PayPal and Visa back up after attacks by Anonymous [Update]

Anonymous sure has been fairly busy recently with their recent attacks on PayPal, MasterCard, and now are preparing to take down Visa's website according to a tweet by @Anon_Operation under Operation Payback.

The group today announced the attack by tweeting;

NEXT TARGET: WWW.VISA.COM | TR:30 MINS. GET YOUR WEAPONS READY #ddos #wikiealsk #payback,

Anon has already starting attempting to get around their hosting problems and Twitter blocking the popular tag #wikileaks and their information page regarding the attack has utilized the free site, PasteHTML to set up a quick and temporary page.

PayPal, MasterCard, and Visa all have followed through in not allowing donations to be made to the WikiLeaks organization. Whether this was due to commands issued by the United States Government or not isn't clear for at least MasterCard and Visa, but was confirmed in PayPal's case.

Interestingly enough, and perhaps a poor move by the Anon movement, one can quickly check to see who all this has been retweeted by, likely making them suspects of aiding DDoS attacks, which are illegal. The Anon Operation has switched their hashtags to #wikiealsk to get around the prevention of using #wikileaks in trending topics enforced by the social networking site, Twitter.

Users get involved in a DDoS by voluntarily allowing their computers to become remotely controlled so that many can work as one. Aiding in this type of activity is illegal, although it doesn't seem to be an enforced law right now.

At the time of the tweet, Visa had 30 minutes left until the attack begins, time will tell how their servers will hold and what repercussions will come from this latest in a series of Anonymous attacks.

Update #1: The group has started the attack; Visa.com appears to be down for all right now. That was fast.

Update #2: If you're in the US and wanting to use Visa.com, you can visit http://usa.visa.com/, which appears to use a different provider.

Update #3: The group stated on their IRC channel during the attack:

We are the marching sound of a dawning resistance. We are tired of the disinformation; we are tired of the corruption. We are tired of the proxy wars and the secrecy. Freedom of information is the noose around this status quo.

Update #4: Facebook just took down Operation Paybacks' page.

Update #5: It looks like Visa's commerce engine, verified.visa.com is also down, as of now. Anyone had issues making transactions? Let us know in the comments!

Update #6: Twitter just suspended the Operation Payback account. It's already been replaced, too.

Update #7: Mastercard says that the "leaked" credit cards that were circulating online were fake.

       

Update #8: Twitter is under attack from Operation Payback right now. The site is currently stable.

Update #9: Twitter has reactivated the @Anon_Operations account, reassures it was a mistake.

Update #10: Although @Anon_Operations has been "restored" they lost their followers. The current word is that they have switched to the @Op_Payback account. The attack on Twitter is no longer a priority as they have accounts there. Their attacks are still going strong on Visa's web site, and now are looking for the next target.

Update #11: Anonymous' IRC server briefly was down due to an overload on their servers by users. The group is still trying to come up with a new direction to go into, something other than DDoSing.

Update #12: Twitter has suspended the original, @Anon_Operation account again

Update #13: PayPal has come under attack, resulting in a downed site for some and just very slow for others. Anonymous is currently attacking both Visa and PayPal.

Update #14: Attacks on PayPal seem to have ceased, with focus still on Visa.

Update #15: Attacks will begin to wind down on Visa as Anonymous moves to their next target, PayPal after getting some things together. Anonymous' reasoning is that they would legally have to return the frozen funds anyway. 

Update #16: Anonymous will begin attacks on PayPal at 10 P.M. EST, setting PayPal as the new target. 

Update #17: PayPal has come under attack and been brought down.

Update #18: PayPal appears to have made a comeback and is reporting as online for many users. Disorganization from Anonymous left users confused as to which part of PayPal to target, leaving not too much of an impression. If you are still having troubles, try connecting to "www.paypal.com" instead of just "paypal.com."

Update #19: Anonymous has changed their target from PayPal's front end to their API servers which are used for processing payments. This does not seem to be globally down, although some regions are affected by it. Anonymous has also upgraded the tool they use to DDoS sites and are in the transition phase of moving everyone over to it.

Update #20: Tweets from multiple Anonymous sources claim the next target will be Amazon in about two hours. This is in response to Amazon now selling the WikiLeaks Cables. They have continued focus on PayPal.

       

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xbamaris said,
paypal.com is under attack, its still showing no symptoms but they gave up on Amazon it seems.

Because when they are faced with an adequate IT department their attacks are useless. Idiots.

Errr... k. Amazon making a profit from the leaked documents? There must be something legally wrong with that.

splur said,
Errr... k. Amazon making a profit from the leaked documents? There must be something legally wrong with that.

I agree and very hypocritical of them. They deserve what they get for such hypocrisy.

Dont waste your time kid.. if you aren't smart enough to use google, then you aren't smart enough to be a script kiddie..

Its really hilarious ... all of these script kiddies download a program and think they are leet7 haxors ... what a bunch of losers...

Professional Lurker said,
Its really hilarious ... all of these script kiddies download a program and think they are leet7 haxors ... what a bunch of losers...

Until the first one gets busted, then the pyramid will fall as they give each other up. Sure the core 3-5 people that designed the software are safe but the retards that are downloading it and using it have no clue and will get busted. Plus with the amount of money they potentially could be costing these business's they are toast on several continents. It will be funny.

ffs amazon, you won't host the site, but you will sell the cables? I think you deserve everything you get.

What more can you honestly expect by an organization made up of people who do not respect a certain need for diplomacy and secrecy? Young people today just don't understand what it sometimes takes to make a country safe; they expect everything open, free and handed to them, of course like minded people with defend their views (Anon and wikileaks).

Que Anon/wikileaks cheer-leading group of one (omnicoder) in 3... 2... 1...

Mainer82 said,
What more can you honestly expect by an organization made up of people who do not respect a certain need for diplomacy and secrecy? Young people today just don't understand what it sometimes takes to make a country safe; they expect everything open, free and handed to them, of course like minded people with defend their views (Anon and wikileaks).

Que Anon/wikileaks cheer-leading group of one (omnicoder) in 3... 2... 1...


I agree. If Wikileaks would've just stuck to whistleblowing illegal activity, I probably would've just not said anything. However, they went way above and beyond that. They're doing stuff now out of spite and just because. They crossed the line and that is why I absolutely refuse to support Wikileaks or its people. Too many people are not seeing the big picture. There is more to just having information available to you.

Steve B said,

I agree. If Wikileaks would've just stuck to whistleblowing illegal activity, I probably would've just not said anything. However, they went way above and beyond that. They're doing stuff now out of spite and just because. They crossed the line and that is why I absolutely refuse to support Wikileaks or its people. Too many people are not seeing the big picture. There is more to just having information available to you.

My whole point from the onset. Whistle-blowing is one thing but now they are moving into other territories, all for the press. Whats next, medical records, undercover cops names, pictures and addresses, "The people have a right to know" They are scum and will do whatever it takes to draw a crowd, and these script kiddies are backing them because they have no friends and no clue.

http://www.facebook.com/photo....1069465802.303755.709505801


Gandhi gave the theory and practice of nonviolence, practiced it in his daily life and used it to resolve conflicts. In the method we are adopting in India, he said, fraud, deceit, lying and all the ugly brood of violence and untruth have absolutely no room.5 Everything is done openly and above board, for truth hates secrecy. The more open you are, the more truthful you are likely to be. There is no such thing as defeat and despair in the dictionary of a man who bases his life on Truth and Nonviolence. Truth and nonviolence are perhaps the most active forces in the world. A man who uses regular weapons and is intent on destroying his enemies, does at least require some rest, Gandhi argued. He is therefore essentially inactive for some part in the twenty four hours. Not so in the case of the votary of truth and nonviolence.

i thought it would be ironic to put this quote here.... it realy depends on how you see denial of service attacks - violent cybercribe or non-violent in the physical world?

Love the way that these conversations start with the interesting comments about the actual topic, then it goes into the people praising them and then finally closes off with everyone slating them.

I don't know which side of the fence I sit on, and why should I?

