When talking with customer service reps, it becomes clear why Windows Phone isn't selling well

The IDC issued a report yesterday that showed Windows Phone shipments had slowed down and that the market share was shrinking. The trend seems a bit odd considering that Microsoft has been putting out quality hardware, Windows Phone has been updated at a feverish pace and well, Cortana, has been a star of her own. So, trying to find the missing link between these devices and why they are not selling, we went to the online-sites of the largest carriers in the US to see what sales representatives had to say.

We were able to talk with folks from Verizon, AT&T and Sprint; T-Mobile did not have an online chat option. We used the online chat option to talk to the representatives for easy documentation of our conversations and took the approach of being a new smartphone buyer trying to buy their first device. We tried to keep the conversation pointed towards Windows Phone devices but each carrier eventually turned us away from the products. In some cases, it was not because Windows Phone was bad, it was that the rep owned a certain type of device and pushed that phone into the conversation.

First up is Verizon who also had the most aggressive point of view about not wanting us to select a Windows Phone. You can read the chat log below.

Verizon was the worst offender during our conversation with sales reps by flat out saying that a Windows Phone would not make for a good first smartphone. The sales rep directed us to an iPhone because that is what they use and can recommend it confidently. There is nothing wrong with offering a phone that the sales rep knows the user will likely enjoy but for Windows Phone, this is a huge issue as it shows that even when a consumer is interested in a device, the largest barrier they have is the sales rep.

We want to point out that this was our second conversation we had with Verizon; during the first one, we said that we had an Android device and wanted to upgrade and were considering a Windows Phone. The rep recommended we stay with Android so all the apps would transfer over to the new device. It was then decided to take the approach of being a first time smartphone buyer so that app transfers would not be used to recommend a new device.

AT&T was not much better than Verizon, as evidenced below:

This conversation was a tad better, with the sales rep at least talking about Nokia's devices but does so in a way that paints a derogatory image of the devices and then ends by recommending an iPhone. It's not hard to see that if you want a Windows Phone, the biggest barrier is not trying to find a quality device, it's getting past the sales rep who prefers to recommend devices other than Windows Phones.

Sprint was a similar story to AT&T and Verizon but it is worth pointing out that Sprint has a dismal selection of Windows Phones with the only decent option being the aged HTC 8XT or Samsung ATIV S Neo.

As you can see from the conversations, it does not matter what features Windows Phones have as the sales rep is turning away customers from Microsoft's platform even when they have intentions of wanting a device that runs Windows Phone. For Microsoft, this is their biggest problem. It's not the apps, the hardware or anything else, it is the sales reps who are doing the most harm to the platform. This is a problem that they need to find a solution for as soon as possible because it does not matter how good their marketing is, they are still losing sales at the point-of-sale. If this isn't fixed soon, Windows Phone market share will continue to shrink.

If you have purchased a Windows Phone from a retail outlet recently, let us know about your buying experience in the comments below.

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I am currently running a Lumia 520 as a test - to see how our corporate system works on WP8.1 and also to see whether I'd like to switch from Android personally.

My main gripe with the system, and one that I think is actually a major bugbear, is the Facebook app.

The browser is fine. I think the live tiles are great (lousy on Windows 8.1 PCs but great on a phone). Most of the apps are fine.

But lets face it, every time you see someone out and about on a phone, half of them are using Facebook. And the app is utter rubbish - something like the Android one was 3 or 4 years ago.

It's not even possible (with the latest update in the last week) to sort by latest first - which makes it a total non starter to anyone who uses Facebook. And that is a huge part of the public using smartphones.

PaddyFromScotland said,
I am currently running a Lumia 520 as a test - to see how our corporate system works on WP8.1 and also to see whether I'd like to switch from Android personally.

My main gripe with the system, and one that I think is actually a major bugbear, is the Facebook app.

The browser is fine. I think the live tiles are great (lousy on Windows 8.1 PCs but great on a phone). Most of the apps are fine.

But lets face it, every time you see someone out and about on a phone, half of them are using Facebook. And the app is utter rubbish - something like the Android one was 3 or 4 years ago.

It's not even possible (with the latest update in the last week) to sort by latest first - which makes it a total non starter to anyone who uses Facebook. And that is a huge part of the public using smartphones.

Give the Facebook Beta app a go. It's light years ahead of the mainstream app and in my experience a hell of a lot more stable - and I test software for a living!

This is mostly because of people using what their friends and family are using, simply because they must learn "whatever" phone they get. This is a Tech forum, non-techie grandma's and children and people that can hardly use a computer are a large amount of buyers. It's not just "iSheep". For the most part all people are Sheeple. We all do things based on something, and many times that something is what the other people we are around are or are not doing. This is simply how people work.

This is great stuff. Perhaps your next "sting" operation would be to talk to support and ask them what types of support issues they encounter with Windows Phones.

when i was in the usa in a verzion store to get a dumbphone with american number, some old dude walked in was interested in the lumia 520 and the girl working there basically told him "windows phone is hard to use, get an iphone"

"For Microsoft, this is their biggest problem. It's not the apps, the hardware or anything else, it is the sales reps who are doing the most harm to the platform. This is a problem that they need to find a solution for as soon as possible because it does not matter how good their marketing is, they are still losing sales at the point-of-sale. If this isn't fixed soon, Windows Phone market share will continue to shrink."

I've been preaching this for years. Point-of-sale is the BIGGEST problem (with negative media bias being close 2nd). Your average consumer WILL let a salesperson steer or change their decision and, from my experience, most phone sales staff just don't care enough about their 'craft' to be familiar enough with all of the products they sell to be as useful as they should for those kinds of customers. It just falls back on what they're familiar with or what they are a 'fan' of (ahem).

But here's the issue: what the heck is Microsoft supposed to do about that? Seriously, unless they implant sales staff in every single retail location and carrier sales/support outlet on and off-line, this is going to continue to happen and be the biggest barrier to marketshare growth.

When I went to a Verizon store to look at the Trophy when it first came out, I had a salesperson tell me that Android was 6 years ahead of everything else. Those literal words came out of his mouth. I know it's anecdotal, but it's also illustrative of just how awful it is out there with many sales staff selling and recommending phones.

Instead of telling Microsoft that they need to fix this problem, it's time to start suggesting how it can be fixed realistically. Me? I got nothing. Fanboys ruin everything positive about our species ...

About a month ago, I volunteered to help my 78-year-old grandmother find a smartphone since - as she put it - she felt she needed to "get with the times". Knowing she isn't one to pick up technology quickly (and would rarely use her phone for anything other than calling... maybe texting), I narrowed her choices down to one phone on each platform: The iPhone 5S, Moto X, and the Lumina 928 (I secretly wanted her to get the Moto X, since it'd be easier for her to just talk to it). I then gave her some videos to watch, and took her into the Verizon store to see the devices first-hand.

Needless to say... that... was a bad idea. She had genuine questions about each of the platforms and devices (questions I didn't expect her to ask, honestly) that the sales associate could not answer; questions like: how can I sync my pictures to my PC? Can I use voice dialing when connected to the Bluetooth in my car? Can I use it with the Fitbit? In the end, I ended up answering about 90% of her questions.

I think what this article is about, has more to do with the preferences of the salespeople, and their general lack of experience with all but one platform (I don't really think it's a snub to WP). I also think they're more interested in getting you into a new contract, than helping you in any real way.

A more tell-tale sign are the training courses they offer. There's only one Verizon store "near" me that offers courses in WP; and it's almost 20 miles away... and it's the only one that offers it within a 50 mile radius.

Sadly I agree with the sales reps from Verizon and AT&T. Windows phone is just horrible because it's just so buggy and missing common features.

Most people just need a phone that works they dont care what OS it has.


At first I was recommending windows phone because it looks nice and feels easy to use but because of all the bugs listed below that microsoft is not interested in fixing I only tell people to buy iPhones and Sony Xperia Z handsets.

+ switching off randomly (common)
+ software crashing to the point device where the phone needs to be hard powered off but because it just displays black screen you think phone dead. (common)
+ restoring the phone software make the phone unusable
+ internet explorer not supporting touch events correctly or at all. (common)
+ bing search button can't be disabled (I found myself and lot of people hitting this button by mistake) (common)
+ WIFI access points just not display you have to restart the phone (common)
+ Windows Update will not work sometimes returning error code. (on 520 windows update basically would not work at all in Australia)

Edited by Anthony Muscat, Aug 16 2014, 12:59am :

I don't think so. in australia Telstra had to delay and even cancel some Nokia 1020 preorders due to large software issues when there where testing the handset and the Nokia Lumia 920 telstra staff recommend against users buying it due to large software buggies like not able to send SMS, call drops, handset stops working etc.

http://techau.com.au/telstra-1...d-free-520-as-compensation/

Microsoft even said they rushed out windows phone 8 OS to meet the timeline for release date what was the main issue for all the buggies.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/a...nish-windows-phone-8-report

I get calls just about every day from friend who have windows phone. Where they having issues using the phone to do basic tasks like SMS and Call and even odd errors like dialing people because the lock screen on windows phone will just unlock and call someone because the phone moved in there pocket.

Sadly it's never 'cool' to like or recommend a Microsoft product.

In this case, calling it 'Windows' Phone has never done it any favours.

I can only say that my Nokia 1020 is the best phone I've ever owned. I can also say that the AT&T stores in my area are pretty good when it comes to wp and I see wp phones in the wild.

Last time I was at the AT&T store, I had to break two of the sales rep's fingers to get him to sell me a Windows Phone.

A month ago I was at AT&T store and looking to get Lumia 1520. I stood in front of the 1520 looking and navigating the screen of it. A reps approach me and to make the story short, she recommended galaxy S whatever the latest. She also asked me why would I choose WP specifically over others. Another rep overhear our discussion and decides to chime in by adding Samsung made the best smartphone ever. I told both of them, the reason I like WP was because, I get updates and best camera. And... I got no come backs from both of them and pursue with my purchase.
It turns out, all AT&T store do not carry a window phone because the reps have to order online and shipped to my house. I think that was 1 reason why carrier pushed non window phone.

