Editorial

Why Windows Phone doesn't need dual-core processors

I’m a great believer in moving technology forward when it is really needed, be it in UI, memory, processors, screens and even more so with new ideas. What I don’t believe in is trying to push technology when it isn’t needed by the majority or when it will make little or no difference other than added cost or be a feature that doesn’t get full use for a couple of years.

Some people have said that dual-core processors in mobile phones are a must have right now; I don’t feel this is true for the most part. Yes some Android devices have had dual-core processors for sometime, but there are a number of excellent phones such as the Xperia Arc and the new Arc S that don’t and they do just as good a job as any dual-core device out there right now. It seems to me that dual-core is just good for the marketing side at the moment.

Recent Windows Phone devices such as the Nokia 800 and the HTC Titan have come under fire from some sides for not having the latest cutting edge hardware such as dual-cores and higher end memory, but anyone who has made use of a Windows Phone knows that at the moment there have been no apps or games that have shown any sign of slow down or performance issues despite this.

If you have used a Windows Phone you’ll know that it isn’t designed in the same way that Android has been or iOS for that matter. Microsoft has managed to design the OS to be very fast and efficient on single-core processors allowing the UI to be fast and smooth while assisting the GPU with games, graphics and some great multimedia work.

Adding a dual-core processor into the mix isn't always a great option for those who want decent battery life, there has been numerous reports of lesser battery life on a host of Android devices which made use of these chips earlier in the year, though reports stated that this was a software issue, it has taken a long time to resolve and still plagues early adopters. Many users also complain that Android OS just wasn't optimised enough for dual-core anyway and it'll still take some time before it is, maybe Microsoft are making sure when they choose to go with the newer CPU's, they'll do it the right way.

Many people claim that dual-core processors will improve the gaming side of things in mobile devices; I’d disagree as most mobile gaming isn’t using up too much CPU time, it is nearly always the GPU and the Adreno 205 GPU’s have certainly done a decent job so far, though it is a side I would like to see upgraded soon. This is even more of the case on the side of Windows Phone 7 devices, which have all had to ship with a GPU since launch, though recent game releases such as Kinectimals on the OS have show a far smoother framerate on newer phones which make use of the Adreno 205 GPU rather than the original 200 model.

An excellent example of the difference a GPU can make not just in games, but with the smoothness of a higher resolution GUI on both Android and Windows Phone devices has been shown in benchmarks on the MobileTechWorld site. The benchmark shows just how much improvement there is with the latest Adreno 220 GPU running on the Android powered HTC Sensation. 

Users can also be blinded by the “bigger is better” aspect of advertising, forgetting that applications have to recognise the additional processor to make use of it, something that hasn’t been happening too fast on both iOS or on the Android operating system. There has been no sign of any processing issues on Windows Phone applications so far; they have all been doing an excellent job on some very fast single core processing.

I have yet to see an Android application that has run better than a Windows Phone counterpart in both speed and performance (games aside) and I’d much rather have a stable platform over all devices than the fragmentation that has happened with Android hardware and software anytime. Heck some applications such as Spotify not only run better on Windows Phone, they look better too.

Some argue that if Microsoft doesn’t have dual-core processors in their phones soon then consumers will be left behind in the next couple of years. The Lumia 800 can be used as an example as it high speed single core device. My view here is that in two years time most devices available at the moment will out of date as technology moves forward, but the Lumia will still run most applications perfectly well and there will be far more dual-core software out by that time. Infinity Blade and Real Racing 2 are both iOS games that have had dual-core enhancements released for them while still looking fantastic on single-core iPhones.

The best example I can find is how long it has taken Android applications to start making decent use of dual-core processors, they have been around a year and yet they are still not widespread or as stable as they should be. I’m on a single core Android phone and I’m still not left behind with applications designed 2 years down the line and neither will current Windows Phone users.

I'm certainly not against a move to new chips, while Microsoft has never said that they are completely against using dual-core processors either, especially as multi-core support will be coming with upcoming Apollo Windows Phone update. After all, what is the point of over-sized screens and multiple processor cores when consumers can’t make any use of them, as there are not any applications that make use of those cores effectively and current applications run perfectly well and will in the future?

Report a problem with article
Previous Story

This week's highlights in new game releases: November 14-20

Next Story

Adobe rep offers more info on Flash Android support

98 Comments

Commenting is disabled on this article.

You realize you contradicted yourself, right? On current phones the CPU a d GPU are together as one SoC. So saying that dual-core doesn't matter for games and then comparing to the GPU on the Sensation (which comes with dual core CPU based SoC) makes you look a bit silly.

WisdomWolf said,
You realize you contradicted yourself, right? On current phones the CPU a d GPU are together as one SoC. So saying that dual-core doesn't matter for games and then comparing to the GPU on the Sensation (which comes with dual core CPU based SoC) makes you look a bit silly.

Fact that they are on the same piece of silicon doesnt mean that they are one unit, they are still two separate integrated circuits and the only thing they share is heat

Not only do WP devices have outdated CPU's but what about their outdated GPU's, small amount of RAM, lo resolution displays?

They are crippled everywhere you look

Cash Money Billionaire said,
Not only do WP devices have outdated CPU's but what about their outdated GPU's, small amount of RAM, lo resolution displays?

They are crippled everywhere you look

For what it's worth, the RAM isn't important. Most Windows Phone's the same amount of RAM as the iPhone for the same reasons - those two OS's just don't need more RAM right now, due to the way their multitasking is designed.

Cash Money Billionaire said,
Not only do WP devices have outdated CPU's but what about their outdated GPU's, small amount of RAM, lo resolution displays?

Let's compare with HTC Titan:
Outdated CPU with 1.5 GHz
Outdated 512 MB RAM (Omg, then your lovely iPhone 4 is outdated!)
Low screen resolution: 800*480

(There's not only 1 WP7 device)

There should always be a need for a platform to become a little faster, a little more feature rich, a little more battery efficient, etc. Otherwise, the platform is dead.