Either way these big corporations are realising that they are not as safe as they may have once thought and what Anon are doing isn't exactly rocket science the security and reliability of the web has been compromised which is going to be great business for years to come for network and security consultants.

Lame, once these guys get out of mom's basement and get a job they will see that no one really cares about this kind of "protest".

bob_c_b said,
Lame, once these guys get out of mom's basement and get a job they will see that no one really cares about this kind of "protest".

So you skipped to the bottom of this page then and didn't read any of the comments?

I like where it goes, at least someone stands tall against companies who are full of sh.t and lead by politicians.

.... Is it first cyber war yet?

This damn group of cyber terrorists are typical morons with nothing better to do but think the world cares what they do or what their opinion is. These worthless piles of garbage can only do something from behind a keyboard and only through crime. Once they step out into the real world they are the ones who pump your gas or fold your burger wrappers in a greasy kitchen. The only reason they are called "Anonymous" is because they have no balls to show themselves and take responsibility for their pathetic actions. I guess someone's gotta fill in the bottom end of society....They have to understand that nobody respects them and if they knew who they were, they would spit in their faces.

ManOfMystery said,
This damn group of cyber terrorists are typical morons with nothing better to do but think the world cares what they do or what their opinion is. These worthless piles of garbage can only do something from behind a keyboard and only through crime. Once they step out into the real world they are the ones who pump your gas or fold your burger wrappers in a greasy kitchen. The only reason they are called "Anonymous" is because they have no balls to show themselves and take responsibility for their pathetic actions. I guess someone's gotta fill in the bottom end of society....They have to understand that nobody respects them and if they knew who they were, they would spit in their faces.

+1 Well said!


ManOfMystery said,
This damn group of cyber terrorists are typical morons with nothing better to do but think the world cares what they do or what their opinion is. These worthless piles of garbage can only do something from behind a keyboard and only through crime. Once they step out into the real world they are the ones who pump your gas or fold your burger wrappers in a greasy kitchen. The only reason they are called "Anonymous" is because they have no balls to show themselves and take responsibility for their pathetic actions. I guess someone's gotta fill in the bottom end of society....They have to understand that nobody respects them and if they knew who they were, they would spit in their faces.

Please sir, do not speak for me when you say this. I respect Anonymous and it's about time someone fights back.

ManOfMystery said,
This damn group of cyber terrorists are typical morons with nothing better to do but think the world cares what they do or what their opinion is. These worthless piles of garbage can only do something from behind a keyboard and only through crime. Once they step out into the real world they are the ones who pump your gas or fold your burger wrappers in a greasy kitchen. The only reason they are called "Anonymous" is because they have no balls to show themselves and take responsibility for their pathetic actions. I guess someone's gotta fill in the bottom end of society....They have to understand that nobody respects them and if they knew who they were, they would spit in their faces.

You sound like an elitist snob to me.

ManOfMystery said,
This damn group of cyber terrorists are typical morons with nothing better to do but think the world cares what they do or what their opinion is. These worthless piles of garbage can only do something from behind a keyboard and only through crime. Once they step out into the real world they are the ones who pump your gas or fold your burger wrappers in a greasy kitchen. The only reason they are called "Anonymous" is because they have no balls to show themselves and take responsibility for their pathetic actions. I guess someone's gotta fill in the bottom end of society....They have to understand that nobody respects them and if they knew who they were, they would spit in their faces.

The only people that actually care are the basement dwellers on the forums that wish they could be involved and in someway in their pathetic mind thinks Wikileaks will actually have an effect on anything.

If just ONE of these scriptkiddies gets caught, they'll no longer be able to call their guild "anonymous". It'll have to be "Anonymous plus the guy who got caught"

Eurod said,
If just ONE of these scriptkiddies gets caught, they'll no longer be able to call their guild "anonymous". It'll have to be "Anonymous plus the guy who got caught"

And the little fool won't get that Kinect he's expecting for Christmas

Ahh, could the next target be NASA website or something like that? Since NASA is one of the biggest companies on US and it's the ONLY twitter that OP_Payback is following, I think they could be a target too...I think that Facebook is a target since they removed the Operation Payback account from their servers This is getting cool hum

To all you guys who think this is so great what Anon + etc. are doing:

These events will now supply politicians around the world added ammunition to create legislation to control more and more of the internet. You might as well forget about net neutrality if this keeps up and get ready for increased Big Brother intervention.

It might be fun to see what is happening, but we all lose in the long run, people. Governments will not tolerate this sort of thing as it affects commerce in a negative way. There's too much at stake.

Yep, Anon really did us all a big favor! (Sarcasm Sheldon, sarcasm )

COKid said,
To all you guys who think this is so great what Anon + etc. are doing:

These events will now supply politicians around the world added ammunition to create legislation to control more and more of the internet. You might as well forget about net neutrality if this keeps up and get ready for increased Big Brother intervention.

It might be fun to see what is happening, but we all lose in the long run, people. Governments will not tolerate this sort of thing as it affects commerce in a negative way. There's too much at stake.

Yep, Anon really did us all a big favor! (Sarcasm Sheldon, sarcasm )

The funny thing is that you're right. There's a select few corporations in the world that own and control all of the major news/media outlets, and they control everything we see and hear. If something has a negative impact on profits, regardless of whether it is the truth, or the right thing to do, or if the target company is deserving, they have the power that we don't have to influence politics and pass legislation. America is going downhill fast. When a corporation controls the government, (and many of them DO have way too much influence) the people lose.

COKid said,
To all you guys who think this is so great what Anon + etc. are doing:

These events will now supply politicians around the world added ammunition to create legislation to control more and more of the internet. You might as well forget about net neutrality if this keeps up and get ready for increased Big Brother intervention.

It might be fun to see what is happening, but we all lose in the long run, people. Governments will not tolerate this sort of thing as it affects commerce in a negative way. There's too much at stake.

Yep, Anon really did us all a big favor! (Sarcasm Sheldon, sarcasm )

So, they'll control even more our internet? But now, imagine if such thing happens...JUST BECAUSE A SITE WENT DOWN and a guy was arrested lots of people are ddosing major sites on internet, imagine if governments tries to control it even more, then I suppose that even more people will try to ddosing everything...and then we can sit, and watch the 3rd world war or a civic war (whatever...), but this time, without "real" weapons, but within hacking tools...it would be sooo nice *-*
I really agree with what Anon is doing man...i don't think that government should block anysite that didnt even brake any law man...US is just doing this cause the **** came onto them...they're trying to fix what THEY did, hiding from people the truth...and the WORST part is, some guys agree with them! So bad...

fee said,

So, they'll control even more our internet? But now, imagine if such thing happens...JUST BECAUSE A SITE WENT DOWN and a guy was arrested lots of people are ddosing major sites on internet, imagine if governments tries to control it even more, then I suppose that even more people will try to ddosing everything...and then we can sit, and watch the 3rd world war or a civic war (whatever...), but this time, without "real" weapons, but within hacking tools...it would be sooo nice *-*
I really agree with what Anon is doing man...i don't think that government should block anysite that didnt even brake any law man...US is just doing this cause the **** came onto them...they're trying to fix what THEY did, hiding from people the truth...and the WORST part is, some guys agree with them! So bad...

Btw, I was kidding about the war part, just for you guys to know

COKid said,
To all you guys who think this is so great what Anon + etc. are doing:

These events will now supply politicians around the world added ammunition to create legislation to control more and more of the internet. You might as well forget about net neutrality if this keeps up and get ready for increased Big Brother intervention.

It might be fun to see what is happening, but we all lose in the long run, people. Governments will not tolerate this sort of thing as it affects commerce in a negative way. There's too much at stake.

Yep, Anon really did us all a big favor! (Sarcasm Sheldon, sarcasm )

Exactly, and now the Nations of the world have ammunition to do so.

negroplasty said,
anonymous FAILs. paypal's other domains are still working fine... co.uk .sg and others all still up.

Irony.