I don't doubt this happened but if you think that's why Windows is at 2.5% marketshare, I think you're being ridiculous.

I was also unaware how many people asked a rep, what phone should I get. I've never seen or heard of that.

The fans here are amazing in their support of this dying platform! It's really simple guys...the reps are recommending the phones that they, personally like. They are also recommending the phones that get the least amount of returns!

Also, for those of you who say "but we have all the big apps". Really? I work in the consumer electronics industry, and NOT ONE vendor's gear will work with Windows Phone! Not Samsung, not Sharp, not Tivo, not Denon, not Marantz, not Sonos, not Bose...the list goes on and on.

Also, for the apps you DO have...how often are they updated? Windows Phone isn't a priority for ANY developer, large or small. They are the LAST to get the new features, new UI improvements, bug fixes, or any thing else.

It's a dying platform with terrible 3rd party support, and I don't blame ANY sales rep for recommending against it. MS is trying to convince you that WP is "just as good" as iPhone or Android, and regardless of how big a fan you are...the FACT is that it is NOT as good...or even close!

So cry your tears, and get over it. It's not going to be a success no matter how much you (or MS) beats this particular dead horse!

John Nemesh said,
The fans here are amazing in their support of this dying platform! It's really simple guys...the reps are recommending the phones that they, personally like. They are also recommending the phones that get the least amount of returns!

Also, for those of you who say "but we have all the big apps". Really? I work in the consumer electronics industry, and NOT ONE vendor's gear will work with Windows Phone! Not Samsung, not Sharp, not Tivo, not Denon, not Marantz, not Sonos, not Bose...the list goes on and on.

Also, for the apps you DO have...how often are they updated? Windows Phone isn't a priority for ANY developer, large or small. They are the LAST to get the new features, new UI improvements, bug fixes, or any thing else.

It's a dying platform with terrible 3rd party support, and I don't blame ANY sales rep for recommending against it. MS is trying to convince you that WP is "just as good" as iPhone or Android, and regardless of how big a fan you are...the FACT is that it is NOT as good...or even close!

So cry your tears, and get over it. It's not going to be a success no matter how much you (or MS) beats this particular dead horse!


Amen!

I think the iPhone is the easiest phone to learn and use for a new smartphone user.

If you are new to smartphones you should not be 'pushed' towards the phone with the lowest marketshare. I mean who knows?, Windows Phone may cease to exist in a year or two.

What about all the apps people hear about? Who wants a phone without that new app everyone is using or that new game people are playing?

Its not the reps, its the phone. The reps are doing what they should and helping uninformed people make wise informed choices.

However, if you really want a Windows Phone and you have done your research and you know what you are in for then you should get a Windows Phone and you should be happy.

Its really simple, people just don't like Windows Phone much.

You people here are Windows enthusiasts and you need to open your eyes and see what 'normal' people see.

This happened to me in the Chicagoland/NWI Area. Well, almost 2 years ago, I went in with my family to a Verizon. We needed to upgrade to smartphones because it was cheaper and on a family plan. My dad and I needed to upgrade since my brother and mom already had smartphones. I told him I was going to get the Nokia Lumia 822, and the rep tried to steer me towards Android and possibly iPhone. I didn't need many apps at the time, and Windows Phone seemed like my fit. My dad went with the same phone, but the rep kept asking if we're sure because of apps. It got really annoying. My dad and I got the Lumias, but I am still frustrated with his dissatisfaction with our choices.

not the reason i don't own a WP but for friends it would be because of games like the facebook ones. Many people play them and they don't have WP versions some of them.

Personally the only reason i dont have one is because my phones are always hand downs. I get what i am given and fix it or keep it until given something better. Got my 3310 in my draw as backup. I only ever really carry a phone so people can ring me so don't need anything fancy although a camera is nice.

My $40 Nokia Windows phone arrived today. I'm playing with it now getting it updated. I'm gonna see if Windows Phone 8.1 is the best thing since sliced bread!

It definately is a problem. Not just online but also offline (in the store itself). My sister bought a HTC 8S which was having issues with its touchscreen. We went to the store with it and the seller almost refused to help us fix it. He blamed it on Windows Phone and suggested getting a better Phone, as in te new iPhone 5C. She now owns a Lumia 520.

Most people who work in this branche are hired because they are interested in Phones. But that also means they have a stong preferene. Windows Phone wasnt around when it all started so these early adopters arent likely to prefer WP.

Well its bad how phone company's customer service and Store Sales staff, try to force you get an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy Phone. A week ago, I visited a local Vodaphone store in south London near where I live. I just wanted to find out about the tariffs available as my contract with EE/T-Mobile is up in a few months. When I said I was only interested in windows phone devices. I was forced to listen to crap why apple is so amazing. In addition, that if I do not want an iPhone I should get a Samsung galaxy. The person in this shop tried treating me as if I was some sort of idiot, cos I did not want none of them phones. I would not entertain any of them he turned quite nasty over it, so I just walked out the store they will not be getting my business at all. Last week my sister took her Nokia Lumia in for repair to the same store sadly, she is with vodaphone they tried to get her to take an iPhone or an android phone as replacement and apparently, the person in there tried to run her down over it. Now someone I know who worked for a couple of different UK networks in there stores told me they are told NOT to sell windows phone to force iPhone and Samsung devices as they make more money.

Wait wait wait WAIT...

You mean to tell me that Windows Phone isn't selling because of them? I find it hard to buy that one. We were looking at some phones for the company, as many are on Verizon. Unless I'm mistaken (and please let me know if I am), there are only 4 Windows Phones available for Verizon. 2 are Nokias, and the other two are Samsung and HTC.

The HTC has horrid reviews. I don't really care for Samsung's lack of dedication to WP, and one of the Nokias was sold out. All that's left is an Icon.

You tell me what I should get from this standpoint... Me? If someone asked about a phone between that selection, I probably wouldn't go with a WP for Verizon. AT&T is a different story though...

All that's left is an Icon, maybe the best reviewed WP out there and one of the best smartphones period? How awful! No company would ever want something like that for their employees. Same reason why Apple struggles to find business customers because the selection of phones they have available is awful!

And THAT, kids, is SARCASM.

dead.cell said,
Who's talking about Apple? Typical anti-Apple crowd, always wanting to talk about Apple...

For one, I'm not anti-Apple and said nothing bad about Apple or the iPhone there. At all. Reading comprehension takes but a moment ...

I have an Icon and an iPhone 5s for work. I've used Windows and Android phones primarily until work gave us iPhones. I utterly despise iOS and the functionality of the iPhone. It's just awful from a UI perspective. Email is a nightmare. I used my personal Icon for connecting to the Exchange server. Connecting via iOS locks out my account in Active Directory periodically. iOS may have more apps, but the quality for most of them is in the 1-2 star range. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when Windows Phone is more intuitive than Apple, I think that's a problem. I would never recommend iOS to a new smart phone user.

Can you blame them? You can't even get candy crush on a Windows phone. The CSR is trying to avoid buyers remorse and returns.

I do love the windows phone OS, but HTC phones are not the best. I still at this point have not gotten the 8.1 update, but part of that is probably Sprint. My biggest thing with the Windows Phone is the apps. On my old iPhone I had apps like my bank, candy crush, bleacher report, Boston bruins app which don't exist and would give me alerts on things.

It just doesn't seem like the developers are really interested in a OS that has minimal market share. At one point wasn't this the case for both Android and the iPhone when Blackberry was the only smartphone?

My dad was looking to get WP as his first smartphone purchase after telling him about it. He lives in another country so I was unable to help him at the store so came home with an iPhone 5C. grrr

Wow, sad thing is here in Canada you would have had to explain to the rep what a Windows phone is before telling them you wanted one.

Then they would tell you to buy an iPhone or and Android phone. Heck if you check the weekly flyers that come out here in Canada, you'll find more Blackberry and Dumb phones advertised then Windows Phone.

You Americans are lucky you can walk into one of these stores and buy almost any Windows Phone on the market. I had to purchase my 1020 from AT&T and then pay to get it unlocked because it wasn't clear at the time that Rogers would get that phone.

Walk into any corporate store, and you think you've walked into an Apple store. Plus, you have to remember, most of the people that are "sales-bots" inside the stores, or, online, grew up with Apple, thanks to Apple dumping thousands of Mac's in schools years ago. They've grown up on Apple Macs, then iPods, then iPhones. Couple that with the kickbacks that they get for every Apple device sold, and it's no reason they push iPhones. As with any brainwashing, if you START THEM YOUNG, by the time they are adults, they never give it a 2nd glance.
Same as what they do now, with the so called school lunch program. Force them when they start school...eat what we tell you, believe what we tell you. Get them conditioned. It's the same way with the TSA. You start by conditioning people and before long, they march lockstep with you right over the cliff. Independence has been replaced by dependence. No more free thinkers....WE will tell you what to think and it will be for your own good.

naap51stang said,
Walk into any corporate store, and you think you've walked into an Apple store. Plus, you have to remember, most of the people that are "sales-bots" inside the stores, or, online, grew up with Apple, thanks to Apple dumping thousands of Mac's in schools years ago. They've grown up on Apple Macs, then iPods, then iPhones. Couple that with the kickbacks that they get for every Apple device sold, and it's no reason they push iPhones. As with any brainwashing, if you START THEM YOUNG, by the time they are adults, they never give it a 2nd glance.
Same as what they do now, with the so called school lunch program. Force them when they start school...eat what we tell you, believe what we tell you. Get them conditioned. It's the same way with the TSA. You start by conditioning people and before long, they march lockstep with you right over the cliff. Independence has been replaced by dependence. No more free thinkers....WE will tell you what to think and it will be for your own good.

They must have started brainwashing you before you were even born...

It really depends on the sales person.

I can imagine a Neowin member here selling phones. He would be just as Bias as these sales people but the other direction. By the time he was done with the customer they would think Jesus Christ himself used a windows phone.

What they need is a very unbias sales person which can show the customer all 3 different types of phones and lay out the pros and cons of each.

warwagon said,
I can imagine a Neowin member here selling phones. He would be just as Bias as these sales people but the other direction. By the time he was done with the customer they would think Jesus Christ himself used a windows phone.

