Weekend Poll: Would no WP7 to WP8 upgrade path kill Windows Phone?

Hey guys, while it may be Sunday it's not too late to enjoy the rest of your weekend. 

While there still hasn't been any confirmation from Microsoft, recent rumors seem to indicate that there will be no path for people with current Windows Phone devices, running WP7.5 "Mango" or "Tango", who wish to upgrade to the upcoming major Windows Phone 8 "Apollo" release. This decision would obviously be a big blow for current Windows Phone users, especially those who just recently bought the Nokia Lumia 900, but just how big of a blow?

Well that's what we're asking you guys this week. If Microsoft decides to offer no Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8 upgrade path, will this kill the platform? Or will this simply be the next generation of Windows Phone, allowing Microsoft to work from a clean slate and implement features that would only work on more powerful devices?

Place your votes in the poll below and, as always, leave your comments about the matter as well.

Poll

Would no WP7 to WP8 upgrade path kill the Windows Phone platform?

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It won't kill WP, but it will slow it down. Fortunately, by the time Windows Phone 8 is released, WP7.5 will have over 100,000 apps, so it'll remain perfectly usable. It'll also probably mean a lot of first and second gen Windows Phones will get gifted to family members.

Ultimately, we don't know if Apollo is WP8. WP7 could very well still get another major update with increased functionality even if it isn't WP8.

I was going to buy a Lumia 800 outright today but until they give a clear answer as to an upgrade or not, I will continue to use my windows mobile 6.5.

I'll be disappointed if there's no upgrade but I don't think it'll kill the platform. It will anger a lot of techy WP users including me, but there's still a huge market of customers to capture running Android and iOS. Non techy Android users don't seem to be fussed about the lack of updates. To most people updates just aren't important

Correct me if I'm wrong, but WP7 having no upgrade to WP8 is pure rumour, and has about as much factual base as me claiming that all iPhones won't upgrade to version 6 of iOS or that all current Android phone won't be upgradable to Andorid 5

For some advice:

People who don't buy a Windows Phone device based on this speculation shouldn't buy any phone yet... wait till iOS 6 / Android 5 / WP8 is released, then worry whether you'll get iOS 7 / Android 6 / WP9 and consequently delay once again.

I love my WM7.5 phone on verizon it's the trophy. I work in IT and support all phones but spend my money on Windows Mobile. I'm ok with not getting an upgrade to wm8 because the trophy is under powered anyways. I want them to both work 110% together hardware and software. With a 1.5 to 2 year hardware life and mobile equipment life cycle it's no big deal to upgrade device and OS at the same time. It's not like a PC where I might want to keep the hardware for 5 to 7 years but upgrade the software. Everything including battery life is needed to run a higher demand OS.

Windows 8 with WM7 with Zune, Xbox, Skydrive, Netflix, Hulu....Kinect...Office 365 all make for a happy life of technology. W8 Tablets will complete the circle.

It's gonna kill my interest anyway... after reading what neowin has to say, all of you make very valid points. I'll most likely go back to android or even apple when my hardware upgrade comes availible

Those that think "this is the right time to do this" beause of the realitively low user count are really short sighted. The majority, I'm assuming of course due to my own experience, are people who are passionate about the new Windows Phone OS for some reason or another. To simply screw those early adopters who chose to show support because there aren't many of them is a really bad idea. Those users are the users who will evangelize the OS.

I bought a Titan to finally ditch iPhone once 7.5 showed real promise. I was waiting to get out of countract to get onto a windows phone and jumped as soon as the titan was released. I love the OS but recognize the shortcommings. I'm committed to the OS but not blindly. If they choose to not allow me and my wife to upgrade our curent phones to the new OS they better deliever big on WP8. If I find myself left behind by MS and WP8 is jsut another small step in the right direction... I'm going to take us both back to iPhones (sorry android isn't better at all). I'll wait until MS gets their proverbial sh*t together before going back since it would start seeming to be a sinking ship and that isn't the type of platform I want to commit to.

MrHumpty said,
Those that think "this is the right time to do this" beause of the realitively low user count are really short sighted. The majority, I'm assuming of course due to my own experience, are people who are passionate about the new Windows Phone OS for some reason or another. To simply screw those early adopters who chose to show support because there aren't many of them is a really bad idea. Those users are the users who will evangelize the OS.