You would be right if they were targeting PayPal OUTSIDE of the US, in which they aren't in this case

InfinitiProject said,

Irony.

You would be right if they were targeting PayPal OUTSIDE of the US, in which they aren't in this case


That may be the case, but if you have an account with Paypal you can sign in on any one of these sites.

negroplasty said,
anonymous FAILs. paypal's other domains are still working fine... co.uk .sg and others all still up.

What do you expect from a bunch of clowns. Social misfits that never see the outside can only muster so much. Anyone can get on IRC and buy a bot net, these clowns are using other peoples work and claiming it as their own. There is a new Hanna Montana coming on TV Friday, they will lose interest in this attack to go watch.

negroplasty said,
oh no Paypal is down !!!! oh wait, http://www.paypal.co.uk or any other domain they have is up... ANONYMOUS FAILS!!!!

Paypal.co.uk is different than PayPal.com. If you're from the US, you can't login to the UK site and vice versa.

negroplasty said,
oh no Paypal is down !!!! oh wait, http://www.paypal.co.uk or any other domain they have is up... ANONYMOUS FAILS!!!!

They didnt failed, they didnt want to keep sites down forever...By taking them down (even for just a while) they made companies to waste their money with maintence and work-arounds to fix the problem...sooo, Anon made the companies that were against Wikileaks to waste money...objective done actually...
And btw, twitter put Anon's account down...twitter was attacked, twitter restored Anon's account...where's the fail?

fee said,

They didnt failed, they didnt want to keep sites down forever...By taking them down (even for just a while) they made companies to waste their money with maintence and work-arounds to fix the problem...sooo, Anon made the companies that were against Wikileaks to waste money...objective done actually...
And btw, twitter put Anon's account down...twitter was attacked, twitter restored Anon's account...where's the fail?

Also don't forget that Paypal released Wikileaks funds... so absolutely no fail at all!

fee said,

They didnt failed, they didnt want to keep sites down forever...By taking them down (even for just a while) they made companies to waste their money with maintence and work-arounds to fix the problem...sooo, Anon made the companies that were against Wikileaks to waste money...objective done actually...
And btw, twitter put Anon's account down...twitter was attacked, twitter restored Anon's account...where's the fail?

Yes they did fail, Paypal was down about 5 mins. As soon as the assault began I was able to log in without issue in the US. With a smart IT department these script kiddies have no chance.

Mike Chipshop said,

Also don't forget that Paypal released Wikileaks funds... so absolutely no fail at all!

They released them because they had no legal grounds to keep them.

I would have thought most companies would be better prepared for DDoS attacks these days. If a bunch of kids/hackers/whatever can bring down websites this easily, what does that say about the internet in general?

COKid said,
I would have thought most companies would be better prepared for DDoS attacks these days. If a bunch of kids/hackers/whatever can bring down websites this easily, what does that say about the internet in general?

Actually, is not 'a bunch of kids' doing that...there's a lot of people since Anon released a tool for anyone to help them. There's a LOT of people into it... And how would companies prepar themselfs to it? They don't expect tones of people mass-acessing their sites on the same time...dont think that it would have a way to avoid ddos.

COKid said,
I would have thought most companies would be better prepared for DDoS attacks these days. If a bunch of kids/hackers/whatever can bring down websites this easily, what does that say about the internet in general?

There is no way to protect against it. The amounts of data being sent in could total in the tens of gigabytes every second. If tens of thousands of computers hit your infrastructure at once, there is no feasible defence, it's simply impossible to supply enough bandwidth

Subject Delta said,

There is no way to protect against it. The amounts of data being sent in could total in the tens of gigabytes every second. If tens of thousands of computers hit your infrastructure at once, there is no feasible defence, it's simply impossible to supply enough bandwidth

Again as usual you are spouting off about things you have no idea about. Hitting the front site of a company is irrelevant and really wont spark a reaction, the longer the attack is on going the easier it is to trace. Once they start attacking infrastructure it is not difficult to block all assaulting IPs at the source. Paypal came back online very quickly after the assault began and while it was still going on, the attack was useless, of course the "attackers" claimed they stopped not that they were defeated. Please climb out of your mothers basement and get a clue, stop spilling your filth around like it is fact and you actual know what you are talking about. because it is obvious you do not.

fee said,

Actually, is not 'a bunch of kids' doing that...there's a lot of people since Anon released a tool for anyone to help them. There's a LOT of people into it... And how would companies prepar themselfs to it? They don't expect tones of people mass-acessing their sites on the same time...dont think that it would have a way to avoid ddos.

Proof?

presence06 said,

Doubt it would ever happen...

after attacking two financial/banking related companies it's not a case of if but when.

Azusa said,

after attacking two financial/banking related companies it's not a case of if but when.


But they didn't steal anything.. those "numbers" according to sources weren't real. Even MasterCard's twitter said they weren't.. Unless they were just saying that to protect themselves.. >.>

presence06 said,
But they didn't steal anything.. those "numbers" according to sources weren't real. Even MasterCard's twitter said they weren't.. Unless they were just saying that to protect themselves.. >.>

The numbers were not real, but in fact simply random generated numbers. The expiration dates also were not feasible for our time frame.

Alan Cone said,

The numbers were not real, but in fact simply random generated numbers. The expiration dates also were not feasible for our time frame.

If they were all fake, why Mastercard put the site down that fast? (I'm not saying that it was real or fake, just asking... )

presence06 said,


But they didn't steal anything.. those "numbers" according to sources weren't real. Even MasterCard's twitter said they weren't.. Unless they were just saying that to protect themselves.. >.>

It's not about theft the goal was not theft anyway but the fact still remains they attacked them who know what could have happened someone could have used it as a cover to steal something for all we know some one may have done just that.

The netcraft site http://news.netcraft.com/ has all the details from the server uptime perspective..

they have a dedicated section to domains related to wikileaks and the attacks here: http://uptime.netcraft.com/per...ports/performance/wikileaks

If you check the paypal availability from there: http://uptime.netcraft.com/per...collector=all&site=http/www.paypal.com&range=86400
you will find that the impact was minimal.. only there were some issues from the netcraft monitor located at Virginia/Rackspace.

russianmonk said,
Its kind of a pain all these comments, the page takes soooooo much longer to load when I refresh it.

I agree. Please start a new post, Mr. Cone. Enough with the updates and nearly 300 comments!

That really has me wondering if their DDoS tool is layer 7. HTTPS is very resource intensive, even with an SSL offloader, and would be a much softer spot to hit rather than just mindlessly throwing packets across the Internet.

Wow this is getting out of hand. This has to be one of the most entertaining articles and comments in quite a while.

I just joined up to the effort. Down with imperialistic/oppressive governments and any companies who comply with them!

Flawed said,
I just joined up to the effort. Down with imperialistic/oppressive governments and any companies who comply with them!

The whole world then?

I wouldn't be surprised if Twitter is next, considering they closed the account for that anonymous group.

jd100 said,
I wouldn't be surprised if Twitter is next, considering they closed the account for that anonymous group.


Wouldn't surprise me either.

And another thing, Stop calling these losers "hackers". If downloading a program and pressing a button makes one a "hacker", then playing World of Warcraft makes me a game programmer.

Eurod said,
And another thing, Stop calling these losers "hackers". If downloading a program and pressing a button makes one a "hacker", then playing World of Warcraft makes me a game programmer.

Exactly. These ADD kids will move on soon, Christmas is right around the corner.

For the people saying Wikileaks broke the law, don't know you are talking about. He wasn't arrested for Wikileaks, he was arrested for being accused of rape or something. Although I'm sure that Government is just using that as an excuse to arrest him.

Yeah and the rape accusation isn't true either, he's actually wanted for having sex without a condom which is an offense in Sweden and carries a fine of $750 or thereabouts.

Im sure publicaly releasing or most likely even only OWNING confidential files, that you dont suppose to have is totaly legal in every country, right?

This whole thing is just snowballing. They should have taken a page out of the earlier leaks like the Afgan video that showed the reporters being killed. The US and other governments should have just stood back and either done nothing or accepted the leaks and it would have blown over soon if not already.