Umm, he did. It was never written about though, because he had nobody else to call... :(

I knew what I wanted before purchasing a new phone and went straight to a Nokia store. I never listen to sales rep or recommendations from salesmen. You'd be surprised to how they will skew facts.

On another note, these Nokia are quality phones and the potential for future improvements and services that are included with Windows Phone makes it very valuable.

I'll do you one better... Walked into Microsoft Store in my area a while back. Before the Lumia 630 was shipping. The store was covered with Cortana posters and advertising. "Say hi to Cortana" etc... One problem, NONE, I repeat NONE of the store's phones were updated to 8.1. The one sales rep I talked to had it because she used the developer preview, but it was her own personal phone. So now say a customer walks in and want to see Cortana in action, well guess what NONE of the phones in the store had it, and even if they did, and the customer bought a new phone, they would have to wait before ATT/Verizon/Tmobile release the 8.1 upgrade to them. The 920 still has not been updated officially.

Who the hell is running the marketing over there? Say what you want about Apple, when they release a new version of iOS EVERYONE gets it on DAY ONE, and ALL of their in store devices are upgraded on DAY ONE!

Oh and these idiotic exclusives! I'm sorry but NO ONE is going to switch to ATT just to get the 1020. NO ONE! Why not release it to every carrier, or better yet release an unlocked version that people could buy if they wanted to. Instead you get gimped phones like the 1520 on ATT. No qi charging, and only 16GB of storage!?!?!? Oh and ONLY on ATT.

Lumia Icon, their "flagship" 8.1 device right? Only on Verizon. Apparently NEVER coming to other carriers.

As for the Modern UI hate, I honestly feel that is heard mentality. The internet decried that Windows 8 was crap, and thus the proles all believe that Windows 8 is crap. However just about everyone that took the time for me to show them Windows 8.1 actually liked it, and was surprised about all the "hate". Granted this is not like 1000x people, but a good handful...

As for Android, again people claim it is this savior miracle OS. I've owned, and or know people with just about every popular Android phone on the market, from Nexus One, Four, Five to the latest Galaxies and LG models. All, I repeat all have small issues. Random rebootings, performance issues, battery drainage. Owners run the gambit of IT professionals to housewives. A 520 can sometimes have smoother performance that a Galaxy S5. One is $50, the other a flagship. So yeah I feel WP is not getting it's fair attention. Because technically it can hold its own and sometimes surpass.


The real solution to this long term is the MS kiosks and full stores. MS definitely got the message that unless they took it upon themselves to sell all of their devices locally, they would continue to fall behind.

If most reps use and prefer Android or iOS that's fine, MS stores and kiosks will have plenty of reps that can properly showcase WP. It would be awesome if the trend at other stores changed, but this is probably the best MS can do until that happens.

The other nice thing about MS stores is the level of long term support you can get. Its very hard for a new WP buyer to get even a little help with say the initial setup or getting use to the phone in general. Customers get that at a MS store and they end up much happier with their device.


jarvis77 said,
I'll do you one better... Walked into Microsoft Store in my area a while back. Before the Lumia 630 was shipping. The store was covered with Cortana posters and advertising. "Say hi to Cortana" etc... One problem, NONE, I repeat NONE of the store's phones were updated to 8.1. The one sales rep I talked to had it because she used the developer preview, but it was her own personal phone. So now say a customer walks in and want to see Cortana in action, well guess what NONE of the phones in the store had it, and even if they did, and the customer bought a new phone, they would have to wait before ATT/Verizon/Tmobile release the 8.1 upgrade to them. The 920 still has not been updated officially.

Who the hell is running the marketing over there? Say what you want about Apple, when they release a new version of iOS EVERYONE gets it on DAY ONE, and ALL of their in store devices are upgraded on DAY ONE!.

That's unfortunate, but the stores I have been to had a phone with the latest update to show off things like cortana.

As far as the updating goes in general, MS can only do so much since its up to the carriers to push it, not MS. That is why MS created the developer preview program. Apple gets special treatment from carriers, so they get to tout it as a big advantage.

Why in the world would anyone suggest you buy a Windows Phone and alienate you from 99.5% of the world? It makes no sense. They have no reason or incentive to do so. They are absolutely doing most customers a favor by recommending the iPhone.

WP won't be around by 2018. The sooner you people realize this truth, the easier it will be on your egos.

Gods and Kings said,
Why in the world would anyone suggest you buy a Windows Phone and alienate you from 99.5% of the world? It makes no sense. They have no reason or incentive to do so. They are absolutely doing most customers a favor by recommending the iPhone.

WP won't be around by 2018. The sooner you people realize this truth, the easier it will be on your egos.

Alienate you from 99.5% of the rest of the world? In what way? You can call and text anyone on a Windows Phone regardless of what the other party uses. You can use Skype with anyone with a smartphone (or computer) and the Skype app is available on the 3 main platforms (try doing Facetime with an Android owner!), Facebook and Twitter are available for WP, etc.

So how are we WP users isolated? Only apps are device-specific, and in my case at least either a Windows version exists or a decent equivalent. Or in a few cases a better one - Here Drive+ is the best navigation app I've used, far better than Google Maps IMO. (I'll spare Apple's pride and not include Apple Maps in the comparison.)

Meanwhile my Windows phones have been more stable than my Android devices, and far less expensive than an iPhone. (I'm not comparing the stability of WP and iOS because I've never used an iPhone, so I can't judge fairly.)

Most people who see and play with my phone like it a lot, and a few have bought their own. Its a rock solid reliable platform, and when it comes to the quality of the OS itself, reps are doing customers a huge disservice in not giving Windows Phone equal consideration.

Remember, Blackberry used to be on top a few years ago, and now its on it's last legs. Android was once in WP's position and is now extremely popular. Its the quality of the product that matters most, not it's current popularity.

Windows Phone may be a distant third, but that could change, if people are made aware of it.

DConnell said,

Alienate you from 99.5% of the rest of the world? In what way? You can call and text anyone on a Windows Phone regardless of what the other party uses. You can use Skype with anyone with a smartphone (or computer) and the Skype app is available on the 3 main platforms (try doing Facetime with an Android owner!), Facebook and Twitter are available for WP, etc.

So how are we WP users isolated? Only apps are device-specific, and in my case at least either a Windows version exists or a decent equivalent. Or in a few cases a better one - Here Drive+ is the best navigation app I've used, far better than Google Maps IMO. (I'll spare Apple's pride and not include Apple Maps in the comparison.)

Meanwhile my Windows phones have been more stable than my Android devices, and far less expensive than an iPhone. (I'm not comparing the stability of WP and iOS because I've never used an iPhone, so I can't judge fairly.)

Most people who see and play with my phone like it a lot, and a few have bought their own. Its a rock solid reliable platform, and when it comes to the quality of the OS itself, reps are doing customers a huge disservice in not giving Windows Phone equal consideration.

Remember, Blackberry used to be on top a few years ago, and now its on it's last legs. Android was once in WP's position and is now extremely popular. Its the quality of the product that matters most, not it's current popularity.

Windows Phone may be a distant third, but that could change, if people are made aware of it.


Android was never in Windows Phone's position. It was highly anticipated and took off from the start. It never had a single quarter of declining shipments. Despite Microsoft dropping the license fee to cater to poorer customers, WP market share and shipments is in the decline. This is on top of their already miniscule and insignificant position.

A large amount of the apps in the Windows Phone store are rubbish. Some of them seem as if they're simply there to display ads. I have no idea how they even make it through the application process. There are many key apps that are still missing which includes: Starbucks, Youtube, Snipsnap, HBO go, Google hangouts, banking apps, ect. Some of the apps that are available on WP are sometimes missing key features that are only found on its iOS/Android counterpart. Some are even just HTML5 wrappers of the original application from those other platforms.

It's embarrassing heading into a classroom or a meeting full of people discussing events on iMessage or Google hangouts, yet you can't use either service because you have a Window Phone. That, I would say, is being isolated.

No one uses Skype anymore.

Friend: "Hey John, try out the new Nifi app."
Me: "Can't. It's not on Windows Phone."

A large amount of the apps for any platform are rubbish - that's not unique to WP. In fact, I'd venture to say that Windows has less crap, because you have fewer developers tossing out shovelware for a quick buck. Though its by no means junk-free.

Keep in mind I probably have about a half-dozen apps on my phone that didn't come with it - and I removed a few of the ones that did.

And why would I need apps for Youtube, banking etc. when WP has the most stable browser I've used on a phone? Many of the apps are just substitutes for the web site because the browsers aren't too great. Certainly web browsing on all of my Android devices was an exercise in frustration - so the apps were essential. (And Firefox is just as bad as the stock browser.) On a Windows Phone that's not the case.

Is iMessage available for any platform other than iOS? I just checked, and there is no Android version, so you can't really fault WP for not having it, since Android doesn't either. Microsoft is the only one of the big three which shares its toys, yet WP is at fault for not having iOS and Android exclusive services?

And I've only been asked to use Google Hangouts once, while my friends and family use Skype all the time. And unlike Apple and Google's offerings, its available on all the major platforms.

DConnell said,

Windows Phone may be a distant third, but that could change, if people are made aware of it.

Mango was going to make Windows Phone take off, then it was Tango, then it was Windows Phone 8 (poor Windows Phone 7 users!) now its Windows Phone 8.1 Update 1 or something. People here have been waiting and waiting and waiting, nothing seems to make a difference, no amount of advertising, no new features like the notification area, nothing, and now marketshare is going backwards.

Seriously, what now will help Windows Phone be anything other than a distant third?

DConnell said,
A large amount of the apps for any platform are rubbish - that's not unique to WP. In fact, I'd venture to say that Windows has less crap, because you have fewer developers tossing out shovelware for a quick buck. Though its by no means junk-free.

Keep in mind I probably have about a half-dozen apps on my phone that didn't come with it - and I removed a few of the ones that did.