The real question is, Why not? People apparently want them. what is the big deal? Even if it won't help any, people still want it! Just give it to the people and be done with it. Otherwise your going to lose those customers when they get dual core or faster androids.

there are always people that say "we dont need more!" this has happened w/ every generation of technology. Windows 98SE is great, why do i need XP??? why would i need more than 512k of RAM!? who needs a quad core cpu when the software can only take advantage of 2 cores!? rabble!

Multi-core is not needed on WP7 because they have no apps that require it. The third party developer support on WP7 is so bad that the apps released simply don't make use of advanced resources. Also, the UI, having been developed by Fisher Price, also doesn't make use of that kind of resource. I am not trolling, I am just speaking from the negative experience I have had owning a WP7. I have since replaced it with a Samsung Galaxy S2X and I see no compelling reason, for me, to go back to that limited platform.

vladmphoto said,
Multi-core is not needed on WP7 because they have no apps that require it. The third party developer support on WP7 is so bad that the apps released simply don't make use of advanced resources. Also, the UI, having been developed by Fisher Price, also doesn't make use of that kind of resource. I am not trolling, I am just speaking from the negative experience I have had owning a WP7. I have since replaced it with a Samsung Galaxy S2X and I see no compelling reason, for me, to go back to that limited platform.

What exactly was it that you were unable to do on a WP7 phone?

vladmphoto said,
Multi-core is not needed on WP7 because they have no apps that require it. The third party developer support on WP7 is so bad that the apps released simply don't make use of advanced resources. Also, the UI, having been developed by Fisher Price, also doesn't make use of that kind of resource. I am not trolling, I am just speaking from the negative experience I have had owning a WP7. I have since replaced it with a Samsung Galaxy S2X and I see no compelling reason, for me, to go back to that limited platform.

This guy is a troll. A decent number of well coded apps on Windows Phone could do with better hardware at the moment, and do push the bounds if what is capable hardware wise. And Silverlight is powerful and demanding enough to require and liekly able to make good use of dual cores.

~Johnny said,

This guy is a troll. A decent number of well coded apps on Windows Phone could do with better hardware at the moment, and do push the bounds if what is capable hardware wise. And Silverlight is powerful and demanding enough to require and liekly able to make good use of dual cores.

Silverlight is dead. Has been dead for a long time. In fact, the only ones that still (and have ever) used Silverlight are Microsoft (of course) and Netflix. I am not a troll. I have owned at least one phone from every platform (the iPhone 3G and 4, the BlackBerry Bold 9700, the HTC Mozart and HTC Pro, HTC Nexus One, Samsung Nexus S, Samsung Galaxy S2X) so I think I have earned the right to criticize what I don't like. Out of all the platforms, I liked WP7 the least. It is the most restrictive and the one with the least amount of support from both developers and community. The apps, at the time I had the WP7 device were few and poor. The WP7 interface is a clogged with social vomit and it's not something that serious people look for. I don't constantly want to be messaging like bozo and seeing what stupid activities people are engaged in. Most people feel the same way.

vladmphoto said,
....

One - you're worng. Plenty of other people have used Silverlight, not just Microsoft and Netflix. But I'd assume you're too igorant to acknowledge that. And Silverlight is still under active developement, and forms part of the core developement platforms of Windows Phone and the upcoming Windows 8 immersive environment. Far from dead - it's actually now under more use than it's ever been, period.

And all the social stuff in Windows Phone is optional - but good forbid actual human beings would like to own a device and actaully be able to keep up with people that are important to them, whether buisness or personal, and not just mindless worker drones whose entire life in revolves around super serious business work And it's your own fault for picking out poor apps. Even the ones I've developed have been there since launch, with nearly 5 star averages - and I'm someone who's never made a proper app before or even works in the computing industry.

~Johnny said,

One - you're worng. Plenty of other people have used Silverlight, not just Microsoft and Netflix. But I'd assume you're too igorant to acknowledge that. And Silverlight is still under active developement, and forms part of the core developement platforms of Windows Phone and the upcoming Windows 8 immersive environment. Far from dead - it's actually now under more use than it's ever been, period.

And all the social stuff in Windows Phone is optional - but good forbid actual human beings would like to own a device and actaully be able to keep up with people that are important to them, whether buisness or personal, and not just mindless worker drones whose entire life in revolves around super serious business work And it's your own fault for picking out poor apps. Even the ones I've developed have been there since launch, with nearly 5 star averages - and I'm someone who's never made a proper app before or even works in the computing industry.

......yeah, Silverlight is not dead, it lives in the heart of Microsoft products.....WELL NO ****!
The social "stuff" as you call it makes up a large part of WP7 and if you turn it off then WP7 truly becomes bland. The WP7 interface is great, I will say that. The effects are awesome and there is no discernible lag when using touch gestures. However, it is a very locked down O/S and if you want to do anything more than what the O/S allows.....you can't. Look, I am not trying to convince you of anything. You clearly like simplicity, spoon-feeding and to not be given many options to choose from so naturally you support WP7. I, however have quickly reached its limitations because I actually do work in the computing industry as an enterprise app. developer so I like to tweak things and customize to my heart's content. To me, iOS and WP7 are too rudimentary and limited, but to each his own. For me, WP7 is just a very cheap alternative to iOS and Android but offers nothing you can't already get in iOS or Android, it does not stand out as its own entity.

"multi-core support will be coming with upcoming Apollo Windows Phone update" so windows phone will join the multi-core party when Apollo update is released. that tells us that multi-core support on Windows Phones is simply not possible now and not that there is no need to faster processing on phones!!!

stop excusing Microsoft of being slow!

What happened with Windows Mobile? they simply stood there not improving it until Apple and Google came around and knocked them so hard that they had to dish that OS completely and rebuild it in order to complete! And that is a fact!

parisp said,
"multi-core support will be coming with upcoming Apollo Windows Phone update" so windows phone will join the multi-core party when Apollo update is released. that tells us that multi-core support on Windows Phones is simply not possible now and not that there is no need to faster processing on phones!!!

stop excusing Microsoft of being slow!