The media and governments have made such a big deal about it, it's just started something that is snowballing and getting bigger and bigger.

I don't see anything wrong with what Wikileaks has done, they weren't the source mainstream media has done the same thing with leaked documents in the past and will continue to do so, why haven't they received the same amount of attention?

And Sarah Palin oh my gawd what a funny woman she is. Claiming Assange is unamerican and all, well done Sarah Palin have you realized yet that he isn't an American Citizen and is in fact an Australian Citizen. And our own government (Australia that is) has been absolutely shocking over how it has dealt with this whole thing.

Sigh... how about everyone in this nonsense just grow up and move on with their lives. I have family (and everyone else's family, not just mine!) to think about, and I need to send money through. Making it inconvenient for others is a waste of time and resources.

arukun14 said,
Sigh... how about everyone in this nonsense just grow up and move on with their lives. I have family (and everyone else's family, not just mine!) to think about, and I need to send money through. Making it inconvenient for others is a waste of time and resources.

Thank you!

arukun14 said,
Sigh... how about everyone in this nonsense just grow up and move on with their lives. I have family (and everyone else's family, not just mine!) to think about, and I need to send money through. Making it inconvenient for others is a waste of time and resources.

So write to MasterCard or Visa or whatever you use and tell them to stop ****ing with Wikileaks. Attacks stop. You can go in with your life.

xbamaris said,
You think that their ever going to attack Facebook? THAT would be impressive.

They took down 9 of the 13 internet root servers a while back. In other words they were over half-way to taking down the entire internet.

omnicoder said,

They took down 9 of the 13 internet root servers a while back. In other words they were half-way to taking down the entire internet.

Closest thing to a fire sale it seems.

The corrupted governments are the enemy. We the People have nothing to separate. I am amazed by the power of the corrupted system and how fast and how many strings can be pulled at once when something is not going according to plan.

Stop the meaningless comments. Wikileaks published information like any other press would do (and has done) to the public. What is wrong with that. What kind of illegal action they are telling us wikileaks is doing. Enough with the deaths of innocent civilians. Enough with the deaths of American soldiers, enough grief for the friends and families of the lost ones. Enough "We start a war to free the x,y country" All is done for the money. The System does not give a **** for our children and our families. They are all hypocrites. Support wikileaks, we have the right to know more.

=HyperViper= said,
The corrupted governments are the enemy. We the People have nothing to separate. I am amazed by the power of the corrupted system and how fast and how many strings can be pulled at once when something is not going according to plan.

Stop the meaningless comments. Wikileaks published information like any other press would do (and has done) to the public. What is wrong with that. What kind of illegal action they are telling us wikileaks is doing. Enough with the deaths of innocent civilians. Enough with the deaths of American soldiers, enough grief for the friends and families of the lost ones. Enough "We start a war to free the x,y country" All is done for the money. The System does not give a **** for our children and our families. They are all hypocrites. Support wikileaks, we have the right to know more.

So I'm guessing you are part of Anon?

=HyperViper= said,
Stop the meaningless comments. Wikileaks published information like any other press would do (and has done) to the public. What is wrong with that. What kind of illegal action they are telling us wikileaks is doing.

Incorrect. Yes, some of there stuff follows that, but they have also released information with informants names and the like. No reputable news agency would ever release that without blacking out the names and other information that could identify the people.

There's so much that they release that could be just, if only they were more careful and stopped doing **** like that..

Personally I'm against releasing the cables, as I feel in the future it will make ambassadors and other servants less likely to be "candid" when reporting information. I mean it's obvious that they have to be "civil" in public with those members from other governments they work with, but they also need to be realistic when reporting back.. The cables showed they are, generally, but it also means that those that said it have lost any bridges they were trying to build..
That being said, while I'm against it, I'm not for stopping them from releasing the cables.. Now the other classified ****, with names and the like, anything happens to one of those informants or something then I hold Wikileaks responsible, along with the person who leaked the information.. People say "It can't be that bad as the US isn't protecting the informants" .. You really think the US is gonna protect the guy who said "psst.. there's a bomb in the road over there.." or "psst.. this is the guy the Taliban left behind to keep an eye on what we do.." .. No, Taliban on the other hand will probably want to make an example..

This is as retarded as American Nazis bombing companies that pulled out of Germany in 1939.
i mean c'mon the people they're attacking are wanting to keep a clean image so that people with lots of money invest in them and yet these people who more thank likely have less than $1K in their accounts think people live Visa, Mastercard, and paypal care about their opinions?

Azusa said,
This is as retarded as American Nazis bombing companies that pulled out of Germany in 1939.
i mean c'mon the people they're attacking are wanting to keep a clean image so that people with lots of money invest in them and yet these people who more thank likely have less than $1K in their accounts think people live Visa, Mastercard, and paypal care about their opinions?

They can only try. Better than doing nothing

Aggggggggggg I have all the details but it wont connect! Damin I wanan support these guys i recckon we all should they got wikileaks there money back ffs

StevenNT said,

Working fine here.


Yeh it came back up, I guess 4chan stopped DDoSing them lol.

EDIT: They're back to targeting Visa.com

I just find it funny to imagine a typical 'geeky' 'hacker' sat in a dark basement calling himself "0\/3RL0RD" or whatever, doing this, when it's got zero to do with him and all his interweb hacker buddies. hehe. Stupid, and when it's died down, no one will care, or remember what they did. Well, no one important.

Why twitter? I mean if it's because they shut down their twitter account, why aren't they attacking Facebook too?

So the folks backing WL/Anon's actions are saying (or even suggesting) that the government(s) should give in to blackmail? I have news for you - if one target gives in to blackmail/extortion, it will be done again, and again, and again. There are two (and only two) ways of effectively dealing with blackmail/extortion attempts - arresting the would-be blackmailer/extortionist, or *eliminating* the would-be blackmailer/extortionist. Do you really want someone tracking down and *taking out* anyone even remotely connected with either WL or Assange? (And no, I am not referring to the United States government or anyone connected to it.) Juast as there are apparently homegrown anti-US terrorists, this could well create homegrown pro-US terrorists. Do you want to reap *that* whirlwind?

PGHammer said,
So the folks backing WL/Anon's actions are saying (or even suggesting) that the government(s) should give in to blackmail? I have news for you - if one target gives in to blackmail/extortion, it will be done again, and again, and again. There are two (and only two) ways of effectively dealing with blackmail/extortion attempts - arresting the would-be blackmailer/extortionist, or *eliminating* the would-be blackmailer/extortionist. Do you really want someone tracking down and *taking out* anyone even remotely connected with either WL or Assange? (And no, I am not referring to the United States government or anyone connected to it.) Juast as there are apparently homegrown anti-US terrorists, this could well create homegrown pro-US terrorists. Do you want to reap *that* whirlwind?

How can you arrest 5000 people?

treemonster said,
welcome to the first world infowar. are you a axis or an ally? or are you the swiss?

Can Swiss Cheese be an option? LOL

@KavazovAngel This is getting a bit over the top. Leaking card details is way over the line. I won't publicise where I saw it though like yourself. It's just "out there".

StevenNT said,
@KavazovAngel This is getting a bit over the top. Leaking card details is way over the line. I won't publicise where I saw it though like yourself. It's just "out there".

I looked through them to see if my roommate's card was there. Its not. That's all that matters to me.

By the way, now the place where they released the numbers is gone. The webmasters must have deleted it.

KavazovAngel said,

I looked through them to see if my roommate's card was there. Its not. That's all that matters to me.

By the way, now the place where they released the numbers is gone. The webmasters must have deleted it.

I was surprised how fast it vanished from there even if it was "fake". It has the desired effect though.

KavazovAngel said,
OMG Credit cards are being leaked.


This is getting big now.!

Yep just saw them as well I won't link their message but that's not good !! :-/

StevenNT said,

Yep just saw them as well I won't link their message but that's not good !! :-/

I copied the whole link... But won't use it. Luckily my roommate's card is not there.