And why would I need apps for Youtube, banking etc. when WP has the most stable browser I've used on a phone? Many of the apps are just substitutes for the web site because the browsers aren't too great. Certainly web browsing on all of my Android devices was an exercise in frustration - so the apps were essential. (And Firefox is just as bad as the stock browser.) On a Windows Phone that's not the case.

Is iMessage available for any platform other than iOS? I just checked, and there is no Android version, so you can't really fault WP for not having it, since Android doesn't either. Microsoft is the only one of the big three which shares its toys, yet WP is at fault for not having iOS and Android exclusive services?

And I've only been asked to use Google Hangouts once, while my friends and family use Skype all the time. And unlike Apple and Google's offerings, its available on all the major platforms.


This is hilarious. Over 70% of the apps in the Windows Phone store were considered "zombie apps" according to a recent study; the highest on any mobile platform. This means that those apps were submitted, never updated, and used by less than 10 users.

The mobile Youtube site, as well as other sites, straight up suck in terms of performance, and missing certain features. It's a far inferior experience on the web than natively on all devices, including Windows Phone. I can't believe anyone would ever defend the lack of app selection this way. This, to me, is a clear indication of fanboism. It is much harder to build good user experiences using the mobile web compared to native apps. Simply trying to use the camera from a web app is difficult. 86% of time spent on iOS and Android are in apps, increasing on a yearly basis.

It doesn't matter if iMessage is only available on iOS devices. Point is, in places like colleges or white collar jobs, you are likely to run into a large majority of those people using iPhones/iPads. As a matter of fact, the more prestigious the college/job, the more likely you are to run into those devices. For the young Android folks (who are not poor), they are likely using Google Hangouts. I have not once in my life ever witnessed a college student or anyone in my work environment use or even care about a Windows Phone. So again, to my original statement, this alienates you from 99.5% of the world.

Gods and Kings said,

The mobile Youtube site, as well as other sites, straight up suck in terms of performance, and missing certain features. It's a far inferior experience on the web than natively on all devices, including Windows Phone. I can't believe anyone would ever defend the lack of app selection this way.

I, on the other hand, can't believe that instead of websites we now need an APP for everything. And can't believe that someone uses the poor quality of a website to defend the need of "native apps".

This is really upsetting. It's really lame that reps are pushing a certain device with little knowledge of how the consumer uses a phone.
Second, they recommend against a WP when asked. That is outrageous. Just horrible reps that shouldn't deserve to have a job. They get nothing but the incentive for the customer to not return.

This needs to change asap and MS needs to address this immediately. Drop carrier exclusives because the carrier isn't doing you any favors. Sell direct the device that works on any network.

People should be able to choose what they want and I choose Windows Phone. I didn't need any stupid recommendation.

EMINENT said,
This is really upsetting. It's really lame that reps are pushing a certain device with little knowledge of how the consumer uses a phone.
Second, they recommend against a WP when asked. That is outrageous. Just horrible reps that shouldn't deserve to have a job. They get nothing but the incentive for the customer to not return.

This needs to change asap and MS needs to address this immediately. Drop carrier exclusives because the carrier isn't doing you any favors. Sell direct the device that works on any network.

People should be able to choose what they want and I choose Windows Phone. I didn't need any stupid recommendation.


Reps don't push a certain phone. We just give them what they want unless they ask us what WE PREFER to use.Simple as that.

Chey IDGAF said,

Reps don't push a certain phone. We just give them what they want unless they ask us what WE PREFER to use.Simple as that.

I would say the article begs to differ with you, reps push what they know not what suits the customer and not what the customer asks for!!!!

That is the exact reason why I buy all my phones SIM free through amazon or expansys, it cuts out the rep BS.

Here in Brazil I have never faced this kind of approach. Of course I always went after the cellphone I want, but usually the rep ask what kind of device I have in mind and they show me all options including windows phones. The last time I came to my career to upgrade for a Lumia 625 the rep said that I have made a good choose because that phone was selling great and was beautiful, great spec etc. I was surprised by that approach especially because I saw this rep using a galaxy 4.

This happens in Canada as well.
when I was upgrading from the Samsung Focus to the Nokia Lumia 920 two years ago, The sales rep was pushing me to get an Android device.

I told him if I wanted a Android device I would have asked for one. Even now I still can't get a Lumia 1520 from Rogers. On the Rogers forums there are boat loads of people asking for that phone.

Microsoft needs to start carrying some of those Phones unlocked at all their stores. I live about 15 Min from the Microsoft store in Toronto and I would pick one right away if they had them.

I have been on the Windows Phone bandwagon for the longest time. I had a Motorola Q, Samsung Focus Flash, Lumia 900, Lumia 920, and now have the Samsung Ativ Neo. I work for a carrier and get to update my windows phones as they come out. The other reps in the store don't care to have them so I get the newest ones. I love how far the software has come but it has come at a slow pace, speeding up quicker now.

My opinion is that the hardest part of selling WP is that they don't come out with new devices often enough or just an outstanding premium device. Sure, the specs of the phone are alright but they're all so bulky and look like toys. They need a phone to come out that LOOKS like a premium device. Come out with something nice and thin and not a colored poly carbonate shell.

Every two months there is a brand new Android device that people are drooling over and the latest phone WP has come out is a low to mid range Lumia 635. Honestly the only WPs I can sell to people are the Lumia 520 and now the 635 when people lose their phones and need a replacement but are still in contract and have no insurance.

We do not get any kickbacks or extra commissions for selling any phone. Our stores do want us to sell what ever is newest or if there is a bundle for it usually it's a good deal and that is an incentive to sell something. I have sold numerous 920 and 2520 combos bc it made sense for the customer.

PLEASE MICROSOFT, GIVE US A SURFACE PHONE!!! :)

Written from my amazing Surface Pro.

the real problem was nokia. they had zero presence in north America even when they dominated the smartphone market with Symbian. htc has declined pretty bad in north America as well,and we all know the Samsung situation.

the takeover also slowed things down. i don't think they were able to ship many phones,and nokia had its head up its ass trying to sell the nokia x crap. now that Microsoft is in control, i expect better things.

I really can't stand people telling me what I should buy based on their bias. I just had this problem when purchasing lighting fixtures. It is very frustrating and is NOT sales... Sales is selling someone what THEY want... lol

From the chat, it was obvious that they had an interest in Windows Phone. This was really poorly handled by these "sales" reps...

M_Lyons10 said,
I really can't stand people telling me what I should buy based on their bias. I just had this problem when purchasing lighting fixtures. It is very frustrating and is NOT sales... Sales is selling someone what THEY want... lol

From the chat, it was obvious that they had an interest in Windows Phone. This was really poorly handled by these "sales" reps...

Selling someone what they want is a cashiers job not sales. They will tell you that the first day of training. Sales is to ask questions and see what the true fit is for the customer. We tend to get way more return when we just sell you what you want without asking any questions.

Example: girl returned a windows phone... When I asked her why she got it in the first place she said the big screen and the pretty lime green color. When I asked her why she was returning it she said she couldn't find any cute cases that she liked. She exchanged it for an iPhone.
-__- most reps are going to sell you on what they think fits you not what they like. I love my Note 3 but doesn't mean I recommend it to all my customers.

The convo above he says he's new to smartphones and he says he makes calls and texts and some apps. This is very general and not specic.

As much as I don't like apple they are great for first timers. They have physical stores (way more than microsoft)that handle warranty/repairs and have classes on how to use the devices. People are so quick to jump on the sales reps but it's all about the person. They were going off of his answer.

We are moving from blackberry to windows phones at work and a lot of people soon as they find this out say that windows phone is crap.... and I always ask them have they used one before and the answer is always "NO" MS really need to have a think about how the company is portrayed in the real world, which isnt an easy task when the general public are already against them.

Been like this since the platform launched in 2010 and the irony is these are the same carriers that will get the best devices as exclusives. Yet they then go out of their way not to sell them, what kind of strategy is that, unless the actual aim is to kill WP? And Microsoft continues to go along with this even though the net effect is poor sales of WP devices instead of using their retail stores to sell direct to users. After all, what have they got to lose, its not as though the carriers can sell fewer handsets than they are now.....

Vishwal said,
But these reps are not lying. Android and some what iOS in US are ahead of WP and it's a bitter truth.

Do the reps talk about mailware on Android when discussing it with the customer?

hagjohn said,

Do the reps talk about mailware on Android when discussing it with the customer?

That's not what Brad had asked and Android is superior, wp isn't bad, I always prefer it over iOS but not over Android.

Raa said,
Does a car salesman talk about how you could potentially have a crash and suggest a different car?

That's not a proper comparison. Have some better example to back your claim.

Vishwal said,

That's not a proper comparison. Have some better example to back your claim.

I didn't make a claim.

I'm sure there is some impact on Windows Phone sales based on how the product is suggested (or not) by the various sales reps. I also think that a good number of people are simply not liking the Windows tiles look, even if they offer more functionality than other mobile OS icons.

After watching the lukewarm uptake on the Windows desktop, phone and tablets over the past couple of years, I would be willing to say that the Modern UI design elements in the OS are not as appealing to consumers. It was a great "thinking outside of the box" experiment on Microsoft's part, but Modern UI seems to not have been liked as much by consumers at large.

Modern UI seems to be very polarizing for people: They either love it or despise every bit of it. Not a lot of people in between.

Now that Windows Phone has matured as a platform and the added features of WP8.1 I am considering changing my next device to a WP device. I was going to go with a WP device but it was pre-cortana and pre WP8.1 and having played with the devices since then, Microsoft has clearly put a lot of effort to make their mobile platform finally have the functionality as the other platforms and they have done better with voice their assistant which seems to be geared towards how people naturally engage verbally in real life.

This page should be printed and posted (marked as urgent) straight to Nadella. THIS (here on Neowin.net) IS REAL FEEDBACK.

68k said,
This page should be printed and posted (marked as urgent) straight to Nadella. THIS (here on Neowin.net) IS REAL FEEDBACK.

Printed? Why, Nadella doesn't know about the Internet?

I'm gonna help you guys out and tell you exactly why reps hate selling Windows.