I bought a Titan to finally ditch iPhone once 7.5 showed real promise. I was waiting to get out of countract to get onto a windows phone and jumped as soon as the titan was released. I love the OS but recognize the shortcommings. I'm committed to the OS but not blindly. If they choose to not allow me and my wife to upgrade our curent phones to the new OS they better deliever big on WP8. If I find myself left behind by MS and WP8 is jsut another small step in the right direction... I'm going to take us both back to iPhones (sorry android isn't better at all). I'll wait until MS gets their proverbial sh*t together before going back since it would start seeming to be a sinking ship and that isn't the type of platform I want to commit to.


+1000.

If Microsoft doesn't upgrade the Lumia 900 to WP8, I will probably go back to Android, despite being a die-hard WP7 fan. There simply us no reasonable explanation to not upgrade a phone that will be only 6 months old when WP8 is releases. Especially when both your competitors are doing that.

I don't know why everyone is getting their panties in a twist. Apple introduces Siri and forces everyone to upgrade to a new phone (because faster hardware is needed). People use the "I have a two contract so I should get the upgrade" excuse! The two year contract is between you and your carrier because you didn't want to pay full price for your phone. At anytime you can upgrade your phone while in contract without discounts. If Microsoft bring Windows Phone 8 to older devices then great, but it's a brand new OS (not just a feature upgrade like Apple). Maybe the OS is optimized to run on dual core only, or has a new set of hardware requirements; nobody knows! Either way people just want to complain because they aren't given the moon. If it's that important to have WP8 then wait until its officially released. If you are mad that you bought a WP7 and are in a contract that is also your problem; Microsoft not once officially stated there is an upgrade path. Im so tired of these articles written to start whining debates.

I had a iPod Touch 2G that I sold off when iOS 4.0 was released as more and more Apps were incompatible with this Hardware. I then had a Nexus One and was disappointed when Google decided not to update this to ICS. I briefly had an Xperia X10 which received Gingerbread everywhere except the USA (Thanks to ATT). I have now grown tired of expecting any software updates for any Smartphone by any Vendor.

I personally dont think too many people will be unhappy about it. Microsoft and Nokia are in it for the long haul. Windows Phone is still in its 'gathering interest stage' the big boom will undoubtedly come with Windows 8. Thats when the game will change. Even if Microsoft make a few of the thousands IMO non-worried customers angry, i believe the real flood of new interest for those seeking the best technology out there, will overshadow and even enthusiate the early adopters.

It goes beyond the OS, its the ecosystem. My Lumia 800 has Xbox live sync, full Microsoft Office 365 sync on Windows 7, Skydrive 25gig online storage and sharing, integrated social networking all in one place, with integrated uploading of status, pictures, video updates to multiple social networks with one go. Not to mention Nokia Maps with free lifetime navigation for walk and drive, Nokia Music Store with close to 20 million songs available for download. Mix Radio online streaming, with ability to cache music for a whole month to play in offline mode. Integrated Bing with text, voice and image and music search, Speak to text short message service. Marketplace has obviously proved a bit of unbias reviews, but all the neccesary apps are available, if not a third party solution. This is all the built in software from the get go.. I cant think of much else a person would need as a beginner or and advanced user.

The true product Windows 8 will come with new hardware and a little bit of tweeked OS, i dont see much of the basics changing, except maybe for a more fully integrated capability with the newest Tablet Pc's, Xbox's, Kinects and Windows Phone..

Thats just my prediction, and being a Lumia 800 user im more excited than angry, im just happy im getting the chance as an early adopter, to embrace this new simple, effective, streamlined OS out for myself

The latest WP devices will get the upgrade - Nokia wouldn't have spend millions in ads if the Lumias couldn't get an upgrade.

Microsoft just doesn't want another Longhorn - they won't officially announce anything until they're sure they can do it.

Aethec said,
The latest WP devices will get the upgrade - Nokia wouldn't have spend millions in ads if the Lumias couldn't get an upgrade.

You seem very sure of that. We've heard from multiple sources now that they won't be getting the upgrade. If Nokia and Microsoft were sure of it, we would have had a statement by now.

Aethec said,

Microsoft just doesn't want another Longhorn - they won't officially announce anything until they're sure they can do it.

That's not a lot of comfort to Lumia 900 users..Microsoft's silence is deafening.

simplezz said,
You seem very sure of that. We've heard from multiple sources now that they won't be getting the upgrade. If Nokia and Microsoft were sure of it, we would have had a statement by now.

Sources? Yeah, unnamed and anonymous "insider" sources who said contradictory information. Not much. Remember how long it took to finally know the Win8 SKUs and the future of the desktop/start menu in Win8?
simplezz said,
That's not a lot of comfort to Lumia 900 users..Microsoft's silence is deafening.