This is getting way out of hand now.

WW3 is beginning?

that is what BigBro wants everyone to think. I don't think they should stop, at least not until everyone involved in censuring Assange and WikiLeaks has stopped first.
Anon actions are a response not a provocation or initiator of.... once the provocation has stopped, so will the response, is simple physics.....

Midnight Mick said,
Pointless, foolish & pathetic.

Yes, it was pointless, foolish and pathetic of MasterCard and the others, but that's why people are protesting.

Anyone feel like this is getting dull? It was fine at the start but now it just seems repetitive. Wikileaks just needs to end so everyone can get on with their merry lives.

Morisato said,
Anyone feel like this is getting dull? It was fine at the start but now it just seems repetitive. Wikileaks just needs to end so everyone can get on with their merry lives.

Ignorance is bliss isn't it?

Actually I say good for them. This has to do with Governments trying to cover up their own corruption. The US is no longer any better than China in terms of rights. And yes I am an American.

jd100 said,
Actually I say good for them. This has to do with Governments trying to cover up their own corruption. The US is no longer any better than China in terms of rights. And yes I am an American.

Really?!!! Where?...in what cable have you read about corruption. you have got to be kidding me.

The Grasshopper said,

Really?!!! Where?...in what cable have you read about corruption. you have got to be kidding me.

I read it on my ethernet cable.

hotdog963al said,
This is all they are capable of. :3

Maybe I should by their group a book for christmas.

"Hacking for Dummies"

Arron said,
DDoS'ing is pretty useless against top sites such as these. Try real hacking anonymous.

Seems to be more about the message.

Arron said,
DDoS'ing is pretty useless against top sites such as these. Try real hacking anonymous.

That's what the government is doing to WikiLeaks, DDOS it. And the operation is called 'payback' so yeah.

While it might be immature, it is necessary. What they are doing is making sure enough press jumps on the story, thus raising public knowledge on what is going on. I fully support their actions. As long as nobody is harmed, fighting fire with fire is needed here. Anyone saying they should just make their opinion known in an other way should realize that Anon doesn't have paper with fancy government headers, or the political pressure to express their views. And you should realize that the majority of people agree with their point of view. The corrupt governments are the criminals here, not Anon or the people of Wikileaks.

Yeah right. Like there aren't completely legal ways to protest, but oh, it's easier to click some buttons.

These jerkwads are going to be arrested sooner or later.

There are better ways to protest than to piss off a bunch of guys in Visa's IT department. I doubt the board of Visa will even hear about this.

cyber-terrorism... how is this any better than what they claimed to fight against? bring down services required by most of the general public?

theclueless said,
cyber-terrorism... how is this any better than what they claimed to fight against? bring down services required by most of the general public?

Because they fight for Good?

Frankenchrist said,
Tiny impact, as they're not targeting the MC/VISA transaction servers, just their corporate website.

Yeah, I don't understand that either.

Frankenchrist said,
Tiny impact, as they're not targeting the MC/VISA transaction servers, just their corporate website.

Visa and Mastercard have noticed them which means they won. Have you seen how much bbc and ccn have been covering these attacks?

If by winning you simply mean getting some temporary attention for their little group, then you are correct. In terms of any real impact: Nada. Pretty hollow victory, if you ask me.

Sorry, if this is really all they can do, I'm not impressed in the least.

Frankenchrist said,
Tiny impact, as they're not targeting the MC/VISA transaction servers, just their corporate website.

They don't want to target the transaction servers.

COKid said,
If by winning you simply mean getting some temporary attention for their little group, then you are correct. In terms of any real impact: Nada.

Sorry, if this is really all they can do, I'm not impressed in the least.


Are you an executive at Mastercard or Visa? No? Then I don't care.

Do you actualy think real trasaction servers are connected to internet?! I dont belive they are, because it would be big security risk...

SoLoR1 said,
Do you actualy think real trasaction servers are connected to internet?! I dont belive they are, because it would be big security risk...
All transactions are managed by mainframes and I highly doubt they'd be connected to the internet.

protocol7 said,
Well, most of these "activists" probably aren't even old enough to get a credit card.
they're not idiots, though i think a lot of times they act first and look for proof later. clearly they were not targeting the transaction servers. maybe that could not because they are inside of vlans/frame relay networks only accessible to participating payment processors who provide public gateways to merchants. and DDoSing gateways is an unfair attack on payment processors.

COKid said,
If by winning you simply mean getting some temporary attention for their little group, then you are correct. In terms of any real impact: Nada. Pretty hollow victory, if you ask me.

Sorry, if this is really all they can do, I'm not impressed in the least.

Examine what the ISP bill would be by getting hammered for hours on end with 10 gigabits + of data flooding to your servers, then come back and tell me you still don't think they are having an effect.

Subject Delta said,

Examine what the ISP bill would be by getting hammered for hours on end with 10 gigabits + of data flooding to your servers, then come back and tell me you still don't think they are having an effect.

I would think that any intelligent ISP would look at the fact that the attacks are not part of their normal business and wouldn't bill the company for the traffic during the attack.

roadwarrior said,

I would think that any intelligent ISP would look at the fact that the attacks are not part of their normal business and wouldn't bill the company for the traffic during the attack.

No corporate ISP would absorb that kind of cost

Mike Chipshop said,

Within the half hour me thinks.

I wouldn't do facebook. that ****es off too many average joes. may not be good for their PR.

neufuse said,
how long until they DDoS facebook? *rollseyes*

I'm confused why they would consider doing such a thing? Facebook is among one of the more commonly used tools to spread information. In a fight against censorship, what part of DDoSing Facebook makes sense?

dead.cell said,

I'm confused why they would consider doing such a thing? Facebook is among one of the more commonly used tools to spread information. In a fight against censorship, what part of DDoSing Facebook makes sense?

because they are a bunch of cry babies? anyone that does something to stop their actions they seem to go against, and facebook suspended their accounts, so it seems like for them thats enough reason to DDoS them

neufuse said,

because they are a bunch of cry babies? anyone that does something to stop their actions they seem to go against, and facebook suspended their accounts, so it seems like for them thats enough reason to DDoS them

Why does that make them cry babies?
They're not babies and they're certainly not crying.

dead.cell said,

I'm confused why they would consider doing such a thing? Facebook is among one of the more commonly used tools to spread information. In a fight against censorship, what part of DDoSing Facebook makes sense?

I only thought they would because Facebook deleted their page and you know what normal happens next. They attacked Twitter after it deleted their account

mulligan2k said,
anybody else struggling to get the bbc.co.uk site to load? coincidence or related?

Wow yeah that is taking ages to load. At least 30 seconds. Maybe it's everyone looking for the reason why Visa doesn't work.

Visa is still down.

mulligan2k said,
anybody else struggling to get the bbc.co.uk site to load? coincidence or related?

BBC.co.uk is down here.

mulligan2k said,
anybody else struggling to get the bbc.co.uk site to load? coincidence or related?

BBC Site appears fine from where I am, could be something to do with global routing

1. wikileaks wasn't too big of deal to start with. the value of info leaked is very questionable. people already know politic a very sinful corruptive business. now with their founder in jail, site shut down, media coverage etc(without due process), those who don't care will at least know about the news and may care to read what's leaked. I say wikileaks win this round.
2. hackers attacking these website is a complete separate thing. these people maybe just trying to use the incident to make names for themselves who knowns but is doing wikileaks' favor. wikileaks win.

now, wikileaks org, it's founder may or may not be ethical but I'd say freedom of speech has precedence over government secrecy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...This_Man_May_Die_mirror.jpg

TO: AskVisaUSA@visa.com; Consumer_Inquiries@MasterCard.com

Questions:
1. Why can I use Mastercard & Visa to donate to the Ku Klux Klan, but not to Wikileaks?
2. Why have you become a political organization?
...3. Who are you to decide who has the right to use their money?
4. If you can deny money to a LEG...AL organisation like wikileaks.org why don't you deny money to KKK and porn sites with child ...abuse???
SHAME ON YOU!!!