1st Sales Reps do not make any money off of what kind of phone you buy. We make money off of the features & Activation. So if you are not adding a line we are just getting paid hourly, We couldn't care less about what phone you get. In fact most people who come in the store looking for a "free upgrade" we suggest the windows phone cause they are usually 99 cents. The 1020 was 99 cents for almost 3 months. They are the quickest to drop in price due to low sales numbers.

Another thing is that 95% of the windows phone we do sell come back with in 14 days for an exchange. The other 4% come back with a bricked phone that boots the Nokia logo over and over again. (figuratively)

It's funny how all of you are saying we get paid more to sell a specific phone when Nokia does more contests and "prizes" (NO MONEY) then any other company. We have brand reps (Nokia,Samsung,lg) that visit and say if our store sells this amount we get a pizza party... ###### that we don't really care about.

All of you are acting like fan boys. As someone who has had every OS I can tell you my preference is android but understand that android isn't for everyone. I base it on what I think the customer will like based on the person.

In closing windows is barely catching up with apps. They got Pandora and Instagram just a little bit over a year ago. Most of you guys are complaining cause the phone you have isn't popular and you wanna blame it on sales. Truth is windows is getting better and smoother but it still left a bad taste in many people's mouth.

-From a sales rep who works at the 7th busiest store in the US.

If a sales rep tried to steer me away from a Windows Phone or Android, or any other device, after I clearly stated that's what I wanted, I'd take my business elsewhere.

And I'd complain about the rep's poor service to his manager.

If I'm asking for a recommendation, that's one thing. But if I'm specifically asking about a particular type of device, then it should be understood that I already have some idea of what I want, and don't appreciate being diverted to what the rep is guessing is best for me.

That reminds me, I actually need to send an email commending an AT&T rep's _excellent_ service - helped resolve an issue with my mom's new phone.

Edited by DConnell, Aug 15 2014, 5:45pm :

Have the same experience in Australia (in 2/3 stores). Windows Phones just aren't attractive. Windows Phone OS is (in one word) 'bland'. People like colors in an OS, not just two or three. The sales reps thought I was crazy wanting a Windows Phone (at the time I had an interest in purchasing one). 'Why would you choose that over an M8'? They're right, why would I?

The Windows Phone display model's screens also all had burn-in issues.

MICROSOFT, it's time to think about what's next after Metro, because it's not working. What is has done is caused a split in the Microsoft community, which isn't good.

Edited by 68k, Aug 15 2014, 3:05pm :

68k said,
Have the same experience in Australia (in 2/3 stores). Windows Phones just aren't attractive. Windows Phone OS is (in one word) 'bland'. People like colors in an OS, not just two or three. The sales reps thought I was crazy wanting a Windows Phone (at the time I had an interest in purchasing one). 'Why would you choose that over an M8'? They're right, why would I?

The Windows Phone display model's screens also all had burn-in issues.

MICROSOFT, it's time to think about what's next after Metro, because it's not working. What is has done is caused a split in the Microsoft community, which isn't good.


How is modern UI not working? Cause it seems like everyone want to copy it these days!

I will say that this is the biggest factor on why consumers are not purchasing WP. I've stated this multiple times here already that salesperson based their sales on their experience with the device or ecosystem they are using. I've actually even seen salesperson steering potential customers away from Windows Phone once they ask for it. Sometimes I feel like I want to jump in their conversation just to put the sales person in place.

RommelS said,
I will say that this is the biggest factor on why consumers are not purchasing WP. I've stated this multiple times here already that salesperson based their sales on their experience with the device or ecosystem they are using. I've actually even seen salesperson steering potential customers away from Windows Phone once they ask for it. Sometimes I feel like I want to jump in their conversation just to put the sales person in place.

Put us in our place? You must be a joy to work with... We recommend phones based on the specific person. To think that the phone you use will fit everyone's need is ridiculous. Fan boy as it's finest. I use and love android but I definitely don't suggest it to all my customers. It's all about the person.

Chey IDGAF said,

Put us in our place? You must be a joy to work with... We recommend phones based on the specific person. To think that the phone you use will fit everyone's need is ridiculous. Fan boy as it's finest. I use and love android but I definitely don't suggest it to all my customers. It's all about the person.

Oh I am sorry, did I hit a nerve somewhere there or did I mention it was you? Yes, I would like to put someone in their place especially if they are bad mouthing a product that they don't know about or use. Please, I was a sales person before too, and I know how to handle my customers. Granted, I was not selling phones, but I never gave my personal opinion to my customer unless they ask me to, but at the end, I still make them make their decision. Now a days, sales persons, especially when it comes to phones are very bias against Windows Phone, and that is based on the experienced that I've had, I've seen, and the articles examples above. Your move!

RommelS said,

Oh I am sorry, did I hit a nerve somewhere there or did I mention it was you? Yes, I would like to put someone in their place especially if they are bad mouthing a product that they don't know about or use. Please, I was a sales person before too, and I know how to handle my customers. Granted, I was not selling phones, but I never gave my personal opinion to my customer unless they ask me to, but at the end, I still make them make their decision. Now a days, sales persons, especially when it comes to phones are very bias against Windows Phone, and that is based on the experienced that I've had, I've seen, and the articles examples above. Your move!

You didn't hit a nerve. You just seem (I could be totally wrong since I don't know you personally) like a person who is very egotistical.

Going off your first post all you said was

"I've actually even seen salesperson steering potential customers away from Windows Phone once they ask for it. Sometimes I feel like I want to jump in their conversation just to put the sales person in place"

No where in that post did you say that the rep was giving misinformation. So I assumed based on the post, that the rep moved them away from it cause it wasn't the right device for them.

I had a customer return a windows phone cause there wasn't enough "cute cases for them"... you are assuming that everyone has the same mindset as you. Some consumers don't give a damn about spec or UI. When selling someone a phone they're gonna have for 2 years everything about them comes into play.

I agree I work with reps who know very little about windows phones but they will tell the consumer that they don't know Or they'll ask one of us who do know. I float to different stores and most reps will be up front with you.

Most people coming in already know what they want. Sorry you had a bad experience I honestly hope it wasn't my carrier that you had this experience at.

First of all, I am not egotistical, and I am far from it. I'm the type of person if I am wrong, I will admit to it. Second, you are assuming. You never assume.

I understand what you said when people comes in and know what they want, but there are sales rep out there that will still steer you away from Windows Phone, and I personally and a few of my co-workers have experience that. I would have not put that comment in the first place if I didn't experience it or actually have seen it. However, if a potential first time smartphone customer comes in and gets a rep that doesn't know anything about Windows Phone, then the customer is most likely will end up with something that the sale rep is using - Android Phone or iPhone.

Kind of makes you think on why salespersons still doesn't have the knowledge on what WP can offer. I've also experience that first hand ...but that is another story.

RommelS said,

Oh I am sorry, did I hit a nerve somewhere there or did I mention it was you? Yes, I would like to put someone in their place especially if they are bad mouthing a product that they don't know about or use. Please, I was a sales person before too, and I know how to handle my customers. Granted, I was not selling phones, but I never gave my personal opinion to my customer unless they ask me to, but at the end, I still make them make their decision. Now a days, sales persons, especially when it comes to phones are very bias against Windows Phone, and that is based on the experienced that I've had, I've seen, and the articles examples above. Your move!

You need to find a significant other.

RommelS said,
Gosh, another person that assumes. Sorry to disappoint, but I am happily married. Are you?

I have a gf.

And what does your wife say when you come home and tell her you were hounding Best Buy sales reps and annoying fellow customers?

Ah, GF ...got it.

First of all, I don't hound sales rep (you're assuming again), second I separate my tech life from my personal life. Speaking of ...my personal life is not the issue here, but if would like to talk about the article, I would love to have a lively conversation with on the said topic.

RommelS said,
Ah, GF ...got it.

First of all, I don't hound sales rep (you're assuming again), second I separate my tech life from my personal life. Speaking of ...my personal life is not the issue here, but if would like to talk about the article, I would love to have a lively conversation with on the said topic.

From what YOU said, you overhead a private conversation between a sales rep and another costumer and you jumped in and started hounding the sales rep. Then you started whipping out your phone and showing stuff to the customer. If I were that customers, I would have been freaked out by you. If I were that sales rep, I would have been laughing at you.

Seriously bro, there's more important things in life than going to stores and looking for "tech fights".

From what YOU said, you overhead a private conversation between a sales rep and another costumer and you jumped in and started hounding the sales rep. Then you started whipping out your phone and showing stuff to the customer. If I were that customers, I would have been freaked out by you. If I were that sales rep, I would have been laughing at you.

Seriously bro, there's more important things in life than going to stores and looking for "tech fights".


Dude, why do you assume? First of all READ, and READ properly, and don't put different meaning in my comments by inserting your own words. I said,

I've actually even seen salesperson steering potential customers away from Windows Phone once they ask for it. Sometimes I feel like I want to jump in their conversation just to put the sales person in place.
.

First, I didn't say that I would do it, I just said I feel like it because they're doing a disservice to the product. Second, no where in my statement about whipping out my phone - you said that. Where are you getting that? Third, please, don't tell me that you have not overheard a customer and a sales rep conversation before that is close to your vicinity? To be honest, it is not a private conversation if you are in a store talking about a merchandise. Fourth, tech fight? Where did you get that one as well? Your comments is laughable, and I suggest you THINK first ...ok.

Instagram has been used in several examples during this discussion. It appears it hasn't been updated since March. Some of Instagram's best features came in June of this year - the ability to fine tune several settings for each taken image. It seems like Windows Phone finally gets apps users have been clamoring for and then it is just kind of abandoned while the iOS and Android versions continue to be updated with new features and fixes.

Ostronyx said,
It's sad to see stupid people that don't know a thing about windows phone tarnishing its brand.

well so far those same people were the one that bought it and now abandon ship.

If MS had done a better job advertising the current integration in the Microsoft One plan and the upcoming integrations, then I would feel bad for them. They haven't done a good job of advertising these things in my opinion, so the they aren't a compelling feature set for people... yet.

Also, I guess it is still cool to hate Microsoft in general because they are Microsoft.

I love my Lumia 920 and am hoping the 930 makes it to the US some day, I'm also loving how easy it is to access my data from anywhere using nearly any device. Being able to see my open browsers from my tablet, phone or PC on another device is great.