What happened with Windows Mobile? they simply stood there not improving it until Apple and Google came around and knocked them so hard that they had to dish that OS completely and rebuild it in order to complete! And that is a fact!


+1

parisp said,
"multi-core support will be coming with upcoming Apollo Windows Phone update" so windows phone will join the multi-core party when Apollo update is released. that tells us that multi-core support on Windows Phones is simply not possible now and not that there is no need to faster processing on phones!!!

stop excusing Microsoft of being slow!

What happened with Windows Mobile? they simply stood there not improving it until Apple and Google came around and knocked them so hard that they had to dish that OS completely and rebuild it in order to complete! And that is a fact!

They had to ditch it because times changed and it needed to completely be revamped so they were better off dumping it entirely and starting afresh. I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of WP7 I'm talking dual-cores.

parisp said,
"multi-core support will be coming with upcoming Apollo Windows Phone update" so windows phone will join the multi-core party when Apollo update is released. that tells us that multi-core support on Windows Phones is simply not possible now and not that there is no need to faster processing on phones!!!

stop excusing Microsoft of being slow!
...


There's rumor that MS wants to unify the the NT kernel with Windows 8 because it already has SMP support. There's little reason to bandage the WinCE kernel to do the same. The Windows 8 kernel would replace the WinCE kernel for Windows Phone 8. This is a kernel change only and not the UI itself.

Imagine if MS is able to unify the NT kernel for Windows, Xbox, and Windows Phone. Their development and support cost would probably go down tremendously.

Caveman-ugh said,
What gets me is that not long Neowin was saying there WAS a need for dual cpu's......please make up your minds !!

That was an editorial from a different writer - this is a different view. Editorials are opinion pieces from each editor, not Neowin's view as a site.

Konstantine said,

Try playing Shadowgun on 1 GHz CPU. No wait, you can't. -.-

You can - it's called the iPhone 4 version that works fine here ;o)

Byron_Hinson said,

You can - it's called the iPhone 4 version that works fine here ;o)

WTF does the iPhone have to do with WP7? iPhone has a better GPU

The article has one glaring omission:

A dual core chip does not have to equate to battery life drainage.

In fact, for miscellaneous moderate power tasks , a dual core WILL SAVE BATTERY life.
Scaling works differently. For example if you have two 1 GHz cores clocked at 500 Mhz each they'll draw on X power.

One core at 500 Mhz is sluggish. Suppose 1 Ghz gives you the same performance. To sustain that clock you need a lot more power. In fact you need more than twice as much.

But because we have two powerful cores in the mix at an under clocked frequency, they'll perform on par with a really low footprint.

So for this alone, a dual core will be more power efficient if you don't game all day.

dknm said,
So for this alone, a dual core will be more power efficient if you don't game all day.
And if you don't game all day, there's no reason TO have a dual core CPU. I have yet to find an app that's CPU bound, and not just poorly written.

greenwizard88 said,
And if you don't game all day, there's no reason TO have a dual core CPU. I have yet to find an app that's CPU bound, and not just poorly written.

As a Windows Phone developer, I can tell you a LOT of my application design is restricted by the processing power of phones. You keep having to continually reduce and reduce and over simplify pages to achieve a decent rate of fluid performance, which restricts what you can do and what you want to do. Even something as simple as adding a full page transition can double the fill rate on complex pages, which is insane. end up having to cut a lot of nice ideas just to keep performance up, with leads to a nice, though a little uninspired and sparse visual design.

For what it's worth - the "Official" Facebook application is a good example of an application greatly restricted by the phones processing power, coupled with the decision to use Silverlight, which general requires more CPU and more RAM than usual thanks to it's visual engine. That application has some genius performance enhancements inside it, enhancements that work wonders on my applications - but thanks to the complexity of Facebook feeds even with all that great work, the phones still have trouble with it. Even if they wanted to add chat to the application, it would probably be out of the question simply due to performance.

greenwizard88 said,
And if you don't game all day, there's no reason TO have a dual core CPU. I have yet to find an app that's CPU bound, and not just poorly written.

Like he said. Power savings. FET switching losses scale as ~fCV^2 (That's frequency, capacitance, voltage squared. That last one is the important bit). If you can lower voltage and frequency, but have two cores running at the same time, which obviously doubles capacitance, you still save power.

~Johnny said,

As a Windows Phone developer, I can tell you a LOT of my application design is restricted by the processing power of phones. You keep having to continually reduce and reduce and over simplify pages to achieve a decent rate of fluid performance, which restricts what you can do and what you want to do. Even something as simple as adding a full page transition can double the fill rate on complex pages, which is insane. end up having to cut a lot of nice ideas just to keep performance up, with leads to a nice, though a little uninspired and sparse visual design.

I have had problems too, but I always just offloaded the processing to a seperate thread, and then updated the UI once the processing was done. It's not "fast", but it doesn't feel "slow", which is the goal.

greenwizard88 said,
I have had problems too, but I always just offloaded the processing to a seperate thread, and then updated the UI once the processing was done. It's not "fast", but it doesn't feel "slow", which is the goal.

I try to do the same, but depending on how many visuals that need be created when you move back to the UI thread after doing your work, it can still freeze up a bit - as all the visuals need to be rasterised on the UI thread to be sent off to the compositor thread... which when you have listboxes with some complex templates inside a pivot item somewhere on a fairly busy page... well, it slows things down. You can still work around that somewhat by slowing things down even MORE, by only sending in listbox items one at a time and waiting 200-300 ms between them, but of course that's even more code and even slower... you just keep having to work around the constant limitations of the system caused by the lack of power on the hardware side, and resource intensiveness of Silverlight. Not even sure why visuals are rasterised on the UI thread... does not seem like a smart idea at all.