Antraxek said,
TO: AskVisaUSA@visa.com; Consumer_Inquiries@MasterCard.com

Questions:
1. Why can I use Mastercard & Visa to donate to the Ku Klux Klan, but not to Wikileaks?
2. Why have you become a political organization?
...3. Who are you to decide who has the right to use their money?
4. If you can deny money to a LEG...AL organisation like wikileaks.org why don't you deny money to KKK and porn sites with child ...abuse???
SHAME ON YOU!!!

Good idea.

Antraxek said,
4. If you can deny money to a LEG...AL organisation like wikileaks.org why don't you deny money to KKK and porn sites with child ...abuse???
SHAME ON YOU!!!

Visa, Mastercard, and PayPal routinely shut down payments to web sites that contain what they deem objectional material (yes, including hate groups and porn sites). Hell, I know of some sites that had to remove pictures that were perfectly legal (pictures of a model on their biography page fully clothed as a teenager or child), just because they were on the same site as the nude photos of the model.

people complain these companies are just giving in to the us government but honestly what else can they do? go against the government and pay the price? not for some small organization.

LMerza said,
people complain these companies are just giving in to the us government but honestly what else can they do? go against the government and pay the price? not for some small organization.

And what price would that be exactly? Going back to business as usual?

LMerza said,
people complain these companies are just giving in to the us government but honestly what else can they do? go against the government and pay the price? not for some small organization.

Erm... Visa and Mastercard are small organizations now? When did this happen and why didn't anybody give me the memo?

vaximily said,

Erm... Visa and Mastercard are small organizations now? When did this happen and why didn't anybody give me the memo?

i meant wikileaks. These credit card companies arent going to go against the us government just for some small organization in their eyes.

iamawesomewicked said,

And what price would that be exactly? Going back to business as usual?

so as a corporation, if the US government told you to do something you would just not listen? maybe nothing will happen but maybe something will, ie thorough audits, and as i said why would a huge organization like these credit card companies care to risk anything for some small organization

LMerza said,

i meant wikileaks. These credit card companies arent going to go against the us government just for some small organization in their eyes.


so as a corporation, if the US government told you to do something you would just not listen? maybe nothing will happen but maybe something will, ie thorough audits, and as i said why would a huge organization like these credit card companies care to risk anything for some small organization

Exactly. They didn't go against the Government, but that's why people [Anon] are angry.
You and I would probably have done exactly what our Governments told us to do. But that's exactly the problem.

leo221 said,
btw, they are really good if amazon and paypal go down.

They aren't good, it's just that there may a lot of people DDOSing.

leo221 said,
I went out to lunch, used cash instead of plastic knowing today is not a plastic friendly day.

Good for you? This doesn't affect being able to pay with plastic...

leo221 said,
I went out to lunch, used cash instead of plastic knowing today is not a plastic friendly day.

Card payment systems are still up AFAIK, it's just the website that's down.

neo158 said,

Card payment systems are still up AFAIK, it's just the website that's down.

i know but i still like to use cash.

How easy it is to cheer Anon from the sidelines. When he(she)/they are charged with a crime, you'll just slither back under your rock and pretend it never happened.

COKid said,
How easy it is to cheer Anon from the sidelines. When he(she)/they are charged with a crime, you'll just slither back under your rock and pretend it never happened.


They took down the US Gov copyright site with no repercussions, don't hold your breath on them being charged.

COKid said,
How easy it is to cheer Anon from the sidelines. When he(she)/they are charged with a crime, you'll just slither back under your rock and pretend it never happened.

Ah, I knew I could rely on you to be stupid enough to invoke the slippery slope argument

este said,
Update #2: If you're in the US and wanting to use Visa.com, you can visit http://usa.visa.com/, which appears to use a different provider.

way to get nothing accomplished by taking down visa.com


You'll find that usa.visa.com is getting quite slow too, so it must be getting targeted as well.

este said,
Update #2: If you're in the US and wanting to use Visa.com, you can visit http://usa.visa.com/, which appears to use a different provider.

way to get nothing accomplished by taking down visa.com


How many average web users that use The Internet Explorer and click on 'the website bar' are going to explicitly type in an address including a subdomain with guidance?

/- Razorfold said,

You'll find that usa.visa.com is getting quite slow too, so it must be getting targeted as well.

Loads quickly for me.

spenser.d said,
Wow, these guys are immature. Its like watching little children do dumb **** to 'get back' at their parents.

Except this has nothing to do with family relationships.

spenser.d said,
Wow, these guys are immature. Its like watching little children do dumb **** to 'get back' at their parents.

this is protesting but in the 21st century

Setnom said,

Except this has nothing to do with family relationships.

You completely missed the comparison.

I fully agree spenser, "Anon" is no better than the companies they are attacking, except they are handling it in a completely immature way.

mollick2 said,

this is protesting but in the 21st century

No, protesting does not stop people who do not support the protest from accessing the services being protested. DDOSing stops everyone from accessing the web site being attacked. Two completely different things, the fact that you compare DDOSing to protesting shows that you have no clue what either one of them are.

Nagisan said,
No, protesting does not stop people who do not support the protest from accessing the services being protested.

read that back and tell me if you actual believe that absurd sentence!

Mike Chipshop said,

read that back and tell me if you actual believe that absurd sentence!
Sounds fine to me, all protesting does is allow people to publicly show they do not support a business, people can still use the business just fine without issue when protesting is going on (assuming it is legal protesting), DDOSing is not the same as it stops everyone from accessing the website.

Nagisan said,
You completely missed the comparison.

I fully agree spenser, "Anon" is no better than the companies they are attacking, except they are handling it in a completely immature way.


I agree. This won't change a thing. Yes, the world now know their opinion, but that could've been covered with a website and a message too.

spenser.d said,
Wow, these guys are immature. Its like watching little children do dumb **** to 'get back' at their parents.

I was just going to say how childish this is but you took the words right out of my mouth.

mollick2 said,

this is protesting but in the 21st century

Exactly, also to the dumb foke who say it doesn't stop the service. If airplane crew strike no planes = lost revenue.

Paypal, mastercard and Visa are arseholes just pulling accounts because they don't want to be associated to them. What about giving them a call and allowing them to close it within say one month ? No because then they couldn't just take the money.

Gaffney said,

Exactly, also to the dumb foke who say it doesn't stop the service. If airplane crew strike no planes = lost revenue.

Paypal, mastercard and Visa are arseholes just pulling accounts because they don't want to be associated to them. What about giving them a call and allowing them to close it within say one month ? No because then they couldn't just take the money.

Last I checked, Anon do not work for MasterCard or Visa, therefore it is not a strike. Go look up the difference between a strike and a protest before calling someone dumb right before comparing a strike to a protest as if they were the same.

So you're right, if an airplane crew go on strike, no planes fly, they lose revenue. If an airplane crew is protesting their airline, they are still working and not going on strike.

Gaffney said,

Exactly, also to the dumb foke who say it doesn't stop the service. If airplane crew strike no planes = lost revenue.

Well yeah, a strike is a form of protest. This is more like a group of people outside a shop physically stopping people from entering. What anon is doing is illegal there is no doubt about that. I doubt anon cares either.

I also don't think this costs Visa as much money as some people are implying. If the website is down you come back later, you don't close your account and go to a different company.


Nagisan said,
No, protesting does not stop people who do not support the protest from accessing the services being protested. DDOSing stops everyone from accessing the web site being attacked. Two completely different things, the fact that you compare DDOSing to protesting shows that you have no clue what either one of them are.

you sir are mistaken, while yes it is illegal to block access from a service with a protest that doesn't mean it's any less of a protest. in a long ago time thats what protesters did. might i actually quote merriam-webster in that a protest is " to make a statement or gesture in objection to". DDoSing a visa, mastercard and paypal are a form of protest, regardless of it's legality. a protest doesn't have to use picket lines, rallys, and sit-ins these days you know.

mollick2 said,

you sir are mistaken, while yes it is illegal to block access from a service with a protest that doesn't mean it's any less of a protest. in a long ago time thats what protesters did. might i actually quote merriam-webster in that a protest is " to make a statement or gesture in objection to". DDoSing a visa, mastercard and paypal are a form of protest, regardless of it's legality. a protest doesn't have to use picket lines, rallys, and sit-ins these days you know.

