with their domain account just like all the other laptops and desktops and IT can manage them centrally (updates/push apps/security etc.).

This is such an obvious section of the market that will be switching from ipads (or androids) due to the obvious management and usage benefits.

It's worth noting though that iOS has some serious enterprise management abilities... much more so than WP and perhaps even Windows (since iOS's management is very tailored to mobile, this I may be wrong about though).

MS really needs to step up on device management I think. But everything you said is 100% true.

JHBrown said,
Very unlikely for casual users of tablets.

Uh oh, someone sounds a little pessimistic today...LOL. News flash... there are millions of "not so casual" tablet users out there. ;)

Tidosho said,
Haha looks like Apple's same-old same-old monopoly is dropping! People now want substance over style! Finally!

Then why didnt they switch when the SP2 came out if they wanted substance? The SP3 is a much better designed system and IMO, they switched because of that and are still going after style.

techbeck said,

Then why didnt they switch when the SP2 came out if they wanted substance? The SP3 is a much better designed system and IMO, they switched because of that and are still going after style.

I was referring to the specifications of the Surface, like the CPU and RAM, not the OS running on it when I said "substance". The specs of the Surface Pro 3 well outdo any iPad ARM crap, especially the Core i7 Surface!

CJEric said,

in what world?

Where every next device is almost identical to the last? They just stick a new tiny feature in to profit from the droves of droners ;)

techbeck said,

Then why didnt they switch when the SP2 came out if they wanted substance? The SP3 is a much better designed system and IMO, they switched because of that and are still going after style.

I did!

Tidosho said,

Where every next device is almost identical to the last? They just stick a new tiny feature in to profit from the droves of droners ;)

You realize how long the iPad and iPhone have been out right? Let's have this same conversation 4 years from and we can say the same thing about Microsoft. Do car companies redesign their cars every year? I have an Ultrabook that is 3 years old now. The newest version is identical except for a CPU upgrade, and storage. Do you expect something dramatically different every year? Not even Microsoft can accomplish that.

JHBrown said,
You realize how long the iPad and iPhone have been out right? Let's have this same conversation 4 years from and we can say the same thing about Microsoft. Do car companies redesign their cars every year? I have an Ultrabook that is 3 years old now. The newest version is identical except for a CPU upgrade, and storage. Do you expect something dramatically different every year? Not even Microsoft can accomplish that.

There is no need to redesign the HW if it's very well done. But damn, how long are you going to stay with the boring old static OS. Heck even iOS7 is more of the same with some color changes. Hopefully iOS8 will be something to get excited about.

uxo22 said,

But damn, how long are you going to stay with the boring old static OS.

Well..... looking at all the ranting at the release of Win95, XP, Vista and Win8, it seems a ton of people disagrees with you ;-P

Gergel7077 said,

Uh oh, someone sounds a little pessimistic today...LOL. News flash... there are millions of "not so casual" tablet users out there. ;)

who are not the ones he's talking about