For me, it's not just the dual cores, but the overall hardware of the phone that matters. I love the Windows Phone interface, and have been a supporter since it's release. I've waited long for a high end phone that runs windows phone. In fact, I was just about to get my hands on an htc titan this month when I read the review of the galaxy note on neowin. The hardware of the galaxy note is leaps better than the one on the htc titan. Better processing speed, expandable memory, ram, screen quality, size, spen and last but not least, camera quality. What's more? They both cost almost exactly the same. Let's not forget the added benefit of all the apps in the marketplace. I can finally play my psx games on the go with the emulator app and send and receive files via bluetooth transfer. Now why should i spend that much cash on sub-par hardware when I can spend the SAME amount of cash and get a MONSTER? Why should I sacrifice so much just for the sake of the OS? Sure I know the Windows interface and smoothness is the best, but that alone can't sell me the phone. If the phone has sub-par hardware, IT SHOULD COST LESS.

What a pure piece of bull****tt!!!

Raw numbers show that dual core phone perform much much faster than single core phones and thats just that! USING dual code phones in person reveals that not only games will benefit but every single app which starts faster and does everything faster!

get back in the game Microsoft a stop the excuses of being behind everyone else!

get your act together before its really too late!

Multitasking talk is for dummies! every single phone out there today and years ago relies heavily on multitasking OS to work, multitasking is not seeing 5 apps open in the task-bar, multitasking is how an OS really does stuff behind the scenes!!! in a phone there is not room for 2 apps at the same time on the screen! get over it!. Even better a game running in the background eating your battery while you are writing an sms is a pointless thing! Some
mobile OSs are smart enough to handle that the right way!

parisp said,
but every single app which starts faster and does everything faster!

This already happens now with new APIs for Mango... software optimizations provide good performance even on "older" hardware. If google can't do it, this doesn't mean that it can't be done by others.

fenderMarky said,

This already happens now with new APIs for Mango... software optimizations provide good performance even on "older" hardware. If google can't do it, this doesn't mean that it can't be done by others.

google is not a good example of doing well in performance. the samsung galaxy s II with a dual core processor at 1.2Ghz performs 1/2 speed and even less on how well the iPhone 4S performs with a 800Ghz dual core processor!

software optimization can bring a lot to the table! that does not mean that dual core processor wont bring performance gains! In the Case of Microsoft it apears that i wont bring any real performance benefits since the software is not ready yet to take advantage of that! its not a matter of dual core not useful for phone its a matter of the software being ready to support it and MS which is late to the smartphone party is not ready in that front yet!

do you think that 3 years from now there will be any new MS smartphones not having dual or quad core processors? even the low end smartphones will!!!

parisp said,
do you think that 3 years from now there will be any new MS smartphones not having dual or quad core processors? even the low end smartphones will!!!

Yes, the same people clinging on to their launch devices that are charging on their WinXP machines, citing they don't like how windows 9 looks.

parisp said,

google is not a good example of doing well in performance. the samsung galaxy s II with a dual core processor at 1.2Ghz performs 1/2 speed and even less on how well the iPhone 4S performs with a 800Ghz dual core processor!


Please, both CPU aren't using the same architecture, it's like comparing 3.0+Ghz processor of Intel VS 2.0Ghz AMD processor and saying that the Intel is faster because 3 > 2, this is wrong.

yowan said,
Fanboys seem to forget that WP doesn't have real multitasking unlike Android so obviously it doesn't require multiple cores.

Android has multitasking?
Hmmm...

yowan said,
Fanboys seem to forget that WP doesn't have real multitasking unlike Android so obviously it doesn't require multiple cores.

This is a terrible argument. Android's multitasking has been a mess that each release of Android has been trying to tame. Allowing "anything goes" for background apps has proven to be a wonderful way of killing battery life and eating resources.

If Windows Mobile does multitasking like iOS, then I'd easily consider it superior to Android. Same end result (things can run in the background), but with better battery life and less micromanagement of the system (Task Managers / Killers for Android are VERY popular downloads - I *wonder* why). The Mango/iOS way has been described as "The Right Approach".

These aren't computers plugged into a wall, they are portable devices with limited battery life. "True" multitasking, as it has been described for Android, can be a really bad thing.

Xenomorph said,

This is a terrible argument. Android's multitasking has been a mess that each release of Android has been trying to tame. Allowing "anything goes" for background apps has proven to be a wonderful way of killing battery life and eating resources.

If Windows Mobile does multitasking like iOS, then I'd easily consider it superior to Android. Same end result (things can run in the background), but with better battery life and less micromanagement of the system (Task Managers / Killers for Android are VERY popular downloads - I *wonder* why). The Mango/iOS way has been described as "The Right Approach".

These aren't computers plugged into a wall, they are portable devices with limited battery life. "True" multitasking, as it has been described for Android, can be a really bad thing.

For the sake of multi-tasking, dual core chips are needed. Period. You simply cannot deny this fact. Just think of the improvements we had when we switched from the traditional single-core architectures on traditional PCs to the first dual core chips (e.g. Athlon 64 X2). While the frequency was roughly the same, the increase in speed / responsiveness was definitely there.

Here we are looking at something a little bit different however. We have true multi-task OSs (Android) vs ineherently single-task oriented OSs (iOS, WP7). In Mango, for example, when you put an app in "background mode" you can only occupy few MBs or RAM and use the CPU for as little as few seconds in a 2 minutes time frame. That's not concurrent multi-tasking, that's interleaving processes!

By recognizing this FACT, it's easy to understand why you want multi-core chips with Android and why you can simply live without them with WP7. Heck, from a performance point of view, it should be even better to have a FAST single core CPU than a slower multi-core CPU in WP7!

Eraser85 said,
For the sake of multi-tasking, dual core chips are needed. Period.

Mango has multitasking. Symbian has multitasking, iOS has it.
None of which minus 4S have dual core.