+1. at least someone gets it.


Sounds fine to me, all protesting does is allow people to publicly show they do not support a business, people can still use the business just fine without issue when protesting is going on (assuming it is legal protesting), DDOSing is not the same as it stops everyone from accessing the website.

So you're telling me for instance, the current student rallies in London, are they not aimed to heighten awareness by bringing a certain amount of disruption to London and it's everyday peoples?

Interestingly enough, and perhaps a poor move by the Anon movement, one can quickly check to see who all this has been retweeted by, likely making them suspects of aiding DDoS attacks, which are illegal.

They're doing nothing more than Neowin is doing by reporting it. No one is going to knock on Neowin's door just for putting the message out there and it isn't sufficient evidence to investigate anyone closely enough to prove anything.

What a crummy group of individuals.......I don't care what you do or don't support, illegally attacking a business is wrong, it makes you no better than the business itself. So good job "Anon", you lame group of individuals are no better than MasterCard/Visa.

Nagisan said,
What a crummy group of individuals.......I don't care what you do or don't support, illegally attacking a business is wrong, it makes you no better than the business itself. So good job "Anon", you lame group of individuals are no better than MasterCard/Visa.

If they don't want to be attacked then they shouldn't give in to the demands of politicians who lie about being able to take legal action against affiliates of a site that has broken no laws.

omnicoder said,

If they don't want to be attacked then they shouldn't give in to the demands of politicians who lie about being able to take legal action against affiliates of a site that has broken no laws.
So instead they should bend over to the demands of cyber criminals telling them not to listen to politicians? That makes a lot of sense....

Honestly, your statement basically says "They should do as a bunch of criminals say, otherwise they will be attacked.", would you also support a murderer who told you not to tell the police of a murder you saw him commit because the justice system might give him the death penalty?

Honestly, name one GOOD reason why a business should give in to the demands of "Anon" instead of the demands of politicians. Doesn't that make "Anon" any better than the "corrupt" politicians you are whining about.

omnicoder said,

If they don't want to be attacked then they shouldn't give in to the demands of politicians who lie about being able to take legal action against affiliates of a site that has broken no laws.

Jesus H. C**** can you quit it with your NON FACTUAL attacks at these companies. Just because you think they're giving into these invisible demands by the government doesn't mean they are. Guess what I as a company owner would NOT want to be associated with WikiLeaks regardless of what my personal view is on them if I support them or not.

Edrick Smith said,

Jesus christ can you quit it with your NON FACTUAL attacks at these companies. Just because you think they're giving into these invisible demands by the government doesn't mean they are. Guess what I as a company owner would NOT want to be associated with WikiLeaks regardless of what my personal view is on them if I support them or not.


If not wanting to be associated was their reasoning than that would be fine but the fact that they are giving in to politicians who are making blatant lies about 'repercussions' to aiding a company that hasn't broken any laws is stupid. And the government attacks aren't invisible, various high officials have been harassing both Assange with death threats and companies with notices to cease which you can all find on BBC or CNN.

@Nagisan:
Total straw-man there. I never said any such thing. They shouldn't give in to anyone

Edrick Smith said,

Jesus H. C**** can you quit it with your NON FACTUAL attacks at these companies. Just because you think they're giving into these invisible demands by the government doesn't mean they are. Guess what I as a company owner would NOT want to be associated with WikiLeaks regardless of what my personal view is on them if I support them or not.

Guess you haven't been reading the news much have you?

Amazon said they received a letter from the state department asking them to remove wikileaks from their cloud servers. Paypal also received a letter from the state department.

omnicoder said,

If not wanting to be associated was their reasoning than that would be fine but the fact that they are giving in to politicians who are making blatant lies about 'repercussions' to aiding a company that hasn't broken any laws is stupid.

@Nagisan:
Total straw-man there. I never said any such thing. They shouldn't give in to anyone

There are no facts saying MasterCard and Visa gave in to demands from the government, so where do you get "the fact that they are giving in to politicians blah blah blah" from?

You say they shouldn't give in to anyone, does that mean it's okay for Anon to attack them because they supposedly gave in to politicians? Anon has NO right to attack them no matter the reason, therefore Anon is no better than the politicians they are fighting against.

Also, you said "They shouldn't give in if they don't want to be attacked" that is basically saying Anon is demanding they don't give in, with a DDOS attack being the threat. Call it straw-man all you want, you stated that they shouldn't give in if they didn't want to be attacked, meaning the thought of being attacked was a threat, meaning they should have given into that threat to be safe from an attack. Saying they shouldn't give in to politicians would mean that they should give in to Anon who is demanding they don't give in otherwise they risk being attacked, which is why I said what I did in my first response to you.

/- Razorfold said,

Guess you haven't been reading the news much have you?
Amazon said they received a letter from the state department asking them to remove wikileaks from their cloud servers. Paypal also received a letter from the state department. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11945875

Yes, and from what I have heard so far, MasterCard and Visa have not released any information saying they were asked to stop supporting Wikileaks, meaning "Anon" is attacking them with no factual basis that says they stopped supporting wikileaks because the government asked them to.

Nagisan said,
What a crummy group of individuals.......I don't care what you do or don't support, illegally attacking a business is wrong, it makes you no better than the business itself. So good job "Anon", you lame group of individuals are no better than MasterCard/Visa.

I agree with you 100%. It's a shame that there are a group of individuals such as flexkeyboard that support this kind of illegal activity and will criticize and harass innocent individuals such as our self's if we dare speak out against this morally wrongful criminal activity.

Yes, and from what I have heard so far, MasterCard and Visa have not released any information saying they were asked to stop supporting Wikileaks, meaning "Anon" is attacking them with no factual basis that says they stopped supporting wikileaks because the government asked them to.
Hey I think this thing is pretty childish too, but what the government did to wikileaks is also quite immature. Yes you can claim that there is no proof that it was them behind the DDoS attacks etc..but lets think about it for a second. Who would do it?:

- China? Nope, none of the cables really implicates them on anything..but if wikileaks did say bad things about China, it would just be blocked by the great firewall. So China has nothing to gain from doing this.
- Anon / 4chan / Ebaumsworld? Why? They're about as anti-authority as you can get...quite unlike them to target wikileaks.
- Other governments? Same thing like China..why? They stand to lose nothing from this.
- A bunch of patriotic Americans? Yeh ok, I highly doubt that the average American even knows what DDoS / LOIC is. Let alone 1000+ of them..

So that just really leaves one country / government. The US. They stand to lose the most if the information goes out, they have the capabilities to launch a DDoS for days (I'm pretty sure most ISPs will block you temporarily if you tried to shove that many packets through), and I wouldn't put it past them.

Either way, this whole thing is quite childish. And nor do I understand the point of targeting Visa / mastercard's website...why would anyone even go on them? Most people get their credit cards through banks / other companies, so they won't be affected by it...and all the payment servers are up and running perfectly.

/- Razorfold said,
Yes you can claim that there is no proof that it was them behind the DDoS attacks etc..but lets think about it for a second. Who would do it?:
What? The US is not behind the mastercard and visa DDOS attacks, where did you come up with that? We are talking about whether or not the government pressured MasterCard/Visa into stopping payments to wikileaks, as there is no proof that the government did so, Anon is DDOSing them without any proof. Nowhere in any of my comments have I been talking about Wikileaks being DDOSed....

Nagisan said,
What? The US is not behind the mastercard and visa DDOS attacks, where did you come up with that? We are talking about whether or not the government pressured MasterCard/Visa into stopping payments to wikileaks, as there is no proof that the government did so, Anon is DDOSing them without any proof.
I was talking about the US DDoSing Wikileaks...

I mean I did say "but what the government did to wikileaks is also quite immature" right before that sentence..