Edited by zeke009, Aug 15 2014, 2:31pm :

I have walked into Verizon and Best Buy at least a couple of times over the year, and just acted like I wanted a Windows Phone. The vast majority of the time the sales people tried as hard as they could to sway me to an iphone. But the bigger problem I saw was the fact that the Windows phones got almost no real estate on the floor. When I took my parents to get phones, we had to ask for the Windows phones because it was not apparent they even had them at all. One of my Best Buy trips was interesting, as the sales Rep LOVED the Windows phone, and had sold every one they had. Three months later, this same Best Buy still did not have a single Windows Phone to sell. I've often thought Microsoft needed to do more for the Sales Reps so that they would at least try the phones and have a REAL opinion for the devices.

I had to call out a sales rep in a store once at a Best Buy. I was just browsing smartphones - not planning to upgrade my 920 anytime soon - and I overheard a conversation between a rep and a customer. The customer was looking at a 1020, maybe a 1320, I don't remember well. I heard the customer ask if they could use maps and apps like Instagram, and the sales rep actually said NO: he said that Google maps wasn't available for Windows Phone and Instagram had been having problems.

I could not resist and I had to interrupt the conversation. I told the rep he had the wrong information: the customer asked for maps, not Google maps, and the Here maps in Windows phone is an award winning app. Likewise I told them how Instagram was available and worked perfectly, to which the rep replied "but it's in Beta". I had to make an effort to not sound exasperated, and explained how to a user it didn't matter if it was in beta or not, but if it actually worked. At this point ignoring the sales rep, I showed the customer both Here maps and my Instagram feed on my 920, then told the sales rep to please stop blatantly lying to customers. The customer looked thanked me for my help, I don't know what she ended up buying but at least now she had more information to make a fair and educated decision on her purchase.

Xabier Granja said,
I had to call out a sales rep in a store once at a Best Buy. I was just browsing smartphones - not planning to upgrade my 920 anytime soon - and I overheard a conversation between a rep and a customer. The customer was looking at a 1020, maybe a 1320, I don't remember well. I heard the customer ask if they could use maps and apps like Instagram, and the sales rep actually said NO: he said that Google maps wasn't available for Windows Phone and Instagram had been having problems.

I could not resist and I had to interrupt the conversation. I told the rep he had the wrong information: the customer asked for maps, not Google maps, and the Here maps in Windows phone is an award winning app. Likewise I told them how Instagram was available and worked perfectly, to which the rep replied "but it's in Beta". I had to make an effort to not sound exasperated, and explained how to a user it didn't matter if it was in beta or not, but if it actually worked. At this point ignoring the sales rep, I showed the customer both Here maps and my Instagram feed on my 920, then told the sales rep to please stop blatantly lying to customers. The customer looked thanked me for my help, I don't know what she ended up buying but at least now she had more information to make a fair and educated decision on her purchase.

Good God, you need to get a hobby.

Indoobidubly said,

Good God, you need to get a hobby.

Is telling others they "need to get a hobby" one of those hobbies that you recommend?

Xabier Granja said,
.....

Good Job! I absolutely loathe the BestBuy staff. I walked around the downtown Calgary, AB location for over an hour correcting the staff.

Indoobidubly said,
.....

This is my hobby.

T-mobile does have an online chat option the people conducting this study are really dumb.

Out of all carriers Sprint has the absolute worse selection of windows phones.

I still get people asking me why i use such an "old" phone all the time. People do not realize that Windows Phone is not Windows Mobile. (I have a Nokia Lumia 928 running Windows Phone 8.1 update 1)

I thought about getting my Dad a Windows phone as his first smart phone but I was worried about the limited apps so I robbed a friend and bought his used iPhone 4s for $80 ... He really likes it.

Not really surprising considering these are US carriers. They recommend what's popular because that will likely result in the best user experience with the least regret.

If they did this sort of thing in Europe, it would probably have the same results except with Android phones.

The other problem is that Microsoft doesn't really advertise much. We see Samsung and Apple ads everywhere, but Microsoft is almost non-existent.

Saw the same thing. My mom had played with my WP and liked it. She also wanted a really large screen with big text that she could read easily. She saw the 1520 and decided it was the best phone for her. We went to ATT and the rep brought at three different Android phones to try to persuade her away from WP. We had to insist numerous times that we wanted a 1520.

I really don't believe they are getting paid to sway people, I think they are mobile enthusiasts who have a very strong preference and just cant help themselves.

I own a Lumia 620, a low-end Windows Phone. My colleague has a Galaxy Note II, a flagship Android. She was impressed on how easy Windows Phone is. She even said my low-end Lumia's camera is better than her Note II's.

I used to work at one of the mentioned US carriers. Most representatives think this way:

- I own an Android so I'll recommend an Android
- They say iPhone is good so I'll recommend them without knowing why iPhone is really good.
- They say Windows Phone has less apps so I'll divert them to Android or iPhone.

In Technical Care, we troubleshoot Samsung Galaxy phones all the time. ALL THE TIME! Yet my colleagues still love recommending them without thinking!

Charles Rainer said,

In Technical Care, we troubleshoot Samsung Galaxy phones all the time. ALL THE TIME! Yet my colleagues still love recommending them without thinking!

I'm sure many Windows Phones require screen replacements (due to drops, etc.) everyday also.

I'm not a fan of Samsungs. I've had my HTC for about two years now and it's still working as new.

It totally make sense, here in Mexico ALL carriers highly suggest Android phones against iPhones and/or Windows Phones.

It is expected, probably in 5 more years they will start suggesting Windows phone, once they remove that terrible and unfriendly and complex interface.

acido00 said,

It is expected, probably in 5 more years they will start suggesting Windows phone, once they remove that terrible and unfriendly and complex interface.

What? My grandma can figure out Windows Phone.

What complex, terrible and unfriendly interface?

Have you ever had a side-by-side comparison of Android and Windows Phone?

Users are expecting for icons arranged in grid which complicates the situation when using Windows Phone. Windows Phone is very easy to use. Why complicate it?

iOS is the most friendly.
Windows Phone is in second place.
Android is the third one, but people here offers android because "ALL features" they offer.. which of course Windows phone does not have.

acido00 said,
It totally make sense, here in Mexico ALL carriers highly suggest Android phones against iPhones and/or Windows Phones.

It is expected, probably in 5 more years they will start suggesting Windows phone, once they remove that terrible and unfriendly and complex interface.

What complete and utter fud. How is it unfriendly and complex? What is complex about it specifically?

Kenman said,
What complex, terrible and unfriendly interface?

Have you ever had a side-by-side comparison of Android and Windows Phone?

Yes. Android has so much more life and customizability. Windows Phone just looks to bland (to me at least). I'm not talking about $80 Chinese Android devices here. You get what you pay for. 'Decent' Android phones start at around $200, not under $100 (which most people use for comparisons).

acido00 said,
iOS is the most friendly.
Windows Phone is in second place.
Android is the third one, but people here offers android because "ALL features" they offer.. which of course Windows phone does not have.

That's exactly right!

having experience with all ecosystems, if someone asked me for an opinion of what phone to get, after the customer telling me they have never had a smart phone before, i too would suggest an iphone. Even if they had a smart phone, when recommending a phone, i suggest IOS, windows is good but apps are less "finished" and less features. Android (jellybean+) is good but has too many features to the point of confusion for most, while IOS... well... it just works.. :) IF windows apps were always identical (in use and design) to the other competitor platforms, I would suggest it "Windows or IOS"

(i say this with an note 2, s3, s4, 4s, and HTC 8X in front of me now)

I totally agree.

For a new smartphone user, the iPhone is the best choice. It's easy to use, everything works out of the box, and it's likely that a friend or family member already has an iOS device and can assist with any queries that the new user may experience along the way.

rippleman said,
while IOS... well... it just works..

LOL, every time i see this i puke.
Send me a picture over blutooth? - it just does not work!
Copy MP3 from any device via USB? - it just does not work!
Cusomize the homescreen? - it just does not work!

and this is only scratching the surface...

DaveBG said,

LOL, every time i see this i puke.
Send me a picture over blutooth? - it just does not work!
Copy MP3 from any device via USB? - it just does not work!
Cusomize the homescreen? - it just does not work!

and this is only scratching the surface...

Meh, iOS's bluetooth support is some of the weakest of all mobile platforms.

It's hilarious that in Apple's own CarPlay product, designed and built to work best with an iPhone, it'll still require a cabled connection out of the box where just about every single competing product in the same space works with Android 100% wirelessly.

rippleman said,

does every time i pick one up...

Seriously, do you need to read that "sending a file via Bluetooth" bit again, or will it rather be the "nobody needs that" defense?

i don't use bluetooth, as don't the larger percent of the population, so it applies.. You need it i assume, but because YOU need it doesn't mean I should like it or use it.

rippleman said,
i don't use bluetooth, as don't the larger percent of the population

And where, pray tell, did you get the "larger percent of the population"? Maybe the population of iOS users...

Charles Rainer said,
Worked at a major US carrier. No commissions on iPhone and Android.
Only.Dumb.Reps.
Not dumb, but real mobile enthusiasts who know what's best for their customers.

riiight.... except. many iphone and especially android customers would be better off with WP. your personal subjective view isn't how the rest of the world works.

HawkMan said,
riiight.... except. many iphone and especially android customers would be better off with WP. your personal subjective view isn't how the rest of the world works.

How do you know this? Aren't you just assuming this based off of your personal subjective view? Chill dude. You may love your windows phone but it doesn't mean it's for everyone.

68k said,
Not dumb, but real mobile enthusiasts who know what's best for their customers.

Totally incorrect. 99% of reps are there to help pay their way through college or university and have little to no product knowledge whatsoever, so they sell what they know which, sadly, is iOS and Android devices.

0.5% of reps are there for a career and still have little to no product knowledge.

The other 0.5% are mobile enthusiasts who sell to the customer based on the customer requirements i.e. the correct way to sell any product.

neo158 said,
.....

Now this is interesting.