You are wrong. Period

Eraser85 said,
For the sake of multi-tasking, dual core chips are needed. Period. You simply cannot deny this fact. Just think of the improvements we had when we switched from the traditional single-core architectures on traditional PCs to the first dual core chips (e.g. Athlon 64 X2). While the frequency was roughly the same, the increase in speed / responsiveness was definitely there.

Here we are looking at something a little bit different however. We have true multi-task OSs (Android) vs ineherently single-task oriented OSs (iOS, WP7). In Mango, for example, when you put an app in "background mode" you can only occupy few MBs or RAM and use the CPU for as little as few seconds in a 2 minutes time frame. That's not concurrent multi-tasking, that's interleaving processes!

By recognizing this FACT, it's easy to understand why you want multi-core chips with Android and why you can simply live without them with WP7. Heck, from a performance point of view, it should be even better to have a FAST single core CPU than a slower multi-core CPU in WP7!

Every multitasking OS in the world probably does interleaved processing - that's simply how CPU scheduling works

But dual cores would be helpful for even WP7 - foreground tasks take up one CPU, and background tasks ans all the phone processes and management happen on the other. Simple solution that helps increase responsiveness.

A lot of apps on Windows Phone show evident signs of speed, performance and smoothness issues. Certainly the lack of raw speed is less noticeable due to perceived performance (due to animations), but certainly all the apps I've tried that have counterparts on other ITOS'ss start up and navigate faster.

There's also a lot of apps with jerky, though smooth scrolling (hello Facebook! - though that's also partly able to have a quick software fix, it wouldn't be a problem if we had faster processing), a lot of apps skipping animations, a lot of apps that freeze for a second or three whilst they load and parse new data... Which could be solved with dual cores!

Granted we don't need them right now, and the software optimizations Microsoft are making and will make in the long run are far more important than just shoving dual cores in there asap. It's also more closely modelled after iPhone than you think, especially it's application and multitasking models.

Though it is worth noting that the better GPU's only really come with the newer, multicore SOC's, so one will require the other! We'll still probably never see the graphics iPhone are producing though if we're stuck with what we have with XNA right now.

~Johnny said,
......

Sounds like a solution from the school of automotive engineering of 80 years ago, we can't build it better, so let's throw more horses under the hood.

I'd rather they learn to do it right, so when the additional horsepower is added, the true benefit is realized.

dotf said,

Sounds like a solution from the school of automotive engineering of 80 years ago, we can't build it better, so let's throw more horses under the hood.

I'd rather they learn to do it right, so when the additional horsepower is added, the true benefit is realized.

Microsoft have done great things to push the bounds of what Windows Phone can do with their current hardware - application performance in many cases have seen great improvements in Mango just through software. But now they're pushing the bounds. There comes a point where incremental software gains just can't match upto simply giving us more hardware - and that time is here. Obviously we don't need it right this second, but there is an evident need for it in the next update - which we know is coming anyway.

~Johnny said,

Microsoft have done great things to push the bounds of what Windows Phone can do with their current hardware - application performance in many cases have seen great improvements in Mango just through software. But now they're pushing the bounds. There comes a point where incremental software gains just can't match upto simply giving us more hardware - and that time is here. Obviously we don't need it right this second, but there is an evident need for it in the next update - which we know is coming anyway.

An application like facebook should not be laggy at all, it's just down to bad app design and has nothing to do with cpu power.

Well said Bryon, regardless of Microsoft/Qualcom's advancements and strategic alignments to provide a superb, and 100% upgradeable across all hardware vendors will be ignored by the narrow minded types that do not understand the platform.
I thankyou for the article as it is a paradigm, that hey maybe Microsoft is making software better, and powerful, rather than just shoehorning a basic OS onto hardware it never really uses.
Single core with hardware acceleration for vid/browsing/apps at the OS layer, with controlled memory management.. makes a very sweet machine.

Should i say that my phone does not crash, does not need a reboot every day or two like other handsets ive owned. I've rebooted it twice in a year, for both the updates its had. Windows Phone is rock solid.

rxsoob said,
Well said Bryon, regardless of Microsoft/Qualcom's advancements and strategic alignments to provide a superb, and 100% upgradeable across all hardware vendors will be ignored by the narrow minded types that do not understand the platform.
I thankyou for the article as it is a paradigm, that hey maybe Microsoft is making software better, and powerful, rather than just shoehorning a basic OS onto hardware it never really uses.
Single core with hardware acceleration for vid/browsing/apps at the OS layer, with controlled memory management.. makes a very sweet machine.

Should i say that my phone does not crash, does not need a reboot every day or two like other handsets ive owned. I've rebooted it twice in a year, for both the updates its had. Windows Phone is rock solid.


Give me a single core phone (regardless of wp7, android, ios) that can do 1080p (recording or playing)...

One of the reasons dual core is the future. More performance is always welcome, even if not usable today. That means your device is somewhat more "future proof".

I really considered getting a wp7 this summer. But no dual core and "old" platform made me chose a dual core android device (which is laggy as hell compared to my old trustworthy hd2 running mango, sure, but it can do 1080p with its crappy lens. yeah i am a bit silly...).
Also, power efficiency is good with dual core these days, they do not consume more than their single core older brothers. My Sensation takes longer to be exhausted than my hd2.

I really think WP7 needs to have "top of the line" hardware to get the attention it deserves. Brilliant software cannot do everything by itself, evenmore because of the "windows mobile" legacy (people may be detracted by the "windows" tag, even if wp7 has nothing in common with windows mobile).

Adding great hardware to an already great software will only make it even better. There is no reason to not have dual core, and once there is, i will definitely get a wp7/8 phone (come on "apollo", you are needed here!).

Obi_Yoann said,
(come on "apollo", you are needed here!).