Indeed. Microsoft is being very secretive right now, which leads to these kinds of rumors. Probably Sinofsky's influence.

simplezz said,

You seem very sure of that. We've heard from multiple sources now that they won't be getting the upgrade. If Nokia and Microsoft were sure of it, we would have had a statement by now.


That's not a lot of comfort to Lumia 900 users..Microsoft's silence is deafening.


Every rumour has a source, doesn't make it true though.

It will, because the current Wndows Phone iteration has so many basic features missing so people would be ****ed off if they do not get an upgrade and won't recommend the phones to other people.

No, not for me. Because I don't own any 3rd generation Windows Phone (Nokia Lumia & HTC Titan 2).
My HTC 7 Pro is old enough to throw away and at the end of this year my HTC Radar will be old. So I will get new Windows phone 8 device next year.

A 3Gs can run iOS 5.1, so I expect my Focus Flash to run WP 8x, I will not abandon the platform, I would buy a new phone, but I wont be very happy about it....

Jack O Neill said,
A 3Gs can run iOS 5.1, so I expect my Focus Flash to run WP 8x, I will not abandon the platform, I would buy a new phone, but I wont be very happy about it....

That's all well and good, but what about all those people buying a Lumia 900 on a two year contract only to find out their software will be obsolete in 4/5 months?

simplezz said,

That's all well and good, but what about all those people buying a Lumia 900 on a two year contract only to find out their software will be obsolete in 4/5 months?

Count me as one. I loved my Lumia 900 but the high risk of it getting no update to WP8 was enough for me to return it yesterday and get an iPhone 4S instead. Upgrades matter.

jluckett said,
Count me as one. I loved my Lumia 900 but the high risk of it getting no update to WP8 was enough for me to return it yesterday and get an iPhone 4S instead. Upgrades matter.

The Lumia 900 will get a WP8 upgrade. Not delivering it would be insane from Nokia's part, and kill the momentum they started.

Aethec said,

The Lumia 900 will get a WP8 upgrade. Not delivering it would be insane from Nokia's part, and kill the momentum they started.

Nokia won't have a choice in the matter. If WP8 is so fundamentally different to WP7, then it's out of the hands of the OEM's.

simplezz said,

Nokia won't have a choice in the matter. If WP8 is so fundamentally different to WP7, then it's out of the hands of the OEM's.

That's the point - it's not "fundamentally different". It's still a phone operating system.
The kernel is different (but you don't talk to the kernel directly on Windows anyway), and the APIs to build drivers and apps are different, that's all.

Open Task Manager and look at the "NT Kernel & System" process. On my machine it takes ~80K of RAM. NT is not some kind of memory blackhole that can't run on low-end devices.

Look at this (posted on the B8 blog): http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-file...43/8306.Photo_2D00_0052.jpg
It's an early Win8 build (still labeled Win7), fully loaded in RAM on an old device.

Aethec said,

That's the point - it's not "fundamentally different". It's still a phone operating system.

Unfortunately, Microsoft doesn't release its source code to the community like Google does with Android, so you'll likely never see WP8 running on current handsets if Microsoft doesn't want it.

simplezz said,

Unfortunately, Microsoft doesn't release its source code to the community like Google does with Android, so you'll likely never see WP8 running on current handsets if Microsoft doesn't want it.
You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Microsoft did not release the source code for WP7, yet the HTC HD2 is now capable of running WP7.

Its simple. They will tell you. Now you have MORE RAM, MORE CORES AND EVERYTHING PLATFORM WAS LACKING.
It will dead... LOL
because iphone and android users say so...

I think a lot of people would feel betrayed and wouldn't buy another Windows Phone.
But I think that a lot of people (myself included) like the platform so much, that we know that our next phone will be another Windows Phone.

Most of the people I know with first generation WP7 (I have a Lumia 800 so I'm not included) are holding off on buying a WP7.5 to buy a WP8 but aren't even thinking about changing platform !!

It probably won't kill off the WP platform, but it would most likely be a significant contributing factor.

Windows Phone was supposed to be the best of both worlds from iOS and Android at the beginning. Carriers and OEMs weren't allowed to interfere with the OS, install crapware, or mess with the upgrade schedules, and it would be smooth and well-engineered so users can have a great UX without having to root the device and install custom ROMs or hack a bunch of stuff just so they don't have to tolerate 20 fps scrolling.