Most (60% +) of my regional carrier staff are made up of unioned employees with 20+ years experience each.

Yeah its a bit of an uphill battle for MS in this respect as some places get extra commissions based on certain phones being sold and if its not that then it comes down to product knowledge. The online chat and in store staff knew sweet FA about windows phone devices when I purchased my 930.

Actually they knew the 1020 had a great camera.

Sadly enough the experience in some respects isn't much better on surface products. MS needs to find a way to establish itself better with consumers or embark on what would almost be a worldwide or very broad product knowledge campaign for the big places stocking their products.

I think part of the problem is that the branding of Lumia devices isn't transparent. It's pretty easy to figure out that the Galaxy S5 is better than the S4 or that the iPhone 5 is better than the iPhone 4 but less so when you're talking about the Lumia 920, 922, 925, 928 and 930. In fact I wasn't even aware that the Lumia 930 even existed, let alone that it is the current flagship.

The reality is that Windows Phone doesn't do anything better than Android or iOS. It has a different interface but that clearly hasn't been enough to generate interest. It doesn't have the app support of iOS or Android, it doesn't have the customisability of Android, it doesn't have the cutting edges specs offered by Android, it doesn't have the appeal of iOS, etc. The only thing it did have was better camera quality but clearly that wasn't enough, as most camera phones are more than adequate for the average user.

I wouldn't recommend a Windows Phone to anyone.

Could you be more biased (and wrong)?

Have you ever seen the "Smoked by Windows Phone" campaign?

it doesn't have the cutting edges specs offered by Android

What specs are you lacking?

Lets have a look at two new phones from running Android and Windows Phone.
Galaxy S5 vs Lumia 930

5.1" vs 5.0"
1920 x 1080 AMOLED vs 1920 x 1080 Clearblack OLED
432 ppi vs 441 ppi

16MP vs 20MP (with PureView) camera
Single LED vs Dual LED Flash
SnapDragon 801 (2.5) vs Snapdragon 800 (2.2 ghz)
2gb RAM vs 2gb RAM
32gb vs 32gb memory

2800mAh vs 2420 mAh
21 hrs vs 21.7 hrs Max Talk time
16.2 days vs 18 days Standby time

Normal charging vs Wireless (Qi)

Now please tell me, what specs you lack in a Windows Phone? Also, bare in mind, that the WP platform is highly optimized - you can't really say the same about Android.

customisability of Android

The average consumer don't care about customizations - otherwise iPhone's wouldn't be popular.

App support of iOS or Android

Depends on what kinds of apps you are looking for. Personally I don't lack any, but might just be my "luck". Thousands of apps are added all the time and the biggest ones are showing up at an okay pace as well.

Which do you lack?

It seems to me like you never had a Windows Phone 8 device - Try it, just once.

theyarecomingforyou said,
I think part of the problem is that the branding of Lumia devices isn't transparent. It's pretty easy to figure out that the Galaxy S5 is better than the S4 or that the iPhone 5 is better than the iPhone 4 but less so when you're talking about the Lumia 920, 922, 925, 928 and 930. In fact I wasn't even aware that the Lumia 930 even existed, let alone that it is the current flagship.

The reality is that Windows Phone doesn't do anything better than Android or iOS. It has a different interface but that clearly hasn't been enough to generate interest. It doesn't have the app support of iOS or Android, it doesn't have the customisability of Android, it doesn't have the cutting edges specs offered by Android, it doesn't have the appeal of iOS, etc. The only thing it did have was better camera quality but clearly that wasn't enough, as most camera phones are more than adequate for the average user.

I wouldn't recommend a Windows Phone to anyone.

Huh?

I think you nailed it. The WP app selection is just weak, and this is what 99% of consumers want. The functionality on WP is either behind or just flat out not there. If someone asked me for a smartphone recommendation, I would judge their needs and send them to iOS or Android. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see WP succeed, the more options consumers have, the better. I love the improvements they have been making, but it's nothing Android/iOS haven't done before...

I think you nailed it. The WP app selection is just weak, and this is what 99% of consumers want. The functionality on WP is either behind or just flat out not there. If someone asked me for a smartphone recommendation, I would judge their needs and send them to iOS or Android. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see WP succeed, the more options consumers have, the better. I love the improvements they have been making, but it's nothing Android/iOS haven't done before...

Which Apps do you think is missing from WP?
What functionality is not there?

Please tell me how Android and iOS have implemented features such as
WiFi-Sense,
ChkDisk (to do error checking and correction of data on SD Cards)
App Store for Corporations
Kids Corner
Advertising ID
Glance
Device Hub
Policies for locking Down phone when used in Enterprise environments
Office Lens
...

I love it how the naysayers fall back on "app selection is weak" and then don't bother to back that up by telling us which apps in-particular they are missing? The vast majority of the big name apps are now there in first-party form, with many quality third-party apps filling in the gaps.

I gave my Lumia 1320 to my sis. She used iPhone 5c. I admit she likes the 6" screen of Lumia. But she loathes the OS. She also calls me once a week asking "When is Candy Crush Saga releasing for WP8?" These days, she is getting more and more annoyed with her phone. She is tired of waiting for few of her "go to" apps and has decided to go for the largest iPhone which would be released and is willing to throw any amount of money for it. :(

tsupersonic said,
I think you nailed it. The WP app selection is just weak, and this is what 99% of consumers want. The functionality on WP is either behind or just flat out not there. If someone asked me for a smartphone recommendation, I would judge their needs and send them to iOS or Android. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see WP succeed, the more options consumers have, the better. I love the improvements they have been making, but it's nothing Android/iOS haven't done before...

Your comment shows that Microsoft has to do a lot more advertising and informing the public about its phone OS.

Kenman said,
What specs are you lacking?

Lets have a look at two new phones from running Android and Windows Phone.
Galaxy S5 vs Lumia 930

5.1" vs 5.0"
1920 x 1080 AMOLED vs 1920 x 1080 Clearblack OLED
432 ppi vs 441 ppi

16MP vs 20MP (with PureView) camera
Single LED vs Dual LED Flash
SnapDragon 801 (2.5) vs Snapdragon 800 (2.2 ghz)
2gb RAM vs 2gb RAM
32gb vs 32gb memory

2800mAh vs 2420 mAh
21 hrs vs 21.7 hrs Max Talk time
16.2 days vs 18 days Standby time

Normal charging vs Wireless (Qi)

Now please tell me, what specs you lack in a Windows Phone? Also, bare in mind, that the WP platform is highly optimized - you can't really say the same about Android.

The Galaxy S5 isn't the most advanced Android phone.

LG G3 vs Lumia 930:

2560x1440 vs 1920x1080
5.5" vs 5.1"
534 PPI vs 432 PPI

13MP vs 20MP (as I said, the Lumia range has better cameras)

3000mAh vs 2800mAh
Replaceable battery vs non-removable

2.46GHz vs 2.2GHz
2GB RAM vs 2GB RAM

microSD slot vs no expandable memory

Wireless charging vs wireless charging

.

Also, it took a long time from the Lumia 920 to the 930 whereas Android flagships are coming out all the time. Windows Phone doesn't even support resolutions above 1080p yet and was slow to support 1080p, not to mention other technologies (NFC, fingerprint scanners, etc). Windows Phone is behind the curve when it comes to supporting cutting edge technology.

As for apps, there are still lots of occasions where I see games advertised for iOS and Android without any mention of Windows Phone. There are also numerous apps I've checked that aren't available on Windows Phone, mainly games. The point isn't that the app selection of Windows Phone is bad - it's just that it's indisputably better on iOS and Android.

TCLN Ryster said,
I love it how the naysayers fall back on "app selection is weak" and then don't bother to back that up by telling us which apps in-particular they are missing? The vast majority of the big name apps are now there in first-party form, with many quality third-party apps filling in the gaps.

It is weak. I've been installing some home automations that's available on the market such as http://www.rainmachine.com/connect.html and http://www.liftmaster.com/lmcv2/connectedhome.htm and not yet available such as https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...a-smart-light?ref=discovery, none of them have an app for Windows Phone support. I've asked them if they do plan to support in the future, they did answered that they will... but eventually. They do have alternative solution without having an app, but it really sucks. Short term, this platform lacks apps selection.

I'm not sure about long term, really this platform didn't bring any excitement to third party developers. Starwood hotel would create an app for google glass, even though the adoption rate is really low while ignore WP platform. As long as this attitude is going on, Windows phone will not go anywhere.

Kenman said,

Galaxy S5 vs Lumia 930

5.1" vs 5.0"
1920 x 1080 AMOLED vs 1920 x 1080 Clearblack OLED
432 ppi vs 441 ppi

The PPI is actually wrong, it doesn't account for samsung horrible pentile AMOLED which gives it a significantly reduced sub pixel count, and thus lower real PPI.

theyarecomingforyou said,
In fact I wasn't even aware that the Lumia 930 even existed, let alone that it is the current flagship.

Considering the amount of time you spend of this site, I find that hard to believe...

d5aqoëp said,
She is tired of waiting for few of her "go to" apps and has decided to go for the largest iPhone which would be released and is willing to throw any amount of money for it. :(
So she's going to pay >$1000 for the iPhone6 (the 5.5 inch 128GB version) so she can play Candy Crush? must be a blonde.. There's plenty of equivalent if not better versions of the same gametype available in the WP store..

paulheu said,
So she's going to pay >$1000 for the iPhone6 (the 5.5 inch 128GB version) so she can play Candy Crush? must be a blonde.. There's plenty of equivalent if not better versions of the same gametype available in the WP store..

She is not blonde. She is female and that's how female logic works.

paulheu said,
So she's going to pay >$1000 for the iPhone6 (the 5.5 inch 128GB version) so she can play Candy Crush? must be a blonde.. There's plenty of equivalent if not better versions of the same gametype available in the WP store..

I didn't know that iPhone 6 with 128gb came out.

theyarecomingforyou said,
Windows Phone doesn't even support resolutions above 1080p yet and was slow to support 1080p, not to mention other technologies (NFC, fingerprint scanners, etc). Windows Phone is behind the curve when it comes to supporting cutting edge technology.