Nagisan said,
What? The US is not behind the mastercard and visa DDOS attacks, where did you come up with that? We are talking about whether or not the government pressured MasterCard/Visa into stopping payments to wikileaks, as there is no proof that the government did so, Anon is DDOSing them without any proof. Nowhere in any of my comments have I been talking about Wikileaks being DDOSed....

Fark can't edit my post..but also

I can donate to the KKK and tons of other hate organizations around the world using my Visa and Mastercard (or through Paypal)...and hate organizations are illegal, in most countries anyways. Yet Visa/MC/Paypal have no objection. But Wikileaks (which isn't really illegal since they didn't do the actual leaking..just the posting) is suddenly on their "bad" list? Why?

/- Razorfold said,
I was talking about the US DDoSing Wikileaks...

I mean I did say "but what the government did to wikileaks is also quite immature" right before that sentence..

I know, I was in a hurry earlier and misunderstood your post, I was reading it as "Yes you can claim that there is no proof that it was them behind the DDoS attacks etc..but lets think about it for a second. Who would do it?:" being a direct response to what I said about "Anon' having no proof that MasterCard and Visa gave in to the government.....missed your "what the government did to wikileaks" statement all together.

Nagisan said,
What a crummy group of individuals.......I don't care what you do or don't support, illegally attacking a business is wrong, it makes you no better than the business itself. So good job "Anon", you lame group of individuals are no better than MasterCard/Visa.

And a business bending over and allowing itself to be shafted by government pressure to the detriment of its customers is any better?

/- Razorfold said,
Guess you haven't been reading the news much have you?

Amazon said they received a letter from the state department asking them to remove wikileaks from their cloud servers. Paypal also received a letter from the state department.

I guess as usual per your other topics you don't have your facts straight.


"The US government did not write to PayPal requesting any action regarding WikiLeaks. Not true," US State Department spokesman Philip Crowley said on the microblogging site Twitter.
PayPal spokesman Marc Jaugey clarified to AFP that "based on the American government's position and in no way based on a letter directly addressed to PayPal the team that manages PayPal account general usage regulations froze the WikiLeaks account."
"This is a freeze, not a confiscation," the French spokesman said, adding that the freeze will last 180 days at most. If no legal ruling says that WikiLeaks is illegal, the account will be reactivated, Jaugey said.
The US and other governments have said that the disclosure of the leaked diplomatic cables breaks the law of their respective countries.

Subject Delta said,

And a business bending over and allowing itself to be shafted by government pressure to the detriment of its customers is any better?
No, but that is exactly my point.....they shouldn't have bent over for the government and they shouldn't have to bend over for "Anon"'s demands to prevent attack either.

I guess as usual per your other topics you don't have your facts straight.

Other topics? I like how you're turning this against me.

I guess news sites were wrong then? Or the state department is lying...choose one.

Also if those companies are so hesitant to get bad press, why did Amazon sell a pedophile book on their website for so many days, and refused to take it down. Why can I send a donation to hate groups like the KKK using my Paypal account or my Visa credit card?

You're telling me that Wikileaks is just as bad as hate groups, when what they're doing isn't even illegal?

Nagisan said,
So instead they should bend over to the demands of cyber criminals telling them not to listen to politicians? That makes a lot of sense....

Honestly, your statement basically says "They should do as a bunch of criminals say, otherwise they will be attacked.", would you also support a murderer who told you not to tell the police of a murder you saw him commit because the justice system might give him the death penalty?

Honestly, name one GOOD reason why a business should give in to the demands of "Anon" instead of the demands of politicians. Doesn't that make "Anon" any better than the "corrupt" politicians you are whining about.

I got one. People voluntarily give their PC to Anon to cause this to happen, the same people who determine whether or not they want to use such company's services. Wasn't Amazon who stated they didn't want to be tied to Wikileaks for the sole reason of public affairs and quickly changed their reasoning to the ToS. Public has more pulls and Anon's is basically showing that we the people are not happy at what they're doing. It proves once again that the Government is above the law and is the same type of people who force company's out of business or to sell which is what Wikileaks was trying to show that everyone should be accountable for their actions. flame as you will

Nagisan said,
What a crummy group of individuals.......I don't care what you do or don't support, illegally attacking a business is wrong, it makes you no better than the business itself. So good job "Anon", you lame group of individuals are no better than MasterCard/Visa.

Just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, and just because something is legal doesn't necessarily mean it's right.

Edrick Smith said,

I guess as usual per your other topics you don't have your facts straight.


So I guess your quote means that Paypal decided against the will of its users that WikiLeaks is guilty until proven otherwise, right? Just trying to set a baseline here.

Victor V. said,

So I guess your quote means that Paypal decided against the will of its users that WikiLeaks is guilty until proven otherwise, right? Just trying to set a baseline here.

It amazes me, releasing classified information is ILLEGAL.

willdev said,
Doing it at the wrong time tbh, its 9pm in the UK. If they bring it down, not much impact for the UK

The US is bigger than the UK...

Tom W said,

Sure but Europe is bigger than the US so I agree it's a bad time.

AND CHINA IS BIGGER THAN ALL OF YOU MWUHAHAHAHA.

willdev said,
Doing it at the wrong time tbh, its 9pm in the UK. If they bring it down, not much impact for the UK

Who said they were targeting UK users...?

While I can't get to visa.com, visa.co.uk appears to be working just fine.

Tom W said,

Sure but Europe is bigger than the US so I agree it's a bad time.

Do we really need to get in a discussion about the rotation of the Earth, how time works, and so forth?

I'm sure European users still wish to use Visa services in the evening. It's the website, not the payment system, after all.

Kirkburn said,
I'm sure European users still wish to use Visa services in the evening. It's the website, not the payment system, after all.

Indeed. How am I going to pay for Christmas presents on Amazon.co.uk on my debit card if Visa is offline?

Tom W said,

Sure but Europe is bigger than the US so I agree it's a bad time.

Technically you are correct based on the Euro value last year compared to the dollar and comparing the GDP between the EU and the USA. (However the difference between the entire EU and the USA is rather small and something that the strength of the Euro/Dollar can literally flip on a monthly basis.)

The key is the finanical heart of the world is still in the USA, and if you watched the past 4 years where the US messed up rather badly, it cascaded crushing the rest of the world markets as well.

Also the GDP is no longer a good indicator for financial strength as we move more into the information age. The USA doesn't make much anymore, but they do buy A LOT, and hence why Visa and Mastercard attacks for USA business hours would be the largest impact and the best times to hit the institutions.

Brody McKee said,

News is news!

Theyre doing it where itll impact people that this whole wikileaks thing concerns..mainly americans

Meph said,

Indeed. How am I going to pay for Christmas presents on Amazon.co.uk on my debit card if Visa is offline?
Well you wouldnt have this issue cause its the site thats down, not the card functions. You can still use your credit card.

thenetavenger said,

Technically you are correct based on the Euro value last year compared to the dollar and comparing the GDP between the EU and the USA. (However the difference between the entire EU and the USA is rather small and something that the strength of the Euro/Dollar can literally flip on a monthly basis.)

The key is the finanical heart of the world is still in the USA, and if you watched the past 4 years where the US messed up rather badly, it cascaded crushing the rest of the world markets as well.

Also the GDP is no longer a good indicator for financial strength as we move more into the information age. The USA doesn't make much anymore, but they do buy A LOT, and hence why Visa and Mastercard attacks for USA business hours would be the largest impact and the best times to hit the institutions.

When the United States sneezes, the World catches a cold.

dead.cell said,

Do we really need to get in a discussion about the rotation of the Earth, how time works, and so forth?

yes

It is vitally important to our survival

DClark said,

AND CHINA IS BIGGER THAN ALL OF YOU MWUHAHAHAHA.

But who in China uses Paypal or Visa,etc. They have a QQ, PP for all those things..

AnonD said,

But who in China uses Paypal or Visa,etc. They have a QQ, PP for all those things..

Gold Farmers use Visa Business