Now WP looks set to turn into something that embodies the worst of both worlds instead. Microsoft is bowing to OEM/carrier pressure in order to increase market share. They're letting carriers dictate the upgrade schedules and install crapware into WP. And, worse, you can't root the device to undo whatever fecal matter that is forcibly foisted on you, nor is there a robust developer community like Android has.

So, no, the lack of upgrades by itself won't kill WP. But it's a symptom of the wider problem of Microsoft kowtowing to carriers and OEMs, and that is what will kill WP as a viable competitor.

xeleraph said,
...

You clearly do not understand how WP works.
A carrier can only install apps, and all apps must be uninstallable.
Since apps are sandboxed, they cannot write outside of their isolated storage, thus there are no remainders.

Aethec said,

You clearly do not understand how WP works.
A carrier can only install apps, and all apps must be uninstallable.
Since apps are sandboxed, they cannot write outside of their isolated storage, thus there are no remainders.

All apps must be uninstallable? Can you tell me how do I uninstall the Internet Explorer app?

Some apps can clearly be prevented from being uninstalled by the user as Microsoft sees fit. Clearly this protection can also be extended to carrier-installed crapware if that's what it takes for Microsoft to suck up to them. I'm surprised something this obvious actually needs explaining.

xeleraph said,

All apps must be uninstallable? Can you tell me how do I uninstall the Internet Explorer app?

Some apps can clearly be prevented from being uninstalled by the user as Microsoft sees fit. Clearly this protection can also be extended to carrier-installed crapware if that's what it takes for Microsoft to suck up to them. I'm surprised something this obvious actually needs explaining.


Just because Microsoft can program something, doesn't mean they will. In the meantime, carrier-installed crapware is incredibly easy to remove from WP.

xeleraph said,

All apps must be uninstallable? Can you tell me how do I uninstall the Internet Explorer app?

Some apps can clearly be prevented from being uninstalled by the user as Microsoft sees fit. Clearly this protection can also be extended to carrier-installed crapware if that's what it takes for Microsoft to suck up to them. I'm surprised something this obvious actually needs explaining.


Dafuq dude, he's talking about the apps the carriers installed.

we are in a new era. when they finally come out and say no apollo for current users, every official social outlet will be flooded with angry messages. To be honest they deserve any and all bad press etc coming their way. why? they released 2 major phones in april when they probably knew they wouldnt get apollo in the fall and purposely remained silent.

TruckWEB said,
I have no upgrade path for my Samsung Galaxy S to ICS, is it going to kill Android? Nope. Old phone are old, that's it.

Galaxy S released June 2010, ICS released November 2011 (difference of 18 months).

By the same account, if the Lumia 900 wasn't upgradable for a WP8 launch in October 2013 (18 months after launch) then that'd probably be ok (to most geeks) but the WP8 launch date is likely to be closer to October 2012 than October 2013.

.fahim said,
Galaxy S released June 2010, ICS released November 2011 (difference of 18 months).

By the same account, if the Lumia 900 wasn't upgradable for a WP8 launch in October 2013 (18 months after launch) then that'd probably be ok (to most geeks) but the WP8 launch date is likely to be closer to October 2012 than October 2013.

Why on Earth would that be okay to most geeks? You are still stuck under the most traditional two year contract, and you think that it's okay for both the carrier and the manufacturer to end support for your device with half a year left on its contract? TruckWEB is almost certainly still under contract, yet you're somehow differentiating cutting off support. This is what's wrong with Android, and what we're all desperately hoping is not wrong with WP. I doubt it is wrong with WP, but as long as the rumor looms we are all in the dark.

It's no wonder that the manufacturers making Android phones forget about owners generally after a single update (if that, but fortunately Samsung did okay with two updates on the Galaxy S, which was released in July in the US, which means it came out after Android 2.2 and that was one of the updates...). As a Windows Phone owner, that is not acceptable, and forgetting about a Nokia Lumia 900 now, or anytime in 2013, means that people might as well just go to iOS if they want some idea of sustained support, which was a pillar at the launch of Windows Phone 7--an unfragmented system, unlike Android.

To me it makes me nervous when it comes to buying into the platform, something I want to do but a lack of suitably specified handset is stopping me right now. It's the same reason I won't buy into Android as a platform yet, even though I think it (Android) is the future.

But to be honest, Joe Average doesn't care. It is one of the most interesting parts about the what phone should I buy conversation that I have with people that are less geeky - and it is one of the pro's of iOS is that your phone has to be pretty old before it isn't supported by an OS upgrade (even though you might not get all of the features) - but that doesn't deter most people from going Android.