I heard people like you a few months ago say the same thing about Mango and Nokia. That those were going to be the game changers. Now it's Apollo? It's so hard keeping up with you people. I keep sounding like an idiot when I tell my friends that Mango is a game changer, then I have to change that to Nokia now to Apollo. Is Apollo the consensus now? I really want to know from some "smart" Windows Phone users. /s

Obi_Yoann said,

One of the reasons dual core is the future. More performance is always welcome, even if not usable today. That means your device is somewhat more ''future proof''

Dual core aint the future
Tegra 3. I am smelling quad core


Obi_Yoann said,

I really considered getting a wp7 this summer. But no dual core and "old" platform made me chose a dual core android device (which is laggy as hell compared to my old trustworthy hd2 running mango, sure, but it can do 1080p with its crappy lens. yeah i am a bit silly...).

U mad bro?
This is where the give and take thing comes into play.
Lower performance + 1080p = Android
Superior performance + 720p = Windows Phone.
You have to give something for something.
But don't worry, Apollo is coming. *me excited*


I really think WP7 needs to have "top of the line" hardware to get the attention it deserves. Brilliant software cannot do everything by itself, evenmore because of the "windows mobile" legacy (people may be detracted by the "windows" tag, even if wp7 has nothing in common with windows mobile).

Adding great hardware to an already great software will only make it even better. There is no reason to not have dual core, and once there is, i will definitely get a wp7/8 phone (come on "apollo", you are needed here!).

All Windows Phone need is marketing. Sure, top of the line hardwarre will certainly help but marketing should also be considered

Apollo FTW

UndergroundWire said,

I heard people like you a few months ago say the same thing about Mango and Nokia. That those were going to be the game changers. Now it's Apollo? It's so hard keeping up with you people. I keep sounding like an idiot when I tell my friends that Mango is a game changer, then I have to change that to Nokia now to Apollo. Is Apollo the consensus now? I really want to know from some "smart" Windows Phone users. /s

He is saying this because all you people whine about dual core phones.
Android needs it doesn't mean every other OS needs it.

Muhammad Farrukh said,

He is saying this because all you people whine about dual core phones.
Android needs it doesn't mean every other OS needs it.

As usual the fanboys are not understanding. Who said anything about the OS needing it? I'm saying the platform needs it to support better games. Do you see how the two statements are very much different?

Android doesn't need dual-core to function the OS by any means. However when you are talking about adding the Sense Framework on top of Android, that is a different story. Most people can't distinguish the two.

Pure Android runs very nice. But a lot of people like the pretty things that go with the Sense framework, TouchWiz, Blur, etc...

UndergroundWire said,

As usual the fanboys are not understanding. Who said anything about the OS needing it? I'm saying the platform needs it to support better games. Do you see how the two statements are very much different?

Android doesn't need dual-core to function the OS by any means. However when you are talking about adding the Sense Framework on top of Android, that is a different story. Most people can't distinguish the two.

Pure Android runs very nice. But a lot of people like the pretty things that go with the Sense framework, TouchWiz, Blur, etc...

And as usual haters are not understanding.
Which game, if I may ask, is not running smoothly on WP?
Name one and we'll agree.
I've played over 50-60 games on Windows Phone (some of which were crap. instantly deleted) and haven't seen a single one showing any signs of lagging or anything like it.

Android needs power. It is designed this way
Even at stock, I've seen, Nexus One and Nexus S perform sluggish, though it is waaaayy better than TouchWiz, Sense and MotoBlur

UndergroundWire said,

I heard people like you a few months ago say the same thing about Mango and Nokia. That those were going to be the game changers. Now it's Apollo? It's so hard keeping up with you people. I keep sounding like an idiot when I tell my friends that Mango is a game changer, then I have to change that to Nokia now to Apollo. Is Apollo the consensus now? I really want to know from some "smart" Windows Phone users. /s

Don't worry MS & Nokia are really a game changer. Nokia will make ultra-cheap phones without optional hardware like camera, wifi & HSPDA soon. So they will have the largest marketshare.

And 1080p? Huh? Most of the people don't give a rats ass. 720 is actually fine, 1080p is not gonna change video quality dramatically. So if you want premium quality video at home buy Canon EOS 7D.

UndergroundWire said,

I heard people like you a few months ago say the same thing about Mango and Nokia. That those were going to be the game changers. Now it's Apollo? It's so hard keeping up with you people. I keep sounding like an idiot when I tell my friends that Mango is a game changer, then I have to change that to Nokia now to Apollo. Is Apollo the consensus now? I really want to know from some "smart" Windows Phone users. /s

The problem is that the target keeps moving. The competition isn't sitting still

Muhammad Farrukh said,

And as usual haters are not understanding.
Which game, if I may ask, is not running smoothly on WP?
Name one and we'll agree.
I've played over 50-60 games on Windows Phone (some of which were crap. instantly deleted) and haven't seen a single one showing any signs of lagging or anything like it.

LOL, as usual, you are still not getting it. I'm talking about next generation games.

So you are telling me that Infinity Blade which runs really smooth on the iPhone 4S with its great graphics will come to a single-core Windows Phone? HIGHLY DOUBT IT.

tuneslover said,

Don't worry MS & Nokia are really a game changer. Nokia will make ultra-cheap phones without optional hardware like camera, wifi & HSPDA soon. So they will have the largest marketshare.

And 1080p? Huh? Most of the people don't give a rats ass. 720 is actually fine, 1080p is not gonna change video quality dramatically. So if you want premium quality video at home buy Canon EOS 7D.

Actually you know what they say, the best camera is the one you carry with you. Besides professional photographers, most of us carry our phones with us. I don't know about you, but I like that I am always carrying a 1080p video recorder.

Shadrack said,
The problem is that the target keeps moving. The competition isn't sitting still

EXACTLY! Somebody is getting what I am saying. Windows Phone is constantly playing catchup to the competition. So the Windows Phone Fan base will always say the next update will be a game changer. But by the time the next update rolls the competition already has something better.

UndergroundWire said,

So you are telling me that Infinity Blade which runs really smooth on the iPhone 4S with its great graphics will come to a single-core Windows Phone? HIGHLY DOUBT IT.