Who needs more than 1080p on a 5" device? Seriously?
My two-monitor setup at home is running 2x 1080p on 2x 22" screens.
My two-monitor setup at Work is running 2x 1920*1200 on 2x 22" screens.
My flatscreen TVs are 32" running 1080p.

It is nothing but marketing Words! If you seriously buy a phone because it has a larger resolution - you were fooled.

Windows Phone have had NFC since WP 8.

.... have you been brainwashed by Apple to believe that fingerprint scanners are even remotely secure or useful in phones?

Don't believe every word originating from Marketing campaigns..

Par for the course. Unless you brandish a WP device to a rep in person, they're going to direct you elsewhere. First problem is the lack of devices. The local AT&T store has two, count them, two phones. The 1020 which is aging (but still /drool) and the 1520 which is way too big for my taste. The reps just do NOT know these devices. You can tell the reps don't play with them as both devices had 20+ available updates. Maybe it's just me but when I saw that apps needed to be updated, I just got it out of the way. The rep I talked to was the most knowledgeable rep I'd spoken to in nearly 4 years but even he was an Android guy.

All I can say is get more devices into these stores. Buy your way in, MS. It's arrogant and foolish to assume people will love that tiny selection of devices. Also, the exclusives are just stupid. I'm glad I was able to get a 920 but I had a couple of friends that opted for other phones because their carrier didn't offer anything like the 920 at the time.

I just hope that under the new CEO and with the buying of Nokia, they'll realize they need to get more exposure. That means multiple devices in all stores. If people see them then eventually the reps will have to learn them and hey, they might even like them. Get on it, MS.

laserfloyd said,
Par for the course. Unless you brandish a WP device to a rep in person, they're going to direct you elsewhere. First problem is the lack of devices. The local AT&T store has two, count them, two phones. The 1020 which is aging (but still /drool) and the 1520 which is way too big for my taste. The reps just do NOT know these devices. You can tell the reps don't play with them as both devices had 20+ available updates. Maybe it's just me but when I saw that apps needed to be updated, I just got it out of the way. The rep I talked to was the most knowledgeable rep I'd spoken to in nearly 4 years but even he was an Android guy.

All I can say is get more devices into these stores. Buy your way in, MS. It's arrogant and foolish to assume people will love that tiny selection of devices. Also, the exclusives are just stupid. I'm glad I was able to get a 920 but I had a couple of friends that opted for other phones because their carrier didn't offer anything like the 920 at the time.

I just hope that under the new CEO and with the buying of Nokia, they'll realize they need to get more exposure. That means multiple devices in all stores. If people see them then eventually the reps will have to learn them and hey, they might even like them. Get on it, MS.

You've nailed it. The problem with Microsoft is the lack of choice and exclusivity mess. Right now the 930 is the best Windows Phone. Unfortunately is only available with Verizon. This is beyond stupid.

laserfloyd said,
Par for the course. Unless you brandish a WP device to a rep in person, they're going to direct you elsewhere. First problem is the lack of devices. The local AT&T store has two, count them, two phones. The 1020 which is aging (but still /drool) and the 1520 which is way too big for my taste. The reps just do NOT know these devices. You can tell the reps don't play with them as both devices had 20+ available updates. Maybe it's just me but when I saw that apps needed to be updated, I just got it out of the way. The rep I talked to was the most knowledgeable rep I'd spoken to in nearly 4 years but even he was an Android guy.

All I can say is get more devices into these stores. Buy your way in, MS. It's arrogant and foolish to assume people will love that tiny selection of devices. Also, the exclusives are just stupid. I'm glad I was able to get a 920 but I had a couple of friends that opted for other phones because their carrier didn't offer anything like the 920 at the time.

I just hope that under the new CEO and with the buying of Nokia, they'll realize they need to get more exposure. That means multiple devices in all stores. If people see them then eventually the reps will have to learn them and hey, they might even like them. Get on it, MS.

You've nailed it. The problem with Microsoft is the lack of choice and exclusivity mess. Right now the 930 is the best Windows Phone. Unfortunately is only available for Verizon. This is beyond stupid.

CarlDilone said,
You've nailed it. The problem with Microsoft is the lack of choice and exclusivity mess. Right now the 930 is the best Windows Phone. Unfortunately is only available with Verizon. This is beyond stupid.
Sure they do, it's called the Icon which _IS_ the 930.

paulheu said,
Sure they do, it's called the Icon which _IS_ the 930.

Yeah, it is and which carrier is it exclusive to?

This is typical uneducated "sales" people. You can tell these people easily since they only recommend what they use and have little to no info about what else is out there. Really has nothing to do with WP or any other product.

8.1 was supposed to be out in June, it's August 15. WinPhone is such a good platform but IPhone is the safe bet. Make it compelling and they will come. It's not compelling enough yet, I hope they double down and don't give up. Persistence is their most admirable quality. So many good things to come. How long will it take before Universal apps prevail?

My experience was similar but maybe not so extreme. Once I stated that I was not interested in and iPhone or Android device, they (Verizion) were happy to show me a Windows Phone. Unfortunately it was clear that the sales associate knew less than I did about them.

This was going on before iPhone even existed, back then it was why would you want windows mobile phone, get a blackberry instead

same issue since day 1. nokia never had the promotions they needed to win over sales reps. free phones, additional payment per phone sold, etc are the way you move devices, unless you're apple.
if i can make 15$ selling every galaxy or 0$ selling a lumia, imma sell a galaxy.

sweatshopking said,
same issue since day 1. nokia never had the promotions they needed to win over sales reps. free phones, additional payment per phone sold, etc are the way you move devices, unless you're apple.
if i can make 15$ selling every galaxy or 0$ selling a lumia, imma sell a galaxy.

As someone who works at a carrier I can tell you this is false. First off we make no money on upgrades or what phone you grab. Customers like you think you guys are doing us a huge favor when you get an "expensive phone"... but we don't give a damn. Upgrades waste our time we get commission on Activations & features (insurance and so on).So if you are not adding a line we are just getting paid hourly, We couldn't care less about what phone you get. Just being honest.

So why do you guys obviously push iPhones so hard, hands down? Just curious - dead obvious from these sales chats. Even surprised how Android is doing so well when the iPhone is the number one device being pushed so aggressively even if the customer asks for a different one...

Obry said,
So why do you guys obviously push iPhones so hard, hands down?

Read his reply again - he doesn't care which phone you go for, however as someone above me suggested, I expect carriers prefer that their customers stick with one a phone for an extended period of time. If customers go for an iPhone or Android device, they will likely be satisfied with it for at least a few years...a Windows phone, with it's limited appstore, probably less so.

Obry said,
So why do you guys obviously push iPhones so hard, hands down? Just curious - dead obvious from these sales chats. Even surprised how Android is doing so well when the iPhone is the number one device being pushed so aggressively even if the customer asks for a different one...

Being dead honest most people already come in knowing what they want. Many people come in wanting iPhone only because it's an iPhone. We call them isheep. Most consumers that I ask oh why are you getting this phone? They usually say cause someone else in their family has that phone. Which i understand because if they don't know how to do something on the phone they can simply ask a family member.

I rarely try to convince someone to switch unless they are interested in switching OS because people hate change. Most people who switch OS switch back the next upgrade.

Chey IDGAF said,

Being dead honest most people already come in knowing what they want

I was thinking this is the truth. On my view, MSFT need good advert. In México you can see a TV ad about WP once every fourth months. The phones in here are the high-cost. The low-cost are here now, but is too late.. needs more time

And as everybody knows, WP ads are not the best. The best one are the created by users

Also, updates. Are good but takes so long. Even we don't have Cyan yet. Black update took 6 months since launch

WP 8.1 update 1 is great btw

We actively push away from the iPhone on the basis that it makes us zero money. At the telco I work for, we promote the Windows Phone and Android handsets far above the iPhone as simply put, they make us more money, while they are often superior devices to boot

Yup, its crazy how bad the Verizon stores are with Windows Phones. I've had friends and family go in asking, only to be told they shouldn't get them and should go Android or Apple instead.

Even my own experiences that reps are super biased and know little to nothing about Windows Phone, instead pushing Android.

Yeah, thought this behavior was a known fact. I once tried such a test for myself and went to a store acting like I didn't know that much about smartphone OS's. Clearly making references to Windows Phone devices, the only thing they would recommend to me was the iPhone or Galaxy S4. Which is weird, because I didn't know those 2 had social integration, work great with my OS (which was Windows 8), where able to handle Office well, where available in blue, and did a good job with integrating with my Microsoft Account.

I'll be honest, this isn't surprising to me, but I am curious why they are pushing other phones. It is a company policy to push one phone over another? It is about special kick-backs that Apple and the Android manufactures offer to the carriers that Microsoft isn't?

I really want Microsoft and the carriers to respond to this. I can't imagine Microsoft doesn't already know this is happening. A giant like Microsoft is bound to have all kinds of market research data on why they aren't able to sell their products.

Nevertheless, fascinating article.

That makes sense. And they would have data based on that. If that's what these other companies are doing, then it still falls back on Microsoft. Either way, I'd like to see what Microsoft and these specific carriers have to say about this story.

Early on AT&T was pretty adamant that they would push the Windows Phone as the Lumia 920 came out to their stores. That was my experience early on as the few stores I went to the sales people on the floor had Lumia devices and pushed Windows Phone. However, as time goes on their push changes like a leaf on the wind.

I've said repeatedly that MS needs to counter this problem with stores-in-stores. MS however continues with its failed approach. I don't know if stores-in-stores lose money. Maybe MS can strike deals to make its own reps, dedicated to selling only MS products, work in telecom stores. One way or the other, MS needs to solve this problem.

Hurmoth said,
It is about special kick-backs that Apple and the Android manufactures offer to the carriers that Microsoft isn't?

If there are kickbacks, then it's the individual salesperson receiving them, because carriers have to pay bigger subsidies with iPhones than with any other device. IOW, they make less money pushing iPhones than any other device.

As per what the reps said, that would be because they aren't as good as the competition!

You would need to want only to buy Microsoft, rather than what is best, to buy a windows phone.