So will it kill it for me, or the other geeks frequenting this site and answering the poll? Probably, but for Joe Average definitely not and hence I voted NO.

Now there's an interesting hook for Microsoft. What if Microsoft brings something new to the table, and makes Windows phone act in the same way as Windows itself. By this I mean that phone manufacturers are simply the people who construct the hardware, from which any OS can be installed on top of (just like with a PC).

If Microsoft integrates the phenomenal hardware compatibility into Windows phone, and partners up with hardware vendors to do so. You could buy a new version of Windows phone by simply paying a license fee, just how you would buy a new copy of Windows. the only limitation will be the minimum hardware requirements, as well as driver support.

If Microsoft wants a game changer then I think this will be a good strategy to achieve it.
Now... How to convince those pesky carriers?

Ad Man Gamer said,
Now there's an interesting hook for Microsoft. What if Microsoft brings something new to the table, and makes Windows phone act in the same way as Windows itself. By this I mean that phone manufacturers are simply the people who construct the hardware, from which any OS can be installed on top of (just like with a PC).

If Microsoft integrates the phenomenal hardware compatibility into Windows phone, and partners up with hardware vendors to do so. You could buy a new version of Windows phone by simply paying a license fee, just how you would buy a new copy of Windows. the only limitation will be the minimum hardware requirements, as well as driver support.

If Microsoft wants a game changer then I think this will be a good strategy to achieve it.
Now... How to convince those pesky carriers?

Lol that would be terrible. That'd be like Android but even worse. Only like 0.001% of the population would want full hardware control and buy licenses for their phone.

Average consumer wants something that WORKS and they don't have to think about. Installing updates on Windows is already tough enough for most consumers...

andrewbares said,

Lol that would be terrible. That'd be like Android but even worse. Only like 0.001% of the population would want full hardware control and buy licenses for their phone.

Average consumer wants something that WORKS and they don't have to think about. Installing updates on Windows is already tough enough for most consumers...


Well, a smartphone..... is not just a phone, and this is the reason why I agree that OSes should be indipendent from hardware, exactly as it happens with PCs.
The time of Motorola MicroTac is over.......

My answer is yes, it'll very likely kill WP platform.
I can't say about other phone makers n markets, but Nokia has a different market dynamics to it, n its even more so in developing economies like India.

No WP7 to WP8 upgrade for current Nokia Lumias will be very damaging to Nokia amounting to loss of trust among customers, n I fear the company may finally sink if it were to happen.
Like in chess, Nokia is the Queen, death of Nokia may effectively put an end to WP. There maybe others, but none can create a buzz about WP like Nokia does.
For example, Indian market is price hyper-sensitive. Rs. 10k phone buyers outnumber by several times Rs. 15k ones as carrier relationships do not exist. This increases exponentially as you raise the difference.
Of course India is not everything, but if WP has to succeed, Indian market has to be 1 of its cornerstones. Its just the sheer size of the market!
Even in markets like US, I can't see ANY present Nokia Lumia 900 owner being too happy about it either.
The pace at which mobile market is moving, it'll be near impossible to rebuild a trust lost quickly b4 the company goes under water.

I believe Nokia knows it though, its up to MS to clarify the matter at the earliest or Nokia may coax MS into upgrading WP7 to WP8.

They would definitely take a hit since atleast one major upgrade can be justified. Also, since the number of devices to upgrade is few, it should not be a big deal for them...

Raa said,
You can't kill something that's already dying.

Go around killing people with a terminal illness and then say that to the judge.

It wouldn't bother me too much (on a personal note) because I am pretty sure if rumours are true and Microsoft have been testing on current devices, XDA-DEVELOPERS will be able to port it.

TheDisneyMagic said,
It wouldn't bother me too much (on a personal note) because I am pretty sure if rumours are true and Microsoft have been testing on current devices, XDA-DEVELOPERS will be able to port it.

If they're running it on current devices, how hard can it be to just release Windows Phone 8 as an update for these phones?

I hope the carriers are not the main cause, that'd **** me off.

I dont know what the fuss is. Android users are fine with it, so should WP users. My friend has Samsung Ace with Gingerbread. He's not getting honeycomb or ICS and he's least bothered. Actually he didnt even know what ICS is, had to explain to him!

As long as the ecosystem exists and apps work (even the new ones for WP8), things should be fine.

It won't change anything. Android does this all the time and it's still growing strong. People will just learn to deal with it, they'll either upgrade to a new WP8 device or stick with their WP7.x device till [their] upgrade time or jump ship. Anyway there is nothing wrong with the current version of WP, there is no reason for people to get upset over not getting the next major version (mainly because many of the new features they can't use anyway). That is my 2 cents, take with a grain of salt.