We'll see when it comes to Windows Phone.

And you are telling me that all of the users will be playing INFINITY BLADE?

UndergroundWire said,

Actually you know what they say, the best camera is the one you carry with you. Besides professional photographers, most of us carry our phones with us. I don't know about you, but I like that I am always carrying a 1080p video recorder.

EXACTLY! Somebody is getting what I am saying. Windows Phone is constantly playing catchup to the competition. So the Windows Phone Fan base will always say the next update will be a game changer. But by the time the next update rolls the competition already has something better.

recording 720p vs 1080p on a cell phone is such a stupid reason to choose one over the other.. The videos are always shaky as hell with the worst lighting.. its the standard problem of people getting spec obsessed .. I would rather have the one with the best software that can reduce shakiness..

have fun recording your bluray movies with your android phone.. Ill stick with my 720p phone thats cheaper

Lachlan said,

recording 720p vs 1080p on a cell phone is such a stupid reason to choose one over the other.. The videos are always shaky as hell with the worst lighting.. its the standard problem of people getting spec obsessed .. I would rather have the one with the best software that can reduce shakiness..

have fun recording your bluray movies with your android phone.. Ill stick with my 720p phone thats cheaper

Who says you can't have both? Good software and 1080P. Don't limit your way of thinking. That just silly.

Muhammad Farrukh said,


We'll see when it comes to Windows Phone.

And you are telling me that all of the users will be playing INFINITY BLADE?

No but they will be playing games that have a gaming engine (or better) used on Infinity Blade. Mobile gaming is only going up beating the PSPs and Nintendo DS's.

UndergroundWire said,

No but they will be playing games that have a gaming engine (or better) used on Infinity Blade. Mobile gaming is only going up beating the PSPs and Nintendo DS's.

When it'll get there, Windows Phone will too.

UndergroundWire said,

Cool, please inform me when it's done. It looks like it needs multi-core to do that.

It'll get it when Apollo is here. Though that might also not need multi core but thats pretty imminent, to me.ends.
Hmm... I would say before the world (december 2012)

The technical reasons are all well and good, but joe public isn't going to read this article. And joe public is going to walk into a phone shop, see two smart phones, one with a 'dual core' processor and one without,and think 'oh. my new laptop has one of those dual cores and that seems to be faster... that's got to be the better phone'. It's the perception of speed, and not the reality of the speed, that will let down Windows Phones until they bring their specs up to match their competitors.

mattm591 said,
The technical reasons are all well and good, but joe public isn't going to read this article. And joe public is going to walk into a phone shop, see two smart phones, one with a 'dual core' processor and one without,and think 'oh. my new laptop has one of those dual cores and that seems to be faster... that's got to be the better phone'. It's the perception of speed, and not the reality of the speed, that will let down Windows Phones until they bring their specs up to match their competitors.

I agree, absolutely.
There are people who even dont know what the phone is or what is the software inside it. They just go there and ask for the best phone there is and this is where the problem is.
While I agree that giving dual core phones will certainly help cramp up the sales, all it will take is good marketing.
See iPhone only got a dual core CPU recently but it is one of the most or should I say THE most popular smartphone out there.
The thing is sophistication, maturity, industrial design and marketing.
While the former three are there in Windows Phone, there is lack of marketing which is the main reason for not so good sales

mattm591 said,
The technical reasons are all well and good, but joe public isn't going to read this article. And joe public is going to walk into a phone shop, see two smart phones, one with a 'dual core' processor and one without,and think 'oh. my new laptop has one of those dual cores and that seems to be faster... that's got to be the better phone'. It's the perception of speed, and not the reality of the speed, that will let down Windows Phones until they bring their specs up to match their competitors.


NAILED IT !!!

mattm591 said,
The technical reasons are all well and good, but joe public isn't going to read this article. And joe public is going to walk into a phone shop, see two smart phones, one with a 'dual core' processor and one without,and think 'oh. my new laptop has one of those dual cores and that seems to be faster... that's got to be the better phone'. It's the perception of speed, and not the reality of the speed, that will let down Windows Phones until they bring their specs up to match their competitors.

Probably also why Apple doesn't list specs other than storage. People may not know what the specs mean but they understand that "this phone has 2x of whatever it is that phone has."

mattm591 said,
The technical reasons are all well and good, but joe public isn't going to read this article.

Joe Public is going to pick the cool phone. Only people who care about "technical reasons" are carrying on about dual core

mattm591 said,
The technical reasons are all well and good, but joe public isn't going to read this article. And joe public is going to walk into a phone shop, see two smart phones, one with a 'dual core' processor and one without,and think 'oh. my new laptop has one of those dual cores and that seems to be faster... that's got to be the better phone'. It's the perception of speed, and not the reality of the speed, that will let down Windows Phones until they bring their specs up to match their competitors.

True, but if the sales people have a clue, or Joe user actually compares the speed of a WP7 with the highest end Android dual-core phone/tablet, and finds the WP7 is faster, they might go, why...

mattm591 said,
The technical reasons are all well and good, but joe public isn't going to read this article. And joe public is going to walk into a phone shop, see two smart phones, one with a 'dual core' processor and one without,and think 'oh. my new laptop has one of those dual cores and that seems to be faster... that's got to be the better phone'. It's the perception of speed, and not the reality of the speed, that will let down Windows Phones until they bring their specs up to match their competitors.

Yeah but after a week he'll realize his phone runs like crap and be confused about the whole situation.

- Can't have decent mobile games that you can compare to iOS.

As usual Microsoft will need to play catchup to everyone else in the mobile space. No surprise.

UndergroundWire said,
- Can't have decent mobile games that you can compare to iOS.

As usual Microsoft will need to play catchup to everyone else in the mobile space. No surprise.


It's weird how iOS has a thicker game vendor support, whilst Microsoft has the better online network.

Really, I wish Apple beefed up GameCenter.
GameCenter is fricking underfeatured...