It would hack off the existing customers (me!) but the market share is so low that if there was a time to do it... it would be now. I just hope that IF that is the case, that the users coming on with 2nd gen devices at least get some sort of quasi-pseudo version upgrade. Even if it isn't full on Apollo, just something to at least make it function similarly.

So, not much to kill off honestly. I'm due an upgrade this summer and I'm very interested to see what comes of this.

laserfloyd said,
It would hack off the existing customers (me!) but the market share is so low that if there was a time to do it... it would be now. I just hope that IF that is the case, that the users coming on with 2nd gen devices at least get some sort of quasi-pseudo version upgrade. Even if it isn't full on Apollo, just something to at least make it function similarly.

So, not much to kill off honestly. I'm due an upgrade this summer and I'm very interested to see what comes of this.

Agreed, I would be happy with a quasi update which brings some of the needed features to the OS (background VoiP being the main one for me for Lync and skype).

laserfloyd said,
It would hack off the existing customers (me!) but the market share is so low that if there was a time to do it... it would be now. I just hope that IF that is the case, that the users coming on with 2nd gen devices at least get some sort of quasi-pseudo version upgrade. Even if it isn't full on Apollo, just something to at least make it function similarly.

So, not much to kill off honestly. I'm due an upgrade this summer and I'm very interested to see what comes of this.


but there is a reputation at stake. people would afraid to jump on a platform that can pull off such move on just next major version. so at least Lumia's should get WP8 no matter what and it is possible to do (if they're already testing WP8 on current Lumia's).

The fact that this was likely to happen and that Windows Phone is relatively immature compared to iOS and Android and likely to evolve so much in the next couple of years was one of the main reasons I went for an iPhone over Windows Phone. I suspect that issues with upgrading may stem from moving from Windows CE to Windows NT - the NT kernel may place requirements on other aspects of the device such as say the bootloader and firmware - and that if it does have a new kernel (and possibly WinRT) large parts of the OS may have been changed internally - so much so that moving the front-end configuration apps and settings between the two would be very hard.

Also I hope the carriers don't have much say in this, I have a sneaky suspicion they are behind any friction towards a full upgrade to 8.

We need more details first, if we don't get an upgrade to 8 but get some update that gives a lot of its main features then I'll be fine with that.

What I want is the integration stuff, the added services and VoiP stack (for skype/lynk background running to accept calls etc.).

Some of the new things in 8 are irrelevant, like new resolutions and multicore support as all the older devices are exactly the same, so a full upgrade to 8 might not necessary we just need some of the new stuff porting back.

To totally abandon phones sold today with no upgrade path is bad, they should always go back 1 generation with major updates, even if its a case of the update being slightly different to the new OS on new hardware.

duddit2 said,
To totally abandon phones sold today with no upgrade path is bad, they should always go back 1 generation with major updates, even if its a case of the update being slightly different to the new OS on new hardware.

This.

IMHO updates should always support phones released within the length of standard carrier contracts from the update's release date, so if a phone was released 12-18 months ago any major update should include it.

Especially with smart phones, to cease support of products released within that time frame is to instantly annoy a large percentage of your current customer base.

Although to be honest I think Microsoft already annoyed a reasonable number of their customers by linking WP7 with Zune.

Nihilus said,

This.

IMHO updates should always support phones released within the length of standard carrier contracts from the update's release date, so if a phone was released 12-18 months ago any major update should include it.

Especially with smart phones, to cease support of products released within that time frame is to instantly annoy a large percentage of your current customer base.

Although to be honest I think Microsoft already annoyed a reasonable number of their customers by linking WP7 with Zune.


given that 2nd gen windows phones aren't much different from 1st gen by specs, if 2nd will have it, then 1st should have it by all means. but support for lower spec Tango phones is most questionable.

It wouldn't kill Windows Phones. But it might dissuade people from buying if the competition pick up on this and roll out ad campaigns. This could prove to be a major setback for Microsoft PR, regardless of the problems and technical limitations.

Providing existing Windows Phone 7 users with a subset of Windows Phone 8 features may not be seen as enough by some sceptics.

Personally, I'd like to see Microsoft support at least 1 major upgrade to keep up with the competition (iOS).

BrentNewbury said,
It wouldn't kill Windows Phones. But it might dissuade people from buying if the competition pick up on this and roll out ad campaigns. This could prove to be a major setback for Microsoft PR, regardless of the problems and technical limitations.

Providing existing Windows Phone 7 users with a subset of Windows Phone 8 features may not be seen as enough by some sceptics.

Personally, I'd like to see Microsoft support at least 1 major upgrade to keep up with the competition (iOS).

I think therein lies part of the problem. With this upgrade it's essentially a full overhaul from the kernel up. I'm not exactly savvy on how it all works but it's more than a major upgrade really. It's effectively a brand new OS. Here's hoping though.

I think it'll kill a lot of people from buying WP7 devices who know about them, people who hang around on forums like Neowin. The average person? They probably will never know.

McKay said,
I think it'll kill a lot of people from buying WP7 devices who know about them, people who hang around on forums like Neowin. The average person? They probably will never know.

They'll know if they go to the App Store and see "This app requires Windows Phone 8" every time they try to download something.

lunarworks said,

They'll know if they go to the App Store and see "This app requires Windows Phone 8" every time they try to download something.

Then the app store simply won't show results that aren't compatible? Very simple.

However, if there's a commercial that says "available on Windows Phone" but they can't find it since they have an old phone, that will **** them off

No, the average user would not understand enough about phones to know / care.

If that did happen the worst i see happening is a few of the more hardcore users been upset about it. Windows Phone fanboys would buy another phone regardless.

The only major problem i see would be if newer apps only works on Windows Phone 8, i could see a bit of a backlash there, especially from owners of the new Nokia Lumia.

InsaneNutter said,
No, the average user would not understand enough about phones to know / care.

Actually there are average users that do care. There's no concrete number of the people that do or don't, but saying that they don't care, or understand it enough is wrong because it's a sweeping generalization.

I trolled the Samsung Mobility Facebook page a few months back, and while there were a lot of, "average users," that praised the Samsung phone that they purchased, but there were also a lot of them that inquired about updates to their phones. Some were even upset that their phone wasn't getting one at all.

Personally, I wouldn't by anything that was a dead end device.

InsaneNutter said,
No, the average user would not understand enough about phones to know / care.

You obviously haven't factored in word of mouth. Normal users ask their techie friends for advice and recommendations. To say this will have no effect is wishful thinking.

dafin0 said,
if new apps still work on wp7 (that are made for wp8) then i personally dont see the problem.

With high degree of probability they won't, WP7 does not support anything but Silverlight. Though if MS releases an update to bring WinRT support to WP7, then I agree it'll be no pain. Apart from the topic I really hope they will make old generation devices upgradable, otherwise they are no better than Google.

Vladislav Nagorny said,

Apart from the topic I really hope they will make old generation devices upgradable, otherwise they are no better than Google.

Don't you mean the OEM's? They're the ones who hold back Android updates not Google. Besides, lots of devices got the ICS upgrade, with many more still to come.

If these rumours are true, then WP and Microsoft are far worse than Google/Android. The Lumia 900's software will be obsolete in 4/5 months? That's top notch support right there.. What ever happened to the promised "updates forever" and "no fragmentation"? A nice pipe dream for sure.

This leads me to believe that each new major iteration of WP's OS won't offer an upgrade path. Just look at the history here:
1. WP 6.x : no WP7 upgrade path
2. WP7.x : no WP8 upgrade path
3. WP8.x : no WP9 upgrade path?

Impressive support eh? All those WP7 users bemoaning Android's lack of updates are looking a bit green with envy right about now.

Vladislav Nagorny said,

With high degree of probability they won't, WP7 does not support anything but Silverlight. Though if MS releases an update to bring WinRT support to WP7, then I agree it'll be no pain. Apart from the topic I really hope they will make old generation devices upgradable, otherwise they are no better than Google.

MS has already stated that they will.

simplezz said,

This leads me to believe that each new major iteration of WP's OS won't offer an upgrade path. Just look at the history here:
1. WP 6.x : no WP7 upgrade path
2. WP7.x : no WP8 upgrade path
3. WP8.x : no WP9 upgrade path?

History? Only 6.x is history - and for good reason. The rest is speculation.

simplezz said,

Don't you mean the OEM's? They're the ones who hold back Android updates not Google. Besides, lots of devices got the ICS upgrade, with many more still to come.

If these rumours are true, then WP and Microsoft are far worse than Google/Android. The Lumia 900's software will be obsolete in 4/5 months? That's top notch support right there.. What ever happened to the promised "updates forever" and "no fragmentation"? A nice pipe dream for sure.