No messaging, really? Come on!
They should integrate iMessage into GameCenter.
(So you have your history in one place again)

Also I don't like the network fragmentation...
OpenFeint, Plus+, GameCenter...

GS:mac

UndergroundWire said,
- Can't have decent mobile games that you can compare to iOS.

As usual Microsoft will need to play catchup to everyone else in the mobile space. No surprise.

Still nothing to do with dual-core as up until the iPhone 4S all iOS games for the iPhone were aimed at single cores.

UndergroundWire said,
- Can't have decent mobile games that you can compare to iOS.

As usual Microsoft will need to play catchup to everyone else in the mobile space. No surprise.

Wow, you really don't have any understanding beyond being a fanboi...

WP7 essentially is already using two processing units, as like Vista/Win7 a lot of processing is shoved through the GPU, not only graphical operations, but GP assisted functions like imagine encoding/decoding, fonts rendering, and OpenCL/DirectCompute like functionality.

So When iOS catches up to WP7 to use the GPU to offset processing from the CPU for general operations, then Apple will have caught up to Microsoft.

(The opposite of your constructed reality, as OS X itself doesn't even have the functionality as WP7, let iOS.)

thenetavenger said,

Wow, you really don't have any understanding beyond being a fanboi...

WP7 essentially is already using two processing units, as like Vista/Win7 a lot of processing is shoved through the GPU, not only graphical operations, but GP assisted functions like imagine encoding/decoding, fonts rendering, and OpenCL/DirectCompute like functionality.

So When iOS catches up to WP7 to use the GPU to offset processing from the CPU for general operations, then Apple will have caught up to Microsoft.

(The opposite of your constructed reality, as OS X itself doesn't even have the functionality as WP7, let iOS.)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/1...-800mhz-show-major-gpu-upg/

So why does Microsoft not support the Unity 3D engine or the Unreal engine if it's "so far advanced"? Microsoft NEEDS TO PLAY CATCHUP.

http://wmpoweruser.com/develop...evelopment-kit-or-unity-3d/

Grand Theft Auto III is coming only to the iPhone 4S and High-End Android device that utilizes dual-core. If Windows Phone's are so better with the GPU why isn't that game coming to Windows Phone?

With all the resources that Microsoft have, they are supporting dual-core technology well into 2012. A technology that has been available since early this year.

http://www.bench3.com/2011/11/...ware-for-windows-phone.html

Again, you can live in your closed off world which maybe perfect for you but in the real world, Windows Phone falls behind on several areas that will hurt it in the end.

Next time you should cite what you have to say. Because there is no validity to what you are saying.

Good day Microsoft Fanboi!

Also, I'm not going to tell naive people like you again. Because my opinions differ from yours, doesn't mean I am a fanboi. I think you know that already but have nothing better to say as USUAL.

Well as much as I do agree with you. There is no possibility now to record Video in 1080P unless you have a dual core processor and this is the only drawback for me on Windows Phone devices.

naraby said,
Well as much as I do agree with you. There is no possibility now to record Video in 1080P unless you have a dual core processor and this is the only drawback for me on Windows Phone devices.

That's why you will get Windows Phone Apollo with new devices soon.

naraby said,
Well as much as I do agree with you. There is no possibility now to record Video in 1080P unless you have a dual core processor and this is the only drawback for me on Windows Phone devices.

No...

Recording 1080 is going to be dependent on several things, dual-core not being one of them.

Actually with GPU assisted encoding, the CPU becomes fairly irrelevant.

All this talk of Dual-core, but when looking at WP7 vs Android, WP7 is using two GPU all the time, so it has essentially been dual core even with one CPU.

If Android utilized the GPU as a GP-GPU, then it wouldn't have the need for dual-core CPUs right now either.

WP7 does use the GPU for more than gaming, as the UI rendering, and other GPU assisted processing happens on the device, much like Vista/Win7's WDM/WDDM driver model works where GDI+, Fonts, Image encoding/decoding, etc.

The 1080 video recording need two CPUs is quite a myth, and who or what told you this was highly mistaken. I can show you sub $100 1080p video cameras at a discount store with one simple processor that work very well.

Muhammad Farrukh said,

Read this you dual core obsessed people. Read this

Like so many other aspects of computer system, developers go for the lowest common denomination, arguing that we shouldn't put in dual-core tech means that the lowest common denominator never gets higher.

Sure, people shouldn't boo a single-core CPU as being outdated, yet. But there's no reason for a direct opposite either.

FISKER_Q said,

Like so many other aspects of computer system, developers go for the lowest common denomination, arguing that we shouldn't put in dual-core tech means that the lowest common denominator never gets higher.

Sure, people shouldn't boo a single-core CPU as being outdated, yet. But there's no reason for a direct opposite either.

They'll be here. Apollo is coming

Muhammad Farrukh said,

Read this you dual core obsessed people. Read this

Im one of those, simply because im used to android/ios devices, but i feel like WP7 is faster than both

Beyond Godlike said,

Im one of those, simply because im used to android/ios devices, but i feel like WP7 is faster than both


I am not saying its a bad thing at all. Just the time isn't right

Muhammad Farrukh said,

Read this you dual core obsessed people. Read this

Excuse me, I'm a quad core person, or should I say penta core... Tegra 3 anyone?

mantequillas said,

Excuse me, I'm a quad core person, or should I say penta core... Tegra 3 anyone?


Thats why I don't like dual coes.
Quad, Penta and Single FTW

Muhammad Farrukh said,
They'll be here. Apollo is coming

When the timing is right, when the architecture is better, when the software can support it and realize the most, instead of wasting it.

FISKER_Q said,
arguing that we shouldn't put in dual-core tech means that the lowest common denominator never gets higher.

No, the lowest common denominator gets updated in a scheduled and orderly fashion, like OS updates. MS can choose to approach the LCD with a sense of structure, or they can leave it to be fragmented for no good reason like Android. Don't you want the developer target to be consistent across phones?