This leads me to believe that each new major iteration of WP's OS won't offer an upgrade path. Just look at the history here:
1. WP 6.x : no WP7 upgrade path
2. WP7.x : no WP8 upgrade path
3. WP8.x : no WP9 upgrade path?

Impressive support eh? All those WP7 users bemoaning Android's lack of updates are looking a bit green with envy right about now.

Tell me why my HTC Desire has no upgrade to ICS then?

simplezz said,

Don't you mean the OEM's? They're the ones who hold back Android updates not Google. Besides, lots of devices got the ICS upgrade, with many more still to come.

If these rumours are true, then WP and Microsoft are far worse than Google/Android. The Lumia 900's software will be obsolete in 4/5 months? That's top notch support right there.. What ever happened to the promised "updates forever" and "no fragmentation"? A nice pipe dream for sure.

This leads me to believe that each new major iteration of WP's OS won't offer an upgrade path. Just look at the history here:
1. WP 6.x : no WP7 upgrade path
2. WP7.x : no WP8 upgrade path
3. WP8.x : no WP9 upgrade path?

Impressive support eh? All those WP7 users bemoaning Android's lack of updates are looking a bit green with envy right about now.

Troll, please quit posting. You asked on the forums for me to show you a list of Android phones around 6 months old that received no update (on a nearly identical forums thread). I did, then you somehow claimed the few that I called out explicitly to be a magical exception, at which point I pointed out more devices from the same list and you stopped talking to me (but not others ).

We understand that you love Android, and that's your opinion to have, but denying Android fragmentation is both pointless and stupid. It exists, and it's the entire fear behind these WP8 posts: Windows Phone owners don't want to see what has happened to your platform appear on their/our platform.

Furthermore, you are using the complete change from Windows Mobile 6 to Windows Phone 7 to extrapolate some meaning about a rumor about WP7 going to WP8, and then going even further to WP9 (which likely will not be a kernel change). WM6 was not even closely related to WP7; it was so different that applications written from WM6 must be rewritten to run on WP7, which is one of two valid reasons to kill an upgrade path (the other being that the hardware cannot handle the update).

Now, WP8 will most likely be replacing the kernel of Windows Phone 7, but it will also most likely continue to support Silverlight on top of it (after all, that's the purpose of APIs/frameworks like Silverlight: to protect developers from changes below them, plus there have already been logs of WP8-based phones running existing Silverlight apps). As a result, it will most likely continue to support WP7 apps, thus removing that reason to "unsupport" WP7 devices. Finally, the Windows 8 kernel has been proven to be capable of running on WP7 hardware over a year ago, which means that Microsoft cannot use the excuse that it won't run well enough, thus removing the second reason to "unsupport." (And to be clear, Microsoft has not used either excuse. I am simply calling out what would be the two most likely candidates and nullifying them before any marketing person can claim otherwise)

Last, but not least, this is all boiling down to a rumor and a lack of an announcement from Microsoft, which does not mean anything. Microsoft likes to control its announcements and it does not respond to rumors as a corporate policy (most big companies do not, thereby disallowing outsiders to have control of their announcements). It's completely unfair, and unrealistic, to compare the fragmentation of Android to the currently amazing update support provided from Microsoft, where literally every Windows Phone can get every update (Microsoft even releases the ones that the carriers block, although it's up to you to apply yourself, but it does not require anything remotely similar to rooting of your device).

The only green here is your love-fest for your little green Android. I completely agree that Microsoft will be killing their platform if they do not give WP7 owners, like myself, the WP8 update, but it would be not different than what happens to most Android devices (which almost all lose support after a single year). In such a case, I will certainly jump-ship back to iOS and I will convince everyone that I already convinced onto WP7 to join me. Until we know that, literally everything you say is wrong or an extreme extrapolation.

rfirth said,

History? Only 6.x is history - and for good reason. The rest is speculation.

Maybe for you; personally I miss the functionalities of my HD2 with WM 6.5.3 and I wish Wp8 brings them back.

I wouldn't say kill but would give it a big knockback because then that's several million current users just being cut out. 1st and 2nd gen devices I think they could cope with them not being upgraded. But the Nokia phones and HTC Titan II not getting it would be damaging.

Gaffney said,
I wouldn't say kill but would give it a big knockback because then that's several million current users just being cut out. 1st and 2nd gen devices I think they could cope with them not being upgraded. But the Nokia phones and HTC Titan II not getting it would be damaging.

It definitely means I wont be getting a WP until WP8 and Id be ****ed if I got the 900 with no upgrade path.